DeepRunner
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Posts posted by DeepRunner
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11 hours ago, fastiller said:
Deeo Runner, The High Kings?!! No effin' way!!! I went to secondary school w Martin Furey. His younger sister Aine and I were in the same year. Yoi know that the High Kings are touring all around the States this year?
Thanks and cool story, @Fastiller. Yeah, I was trying to find a song that summed-up saying goodbye, and that was the one that came to mind. I didn't know they were touring the US, but will check it out.
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From the top:
* Adios, John Reese. You were my favorite character. You were the one who started the series with Finch, although you were not his first "helper monkey." Through the years and seasons, The Man in the Suit was one of the coolest characters on the cool medium. You were Finch's best friend, to the very end, and the good soldier. I knew Reese would die, but I didn't expect him to be the only one, so, I guess I can say, for the purpose of this, the final episode, he alone died. But he didn't necessarily die alone. He died for his friend.
* Shaw saved Lionel and killed Blackwell. Her dialogue with Blackwell was perfect. "They wouldn't want you to kill me." "You're right, but they're all dead." Two in the chest. I will miss Shaw. But, since the door is open more than a crack for PoI (ok, it's freakin' way wide open) to continue in some form, maybe it won't be long before we see Shaw again
* Fusco lived. I thought he was done for when Blackwell stabbed him. Good to see Fusco living. With the dog. Maybe. If Shaw let's him.
* Finch tried to sacrifice himself to save Reese, and I couldn't help but wonder if, in terms of the character, it was a small way for Harold to try to save a friend when he couldn't save Nathan years ago. He will miss Reese. Finch's running conversation with the Rootchine was perfect. And he got his happy ending. Not in an Italian bistro, as some thought, but it was appropriate for him to come to Grace while she was painting.
* Finally, good to The Machine survive and Samaritan to be crushed (maybe?). Let's see what Nolan and Plageman do from here.
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Just Reese died. Harold made it. Shaw made it. Lionel made it. Wow.
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The countdown continues...won't be long now...listening to The Parting Glass by The High Kings right now...check it out on Spotify. It's appropriate for the final day of PoI.
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Over the weekend, I did some binge-watching of S3 of PoI. There were episodes with Shaw that reminded me why it is I and so many people really appreciate Shaw as a character. She was the flip side of the same coin as Reese, and she made it believable. It will be sad when Shaw and the rest of the PoI characters leave the stage for the final time tomorrow.
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With apologies to Don McLean...
"I met a Shaw who sang the blues,
And I asked her for some happy news,
And she just smiled (ok, maybe growled) and turned away.
I went down to the subway train,
For one last chance to see the gang again,
But the Bear there said he hoped they'd be back somedaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy,
And in the streets, the tears had streamed,
The audience cried and and then also dreamed,
But not a word was spoken,
The fanbase hearts were broken.
And the three folks I admire most,
The Reese, The Finch, and The Rootly Ghost,
Let's hope they leave Samaritan as utter toast,
The last day of PoI...."
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15 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:
Yep, Samaritan could easily replace the Machine in early years of the alternate reality(-ies?) until Decima and/or Root "liberate" it
What we didn't get to was the alternate timeline Arthur Claypool. What kind of person was he? Did he work for Decima?
There are several big-time characters the alternate timeline didn't address:
* Did Zoe clear the way for Samaritan to have its all-seeing reach, in exchange for getting a politician (maybe Garrison) out of dutch?
* Did Leon end up dead because Reese wasn't there to save him from the Aryan Brotherhood?
* Who did Grace end up getting with, if anyone, or did she remain an artist-spinster? (They did address Grace peripherally, but didn't pursue it beyond Finch not meeting her)
* Was Control disposed of, or did she fit in with the Samaritan regime?
I know they only had an hour, and couldn't address all these people, but it would have been fascinating to see what would have likely happened to them in the new timeline.
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This promo shows PoI coming full circle, with Reese and Finch. Their relationship got lost somewhere on the road, with new players, and Root, especially, seemed to take center stage in Finch's world (just an observation, not a criticism). But PoI was, at first, and, at that time, foremost about a billionaire tech genius and his Special Ops soldier and protector.
