S15.E20: Carry On (Series Finale)

[Nick24]

Actually, I can see some difference in the way Jensen was playing Dean with Bobby and then with Sam on the bridge. As I've said before, with Bobby it felt like something was still bothering Dean. But I'm not sure about that in the final scene. Maybe that was some hint from Jensen, that Dean wasn't just driving...Maybe Dean found a way to help someone and do something good between those scenes....

Edited July 20, 2022 by Nick24

[MAK]

9 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

Probably that was exactly what Dabb/Singer wanted us to think. IMO Dean wouldn't have been driving for all those years, he would've found something to do.

I am basing my reading of Dean from early seasons, not S12-15.

IMO, Dean's closure with John may not have been totally shown, but was hinted at when they shared a drink in the kitchen before Mary came.

Also, I take "time works different here" at face value. Dean was driving for at most 30 minutes, if not the length of the songs, not 30-40 Earth years.

[Nick24]

14 minutes ago, MAK said:

Also, I take "time works different here" at face value. Dean was driving for at most 30 minutes, if not the length of the songs, not 30-40 Earth years.

I get that, but there are so many problems with the whole concept of Gack's Heaven and the time. In this case Sam's wife(?) and son will be there in a few minutes...and so on and on. And Dean is alone again. 

ETA: And once again this is all because Dabb/Singer didn't put any deep thoughts into it. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Nick24

[gonzosgirrl]

29 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

I get that, but there are so many problems with the whole concept of Gack's Heaven and the time. In this case Sam's wife(?) and son will be there in a few minutes...and so on and on. And Dean is alone again.

My theory on this (and I think I've probably stated it somewhere in this thread before) is that each person's heaven is their heaven. Meaning, in Dean's heaven, Sam is with him. Maybe in Jo's heaven, Dean is with her. In Bobby's heaven, he's with his wife, not sitting on the front porch of a roadhouse. Etc., etc.

Now, I don't really believe Dean's heaven would solely be "Sam" but I can accept that it would begin there.

[Nick24]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

My theory on this (and I think I've probably stated it somewhere in this thread before) is that each person's heaven is their heaven. Meaning, in Dean's heaven, Sam is with him. Maybe in Jo's heaven, Dean is with her. In Bobby's heaven, he's with his wife, not sitting on the front porch of a roadhouse. Etc., etc.

That makes sense, but in this case Jack's Heaven is pretty much the same as Chuck's Memorex. This isn't real. This is just faking. So apparently nothing has changed. Well, another reason to hate Jack/Dabb/Singer. 😄

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

That makes sense, but in this case Jack's Heaven is pretty much the same as Chuck's Memorex. This isn't real. This is just faking. So apparently nothing has changed. Well, another reason to hate Jack/Dabb/Singer. 😄

Real as opposed to what? It was established early on that heaven was the best of your memories. I'd like to think this is what heaven would be like (if I believed in heaven or hell, which I don't). I'd much prefer this to the warehouse of souls behind closed doors of later-seasons. There is a lot to hate about the finale (as in, pretty much all of it) but this concept of heaven isn't the worst.

[Nick24]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Real as opposed to what? 

I mean that "Sam'' in Dean's Heaven isn't the real Sam, etc. Well, probably this isn't necessarily bad for the person who lives in that Heaven, because he/she doesn't know that that isn't real, so it kind of comforts him/her, etc. But as a viewer I would know it wasn't real, so apparently Dean lives in some kind of dream just like in WIAWSNB. I guess I need to process that. But I guess that any clear concept of Heaven (or Hell) would look unsatisfying. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Sam is just as real as Dean is just as real as Sam. They are all dead. Anyone outside their own consciousness is not going to be any more or less real than they are themselves. IMO it's a concept of eternal peace, and regardless of my dislike of Sam, I do believe that he's part of Dean's 'peace'.

[Nick24]

20 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam is just as real as Dean is just as real as Sam. They are all dead. Anyone outside their own consciousness is not going to be any more or less real than they are themselves. IMO it's a concept of eternal peace, and regardless of my dislike of Sam, I do believe that he's part of Dean's 'peace'.

