All Creatures Great And Small (2021) - General Discussion

[DonnaMae]

Crankcase, I love your idea of what will happen between Siegfried and Mrs. Hall.  It makes total sense.  Too bad you aren't one of the writers for the series.

I didn't know that Edward was adopted.  Are you sure?

[Daff]

21 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

No idea it was that old because it does seem to be a very modern era phrase.

In the 90s, my adolescent students thought they had invented “Corny”! 

[Ilovepie]

19 hours ago, Daff said:

I thoroughly understand viewership’s reluctance to accept such drastic changes to the source material. However, if you think about how “cardboard cutout” the original Mrs. Hall’s character really was- minimal in the books, simply the paid help in the ‘70s version-I’m glad that this version has decided to expand her presence (and humanity). I can appreciate all three versions equally, and enjoy the added perspective of this new version. Do you think viewers would be more accepting of an older character’s expanded role, showing effects the coming war would have on her life/family? Certainly, no children of the older version would be exposed to the threat of war, and posters here would probably claim that they don’t care about a mundane Mrs. Hall home life story line. I’m happy to watch Audrey’s progression in this ensemble. 

I appreciate this perspective, and normally I don't mind differences between books and movies/shows if they are true to the source material to some degree. I will say it bugs me more if I read the books first (like in this instance) more than the other way around. For some reason, it's easier to replace a tv show character with what I see in my mind by reading after the viewing but it's harder when I created a version in my head first. And here it's even more muddled - there are the real life people, the book characters and then the various shows. Siegfried, Helen and Mrs. Hall have all had significant backstory changes this go around that are hard to ignore and become something of a distraction as I am watching. I do like all of them on this show, including this version of Mrs. Hall, but I feel like the last couple of seasons her character has become a little formulaic. I am glad she was given more to do this episode than flit around Skeldale alternately chastising/encouraging Siegfried and Tristan.

[ofmd]

For me, Audrey is a character in her own right, not just a prop whose only role in the show is to "make Siegfried whole." Which is why I loved seeing a different side of her than just the eternal mediator between Siegfried and Tristan.

The episode was very well done, if sad. I fear for Edward getting killed in the war, particularly

Spoiler

as we know that our main protagonists will survive fighting the war. Plus, losing Edward might just be the above speculated catalyst bringing Siegfried and Audrey closer. Well, maybe fearing he is dead but then discovering he is among the survivors will be enough!

Don't get me wrong, I am shipping them, and I don't ship a lot.

ETA: I realized my first sentence may sound harsh; I just meant to say I'm always happy to see her in some other capacity than only in relation to our boys. And I agree with the idea of their roles being reversed, Siegfried (and maybe the whole family) taking care of the eternal caretaker for once.

Edited February 10, 2023 by ofmd

[Noneofyourbusiness]

9 hours ago, DonnaMae said:

Crankcase, I love your idea of what will happen between Siegfried and Mrs. Hall.  It makes total sense.  Too bad you aren't one of the writers for the series.

I didn't know that Edward was adopted.  Are you sure?

He was not. That was part of Crankcase's scenario, where if Audrey and Siegfried were married they would have to adopt.

[Cetacean]

Goodness, I am glad that I read the books 40 years ago so none of the changes mean a thing.  Can't remember anyhting from that far back.

[Blergh]

I liked the addition of the profoundly deaf women volunteers at the train depot to boost the departing service folks' morale via dispensing the  de riguer tea (somewhat brought to mind the Duke of Edinburgh's mother Alice, Princess Andrew of Greece). However, that one who singled out Mrs. Hall and not only personally sought to give her a cup but also evidently used her lip-reading skill to convey what Edward supposedly shouted to Mrs. Hall as the train departed. I wish someone had uttered that character's name!

FWIW, I like that neither Mrs. Hall nor the viewers actually were able to HEAR what Edward supposedly said so we can  leave to our individual imaginations as to whether the profoundly deaf volunteer actually conveyed the message that he loved her despite having been surly and expressing so much bitterness re her having blown the whistle on his earlier  thievery OR whether the volunteer decided to perform a mercy on  the devoted and clearly distressed mother via telling her what she so desperately would have liked to have heard from him!