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One thing that was interesting with the alternate timeline was that The Machine never made it 100 percent certain (meaning full probability) that the alternate timeline would play out in every way The Machine showed, only that is was likely to play out that way. It played a bit with the statistical confidence interval.
Even though Nolan and Plageman are the primary showrunners, this episode still had the J.J. Abrams effect. Lost, I guess, showed alternate timelines, as did Fringe. (It would be great to see a lens flare, just to make the J.J. touch complete.) Fringe did it deeper with Peter Bishop's removal from the Blue Timeline, and this episode tapped into that vein, and TNG's Tapestry, as I mentioned earlier, and It's a Wonderful Life.
I am finding more and more that I want this to end as an online game that Finch created. Either that, or Team Machine's Final Stand. The online game scenario would most likely make fans feel cheated (like Bobby Ewing walking out of the shower, or snow-globe kid in St. Elsewhere). The Final Stand would be at once heroic and sickening, if all of Team Machine ends up with an eyelid view of a pine box.
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Holy Freaking Cow that was E-X-C-E-L-L-E-N-T!!!!!!!
* Simulations that showed Finch an alternate timeline. The first thing I thought of was an old TNG episode called Tapestry, where Q showed Picard the timeline of his life if he had made a different decision in a bar fight. The Machine showed Finch how things would have been different if he hadn't pursued making her. Seeing what would have happened to the various team members with shout-outs to Nathan, Carter (it would have been great if Taraji Henson had been available, sitting at her desk as the new Lt. Carter), Cole, Peck, Garrison, with Root as an Operative of Samaritan. And now we know either Harold's real last name (Dashwood) or his affinity for Jane Austen. Or both. Nice subtle play in the subway tunnel with Shaw casually thumbing through Sense and Sensibility. At first, I thought it was a quick nod to the psyches belonging to Root and Shaw, but it was just a well-hidden Easter Egg. FWIW, I will miss the scenes that Harold had with Nathan. Other than John Reese, Nathan was Harold's truest friend
* Adios Greer. Martyr for the Samaritan cause. The only way to make sure your enemy meets his end is if YOU die after HIM. I thought maybe his eyes would bulge and bug out like Ronnie Cox's did in Total Recall when he was in the oxygen-free environment on Mars. Alas, in death as in life, Greer was wrong. Warped in his thinking and beyond fanatic, delusional zeal, his story comes to a suffocating end. I will miss John Nolan as the black-hat character. His nephew is right...Brits make great bad guys
* Kudos to Reese for killing Zachary while saving Shaw. It was a fight between them, which is what I thought it would be, but I was pretty sure Reese was gonna end up "lookin' down the barrel of a hot metal .45". Bonus points, though, for the Willy Wonka reference. Reese's alternate timeline, ending with him in a grave with a marker similar to Root's, was just sad. I'm not sure if I buy the dark side that would have sent Jessica running, but, uh, OK. More likely he would have ended up with Kara Stanton. John Reese has been the muscle of the operation, and when the show takes its bow next week, one of the true good guys will be gone
* Fusco takes out Leroux. Man, Leroux was plenty unlikable. We never saw Fusco pull the trigger though, or take Leroux out to Oyster Bay, where he'd be for a long, long time. I think Fusco's alternate timeline was more of "It's a Wonderful Life," vice young George and Harry Bailey. Reese wasn't there to save Fusco because Finch wasn't there to save Reese. Fusco remained a dirty cop with no redemption. BTW, hey, Shamansky, good to see you again
* Alternate Shaw timeline in glasses, killing Peck. Made to look smart, but still the look of a stone-cold killer. I was sort of wondering if we would see Hersh. That would have been a perfect callback. Shaw, great with a gun. When the phone rang, I wanted Shaw to answer and hear Root's voice. Maybe before the end
* Bear makes an appearance!!! That's it, though, just a cameo for Bear
Down. To. One.
At once exhilarated to see how it ends, and sad that the curtain will drop for the final time. Looking forward to the DVD set with the cast farewells, if they have them.
