JayCeeJ
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Posts posted by JayCeeJ
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6 hours ago, ScrapNini said:
Gah! I have said it before, but I will say it again.... I hate that they brought Michael back. Both Jane and RAF have grown so much as people in the last four years. Michael was a childhood play thing (yes, I realize they were adults, but they were young...) people grow and they don’t necessarily grow together. Jane is not the same girl she used to be. She is stronger, and more confident.
Michael doesn’t want the person Jane is now... he wants the Jane she was at 23. Her family is with Raf, her best self is on display around him, she is never afraid to tell him what she wants or needs.
In writing her and Michael’s “love story” she created a fantasy out of her relationship with Michael. It will never have the happy ending she wrote.
This is so infuriating. I would so much rather see other loose ends get tied up than watch the simpering Michael continue to emotionally manipulate Jane.
((I know, it is pretty lonely in the I Hate Michael Club; but if you want to join, membership is free and we have a secret handshake.)) 😊
You're not alone. I've never liked Michael and his return is not a good twist for the show. I don't want to revisit the triangle. I want to see Jane and Raf move forward and bring the other storylines to a satisfying conclusion by season's end.
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Martin Henderson starred in one of my favorite movies, "Bride and Prejudice." Because of that I gave "Off the Map" a shot. It was horrible, and sadly, he was not good in it. Can't speak to any of his other work.
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What they save in salary they're going to lose in ad dollars when the ratings drop next season.
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They're also running behind on production for both GA and Scandal, so they're scrambling. GA just finished shooting 11x23 last night! I expect 11x22 will be filled with flashbacks and added commercials to pad it into a two hour time slot.
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I don't think that's fair at all to pin the success on Grey's on one actor/actress.
I'm not claiming he was solely responsible for the show's success. But he played a very big part in the show's becoming the phenomenon it once was and has continued to be the face of the show in ABC's marketing. Even the atrocious hashtag campaigns used in the run-up to last week's episode are testament to that. Given that, he deserved a better sendoff and so did we.
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Okay, accepting that premise, the converse is also true. The show arguably wouldn't have had the success it has had without PD as its male lead and breakout star. He's been the face and main ambassador for Grey's for 10 years. Shonda Rhimes today certainly would not have the success she's had, and the power she has accrued, without Grey's and PD's contribution to that. At the very least he (and the fans) deserved more than the rushed, sloppy, brutal episode Shonda wrote.He wouldn't have much of a career, racing or acting, to ruin if not for the show is my point.
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As pointed out elsewhere, in the past year PD lost his mom, split with his longtime racing partner, and watched his wife file for divorce. Wealth and fame notwithstanding, that's a crap year by anyone's standards. Might all that have affected his work life? Of course. Is that an excuse for (alleged) bad behavior? No. We'll probably never know what went down BTS; I think there was probably fault on both sides. What did happen is that his exit from the show was written in a way that seemed rushed, sloppy, and frankly offensive to many fans, myself included. ABC and Shondaland clearly miscalculated the depth of fan and media reaction, and as a former PR/media relations professional, I have to say they are badly mismanaging the PR mess they've created.
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Don't even get me started on the geography. So ludicrous! Derek's land is a ferry ride from downtown, so most likely somewhere on Bainbridge Island. There's no way the drive from the ferry terminal to the airport takes him out into the sticks and away from cell coverage. He's lived here for years now; he couldn't get that far lost. :-) Do they really think there are no GA viewers in this part of the country?
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But also at those racing events PD sits there at a table for hours, while hundreds of fans come up to say hi and have him autograph their GA posters, DVDs, their butt or whatever. But that doesn't get any attention in the entertainment media.
I've been thinking about this point as I watch the outpouring of support for PD. He's winning the PR war at this point. I'm surprised by the extent of it, and I'm a fan. And it occurred to me that he travels so much, not only for racing but various charity events, that he seems to have much more direct contact with fans than most of his castmates. He always gets asked about GA, does interviews with local ABC affiliates, and essentially serves as an ambassador for the show, in addition to whatever else he's doing. I think maybe Shonda et al have seriously underestimated the value of that.
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While I think it was always her vision, Shonda could never have attempted this but for 1) the power she now wields at ABC, and 2) PD's racing commitments. (And the timing assumes that Shonda knows S12 will be EP's last.)
