janedi
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Posts posted by janedi
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15 hours ago, Bridget said:
THAT is what I couldn't put my finger on. Sephardic background makes total sense. Thank you!
I always assumed Jeanette was Jewish and that Greg was either Jewish too or he converted, but I didn't see a yarmulke on Greg's head (nor on Grandpa Jack) in their original wedding photos. I've never been to a Jewish wedding ceremony, but don't all of the men, even the non-Jewish ones, wear yarmulkes? Or Is that something that occurs only when the two people who are going to be married are both Jewish and practicing/observant? I did some Googling and learned that there are peeps of Sephardic origins in the world who aren't Jewish, so maybe they didn't have their wedding in a church or a temple? I know I'm overthinking it, but it's just one of those things I'm curious about.
When the kids were standing in the background during the vow renewal, it dawned on me that not a single one of them even remotely resembles Jeanette. It's not the first time I've noticed it (none of them are blonde or wear those God awful glasses! haha!), but maybe because they all resemble Greg so strongly, even the girls, that it is part of her deep desire to insert herself into her children's lives more than you average mama bear?
I know Ari is over it, but would it have killed her to have washed and brushed her hair? Jazz needed to wash her hair too, but to be fair (and extra snarky), Jazz always looks like she needs to wash her hair. Or use some dry shampoo & throw her hair up into a bun. I know she's self-conscious about her ears sticking out, but an oily scalp is not attractive. Ever.
Jeanette obviously dyes her hair, Her hair is naturally dark. And all the kids have Jeanette's lips. Griffen looks a lot like her, They say he and Sander are identical, but they don't look the same to me. Sander is cuter and he looks more Greg. Jazz looks more like Greg too, actually she looks more like Sander than Griffen. If she had gone through male puberty, she would have looked like the twin. Ari is a good mixture of both parents.
Your comment of Jazz ears just made me realize something else. I think Jazz is a very cute kid. However her facial features look very large in proportion to her head size. It seems like her nose and ears and mouth don't really fit on her babyish face. I think that is yet another consequence of blocking her puberty. Notice she has the same nose as her brothers. But their faces were allowed to mature, so they grew into their features. Ari's nose is also proportional to her face.
15 hours ago, thebigboot said:“The eight rabbinical scholars interviewed for this article, from institutions like the Jewish Theological Seminary and Yeshiva University, said it’s an urban legend, most likely started because a specific cemetery had a policy against tattoos. Jewish parents and grandparents picked up on it and over time, their distaste for tattoos was presented as scriptural doctrine.”
Also, the rabbinical council ruled in favor of trans people. So yeah, no religious argument on that one.
Which branch of Judaism?? There isn't just one. The Reform branch does not speak for the Orthodox and Conservative branches.
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11 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:
Facial hair isn’t unheard of on cis-females, especially of certain ethnicities or hormonal challenges, so I’m not too concerned. Jazz’s dad seems to be of Sephardic descent, so it may just come with the territory. Maybe Jazz will decide to do something with it or maybe it doesn’t bother her.
Based on their real last name. I'm pretty sure he is Ashkenazi. A lot of them are darker too, like Jeff Goldbum or the guy from the Mummy.
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Writing as a I watch
Tennis scene:
-From my experience a wedding vow renewal on a reality tv show using spells trouble for the marriage. This vow renewal just reminds me of Jon and kate plus 8. They had a big lovey dovey wedding vow renewal episode, and soon after they split up and had a messy divorce. Their whole family is now broken. I can definitely see the Jennings going down that same path.
-Interesting that Gregg is doing a talking head alone, has this happened before? Jon and kate also started doing individual talking heads before the big split.
Kitchen scene:
-I just can't see Jazz as an adult. She is so immature. I feel like Jazz only wants a tattoo to impress Victoria. We have never heard anything about her wanting this until she showed up.
-Wow! Jazz has gotten so used to getting her way, she feels no shame just outright saying she will be upset if she doesn't get what she wants.
-They may as well let Jazz get the tattoo. They've already allowed way more extreme forms of body modification. What difference does it make?
- I get the feeling that Dr Bowers, does not want to do this surgery and is trying to get out of it.
Grandparents scene:
-I love Grandpa Jack. He is so shady and is always insulting people on the low. Did he just lowkey admit that Jeanette and Gregg have considered divorce?? OMG! I can believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them(probably Gregg\) was cheating.
Car scene
-Deep sigh Dr Volker did NOT say she wasn't signing the letter until she looses weight. She said she wants jazz to fix the issue that's causes her to binge eat in the first place. Jeanette and Jazz have serious comprehension issues, that or they hear what they want to hear. Dr Volker should reject Jazz exactly for that reason.
- Yeah Jeanette Jazz might be miserable if Victoria rejects her. But guess what? That's called real life. Hopefully this show wont shame or demonize Victoria if she decides she doesn't want to be in a relationship with Jazz.
Dr Volker's office
-Once again Jazz looks like she's gaining weight, not loosing it. So I doubt she's actually resisting food like she claims.
- The fact that Dr. Volker legitimizes the hypnotherapy bull, makes me question her credibility. Thank God she didn't write the letter.
Bedroom scene
-I really hope Greg refuses consent for the surgery. If Jazz decides to do it when she turns 18 he wont have that on his conscience.
