Figure Skating

[ShellsandCheese]

22 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

If Kamila goes to another coach she’s not going to have performance enhancing drugs. She isn’t going to be the skater she is. I keep reading that it’s such a shame because she didn’t need them. We don’t know that. We’ve probably only seen her when she’s been taking performance enhancing drugs. All of her jumps, her clean edges, and all of her success are not indicative of what kind of skater she really is without drugs.

I know I’m in the minority on this because I never want to see her skate again.

I disagree. The drugs she were taking help with endurance and stamina, most likely so that she could overtrain.

At the end of the day she has real skill and talent as a skater. If she had a decent coach, a proper diet and training schedule - she would if anything probably be a better more consistent skater and increase her longevity. 

Of all of Eteri’s current girls, she actually has the best chance because she had another coach for a long time and has good fundamentals and technique for the most part. Also, Eteri ain’t going nowhere, she has now coached the last two Gold and Silver Olympic medalists….

Edited February 17, 2022 by ShellsandCheese

[choclatechip45]

I blame Kamila's parents. It still amazes me how many people do not blame the parents in the Nassar scandal because of John Manly. 

[ChicksDigScars]

1 hour ago, DawnDavenport said:

Like Nicole Kidman's character in To Die For! 

As Season of the Witch plays...

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by ChicksDigScars

[NUguy514]

I woke and saw the Apple notification on my phone, and my first thought was, "She was ordered to tank."  I didn't watch, and I'm not going to watch (in fact, I feel that much more secure in my decision not to watch FS anymore), so I'm 100% speculating.  However, I would put absolutely nothing past Russia.  Better to have a medal ceremony with a doping Russian who hasn't been caught yet, doesn't really matter which one since they're all interchangeable – it's just simpler that way – and the "problem" child can be the sacrificial lamb.  Or Kamila just crumbled under the weight of the world.  No matter what, this is all disgusting.

I still want that team medal stripped.

Sasha, girl, with your lack of fucking everything but jumps, be happy that your doping ass hasn't been caught, take your silver medal, and get the fuck gone.

Edited February 18, 2022 by NUguy514

[healthnut]

I’m so ready for pairs tomorrow. I’m just tired of all this drama from the ladies.

[kittykat]

Me waking up: hmm I wonder what happened.  Ok boardies give me some news!

Me now:

[Minneapple]

3 minutes ago, healthnut said:

I’m just tired of all this drama from the ladies.

Meanwhile, over at NBC: How can we milk this ladies' drama even MORE?

 

[Snow Apple]

If this is the last Olympics for all 3 girls since Russia girls are usually one and done in these current (sad) times, I hope they all get therapy, and go eat and drink whatever their hearts desire.

I didn't watch live because I forgot all about it, but might watch all the other girls, especially Kaori Sakamoto on NBC tonight. 

[ShellsandCheese]

7 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

If this is the last Olympics for all 3 girls since Russia girls are usually one and done in these current (sad) times, I hope they all get therapy, and go eat and drink whatever their hearts desire.

I didn't watch live because I forgot all about it, but might watch all the other girls, especially Kaori Sakamoto on NBC tonight. 

I legit think Kamila will still around, if she gets away from Eteri. Also, perhaps NBC should give the ROC a gold medal. This drama has people interested in and talking about not only figure skating but the Olympics. 

[merylinkid]

I hope they all emigrate with their families.   this is such a mess.

While Kamila is somewhat responsible, I am not so sure how much free will she had.   Sure Tara Lipinski had the list and watched it closely even called the hotline.   But this was in the US where 15 years feel safe telling someone to no.   In Russia, its a whole other story.   

That's why I want them all to get out.   Be safe.  Have some say in what happens to their bodies.

[Jeddah]

3 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Sure Tara Lipinski had the list and watched it closely even called the hotline.   But this was in the US where 15 years feel safe telling someone to no. 

Based on who her coach was, I don’t think that’s true. Maybe not Tara, but her coach definitely coached skaters who did not feel safe around him. Doping wasn’t the problem, but there are plenty of truly terrible coaches in the US.