Helen and James came through for Jenny's ewe (as expected) but I liked that Helen didn't attempt to belittle Jenny's goal to be the best farmer she could be- yet encouraged her to get the best possible education so she could make the most INFORMED decision re how she wanted to live her life and her place in the world. James wound up being virtually a bit player for this episode.

I can't help but wonder if Siegfried may have been close to being as doting towards Tristan as he was to that young student during Tristan's own youth but the subsequent battles and misunderstandings could have somewhat faded the more positive memories in Tristan's mind.

Alas, the clouds of war are drawing all too near and it won't be too long that virtually all the British civilians' independence will be severely curtailed via the war effort- to say nothing of their very lives being threatened in the upcoming Blitz,etc.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Given that Edward changed his mind and asked for the biscuits at the end, I'm pretty sure the deaf woman was telling the truth. He wouldn't be saying something bad, and what else would he want the last words he desperately tries to say to her as he's speeding away to be? "Eat at Joe's"? "I love you, mum" is the only thing that logically fits the situation.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Blergh]

13 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Given that Edward changed his mind and asked for the biscuits at the end, I'm pretty sure the deaf woman was telling the truth. He wouldn't be saying something bad, and what else would he want the last words he desperately tries to say to her as he's speeding away to be? "Eat at Joe's"? "I love you, mum" is the only thing that logically fits the situation.

 Maybe Edward might have said 'good cookies' (which as the same number of syllables of those three little words)!

Regardless, since none of us HEARD it, it's possible that the lip-reading volunteer could have performed a mercy (and, as I said, we can individually decide for ourselves what was said).

[Blergh]

It was a bit puzzling to me why Mrs. Hall seemed to want to encourage Edward to resume attempting to bond with the alcoholic and evidently abusive Mr. Hall when she herself  had had to flee to make a new life for herself and their young son. I know Edward's now grown and wouldn't have been as much of a sitting duck to physical abuse as he had been as a small child but, truly, I think she should have been relieved rather than trying to insist on Edward bonding with him- despite her pitying Mr. Hall and loving him for how he'd been before WWI. I  hope Edward (if he survives WWII) keeps his resolve to stay off the sauce despite his troubled past.

[possibilities]

Didn't we see Edward's lips? You don't have to be Deaf to learn lip reading. If there are doubts, we could look at the film. But also, I don't think the Deaf woman had any idea what their conversation had been about, so she had no reason to consider making something up instead of telling the truth.

I thought Mrs Hall was just trying to turn Edward's mind toward forgiving him the way she had-- he was damaged by the war, etc. I didn't get that she wanted him to actually be close to the man. I was more amazed that she is in denial about the war itself, and not more terrified of Edward's enlistment.

[Blergh]

Considering that Edward HAD been detained in at least juvie for his thievery, I suppose Mrs. Hall might have done her best to have considered the Royal Navy to have been a place where he could have learned structure,discipline and guidance (not to mention having the most reliable and varied cuisine of the armed services) but not let herself think of the actual risks even though war hadn't been declared yet.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Didn't we see Edward's lips? You don't have to be Deaf to learn lip reading. If there are doubts, we could look at the film. But also, I don't think the Deaf woman had any idea what their conversation had been about, so she had no reason to consider making something up instead of telling the truth.

Late actress Nanette Fabray was hearing impaired (although not totally deaf).  I remember once (MANY years ago) on the Phil Donohue show, she talked about lip reading.  She said, "One would think that reading 'I love you' would be easy, but the lip movements are almost identical when you're saying 'I'll have a few.'  So it's not as easy as it looks."  Maybe Edward wanted her to rescue the cookies and was telling her, "I'll have a few, Ma."  (Just kidding.)

[Calvada]

Did the guy who brought in the injured dog assume that Andrew was Siegfried's son?  Haven't the Farnons lived in this area for a long time; wouldn't a local have known that he didn't have children?  

I thought it was odd that James could just hang out at the farm, that Tristan could be on KP all day, and that Siegfried apparently had no plans until the injured dog was brought in.  For a moment I thought perhaps it was a Sunday but then I remembered that Helen was expecting her sister to leave for school.