-Looks like Gregg agrees with me that Jazz wants a tattoo because of Victoria. Glad he's still speaking up more. Jeanette really shuts him down when he tries to speak. It's no wonder jazz acts the way she does.
Car /tattoo parlor scene
-Jazz is already complaining about being trapped by virtual school. Tough break you little brat. You wanted it, you got it.
-This tattoo thing is so staged, TLC set this up, not Jay and Victoria. Their not even friends. TLC needs to try harder.
-I still don't buy that Victoria likes Jazz, Their relationship just seems like a little kid with a crush on a much older girl and the girl is nice to them, to not hurt their feelings. .Jazz should forget about Victoria and just date Jay. They would make a cute couple. And Jay seems like she's used to her bullshit.
-That tattoo is ugly. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a temporary tattoo.
Car ride
- Jazz seems almost giddy at the thought of her Grandfather having chest pains because of that tattoo. Kinda odd...
-Jazz does not look like she lost 12 pounds. And something in her eyes and facial expression did not look happy about hearing the surgery date. It was very subtle, but it was there. It's like she was trying to sound happy.
-I still wonder how the orgasm situation is going to resolved. Bowers seemed very concerned about it but has hardly mentioned it since. That's a serious issue that is not going to go away. It would be very unethical to operate on Jazz knowing she will never experience sexual pleasure. I don't care what anyone says. She has already lost her fertility, robbing her of a future sex life is inhumane and cruel.
Club Met/Wedding Scene
-I hate that Tye Dye Dress Jazz always wear. It is very unflattering and she has worn it at least 4 times this season.
- In every scene, Ari always looks like she doesn't want to be there. I don't blame her.
- That is the ugliest dress I've ever seen. And Jeanette's hair looks a greasy mess. Jazz could have used a hair wash as well. I think Jeanette would look better if she got rid of the fake blond hair and wore her natural dark hair.
Dinner Scene
-Greg is adorable for an older guy, He deserves so much better than what he gets.
-I see it's back to Jazz. Leave it to her to ruin yet another family occasion and make it all about her. Once again she looks elated to be causing her grandfather grief.
-Jazz and the family are Jewish, and according to Jewish law it's forbidden to have tattoos and you can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery if you have one, so I understand why the other family members were so upset. However, it's strange how they are so upset about a tattoo, but none of them had any issue with the drastic permanent changes being made to Jazz's body. A tattoo is nothing compared to toying with a child's health by blocking their natural puberty development, giving them estrogen and stunting their growth Just saying.
- I always love seeing the twins allow themselves to be honest about the special treatment Jazz gets. I bet they've had to hold so much stuff in over the years. You can just tell. It's nice to see them let some steam off. Griffin knows his mom very well, he's right on the money about her. "Jazz gets what Jazz wants, pretty much sums up this family."
-So Jeanette signed the consent form without Gregg's permission. surprise surpise. He specifically told her he wanted to talk with Jazz before agreeing. But once again Jeanette heard what she wanted to hear.
- Jazz is rubbing that tattoo in the whole family's face. She is really a piece of work. Grandpa looks so done, he looks devastated.
-Of course Jeanette made a surgery date without Greg. She has no respect for him. Their marriage is dysfunctional and toxic.
- 5 minutes after the vow renewal and it's looks like the marriage is already starting to crumble. Gregg is pissed and like he's going to snap any day now.
- The separate talking heads again stands out for me.
-Wow the look in Greg's eyes at the end of this episode?? All I can say is something has definitely changed
Flash forward scene
6 pounds in 2 months is nothing. I can lose that in a week.
5 hours ago, MegD said:Can someone enlighten me as to why exactly it's so critical she have this surgery at 17 instead of 18? She's woefully unprepared emotionally for it and doesn't seem to actually want to go forward with it outside of the TLC script. Is it because she has to be a "pioneer" or something? She's currently in virtual school so she's at home and I suspect that come next year she'll be contemplating a gap year or staying at home a semester. She's not ready to leave the nest. So why rush surgery when a year could give her a chance to be in the right mindset?
Well they said the hormone Blocker runs out wen she's 17 in the past seasons, so maybe that has something to do with it. They cost $20,000. Messing with nature is not cheap.
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6 hours ago, missnoa said:
I rewatched some of this season's episodes and I really do feel like Jazz was starting to self-sabotage. Like if you watch them all together and get rid of the trappings of the radio show appearances and vacations, I wonder if what's happening is that somewhere inside her, she's terrified of going through the actual surgery - both because of the surgery itself and because if she has it and all her problems aren't massively solved, then she's not going to be instantly happy and that "perfect" person. She has a lot of issues that aren't going to magically go away after the surgery - social anxiety, depression, not wanting to talk about or deal with her issues, self esteem issues, I'm not sure how she'd handle going off to college and not having her mom around 24/7...I hope that when the surgery comes she's truly ready for it.
Not to mention the recovery from the surgery will be gruesome. And the maintenance will be time consuming and never ending. Jazz seems to think she will only have to dilate for 1 year, nope its for life. In addition, it needs to be thoroughly cleaned consistently, because unlike a natural vagina which is self cleaning, a surgically created one will not clean itself. Jazz barely ever washes her hair, so good luck with that.
