Believe - General Discussion

[millahnna]

Aw I'm sad.  I really liked this, schmaltzy cases of the week and all.  

[shapeshifter]

I'm sort of relieved it was canceled so I don't feel like I have to keep watching to find out if anything new happens.

[jhlipton]

What might have helped?

 

1) Keep Skouras in the background, and make his methods and motives much less obvious.  Make us question if Winter is really the good guy.

 

2) Have Tate buy into the "Bo has to help" a LOT quicker.  They got it right in "The Prodigy" -- too little too late.

 

It's a shame -- I like this show a lot more than Resurrection (which was renewed).

[jhlipton]

ottoDbusdriver:

[T]he DMZ employee didn't ...  notice that popups on her screen. That's pushing the bounds of BELIEVE-ability.

 

Bo grabbing off the printer was problematic, but the employee didn't see the pop-ups because Tate was keeping her attention off the screen.  If it was a shared printer, which it looked to be, it would be going off all the time, not just for that employee.  I'm willing to overlook a fair amount -- otherwise there would be very few shows I could watch.

[picklesprite]

Well, darn it. I liked this show a lot better than Resurection, too, and I really liked Tate, Winter, & Bo.

But. . .to me, none of the other characters had even a single degree of the warmth or relatability of those three. There was a feet-on-the-ground feeling about them, which was important to a show that existed mostly in thin air. Very thin. I kept delaying watching eps, and finally only did watch just to see them.

I don't see how they could have fixed it, because it was so flawed from the start. The Skouras business was cartoonish, the FBI business was boring, and the show never seemed to be heading anywhere, but only running away.

I'll miss Tate, Winter, & Bo, though. Sniff.

Edited May 11, 2014 by picklesprite

[7kstar]

Well I guess my Sunday nights just got free again.  Now only one show I watch and it isn't on NBC.  In fact I don't know if I do watch NBC at all...  I thought it was finally moving in a good direction, but I figure it most people don't want to watch just a feel good show anymore.

 

At least I'm not really upset about it being gone, I hadn't gotten attached since it hadn't made it past the first season.  So NBC...good luck on finding viewers.  You lost this one but then I guess that doesn't mean much now does it.  lol.

[Boundary]

Do all shows now need instant success in order to survive? Seinfeld started slow, NBC should know this. Maybe NBC misunderstood this show, they thought they were getting a mystery, causing shockwaves and chatter, with decent-to-huge ratings. But with a less pressurized time slot, and embracing the cheese and warmth, this show could've made it to 3 or 4 seasons, maybe beyond. A simpler, character driven - rather than plot and mystery driven - with less crappy FBI and crazy Skouras, might've done just fine.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Boundary

[jhlipton]

Airing this Sunday in the usual spot.  

[jhlipton]

Episode #10 is airing this Sunday in the usual spot.  I don't know if the last 2 episodes will air.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Technically, if Tate and Bo had stayed in New Jersey, Agent Farrell and her daughter would have got on the subway train like everyone else (including the bomber) and the bomb would have gone off on an empty platform after the train left.  The bomber obviously got out safely by taking the subway.  So what was the purpose of this episode other than an excuse for a get-to-know-you between Tate and Agent Farrell ?

 

Zoe -- if you know the gifted person across the table from you is going to wipe your mind, and you aren't tied to the chair, and there's no security in the room, you do have the option to beat the shit out of them ASAP instead of just sitting there.  Dumbass.

 

FYI: Cross-posted on TWOP

[Enigma X]

I thought Farrell told her daughter that was not their train.

[shapeshifter]

I thought Farrell told her daughter that was not their train.

Yes. And then there was a line from the news reporter explaining that when Ferrell pulled her gun on Tate, the people near the bomb ran away and were therefore saved. It would've been better, IMO, if they had a little flashback of that event as the news reporter described the theory of what happened.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I thought Farrell told her daughter that was not their train.

 

That's true, but then the whole nonsense about the daughter looking down the tracks gabbing about when the train would get there makes no sense.

If it was a platform used by multiple lines (which happens all the time in NYC), why even bother looking.

 

But in that case, Agent Farell and her daughter would be dead and still off the Tate case.  Win-win !!  

Why didn't Bo just TK the debris out of the way ?  Or think about turning the lights on sooner ?