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I have been trudging over the Interweb, and
SpoilerSpoilerPlageman was quoted by Deadline as saying the final episode will be a bloodbath, which may cause fans to rethink the possibility (or desire, maybe) of having a reboot.
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A friend of mine told me about the show a few years ago. I watched some of it and thought it was a little quirky, and stopped watching after a two or three episodes. Then I decided to watch again and found it really good, so I did some binge-watching to get caught up on the story.
Doing so gave me a real appreciation for the writing and acting that have been part of what is the. BEST. SHOW. ON. TV. PERIOD. It's the only thing I appointment-watch. Although the characters are fictitious, they are what make the show go. Sad that the show goes dark next Tuesday.
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The above picture of Finch makes him look like something from The Godfather or perhaps Goodfellas.
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When a show goes off the air, and they try to build on the legacy, it doesn't always end well. Joanie Loves Chachi, After M*A*S*H*, Joey, etc. all tried to take players from popular shows and stand them up on their own. Tank city. There have been some successful ones (Frasier, for example). NCIS (from JAG) had a backdoor pilot, but then, the show has lost a step and its dialogue has always been a bit stilted.
The difficulty I would have with a version 2.0 is, I would long for Reese and Finch and Root and Shaw and Carter and Elias. Introducing minor characters as assets of The Machine was at once interesting and cheap. It was unfulfilling and a little bit unbelievable because it was those three, and not someone found more interesting, like Megan Tillman or the kid from Wolf and Cub or, of course, Zoe Morgan. Shaw and Fusco, yeah, I think if they survive
Spoilerand Michael Emerson has said there won't be many survivors
Spoilerthen I would probly watch, because Fusco has earned that loyalty, and Shaw is, well, SHAW. Also with regard to cancellation, CBS cancelled the show. Warner Bros. could put it up on the CW (if partner org CBS would agree) or maybe pitch it to USA Network. And there's always Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon.
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1 hour ago, SnarkyTart said:
Since you don't read other people's posts, you'll never know that "4C" remains one of my favorite episodes. Quel dommage.
What I m-e-a-n-t to say was, I don't read them BEFORE I start writing my post. lo siento por no hacer esa clara
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With last night's episode (June 7, Synechdoche, S5E11), there has been a LOT of talk in these parts and in other regions of the Internet that it was a backdoor pilot for new versions of PoI. "Who else works for The Machine?" It is a fascinating concept.
So, if...IF...the major players (except Fusco OR Shaw) kick it at or by season's end, would you watch whatever iteration Nolan and Plageman would come up with, assuming there is a wide enough crack in the door to do so? Specifically:
* Could you see Logan Pierce as the new Finch-type character?
* Would Joey Durban make a fully believable, watchable Man in the Suit?
* Would Harper Rose be a suitable replacement for Root or a Root-like character (I can't believe I'm even writing this sentence/question)?
* Could this sustain itself over the course of a season or two?
This is not to speak against the actors or the characters, and indeed, who else would be another set of assets The Machine might have had? Could it be a sort of "The Machine Diaries," where each week is dedicated to one of several teams. My only concern is rebooting the franchise in a way that not necessarily tarnishes it, but the new version doesn't do well by comparison. Other shows have ended and have had subsequent spin-offs that underperformed.
FWIW, in my opinion, the best chance PoI had for a spinoff was when they introduced Shaw. I'm not as big a fan of extending a franchise out too much. It is hard to beat the original of anything.
Added: I edited this earlier after some additional thought to include possible iterations ("The Machine Diaries") and concern about effect on a posthumous spin-off so to speak.
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1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:
Per wiki page, the Zero Day episode aired on Thursday May 2, 2013. However, this was when the show aired on random day of the week so you could be right
I had also looked-up the date as a cross-reference for 050313. If we think the air date was also PoI in real time, that was also the date that Root started on her expedition (with Finch in tow) to set The Machine free.
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5 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:
That's why I think the virus Harold is releasing will take out The Machine as well as Samaritan, or leave them both unable to interfere in human life. That's the collateral damage that the Machine was talking about.
That would make sense, given the talk that Finch had with The Machine while he was in the diner, discussing how people think they make the world better when they can't foresee unintended consequences. However...