Then you have to think about the fact that its very likely that there will be complications, especially with surgical method that's being done on Jazz. The doctor in New York said the results were mixed and out of the 15 he's done some weren't very successful.
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3 hours ago, calpurnia99 said:
For the life of me I don't understand this idea for a Be You campaign. Which kinds of schools would take an hour out of their teaching day to make the kids go to this? A public school definitely would not as their days are crammed in with requirements. I know the girl is doing it to pretend she has some kind of "platform" and to advance her singing career. And this kind of thing does not help anybody. Be yourself, be happy, love yourself yadda yadda, everyone is still miserable, hates themselves and on Prozac. She acted like she has all these gigs, going around to schools. Um, no she doesn't. She's a nobody. Possibly some private schools have events with motivational speakers but they would probably have a better resume than: I was on The Voice and I have purple hair and my friend is transgender and has a reality show and I was Rosie the Riveter in my past life.
I agree so much. I'm sick and tired of this trendy "be yourself" crap the media constantly pushes onto kids. Its led to an entire generation of insufferable spoiled brats. Some people need to change themselves. What if a kid is violent, or a thief, or an disrespectful asshole? I guess they should just keep being their "authentic self " and not even bother to improve.
54 minutes ago, kicotan said:You'd be surprised. A lot of the public school teachers in the state of California become "grant writers". They apply for grants from the state to promote whatever agenda they have and it can be very lucrative for a school to have the grant approved/accept the funding for the grant writer's pet project.
I would imagine that a program like Michaela's would be perfect for aspiring grant writers to obtain funding.
Its sad that schools can't just teach reading writing and arithmetic anymore. No wonder test scores are low, it's cause they waste so much time on irrelevant junk
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Writing as I watch
-"Jazz is very mature for her age".......................WTF! No she's not and everyone knows it. Jeanette is so delusional.
-Michaela is still creepy. She is obsessed with Jazz. I can't stand her. Jazz looked like she didn't want to do the singing thing, but gave in and agreed to along with her. The car wash talk was so scripted and forced in.
- This hypnotherapy crap just may make this show jump the shark. It was so stupid and unnecessary. I don't believe even for one minute that any of it was real. The fact that this is considered legitimate psychology is baffling to me. Also Jazz's "past life" just seemed like another (scripted) opportunity to push Jazz's officially approved narrative. I don't believe she binge eats because she's "hungry for acceptance". But I don't think we'll ever know the real reason behind it, because Jazz is clearly in denial, or worse they don't want us to know the truth.
- How does Greg not know about what Jazz is doing in this Hypnotherapy stuff. This family is so dysfunctional.
- Jazz manipulated them to get out of going to school. surprise, surprise.
-Michaela just wants to get on tv and sing to promote herself. I knew she was using Jazz.
-Noelle is nosy as hell, but I'm glad she asks serious questions. She confirmed that Jazz is the one who rejected all the previous guys who tried to date her.
- Of course they gave in and let Jazz do virtual school. Did anyone actually think they would stand their ground?? I didn't. Her leaving school is sad. She has been robbed of a normal youth, and now her childhood is almost over. It's so sad. No Prom, no graduation, and if she can't handle high school, I doubt she will be able to handle college life. It seems like all she has in life is trans stuff. Her entire existence revolves around it.
-Over all this episode was very flat and uninspiring, nothing felt real or organic. The date with Victoria was the only interesting part of the episode. It was less cringey that the previous dates. But I agree that Victoria probably isn't in to Jazz. Seems like she is just being nice.
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On 2/2/2018 at 7:22 PM, Scarlett45 said:
Well I would think cis girls are very different in how they experience sexual feelings. I’m a cis gendered heterosexual woman, but when you say “flushes and tingles” to me that codes as ROMANTIC feelings, sexual feelings tend to manifest as my heart beating faster and blood rushing to my gentials, vaginal lubrication etc the two are distinct even as a teen (I’m 32 so it wasn’t that long ago).
I do think cis girls are conditioned to think of the two as intertwined although they may not always be.
I do wonder how she would describe attraction.
I would think Jazz experiences attraction the way pre-pubescent kids have crushes. So there probably is the butterflies and the flushes, but no sexual arousal involved. Jazz said herself she has never felt sexual feelings.
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This episode just makes me continue to think Jazz is purposely sabotaging the surgery,
She has to know leaving school will be a red flag to any therapist who considers writing her a letter.
And there's no way she actually thought Dr Volker was going to write her a letter after she delivered that depressing spiel during her therapy session. And yet she played along with mom expecting the letter to be given that same day. Yeah right.
I think Jazz knows exactly what she's doing.
This kid is smarter than we think
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1 hour ago, kicotan said:
I could be wrong, but...The consultation they had with Dr. Bowers included more than just a weight loss goal. Dr. Bowers also spoke about sexuality and achieving(or at least attempting to achieve) some sort of sexual stimulation BEFORE the surgery.
Yeah seems like Dr bowers feels its unethical to operate on Jazz if she won't be able to feel any sexual pleasure after. She seems to put a lot of consideration to that when she does her surgeries. According to my tv guide, in the episode after the next Dr bowers will give jazz some kind of ultimatum. I wonder if she will require her to use the testosterone cream in hopes It will give jazz some kind of sex drive.