[Lady Whistleup]

14 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Based on who her coach was, I don’t think that’s true. Maybe not Tara, but her coach definitely coached skaters who did not feel safe around him. Doping wasn’t the problem, but there are plenty of truly terrible coaches in the US.

Yes richard callaghan was a sexual predator. 

Tara's technique also did not survive puberty. Her hips were shot by the time she was 16. 

Another coach with questionable methods is Frank Carroll. Have heard of a lot of stories of body shaming and disordered eating among his students.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[ombelico]

This is now a Kaori Sakamoto stan account.

Also, I'm outraged at the PCS scores for Trusova (70.97) and Valieva (70.62) in comparison to Higuchi (69.26). Utter bullshit.

If one of the ROC women had to win then I suppose I'm glad it was Shcherbakova since she at least has a balance of technical and artistic content, and seems like a nice person. I also felt bad for her that she was left all alone after winning - perhaps she and Zagitova can commiserate about that. That said, I think all 3 ROC women have been on something at one time or another given the system at Eteri's rink. Kaori is my Olympic gold medalist.

[Frost]

I'd say Kamila was hurt much more by having to skate under such international scrutiny and pressure than she would have if she'd been pulled from the Olympics entirely.  She'll be 19 for the next quad and if she has a good and honest coach she could have been poised for greatness.  Even if her jumps were downgraded, she is an incredibly artistic and captivating skater.  At this point, her reputation is trashed and she's off the podium anyway.

I admit I'm skeptical about the other 2 ROC skaters.   I'm assuming they were just better cheaters.

[Lady Whistleup]

An irony ... Eteri's obsession with limiting water intake might have made doping easier to detect.

Water flushes out most medicines more quickly. 

[irisheyes]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

Didn’t realize the FS happened this morning, so now I’m kind of dreading/dying to see this shitshow tonight (assuming NBC deigns to air it all in its horrifying glory, lol).

Oh, you KNOW NBC will milk this for every ounce of drama they can squeeze out of it. They’ll promote it, show it, then have Tara and Johnny talk about it. It’s like Tonya and Nancy all over again (but without the lead pipe).

[blackwing]

11 minutes ago, Frost said:

I'd say Kamila was hurt much more by having to skate under such international scrutiny and pressure than she would have if she'd been pulled from the Olympics entirely.  She'll be 19 for the next quad and if she has a good and honest coach she could have been poised for greatness.  Even if her jumps were downgraded, she is an incredibly artistic and captivating skater.  At this point, her reputation is trashed and she's off the podium anyway.

I admit I'm skeptical about the other 2 ROC skaters.   I'm assuming they were just better cheaters.

I agree... she could return in 4 years but her reputation is trashed.  Even if the WADA or whoever finds in her favour (which I think is more of a distinct possibility now that she splatted in the ladies singles and didn't medal), her reputation will forever be tarnished.  People aren't going to believe the report and will assume that "Russia was being Russia".

It's really too bad, because she did seem to have the complete package.  Her athleticism is incredible.  I really hate when skaters who cannot fully do a Bielmann try to do it anyways and it turns into this ugly, angled spin that I call an Ugly Bielmann.  It seems some men do Ugly Bielmanns now too.  But she not only could do the spin, but she took it even further, she extended her leg all the way up and both hands gripped her leg.  It was really something.

I too am skeptical about the other Russian skaters as well.  Hardly anyone can do quads, and there are three from the same coach all at the same time who can do them?  Mmmmhmmm.

[twoods]

I started watching from Mariah to Trusova and Trusova was by far the ugliest skater out there- she had no artistry. Higuchi was absolutely gorgeous and then I had to see that. Her jumps were great but IMO Anna is clearly the better skater and am glad she won the gold. I feel bad that she was left to celebrate alone because of all the drama with her fellow Russian women.

Now watching Sakamoto. Absolutely lovely. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by twoods

[Good Queen Jane]

I never understood why, but the Nancy/Tonya incident followed by Oksana Baiul winning the OG  made interest in figure skating soar. There were all kinds of televised professional skating competitions (remember Ice Wars?) and skating shows. I hate to say this but maybe a good scandal will increase TV viewership enough that NBC will start showing more skating during non-Olympics years and the pro skaters will have more opportunities to continue to compete outside of the ISU sanctioned events. 