I also think that The Machine knew that loading the virus would quickly escalate the war, and lead to the deaths of other Team Machine members, and maybe, even Grace. Or himself.
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Initial thoughts from the top:
* The merry-go-round callback to the simulations was cool. Shaw still's struggling with sorting out reality.
* Finch goes rogue while driving a beat-up old sedan, with Root's voice as his traveling companion. I agree with what another poster put up the other day with a slight twist: It would have been good to hear Ingram's voice as the replacement voice instead of his Finch's sixth-grade teacher. His mopey skull session in the diner with The Machine was interesting, and took a step towards explaining unforeseen consequences with the freon story, as a parallel to the creation of The Machine. I'm with The Voice of Root on this one, though, let The Machine grow to its full potential
* Peter Collier, call yer office. A backdoor callback to Vigilance, with the Senator's wife (would've been great if it had been Garrison's wife) portraying the protester of intrusion. Speaking of backdoors...
* Did we just see the backdoor for PoI to continue sometime, somewhere, with Logan Pierce, Joey, and Harper Rose as assets of The Machine? Logan, OK, Joey, OK, but Harper????????? Where the heck is Zoe Morgan? She'd be a cooler agent of The Machine.
* Shaw tortures one of the faux Vigilance crew. Would've been cool and a tribute to Root if it had been an iron. Her sociopathic nature is on the surface, while she mourns Root's death
* Finch installs a virus on a Samaritan server, then, like Root would (and maybe even Greer), tells a military guy what the consequences would be if the soldier fails to let him go. Very cool, and Finch is on the Warpath
* It's always gooooooooooooood to see Shaw and Reese go Black Ops Martial Arts on people
* Fusco saves Shaw at a brownstone in Dupont. As someone who is very familiar with the DC landscape, I was glad to have an eppy in the DC area
Two more. Nolan and Plageman, swing for the fences on these.
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21 hours ago, fastiller said:
I am in withdrawal from two eps a week. I don't want to contemplate when the series ends.Sniff.
This show has been the. BEST. SHOW. ON. TV. It's a pathetic shame that it's ending.
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2 hours ago, kili said:
In other news, Samaritan also has an interesting recruitment policy. Some dude was put in jail for drunk driving when he was 17 and stays in for 12 years because he shanked somebody (or something like that). He gets out and becomes a house painter/odd jobs dude and now he is being sent out to be a sniper against a high-value target. Doesn't it take lots of training and some innate skill to be good at that? No wonder the average Samaritan agents can't hit the broad side of a barn and get mowed down by Team Machine.
Yeah, I was kind of mystified that Blackwell was chosen to take out Finch and Root ("primary" and "secondary"), as I was unaware that he had any skill with a gun, much less a high-powered rifle. But he was a bit robotic in his movements, waiting for commands from Samaritan. And we have to assume that at some point he had been trained on how to become a sniper. Also, just one tiny issue with the fact that of AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL the streets that Root could have gone down, Samaritan knew it would be that one. What if she did a Donna Noble had turned somewhere else/gone in a different direction (nods to Whovians in the audience)? Yes, I know it worked for the story, but even a god like ( or god-like) Samaritan can't foresee every combination of possibilities and determine that such-and-such will be the exact outcome. That would seem to violate the principle of free will.
Again, it's a small thing, and, as I said with Root becoming the voice of The Machine, it's the final season, so why not?
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1 minute ago, Agent Dark said:
The reason I like it is because it has everything to do with playing up the fact that The Machine has consistently been described as an Artificial Super Intelligence - that's not a made-up term the show uses, but a real concept that scientists use to describe an AI that is superior to human beings. That can be a pretty far-fetched concept to wrap your head around, because we're used to thinking of ourselves as the dominant lifeform on this planet. It also gets murky because the term "AI" gets saturated in various forms of entertainment, where it becomes just another sci-fi thing to go along with your laser guns and aliens. Something that belongs in a movie, not real life.