Even with that, I'm sure ABC took a lot of convincing. I think the Derek-less early episodes were a trial run to make sure the sky would not fall, ratings-wise. And I think PD would have fought against it (or his agents and their lawyers? - I don't know how actor's contracts/options work) up to a point.I suspect you're right about Meredith on her own (or with Cris) being Shonda's end game, and I thought at the time that PD's six-ep absence was a trial run re ratings. I also think this will prove to be a miscalculation on the part of both Shonda and ABC. Derek being away but expected back is one thing; Derek dead, thus no more MerDer ever is another thing entirely. I expect (and frankly, hope) that the post-funeral ratings will reflect that.
I'm not convinced, though, that this was settled months ago. This season has been incredibly choppy and inconsistent, even for a show with traditionally horrible continuity. I now think that's evidence of ongoing BTS wrangling and TPTB trying to leave themselves options.
Whatever strained relations existed BTS, Shonda and ABC have acted abominably. PD and EP and their chemistry were the spark that made this show happen in the first place. I'm not trying to be an apologist for PD--I'm sure he's no saint, and it can't have been easy working around his schedule--but the truth is that Shonda (not to mention the rest of the cast and crew) would not be enjoying the success and adulation she now does without his contribution. To dismiss that in such cruel, slapdash fashion, without so much as a public acknowledgement or thank you for 11 seasons, is reprehensible. Whatever SR's personal agenda with PD, this was also an awful and unnecessary slap at legions of loyal fans who invested 10 years in MerDer and their story. I've been fascinated by the huge reaction in both traditional and social media. Since Scandal hit so big, Shonda's grown accustomed to awards and adulation (her self-congratulatory Twitter feed documents it constantly). I'm sure she thought she could make this "bold move" and be lauded for it. I think she badly underestimated public affection for the character of Derek Shepherd, and by extension, PD. The fallout will be interesting, for sure.
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Hopefully. I do find the cast's silence a bit odd. KMK and Kelly did tweet about it but the rest were surprisingly quiet.
That's what seems so bizarre to me. Not a single member of the cast, even EP, could say "goodbye and good luck" to a colleague after 11 seasons? WTF? Did PD kill someone's puppy? Can't help but wonder if they were under orders to stay quiet or dare Shonda's wrath.
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So it possibly started out as an issue between PD and IW (or IWs OTT anger issues or PD being late or something) and didn't even involve TRK until IW started throwing around slurs. I think a lot of it might have been jealousy re "McDreamy" press PD was getting at the time. Which is stupid because IW had by far the meatier part.
Can't remember where I read the story, and obviously it was years ago, but my understanding was that IW had originally auditioned for Derek and resented losing the role to PD. Once PD became the show's breakout star it only got worse. And if true, it was silly on IW's part because he got much better material.
Supposedly the blowup stemmed from an incident when they were on location shooting the S3 ep with all the guys off in the woods. PD shot his scenes then got pulled away to do local Seattle media and IW had to shoot his scenes opposite PD's stand-in. When they got back to the LA set it all came to a head, and then to blows.
I have always been convinced that Shonda never got over having to fire IW, thus her eagerness to bring him back for SO's exit (and give Burke his happy ending - a thing almost unheard of in Shondaland).
Interesting tidbit: I never knew that PD and IW had worked together years before Grey's, but several years ago I stumbled across a 1997 TV movie called "The Player," based on the Tim Robbins movie of the same name. Guess it was a pilot that didn't get picked up. PD starred in the Tim Robbins part; IW had a small part as a personal assistant/secretary who worked for him. It was quite a trip to watch them together in such different roles.
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If PD did request an early release from his contract, I'm sure it will be made public and he will catch plenty of heat over it. (Fortunately, I don't think he ever reads his mentions, and I'll bet he's very glad to be out of the country at the moment.)
I don't believe he's a saint, but I sure couldn't blame him for wanting out. He's been underutilized for years, and that's got nothing to do with his schedule. There have been many times that his character has been set up for potentially meaty material, but the writers have never followed through. That's got to get old. He's never publicly dissed the show or his colleagues, and by all accounts has been consistently gracious with fans. While everyone else associated with the show focuses on promoting whatever the writers have cooked up, he's the only one I've ever seen ask what the fans would like to see on the show, and that impressed me.
I'm convinced a Shondaland tell-all would be a fascinating read. Maybe someday ...
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I think she objectifies men the way male writers so often objectify women. That's why so many of her male characters (all, I think, except for IW) have left the show in a box. They're only accessories for the female characters.