 

The whole episode just seemed weirdly written.

[Boundary]

Bo seemed weak somehow (at least pertaining to lifting/moving heavy objects) and I don't know if that was explained. Perhaps that's why she needs practice. Maybe stress/anger make her powers stronger but I'd have thought a bomb going off, a girl seriously needing medical attention and being trapped underground were serious enough to cause stress. 

 

Skouras escapes without a scratch after shooting someone in front of the damned FBI, seriously? He's got friends "in high places". What about witnesses, lawyers and official reports, how do you wipe that away? A cover up this big doesn't need a one liner to make us forget about it. I hope Dani is playing him and Zoey will only pretend to have her memories wiped but this show doesn't do sleights of hand, does it? 

 

I did like how, as we've seen in other episodes, the people Bo save are being set up to help her in the future. We will never see it but it's like the writers maybe have a sense of some event that involves Bo and all the people she's helped come back to her aid somehow. In my mind, that could be a media shitstorm when Bo is outed, or something like that. But there's a vagueness about the exact reasons why people like Channing, Zoey and others in Winter's team are so dedicated to Bo. Sure, Tait is her father and Winter raised her, so their cases are clear enough but what exactly happened at Orchestra that made people so firm in their beliefs? Channing took a bullet for Winter because ultimately that was for Bo. Skouras is equally manic about finding and controlling her. No explanation has been given except that she's special, when she isn't, not really. There are other "special" people in this universe, Bo happens to be the most powerful one. Maybe she's special in the way she emotionally affects people, maybe ultimately that's her unique power.

[Hybiscus]

Do all shows now need instant success in order to survive? Seinfeld started slow, NBC should know this.

 

Yes, nowadays, new shows have to be a hit right away.  With results instantly available tv execs know immediately how the show is doing.  And they're so money-motivated, they're not willing to stick with a show that isn't producing a great profit.  Seinfeld began 25 years ago (I know!), before the age of the internet and the web, let alone instant gratifications like Twitter and such.  It was a simpler, slower, and quieter time.

[jhlipton]

The one thing I hated, detested and despised was the capture of the bomber.  Way to take away all of FBI lady's agency.  Once the bomber started to tussle with Tate, she should have whacked him upside the head.  But no.  Silly girly needs the big strong man to protect her.

 

Blech!

[shapeshifter]

During the confrontation with Skuros (sp? the guy from Twin Peaks), when he was claiming to have always had only their best interests at heart and was promising a pardon for Tate, I so wanted Tate to make Skuros admit that he had framed Tate for murder in the first place and got him put on death row.

They should've had better blocking in the scene where Bo comes out in the dress so we didn't see the weird straps in the back. She should've put the blazer on sooner.

[FAU]

 

During the confrontation with Skuros (sp? the guy from Twin Peaks), when he was claiming to have always had only their best interests at heart and was promising a pardon for Tate, I so wanted Tate to make Skuros admit that he had framed Tate for murder in the first place and got him put on death row.

 

Yeah, it's him, which makes it more disappointing considering his role on this show.

[alias1]

They're going to skip another week and then the finale.  I wonder if it will have a real finale.  Too bad.  I liked the actors.

[FAU]

They're going to skip another week and then the finale.  I wonder if it will have a real finale.  Too bad.  I liked the actors.

 

Probably not because it was cancelled, but they could've if they refilmed it.

[ottoDbusdriver]

The production values of this episode were really crappy -- the lightning in the scene at the heliport when Bo/Tate were leaving seemed to only illuminate specific sections of the heliport area (when actual lightning should illuminate the entire scene at the same time -- more shitty ideas).  When Zepeta cut off Tate's car, there was a car behind Tate's car that apparently disappeared and then Zepeta's car suddenly appeared to be far away from Tate's car despite cutting directly in front of it.  Would Zepeta really be flashing his lights at Tate in order to annoy him, instead of stealthily sneaking up beside him and then cutting him off ?

 

And that stupid thing with the mirror -- how did Skourras not notice that a giant mirror had suddenly appeared in the room ?

 

And Bo pulls 2 brand new powers out of nowhere (the mirror thing, the controlled lightning) -- how could she do something if she didn't know she could do it, let alone somehow accidentally do it ? Her powers seem to be coming out of a wheel of randomness designed by the writers.  Next week her new powers will be ....<spins wheel> ..... controlling TV remotes and salsa dancing.