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I wrote down my thoughts as I watched the episode.
-Is it just me? or did Jazz have a growth spurt? I'm not sure if TLC edits everything in chronological order or not. But I swear Jazz looked noticeably bigger in this episode. And I don't just mean her weight. She looked taller. In the kitchen scene at the beginning I noticed she is almost as tall as the shorter twin (Griffen I believe) now. And her voice sounded deeper at the beginning of the episode as well. Oh and I loved how Jazz pretended to be too fat to play soccer then and then destroyed the whole family on the field later in the episode. Now we know Jazz is just being plain ole lazy when she acts this way.- Kudos to the twins for standing up to Jazz. I am so happy they didn't back down and were actually honest and didnt take any of Jazz's bullshit. My heart soared when Sander told Jazz he was going to put fries in the freezer despite what Jazz wants. It's about time the other siblings start standing up for themselves and stop letting her run the family. Jazz needs to spend more time with her father and brothers and less time with her mother.
- I doubt Jazz came up with the idea for the car wash. She said herself she spends most of her time in her room binging and eating. The producers probably came up with the idea, and they are probably behind Jazz confronting Maya brother and most of the activist scenes on this show( with Jeanette's help of course). In fact I doubt jazz ever hangs out with any of these other trans and lgbt kids when the cameras aren't rolling. I'm not even convinced she and noelle are real friends or even like each other.
-This hypnotherapy story line is dumb and a waste of whoevers money is being used to pay for it. I have said once and I'll say it again. Jazz is not going to lose weight. She will put on a show to get footage for the show, but once the cameras leave, I bet she goes right back to stuffing her face
-I hate the red haired girl. She is creepy. They need to get rid of her. Why is she hanging out with teenagers anyway? I have no doubt she is just using jazz to get attention for herself.
- Greg needs to spend more time with Jazz, especially if they let Jazz do virtual schooling. He needs to get her away from Jeanette as much as possible. It's obvious that he's often in the dark about what goes in her life. I think he would be much more assertive with Jazz if Jeanette isn't there to undermine him. If I were him I would start taking jazz on little road trips on the weekend. Away from Jeanette, and the bubble that she's in, so she can experience the real world for once.
- I'm so glad that Jeanette will have to deal with Jazz all day long if she does virtual schooling. It serves her right. She has been using Jazz to get attention for herself her whole life. Obviously she had Jazz's future all planned out from the beginning. She was so sure that Jazz would just magically morph into the perfect skinny, happy,little trans daughter. And she would be able parade her around like a trophy and be seen as the hero mom. Well, too bad lady. Things didn't turn out the way you planned and now you want to cry??? And of course she won't be able to give Jazz structure, she has let Jazz disrespect all the adults in her life and do whatever the hell she wants for years. Jazz is not going to just start taking orders from her now. I have no sympathy.
- I know it was mean But LOL'ed at grandpa's joke. I love how he's never been afraid of offending Jazz. My grandpa is the same way. I have a feeling that Jazz and Grandpa hate each other. LOL
- I enjoyed the soccer match, it actually felt real and genuine. Jazz actually played for real instead of putting on a front. I want to see more of the family being real and honest and less preaching about trans stuff.
-And we're back to the scripted crap. Does anyone believe Jazz is actually friends with these kids??? This is TLC's car wash, not Jazz's. Seems like most of the people at the car wash are parents and relatives of the kids in the group, not real people. So fake. The "hater" was so fake. And he wasn't even being hateful. He didn't call any one names nor was he rude. People have a right to an opinion.
- Okay we are at the beach scene. I swear Jazz looks like she gained more weight here. She's huge. They must be airing the scenes out of order. That's the only explanation.
-Someone please tell Jazz to stop saying "oh hell to no/yes" its very annoying.
- Again red haired girl is creepy. Stop hanging with teenagers you weirdo!
- I actually like seeing Jazz with Victoria, she was adorable when she asked her out, but I'm not sure Victoria is into her. Jazz is so immature. She needs to find a younger girl, who's more on her maturity level. I thought the date was this episode, but I guess it's next week.
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4 hours ago, Impatient said:
kylies-lips, how did you find Noelle and Jay on Instagram? Do you know their last names?
Just go to Jazz's instagram page, she has noelle at least tagged in several of them.
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On 2/3/2018 at 9:22 AM, Impatient said:
What if, after all this time, all this hormone blocking (why does Jazz mispronounce the word hormone, by the way? She says "hahr-mone", not hormone. Weird), all of this synthetic estrogen, Jazz realizes she is a straight male? Interested in straight girls? Essentially, these scenes get to the very heart of Jeanette's science experiment: has she created a situation in which Jazz is forced to live a celibate, asexual life? And now, not even able to masturbate?
