[S18.E12: No Surrender]

26 minutes ago, WineCheeseChocolat said:

I know people weren't crazy about mini Dodds, but I thought he did a good job of standing up to Benson. Loved it when he leaked the video and was all like "maybe you should stop asking questions....hint, hint" to her. I don't have any hope that when Fin is Sargeant that he will have any real presence or say. And while Benson has been at SVU a whole year longer than him, I would imagine they've racked up similar tenures with the NYPD. I hate seeing him so minimized.

And yes on ADAs taking orders from the cops. I was watching "Guilt" yesterday and there's the fantastic moment where Alex Cabot says to Cragen "I'm not out of line AND I DON'T WORK FOR YOU." How far we have fallen.

That is bloody weird. I wrote that about Barba while watching that episode last night while binging the 3rd season. Thought I heard someone outside..... :) Small world. Thought it was cool that the kid from "Guilt" was in Grounded for Life and so was Declan Murphy.

One of my favorite things with L&O is the guest stars. The episode right before "Guilt" had Brennan from Bones as the victim and as a big film and TV man I always find these things awesome.

How long was Fin with Narc? I feel like he has more experience when introduced in the second season than Olivia seems too, Cragen and Munch are the only ones who seem to have been around longer than he has. He seems pretty knowledgeable  and  has many contacts in the drug world so he must have been working for a bit. Narcotics got Cassidy and SVU got Tutuola. Narcotics definitely got the short end of that deal. Yeah I feel you about Finn. Sometimes I forget he is still on the show.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

25 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

God no to Serena Southerlyn. UO, but I'd gladly take Alex Borgia over her.

Alex Borgia is dead though... take her and Claire Kincaid. L&O Zombie lawyers. Would be funny to see the ADA's who got fired show up as public defenders was all I meant.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

10 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

Having a Barba, Buchanan and/or Rita spin-off would be great!  It could be L&O:P&D.  Law & Order:  Prosecution & Defense.

haha L&O PD... Law and Order Public Defender. Now starring Serena Southerlyn after being fired. (Not for being a lesbian though) and Casey Novak lmao.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

1 hour ago, WineCheeseChocolat said:

 And let's bring Jerry Orbach back from the dead and have Lennie show up sometimes too

What again? Did you miss the one where Max Greevey, Claire Kincaid's head, and Lennie all got back together for one last zany fun filled where all sorts of wild high jinks ensue?

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

What is hilarious is that most people on boards I come across are all in agreement that this show is in downward trend and the reasons why are so easily identifiable and yet it continues. We are the people spending our free time advertising your show and talking about it we are your fan base we might have some ideas for improvements to a dying enterprise. Yet nothing is changed except to get deeper into what people are upset about. I don't think MH, why are we even calling her Olivia Benson when it is Mariska playing herself now, is the only problem here and I know many people are still somehow fans of her recent acting. The problem is NOONE WANTS A DAMN POLITICAL STATEMENT when we turn on something to escape and relax for a bit. We get politics forced down our throats everywhere and we just want a show about cops stopping rapists and hopefully beating them up or having something horrible happen to the rapists in the process.

I think when Cragen left it just left that guiding factor that was so important to keep the show on it's rails. There is really no leadership in the 16th anymore and it needs direction. Maybe it was having strong male characters that countered the fact that every bad guy is a man that balanced things out. The team is kinda a bunch of pussies now. Fin is still cool he just is such a non factor to the show that he doesn't have that strong role.  I would have bullied you too acting like a white knight 24/7 Carisi Go put your fedora back on. Our DA is one of the only ones on any L&O shows who takes orders from the team when it used to be give and take. There is just no balance anywhere when I feel when it used to be perfect.

We just got through like two years of nonstop political crap enough is enough. Let me have one episode of Stabler hitting a rapist or smashing him into a wall. Let me have Olivia, not MH, publicly embarrass some one who thought they would get away with it like she did so well for so long. Give me Munch and his wise ass comments. Give me an almost black Ice-T again. Let me hear George Huang solve the case in the first five minutes and then wait the rest of the show for the team to catch up to him. George Huang can out Horatio  Horatio Caine from CSI Maimi. What a cool character he was. I want to see Alexandra Cabot again with her take no prisoner attitude. Make the characters different from each other in some way so they aren't just cardboard copies of MH. 

NBC please just give me one episode of real SVU again before this show ends.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

19 hours ago, skittl3862 said:

Ah, thanks. I thought the similar rankings might have some mutual equivalence. It just seemed odd to me that Beth insisted on being called "Captain", but then didn't return the courtesy by referring to Benson as "Lieutenant".