Well, I guess this is my own problem that I can't see any peace in afterlife. (After)life with no purpose, no moving, no developing doesn't sound like peace to me. I'm not saying this is impossible, maybe it is, especially considering that everyone has their own definition of ''peace''.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Nick24

[MAK]

32 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

Well, I guess this is my own problem that I can't see any peace in afterlife. (After)life with no purpose, no moving, no developing doesn't sound like peace to me.

If you look at everything Dabb/Singer have the characters say, no matter how much drivel, Bobby does say "It's a whole new world out there."

It doesn't make sense to say something like that if everything was just stagnant. Maybe souls will have a purpose. Maybe they will be like this:

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

My theory on this (and I think I've probably stated it somewhere in this thread before) is that each person's heaven is their heaven. Meaning, in Dean's heaven, Sam is with him. Maybe in Jo's heaven, Dean is with her. In Bobby's heaven, he's with his wife, not sitting on the front porch of a roadhouse. Etc., etc.

Or something else, where you can create new memories and/or realities to live out or relive. And it wouldn't be what all souls are doing, only the ones who still hold on to Earthly identities, until it comes a time where they truly just become energy or light or something.

The reason it's better than Chuck's Heaven is because there are possibilities. Chuck's was just individual holodecks, and I don't think the souls perceived themselves as "dead."

[gonzosgirrl]

48 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

Well, I guess this is my own problem that I can't see any peace in afterlife. (After)life with no purpose, no moving, no developing doesn't sound like peace to me. I'm not saying this is impossible, maybe it is, especially considering that everyone has their own definition of ''peace''.

And Dean's peace has always been with some version of Sam. Not in the co-dependent, wincest-fantasy way, but Dean has always wanted his family around him, and settled. No matter what Heaven is, unless you are actually put back on Earth, alive, you're... dead. We only saw the actual moment Sam joined him - I doubt they just got back in the car and drove around for eternity. Fact is, we don't know what happened from here. Maybe they went to John and Mary's and had that family dinner that Dean so clearly loved in "Lebanon".  I'm just not clear what would have satisfied here, except resurrecting Dean. No matter what 'heaven' is, he's dead.

[Nick24]

23 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And Dean's peace has always been with some version of Sam. 

I disagree. Dean clearly said in 10.13 that his peace was helping people and I believe that. That is why I can't see any peace for him in Heaven no matter what that Heaven looks like.

35 minutes ago, MAK said:

If you look at everything Dabb/Singer have the characters say, no matter how much drivel, Bobby does say "It's a whole new world out there."

I have another problem with that Bobby's statement. If Heaven is so great and you have/do anything you want, why bother to live on Earth? Let's just die happily. But I guess that's a rhetorical question. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Nick24

[gonzosgirrl]

16 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

I disagree. Dean clearly said in 10.13 that his peace was helping people and I believe that. That is why I can't see any peace for him in Heaven no matter what that Heaven looks like.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think that's a pretty narrow box to put him in.

There is no bigger Dean fan than me, and I don't like much about Sam, but I don't think there is much room for doubt that he's including Sam in that 'peace'. There was not really a time in the series (outside of demonhood) where he legitimately didn't want Sam as a part of his life, them together and fighting the good fight. I'm not going to try to convince you (or anyone) of this, and I don't believe for a moment that Dean couldn't and/or wouldn't (indeed, did) do just fine without Sam - but it would never have been his choice.

Edited July 20, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[tessathereaper]

6 hours ago, MAK said:

Not upset. Like I said, I randomly tear up just thinking about it. Sometimes a good cry is ... good.

A lot of people say that it was Sam's story because he was the last one standing, but, guess what, the show (and story) ended with *Dean's* death. There was no "story" for Sam after that. He didn't even live "happily ever after." It seemed like he was sad, grieving, lonely, and just surviving until he died. I guess that's tragic(?) but, not "tragic hero" tragic. That was Dean. 

Yeah all it really showed was that without Dean there was no story. The thing that made Supernatural most itself, was Dean Winchester. 

Supernatural came to life the minute Dean showed up in Sam's apartment in the pilot and it died when Dean died. 

It should have ended on episode 19.  Episode 20 exists for one reason only to get Dean out of the way of Sam's "normal life" and for Dabb to try and make sure there couldn't be anymore show.

