[Big Little Book Talk]

10 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Questions for book people: Is there any explanation for why Madeline and Renata are so at odds st the beginning? Were they friends that went sour?

Also, did you get any backstory on Jane's family? What did she tell them about Ziggy? (Assuming she hadn't told anyone about the rape before Madeline, as on the show.)

I completely forgot about that, but there's a ton of backstory about Jane's family in the book. She has a very loving and involved mom, dad and brother, and a long scene where Madeline and Jane's mom meet and Madeline learns a lot about Jane. The family's guess about Ziggy is that Jane's ex-boyfriend Zach, who broke up with her before spending a few months in Europe, was really the father. Jane always says that's not the case, but her mother and family notice that she became a completely different person around the time of getting pregnant which was immediately after the breakup, and Madeline sees a photo of Jane before the rape and is shocked by how different she appears. Jane's brother is a fan of Bob Marley so volunteered Ziggy for the name, but it's kind of not the best one to choose if you're trying to convince the world it's definitely not your ex Zach's child, perhaps? 

The Jane HBO character is less multi-dimensional. Maybe they thought it would be more believable that these affluent women would look after her and take her into the fold only if she were alone in the world, but it robbed the character of a lot of nuance. 

I'm not sure I'll ever follow the decision to leave certain things out that had such payoff to replace it with affair mumbo jumbo that went nowhere and served no purpose.

eta: sorry for the repeats, chocolatine got it!

[Big Little Book Talk]

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I didn't like the subplot of Maddie cheating on Ed either. Totally unnecessary filler on the show. And the Avenue Q thing never happened in the book either. Also, a lot of people were saying it seemed too much of a coincidence that Perry turned out to be Jane's rapist. But the book explains it by saying that Jane remembered, that night, seeing a flyer for real estate at that beach, and Perry telling her he was thinking of buying a house there. So she ended up moving there because subconsciously she wanted to find him and confront him.

The unfolding and final Perry scenes were so lackluster on tv. Instead of tension and a series of revelations, we just got him King Kong-ing out to the patio and randomly smashing at women or throwing them aside. One of the most powerful parts in the book reveal was Jane's exclamation followed by Perry's "It didn't mean anything," and the moments right after that. The psychological implications are what made the scene hefty, not the brute force of his violence or that it was wildly indiscriminate. The whole ending was just so truncated and instead we got a super duper day at the beach and bookended Rolling Stones?!

It wasn't like they didn't have the time either, they just decided to give Zoe a chance to sing, and then Adam Scott a chance to lip sync, and for Adam and Nathan to do another stupid chicken dance and the 25 stares at Madeline from wife of affair guy. Not a good use of the last hour...

[Big Little Book Talk]

I just started watching the show 2 wks ago and then decided to start the book on Thursday! It definitely sucked me in, which really surprised me, but it sounds like her other novels don't pack as much of a punch which is too bad because I was excited to start another. I'm with the camp that prefers the book, and really doesn't appreciate the addition of all of the Reese subplots. Given how involved she is, it just feels gratuitous and like it's in her contract to have so much screen time. It was really surprising to read Madeline and still imagine Reese, but a much more likable character all around. I'm not sure if the DV stuff is better or clearer in the book or not, it still feels superficial in some respects?

Adam Scott is a great actor, but again, the difference between this central couple in the book versus the show is off-putting to me now. The actor who really isn't working for me, pre or post read, is Shailene. I don't find that she blends into roles very well at all. During Snowden all I saw was a wig, and now all I see is Shailene, tortured, single mother. She's so dissimilar to the book's Jane too that it doesn't help me to understand the casting any better. On the one hand, I'm glad they didn't go for an It Girl of the moment, but there are definitely better fits, just without the name recognition (which I prefer, but given it's HBO, I suppose that's just not possible...?).

Things really do tie up into a bit of a lazy, neat knot there at the end, so I'm very curious to see how the TV version goes!!

[Difficult People - General Discussion]

13 hours ago, Mumbles said:

Old-timey people are a real thing and are as annoying as hell:

http://www.thisvictorianlife.com/blog/victoria-bc-canada-downs-and-ups-on-an-anniversary-trip-or-how-we-were-denied-entrance-to-victorias-most-famous-garden-for-dressing-too-decently-yet-still-managed-to-find-many-lovely-flowers-in-much-better-places

Omg, these people live down the street from me, no joke. I walk by their house all the time, but didn't realize it was them. It was front page news here when they were denied access to Butchart Gardens! I didn't read the article because I just thought it was hilarious that it was the paper that week. I didn't realize they had a whole full-time Victorian thing going on because, honestly, this town is full of pretension and generally foolery, and there are days where "everyone" goes out in Victorian garb. I used to work at a consignment shop downtown that would have all sorts of things specific to the day of Victorian dress (I'm sure it has a name...), though I worked there before hipsters and steampunk, which are huge here too. Basically the entire town is full of "special" artists and humans. If anyone is familiar with art school, or just the concept, picture no one graduating and then you have a whole town overrun with precious people, who actually make this Old Timey couple pale in comparison. At least they're putting in some work with their experiment, which is more than I gave them credit for! I shop at the same store they do primarily and I don't remember seeing much of them (the store is pretty small, so it would be pretty much impossible to miss them), but then again, if I see someone fully dressed in costume, I just assume it's parade time again (we have so, so many, but the Pet Parade is the only one I get into) or any person living here, sigh... well, now I have some more insight into why I love this show so much, sort of like how I have to mainline Seinfeld occasionally, and other shows to buff up my Eastern roots and because sarcasm is a largely failed and misunderstood concept here.

