[S02.E05: Zoey’s Extraordinary Trip]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

After 7 investors turned them down, it's not fair for Max to think his dad is just being unloving when he has doubts. Max might need to take some feedback on why no one wants to fund the project. It can be hard to get financing even if you do have a good idea, but I think it's very emotionally supportive and does show some kind of love when you offer to write the check even if you have doubts. It means "I want you to be happy, and this is what you want, so I support it." Max has seemed petulant and annoying to me all season.

100% agreed. This bothered me SO MUCH. It would have been one thing if they portrayed the problem between Max and his dad being that his dad used money to try to control or manipulate him ("Yeah, he'll pay for anything I want, but he always expects something in return" kind of thing).  But that was not it at all! Max's problem with his dad was very clearly said to be that his dad always wanted him to come back home and work for the family business. Offering the money was a real, concrete way his dad was saying "I understand that's not what you want, I am supporting you in what you want to do instead."

And honestly, while "Numb" was great a great number, even that I thought was poorly timed. His dad came to this investor meeting, listened to the pitch, and then shared a bunch of ideas he had about the business -- and that's what set Max off? Because...what? He just wanted his dad to gush about what a great idea it is? I know the dad is in a very different line of work, but he's apparently a successful business owner himself, and the show gave us no reason to think he was being critical for the sake of being critical, as opposed to maybe actually having some helpful feedback (certainly the questions we saw him ask, like "wait, how do you make money?" made perfect sense to me). 

I guess none of this is helped by the fact that the whole venture seems pretty nonsensical to me. I mean, sure, it could end up catching on as a novelty thing, but it's not exactly unreasonable for a person to have questions about it, so Max acting like anything other than gushing love of the idea is a slap in the face is just childish.

[S01.E06: The Bloody Truth]

3 hours ago, ahpny said:

This wasn’t a “legal error” in the show - as with the hearsay point - but a tactical error that an experienced trial attorney would not be expected to make. Even if Jonathan had enthusiastically encouraged her testimony (which he did not, granting a mere nod of acceptance), the lawyer should have advised against it. The mere fact that Grace volunteered should also have raised some suspicion give the “ambivalence” the lawyer already mentioned.

You know, this is making me think this would've been so much better if the defense attorney had been pretty strongly against it, but Jonathan pushed for it really hard and she relented (because ultimately it is his strategy). This would make more sense to me with the two characters.  It would make the supposedly talented defense attorney not look like such an idiot, and I could see Jonathan wanting Grace to testify for him as the ultimate sign of proof that he ~won~ and still has her on his side. As we saw at the end where he thought she was running to him rather than her son, he can't really comprehend that she could/has turned against him, so that would've been fitting.

[S01.E06: The Bloody Truth]

3 hours ago, PepSinger said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_against_interest

Basically, from what I can gather in my 10 minutes of Googling, the show misused the "declaration against interest" rule. From what I understand, Jonathan would've had to make the declaration in a conversation with Grace or his mother. 

As a lawyer, can confirm. I'm not a trial attorney, so I had to pause the TV and go Google to confirm that I wasn't completely misremembering everything I learned in Evidence. Complete nonsense. Weirdly, I think the statements were arguably admissible as non-hearsay -- that they weren't being admitted for the truth of the matter asserted, but rather for their impact on Grace's mind, which I guess is what the prosecutor was getting to with calling it impeachment evidence. I don't understand why the writers used declaration against interest at all. It was completely non-applicable and stood out like a sore thumb for a lawyer, but was also way too specific to mean anything to most non-lawyers. Weird choice. 

Anyway, add me to the list of people who cannot understand why the big fancy defense attorney put Grace on the stand. How did she not know about the 911 call, at the very least? That alone should've made it a no-go.

But hey, at least Hugh Grant was really good.

[S03.E11: Nathaniel and I Are Just Friends!]

Add me to the list of people who was disappointed with this episode. And this is coming from someone who actually likes Rebecca/Nathaniel. But I do not like the way they have progressed recently.

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It feels that the show had a brilliant, very sure grasp of Rebecca's unraveling, and is leaning very hard on cliche, telling not showing, and writing to result as far as her recovery. That her recovery is being written as an obstacle to what feels like the show's REAL current center, the Rebecca/Nathaniel coupling, seems like a betrayal of its foundation.