[izabella]

Now that I've seen the free skate, I feel bad for all of them.   These girls probably started skating when they were tiny tots, and their lives have never been their own ever since.  I blame ALL the adults involved.  This is not competition.  It's child abuse.

[Minneapple]

8 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I never understood why, but the Nancy/Tonya incident followed by Oksana Baiul winning the OG  made interest in figure skating soar. There were all kinds of televised professional skating competitions (remember Ice Wars?) and skating shows. I hate to say this but maybe a good scandal will increase TV viewership enough that NBC will start showing more skating during non-Olympics years and the pro skaters will have more opportunities to continue to compete outside of the ISU sanctioned events. 

The main difference between then and now is that back then the American women were actually good at skating, which was great for an American television audience. And Tonya and Nancy were household names. Most Americans couldn't begin to tell you who the American skaters in today's competition are. They maybe know who Nathan Chen is and that's about it.

[absnow54]

Oh man, watching Anna wonder around confused and alone post-OGM victory, only to get a brief hug from a put upon looking Eteri was the saddest thing I've seen in a long time. The ladies program was such a mess this year. 

[Snow Apple]

9 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

The main difference between then and now is that back then the American women were actually good at skating, which was great for an American television audience. And Tonya and Nancy were household names. Most Americans couldn't begin to tell you who the American skaters in today's competition are. They maybe know who Nathan Chen is and that's about it.

Back then, I even knew the skaters from other counties because they competed for years. Kurt Browning, Surya Bonaly, Katerina Witt, Midori Ito, Chen Lu, etc. I adored G+G. 

I haven't really followed since the Michelle Kwan era, and only watch skating if I happen to channel surf onto it. It just changed and I lost interest. 

Sad. Figure skating in the 80's and 90's were a big part of my life.

[Sarahsmile416]

2 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Oh man, watching Anna wonder around confused and alone post-OGM victory, only to get a brief hug from a put upon looking Eteri was the saddest thing I've seen in a long time. The ladies program was such a mess this year. 

Watching this 

I feel like I now understand why.  Sasha and Anna are not her prized skaters, she doesn’t give a damn about them…they are washed up in her mind.  Of course Anna can’t find Eteri - she is only fixated on Kamila.  

[blackwing]

38 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I never understood why, but the Nancy/Tonya incident followed by Oksana Baiul winning the OG  made interest in figure skating soar. There were all kinds of televised professional skating competitions (remember Ice Wars?) and skating shows. I hate to say this but maybe a good scandal will increase TV viewership enough that NBC will start showing more skating during non-Olympics years and the pro skaters will have more opportunities to continue to compete outside of the ISU sanctioned events. 

 

25 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

The main difference between then and now is that back then the American women were actually good at skating, which was great for an American television audience. And Tonya and Nancy were household names. Most Americans couldn't begin to tell you who the American skaters in today's competition are. They maybe know who Nathan Chen is and that's about it.

I agree, also, the main difference is that the scandal involved two Americans.  You had the rich proper pretty American princess (horseteeth aside) who got brutally attacked by the rough white trash one who was her main rival for the U.S. title.  It had all the makings of a salacious TV movie of the week, which it ended up becoming.  The fact that a feature film was made about this decades later really shows how long of a staying power this scandal has.  Even decades later, those of us who remember this incident instantly know what someone means when they talk about "doing a Tonya Harding" or mentions "whyyyyyyyyyyy... whyyyyyyyyy".  

I only casually tune in to figure skating every four years, but still remember Tonya and Nancy.  The image of Tonya in her magenta outfit skating to Jurassic Park and then stopping in tears and putting her skate on the ledge because her lace broke, Nancy in her sparkly white dress and her hair in a princess bun doing her signature spiral, Oksana Baiul with her bad 80s bangs doing her donut spin, "why is she putting on makeup, she's just going to cry it all off anyways", etc.  That was a scandal that has become part of American culture.