[dargosmydaddy]

So... someone help me figure out the scene at the Alderson farm, because surely the writing was that abysmal... Helen goes with James to do the TB testing at the farm (understandable). Helen leaves her father and James to finish the testing themselves so she can go comfort Jenny, who's upset by the war news (also understandable). Helen then leaves the farm shortly thereafter and walks home by herself, since she's not present for her father and James's argument, which appears to take place in the house (possibly the barn?). Why would she go home on her own, other than for the convenience of the plot? Why is the writing on this show getting so bad when it comes to plot mechanics? Don't get me wrong, the character stuff is lovely, but it's not that difficult to construct a plot that doesn't fall to pieces the minute a viewer has to wonder why a character would do something completely nonsensical just for the plot to work.

[Jodithgrace]

Also, I don’t know how things work in England, but wouldn’t the report that was mailed with no stamp be returned to sender? Though now that I think of it, when I was a kid, in the 1950s, letters would sometimes arrive “postage due,” and the recipient would have to pay to get their letter. Would the ministry pay the postage?

I don’t understand that nasty ministry man. Obviously James and Helen had come to prevent an erroneous report from being filed, which is kind of the opposite of covering things up. I can’t stand people who refuse to listen to explanations. 
 

So it looks like Tristan is signing up as well. I guess Siegfried is going to have a busy war. 

[YorkshireLass]

This episode had me in tears throughout.  This show is so well done.  I like programs that make me "feel" and this series continues to do that in almost every episode.

Helen knowing what was in James' heart and telling him she supported him in following it despite the possibility of losing him.

Tristan being so utterly lost and James and Florence recognizing it and urging him to discover what he wants from life.  (I hope he ends up with Florence.)

Siegfrid on so many fronts.  Feeling he's failed Tristan.  Being put in the position of having to euthanize animals again because of another damn war.  His utter devastation that seemingly nothing was learned from World War 1.  His recognization that Dash meant something very special to Mrs. Hall and allowing the dog to stay in the Farnon household.  (I wonder how many other "war" pets will be brought to Skeldale House once the news gets out that they've taken Dash in.)

Children being evacuated and taken away from their parents and the life they knew and going towards a very unknown future.  My father was evacuated from an industrial city in Yorkshire because his mother knew it could be a German target.  Dad was one of the fortunate kids who ended up in a wonderful home with two older women who doted on him and wanted to adopt him after the war was over (needless to say, my Grandma said no).  Many children were not so fortunate and were worked to the bone on farms that had no men to do the work and used the children in their place.

I can't believe next week is already the end of the season.  Why are there so few episodes?

[Daff]

8 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Also, I don’t know how things work in England, but wouldn’t the report that was mailed with no stamp be returned to sender? Though now that I think of it, when I was a kid, in the 1950s, letters would sometimes arrive “postage due,” and the recipient would have to pay to get their letter. Would the ministry pay the postage?

I don’t understand that nasty ministry man. Obviously James and Helen had come to prevent an erroneous report from being filed, which is kind of the opposite of covering things up. I can’t stand people who refuse to listen to explanations. 
 

So it looks like Tristan is signing up as well. I guess Siegfried is going to have a busy war. 

Mrs Hall put the postage on it. Also, when I was a child, back in the days when postage stamps had to be moistened and affixed, or if your letter exceeded the weight limit for the one cent stamp, it was delivered anyway, with a “postage due” in big red letters. I lived in relatively small local delivery areas and the carriers trusted that recipients would place the few cents in the mailbox the next day. Eventually, as postage increased, they changed to holding it at the Post Office and notifying you that you had a delivery with postage due. Yes, the ministry office would have paid out of petty cash. Stamps frequently fell off for any number of reasons.

[Daff]

I can’t believe the entire season slipped by before the return of Patricia Hodge. I also love that this version has her employing many locals and doing her best to help the war effort. A child should be a hoot-she’ll spoil her rotten, but also instill her with community duty. 
Every episode, when there’s only about 10-12 minutes left, I find myself disappointed that they aren’t longer. Same with the season-wish there were a few more episodes. (As long as I’m wishing…how about a 2-hour finale?)

[chitowngirl]

43 minutes ago, YorkshireLass said:

I can't believe next week is already the end of the season.  Why are there so few episodes?

British shows are generally only 6 episodes per series (season). Last nights was the end of the series and next week is the bonus Christmas episode.

[YorkshireLass]

36 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

British shows are generally only 6 episodes per series (season). Last nights was the end of the series and next week is the bonus Christmas episode.