Now I really want Julie and Billy to come visit. First of all, no one would know who they are - it was a TV-free zone for ages before Hulu or cord-cutting existed, and I'm possibly the only DP watcher in the tri-town area - and it would be seasons' worth of ideas! They could just transport the concepts to the NY background, or they could do an actual reality show of spending a few weeks here, like an insane, brain-breaking version of Frontier House where all they do is react and comment on simply staying, eating and shopping. I literally need to see Julie and Billy react to our food coop now, it would be the most amazing thing that could be/happen to me/happen here!

[The Fall - General Discussion]

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Yes, the hair was bugging me the whole time. We saw that Stella has good taste. Her home was beautiful and her wardrobe was great, but OMG the brassy drug store do-it-yourself dye job. Was the investigation really so time-consuming that she couldn't make an appointment at a salon and take some files or her laptop with her to work on while she was getting her hair done? Busy working women do it all the time.

Stella's hair bothered me as well, but mostly because she managed to maintain the exact same part and amount and quality of curls day-to-day, all day/night at work, and even after she was beaten into a husk and landed at the hospital. While her face was split open and weeping, not a curl was fully deconstructed.

However, (and I'm outing myself as a hair geek, so forgive me) I noticed she had about 2-3x more hair that Gillian Anderson has had as Stella previously, and in other roles, so it was clear that she had extensions, clip-ins, or other various extra hair right away. Unfortunately this trend is everywhere, and they love it for "ageing" actresses because it can make them appear more youthful.

My guess on the hair color is that, generally speaking, when there is a bunch of purchased "blonde" hair involved (which is Asian hair 98% of the time, & bleached from its natural black, and cannot physically be lightened beyond yellow), the actor's hair has to match that not-quite-natural-for-European-hair color as well, and is toned more yellow. For anyone who's ever wondered, IRL, at very wealthy blondes and why their hair often looks like straw and/or a strangely un-toned yellow, it's because purchased hair is a coarser, much-darker product that is processed with the most extreme bleach and ammonia, is extremely damaged, and can never appear a neutral hue because of starting from such a natural, dark shade. Apologies if anyone has nodded off...!

[The Fall - General Discussion]

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The Telegraph's recap of the finale included this:

"Spector was confirmed to be genuinely suffering amnesia and thus unable to recall the Belfast Strangler killings (though he had started to remember being shot and Gibson’s cry that the police were 'losing him')."

I gotta say, that was not my takeaway at all. Did you guys think his amnesia was real? The Telegraph speculated that Spector being made aware that he was a killer was what spurred his suicide, basically out of shame and regret.

I'm very impressed with the various theories being floated in this thread. As I've read one and thought "hmmm... that's very interesting," then another is posted that is equally compelling and so on. I've wondered if the writers had as clear a motivation in mind as people here have managed to splice together? But no, The Telegraph's opinion isn't my takeaway either. Are they generally a reliable source with recaps? Do they do any interviews or coverage with writers or showrunners? I really have no idea. Their synopsis sounds more like someone watched most of it on FF, missed a lot of scenes and dialogue, and then rushed to turn the piece in (i.e., blew off their homework). It's like one of those Netflix-gone-wrong spoilers/totally-incorrect episode descriptions that sometimes happen. 

[The Fall - General Discussion]

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I just binged the whole season in one day. I love this show! I was glad that Paul's stalking/obsessing/women murdering days were done. Those were the most boring parts of the previous seasons to me. Watching him try to game the system for the trial was more interesting, even though he's so repulsive. I hated that his nurse fell under his thrall. Remember when Stella purposely picked an officer who was his type to question him? I would think she would tell the hospital to get a nurse against type assigned to him. A 35-year old, 240-pound male nurse would have been ideal. 

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I watched 5&6 consecutively, so I may not have separated out in my head which episode contained which scenes, but I was quite satisfied with Spector doing himself in. I don't know enough about systems like that to know whether it was abnormal for Paul to have been able to move around so freely after the violence in the interrogation room, but my thought at the time was that they were certainly NOT taking enough precautions! ...

There were a few creaks in the scripting. The solicitor was conveniently passive when he would have been saying, "Nope! Nope! We're done!" long before. Katie was abnormally receptive to Stella's pep talk in the last ep. I did like the clever bits, though, like them going back and finding a case before 6 years and springing it on him. And subtle things, like Paul hearing how Mike twisted his sister's arm, and using that technique to incapacitate Tom. Or the throughline of men's anger and women's anger as a motif. 

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I did actually notice the cracks in Spector's story (prior to his violent outburst) - he was claiming that he had "lost" his memories of only the last six (I think) years - yet he then claimed that he had no memory of his life as a teenager. And then he started claiming memories of events in the supposed "lost" years (remembering Stella's words). But as soon as he assaulted Stella, you'd think he'd be treated with greater security, but apparently Wallander is just so self confident that he's still allowed to wonder freely after he'd beat up Stella (and DS Merlin) - it's amazing the guy didn't get beat up more often. And just how was Spector allowed to wonder so freely after the riot? I can accept that he might be able to use the distraction to get out from under observation, but you'd think once Spector's "friend" was subdued, the staff would immediately go back to "their" patient and the alert would be raised. I really hope IRL such facilities are more secure.

