[S02.E09: Chapter Nine: The Gate]

I see a handful of people asking what point did Max serve. Well, in my opinion, one key contribution she provided the show was giving Lucas a subplot of his own separate from the other three boys in his group. Granted the subplot was more Max's story than it was his, but at least it allowed Lucas to have something going on in his world. And that was badly needed. Having two straight seasons in which the black kid got nothing to do whenever he wasn't hanging out with Mike, Dustin and Will would have been inexcusable.  Of course TPTB could still do better on that front but adding touches of his home life, introducing his family members and involving him with the new girl and having him form the strongest relationship with her was a step forward in the right direction.

 

Also introducing Max meant adding more gender diversity to the gang of youngsters.  Was too much like "It" with the one girl (Eleven) among the bunch.

[S01.E02: Show And Prove]

33 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

I remember the movies well, and there were a lot of them (though most of them with the same few male leads). But I'm not recalling the pairing with white actresses; if I'm wrong (and my memory's certainly not infallible, nor would I remotely claim to have seen all the movies), may I ask for some sample titles? As far as I can recall, the black action stars of the period were always paired with black actresses onscreen.

Off the top of my head I can think of 100 Rifles, Black Heat, The Grasshopper, HIt!, Report to the Commissioner, Slaughter. Of course in a few of these instances the white woman the black lead bedded may not have been THE female lead, but the point is even having a black man in a scene alone with a white woman would have been unthinkable in the previous decades. Then of course there were scenes of interracial sex in blaxploitation flicks that became the standard bearers such as Shaft, Superfly and I believe Sweet Sweetback Badass Song. There are other examples of course but as of now these are the ones I can immediately recall.  I typically saw those films once at most so it is easy for me to forget which ones had such relationships/sexual interactions take place. 

[S01.E02: Show And Prove]

On 9/18/2017 at 6:23 PM, MCMLXXVII said:

Also, I find it fascinating that this show takes place maybe 10 years out from when Black men in the South were regularly lynched for accusations of looking at a white woman wrong, and a few years post "Loving vs Virginia", but the pimp/ho relationship is completely acceptable in its own way. Granted, it's NYC but the subversion of power is really interesting.

I find that extremely fascinating too. I mean we are also talking about just a few years removed from the Civil Rights struggle. Curious enough as far as Hollywood was concerned, the 1970s was the lone decade in which it had little objection to depicting black male leads as very sexual and in fact often included the pairing of such male leads with white actresses. Those things haven't been seen nearly as much in the decades to follow, even with black male stars who were bigger box office attractions. say what you want about the quality of many of the black films of that era, at least they weren't afraid of black male sexuality. Did the stereotypical viewing of black men as purveyors of sex inadvertently influence their "cool" portrayals on screen during a decade known for its "free" sex counterculture.....or vice versa? 

 

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Yes and no. I mean, I think it will surely provide some sort of equality in terms of nudity. And so far they have been kind of equal. But if we're talking about equality here, I still see a difference. When it comes to male frontal nudity, it usually "random characters", they just hire some extra especifically to do that. It's rarely someone from the cast. In this episode for instance, Ashley was shown fully naked. Do we see male actors from the cast doing the same? And it's not just frontal nudity, but nudity in general. Lori was shown topless for a very, very long time when she was having sex and talking to CC. We didn't see CC naked tho. Do you know what I mean.

 

But we did see CC naked. It was a rear shot.

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I know this is a fraught topic, but I strongly disagree with this. In societal terms, the female equivalent of a man showing his penis is a woman showing her breasts. In both cases they are revealing the part of the body about which others (i.e., those interested in that gender) are most curious, on whose size and attractiveness the owner feels judged (and often feels inadequate), and whose "quality" is considered to embody the owner's sexuality -- their masculinity or femininity.

With all due respect, Rinaldo,  the male equivalent to breast exposure has NEVER been glimpses of the penis. Not technically at least. The penis, as you know, is the external genitalia of the male. The female equivalent is, to get overly technical, is the vulva and the clitoris. And to be fair we don't typically get exposure of that on TV or in movies either. Outside of the face there are three parts of both the female and male body that largely attract people: the chest, the buttocks and the genitalia.  How then did the penis become the equivalent of breasts when it is the male chest that should fit that classification? I get that showing the male chest has never been as taboo, but that is still beyond the point. Many societies around the world decided long ago that showing an expose female chest is obscene, while showing the male chest isn't. But that doesn't mean we should use the penis as a substitute to make up for that discrepancy. There is a reason why glimpses of genitalia used to be limited to Rated X movies. 