[Nick24]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

There is no bigger Dean fan than me, and I don't like much about Sam, but I don't think there is much room for doubt that he's including Sam in that 'peace'

I should clarify myself. I'm not saying that Sam isn't part of Dean's peace. He is. So are all his loved ones. I'm just saying that they are not his only peace. And IMO Dean can't have 100% peace just hanging out with Sam or anyone else in Heaven. That's all I'm trying to say. 

[tessathereaper]

20 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think that's a pretty narrow box to put him in.

There is no bigger Dean fan than me, and I don't like much about Sam, but I don't think there is much room for doubt that he's including Sam in that 'peace'. There was not really a time in the series (outside of demonhood) where he legitimately didn't want Sam as a part of his life, them together and fighting the good fight. I'm not going to try to convince you (or anyone) of this, and I don't believe for a moment that Dean couldn't and/or wouldn't (indeed, did) do just fine without Sam - but it would never have been his choice.

I don't really understand what both of the points are here that you two are talking about?  I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

I would say no I don't think Dean would be all that at peace in "heaven" doing nothing, stagnating, having no purpose but existing for the sake of existing, no matter who he was with. 

I do also think Dean loves his brother and would certainly want him to be part of any existence he might have if he's given the choice.  I don't think he needs to be with him every minute or even every day.  But he would want to able to see him and talk to him and hang out with him on a regular basis.  

Edited July 20, 2022 by tessathereaper

[Nick24]

I think part of Dean's peace was helping people and making the world a better place. He liked it, because helping other people, making sure that they wouldn't go through what he and his family had gone through helped Dean.

The other part of Dean's peace is the well-being of his family, because of course he loved all of them and wanted the best for them and Dean was truly happy, when his loved ones were happy. And of course he wanted all of them to be together which was a part of Dean's peace too.

ETA: That is why I think Dean can only have one part of his peace in that Heaven, not 100% peace.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Nick24

[Myrelle]

7 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

6 hours ago, MAK said:

Not upset. Like I said, I randomly tear up just thinking about it. Sometimes a good cry is ... good.

A lot of people say that it was Sam's story because he was the last one standing, but, guess what, the show (and story) ended with *Dean's* death. There was no "story" for Sam after that. He didn't even live "happily ever after." It seemed like he was sad, grieving, lonely, and just surviving until he died. I guess that's tragic(?) but, not "tragic hero" tragic. That was Dean. 

Expand  

Yeah all it really showed was that without Dean there was no story. The thing that made Supernatural most itself, was Dean Winchester. 

Supernatural came to life the minute Dean showed up in Sam's apartment in the pilot and it died when Dean died. 

This is how it was for me. That's for sure.

I'm watching S2 on TNT now and I will forever be thankful for the first 4 seasons of this show and to those running things back then because they truly knew the value of both the character AND the actor who portrayed him. 

There were still many awesome Dean episodes after the episode The End, but to me it seemed as if a giant Stop sign was put up to/for any writers who saw Dean as a main character on the same level as Sam and Jensen as a co-lead on the same level as Jared.

BUT thankfully,  those first four plus seasons could never be erased from anyone's mind and the mold had already been set in stone by that point, IMO and in that way Dean became the  de facto POV character for too many Supernatural fans for them to in any way be able to backtrack and give that singular distinction to Sam.

They could say that the myth arc storyline, itself, centered on Sam and Sam alone(up until the end of 7 and going on into 8, that is), but I would say that by the end of S1, Jensen had already cemented Dean as the POV character for most of the viewing audience-something that I believe held, again for most of the viewing audience, even through Andre Badd's writing reign of terror wherein he tried with everything he had to give the long held by Dean singular distinction of audience POV character to Sam-something that I believe that the other showrunners from end of S5 Kripke and Gamble on down had also tried numerous times  w/o much success  either.

I can't watch the series finale ever again.

Once was enough for me to see what Dabb tried to do to this once great show(before he became the showrunner) and it's, IMO, most popular character/actor.

He killed Dean off before the halfway point of the season finale and that's when the show died for me, in all honesty, and I truly believe that was the case for no few others out there.

And I further believe that Jensen won the Critics' Choice Award that year because Jensen, through all those years, had triumphed in that way and this, in spite of most of the writing that he'd been given-and not in any way because of it. 