I don't think many people outside of skating fans will remember these three Russians for long.  I can't even remember which particular one won in 2018.  It won't be a lasting scandal because it confirmed something that has been long suspected, that Russia isn't above cheating.

[choclatechip45]

This is nice to see 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaFPA5mLNd7/

[Jess14]

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

 

I agree, also, the main difference is that the scandal involved two Americans.  You had the rich proper pretty American princess (horseteeth aside) who got brutally attacked by the rough white trash one who was her main rival for the U.S. title.  It had all the makings of a salacious TV movie of the week, which it ended up becoming.  The fact that a feature film was made about this decades later really shows how long of a staying power this scandal has.  Even decades later, those of us who remember this incident instantly know what someone means when they talk about "doing a Tonya Harding" or mentions "whyyyyyyyyyyy... whyyyyyyyyy".  

I only casually tune in to figure skating every four years, but still remember Tonya and Nancy.  The image of Tonya in her magenta outfit skating to Jurassic Park and then stopping in tears and putting her skate on the ledge because her lace broke, Nancy in her sparkly white dress and her hair in a princess bun doing her signature spiral, Oksana Baiul with her bad 80s bangs doing her donut spin, "why is she putting on makeup, she's just going to cry it all off anyways", etc.  That was a scandal that has become part of American culture.

I don't think many people outside of skating fans will remember these three Russians for long.  I can't even remember which particular one won in 2018.  It won't be a lasting scandal because it confirmed something that has been long suspected, that Russia isn't above cheating.

Agreed. I wouldn’t be surprised if NBC gets pretty good ratings, and I’m sure the network is thrilled with how things went (doping scandal, favorite falls apart, diva tantrum, awkward medal ceremony), but I expect that this will be forgotten fairly soon. Even with someone like Svetlana Khorkina, she was around for a long time, so even 4 year gymnastics fans could recognize her. These 3 Russians will be replaced by new ones soon. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, blackwing said:

 

I agree, also, the main difference is that the scandal involved two Americans.  You had the rich proper pretty American princess (horseteeth aside) who got brutally attacked by the rough white trash one who was her main rival for the U.S. title.  It had all the makings of a salacious TV movie of the week, which it ended up becoming.  The fact that a feature film was made about this decades later really shows how long of a staying power this scandal has.  Even decades later, those of us who remember this incident instantly know what someone means when they talk about "doing a Tonya Harding" or mentions "whyyyyyyyyyyy... whyyyyyyyyy".  

I only casually tune in to figure skating every four years, but still remember Tonya and Nancy.  The image of Tonya in her magenta outfit skating to Jurassic Park and then stopping in tears and putting her skate on the ledge because her lace broke, Nancy in her sparkly white dress and her hair in a princess bun doing her signature spiral, Oksana Baiul with her bad 80s bangs doing her donut spin, "why is she putting on makeup, she's just going to cry it all off anyways", etc.  That was a scandal that has become part of American culture.

I don't think many people outside of skating fans will remember these three Russians for long.  I can't even remember which particular one won in 2018.  It won't be a lasting scandal because it confirmed something that has been long suspected, that Russia isn't above cheating.

The funny thing is Nancy came from the same socio-economic class as Tonya.  Her family wasn't rich, but Nancy strived to "better" herself (or at least appear to) vs. Tonya who did not.  Tonya was white trash, knew she was white trash, and accepted it. She was not going to bow to pressure from judges to present herself in a more appealing manner.  She was not going to play their game.  Surya Bonaly did the same in her own way.  

[Minneapple]

1 minute ago, blackwing said:

"why is she putting on makeup, she's just going to cry it all off anyways", etc.

That always cracks me up.

Nancy should have won gold that year. Oksana and her like, one, shaky double-double combination and her pink poufy thing were way way overscored for Skating While Russian.

[Sarahsmile416]

2 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

Agreed. I wouldn’t be surprised if NBC gets pretty good ratings, and I’m sure the network is thrilled with how things went (doping scandal, favorite falls apart, diva tantrum, awkward medal ceremony), but I expect that this will be forgotten fairly soon. Even with someone like Svetlana Khorkina, she was around for a long time, so even 4 year gymnastics fans could recognize her. These 3 Russians will be replaced by new ones soon. 