I have long suspected that Jazz isn't attracted to boys, despite all her whining for male attention. Her body language says a lot more than her words. She says that boys don't like her, but we've seen her date a few boys who were interested and she didn't even give them a chance. All the dates she went on with boys were cringe worthy. The first boy Alex was very cute and he tried his hardest to impress Jazz and she basically rolled her eyes the whole time. The date with the trans boy was a disaster and she seemed disgusted with him. (perhaps she was hoping he would have been more feminine looking since he's biologically female?). The date with Shane from dating in the dark was also awkward and forced. Jazz seemed indifferent to the whole thing, she looked like she didn't want to be there. When I'm on a date with a guy I am very aware of how I look and how I behave. I'm usually nervous and act more feminine than usual. It's just a natural reaction because I want to make a good first impression. Jazz's body language screamed "I don't give a f*#k" She just seemed like she was trying to get the date over with. Shane was willing to date her again and she made up another excuse for why she didn't want to see him again. None of the relationships with boys went anywhere and I'm pretty its because of Jazz not the boys. Jeanette and shows producers seem to have their hearts set on Jazz ending up with a straight male Prince Charming. So she probably just has to suck it up and go on the dates until she can make an excuse to get rid of the poor guy.
On the other hand when Jazz met Victoria I noticed her body language was totally different. She looked nervous and immediately started fixing her hair. She looked like she actually gave a damn what Victoria thought of her. I'm interested to see how Jazz will act on their date in next week's episode. I could be wrong, but I suspect she will enjoy it much more than the other dates,
Does anyone else think it was odd that Jazz asked her brothers for advice about girls. I don't know anything about lesbians, so maybe someone can give insight here. Do lesbians normally ask MALES for advice about dating other girls??? Very Odd.
Lastly, I wonder if they are pushing the surgery so hard because of Jazz's testosterone Blocker? I remember Jazz saying back in season 2 that the current Blocker would run out when she was 17. Well Jazz is 17 now, So I'm sure the blocker is on its last leg. And it cost $20,000 so its not like getting a new one is a easy.
Personally I hope Jazz doesn't get the surgery and they let the blocker run out so Jazz can experience some natural puberty (that is if the estrogen hasn't completely destroyed her testicles). Jazz has been told going through Puberty would be absolute torture her whole life, but she might find out that it's not that bad and may even start to like her body if she starts experiencing some "adult" feelings and sensations. And if she's attracted to women perhaps she may want to use that body part with them in the future. Most trans women never get the surgery..
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2 hours ago, Bridget said:
Thank you for the info. Google is great! If anyone has a few minutes, just Google her name and you'll be shocked to see what things she's participated in. I can't believe I've forgotten her existence on one of my favorite shows with four coaches in big red chairs.
The age difference is odd (MP will be 22 in March of this year). I'd hate to think she's using this show as a platform for personal and/or professional gain. I say this because she included "Season 4 of I am Jazz" in her Instagram biography.
I hate to be negative, but something doesn't seem right here, unless there is a major back story between Jazz & Michaela that has yet to be revealed, which is odd because this show is pretty much all about people sharing their own very personal stories and struggles. Hmmm....
I found Michaela pretty quickly on Instagram and she definitely promotes herself on the show like its a part of her resume. I hate how so many adults are taking advantage of Jazz. She has no real friends who aren't using her for something. Even her own mother is using her for attention.
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48 minutes ago, MegD said:
There was so much that she said that seemed to be absolutely parroted from things she's been told over the years, like the dysmorphic comment. She doesn't seem to go deeper into it though because I think she doesn't know what she's not supposed to dislike about herself, only that she shouldn't like who she is. I blame that one on Jeanette. Not because she's "made up" Jazz being transgender, but I think she's made Jazz uncomfortable about how Jazz looks. Suddenly having to face that is going to be incredibly tough for Jazz and I hope they hold surgery until she's further along in it her addressing of her issues for her own sake. Otherwise, I think she'll get the surgery, feel the exact same, and never be happy.
I'm calling bullshit on Jazz's "I don't know how to dribble a basketball." You may be totally unathletic, but I guarantee that anyone under my age (almost 40) was forced to endure some basketball at some point during their childhood. It's a staple of gym time. Especially in private school. She was just being a brat.
Thank You! I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that. Honestly anytime Jazz talks about transgender issues she sounds scripted and like she's parroting someone else's words. It's very easy to tell when she's speaking from the heart, cause she's not that good an actor. And yeah I blame it on Jeanette and the fact that so much of her identity is built around being trans. She has to dislike her body, or else she wouldn't be trans. That's sure to create a mindf**k.
I also agree about the basketball thing. That was total bull. I've seen Jazz playing basketball in other documentaries so I rolled my eyes at her claiming she can't dribble.
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13 hours ago, Impatient said:
I suspect the enormity of it all is weighing on Greg and he is in an untenable situation: either capitulate to his wife and child, and allow irreversible mutilation, or put an end to it all (by refusing the surgery), and at least minimize the criminal liability that I suspect will begin ten years or so down the line. His insistence that Jazz is not yet mature enough stems from his observation, I believe, that he is allowing something to happen to her, that she has no understanding of, but that he DOES understand. Years from now, Jazz accusing him (you KNEW and you let it all happen anyway!!!!) must be haunting his dreams.
There is so much research, reported in peer-reviewed literature, that shows that people who have SRS commit suicide at rates that exceed those of trans people who do not have the surgery. Why is this never ever discussed? Do Jeanette and TLC believe the ONLY acceptable end to the series is Jazz, shiny new "beautiful" vagina installed, married to a cis heterosexual man, with three children (from ova donated by Ari) in tow? How about the end of the series being, Jazz decides to go into intensive therapy for 5 or 10 years, and contemplates what she wants to devote her life to? Without having SRS?