No similar equivalence but military will always consider itself better than just a civilian organization. Almost no civilian jobs outrank military versions but almost all military versions of a job will outrank the civilian one.  She maybe a Lieutenant but its just a police lieutenant. She should call Beth Captain and not necessarily the other way around. I would take anything my sergeant said over what she was trying to tell me.  Most will treat civilians with respect and use their rank when referring to them just as a matter of courtesy but I don't know any that would cede any command to a civilian. I would have called Benson Detective or detective lieutenant

There are many civilian contractors that work side by side with military members and receive more pay with less stress without military rules so it is not unusual to deal with civilians while working at a duty station.

Many veterans join the police and similiar organizations after leaving the military so there is a form of camaraderie there. When you are in the military you see a lot of stuff that other people aren't able to relate to. The whole way you communicate changes to where many people won't understand what you are talking about because of acronyms and military slang. You take a lot of pride being a vet and its hard seeing people just doing civilian work because the scale of what you are working on or for is completely different and with differences in discipline it becomes easy to look down at people's work as not as important as your own.

I refereed to people as Ma'am, Sir or whatever position they held that relevant to our interaction. I just used people's titles madam director, HR manager etc. I think most people do this ex military or not.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

Deleted. Because I went on a rant about how in no way is PC  like having manners and I would make the argument that being PC is the opposite of being a decent human being. It was pretty funny. This post would have made you laugh and cry. You would have stood up cheering at the end though. This was the best post on previously.tv before I deleted it.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

6 minutes ago, hovegeta said:

you know i use tumblr and it seems to depend where you use tumblr if you get the ultra preachy sjw people, there are people there who are actually nicely level headed and explain how to be pc without being on a high horse or being preachy, if the writers are using tumblr, they are using the wrong part of tumblr

Isn't being PC being preachy? Thinking you have the right to tell people how to act, think and talk to fit the way you demand seems like being on a high horse to me.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree wholeheartedly about the ultra PC rape culture PSA tone. I think that it started around the time the SJW bullies rose up a few years ago, they were attracted to the show because of Mariska's real life feminism and advocacy for rape victims, and they started having meltdowns on social media about non PC jokes and comments and so the show became very preachy and Mariska stopped acting and started playing herself. I think that MH in real life is extremely similar to Benson now. I think that Mariska is the reason why the SJW thought police have been drawn to SVU but not other crime shows and that's why SVU has more preachiness.

This. Exactly right in every way.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

Would love to see another episode where Benson's nonsense comes back to haunt her. I know there are episodes where some of the innocent people she put in jail come back to get revenge on her this would be great in the newer episodes. Imagine an episode from the bad guys perspective kinda like CI. He is falsely accused of rape by his ex girlfriend who he finally dumped because she would beat him. He hasn't left previously because they have a special needs child together and he is terrified something will happen to their son, same age as Noah, if he leaves her. He gets the courage after seeing her strike the child. Benson sees her as the victim and believes her while finding every way to undermine his defense. They get to trial he goes to prison where he is raped and murdered. Four months later, Finn drops a newspaper on her desk with the headline talking about the mom killing the special needs child.

It would perfectily show how the way she acts and treats people is completely out of line and has consequences. Having more of it from the guy's POV would be awesome too because we would just have a cop out to get him for seemingly no reason. I think it would change completely how everyone sees the way she acts.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

2 hours ago, sockii said:

Sigh. Sorry for the sidetrack...But I'd rather a show that's occasionally dated in its use of language and attitudes than a constant SJW soapbox with no likeable characters, no interesting and different storylines, no actual drama to keep things engaging. And honestly I feel like there is plenty they should be complaining about with the current show instead, particularly with how Fin is treated, or generally ignored/ordered around when he's only second to Benson in seniority by ONE YEAR at the 16th. That's offensive to me, particularly in a case/episode such as this one where he absolutely should have taken the lead, and would have been better equipped to relate to Captain Williams.

I was amazed watching season 1 pilot? Where they keep making non-PC comments like people actually would and no one sues them or fires them over it at all. In Mothership they had  Paul Robinette, a black ADA,  admit that black people are committing way more crimes than other races of people and that he was worried about black youth. I thought this was an insane move that could never happen now and would prolly end a show today. It made perfect sense then and honestly Robinette should come away with the same view after seeing the same facts today. This is a fear that made sense with the episode and everything the people had experienced living in NYC before Rudy Giuliani was mayor and there were like 3-5 homicides a day in NYC. 

People in real life don't talk like they have a filter on all the time unless they have to. Maybe one of the people hired to the 16th Precinct that we don't ever meet is a huge snitch and rats on everyone in the office for ever having an opinion on something. Usually when an office changes politics as drastically as it did with this show it is due to internal politics. I would have to point the finger at Ken Briscoe. He just seems to be up to no good. That guy is doing sandwich runs do not tell me that he isn't filling complaints against everyone all the time.