[FAU]

 

And Bo pulls 2 brand new powers out of nowhere (the mirror thing, the controlled lightning) -- how could she do something if she didn't know she could do it, let alone somehow accidentally do it ? Her powers seem to be coming out of a wheel of randomness designed by the writers.  Next week her new powers will be ....<spins wheel> ..... controlling TV remotes and salsa dancing.

 

Her powers were never really fully defined unfortunately, so the writers made it vague enough to make up bs powers whenever convenient.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Her powers were never really fully defined unfortunately, so the writers made it vague enough to make up bs powers whenever convenient.

 

Bo seems to have acquired the suit from 'Greatest American Hero', but has also lost the manual. </snark>

[Boundary]

All of their powers seem random, they can hear people's thoughts but Bo seems to require a touch in order to get the visuals as well. 

What has been bothering me is Dani's yo yo charactirazation. She kept Zoe's secret, before betraying her; she seemed sympathetic to Bo's predicament, now she's not; etc. 

Why was Skouras blaming Winter for Nina's death? Based on that flashback, he's just equally culpable. Skouras seems incapable of admitting his own misdeeds.

[bros402]

And Bo pulls 2 brand new powers out of nowhere (the mirror thing, the controlled lightning) -- how could she do something if she didn't know she could do it, let alone somehow accidentally do it ? Her powers seem to be coming out of a wheel of randomness designed by the writers.  Next week her new powers will be ....<spins wheel> ..... controlling TV remotes and salsa dancing.

 

Perhaps the writer's think that Bo's TK powers might allow her to control lightning.

 

imo if they had established she had some form of earth based power, then it'd be easy to handwave her controlling lightning

 

But we know from past episodes that characters have had abilities such as memory removal & extraction along with telekinesis and shield generation (Like how Nina encapsulated the missile)

[FAU]

 

What has been bothering me is Dani's yo yo charactirazation. She kept Zoe's secret, before betraying her; she seemed sympathetic to Bo's predicament, now she's not; etc.

 

Her character just seems so inconsistent, it doesn't help that we only recently met the character a couple episodes ago so there's no proper build up for her character, especially since the promo suggests a face off between her and Bo.

 

 

Why was Skouras blaming Winter for Nina's death? Based on that flashback, he's just equally culpable. Skouras seems incapable of admitting his own misdeeds.

 

Exactly, he was just trying to pin all the blame on him.

[alias1]

 

When Zepeta cut off Tate's car, there was a car behind Tate's car that apparently disappeared and then Zepeta's car suddenly appeared to be far away from Tate's car despite cutting directly in front of it.

I noticed that, too, and I'm usually oblivious to things like that.  That's why I like reading the posts here.  You guys always see so much more than I do. 

[sjohnson]

I always preferred the helping stories to the chase arc. This was all chase so it was rather flat and unappealing. The way they left the Channing story hanging in air (well, literally speaking, waiting to hang in air in the chopper,) was pretty revealing. And if Bo and Tate did succeed in persuading Skouras someone else would take his place, and it wouldn't solve any problems for Tate (and ergo, Bo.)

 

I like the actors, and so I watch, but I think even the show knows, on some level, that this is just an excuse for FX. TV really has trouble competing with movies for FX. 

[Boundary]

If they make the characters compelling enough, the cheap FX doesn't bother me.

 

The chase storyline was always going to a part of the show since Tate was sprung from death row but it really failed to grab me too. I found the family bond, the stranger helping and Winter's team more interesting; I had little patience for the FBI chase and I really had no time for Skouras. The chase story could've easily been in the background (like the way police cars would make Tate turn around or force him to abandon whatever he was doing) and Skouras could've been a season 2 escalation of the stakes. 

 

But I liked the way this episode ended, Bo and Tate are tired of Winter and Skouras, who are both - in their own ways - manipulative. Of course Winter and his team have been helpful and his motives have seemed benign but being on the run must have taken its toll. If Skouras was not going back down, I had hoped Bo would take him down (curiously Dani also let him live) but at some point Bo had to make a point that she wants to be left alone with her dad. She won't, but at least she has a team of her own choosing to fight for now.