It's strange, but the first two seasons didn't seem this short.  I'm used to North American shows where at one point we used to get 22 to 26 episodes per season.  Now, it's 18 to 20.  Sure wish this show did a longer season.  I've looked forward to it each year and the episodes whiz by and then it's the long, long wait till the next season 😞.

[Cetacean]

1 hour ago, Daff said:

I lived in relatively small local delivery areas and the carriers trusted that recipients would place the few cents in the mailbox the next day.

My rural carrier in Michigan still does that, leaves a bright orange envelope with the amount due on the front.  It's a long way to town so that's a blessing.

I dread the thought of the war years.  Not enough Kleenex to get tme through each episode.

[cinsays]

10 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

So... someone help me figure out the scene at the Alderson farm, because surely the writing was that abysmal... Helen goes with James to do the TB testing at the farm (understandable). Helen leaves her father and James to finish the testing themselves so she can go comfort Jenny, who's upset by the war news (also understandable). Helen then leaves the farm shortly thereafter and walks home by herself, since she's not present for her father and James's argument, which appears to take place in the house (possibly the barn?). Why would she go home on her own, other than for the convenience of the plot? Why is the writing on this show getting so bad when it comes to plot mechanics? Don't get me wrong, the character stuff is lovely, but it's not that difficult to construct a plot that doesn't fall to pieces the minute a viewer has to wonder why a character would do something completely nonsensical just for the plot to work.

why shouldn't she go home on her own?

[Doublemint]

I missed the first 10 minutes, jumped in where James was driving back home.  I agree with the above, it seems very odd for Helen to walk back to town.  How far is it?  Has to be at least 2 miles.   Other than that it  was a good episode.   This series is turning very dramatic.   It could easily have gone the other way, as did the old one, with Tristan's crazy antics.   This Tristan is a real sober sides.   I enjoy the show, it's just so very different than the old one & the books.   I don't think Mrs. Hall would have had that lingering hand-holding with Siegfrid outside Skeldale House with the whole village viewing - not in 1939.  Are they filming Season 4? (I'm assuming it's returning).

[Llywela]

33 minutes ago, Doublemint said:

I agree with the above, it seems very odd for Helen to walk back to town.  How far is it?  Has to be at least 2 miles.  

I mean, I routinely walk 4 miles to work and back, and think very little of it. My great-grandfather in the early 1900s was walking five miles cross-country, alone, to get to school and back from the age of six, and his family thought nothing of it, that was normal. I know America is different, doesn't have that kind of pedestrian culture, with cities and communities designed around the idea that everyone will be driving everywhere, but it really isn't like that in the UK. Our towns and cities were not designed around cars in the same way. Walking even long distances is entirely possible and a very normal thing to do even today, never mind the 1930s. Even on those narrow country roads like you see in the show. Someone like Helen wouldn't bat an eyelid at a long walk into town, it would just be part of her regular routine if she didn't have her bike with her.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Llywela
missed a word

[Daff]

10 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

So... someone help me figure out the scene at the Alderson farm, because surely the writing was that abysmal... Helen goes with James to do the TB testing at the farm (understandable). Helen leaves her father and James to finish the testing themselves so she can go comfort Jenny, who's upset by the war news (also understandable). Helen then leaves the farm shortly thereafter and walks home by herself, since she's not present for her father and James's argument, which appears to take place in the house (possibly the barn?). Why would she go home on her own, other than for the convenience of the plot? Why is the writing on this show getting so bad when it comes to plot mechanics? Don't get me wrong, the character stuff is lovely, but it's not that difficult to construct a plot that doesn't fall to pieces the minute a viewer has to wonder why a character would do something completely nonsensical just for the plot to work.

The established routine was for James to go out on calls, Helen to start her day helping out at the farm. Unless James was going past the farm, Helen walked or rode her bike. After James argued over the last cow, he would have collected his conciliatory sample, disinfected himself, and gone on to other farm calls. There was always a list. I suppose we aren’t seeing the thriving, busy practice because of continued Covid constraints during filming. Also note-their phone hasn’t even rung enough throughout this whole series to match the number of times it rang in just one episode of the old series. Transportation in ‘39: walk, bike, horse/cart, bus, car. 