I agree with this so much. It's obvious that he is starting to wake up to the situation. I think Greg has always followed Jeannette's lead because he trusted her and because he wasn't around the house as much. I have noticed when the family talks about how girly and feminine Jazz was as a small child, it is always Jeanette telling the stories of little Jazz doing this or putting on that. I have never heard Gregg talk about noticing anything different about Jazz back then. Gregg was probably at work all day and since Jeanette spent all day with Jazz he just believed whatever she said. From everything I've heard Jeanette self diagnosed Jazz on her own, then took her to a therapist and had her officially diagnosed and the rest is history. And until this season that's the way its always been. Jeanette and Jazz would make decisions when he wasn't around and overrule him and he would just give in, because he wasn't in the loop with them.
I bet he is kicking himself right now. He probably wishes he had been paying more attention back then.
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14 hours ago, Madding crowd said:
The endless talking to her brothers/parents/grandparents about her genitals, sexual libido and other things seem over the top and crossing the line to me. Jazz should be speaking privately to her doctors about things like orgasms, and her sex drive, and then the parents can come in for discussion on surgery. Do her brothers really need to hear every detail? I also think her mother does not need to be in the examining room during a physical exam of her genitals; I stopped doing that when my son was 8 or 9, maybe earlier.
Now see, I agree that the siblings and grandparents shouldn't have to listen to Jazz talk about her personal issues, however Jeanette and Gregg do need to listen and be informed about those things, because they are the ones who consented to Jazz's treatments.
12 hours ago, gingerella said:I was thinking about this last night and I honestly think it's because even though Jazz likes flapping her gums about her bottom surgery to anyone who'll listen, she does not want anyone to ask her anything that might be outside the carefully constructed boundaries of what she deems the truth. She cannot handle anyone asking her tough but necessary questions like "let's talk about your desire to be a woman" and delve deeper into whether or not she really wants to do this.
You hit the nail on the head!
8 hours ago, gingerella said:but she is plowing over and ahead of everyone who dares to question her readiness because she wants what she wants and she wants it NOW. It's really distressing to think they're going to be allowed to go ahead with this, to be honest. She isn't ready.
It could be another reason why she's so insistent. I know when I'm faced with something difficult I usually want to just get it over with. Like when my dog was dying, I was devastated but at the same time I had this strong urge to have him put to sleep as soon as possible, because I knew the sooner the sadness and the pain came the sooner it would go away. It could be that Jazz doesn't want this surgery as much as we think, but she feels like she has to do it and she just wants to get it over with as soon as possible. When you have something heavy weighing on you like that it is very exhausting.
3 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:I get the twins confused, but the one working out with Jazz should be a coach of some sort. He has a certain finesse to the way he says things. In a very motivational way.
Did Aunt Debbie say she found someone else for Jazz to talk to? Because it seems to me then, that she doesn't want to write the letter.
I just can't get over the fact that Cousin Debbie just so happens to work with trans people, What are the odds of that?
Did she go into that field before or after Jazz was diagnosed?
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18 hours ago, J. Matazz said:
I respectfully disagree that no same-gonadal puberty results in no sex drive, given a hypothetical reverse context: If you have someone in Jazz's shoes transitioning to male, does that teen have no sex drive? Our likely difference is colloquial (my usage, for the lack of something more accurate, yet simple to convey) against scientific use of the term in prior posts concerning puberty, and that really is my err for a lack of clarity in differentiating the two since often times I will veer into science. There's naturally some overlap between HRT and a gonadal puberty, in such items such as facial development effects, breast development (in estrogen), voice change (in testosterone) and so on. The glaring difference, as we can surely agree, is that presumably the estrogen implants do not give a rise to LH and FSH, given GnRH agonists (blockers) typically given along with it, to name one immediate example.
I obviously can't speak for when Jazz hit Tanner II in a male puberty, if she hit it at all. I mention this because it is the typical criterion for at minimum blockade these days, but the others I reference here did so at age 12. Interesting point to bring up her brothers though at point of development though, that has some really fascinating merit at the point of action on a number of levels beyond drive. Which raises to me: Do you believe she would have a drive after surgery, long-term? After all, there will be no more blockers at that point, and the adrenal gland still produces a touch of testosterone, of which will be unblocked. For that reason, I'm inclined to believe so, personally.
Not exactly sure what you mean by this? Are you saying if Jazz was a biological female transitioning to a male?
There is some overlap between HRT and a gonadal puberty if we're simply talking about physical changes, however I don't think it can be considered puberty. In one of the last threads I used the example of newborn babies. When Babies are born sometimes they have huge amounts of estrogen in their systems from being inside their mothers, Both baby boys and girls can come out with breast tissue growth. A Baby girl can have a period because the hormones stimulate their uterus. So yes hormones can cause the body to react in a certain way, but that's not really the same as puberty where the brain is also maturing and rewiring itself and turning the person into an adult.
I think this is why Jazz is still so immature, That's why I can forgive her behavior some times. She probably still has the brain of an 11-12 year old child and she is being asked to behave like a young adult.