[gonzosgirrl]

18 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

I think part of Dean's peace was helping people and making the world a better place. He liked it, because helping other people, making sure that they wouldn't go through what he and his family had gone through helped Dean.

The other part of Dean's peace is the well-being of his family, because of course he loved all of them and wanted the best for them and Dean was truly happy, when his loved ones were happy. And of course he wanted all of them to be together which was a part of Dean's peace too.

ETA: That is why I think Dean can only have one part of his peace in that Heaven, not 100% peace.

So in order for Dean to have peace, there has to be some sort of 'hunt' in Heaven - people for him to save? Seems to me that would be the real 'memorex' heaven, since pretty much by definition people who have reached heaven shouldn't need saving from things. It's circular, and since I hate the finale no matter how it's interpreted, I'll bow out of this particular discussion, lol.

[gonzosgirrl]

27 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

I don't really understand what both of the points are here that you two are talking about?  I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

Well, I was responding to this:

Quote

I disagree. Dean clearly said in 10.13 that his peace was helping people and I believe that. That is why I can't see any peace for him in Heaven no matter what that Heaven looks like.

Which seemed pretty clear cut to me.

And I disagreed with it.

[MAK]

59 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't believe for a moment that Dean couldn't and/or wouldn't (indeed, did) do just fine without Sam - but it would never have been his choice.

IA, Dean chose to be with Sam. Always did. Doesn't mean he shriveled up and became useless without him. 

40 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

I think part of Dean's peace was helping people and making the world a better place.

That was Dean's end goal. His purpose in "life." He always talked about "retiring" if the world was safe and there were no more monsters. If he's given the choice of chilling in Heaven or helping on Earth (not becoming human again), his natural instinct would be to help.

But just in Heaven, in his new reality, he will go with the flow. And as a soul, does he have human emotions and physical needs? Is there the same drive, need, hunger to keep doing and going? Does he still feel guilt, remorse, regret? Maybe like in Buffy, where she existed as part of collective, continually surrounded by warmth and love. Or is it just a love fest with those you "choose" to interact with?

Dean's being at peace meant he has done everything he possibly could have, and now he's free, there isn't anything more to do. A reward for living the best life he could in his circumstances.

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

There is no bigger Dean fan than me, and I don't like much about Sam, but I don't think there is much room for doubt that he's including Sam in that 'peace'

Even beyond his parents, it's Sam's peace that gave Dean peace. As long as, somewhere, Sam was safe, healthy, and happy, Dean was at peace. That's why he wasn't completely at peace until Sam showed up, because he didn't know how Sam was doing on Earth, not necessarily because Sam wasn't there.

[tessathereaper]

That's a reason why I think Dean dying halfway through the finale wasn't any good, besides the fact it didn't at all fit with the themes they set up, I just don't think heaven would give Dean peace, no matter who he was with.  I can't see there really being any situation where inaction would actually give Dean peace.  Even when Dean sort of vaguely talked about retiring it seemed more like a vacation, or maybe not actively hunting himself but still helping people in some other capacity, either as a gathering place(like when Michael had him trapped in his mind, a bar, where others might come for a break between jobs and for helpful info possibly if they needed it.  

[Nick24]

4 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

That's a reason why I think Dean dying halfway through the finale wasn't any good, besides the fact it didn't at all fit with the themes they set up, I just don't think heaven would give Dean peace, no matter who he was with.  I can't see there really being any situation where inaction would actually give Dean peace.  Even when Dean sort of vaguely talked about retiring it seemed more like a vacation, or maybe not actively hunting himself but still helping people in some other capacity, either as a gathering place(like when Michael had him trapped in his mind, a bar, where others might come for a break between jobs and for helpful info possibly if they needed it.  

This is exactly what I was trying to say so badly. You did that in much better and shorter way.

Dean had a lot of energy inside himself. He just can't stay inactive. And this is also one of  the reasons I loathe 15.20. Dean needs to do something. Dean isn't that kind of person who could find 100% peace in inactive afterlife no matter what it looks like. As for helping people, I also meant, that Dean could find any other possible way to do it. Hunting isn't the only way. Dean isn't some one-dimensional killer as some writers wanted us to think. Dean is much more than that.