I sort of dragged my way through season 2 and only started 3 because I'm down with a sinus infection, but I'll be damned if I wasn't mesmerized from the first moment! This was a true slow-burn-to-the-final-eps done in a pretty graceful way since there were only the 6. This was something so well executed because of the binge capability, so the fear of Paul returning to consciousness, then himself, felt very real to me and the terror was just as real as if he'd been strangling away each episode.

Where things suffered, jmho, were in the lapses in reality (though I'm not familiar with Irish law/hospitalization of criminals/instutionalizing criminals, etc.) around the choice of nurse, the lack of security at the beginning and most certainly when he was returned after nearly killing an officer and immediately un-handcuffed as soon as he was brought inside. It seems realistic that nowhere else in the world other than the US are people as often restrained, in criminal circumstances or psychiatric, but still unlikely that he would have just been released like a dog off his leash when re-entering the unit. And again, I can't speak to how the Irish justice system works, but generally there is zero shit tolerated from a prisoner whose many crimes include repeated assaults on officers and just generally terrorizing them at every given turn. So, even if things are a bit more lax there, wouldn't the particular nature of his latest attacks warrant a different degree of restriction? The nurse choice was clearly just there to remind us of the terror that might come and that we'd visited for 2 seasons already, so I'm willing to overlook that it was pretty clumsy. From the moment he began waking and grabbed her with the Paul death grip, I knew she was lost. It felt like another moment where a woman freezes in order to save her life, just in a more protracted way.

I can't differentiate eps 5 or 6 either, but I sat up and lost my breath and spent about 10 minutes doing that stupid Home Alone face when Paul turned to punch Stella. And the cracked arm... effective. I'm glad Stella got Dr. Richard Coyle again and spent some time with him just chatting, a nice circle there.

Regarding the cracks in Paul's amnesia... who decided it was a 6-yr-only block? Did Paul really volunteer such a specific time frame? If so, what an absolute idiotic move. Surely no proper psychopath would make such a blatant error, especially given his proclivity for planning, mapping things out, and having spent a lifetime successfully carrying out crimes basically uninterrupted. It was convenient and allowed for an interesting story line, but was bizarrely specific.

What was the purpose of Paul not remembering his son? I couldn't figure out if it was simply the time frame again or if it was meant to be more substantial in terms of another fatherless son...

One other curiosity, which falls again under the is-this-really-how-the-system-functions?? title I guess: why did neither the hospital nor psych unit staff consider Paul's training and background in their questions and assessments? Maybe the neuro-psychiatrist wouldn't have been as interested, but it was very odd that, at the staff meeting intro where Paul's case history, etc. were discussed, Wallander made no mention of the fact that Paul likely had more training than most of the staff he would be surrounded by, and would certainly be a very different patient in terms of intellect & training than those he was surrounded by. There were several discussions about his possible "malingering" but nothing expressed about the danger of someone from within the fold (at least educationally, even if a bereavement counselor's day-to-day is very different from psych unit staff) now being the patient. And no extra concern about his amnesia in regard to his work history either. Odd.

Wallander: heehee!

[Difficult People - General Discussion]

I was in hysterics 5 mins into the latest ep. I expected good things when it opened on Kevin Spacey jokes, but when Billy took it to a full-on HoC' impression, I had to rewatch it several times because I kept screaming like Julie (who was screaming like Lucille Bluth whenever she sees Gene Parmesan)! And they immediately went to Matthew getting slapped down hard by Lola (does she have the best lines or what?) who was killing as usual. That entire scene was so tight, someone is really on the ball these past 2 eps writing the multi-character scenes instead of just having Julie and Billy talking against the background of them. And Lola, who's maybe replaced Denise?, makes more sense in the cast. Loved the shout outs to Merv Griffin, teletubbies, Rumsfeld, and Brit Brit's "You'd better weeerrrkkkk!" punctuated by Matthew falling to the floor: me likey.

The party was great too with the Tony Bennett/Gaga rant, Matthew at the salon, and a Victoria Jackson burn - nice! I'm glad Arthur got a decent amount of screen time this ep and his scenes at the bachelorette party and with creeper writer were really funny. 

Much better use of Amy Sedaris this time around too. Not sure how to feel about Julianne Moore... she's been one of the better cameos, but the second scene was possibly overkill. It's tough to work in those really famous types without losing the thread of what's going on in the show. I'd love to know hear more about how Billy feels about Kevin Spacey actually! 

[Difficult People - General Discussion]

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Sasha Grey played herself for a few episodes in Entourage as Vinny's gf, but of course he couldn't handle it because he's a child. It was a trite and predictable plot. I actually think she's a good actor. So the joke was that she was a famous porn star, but doing Entourage was a huge step down and degrading. 

That was my takeaway without the details, haha, suck it HBO! Her affect seemed pretty flat in the scenes they show in the HBO promo video, but it was the 'dreaming of a world where a man who's been violent with women can bounce back and have a full career' that left me speechless. Was she one of Charlie Sheen's "goddesses" I wonder?

Ahhh, Joel McHale, that tall drink of well-toned (cannibal) water - it was good to see him again.

I forgot that this episode blew my mind just by mentioning Bonnie Hunt! I wish she would make an appearance. Loved the digs by Lola at Billy needing a better-fitting blouse and wishing Matthew had been on flight 93. Loved the sick burns they laid on AHS & Ryan Murphy too... priceless!