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17 minutes ago, gingerella said:
@janedi, I'm not sure you are aware of this or not, but @J. Matazz is our resident trans woman in this thread area and we are fortunate to have her firsthand perspective of the trans experience - and her willingness to share that with us freely - and in particular the issues being discussed in this thread. She is also a friend of the Jennings family. Therefore, when she says something, it would seem that a certain level of respect should be given to her comments since they come from firsthand experience, as opposed to book knowledge, as it were. No matter how much book reading an individual does, it does not, not ever will replace actual firsthand experience knowledge from someone who has lived that particular situation.
I'm not sure what it is I said that you are responding to. However even if she is a transwoman and knows Jazz's family, that doesn't mean she is right about everything she says. Unless she transitioned at Jazz's age how can you compare her situation to Jazz's? She implied that the show is exaggerating Jazz's issues, And I simply responded that the issues the show claims Jazz is having make perfect sence when you consider biological facts. The doctors on the show are all saying the exact same things I am. Even Jazz herself said it.
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This episode was very upsetting to me. So I'm just going to leave my thoughts and go to bed.
First off, Yes Jazz was a brat tonight, and yes she was disrespectful, but you know what? I blame Jeanette and Gregg 100%. This is what happens when you spoil your child, give them everything they want and raise them to believe they are "special" all their lives. I'm glad Gregg finally spoke up a little tonight, but it's a little too late. He should have put his foot down years ago. Now they have created a monster that will soon be unleashed upon the world. Jazz will turn 18 in October of this year and they will no longer have any control over what she does.
I feel sorry for the twins and Ari, not the parents. They are the innocent ones in all this. The twins have probably had to deal with disappointment all their lives. I'm glad they at least have each other to lean on. Something tells me the 3 older siblings spend a lot of time hanging out together WITHOUT Jazz and they probably prefer it that way.
Moving on, Jazz confirmed she is no longer interested in soccer, which is unfortunate since she's been playing for so long. I have a theory for why she's not into it anymore, but I'll keep it to myself for now.
I was very disturbed to hear that Jazz basically feels like she needs to "pioneer" all these risky surgeries for other trans kids. That just broke my heart. This poor child should not be made to think that she should risking her health and safety for anyone or any reason. Jazz owes nothing to the trans movement. She was not old enough to consent to being it's poster child. Her parents put her in that position. It disgusts me. And I don't care what anyone thinks.
I also don't like how Noelle basically said she doesn't want Jazz's surgery to go wrong, because it would damage the "experiment" WTH?? Jazz is an individual person not an outgrowth of the trans community. I have never like Noelle.
Jeanette annoyed me (as usual), What is wrong with this woman??? Jazz's orgasm issues ARE your business because you are the reason she can't have one. You made the decision to put her on the blockers, you created the issue, deal with consequences lady!
Dr. Bowers baffled me by telling Jazz to "put her mind into it" and "awaken" her sexual feelings. Does this doctor know nothing about human development? Jazz does not simply have low libido, she has no libido, because she never developed one. And on top of that estrogen kills the sex drive and leaves male genitalia useless. How can she not know these things?
QuoteThe fluid that appears during ejaculation may appear clean and in some cases ejaculation may cease. Sex drive will decrease and may be lost altogether. Exertion of the penis may become increasingly difficult to achieve and to sustain. Some softening of the penis and scrotal tissue will occur. The testes become damaged after a period of 2-5 years and irreversible sterility occurs. It will also increase and redistribute body fat to thighs, buttocks and breasts. Muscle mass may soften, weight gain occurs. Body hair will soften and growth will slow. Even emotions may be affected, mood swings, affect ability to cope, may develop osteoporosis later in life, which may lead to fragile bones.
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On 1/23/2018 at 9:57 PM, kicotan said:
I realize that being able to orgasm isn't the deciding factor in her getting bottom surgery, but I found it interesting and also a bit confusing.
if Jazz has been suppressed from going through puberty, why would sexual attraction or the ability to orgasm be expected?
Simple common sense should tell the adults in Jazz's life that no puberty= no sex drive.
On 1/23/2018 at 10:41 PM, J. Matazz said:Because her body has been exposed to estrogen the past 3.5 years at this point of taping.
I have already explained this in the last thread. Giving HRT to a pre-pubescent child is not a substitution for puberty. I'm sorry if that offends you, but this is a biological fact. Puberty starts in the brain and the brain plays a huge role in development. Blocking puberty is also blocking the brain from doing what its suppose to. So no, estrogen has not and never will give Jazz a sex drive. In fact estrogen has most likely dulled her already non-existent sex drive even further. If you do a google search you can see trans people all over the internet talking about how estrogen has reduced their sex drives.
On 1/23/2018 at 10:41 PM, J. Matazz said:Much as this show wants to paint the view that she's the first to go through a lot of these processes and so forth, she isn't. Make no mistake, she's one of the first. But others who have come and went through this process before her, no male puberty, have had sensation post-surgery, presumably before it as well.
I already explained this as well. The "others" you refer to were probably blocked after they were further along in puberty. A 13 year old boy might still look very much like a child and have an unbroken voice, but is 1 year or 2 into his puberty. The sexual feelings and genital development comes first in male puberty. Then the more masculine features arrive.