[Daff]

36 minutes ago, Doublemint said:

I missed the first 10 minutes, jumped in where James was driving back home.  I agree with the above, it seems very odd for Helen to walk back to town.  How far is it?  Has to be at least 2 miles.   Other than that it  was a good episode.   This series is turning very dramatic.   It could easily have gone the other way, as did the old one, with Tristan's crazy antics.   This Tristan is a real sober sides.   I enjoy the show, it's just so very different than the old one & the books.   I don't think Mrs. Hall would have had that lingering hand-holding with Siegfrid outside Skeldale House with the whole village viewing - not in 1939.  Are they filming Season 4? (I'm assuming it's returning).

I always felt sorry for Davison, that he was never allowed to grow out of that ridiculous caricature of second son. 

[libgirl2]

17 minutes ago, Daff said:

I always felt sorry for Davison, that he was never allowed to grow out of that ridiculous caricature of second son. 

Well he did do well for himself traveling the universe. Seriously, when that show ran, times were different. I like the depth we are getting in this remake. 

1 hour ago, Doublemint said:

I missed the first 10 minutes, jumped in where James was driving back home.  I agree with the above, it seems very odd for Helen to walk back to town.  How far is it?  Has to be at least 2 miles.   Other than that it  was a good episode.   This series is turning very dramatic.   It could easily have gone the other way, as did the old one, with Tristan's crazy antics.   This Tristan is a real sober sides.   I enjoy the show, it's just so very different than the old one & the books.   I don't think Mrs. Hall would have had that lingering hand-holding with Siegfrid outside Skeldale House with the whole village viewing - not in 1939.  Are they filming Season 4? (I'm assuming it's returning).

I understand what you mean with the hand holding. I also wondered about Florence's parents. Was it considered okay at that time to have a mixed marriage? 

Edited February 13, 2023 by libgirl2

[Driad]

When a cow had TB, and the healthy cattle were temporarily confiscated, what happened to the farm's other sources of income?  Chickens can get TB; would chickens be tested or killed?  Could the farm sell vegetables and other crops?  Were the humans required to be tested for TB?  Maybe they had to look for work elsewhere for the duration.

[Llywela]

24 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I understand what you mean with the hand holding. I also wondered about Florence's parents. Was it considered okay at that time to have a mixed marriage? 

Depends on what you mean by 'okay'. There were no laws against it. In my part of the UK, which experienced mass immigration from the mid-1800s on, mixed marriage became relatively common from a fairly early date and within those communities no one would bat an eyelid. In Yorkshire, which did not see large scale immigration until much later, mixed marriages would have raised a few eyebrows, probably, just because lack of opportunity made the odd few stand out against the herd. And there are always going to be racists, wherever you go, who take any opportunity to have a pop. But in general, yes, it was perfectly okay to have a mixed marriage at that time, although the reception to that marriage would likely have been equally mixed.

[Llywela]

18 minutes ago, Driad said:

When a cow had TB, and the healthy cattle were temporarily confiscated, what happened to the farm's other sources of income?  Chickens can get TB; would chickens be tested or killed?  Could the farm sell vegetables and other crops?  Were the humans required to be tested for TB?  Maybe they had to look for work elsewhere for the duration.

The healthy cattle weren't confiscated. They remained on the farm. When the show talks about farms being shut down, what that means is that the farmer was not allowed to sell any milk products, specifically, and for a dairy farmer, milk products would be 99% of his income. A dairy farm in the 1930s would not really be raising vegetables or other crops except for consumption by the family - diversification is a much more modern concept. But if they did, then there would be no problem selling vegetables or other crops because TB does not spread through vegetables or grain, so they cannot be a source of infection. I don't know if TB can spread from chickens to humans via egg or meat products, but a farmer raising a dairy herd would be very unlikely to also maintain an industrial flock of chickens, so that wouldn't really be an issue. Any chickens he kept would be for use by the family, not for sale.

I don't believe humans living on a farm where the herd was infected would be required to get any kind of test, no. If they became ill, they would go to their doctor and diagnosis would happen that way. The reason the farm was shut down was specifically because TB could be spread via dairy products produced by an infected animal, and the farmer would be selling those products; items for sale fall under legal regulation in a way that normal human interactions do not.

I think a farmer who'd had his farm shut down for further TB testing would struggle to take work elsewhere, because a) this is a rural community with limited employment opportunities, and b) he still has to run the farm, even if he can't sell his dairy produce for the time being. Surviving with massively reduced income for a few weeks would be difficult, which is why so many farmers were so resistant to TB testing, but that was just the way things were.