But Artificial Intelligences are a very real thing. Our current world is full of Artificial Narrow Intelligences (or Weak AI's) - they're your GPS navigation software, chess playing computers, targeted advertising on websites, the high-frequency stock trading algorithms, computer games and so on. The next step is to build Artificial General Intelligences (or Strong AI); an AI that can match a human in broad intelligence. We're still aways off that (but probably not as far as you think), if its even possible, but once we hit that step its commonly accepted amongst the leading AI experts that its only a matter of time before an ASI emerges.
If you can imagine that an ASI would be at least to human beings as we humans are to a chimpanzee then the implications of what The Machine is capable of are amazing. Chimps are pretty smart - they use tools, are capable of performing altruistic actions and have complex social structures - but you're not going to able to explain Nuclear Physics to one. Their brains are simply incapable of comprehending it. Now imagine all the things that The Machine might be able to comprehend that our lesser human brains simply cant. What is the meaning of life then? What might it mean for the very future of humanity with such a being sitting above us on the evolutionary ladder?
That kind of stuff is fascinating to me, and I think the potential of having Root open those ideas up in the show is brilliant. I'm not saying that downplays her death at all (it hit me hard because I fucking love Root and Amy Acker's portrayal of her), but then I think of the possibilities. What could an ASI that chooses to merge a human identity be like? What could that mean for someone who loved Root, and what could a relationship with a merged Root/ASI be like?
I wasn't necessarily speaking against it, @AgentDark. I only said that my footing was a bit unsure on it, and, indeed, I am willing to accept it because I am love PoI as the p-e-r-f-e-c-t show. When I heard Root's voice when Harold answered the phone, asking,"Can you hear me?", I knew The Machine had chosen hers as its voice, since she was its constant champion. FWIW, I like the journey Root has had, from sociopathic stalker to full-on sacrificing member of Team Machine. I will miss her corporeal presence; she had excellent scenes with the various members of TM.
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3 hours ago, tessaray said:
I didn't know that subtitles had leaked, so thanks for the warning.
Usually I'm always up for spoilers no matter what (I hate surprises) but this is probably the one of the few times where I'm conflicted.
I have poked around on the Interweb a bit, and have gone to a site I trust as an excellent source (I would guess most other members of the PoI CoI have a good level of trust in the site I'm referring to). It is true that you can get spoiled, but in this case, the site I saw makes me wonder how things will unfold.
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1 hour ago, ppl said:
Something else that I noticed is that Fusco gives a little look to Shaw before he blurts out that one of them is in critical condition. I suspect that he knew by that time and decided it would be best if Shaw and Reese went to look for Harold instead of going to the hospital. When Root's death was revealed, Fusco was sombre but not crying with tears streaming down his face. If Shaw or Reese went in his place, they might have gone on a rampage blowing their cover to Samaritan. At least this way, he is the most detached from the team so a loss won't hit him as hard as it would with Shaw or Reese.
I believe Fusco knew Root was dead when he told Reese and Shaw she was in critical condition (and said as much in my original posting on this episode). He likely wanted to spare Shaw until he could get to the hospital, which he offered to go to when Reese said they should split up to save Finch. Fusco has earned a lot of stripes over the course of this series, turning from a dirty cop who betrayed Reese early on, to a full member of Team Machine's Justice League.
Elias was due to die, as his story had come to its logical conclusion. He was good with a gun (to my recollection, this was the first episode where he actually fired a gun as an older man...Scarface or one of Elias's henchmen always did the killing).
But his death was expected. Root's death was shock value, and it seems to have hit its mark. I don't have as sure a footing about her transcendence to being the voice of The Machine, but, hey, we're reaching the end of the road, anyway, so, why not?
John Reese: The Man in the Suit
in Person Of Interest [V]
I watched the show because I liked the Finch and Reese dynamic. John Reese was a blend of Alt Phillip Broyles and Sydney Bristow from two other JJ Abrams projects. Jim Caviezel did a great job as the the man in the suit for the first couple of seasons.
As the years progressed, and as Root and Shaw gained more presence on the show, Reese became less of one. By the end of Season 3, Root became more the lead, and Reese's character receded a bit into the background. Not a complaint, just an observation. As most of us did, I pretty much knew/strongly believed at the beginning of Season 5 that John Reese would die, and it was fitting that he died protecting Finch.