2 hours ago, angel1008 said:

Ooh, can we have a Barba spin-off?  That would be awesome!

Would love to see Barba Buchanan spin off.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

The SJW fanbase is not that large just very vocal. Most fans of a show won't sue the show if something bothers them during an episode sjws do. That vocal group of fans is also backed up by a mainstream media telling them what they are doing is right so it reinforces the behavior. This is a very fickle fan base where as soon as something isn't cool on FB or Twitter they switch to a different topic they can continue to protest. Hard pressed to think of a show that people with that PC mentality didn't set out to destroy or just water down the show so much that any message is lost but I guess that is their goal. Hard to experience real life when you are  watching it pass you by from the window in your safe space.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

1 hour ago, skittl3862 said:

See, to me, those episodes are bad, but they're camp, so I can still re-watch them, roll my eyes and laugh at ProstituteBenson or SwingerBenson or ShroomsBenson. This episode was just irredeemably bad.

I think the parody episodes are awesome. Some more than others. It was so over the top and just wild that you could never guess what would happen next. It was fun to watch though. Many times I felt like I was watching something that could only happen in the L&O universe and I loved it for that. I tuned in to get that clang clang feeling. Went from a show that was like ok that makes sense I could see how they got to that part from there to a show where you were like WTF How did that happen but where you didn't leave during commercial breaks because you couldn't afford to miss a twist. Now the show is not even doing that.  I wish I could talk about this show without complaining.

 

19 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Lots of good points being made here. I like the Warren Leight years better than the Neal Bear years as well, because the Leight years were much more realistic and straightforward while in the Bear years the show just piled on outrageous twist after twist to the point of the show being a parody. Warren brought the show back to what it was in its best years and seasons 13 and 14 had some great episodes and were almost as good as the shows golden years in seasons 2-7. Season 15 was when it got weaken, Munch and Cragen left and they were 2 of my favorites and most people liked them as well, and they never let personal biases or agenda's get in the way of cases and they weren't afraid to play devil's advocate and argue an unpopular opinion. Without them and with Benson in charge, Benson started dominating the screen time and jumping other characters who disagreed with her and her "the woman never lies" view. Also giving Benson a kid was stupid, and I don't give a fuck about her constant circle of law enforcement boyfriends. Her personal crap got too much screen time. And it's pretty clear that Mariska has jumped at the chance to push PSA messages in episodes and to portray Olivia as an all knowing saint who is the only one who can stand up for women and bring rapists to justice. It is very irritating how everything has to be about Olivia and how MH acts like she's in a soap opera with overdramatic expressions when something goes wrong and then she has to save the day. The current writers seem to be in disarray and don't know what to do and are just letting MH call the shots

I wonder if the writers are even aware of a problem with their show. Are they all drinking the Mariska kool-aid? People have to tell them that they are putting out a crap product and yet for them to continue to do so would mean that someone somewhere is telling them they are doing good work and they aren't. I think SVUs past made it such a powerhouse of TV to where that everyone I know says they love the show. I have never met anyone who didn't like L&O. I think this has given a false message to studio higher ups that their show is good when it is just the back catalogue that people talk about with me when we mention it.

[S18.E12: No Surrender]

While a better episode than what we have been getting in recent weeks; something about this episode just seems to be off. After 18 years I think this month's episodes have been the coffin nail in my viewing of this show. I love this show watch it like an insane person but I gotta accept that it is just not there. It began as a cop ensemble show and now just feel like episodes are copied and pastied from earlier seasons just now they use worse actors, writers and PRODUCERS!! I too feel like it's gonna just gonna be allowed to air till hell freezes over. They have taken all the thought out of this show and it feels very basic. They knew people would watch it because it is L&O but there is absolutely no effort being put forth into this show now. I wonder if the staff gets together and says lets see what we can get away with on L&O next week and lets double whatever fans were complaining about in the last episode.

So been a great ride but I think this episode was the end for me. Too Bad.

[S18.E10: Motherly Love]

I thought the car scene was inappropriate but that the hug the mother was allowed to give the main witness during the trial even more strange. The son was never molested so it is not like he was a rape victim that suddenly had a similar person touching him. He was a person who had just lost his mom for reasons that made no sense to him and that he couldn't easily explain. His mom was turning on him too so he went from having a maybe loving mother to suddenly having one that actually wanted him harmed.

In that sense having a woman of a similar age comfort him would make some sense but is still extremely inappropriate and probably really messed with the kid's head after the trial. I wonder if he developed feelings for Benson because with him losing his mom he would easily misunderstand that Benson was just manipulating him to get him to testify in the way that Benson wanted.