It’s surprising that two of them haven’t already been replaced….

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

That always cracks me up.

Nancy should have won gold that year. Oksana and her like, one, shaky double-double combination and her pink poufy thing were way way overscored for Skating While Russian.

Oksana is Ukrainian and skated for Ukraine.

[Sarahsmile416]

5 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

This is nice to see 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaFPA5mLNd7/

She is a 15 year old in every way.  I love this! 🥰

[Hana Chan]

6 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

It’s surprising that two of them haven’t already been replaced….

Oh, I think that the writing was on the way that they were already on their way out the door. Sasha's FS was terrible and not something worthy of a gold medal performance. And this will probably be Anna's swan song as she's the gold medalist as a matter of chance. I'm sure that Eteri has a 13 year old able to do multiple quads that she can drag up for Worlds if need be.

[DawnDavenport]

40 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Oh man, watching Anna wonder around confused and alone post-OGM victory, only to get a brief hug from a put upon looking Eteri was the saddest thing I've seen in a long time. The ladies program was such a mess this year. 

Shades of Zamolodchikova after winning the Sydney floor final. Everyone ignored her because she beat "queen" Khorkina and she was left wandering around to celebrate on her own. It was very sad and uncomfortable to watch. Of course Khorkina acted like the selfish entitled bitch that she became after Atlanta.

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by DawnDavenport

[Sarahsmile416]

6 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Oh, I think that the writing was on the way that they were already on their way out the door. Sasha's FS was terrible and not something worthy of a gold medal performance. And this will probably be Anna's swan song as she's the gold medalist as a matter of chance. I'm sure that Eteri has a 13 year old able to do multiple quads that she can drag up for Worlds if need be.

Complete with performance enhancing drugs that she will give them and not have to worry about the consequences since they are “protected persons”

[ShellsandCheese]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

That always cracks me up.

Nancy should have won gold that year. Oksana and her like, one, shaky double-double combination and her pink poufy thing were way way overscored for Skating While Russian.

Oksana Bauil is from Ukraine, is Ukrainian, and skated for Ukraine. Ukraine is not the same as Russia; they are two different countries. She beat Nancy on a five-four split that came down mostly to geographical differences and preferences. She did not get any type of skating while Russian bonus because she isn’t Russian. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by ShellsandCheese

[Minneapple]

Whoops, I forgot Oksana was from Ukraine.

[twoods]

I always preferred Oksana’s skate to Nancy Kerrigan’s because it was absolutely stunning. 

[SeanC]

5 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

Every skater is capable of having a bad competition. We saw Nathan spend more time on his backside than on his skates during his SP in Peongchang. We saw Yuzuru have problems here. It is entirely possible that Kamila just had a bad night to miss so many elements.

But I just can't buy it. Not with the way she's been performing all year. I'm willing to put good money down on her being instructed to throw the competition to take the focus off of her pending doping tests and saving Eteri and Russia the embarrassment that is sure to follow.

Kamila has had multiple very bad free skates in the last twelve months -- the 2021 Russian Cup Final, and the test skates.  What happened here is far from unprecedented.

[Hana Chan]

I would hope that after the fiasco that this Olympics was that the ISU is going to take a good hard look at the sport as whole and try to find some way to salvage it, because at the rate we're going figure skating is going to die as a sport. Between the inconsistent judging where favorites are rewarded regardless of what happens on the ice, abusive coaches and the way the sport chews up teenage girls and spits them out before they're even 18, there is only so long this can go on before fans abandon the sport. We're seeing this in horse racing, and we saw it in artistic gymnastics. Now I think figure skating is going to have its moment of reckoning. 

This editorial about what we saw is very thought provoking, and well worth keeping in mind while we're passing judgement on what happened this morning.

https://sports.yahoo.com/olympic-figure-skater-kamila-valieva-was-failed-by-the-system-adults-170245056.html

 

[proserpina65]

22 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

The last several posters just typed everything I was going to about Sarah Hughes' victory. That was one of the best free skates I'd ever seen.