All the doctors on the show have mentioned that Jazz is the most suppressed they've seen. You are completely disregarding that. Jazz was blocked at age 11 at the very beginning of puberty. Had they blocked her even 6 months later, she might have had some development down there and a bit of a sex drive, and still looked pre-pubescent on the outside.
Just look at Jazz's brothers when they were about 13 years years old. They could have easily passed for girls at that age, even after starting puberty. The timing of puberty is usually genetic, so Jazz would have followed the same pattern
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44 minutes ago, Impatient said:
I too am a scientist and was appalled at the arrogance of Jazz and Noelle, criticizing the work of the very experienced and reasonable scientist. So much so that it was the first time I found myself disliking Noelle.
I have never liked Noelle, She has always had an arrogant haughty air about her. Don't know why people like her so much. I like Jazz a lot more, because even though she's annoying and I am appalled by a lot of the things that have happened to her. I can tell that if she had had a better upbringing she would have been a great person. Jazz is the way she is because of the way she was raised. Noelle's arrogance is just her natural personality.
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I may get in trouble again for saying this, But I do not like how Jeanette has shut down the very idea that Jazz may change her mind one day and that she constantly voices this.
Jazz saying it is one thing, but Jeanette should keep her mouth closed. Her making these statements is essentially removing Jazz's freedom. I have to wonder would Jeanette be as tolerant and supportive if Jazz decided to go back one day? Would she accept having a son again as fully as she accepted a daughter?
Again I'm not saying this will happen, I'm just saying until the surgery is done. Jeanette doesn't know what the future may hold.
ETA: It's absolutely outrageous that Jazz and Noelle think they know better than the scientist.
(And that's coming from someone who is skeptical of a lot of scientific "research" that comes out nowadays.)
Does jazz really think scientist shouldn't ask questions and research things just because it "negatively affects a lot of people??" So they should just keep quiet about their findings in case they hurt someones feelings??
That's an immature and borderline cultish way of thinking
And sorry but saying "well they weren't really trans" is disregarding those 100+ kids experiences and feelings That's not a real argument. It's actually kinda disturbing and again, cultish.
It makes me think once again, that being trans is so ingrained in Jazz's identity, that if she ever had doubts it would cause a serious inner crisis. She would probably disregard those feelings, force herself to continue and be miserable in order to hold on to her worldview.
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3 hours ago, Impatient said:
Every time Jazz goes out and shops (all the while claiming she hates shopping, which was NOT true before she gained weight), or buying fast food or having her hair painted blue-green or getting her nails done, or getting a pedicure, or going to malls or movies or mixers....... i think "Where does the money for all this come from????" My parents let me use the family car, but I had to replace the gas. I had a part-time job in high school and I had three part-time jobs in college. How is this girl ever going to develop any self-discipline?Actually Jazz has been claiming she hates shopping since season 1. Again go watch the very first episode.
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On 1/14/2018 at 2:16 PM, gingerella said:
janedi, may I ask from what perspective do you say this? Do you have personal experience in hormone blocking?
No I do not have personal experience from hormone blocking. However everything I'm saying is simply common knowledge about puberty and what I have learned watching the various documentaries about jazz over the years. It's a fact that majority of the time male puberty begins with the growth and development of the genitals. It's called Tanner stage 2 and It ends when the big growth spurt starts. Then Tanner stage 3 begins and that's when the the voice changes and other masculine features appear. Jazz was put on blockers at the very beginning of tanner stage 2, I know this because they showed the doctors appointment where they made this decision one of their tv specials. You can find it on youtube. It's called "I am Jazz- a family in transition"
Skylar on the other hand must have been put put on blockers at the end of Tanner stage 2. That is the only logical explanation for why she was able to get the surgery, but hardly has any masculine features.
On 1/14/2018 at 2:32 PM, Muffyn said:So we know from the show that Jazz has small genitals. Part of that is due to suppression. It may also mean she started out with small genitals. She has expressed clearly that her concern with using testosterone cream is a fear of increasing her dysmorphia based on increased penis size. So I think it's more than just being a brat; she thinks it could worsen psychological issues. I feel for her in that it is difficult to know if it is an issue she could safely cope with or would it increase her depression to an untenable point. She has difficult decisions to make on the surgery.
Finally, I didn't see her worrying about having larger breasts beyond the typical issues of finding clothing that is flattering. She did make a comment when looking for bathing suits about the fat under her arms. That wasn't a my boobs are too big comment; that was a I'm putting on more weight than I want comment.
It's just interesting that Jazz says she has dysphoria now even before the testosterone cream, but she didn't seem to have much dysphoria in the earlier seasons. I distinctively remember her telling the doctor in the first episode, that she wasn't sure she wanted the bottom surgery and she had gotten used to her body the way it was.
She's allowed to change her mind of course, but I really wish she would stop claiming that she's "always" wanted this surgery, when that's simply not true.
Why can't she just say "I wasn't sure I wanted it before, but now I know I do". That would be more honest.
I just hope Jazz understands that she doesn't have to get the surgery (most don't) and isn't under pressure to get it done.
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S04.E08: Nothing is Set in Stone
in I Am Jazz
· Edited by janedi
Thank you for this info, it enrages me no one has the guts to talk about this stuff for fear of being demonized. Where are we as a society when people are more afraid of being called a bigot than they are of supporting causing harm to a child's body and health?