[libgirl2]

11 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Depends on what you mean by 'okay'. There were no laws against it. In my part of the UK, which experienced mass immigration from the mid-1800s on, mixed marriage became relatively common from a fairly early date and within those communities no one would bat an eyelid. In Yorkshire, which did not see large scale immigration until much later, mixed marriages would have raised a few eyebrows, probably, just because lack of opportunity made the odd few stand out against the herd. And there are always going to be racists, wherever you go, who take any opportunity to have a pop. But in general, yes, it was perfectly okay to have a mixed marriage at that time, although the reception to that marriage would likely have been equally mixed.

Thank you for the explanation. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don’t understand that nasty ministry man. Obviously James and Helen had come to prevent an erroneous report from being filed, which is kind of the opposite of covering things up. I can’t stand people who refuse to listen to explanations. 

Yeah, I don't see why Harcourt would think James was trying to cover up the TB at Helen's farm if he came to his office to explain the whole thing. That's the very opposite of a cover-up.

Quote

British shows are generally only 6 episodes per series (season). Last nights was the end of the series and next week is the bonus Christmas episode.

But other shows usually increase the number of episodes in successive seasons. Downton Abbey, for example - started with six episodes, then the second series had seven (plus a Christmas episode) then the third series had eight, etc. 

[Zella]

27 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

But other shows usually increase the number of episodes in successive seasons. Downton Abbey, for example - started with six episodes, then the second series had seven (plus a Christmas episode) then the third series had eight, etc.

Downton Abbey also had substantial popularity outside the UK that I don't think All Creatures (or many other currently running shows) has ever attained, so I don't think it's unusual its episode run increased when other shows don't. At its peak, it was a real juggernaut. I was in college at the time, and people you'd never expect to watch it would come to class ranting about what had happened last night on the show and arguing over spoilers and nearly the whole class would be involved. 

It also generated a lot of, for lack of a better word, spinoff things that really capitalized on the connection to the show. Books about the time period, franchise cookbooks, documentaries, etc. I work at a library and those all circulated, and Downton Abbey still circs really well too. I live in small town nowhere America, and Downton Abbey still outcircs All Creatures. And people are still excited about the spinoff movies! I don't think there's that kind of market for an All Creatures series of movies whenever the show finally ends. 

Personally, I thought Downton Abbey got super stupid (and I like All Creatures better), so this isn't a defense of the show, but I still watched it to the bitter end and caught one of the sequel movies after it came to DVD. LOL 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Zella

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah, I don't see why Harcourt would think James was trying to cover up the TB at Helen's farm if he came to his office to explain the whole thing. That's the very opposite of a cover-up.

I imagine he assumed they'd had second thoughts. I mean, let's face it: it did look bad for them. They slipped up in multiple ways and deserved the bollocking they got.

[Driad]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

A dairy farm in the 1930s would not really be raising vegetables or other crops except for consumption by the family - diversification is a much more modern concept.

Thank you. I was thinking of my grandparents' farm in the U.S. at the same time, which was more of a subsistence farm. They had cows and sold milk, but also raised chickens for eggs, grain for animal feed, and vegetables and fruit for themselves. I don't recall seeing chickens or crops on Helen's family's farm, but that wouldn't necessarily mean they weren't there.

[peacheslatour]

13 minutes ago, Driad said:

Thank you. I was thinking of my grandparents' farm in the U.S. at the same time, which was more of a subsistence farm. They had cows and sold milk, but also raised chickens for eggs, grain for animal feed, and vegetables and fruit for themselves. I don't recall seeing chickens or crops on Helen's family's farm, but that wouldn't necessarily mean they weren't there.

I remember seeing chickens but they were kind of just wandering around, almost like pets that happen to give eggs.

[possibilities]

Where were all the refugee children going to stay? Did they send them to a central facility? I don't see where that would be in Skeldale. So did they seek volunteers to each take one child? How did that work?

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I remember seeing chickens but they were kind of just wandering around, almost like pets that happen to give eggs.

A lot of times free-range chickens still have a coop they may lay in. Whether or not they cooperate with laying in the coop or finding their own special laying place is up to the chicken. LOLOL In any event, I suspect they're still primarily for eggs and meat rather than pets. 