Yes. This is spot on.

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And I was under the impression that a lot of the people in the office WERE incompetent, you know? I don't think it's bitchy to have standards and professionalism. The stuff with Sunil and the font is one thing, that's too nitpicky (unless he's using Comic Sans or something), but if the work is legit wrong, it needs to be right.

I agree with your first point. Most of the co-workers have been written as pretty bad at their jobs, so it makes sense for Paula to take charge! And the episode was even internally inconsistent: at first Sunil said the other people were also doing good work, but then at the end he said they were idiots. Which is it?

And re: the font: I was actually bothered by that, too. They picked the wrong profession to use issues with font and margins as an example of a boss being unreasonable. There are plenty of courts that straight up won't accept documents that are submitted with the wrong font, margin, type of paper, etc., etc. Attention to detail on that kind of thing is something they drill into law students from the first semester on.

[S13.E04: Week 4: Hilton Head Island]

On 6/21/2017 at 8:24 AM, Ohwell said:

But she's a lawyer so she should know better.

But fuck correct grammar, let's just all make up our own words.  See how far that gets us. 

Yup.

For what it's worth I'm a lawyer from the south, and until this conversation I'm not sure I could have actually told you that one pronunciation was non-standard. I mean, if I thought about it I suppose I would have figured out that there are two pronunciations and one is potentially the correct one, but it has never come up before now. Being a lawyer doesn't mean you have thought about the difference between regional and technically correct pronunciations of ever word in the dictionary. Why would it? 

(I also can't spell to save my life. And I read a lot! But I have to read through my writing extensively to catch all the typos. I would have flopped at this challenge. Though I do agree that there were some misspellings that were so off it raised eyebrows. But the people who just were a bit off? I totally sympathize.) 

[After Paradise]

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Caila has given us a good long discussion because her personality is hard to pin down and she can be seen as either innocent victim of jealous haters, or stealth bitch according to which light we're holding her in.

Yes, this I agree with. Caila is interesting to talk about precisely because reactions are so mixed. And also because what's being argued about is totally within the scope of good/bad you expect on the show -- is she a bitch, is she nice, is she in it for the Right Reasons or not, etc. Nick is like that, too (though post BIP it seems a lot more people are pro Nick so there's less debate). To me, one of the best parts of talking about reality TV is seeing how people react differently to these more polarizing figures. 

I actually think Caila makes an interesting contrast to someone like Josh. I have seen less detailed discussion about him (here or anywhere) recently, but that's because it seems like there's less disagreement -- at this point, most people agree he sucks. And personally, I think he sucks in a way that's not even fun to snark on. He really might be emotionally abusive. That's not fun or interesting, that's, to me, sad and disturbing. 

[After Paradise]

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NICK!! I wish I'd auditioned for this season. I sincerely, genuinely want him to find love. I'm too invested. I hope he gets a bevy of beautiful, intelligent, and age-appropriate women to choose from.

My thoughts exactly. I started this show a few seasons ago as a decidedly Wrong Reasons viewer, and I thought I was finally free because Luke (and Chase, and all of Jojo's final guys) bored me the tears... and instead I literally cheered when Nick walked out. I really do hope he finds love, and doesn't end up coming off badly.  

ETA: I also hope Josh is raging somewhere. He came on BIP to redeem himself post-book, instead he looks worse than ever, while Nick gets the redemption edit and the big gig. Delightful. 

[S05.E04: Old Loves]

the pudding place (is that really a thing?)

 

Yep! It's called Rice to Riches, and serves all kinds of rice pudding. (I personally find it all way too sweet but I know many people who love it).

 

Also, isn't Marnie renting? Pretty sure building walls in the apartment would violate some sort of a lease.

That was my first thought, too. Surprised Marnie didn't bring it up. Also, it was fun to see Heather from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend as one of the neighbors. Would love to see more of her, I think that actress is really funny.

[S20.E06: Week 6]

And Caila probably did in her chances to be b-ette with the "can't love" thing.

 

See, I actually thought that was totally her Bachelorette audition speech. She feels all this love, but she's not sure if she can give her heart 100% -- which of these 25 hot guys will finally win her over completely?