[Difficult People - General Discussion]

5 hours ago, ganesh said:

#Cats had a lot of good zingers. For the Sasha Grey/Entourage crack alone it was worth it. And Method Man cracks me up. 

The montage of them pitching was hilarious. 

I laughed hard at the Entourage crack only because I consider a never-ending source of hilarity, but I'm not familiar with Sasha Grey or what the joke was specific to. After taking a look today, I found this gem, which I thought was possibly a joke, but the HBO emblem is there throughout, so I'm assuming it's the real deal. The last 30 seconds of the piece is worth the watch, wtf is she talking about?!

[Season Two: All Episodes]

I got hooked into this season immediately. I couldn't stop watching it either, I stayed up the entire night to finish it! Anyway, it was great because it was new content (as far as the series is concerned) so I was able to view it with fresh eyes and the things that annoyed me about season 1 were not a problem because I stopped comparing the detectives to their earlier incarnations -- and really, really liked both actors so much in the roles.

The plot definitely did a whole lot of meandering and really was looking like the proverbial kitchen sink by the end, but it was also so elaborate, and, at times bizarre, that I couldn't look away. Yes, Karl's past and home life have been covered to the point where they need to be a in a cart with "bring out your dead" carved into it. That whole bit had me thinking of Monty Python though, so that gave me a little laugh.

The casting was a veritable who's who of everyone. As I mentioned in another thread, I was thrilled to bits to see Lester from The Wire, and then did a second "Huh??" when Paul Schneider showed up! He was in and out with the accent though, which is how I knew immediately that this was the same guy from Parks and Recreation -- now that blew my mind! The agent guy (whichever branch he was from, but the one who Karl thought tried to suffocate his family) was recognizable, but it took a little while to figure out he was the boyfriend from the second season of Happy Valley. And the sadistic doc was definitely familiar, though I'm not sure from where?

I'm not 100% on what happened with everything actually. Why did they let Eryka go? Simply because she called about where they were being held? It's hard to imagine her getting a pass for bringing down a plane in a terrorist act. I'm not sure if Elise's love for Eryka really made any sense, or if they just wanted to a new take on the femme fatale? As everything was coming to a close, I really expected to find Karl walking into his house only to find that the nanny had eliminated the family and Brian (Family Guy shout out??), but instead we got Elise's gross eye. It makes sense that TT is still bopping around and creating some prison followers given that he stays close in the source material, and perhaps that will all continue in a season 3 if there is one? Why Karl's wife didn't go to the police about her and instead just told her she needed help is another matter. She knows where you live dumdum, and you have a house full of tiny children! I wish we'd gotten some closure on what happened to the little girl though. It was mentioned that baddad was the stepfather, which begs the question of why she wasn't released to the father, but I guess we'll never know.

[Here there be SPOILERS for S5.]

When is season 6 scheduled for release, 2017? Does anyone know which month or season it is released in France? I sort of wish I hadn't started watching until it was out because the ending of this season is a bit much to wait out.

I'm torn as to how I feel about the show overall. I started it less than a week ago, and plowed through all 5 seasons with barely a rest, but it doesn't hold up like The Wire for me. There are similarities, but The Wire always accomplished its stories with quite a bit of subtlety, with attention spread out among many of the characters, and always with an eye toward realistic development. Spiral let me down with some of its "drama" this season - it made quick, cheap turns (and I'm not even thinking of Pierre). The Wire never would have had the pregnant woman running full force at a woman with a box cutter sticking out, and they would have put a tracker in a bag of real money (and had all exits covered from the drop-off scene) instead of hoping the sociopathic gang wouldn't kill the child after finding a bag of mostly paper. You don't really have to pay the ransom, but you do set it up so that you appear to and then make certain they can't go anywhere with it. Make them think they've gotten away with it, then strike -- that's the Wire way!

I guess there's enough of the show that I really love that I wish they would tighten up the character's and story lines. For instance, a woman drinking and smoking and working almost 24/7 with a placental abruption in her first trimester would not make it to the second trimester without major intervention. And wouldn't Gilou be fired for his 100th mistake that cost someone their life or a case?! I'm glad Tintin was around more and Laure finally let go whatever it was she was holding against him. 

The whole Jaulin plot was very odd. Even though he wasn't his wife and daughter's murderer, why was everyone walking on eggshells (and Roban essentially reprimanded) around him because he was only a wife beater and only caused the death of his lawyer? That's not innocent nor appropriate for the caretaker of a small child! The guy's entire reasoning for why he had ("understandably"???) killed Pierre, was that he never should have been in custody. Sorry, but as someone who thinks there are far too many people in prison, there was nothing crazy about him waiting there until more of the case was known, and certainly you don't get a pass for murder (even if he didn't pull the trigger, it was still all him) because you simply won't stand for being in jail. That's nuts! And why his son was happily reunited made no sense as an end point. He was still violent, unstable, filming porn, living in a hotel, made a habit of stealing money from his estranged wife, had killed someone more-or-less, and acted like a wronged brat throughout.

I know I'm hard on the show, but season 4 holds up better really jmho.

Speaking of The Wire & France, I just started season 2 of The Tunnel and did a true Scooby-doo "Huh?" at seeing none other than Lester!?!?!?!

[Series 4: State of Terror]

On 5/26/2015 at 9:44 AM, seamusk said:

I just finished season 4. Another great season. I rarely anticipate twists. I kind of prefer to keep myself in the dark. But in a rare moment of foresight I realized around episode 10 Sami was a goner. Just the whole love triangle set up I guess. I don't know. I didn't even mind that much though I liked him. And he did finally stand up for Laure to the boss who clearly sucked and was supposed to.