That 1992--2002 period was the absolute peak in the American dominance of ladies figure skating--winning the gold medal at 3 out of four Olympics and having TWO American women on the podium all of those times.

I think both she and Tara were helped by the fact that even though they were likely to win a medal, the pressure on them to win gold was nowhere near as intense as it was on poor Michelle Kwan.

 

As much as I continue to assert that Michelle was robbed in Nagano, there is no denying that Sarah absolutely deserved the gold in SLC.  That performance was just about perfect.

 

[redfish]

Quote

I legit think Kamila will still around, if she gets away from Eteri. Also, perhaps NBC should give the ROC a gold medal. This drama has people interested in and talking about not only figure skating but the Olympics. 

Doubt it. The problem is any skater that are coached under Eteri don't have any future. None of them make it to the next Olympics. It's one and done. There's a list of every student Eteri has had and none of them skated again. Before they're even 20 they're physically done. Her "training" is so intense with extreme dieting (restricting drinking water) and physical drills that their bodies have been prematurely ruined. One skater can't even turn her body to skate to the left.

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by redfish

[Rootbeer]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Not necessarily.  The combination of drugs she was using were to help her gain stamina while she was severely restricting food and possibly water. It's a vicious cycle with Eteri.  Calories are needed for energy, but she restricts her skaters' daily intake, so they need PEDs to make up for it.  Put Kamila on a real diet with enough calories and she would not need the PEDs.

Kamila, would, however, probably experience a growth spurt and her breasts and hips become more prominent which might also hinder her skating.  However, I agree that at least part of the reason the Russians were working on her strength and endurance was because they knew she was not getting proper nutrition in hopes of staving off the body changes of puberty and to keep her light to make jumping easier.

[emmawoodhouse]

In what world does Trusova deserve a 9 for skating skills?

 

[healthnut]

3 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

An irony ... Eteri's obsession with limiting water intake might have made doping easier to detect.

Water flushes out most medicines more quickly. 

Polina said in her podcast it has taken some Russian girls up to eight hours to provide enough urine for a drug test. 

[TexasGal]

Johnny on Trusova:  she really makes zero effort at the artistry; you have to have both in this sport. 

Really?  Does she?

[Good Queen Jane]

This article from Sports Illustrated pretty well sums up my feelings. The line that particularly resonates with me: "But anyone who watched Thursday’s child abuse, broadcast live, should feel sick."

[proserpina65]

6 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I don't know how old you are, but, as someone who remembers when school figures were part of the competition, I am not eager to see them come back. 

It's possible to judge whether or not a skater can do the basics well without bringing back school figures.  Limiting the number of/weight given to jumps in one way.

6 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

But I just can't buy it. Not with the way she's been performing all year. I'm willing to put good money down on her being instructed to throw the competition to take the focus off of her pending doping tests and saving Eteri and Russia the embarrassment that is sure to follow.

I think the pressure just got to her.

[Avaleigh]

7 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Oksana Bauil is from Ukraine, is Ukrainian, and skating for Ukraine. Ukraine is not the same as Russia; they are two different countries. She best Nancy on a five-four split that came down mostly to geographical differences and preferences. She did not get any type of skating while Russian bonus because she isn’t Russian. 

Oksana represented Ukraine and is Ukrainian. That being said, Oksana herself identified as Russian and said so in more than one interview. The most notable interview of course was the Oprah interview where she was explaining the DUI. She straight up told Oprah "I am Russian."

I bring this up because Oksana absolutely received a skating while being a former member of the USSR bonus. Yes, she represented Ukraine but she absolutely benefited from the judges who were part of the eastern bloc. There are many documentaries that get into this very subject including Meddling.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Avaleigh

[Jeddah]

I’m watching Olympic Ice, and Katarina Witt said she didn’t face the kind of pressure the Russian girls face! 
 

ETA: She also doesn’t seem to know anyone’s name! She keeps referring to “the Japanese girl,” “the Polish girl,” etc.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Jeddah