 

I don't know if it really worked because honestly, she just came off as incoherent, but I definitely felt like that's what she was going for.

[S20.E03: Week 3]

She made Ben more interesting in their time together. He did seem truly engaged with her story and her as a person, moreso than with anyone else.

 

I could not agree more. He was laughing and having fun and occasionally being awkward in a way that felt really honest. It wasn't over the top romantic like a lot of the dates on this show, but the day part actually felt like watching a real first date that could happen between two people (other than the location, of course). The intense soul baring at dinner was a bit much for a real world first date, obviously, but it felt like they actually had a real connection over it. Or at least faked it well.

 

That said, I do think he has more long term potential with Lauren B, and he's clearly head over heels for her. She does seem perfectly nice and like a good fit for him, but DAMN do they make for boring TV. Just smiling and saying "like" every other word. I mean good for them if they're as into each other as it seems, but yawn. Only good part of that date was the scenery porn and the lol moment of the hot tub in the middle of nowhere.

 

Also: Wow Olivia. Either she's really good at playing a part, or she's just straight up batshit with all those "signs." And talking about her body issues right after Ben's tragedy definitely knocked her down in is mind.

 

Finally, I'm 100% Team Jubilee when it comes to her vs. the other women. She's an odd duck, for sure, but as far as they showed she didn't do anything malicious or even unintentionally bad (and since the only thing Amber mentioned was her joke at the beginning of the date, I don't think anything big was cut); nothing I saw was at all worth the others ganging up on her, and I LOVE that she wasn't going to just meekly let the other girls attack her.

 

I'm sure the whole "go confront Jubilee" idea was at least partially producer pushed, but still,it made everyone else look bad, not just for viewers but to Ben. I bet you anything Amber is cut next week after that.

[S09.E10: Face The Raven]

I'll admit, I'm not really remembering Martha's goodbye other than the married to Mickey one, so maybe this is on par with hers?

 

Martha didn't get a big emotional farewell, but that's because she chose to walk away on her own (both to be with her family after the ordeal with the Master and because she realized her feelings for the doctor weren't good for her). It wasn't a Big. Dramatic. Moment, but I'd say being the only New Who companion to get to leave on her own terms makes her ending (as a full time companion, anyway, because she popped up a few times) awesome in its own way. I didn't shed tears over it, but I don't think we were supposed to. It was more "hell yeah! Go live an awesome life on your own, you rock star!" (I really love Martha. And I would love it if the next companion also left voluntarily, because while traveling with the doctor can be awesome, it's not all there is in life. Even though they basically got a happy ending together, I'm still annoyed Amy and Rory weren't allowed to bow out because they wanted a grown up, settled life. It would have been the perfect end to their arc.)

 

Anyway, I agree with the people saying they were not moved by this. Clara never really clicked with me the way past companions had, so maybe that's why. I do in theory like that she died for no real reason other than her own hubris, though. That's an interesting idea. Just wish I really cared more.

[S01.E02: An Unconventional Carwash!]

what stood out most to me tonight was that they treat the models like the models are actual human beings.  They don't manhandle, they point.

 

I noticed this, too! At one point Kelly even thanked a model for turning around for them, which I thought was nice. 

 

Also, in general agreement with the posts here: I didn't expect to like this, only tuned in our of boredom, and am surprised to discover it is much more enjoyable than the flagship was this season. Some of these kids are really talented, and I love their enthusiasm, and the generally positive vibe.  

[S14.E14: Finale, Part 2]

I felt like Ashley's collection was for young plus-size women. I wouldn't choose her clothes for myself because I'm way too old for crop tops and see-thru fabrics. But I feel like twenty-something plus sizes could wear those looks and feel really sexy and "in-your-face".

 

As a young plus-sized woman (at least as defined by this show -- I'm about the size of some of Ashley's models) who loves me some crop tops, see-through shirts that show bras, and other in-your-face, yes-I'm-sexy looks, my problem is actually that nothing about Ashley's collection felt sexy to me, at all, because the colors and the lace combo made it seem so little girl, baby doll in feel. I do think there's a market for that, but it's very small -- not just young, plus-sized and confident, but young, plus sized, confident, and interested in rather twee styling. And even then, half the pieces didn't even fit well!