Anyway, thank you all for the discussion. That was interesting.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Nick24

[Bergamot]

7 hours ago, MAK said:

Or something else, where you can create new memories and/or realities to live out or relive. And it wouldn't be what all souls are doing, only the ones who still hold on to Earthly identities, until it comes a time where they truly just become energy or light or something.

That would be closer to what I thought it would be. But basically, I think that the show should never have tried to portray so concretely and specifically what Heaven is like, because they were bound to fall short. (And in this case it was just one of the many ways in which the finale fell short and ultimately failed for me.)

It’s like what happened with Hell on the show. The first time we saw it was at the end of “No Rest for the Wicked”, with Dean suspended in an infinite dark and empty space with chains and meat hooks. But then one of the writers said that this was not actually Hell, it was just the “waiting room” for Hell, and that what came next for Dean would be infinitely worse. And I was glad to hear that, because I didn’t think that the show had a big enough budget and writers with enough imagination to succeed at actually portraying Hell on the screen. As Alastair said when Dean was torturing him, reality on earth was just too concrete for it to work.

Unfortunately they couldn’t leave it alone, and kept trying to show us Hell, and every time they did it on the show it became less convincing and less impressive.  By the time they got to their last visit to Hell (I can’t remember, was it when they visited Rowena in Hell?), it just looked stupid and tacky and kind of pathetic to me.

And of course they did the same thing with Heaven. The way they portrayed Heaven (and angels as well) became less and less impressive and interesting every time they tried to show it. 

If they wanted to show Dean and Sam going to Heaven in the end – which btw I DID NOT WANT as the ending of the show – but if they just HAD to do that, then they should have left what it was going to be like up to our imaginations, beyond maybe just giving a few hints. For me, Heaven should be something so extraordinary, something so beyond our earthly existence, that it becomes ineffable, beyond our ability to describe or even imagine.

It would have worked better, in my opinion, if they had gone back to the idea of the “waiting room”, but this time for Heaven. Just don’t try to show us or tell us exactly what Heaven is like! Instead, the pretty scenery where you could enjoy driving around, which for some reason looked a lot like British Columbia, was just the entry room to Heaven, and when you were ready (which for Dean I guess would be when Sam showed up) you could move on to the real thing. And then just end it there.
 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Bergamot

[tessathereaper]

16 hours ago, Bergamot said:

That would be closer to what I thought it would be. But basically, I think that the show should never have tried to portray so concretely and specifically what Heaven is like, because they were bound to fall short. (And in this case it was just one of the many ways in which the finale fell short and ultimately failed for me.)

It’s like what happened with Hell on the show. The first time we saw it was at the end of “No Rest for the Wicked”, with Dean suspended in an infinite dark and empty space with chains and meat hooks. But then one of the writers said that this was not actually Hell, it was just the “waiting room” for Hell, and that what came next for Dean would be infinitely worse. And I was glad to hear that, because I didn’t think that the show had a big enough budget and writers with enough imagination to succeed at actually portraying Hell on the screen. As Alastair said when Dean was torturing him, reality on earth was just too concrete for it to work.

Unfortunately they couldn’t leave it alone, and kept trying to show us Hell, and every time they did it on the show it became less convincing and less impressive.  By the time they got to their last visit to Hell (I can’t remember, was it when they visited Rowena in Hell?), it just looked stupid and tacky and kind of pathetic to me.

And of course they did the same thing with Heaven. The way they portrayed Heaven (and angels as well) became less and less impressive and interesting every time they tried to show it. 

If they wanted to show Dean and Sam going to Heaven in the end – which btw I DID NOT WANT as the ending of the show – but if they just HAD to do that, then they should have left what it was going to be like up to our imaginations, beyond maybe just giving a few hints. For me, Heaven should be something so extraordinary, something so beyond our earthly existence, that it becomes ineffable, beyond our ability to describe or even imagine.

It would have worked better, in my opinion, if they had gone back to the idea of the “waiting room”, but this time for Heaven. Just don’t try to show us or tell us exactly what Heaven is like! Instead, the pretty scenery where you could enjoy driving around, which for some reason looked a lot like British Columbia, was just the entry room to Heaven, and when you were ready (which for Dean I guess would be when Sam showed up) you could move on to the real thing. And then just end it there.
 