[Jordan27]

I saw the car disappear too, but that was a cliche seen so many times, but why do people stop when cars gets behind them and in front of them. Ram them, but in this one, there was enough room to try and manuever around them or back up. 

 

The show for me has only been about Bo and Tate.  I like their relationship, but everything else we've seen before.  Nothing really compelling, just stuff happening. 

 

And most of the audience agreed.  They watched the pilot and then tuned out. 

 

I could have told the producers of this show that it was dead after the second episode.  How come they don't see this?  And don't they watch great shows like Dexter, Walking Dead and Breaking Bad and see how great shows are written.

 

NBC seems like the warehouse for bad writing.

[bros402]

I saw the car disappear too, but that was a cliche seen so many times, but why do people stop when cars gets behind them and in front of them. Ram them, but in this one, there was enough room to try and manuever around them or back up. 

 

The show for me has only been about Bo and Tate.  I like their relationship, but everything else we've seen before.  Nothing really compelling, just stuff happening. 

 

And most of the audience agreed.  They watched the pilot and then tuned out. 

 

I could have told the producers of this show that it was dead after the second episode.  How come they don't see this?  And don't they watch great shows like Dexter, Walking Dead and Breaking Bad and see how great shows are written.

 

NBC seems like the warehouse for bad writing.

 

NBC has Hannibal, so they have that going for them.

 

And, really, Dexter for an example of good writing?

 

Maybe the early seasons. But all that sticks in my mind now is the latter seasons.

[DrLar]

I don't know where they bring this disease of the gifted out of nowhere, so basically Bo's mother died of that disease and not complications of the birth?

 

If so does Bo also has it?

[Jordan27]

NBC has Hannibal, so they have that going for them.

 

And, really, Dexter for an example of good writing?

 

Maybe the early seasons. But all that sticks in my mind now is the latter seasons.

Dexter is one of the greatest shows ever.  Nothing ever really like it.  The early seasons were better, but the later seasons still better than most things on TV today.

[Yeldarbe]

My DVR didn't catch this episode, but it doesn't seem like I missed very much. One episode left, right? I will make sure I get it recorded so I can at least see this thing through to the end.

[formerlyfreedom]

When an enraged Dani concentrates her powers on the destruction of Orchestra and Bo, Skouras turns to Winter and Channing for help. Bo and Tate’s attempt to start fresh on their own is short-lived when Bo has intense visions of Dani, and pulls them back into danger.

 

Series finale. *sniff*

[millahnna]

I'm hoping this will at least have a feeling of complete story, though I'm certain lots of stuff will be left up in the air.  Sigh, I really liked this show.

Edited June 12, 2014 by millahnna

[FAU]

So this is it, ok, I just wished there was more of a build up of a character who's in the middle of this season's/series' climax.

[shapeshifter]

I'll be watching, but really, I'm not sure why.

[sjohnson]

Of course I'll be watching, I really enjoyed watching Bo abuse Tate to help someone. In particular, Bo keeping Tate from getting laid after years in prison is priceless.

[ottoDbusdriver]

That was rather lame considering it would have been the season finale.

 

What was the point of the fire tornado exactly ?  Couldn't Dani just set fire to the buildings without the whole Carrie-like display ?  Dani corrals everyone in that one building, and then leaves but locks them in -- was she going to to burn it down, yet somehow only managed to set fire to all the other buildings ?  The fire CGI was pretty crappy as well.

 

I guess they didn't have enough story to tell what with the filler of the car driving around New York.  Tate is still a wanted prison escapee wanted by the FBI, but that doesn't even seem to bother him any more.

 

Bo is now Haley Joel Osment from Sixth Sense -- she sees dead people.  Is Bo seeing her mother from Heaven (since Bo's mom was apparently talking to other dead people) or a higher plane of existence or is really just Bo's subconscious ?  Maybe Bo's mom ascended to pure energy á la Stargate.

 

Was Tate honestly chasing butterflies while driving the car to find that residence where Dani had stayed ?  Were the blue butterflies a manifestation of Bo's mom (since she said she would always be nearby) ?

[alias1]

AWWW!

[shapeshifter]

First, rant:

At the beginning of the road trip, when Tate said he wanted Bo to get them the winning lottery ticket, I thought: How exactly are they going to collect the winnings when they are both on the FBI's wanted list?