[S18.E09: Decline And Fall]

1 hour ago, Desperately Random said:

I disagree with this assessment of Benson being used as a sex object. In the earlier seasons, the character did use the fact that she was an attractive woman to her advantage with suspects but I have not seen that in several years now.

How do so many complain about the way she manipulates Barba and sticks her breasts in his face and  yet disagree that she uses her sex appeal? I agree with you entirely about the bad direction the show has gone because of MH and miss the ensemble cast. I think MH just assumes the audience shares her political views and so forces them down your throat. It really makes no sense the direction of this show as it has alienated many fans as evidenced by these threads and every other forum I could find discussing this show. I feel there was a demographic audience change when she became a producer that has gotten pushed through more and more lately as she assumes more power.

[Wigging Out: Season 1 Anticipation]

1 hour ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Only if by solving crime you mean marrying someone to steal all their money.

Yeah but are they assholes who are being robbed? Oceans 11 style?

[The L&O: SVU Spoilers and Spec Thread!]

I think it will have to do with him covering up a crime someone close to him committed.  I don't think it will regard his sexual orientation because who cares about that anymore or that it will be about him being a closet pedophile or rapist because that would make no sense and I really hope that is not where they take this. I just strongly feel that he helped someone get off with  a  crime and now they are either blackmailing him or he is communicating with a woman who was raped and killed her rapist and Barba slept with her during or after the trial when the office is hacked this all is revealed. Something along those lines would make for good viewing

[S18.E10: Motherly Love]

16 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just a friendly nudge to return to topic, which is this episode. L&O: UK has its own forum if one wishes to chat about that show!

I am new to Previously.tv is there a place for fans to discuss to both shows on the same thread? Law and Order is a pretty extensive franchise and many conversations about this show naturally bring up other Law and Order shows. I am just interested in discussing how different shows and cast reflect on each other how characters from one would be a better fit on another or to help a fan find a way to view this show. Is previously.tv just for discussing the content of an episode or am I just posting in the wrong thread? Everything began by discussing this episode and evolved naturally to talking about UK because of all of our interest in L&O

[S18.E10: Motherly Love]

45 minutes ago, TimWil said:

Dominic Rowan's black hair on L&O: UK mesmerized me. OK, I'm shallow that way. I saw him stroll down St. Martin's Lane in London one night and resisted the urge to follow him!

I think I caught that episode of SVU about you "following" him. All in good fun.

[S18.E10: Motherly Love]

Is there a PM function? I can walk you through it since this is pretty off topic Use website daily motion and search for law and order uk. it is like YouTube. Since you aren't that computer savvy this is your best bet. I am watching it now on there so it works no problems. Let me know if you were able to watch law and order on there. We are TV lovers so hopefully there are no issues with posting this.

[Wigging Out: Season 1 Anticipation]

Looked kinda like a modern revision. The Pretender was a show about a man who was able to learn any job assume any identity to solve a crime or resolve a situation. Am I way off base here?

[S18.E10: Motherly Love]

Do the rules allow me to post links to streaming sites? It is easily got by less than savory means or so I have heard. A simple Bing search of what you want will come up with many places to stream and download. I once heard someone somewhere on another board on another site in another lifetime saw it on Primewire and Putlocker. It is on Dailymotion as well.

[S18.E10: Motherly Love]

10 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

When Mariska rides off into the sunset with Noah, who just survived a gang shooting as well as a dive off the kitchen counter, that would be a great spinoff!

Ride off into the sunset? I thought it has already been confirmed by MH and supported by the 17-18th seasons that the show will end with  the clouds parting and Benson ascending to heaven in her white jacket, a choir of angels backed up by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing Olivia Olivia Olivia. Her last act to create world peace and end rape (except prison rape which she seems to be a huge supporter of).  It will look pretty similar to the ending of The Matrix. She could even hang up a phone saying, "We will" to a victim before floating up and out.

[S18.E10: Motherly Love]

I agree with everything you said. I have even considered going to Law and Order UK to get my CLUNK CLUNK fix. Those 6? 8? seasons are all new to me and hopefully would have that old Law and Order spark that I am missing. There just is nothing like the twisted weird nasty feeling that SVU would leave you with. The way almost every episode ends on a bad note the feeling in your stomach after watching a couple episodes. The only episodes that end on a good note are when a child is returned or something horrible happens to a rapist and even that can feel sick knowing its another human being. SVU was certainly one of a kind CSI tried to do some of the horrible subject matter that SVU was able to do successfully for so long but nothing really gets into that almost unbelievable nasty factor like this show.