 

The revolutionaries/immigrant rights theme really intrigued me. You see american police shows try to cover protest groups and they almost always have zero idea. You either get the ridiculously resourceful types that you find on 24, or some stupid portrayal of naivety (basically a narrative driven by the writers own naivety or prejudices). Oh and they always have a single leader. We saw the leadership thing here but in a more realistic sense. I've been in a number of movements and the weird dynamic between the radical left non-violent folks and Thomas' group was striking. The level of violence that Thomas' group was willing to go is extremely rare in American leftist groups but the dynamic between the main radicals (who protested and sued and squatted) and the fringe radicals was really well done. The posting of the pics online was stupid, but the assault on the squat was just as stupid and I was torn between our protagonists and the squat mates. In real life I would have rooted for the squat mates the whole way (except for Thomas's group). 

 

This season, I felt like Pierre and Roban were completely isolated from Laure's team which I didn't love. But the storylines were all mostly good so it wasn't totally boring. I like the scenes in the projects. Remind me a fair bit of the Wire. And I like that on this show, while i'm sure it's not perfect, the police work mostly makes good sense. And nobody is a ridiculous super hacker who can somehow do things that aren't even possible on laptop computers. Just saying. This is great television.

Poor Samy (and the viewers), RIP his hotness... I was quite surprised to see him return since it appeared that his existence had just been dropped, and I figured the show was mostly wiping the slate clean at the end of each season without much exposition. I cringed though when Laure realized he was dead, because now we're going to have a whole new set of personal issues stemming from the fact that she never said "yes" to him and he died while she waited out her decision. A little too dramatic for my taste. And poor Tintin this season. I liked that he received more screen time, but didn't like the story that he was unfit for duty because he was suffering some lingering ptsd or taking medication. He did beat the guy in the back of the car the one time, though I didn't have a great amount of sympathy for someone who'd just spent a few days torturing and eventually killing someone in the woods). It was sloppy writing that Tintin was compromising the team though, even on his worst day he did far less damage than Gilou on one of his many "bad" days. And since when is the team so put out because an ambulance had to be called -- these are the very same people who beat an epileptic into a grand seizure and then proceeded to beat him in the hospital and after he was released?!

ITA with your assessment of the nuance in the portrayal of the revolutionary/immigrant groups, Seamusk. It's rarely done so well, and I was genuinely relieved when the original group made it out unscathed and with new civil and citizenship rights. Every one of the violent turds really showed themselves to be nothing more than an unoriginal coward. As aggravating as Sophie was, Thomas proved himself to be an absolute rat when he threw his phone in the river after she'd carried out the plan on her own. Maybe Spiral will bring back Thomas for a helping of revenge next season? I'd enjoy that. The good ole' misogyny of the show was again present, even within the ranks of the extremists, but I guess you sign up for all of it when you dump your dying friend in the woods (alive) to rot.

It was a nice break to venture beyond the ranks of murdered women, it really was. Hope they continue to branch out from ultra murder-y sadism. And not a mention of even 1 case of incest either, hurrah! Roban's story took sort of a left turn with the Freemasons, but I guess we'll see how that plays out... looked like he missed his chance with his secretary though. Pierre was irritating through and through this season. He was not a better person than Karlsson, but he was following that whole "scapegoat the woman" path that is the laziest thing in the world, so he could recapture his glory.

I'm glad there are no superhackers too!

[Series 3: The Butcher of La Villette]

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For series three, my money's on the intern.  

Also, I've had a ridiculous crush on Gilou since the very beginning. So there's that.

I was convinced it was the intern as well! He certainly met a sad end, didn't he? Ahhh, Gilou drives me nuts and I can't figure out why he's around... he's not actually good at any part of the job. He can't listen (constantly turns witnesses away when they come to give vital info), can't deduce (never seems to do much other than charge when told), can't shoot (unless it's bystanders, and doesn't own up to it), and can't run (had a heart attack(?) in that last sprint, though he was up and on the job the following day like nothing had happened whatsoever), and can't even take a report (wanted a promotion so badly he decided to ignore a missing person and do zero about it while she was being murdered). His main traits are a disdain for most women and especially "whores" (whom he seeks out regularly), drinking heavily, and his codependent thing with Laure. She, at least, appears to have some finesse with the job.

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MHz is a great station.

I just found out about MHz a few weeks ago and have literally been turning on the dvr only to erase whatever garbage is on standard TV; it has been MHz-only here, room to room, device to device.

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As a lover of this basic genre, I do get womyn dying an absolutely horrific death fatigue though. This season did it to me a bit. I think I might need to watch some lighter television for a bit. Or less television but then i'm currently obsessed with scandinavian crime novels so there is that.

Word on the w.d.a.a.h.d.f.. This show has a particular way with all female characters essentially being victimized in some very shitty way even if they aren't the targets of a rape, murder or attempted rape or murder. And then there was divorce-lady, who needed custody and divorce help so she could be with her true love, her father. There are many plot lines so far devoted to fathers "consensually" (if that exists) having sex with their daughters, and then the many more plot lines of fathers raping their daughters. What the hell is going on people? And why is all dealt with in the courts with all of the passion of a parking ticket?!

Speaking of which, what do the French police have against victims of human trafficking, or just women forced into prostitution?! Threatening abused, violated and maligned women with jail time or worse is just not cool Laure, not cool at all. 