[S01.E02: Show And Prove]

3 hours ago, maystone said:

Yours is certainly a well thought-out point of view, but my take is that this isn't a temp job for CC. Pimping seems to me to be a state of mind and an outlook on life (both of those are being generous descriptors) rather than an alternative career. The point of that talk with Lori was to get her to see him as her savior, her caretaker, her long-term lover, her ticket out of whatever hellish experience led her to hooking in the first place. I'm sure he's had that talk or a version of it with all of his ladies.

I think CC would definitely miss the lifestyle. We may think of pimps as the scum of the earth (or maybe that's just me), but my feeling is that they see themselves as bad-ass (OK, maybe not Gentle Richie), stylin', and pretty high up on the ladder of success in their world. I think it says something about CC's commitment to pimping that he's very particular about his wardrobe. In his world view, to be a Pimp is to have a code of behavior and that includes dressing like a man of means.

I agree that Gary Carr is one of the standouts in the cast. His CC is fascinating and charismatic, and I really can't look away when he's on screen.

We'll have to agree to disagree so far as motivations are concerned. Miss the pimp lifestyle? I don't see that as a possible outcome. CC appears to have gotten to his level of pimping pretty quickly for his age but seems smart enough to know there is no long term success story with such an occupation.  His whining about the loneliness and everybody being against him? I'm pretty sure he believes all of that, perhaps a fraction of it is even true. Granted it is all part of his paranoia and problems of his own making, but nevertheless he seems to see pimping as as a life of nothing but headaches and backstabbing. That's different from fellow pimp Larry Brown whom, while outwardly seems more impatient and menacing, appears to like the "job" he has. Larry comes across as enjoying the status he thinks pimping provides him and perhaps that is because he doesn't have any higher aspirations, whether it be in the real job market or in the underworld. He can't see what's coming around the corner and has not complained about the status quo.  CC on the other hand is smart enough to realize he wants out, but doesn't have a clue, the courage or the determination to break away as of yet. He wants that money which to him is probably the only good thing about the job. But the cash isn't making him rich enough to leave it at a moment's notice. That's why he, in my opinion at least, is wistfully thinking about that day in which he will have enough dough to leave the life and New York behind. I just don't think he has a strong enough mindset or possibly enough moral decency to walk away at this stage and that keeps him in place, not his being enamored with the pimp life. 

 

As for pimps being the ultimate scumbags I never get why they receive more disdain in America than, say, mobsters of gangsters who actually tend to inflict far more harm and violence on people of varying guilt and innocence.  Exploiting women? The mob does that as well and often controls the strings of prostitution. Yet somehow they are more romanticized.  I suppose that pimps being viewed by Americans for decades as peacock black men with loud clothing has something to do with it.

[S01.E02: Show And Prove]

On 9/18/2017 at 10:55 AM, numbnut said:

Still find it hard to tell the twins apart. Maybe that's intentional, like the writers are keeping the mustaches so the twins can get away with tricking the mobster later on. I'll need to watch each ep twice because there's so much info. The payroll game went right over my head. Was CC's story (about escaping the life with one special girl) just another carrot? I'm blown away by the actor, btw. Didn't know he was a Brit. His accent is perfection ("brefess" instead of breakfast; a hint of Nooyawkese).

I'm certain CC (or Cee Cee as I've seen listed somewhere else) has had a similar talk with another hooker or two before. Each time it probably happened towards the beginning of the "relationship", when things were still fresh and there was little history of discord between them. As for whether he actually believes this or was lying I think the answer to that is a little more complicated. I don't see him ever going to Paris but I think he himself believes this is possible even if he knows deep down it is not going to happen. This is CC letting his guard down somewhat and revealing his idealized version of what he could be. This is his moment of indulging in all of his big talk of these major dreams he has. Most of us have been there, talking about all the things we are GOING to do.  Often that talk involves the promise of finally leaving that dead-end job and doing something that we always wanted to do instead. But rarely do we do this and CC is no different. Granted he realizes he can't be pimping forever and he probably doesn't like the lifestyle anyway (nothing glamorous about being a pimp), however it is doubtful he has the will power or character to pull himself away, not unless something forces his hand. Thus the talk he gives Lori is not just something he thinks she needs to hear, but more importantly something he needs to hear most of all. It is a way of convincing himself that he is more than just a pimp, that he has a greater destiny ahead of him, that something better is waiting for him. The hard truth for CC is that the only thing waiting him is jail, a terrible death or at best, if he goes clean, an average 9 to 5 job. 

 

Gary Carr is knocking it out of the park, delivering the best performance on the show. His character is full of contradictions, insecurities, and street swag. Despite how terrible he can be he is a magnetic force that you can't look away from.