[S14.E10: Crew's All In]

My thought on the fairness issue is that it matters not because of the designers and their feelings, but because if the AUDIENCE perceives a situation as unfair, it's going to have a negative impact on the show. We all know this is reality TV and things are manipulated, etc., but in the end it's supposed to be a competition of talent, where a bunch of people are faced with the SAME challenge, and live or die by their abilities. That's what I'm here to watch, anyway. So if a situation seems like it vastly handicaps one contestant more than others, that's bad because it makes me, a viewer, annoyed at the setup (and clearly at least some other viewers are also annoyed, based on comments here.)

 

So basically, I don't care that life is unfair in general, and I don't care that the contestants CAN quit -- I want the show to provide challenges that give people an even starting ground, because that's what I want to watch. And other competitive reality shows manage to keep things fair, or at least make it seem that way. 

 

Of course, at this point we all just have to be used to the fact that some of the clients in the real women challenge are going to be pickier than others. I think the real misstep the producers made this time was not even PRETENDING it was randomized via button bag. That makes it a lot easier to feel like the situation was manipulated to make Swapnil fail, which I think is just bad TV.

[S21.E07: Switch Up Night]

I’m with everyone who thought Andy was so much better with Sharna. It makes me really sad to remember he was supposed to be with Peta originally — that could have been a really strong pair, and I think we got a taste of that last night. Though OTOH if that had happened, we might not have gotten Lindsay back, and she’s proving to be quite the talent. Loved what she did with Carlos.

[S14.E10: Crew's All In]

I believe they star in a scripted series about the sensitive, talented makers of a manipulative, abusive 'reality' series who aren't at fault for losing their souls because they have upper-middle-class lifestyles to maintain.

 

I gotta defend my favorite summer addiction for a sec. UnReal is actually way more interesting an dark than this -- the leads (played by the guest judges this week) are producers on a reality show, but they are no way presented as "sensitive" and "not at fault" for the way they manipulate the contestants. They embrace their effed up loss of soul (especially Constance Zimmer's character -- Shiri's struggles with it more but she certainly realizes how badly she behaves). It's rather a twisted delight.

 

It has also made me look at every reality show with an even more critical eye, and I agree with the people who think it's ironic they were judging this episode, because there was clearly SOMETHING going on behind the scenes with Swapnil. I'm with the people who thinks Tim's explosion was way out of line and uncomfortable to watch; I'm really curious what possibly could have really prompted it. 

[S14.E10: Crew's All In]

All the disappointment that "especially" Ashley failed at the challenge was offensive.

 

I don't think so, because she has specifically marketed herself as someone who designs for plus sized women. If she'd never suggested she had any special interest in designing for "regular women" I'd agree, but in this case I don't think they're saying that because Ashley herself is plus sized, they're saying it because she herself said this was right in her wheelhouse, just like they'd ping a sportswear designer for failing at a sportswear challenge, or someone who claims to be all about red carpets failing the inevitable red carpet challenge. (And boy, Ashley DID fail.)

 

anyways, now that Swapnil, my original favorite has crashed and burned I'm totally Team Edmund (don't always love his designs, but adore his attitude and think there's totally a space for him, even if he's not "fashion forward") and Team Kelly (another great attitude, and while I wouldn't wear her stuff I kind of adore it. There's a type of girl who totally would wear it, and rock it.)

[TDS 3.0: Season One Talk]

What happened to Chris Christie? Why did he cancel?

 

Wait, where are you getting that he canceled? He was always supposed to be tonight, and as of last night he was still in (Noah announced it at the end of the night.) I'm not seeing anything saying otherwise.

[S14.E07: Haute Tech Couture]

Yes.  I suspect Swapnil has shown the arrogant over-confidence and blasé attitude to the judges a few times.  I don't think the show decided to edit Swapnil negatively and mislead the viewers.  I think Zac's comment was in a difficult spot to edit out, and they were obligated to give us a taste of what Zac was referring to.  Tim was also quite adamant in his belief that Swapnil blew off the challenge.

 

See,if this is the case, I don't understand why the editors didn't show us a hint of it before. To have a designer presented as talented and well liked by the judges (always in the top three, always praised, no hint of a problem) only to all of a sudden have it turn out the judges are fed up with him seemingly out of the blue is just bad storytelling. If this really has been a problem before, and the editors/producers decided it was a storyline they wanted to include, then the editors majorly fell down on the job by not setting it up.