 Kind of like Lost. :)  The whole final season was basically "the waiting room" for Heaven(well specifically the church was, the rest was them realizing they had each individually lived out their lives and were now dead) and heading to the Church).  Then from there they'd move on to whatever was next, together.

Edited July 21, 2022 by tessathereaper

[trudysmom]

I watched the finale once, and will not ever watch it again.  I don't have words for how much I hate it.  Dean's heaven has Bobby, mom and dad 'down the road a ways', and eventually Sam.  Dean's heaven.  But is it Sam's?  Is there even a Dean in Sam's heaven?  Because he wasn't in Sam's heaven in Dark Side of the Moon. 

Sorry, I'm still bitter, lol.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, trudysmom said:

I watched the finale once, and will not ever watch it again.  I don't have words for how much I hate it.  Dean's heaven has Bobby, mom and dad 'down the road a ways', and eventually Sam.  Dean's heaven.  But is it Sam's?  Is there even a Dean in Sam's heaven?  Because he wasn't in Sam's heaven in Dark Side of the Moon. 

Sorry, I'm still bitter, lol.

Well, we don't know what happened after Sam showed up.  Maybe he just gave him a hug and said, "good to see you, Dean, I missed you," and then goes off to reunite with his blurry wife, telling Dean to come to dinner some time.    And then Dean can go off to find his own friends and family, knowing Sam is safe and somewhere around.  😊

[7kstar]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:40 PM, trudysmom said:

I watched the finale once, and will not ever watch it again.  I don't have words for how much I hate it

Kind of my feelings for all of season 14 and 15.  I might watch one ep here and there but on the whole I'll skip it.  I still haven't had the urge to watch Supernatural from the beginning. 

I also don't believe in what they created for Heaven anyway, so I don't bother to think about what they could have done.  Although I didn't mind the beginning of the angel stories, I really wish they hadn't made the angels worthless.  Making both Angels and Demons bad left nothing to hope for.  I don't find it satisfying storywise so I kind of just ignore the whole thing.

[Frost]

I just watched this again on TNT or TBS (or somewhere).  I had tears running down my face during Dean's death scene.  It still hits me so hard!  And Sam wandering through the halls and then shutting off the lights in the bunker got me in the feels too.  Although whoever is responsible for Sam's grey wig should be drawn and quartered.  It's just as horrendous on rewatch as it was the first time!  It looks like an Einstein Halloween costume wig.

[Rushmoras]

Well, started the series somewhere perhaps in 2012 or 2013, and finished them today just now. I had a rough start with the first couple of episodes of the first season

Spoiler

mainly due to the bugs-galore coming out of the ground. That episode of season one freaked me out

and had to restart watching, but eventually it clicked. Well, fast forward to now, and... well... why did they needed episode 20, when episode 19 was a good send off into the sunset for the Winchesters I have no idea. It's not that I hated it, it just felt, that the 5-minute-ending portion of episode 19 was the 25 minute ending portion of the final episode; it felt redundant.

Spoiler

Not to mention that I actually thought "Why don't you just holla-at-Jack? Surely, he can magically heal your wounds and restore your stamina? No? You just going to die? Okey, then...". And, yes, Jack did say that he's going to be hands-off kinda God and that humanity must believe in itself, but, come'on. Are those couple of seasons fighting together evil incarnates mean nothing?

Anyways... I rate the entire thing 7.5/10. Had its ups and downs, mostly ups. Doubt that I'll be rewatching the series (its' just too massive

Spoiler

[maybe from the season where Castiel shows up... maybe]

).

[FlickChick]

Hi There! Great picture of Kiefer!! Yum, yum. I'm just past the middle of a re-watch of 24 on Hulu. That series was absolutely fabulous!  But I digress..

Many here had the same opinion of the end of the series - that E19 could have served as a fine ending of the series. A few things happened. The final episode was originally going to go out with more of a bang except for Covid which limited their plans. But it is also believed that the showrunner Dabb wanted to make sure that he killed off the main characters. Unfortunately, instead of doing a Butch and Sundance ending that has been talked about by both Sam and Dean throughout the series, he came up with this mess. So Dabb took the longest running American genre series and gave it a forgettable (or irritating, depending on who you ask) finale. Too bad! I continue to re-watch and enjoy my favorite episodes and just forget about how it all turned out.