Yes, absolutely - the men serve as props for the women. Hence Shonda's oft-stated notion that the show's true love story was always Mer/Cris.* Even the actors have pointed out the unhealthy nature of that relationship. The only time it seemed to shift was in S8-9, when Tony Phelan and Joan Rater (married in real life - no coincidence) were running the show.
*Wonder how she'll explain Cris not being there for her person if Der dies?
Straying off topic, so I'll stop.
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I hate to say it, and I so want to be wrong, but the scenario posted upthread seems very likely to me.
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She also says she could not kill some characters, and my belief is that those characters are/were Meredith, Cristina, and Bailey.
Agreed. SR once said that in her original draft of the shooting, Bailey got shot. But she couldn't stand to hurt Bailey, so she changed it. So all the main characters who got shot were men: Derek, Alex, and Owen -- and we didn't get to see aftermath for any of them.
I'm a proud feminist, but I will never understand Shonda's ideas about women and the men in their lives.
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They were casting a pregnant patient for 11x23, so that's probably the reason.
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I do think the question will be answered Thursday. If PD is really leaving and Derek dies, the show will want to get past that quickly, and we know from sides that there's a significant time jump in the following episode. If the ep ends with Derek's fate unresolved, then we're all wrong and PD is staying, but at this point I think that's very unlikely.
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To me, the scenes in the past two episodes have been just too poignant and significant for PD not to be killed off, at this point. I'm not completely naive, I've been watching this show for a decade of my life and know they like their fake-outs. But I also know if they were ever to kill him off they WOULD bombard the fans with old-school references ('you were like coming up for fresh air', 'wait for me') and sweet moments.
I wish I didn't agree with you, but all of this makes sense. It's easy to assume from the over-the-top promos that it's a misdirect, but SR does love the big shocking moment. And if PD has an early release from his contract (either at his own behest or through a network decision), then Derek's death is the most likely scenario. I however, have no desire to watch Meredith as a grieving (pregnant?) widow. If Derek's gone, so am I.
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In the ferry photos, Derek's wearing the same clothes he's wearing when he leaves the house in 11x19. It seems more likely it's an opening scene for 11x21.
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Diehard MerDer shipper here: I will not watch if he's gone. I have no desire to see Meredith grieving, nor do I have any desire to watch her move on with someone else. Ten years/eleven seasons of a constant relationship tossed away in a few episodes? No thanks.
Preach it. If the show really goes there I'm done. Doesn't look good though. Shonda writing 11x21 is a bad sign. Adding in multiple reports of PD being done "for the season," and now the news that EP is doing Kimmel the night 11x21 airs, I've got a very bad feeling about this.
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All the signs certainly point to something big. I was very surprised to see them spring for the Seattle location shoot with PD on Thursday. I can't remember the last time they bothered to do location shooting up here.
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My theory is that the critical success of the show up until that point allowed Shonda to take control from some of the experienced people that ABC had working with her, like Peter Horton and Mark Gordon. And then she went hard in the soap-opera direction.
Yes! I've always thought this. In the early days, there were others who could push back against Shonda's worst ideas. Once she got free rein, things started to go downhill quickly. I remember a quote from PD in relation to the musical ep. He said something about Shonda having lots of ideas, some better than others, and now having the power to make any of them happen. Seemed like he was trying to be diplomatic about it, but it was no secret that he opposed that whole thing -- I really respected him for refusing to sing in it, especially after I saw it!
These days, it feels like the junior varsity is putting Grey's together. Shonda's been distracted with her shiny new projects, most of the original creative team has moved on, and it seems those who've stayed have gotten promoted to writing, directing and producing roles they may or may not be ready for.
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Haven't read the sides, but here's a point of fact re PD and the Porsche: His current racing sponsor is Porsche. The company is highly unlikely to sign off on a product placement that has one of their drivers crashing one of their vehicles.
Will there be a character death? Who knows? Frankly, I think this show could stand to lose a doctor or three from the bloated cast, and I have several candidates in mind. :-) Derek's my favorite character, so I admit I'm hoping it's not him, and I don't think it's likely to be. While I think Shonda would kill Derek in a heartbeat--it's just the kind of attention-grabbing, shock value moment she lives for--I don't think the network would let her. For all the lip service about Grey's being an ensemble, ABC's promo materials consistently present EP and PD as the faces of the show. Last year they both signed two-year extensions which would take them through S12. Unless there's been some change in PD's contract, I don't think Derek's in danger.
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Figure Skating
in Sports
U.S. Figure Skating tweeted links to both Nathan's and Jason's programs, in case anyone is still having trouble. Still can't believe NBC cut them from the live feed.