[peacheslatour]

Just now, Zella said:

A lot of times free-range chickens still have a coop they may lay in. Whether or not they cooperate with laying in the coop or finding their own special laying place is up to the chicken. LOLOL In any event, I suspect they're still primarily for eggs and meat rather than pets. 

Oh, I'm sure they were. I just remember seeing them.

[Llywela]

7 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Where were all the refugee children going to stay? Did they send them to a central facility? I don't see where that would be in Skeldale. So did they seek volunteers to each take one child? How did that work?

Local families would take in evacuees. Think The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe, the four Pevensey children being taken in by a stranger who happened to have a big enough house to accommodate them. Children were evacuated from cities thought to be at risk - London in particular - and were shipped out to the country. Local coordinators then had the task of trying to find places for them all to stay, which would be with local families. Anyone who had a spare bed would be encouraged to do their bit for the war effort by taking in an evacuee or two. An effort would be made to keep siblings together. And what kind of life the evacuees had in their new homes was very mixed. Some had a wonderful time. Others not so much.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Llywela
typo

[Driad]

17 minutes ago, Llywela said:

And what kind of life the evacuees had in their new homes was very mixed. Some had a wonderful time. Others not so much.

Reminiscent of the orphan trains in the U.S., which took homeless orphans from Eastern cities to the Midwest, but that transportation was intended to be permanent.  Some children were adopted into loving homes; others were exploited as cheap labor.

[Daff]

3 hours ago, Llywela said:

The healthy cattle weren't confiscated. They remained on the farm. When the show talks about farms being shut down, what that means is that the farmer was not allowed to sell any milk products, specifically, and for a dairy farmer, milk products would be 99% of his income. A dairy farm in the 1930s would not really be raising vegetables or other crops except for consumption by the family - diversification is a much more modern concept. But if they did, then there would be no problem selling vegetables or other crops because TB does not spread through vegetables or grain, so they cannot be a source of infection. I don't know if TB can spread from chickens to humans via egg or meat products, but a farmer raising a dairy herd would be very unlikely to also maintain an industrial flock of chickens, so that wouldn't really be an issue. Any chickens he kept would be for use by the family, not for sale.

I don't believe humans living on a farm where the herd was infected would be required to get any kind of test, no. If they became ill, they would go to their doctor and diagnosis would happen that way. The reason the farm was shut down was specifically because TB could be spread via dairy products produced by an infected animal, and the farmer would be selling those products; items for sale fall under legal regulation in a way that normal human interactions do not.

I think a farmer who'd had his farm shut down for further TB testing would struggle to take work elsewhere, because a) this is a rural community with limited employment opportunities, and b) he still has to run the farm, even if he can't sell his dairy produce for the time being. Surviving with massively reduced income for a few weeks would be difficult, which is why so many farmers were so resistant to TB testing, but that was just the way things were.

I am sure you are quite correct on the procedure, but the script was written in a way that could cause viewer confusion. Helen’s father sat at the table as the official told him what would happen and for how long. He did actually say the words, “then your cows will be returned to you.” That made no sense to me, as with how contagious Bovine TB is, why would you move them at all. After thinking about it, the frequent inspections, signs at the gate, and probably not being able to even let them graze the fields, I figured they meant: “Return your cows to your CARE.” (and leave you alone)

[Tippi]

I teared up at the end, seeing James and Tristan in the sign up line.  Although, I had a pretty good idea that is where Tristan would end up when Flo turned him down.  It was just very poignant knowing what a tremendous ordeal and sacrifice was in store for the British people.  Not having read the book, or seen the previous adaptation, I don't know what to expect in how the show is going to cover this time period.  Can't believe the Christmas episode is upon us already!

 

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, Driad said:

Thank you. I was thinking of my grandparents' farm in the U.S. at the same time, which was more of a subsistence farm. They had cows and sold milk, but also raised chickens for eggs, grain for animal feed, and vegetables and fruit for themselves. I don't recall seeing chickens or crops on Helen's family's farm, but that wouldn't necessarily mean they weren't there.

The Yorkshire Dales don't really lend themselves to arable farming. It's all sheep and cows up there. Farmers would have kitchen gardens and keep hens etc for their own table, but wouldn't be producing grain or veg on a commercial basis, apart from maybe sending a few bits and pieces into town to sell at a stall on market day (we've seen Audrey browsing the market stalls on-screen now and then). The herd was their breadwinner, so all their effort went into that.

