Old Man Neil
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Posts posted by Old Man Neil
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3 hours ago, deaja said:
She just consistently seemed to think all the women were beneath her and put them down if she was upset or having a bad day. It would be one thing if she was their peer, but they were in circumstances where she held the power.
I don't know. You cited a couple of exceptions. The rule seemed to be that she was well liked by the secretarial staff.
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On 6/4/2020 at 10:43 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:
Early Joan was such a bitch to the rest of the female staff.
But the Mohawk Meredith incident didn't happen until Season 5 and there were extenuating circumstances. I remember she came down pretty hard on the secretary who sent her the flowers intended for Lane's wife in The Good News but wasn't that deserved? As for Scarlet, she needed reprimanding.
In the early seasons, I remember her counselling Peggy to be nice to the switchboard operators, and trying to give good advice to Peggy in general, even if it was a bit snarky. She and Jane exchanged words, but Jane started it.
Of course, you are right about the department store sales person.
4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:She turns on the charm for the men and the wives.
You make it sound like she sucks up to the guys and their wives. I don't see anything other than charming professionalism.
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3 hours ago, deaja said:
Joan mistreated most of the women in the office on a regular basis.
You are the second person to say this recently, but that wasn't my impression. Can you give some examples?
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I just watched The Guitar, an episode from the first season of Gunsmoke. It was written by Sam Peckinpah, best known for The Wild Bunch, and featured a down and out guitar picker. At one point the patrons of The Long Branch took up a collection for him. The actor who played the impoverished guitarist was Aaron Spelling.
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Allison falls in love with a good man. They get married and are very happy together, until the day her husband says, "Honey, have you seen my keys?"
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Peggy flies to Paris, looks out her hotel room window, and sees a couple of French poodles humping on the sidewalk.
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Just now, sistermagpie said:
It was Lakshmi talking about how Paul was really good at getting people into the cult. He was a great recruiter.
Thank you!
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34 minutes ago, Umbelina said:
"he could really close"
What episode was that in and what was the context? I remember it being said, but that's all I remember. Did we get any examples?
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Just now, Umbelina said:
Lots of people never make it in Hollywood, Paul probably won't. Still he has sunshine, the beach and ocean, and enough to make a fresh start. I doubt he would consider any semi decent job beneath him, it's gotta be better than begging on the street. He'll fit in there, and I think he will be happy.
Could be. I like your sunny optimism.
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Umbelina, the thing is, you were on your way up in the world; Paul was on his way down. Sure, he could have turned his life around. Moved to LA, found a roommate, a place to live and a job, if he did all the right things, and didn't do anything foolish. But that doesn't sound like Paul to me. Paul was looking for a writing job and he probably would have wasted time trying to catch on at one of the studios. I'm not saying it wasn't nice of Harry to give him $500. But I think it might have been more of an act of friendship to level with him about his screenplay and lack of prospects for success in the business.
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You and Umbelina make some really good points Sister Magpie. I especially like this.
2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:I thought she became an addict because of how it worked in that episode--it was seeing her again that gave Don the idea for his quitting tobacco letter, since Don's no stranger to addiction himself.
I continue to think that Harry, Ken and Paul went off the rails in the later seasons, but I don't have the energy to discuss it at any greater length.
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1 hour ago, Umbelina said:
In other words, $500 in 1968 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $3,683.82 in 2020, a difference of $3,183.82 over 52 years. The 1968 inflation rate was 4.19%. Also, I lived in LA in 1970, our house, 3 BR, nice area, big yard, was about $400 a month. Cool apts with pools and townhouse style 2 story were around $300. That money would have gone far.
It doesn't sound like it would go that far for someone without an income. At most that would have given him two or three months of rent, but no car, and he would have had to buy groceries, and a television. And bell-bottoms.
I loved Ken as a writer, and hated that he gave it up. It didn't seem realistic to me that he had that kind of talent and traded it for the rat race. It seemed to me like Weiner manipulated his character to make a point rather than letting the character naturally evolve.
Midge was realistic in that heroin was the drug of choice for beatniks. It made sense for her to become an addict. But it would have been equally realistic to portray her as continuing on as a free spirited working artist, or marrying and raising a family. It seemed that Weiner wanted to make a point about the counter culture and dragged us through the mud with her. He didn't have to make Midge an addict.
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3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:
I felt like the excesses were important to the show, because it was showing how as the 60s went on the greater freedom naturally was just too much for some people, everything got more exaggerated.
You may be right, but I think the same points could have been made without the over the top characterizations. As an example of someone who was presented more realistically, I give you Stan Rizzo. I saw so many people like Stan in the sixties. They started out as straight arrow types but became well rounded under the influence of marijuana. His growth as a character felt more natural to me than the arcs of Ken, Paul and Harry.
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On 7/7/2020 at 12:58 PM, Umbelina said:
He did quite a bit on this show, moving the times along, and to me, he was a very well written character.
EDITED TO ADD:
Through Harry's character's actions we moved from the fifties in NY, to the new decade of computers, and also to California. Don, of course, also helped with the California POV to contrast with the NYC lifestyles. So, for story, his character was very useful in both introducing interesting new things, social commentary, and how advertising evolved as well.
You make some great arguments and almost have me convinced.
My take has always been that the secondary characters from the early seasons were shabbily written as the series went on. Ken with his eye-patch and over the top vindictiveness, Paul as a Hare Krishna, Midge as a junkie, Harry as a scurrilous lech. In season five, the joke about Zou Bisou Bisou was organic. but propositioning the bosses wife in New Business was unbelievably crass and stupid. If he cared enough to help save Don's job, you'd think he'd care enough to leave the man's wife alone.