 

Whether this storyline was trumped up out of almost nothing, or a real problem that just hasn't been presented before, I think the people in charge totally botched the execution.

[S14.E07: Haute Tech Couture]

I'm... confused about the Swapnil stuff. Yes, his attitude this week wasn't great and his garment didn't work out, but the judges were talking like they have been thinking he's been phoning it in for a while. Zac even said something like "I'm getting tired of this with him." Which might make sense for someone perpetually in the bottom or even middle, but he is ALWAYS on the top. Yes, he's never won but a) there have been a number of times many people here on the boards thought he should have, and b) consistently being top 3 is pretty damn impressive in general, not something normally scoffed at. We've seen zero evidence of this storyline before, or the judges doing anything but loving Swapnil. Where did it come from?

 

As for his attitude, I thought he was edited to look very bad, with the emphasis on breaks and etc. And obviously he slacked off a bit too much this week. But honestly, I think the idea of conserving energy and ideas until later -- especially when your "60-80%" is constantly landing you at the top -- is actually a legitimate strategy. Project Runway is a marathon, you have to save some for the end.

 

Anyway, loved Kelly's look, glad she won!

 

ETA: Oh, and I was worried that after Jake left (sad about the dog, less sad about him leaving, he wasn't long for the competition) they'd bring Blake back. Glad that didn't happen!

[S02.E02: Episode 2]

This is my first season watching BiP, so I'm not sure if Clare actually could do that rules wise, but either way I would assume her reason not to would be similar to why she didn't just ask Jared on a date in the first place: she got burned by drama last season, and doesn't want to start more this season. And I think turning down a rose this early (esp. if it led to Jared giving her and not Ashley his rose) would definitely cause drama. 

[UnREALity vs. Reality: How does UnREAL stack up?]

On the topic of Shamiqua, I still find the idea that someone who had clerked for a Supreme Court Justice would wind up on Everlasting one of the most unrealistic things on this show, especially because there was no backstory explanation about her changing her life course or anything. I feel like that was one of those things the writers threw in there because it sounded impressive without realizing or thinking through what it really meant. Getting a clerkship at the Supreme Court means a person is performing at an incredibly high level in a career where spending time on a reality show won't exactly be looked fondly on. Why would she risk all that for this stupid show?

[S01.E06: Fly]

I don't think we've had a case where there was no winner at all.

 

Actually, Brad Womack ended up rejecting both of his final two on Season 11. (He came back to be the Bachelor again in Season 15, where he did pick someone.) 

 

It would be interesting in Adam went that route. Though after what went down this week I, like a lot of you, have a hard time seeing how this season of Everlasting could possibly continue.

[S20.E05: Disney Songs Night]

 

Whatever the hell Mark and Willow were dancing to, for example - that's not something you walk out of the movie theater humming to yourself. It's not catchy or memorable.

 

To be fair, that was a soundtrack piece from Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland. Despite technically having words, it was never intended as a stand alone song -- it's the equivalent of the Pirates of the Caribbean music Riker danced to. It's not meant to be catchy, just atmospheric. (And I personally love it in that context, but I'm always a huge Danny Elfman fan.)

 

That does bring up something I found slightly odd about this night, though, which was the use of those two pieces of music. Both dances turned out well (I agree with those who found Allison's choreography a little too ON ON ON as usual, but Riker did a good job with it), so I guess all's well that ends well, but when I hear "Disney Night" I think "Songs from the animated Disney canon" not "soundtracks from live action Disney films." I'd rather them have a separate movie night for that kind of thing, though it's a small nitpick. 

[S04.E05: Sit-In]

"Maybe don't call me kid anymore."

 

I was coming here to note this line. That whole moment was perfect. As soon as he called her "kid" it was a stab in my heart. I didn't even like their relationship, but that affectionate knick-name was so well established, and I know how painful it can be to have reminders of what once was hit you like that after a relationship is over. Loved that Hannah actually told him not to do it anymore.

 

Agree with you all in general that the breakup was very well written. I felt so bad for Hannah, and that's a very rare experience.