So, Karlsson is becoming a personal favorite, and I wholeheartedly enjoyed her moment of mutual respect in the hallway with Laure, her sacrifice for Pierre, and the long-awaited kiss between the two of them as she was headed back to that smokey-cuff-link-of-a-human-being Szabo.

It was so odd to find this series had an additional 4 episodes, and I wondered how it was going to change the flow. All in all, it held up quite well, but the mayoral investigation was really not that fascinating and took up a lot of (unresolved) screen time. Roban is Andy Warhol (such a good call)!!! I actually bought into Laure's relationship, though the start of it was previous sexual harassment, which is not generally a big turn on... 

Since I thought "the Mexican" was innocent for the first few eps, I was mostly appalled at the police beating an epileptic - in and out of the hospital - it was not a good look. But, he was an insanely creepy character who was utterly terrifying practically every moment he was onscreen! Season 3 really brought the goods. I'm not sure if there were years in between 1,2 and then the longer season 3, or what happened, but it felt like there was a good deal more developed.

[Series 2: Barbecue]

But Arnaud is actually this guy

And then the thing that cracked me up was a shot of the gorgeous Caroline Proust's hand in one of the show's scenes, because I immediately shouted "man hands" (Seinfeld) when I saw it! At first I thought it was a stunt hand, but I'm pretty sure it's her hand based on the whole scene.

 

[Series 2: Barbecue]

I've started season 3 but don't want to get spoiled by posting there just yet! One thing that has really stood out to me is how much a few of the actors look actor's I've seen in US shows. Karlsson reminds me of Jessica Hamby (even starting out as a light red and transitioning into darker red). Her mannerisms remind me of Hamby in Daredevil too!

And Pierre reminds me a lot of Mariska Hargitay's RL husband, L&O staple Peter Hermann 

And to make things super confusing, I thought Arnaud Ledoré was played an actor from Les Revenants, but it's actually the actor who played Simon in the US version.

(I think this needs to be 2 posts...)

[Series 2: Barbecue]

Spiral, Saison 2: Everyone goes to the salon!

Enjoyed this one more than the first season, but am now wondering if Karlsson's objective last season was simply to narrow her field of competition by making certain her boss would not become a lawyer again... does anyone else have a clear reading on this? I was absolutely shocked that she didn't reveal Samy after overhearing the mention of an embedded cop. They seem to write her all over the place though. They wedged a scene in where we see her arrive home from a huge shopping trip, and there are references to her love of all things money, but then she appears to motivated by a desire for true justice. It's not that a person can't be many things, it just feels like they can't quite make up their mind(s). I felt terribly for her when she had to bed her disgusting old boss! I truly hope the sexism depicted on Spiral is for drama's sake some of the time, because there is a legitimate problem that needs UN intervention otherwise. It was plum crazy that Karlsson was the one to show, in court, that the husband has knocked his wife into near brain death from behind! Wouldn't that be the job of forensics or the "state"? It was crazy when the court room gasped as though this was the first piece of real evidence that she was more-or-less murdered. I didn't care for the judges' questions like, "if he were really a wife beater, why weren't there locks on the bedroom door?!" And the jackass who later mentioned slapping his wife only to have Pierre quickly find out that she had been beaten (and raped?) within an inch of her life, egads... 98% of Spiral's characters are super casual about women being beaten and murdered by domestic partners, and the burden is always on the dead, or half-dead, defendant.

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I know nothing about French life really, let alone criminal life, so how realistic some of this is I don't know. But I am enjoying sort of getting a glimpse into their criminal justice system. I'm sure it's tv real, as in not really real, but it's still a sort of glimpse. I watched the Missing and it interests me how the magistrate gets involved in questions suspects so early on. I know that's their role in France, but it's so unique from what the US criminal justice system so I find it intriguing.

The magistrate's role in crime is almost unbelievable. Sometimes it seems useful and at other times it leaves me thinking how well the American justice system is designed (and that is not a feeling that is familiar to me). What on earth is with naming witnesses publicly and then telling them there's no such thing as protection?! Or, whatever it was that happened with the prison guy who eventually ruined Samy's cover? I sort of understood the judge saying they couldn't do anything since the team was in Spain, but they sure as hell didn't need to let the ex-con wander in the door and inform about the informant, especially to save the life of a cop! It was just bonkers that he wasn't at least pulled aside before getting to the door and held until the freaking operation was over! The judge's role feels a lot like the DA's role or IA in US crime shows, where someone who really doesn't know how the whole thing works calls the shots in sometimes-inexplicable ways, but usually it's just a dramatic crutch - I don't get that feeling here.
 

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 was a bit dis-lodged by the changes for Laure this season. I mean, I get that they were trying to evolve her character but some of it seemed so out of the blue to me. Not the appearance. I get that. Time has passed, her life has changed some, etc... I think it all worked in the end but it felt a bit forced in the first half of the season to me.

The part where she is sent to a psychiatrist and divulges that she's been in a relationship for 10 years with an older doctor was quite a surprise... Since last season Laure was often the cute party girl as soon as work ended, it didn't feel particularly believable. 

[Series 1: Network of Corruption]

Speaking of the Netflix cues that finally wear one down... I finally watched s1 of Spiral and it was less gripping than I expected! Sounds like I'm in the minority with that opinion, but I'm glad there's a thread to break things down and read other musings. The destruction of the documents and tape by karlsson threw me for a loop. It looked as if it were some part of her agreement to start up with Laborde, but I'm curious about the other theory here, and hope more info will be divulged as the series continues... I just love when you start a show very late and then have seasons at your disposal!