Then I forgot about it.

But then, in the last scene they had to bring it up again. It kind of felt like: Are you idiots still watching this?

 

NBC was cutting out during the show. I saw that Bo healed Dani of the worst case of Psorisis ever and special cataracts that allow the person to see, but did Dani then die?

 

Anyone else notice--ever since that episode when Miss Channing told Bo's grandfather that Bo was her kid--that Jamie Chung really does look like she really could be Johnny Sequoyah's mother?

[FAU]

 

I guess they didn't have enough story to tell what with the filler of the car driving around New York.  Tate is still a wanted prison escapee wanted by the FBI, but that doesn't even seem to bother him any more.

 

They just seemed to have dropped that.

 

The finale just felt underwhelming, especially with Dani who was supposed to be an important character being a main focus of the finale climax yet it felt rushed in the last few episodes.  Bo and Dani only just actually met in this episode so there wasn't much of a build up to make it satisfying like it should've been.

 

I did like Bo's relationship with Tate, Winters, and Channing. though, it's pretty much what I got from the show other than the constant on the run/helping the people of the week stuff.

Edited June 16, 2014 by FAU

[ottoDbusdriver]

but did Dani then die?

 

Nope, she just got up and left the scene leaning on Channing for support -- no idea what happened after that.

Edited June 16, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[FAU]

Nope, she just got up and left the scene leaning on Channing for support -- no idea what happened after that.

 

I assume from the title, she's the one who got the second chance and Bo saved her from that at the end.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I assume from the title, she's the one who got the second chance and Bo saved her from that at the end.

 

Bo cured Dani of the 'degrade' disease she was suffering from -- and when Dani asked why, Bo repeated the second chance speech that Tate had stated earlier in the episode.

 

ETA: I'm still not sure who the dead guy at the fountain was (the one that had all the Orchestra documents on him) ?

Edited June 16, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[FAU]

Bo cured Dani of the 'degrade' disease she was suffering from -- and when Dani asked why, Bo repeated the second chance speech that Tate had stated earlier in the episode.

 

Thanks, it makes more sense now.

 

ETA: I'm still not sure who the dead guy at the fountain was (the one that had all the Orchestra documents on him) ?

 

I think so, but I'm not sure either, it just felt random.

[bros402]

Bo cured Dani of the 'degrade' disease she was suffering from -- and when Dani asked why, Bo repeated the second chance speech that Tate had stated earlier in the episode.

 

ETA: I'm still not sure who the dead guy at the fountain was (the one that had all the Orchestra documents on him) ?

 

The dead guy was the hitman who was wearing a gas mask and led the group of guys into the room, then a gunshot was fired.

 

Also, I liked the finale more than certain episodes.

 

Honestly, i'm wondering more what would've happened if the show had been renewed and they had to work with that finale.

[blugirlami21]

I wondered the same thing.  On the one hand I am happy that we didn't end on an cliffhanger since the show was cancelled suddenly (seemed a little too wrapped up as if it was expected?) but if it had a season two what would it have been about?  Tate and Bo on a nevereneding road trip?  Tate and Winter never really made any effort to clear Tate's name so that he's not a wanted criminal anymore so are they always going to be looking over their shoulder.  I also agree with the lottery ticket thing.  How were they going to collect their winnings?

 

I still found that Tate still bugs me.  I still feel like he is not being her parent as much as he is her cheerleader.  He's very supportive but I wish that a responsible adult like Channing or Winter was with them.  The Dani situation was rushed.  I don't feel she had enough time to feel that strongly about Skouris or for us to care if she went off the rails.  The whole time I felt like she was a toddler having a tantrum.  You know something's wrong if a child about a decade younger than you is more mature than you are.

 

I wonder if network's really think shows like Believe should be a show that should go on for seasons and seasons.  I honestly think it would have been better as a limited episode series or miniseries.  The show had great characters but an unsustainable plot.

[FAU]

I wonder if network's really think shows like Believe should be a show that should go on for seasons and seasons.  I honestly think it would have been better as a limited episode series or miniseries.  The show had great characters but an unsustainable plot.

 

Yeah, having your series where your characters are on the run aren't really sustainable as a long running series.