He's never depicted as having new ideas. His contributions in that regard are limited to saying all the other companies have one. And notice in the episode Shoot, it's Pete's bright idea to buy up all the ad space for Secor Laxatives to keep Kennedy off of television where he had a clear advantage over Nixon. If they wanted to foreshadow the idea that Harry was a media whiz, that would have been a great opportunity.
I think they could have made the same points with his character, and others, without the cartoonish exaggerations.
Did he really do all that much to help Paul? He didn't level with him that the script was terrible. Five hundred dollars would last about a month in California. I guess at least it got him away from the Krishnas.
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52 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:
I may be wrong, but my understanding of the job was that Joan would read scripts and decide if material might be bad for a client who was advertising during the episode. I agree she seemed to be good at it, but I didn't get the impression the job required much beyond basic reading comprehension and knowing the client. And while Joan may have been disappointed at not being considered for the job, she already was the office manager. It seems like going to that job, where she would lose her supervisory duties and be under Harry's purview, would have been a step down.
The job paid $150 per week. I wonder how that would compare to Joan's salary at the time.
29 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:Joan was good at that basic job, but she also suggested to the client that there was a storyline coming up on the show that would be particularly good to advertise on etc.
Yes. It was really no different from what Harry did in The Benefactor. With the exception that Joan was actually successful at making the sale.
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11 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:
Of course, it should be noted that Joan herself didn't lobby for it. Iirc, she just agreed she was glad to get back to work. That was a specific way Joan was contrasted to Peggy, who openly wanted to move up as a worker while Joan was raised to think that was a bad look for any woman.
I saw it a little differently. Joan seemed clearly disappointed at not being recognized. On the other hand, as soon as Peggy said Basket of Kisses she was immediately discovered and got a leg up without asking for it. Peggy had a veritable stable of mentors from the start. She didn't show ambition until later.
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15 hours ago, Ralphster said:
Not noticing Joan's aptitude for catching how well scripts & commercials fit does not negate the fact that Harry saw the huge change of television and tried his best to drag the company forward. The job Joan performed was by far secondary to this.
Harry got the job as Head of Television by noticing a script and its commercial potential in The Benefactors.
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8 hours ago, Ralphster said:
Without Harry's perspicacity, Sterling Cooper and later iterations would have foundered in trying to rush to keep up with other firms who not only had a good handle on what worked & didn't work for TV, but who would have already established relationships with the networks, etc. Harry's contributions in this regard are almost always overlooked, IMO, while Joan's act of prostitution is praised.
Ironically, Joan showed an aptitude for TV work in A Night to Remember. If Harry had recognized and acknowledged her talent, they might have had an even better TV department, and Harry would have gained a valuable ally. He wasn't all that perspicacious.
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3 hours ago, Umbelina said:
There is no way that entire scene could have been played better, by either actor, it was perfection.
You could say that about the entire episode.
There is a nice bit of foreshadowing in Christmas Waltz. Pete chortles that Lane's British friend from Jaguar flamed out spectacularly. He threw up in the lap of the head of the dealer's association. The Other Woman introduces Herb Rennet.
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4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:
I loved the show, but what exactly is the story that still needs to be told concerning these characters?
I'd like to see Don in a long-term relationship with his real estate agent.
57 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:I'd find a Peggy/Joan spin off interesting. They do advertising by day and solve mysteries at night, while finding romance and intrigue along the way.
There you go. The possibilties are endless.
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Just now, SunnyBeBe said:
I’d be open to it. Wouldn’t all the characters be rather old now? Except for Sally her siblings and other child characters.
It wouldn't have to be set in the present day.
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2 hours ago, atlantaloves said:
I know this question is crazy, but anybody up for a Mad Men movie? I am still not over the fact they never made a real movie from the series "24"..... I need this.
Matthew Weiner should drop his other projects and get to work on this immediately.
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10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:
I always wanted a scene between Peggy and her mother after she broke up with Abe. After Mrs. Olsen telling Peggy that Abe would just use her for practice, and move on, I'd have liked to see her reaction to being told Peggy stabbed him with a spear.
"That's my girl!!!"
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In the spirit of Mad Magazine’s feature, Scenes We’d Like to See, I thought of a Mad Men scene I'd like to see: Don takes Peggy shopping for books at the Strand. It could be in The Hobo Code.
He recommends On the Road. She’s already read it.
“I’m impressed. Here’s one I bet you haven’t read.” He hands her a hardcover copy of Thieves Like Us by Edward Anderson. “This was made into the 1948 movie They Live by Night. It’s one of my favorites.”
“Who was in it?”
“Nobody famous. Farley Granger. Cathy O’Donnell plays a young woman who falls for an escaped convict.”
“Wasn’t she the girl who played Wilma in The Best Years of Our Lives.”
“You’re good, Peggy.” She beams and practically skips down the aisle.
Don points out a book called Waiting for Nothing by Tom Kromer. “It’s one of the great books to come out of the depression. What it was like for the homeless, the nightly fight for food and shelter.”
They come to a table stocked with books by Ayn Rand.
“What do you know about her?”
“Well, she’s Burt Cooper’s favorite author. In fact, he told me to buy a copy of Atlas Shrugged, today. I tried reading it once. It bored the living daylights out of me. But I didn’t tell him that.”
“How come she’s not in politics? I can just see her face on a campaign political button.”
“Can you now?” Don says. “Maybe you could put a little magnet inside each one and sell them as refrigerator magnets.”
“That’s a great idea. I could become a very wealthy refrigerator magnet magnate.”
“Ayn Rand would approve.”
They are giggling as they move to the checkout counter, and Don buys her the two books he recommended.
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Perry Mason - General Discussion
in Perry Mason
This site offers free episodes of the TV series and many others. Thanks to it I was able to watch The Case of the Substitute Face.
https://solie.org/alibrary/PerryMason.html