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It's a really, really great show. Despite being a law drama with mysteries and murder plots and the whole shebang it's very much a character driven show as opposed to its American counterparts. It's fascinating how all these people - cops, judges, lawyers - work together. Can't say I have a crush on Gilou, though! Clément is a looker, but difficult to have a crush on. I like the general absence of sex appeal. We get enough of that anyway.

I'm already half-way through season 2 but I daren't go into the thread to post anything until I've finished the whole thing. I usually have a hard time binge watching non-English (or my own language - swedish) speaking shows but when an episode of Spiral ends I just gotta see the next.

It definitely rang some Law and Order bells with me, which I can't say I cared for, but I'm still hoping for some redemption. Speaking of Sweden, I've been completely immersed in a few Danish shows and, most recently, 3 seasons of Beck, and found the switch to a French series jolting! I loved s1 of Les Revenants, but Spiral feels very dated and some of the characters too 1-dimensional for me, but I'm also trying to figure out how much is (TV) culture shock? I found myself missing the heavy social drinking of Denmark and Sweden when coke-cop continued to snort his way through the season with few (if any) redeeming qualities. And the misogyny, sweet Jesus, in truly a categorical disaster in Spiral, more so than anything I've seen so far. Old Judge creeps me out intensely, and I was sorry to see him drive the young mother back into addiction and suicide -- though the hilarity of his taking the diary home to read in an entirely glass/unsecured home and then to leave it while he wandered upstairs was so bizarre that it caused me to laugh quite a bit. His gross questioning of the rape victim, and the cops playing hump-the-dummy as they hauled it in for the re-enactment, has just caused me to worry about the French justice system - and wonder why sexual harassment and general disgustingness is tolerated among all our characters.

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What happened to the sisters was so terrible, and the ending was just heartbreaking for the father.  Damn.

That poor, poor family... I'm sure it was supposed to be some sort of message of peace that the mother was able to put that assassin out of business, but I seriously thought the father would just drop dead of a heart attack from sheer heartbreak over losing, now, every single person whom he loved. Just so gd brutal.

[S01.E06: Samson and Delilah]

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So....are we just to assume that Stone gave up while chasing Duane Reed at the end of the last episode and went home?

Yeah, I was definitely surprised that this episode didn't open on that (apparent) cliffhanger from last week. It was especially humorous given that Stone was basically risking his life to track the guy down, find him at work, break up his game and basically to call him out as a witness in front of his friends, and then to chase him through unfamiliar territory like a dope... only to give up once he made it into the tunnel and then go home? The investigating skills of the police and lawyers here are a little like a game of musical chairs, where they just drop whatever they were doing and go into some kind of fugue state and never pick the threads up again.

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Was it coke/crack Freddie & co were smoking or heroin? I keep seeing people reference coke/crack but I think it was heroin. They all looked way more glazed over/zonked out than I'd think a cocaine high would give you. I wish Nas wouldn't have smoked it, whatever it was.

I watched Intervention at some point after this episode and wondered if we were supposed to think they were smoking meth, because apparently all drugs look the same now...? The meaningfulness of watching Naz choose the drugs by the end was sort of blunted by the fact that it seemed like if 3 or 4 guys in a tiny, mostly-airtight prison cell were all smoking it - and how much of the smoke just went into the room versus what little went into the straw/pipe? thing (unless I'm missing something) - it would be one hell of a contact high no matter what, hour after hour and day after day. 

[S01.E06: Samson and Delilah]

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Plus, I didn't understand why she would go to the door without her money if she were expecting a food delivery.

She seemed really happy when the doorbell rang, so I figured she was thinking perhaps her boyfriend had returned? She genuinely didn't seem to want Stone to come over. It is weird that she wasn't more terrified to answer the door given that mortuary guy had her card though.

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Does anybody else feel bad for that poor cat, locked up in the room with no interaction?  I know that Stone is being as affectionate as he can but I can't help but feel for the poor thing.

Whomever is doing the writing hasn't spent much time around a cat! After the ordeal of being locked out and hungry, and then at the shelter, and then put in the room with the door closed, it would have been howling and terrified. It's hilarious to me that after he puts food in, we immediately hear eating noises; he dumps several toys in and the cat immediately goes into play mode; and then tonight he shoves the clean litter in and we immediately hear the scratching of litter. So, I feel badly for kitty, but that kitty is a robot! 

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Oh, forgot to say - cleaning the cat litter box on the kitchen counter????

No one, not even hoarders! It was grotesque watching the used litter spill all over the counter among dishes! And why would a person with such allergies drag it into a main living area and put it up where their hands are used to get drink and food? Yech. 

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 Chinese herbal medicine to the rescue.

TCM to the rescue; as soon as I saw the herbs being mixed, I knew things were looking up. Not sure if they'd work at all with room temp or cold tap water though just stirred in though... guess tonight had as many odd errors as it did action for me. How did his new tattoo go unnoticed by counsel? I thought for sure we'd get a reaction shot. Naz is just a factory of bad ideas right now - and who gets a SIN tattoo across their fingers at the start of their trial when they're hoping to be acquitted?

Nice to see Evan R. Lawson as playing something other than a lovable, neutered terrier.

[Difficult People - General Discussion]

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The whole Showtime audition plot was kind of sitcommy, but the accent was hilarious.