[tennisgurl]

Looks like its finally happening, we've been building up to war being declared for awhile now and its finally here, much to the sadness of everyone, including myself. Yes we all knew it was coming, but it didn't make it any easier seeing James and Tristan getting in line to sign up while Mrs. Hall and Siegfried held hands. I am not sure how the show will handle the wars years, if we are going to keep going through them or if there will be a time skip, but I know its going to be rough. This show always seems to wring tears out of me in the peaceful happy times, let alone when we know so much pain is on the way. 

At least we still have cute animals and all of that gorgeous scenery. I never get tired of looking at Yorkshire, those shots of the countryside while Mrs. Hall was talking to Gerald were incredible. I'm planning a trip to the UK right now and I am really considering adding some of Yorkshire to my itinerary, I cant even imagine what it looks like in person. 

The whole cast is always great, but they were really on top of their games in this episode. So much anxiety being projected just through body language, I especially loved the end with James and Tristan in the line, Tristan sort of straightens himself out and plants himself when James tells him to leave or he'll get recruited to, and then James straightening next to him, so much being said without words. I also thought the actor who plays Helen's dad had a great episode, you could really feel the weight of what he did when he killed his cow on his own hitting him as James and Helen were explaining the consequences of what he did, including James possibly being fired and conscripted. 

The Minister of Pointless Paperwork can take several seats. James and Helen clearly came to clear up an error, he didn't even have the letter yet, stop being such an ass about it. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Yes we all knew it was coming, but it didn't make it any easier seeing James and Tristan getting in line to sign up while Mrs. Hall and Siegfried held hands. I am not sure how the show will handle the wars years, if we are going to keep going through them or if there will be a time skip, but I know its going to be rough. 

Spoiler

In the books, James doesn't really talk much about the war. Each chaptor will start at boot camp or whatever and the he falls to reminiscing about life in Darrowby.

 

[Ilovepie]

I was so glad Helen took James' side against her father and stood up for him in the office. The whole mess looked so shady mostly because of Mr. Alderson disposing of the cow, even worse than the paperwork because James has shown sloppy paperwork problems before. Plus the fact that it was his own father in law.....Helen is pretty great, but this made me like her more. And that Jenny - telling James they can take care of themselves - those Alderson girls are tough!

I understand Siegfried laughing at Tristan for his premature proposal to Florence, but it was still cruel. I am glad Tristan stood up for himself, and not in a defensive childish manner. Good to see his growth this season.

I was surprised to see the kids being bused in at this stage of the war. I thought they started doing that during the London blitz.

[YorkshireLass]

8 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I was surprised to see the kids being bused in at this stage of the war. I thought they started doing that during the London blitz.

There was a program called Operation Pied Piper that started moving people the government thought were at greatest risk very early in the war (before war was actually declared).  The children we saw must have been a part of the initial wave.

[dargosmydaddy]

OK, I'll buy that James had other places to go after the Aldersons', and Helen would walk home on her own eventually... but shouldn't she have still been at the farm there when James left? And therefore heard about the TB-infected cow from either her father or James himself?

And then I'll go back to the envelope... I'll buy Mrs. Hall thinking she's being helpful by putting a stamp on the envelope and mailing it, but... was it sealed? Surely she wouldn't think she should mail an unsealed/ unstamped envelope? And if it was sealed... why? Helen is supposed to be a whiz at paperwork (hence why she's doing it); sending off a report that James didn't sign seems like a huge error. Heck, even if it wasn't sealed and she knew James had to sign it, why even fold it and put it in the envelope? Surely most people would leave the unsigned form out of the envelope so that the person who needs to sign it can easily do so. Urgh... so many stupid contrivances of plot manufactured to get to the intended outcome.

So I don't spend all my time complaining, I will say I love how Tristan is clearly jealous/ upset by Siegfried's seeming favoritism of James, yet still doesn't let that cloud his relationship with James. 

And the visual of Tristan frantically working his key off the ring behind his back so he could use the ring while he's literally in the midst of proposing was a small but hilarious moment.

I love book-Tristan, but I love show-Tristan even more. And I despise book-Siegfried but I low-key love show-Siegfried, so good job, show.