This was a good one but it definitely felt like a mashup of a few other shows/episodes. The whole Showtime story reminded me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer's shoes and dental work win him a seat at the table with Mel Torme as a mentally handicapped guest of honor at some important charity dinner, and a little of a plot from Extras too. The whole concept of the reversed American-to-Aussie accent was freaking brilliant. Billy's search for his subtype was like watching another version of Happy Endings' "Ordinary, Extraordinary Love" but I still enjoyed it. I loved the see-saw, the 'Martin Sheen is cranky because he's forced to play a gay guy' line, and Billy's Gilmore Girls' shoutout. It was nice that Arthur was more than pure sidekick this time, getting mad, angry-sleep-cooking... or maybe he just got to be disagreeable? Regardless, I like it. I've come to the conclusion that Abby Elliott really irritates me, but the baby doll dress line was perfection, and that Julie's first outfit for the dinner was a baby doll dress too.

[Tunnel, Bridge, Ferry, or Canoe: Compare and Contrast]

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All these other shows - the main characters have these various quirks, which mostly seem too 'written', too obviously tacked on for the sake of easy drama. Like someone who starts wearing a beret because they think it will make them more interesting. Seems to me you could subtract these quirks from both detectives in The Tunnel and the story would be just as compelling.

River and Marcella are two that come to mind with slightly-different issues, but it's always the haunted detective, for one reason or another. I've been basically watching anything Danish or Swedish and there are some differences there, but they don't always make complete sense. You might like The Sandhamn Murders, as I've heard it compared to Midsomer. I found it entertaining and the only real puzzle is how certain people go on, year after year, witnessing or running into active murders and murder scenes without any concern about it or other people intervening to ask, "so what's with you and murders?!" I'm watching Beck now and wondering how much longer the overt sexist dialogue and situations can possibly continue, and the main detective is basically a total asshole most of the time, with no particular redeeming qualities. The police work is also insanely bad, at least among the secondary cops, to the point where they just stand there staring shrugging as criminals (right in front of them) participate in drive-by shootings, murders, etc. It's tough to find a middle ground sometimes. Borgen is a shining star among fantastic storytelling and little-or-no murdering. It's just extremely compelling in its humanity. But I'm so grateful for the variety, and that even what has become a bunch of overused cliches in the US is still told and shown differently elsewhere with at least a new background. There are also characters and series where there is a notable past, but the storytelling transcends the start point, which are the best imho, since authors have to create these characters from a place that resonates with or interests them.  

I laughed so hard at the beret bit because it's dead on, and there is no shortage of show runners doing very mediocre jobs with mediocre shows who throw the 'beret' of story lines or topical issues in and then want to talk about their depth and vision, blaaahhhh.

[Tunnel, Bridge, Ferry, or Canoe: Compare and Contrast]

I actually loved this last episode, partly for the deviations and then for the beautiful explosion scene that was just galling. But...

Spoiler

... James Frain!? That guy is always the villain, always! It's the most spoiler-ific job of casting possible. I don't mind since I'm not expecting too many surprises, but that would have been the end of the mystery for me if I was totally unfamiliar with the series. He's probably my favorite actor cast in that role, but he had the same resume in 2012 and his typecasting spans the TV globe. Such mixed feelings about this turn!

[Difficult People - General Discussion]

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Is anyone else watching the show? There's no episode threads.

I am (waves sleepily)! Is it just me or do Hulu shows just sort of not go that well with forums? As much as I like this show, Hulu has so little to offer in original programming that I tend to forget until Tues late night or Wed that Casual and DP were even available. Binge watching foreign stuff is my jam these days, and it may be affecting what little tolerance I had for weekly fare, but there's just something about the way it's all done that gives me light amnesia a little while after watching. Who knows?! But it sort of feels like if they were all available at once, there would be a huddle to discuss the season. Or maybe it's being discussed elsewhere? I'm always surprised at the forums that are missing for shows that seem to demand discussion though. 

[Tunnel, Bridge, Ferry, or Canoe: Compare and Contrast]

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She says they stayed away from making her character autistic.  

I think PBS is airing the dvd extras after each episode because I saw that interview too. It was a smart move to shift away from autism, imho, since the label has different connotations now than it did when the original was first conceived. For whatever reason, calling it autism or aspergers seems to allow pretty much everyone to have a certain amount of disdain for the character (in the show or as a viewer). And it presents a challenge with either naming it or setting up a checklist of situations to get the message across in a way that feels like overkill. There's already enough scene-to-scene replication: I winced when Elise changed her shirt in the middle of the office, since it was the same exact scene from both other versions, like so very many of the scenes, and it's feeling more like unwelcome déjà vu as it continues.

It's interesting that so many of the great male characters of books and series have so much crossover with these personality characteristics, but are instead lauded for their brilliance, semi-sociopathy, inability to commit, and single-mindedness in pursuit of their interests. I'm not sure so many of them would be hailed or beloved if each story began with letting us know they were neuro-atypical (in the form of a loaded label). I'm not sure if there is a bit of sexism in play naming Saga, etc. as autistic but not naming Martin something from the DSM-5 to describe his philandering, lack of connection to his children and in primary relationships, etc., or possibly it was to help the audience to sympathize with the Saga character...? It just feels like something to explain why this detective functions more like a stereotypical male in her job, which seems dated or unnecessary. 

The change appears to liberate the actress playing the role somewhat too, which is nice.