Harleycat
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Posts posted by Harleycat
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So what kind of Dad was Sam supposed to be? His kid didn't seem too sad about him dying.
How would he describe Sam? A paranoid, functioning alcoholic who has workaholic tendencies, rarely expresses his emotions, and is apparently obsessed with his brother who died before his kid was born. Sounds like a super fun household to grow up in.
I think I would have preferred it if Sam hadn't had a kid. He said so many times throughout the series that that wasn't what he wanted. I think I would have preferred for him and whoever he ended up with to just be happy. Maybe they would be van lifers or something.
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Re-watching Glee and can't help but notice how dated the show was at times.
I mean, shouldn't have Mr. Schuew been very fired when he suspended a 15 year old from glee club for refusing to dance around in a bikini in front of him during the Katie vs. Gaga week? Shouldn't her mother, who works at the school and is trained as a school employee on grooming behaviors, spoken up?
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On 4/17/2020 at 9:37 AM, Bouffe said:
I have not minded the whispering at tribal council. But last night, it really bothered me. The worst was the whispering after Jeremy left (which I think was a tough decision on his part, but ultimately I think he would have gone if he had not played his advantage).
I wonder if Jeff/production could give the contestants a time limit to whisper at TC? After that, no more, and if they do, they get some kind of penalty (whatever that may be).
It's always bugged me, but this episode was just ridiculous. They need to write into the rules that it won't be tolerated anymore. TC is for discussion, not to play little mean girl games.
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On 4/17/2020 at 5:41 AM, ProfCrash said:
Kim should have just given the immunity idol to Jeremy to play on himself. He was the obvious target and everyone knew it. If Jeremy has the idol, he stays at tribal and they have a better chance of pulling off the upset.
Then Kim would have had to say that she sees that they are targeting minorities, which is usually what happens after the merge.
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I don't think I've ever been so disappointed at Jeff as I was at that tribal counsel. As soon as the players even suggested getting up in the middle of tribal counsel he should have told them to sit their asses down and act like adults.
All of the whispering and everyone sitting there not actually saying anything has gotten out of control. Jeff needs to set some ground rules for tribal counsel. It is supposed to be a forum for them to talk about the week, instead we are getting a bunch of grown adults acting like 3rd graders at recess. I am embarrassed for this entire cast for choosing to represent themselves like that on national television.
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51 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:
I watch nearly all the CW superhero shows and the old-school SPN fit FAR better with those than Dabbernatural. Even the more brightly-coloured, campy shows would not dream about disrespecting themselves as much as the current Chuck-story on SPN.
And while all those shows definitely had/have their own writing pitfalls, not one tore down its own source material like that via "haha, we are just a dumb story". So far Supernatural has tried "hey, remember that guest star" in its final Season and all that. Well, technically so did the final Season of Arrow, exact same thing, just, you know, they managed to make it work.
I don`t know any show on the CW or any other network that went so meta, they deliberately took a sledgehammer to its own source material. Noone does that. Except Dabb and the current ego-crew.
They took the humor that came from the characters having self awareness that they are in ridiculous situations (like having an angel and a demon in their back seat) and stuffed it down the viewers throats over and over again. It just doesn't work, it's not enjoyable for anyone to watch.
Instead of the show being about the story they try to make the show about the show.
Really for me the bunker was the beginning of the end, because it made the brothers world not grounded in reality anymore. I think my favorite time for them was actually when they went off the grid and couldn't even get motel rooms. It was a real world obstacle that they had to work around to contrast their monster hunting jobs.
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17 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:
But the supernatural villains have been handled as horribly as the BMOL. AU!Michael? Wasted potential. They could have done so much with the character. They could have done so much more when he possessed Dean and yet zilch.
And now Chuck and the endless meta that the writers obviously think is so clever? Horribly mishandled and show-destroying.
Season 12 sucked. But so did Seasons 13, 14 and 15 so far. There is not one good Season among those IMO. You may have 1 decent episode per Season but not even a stretch of those Seasons that remotely had good writing.
I agree. The mom from the Waltons said that she left the show because it fell in love with itself. That's kind of what happened to SPN as well. Instead of focusing on interesting stories about family and ordinary people being up against unusual circumstances it became about inserting odd new characters and then having the Winchesters react to them. It's worse now that they are pushing Dean and Sam as hero's and go on these tangents on what it means to be a hero.
I get that they don't want to leave it as Dean and Sam wasted their lives when someone else could have saved the world instead, but the point never was that they were hero's to begin with. They were just people who had knowledge and skills that most people don't have. Instead of trying to make the show fit with other CW superhero shows they should have looked at other off beat quirky shows like the Magicians that tackle magical forces but are still grounded in the characters and real world issues that people have.
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1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:
Talk is cheap if you never back up your words. Bobby might have said Dean is his favorite but he certainly didn't treat him like that. He really didn't treat him any better than John. There is a difference between babying someone and treating them with respect, which he did with Sam and his feelings.
Bobby also said Sam was the better hunter. I'd rather Dean be the better hunter. If that is how Bobby treats his favorite, Sam is welcome to him.
He talked more to Dean then Sam. They had discussions, not just pep talks. I got the feeling that he had a lot more respect for Dean then Sam anyway, but it also just could have been because Jensen had better chemistry with him then Jared.
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3 hours ago, Res said:
Sorry, but I hardcore disagree with the bolded as much as I disagree with Jack being a Winchester or Dean's son. I especially disagree with Bobby being like a father to Dean as I don't believe that a father figure (aka replacement for John) gives "boo hoo, princess" or "ain't a person" speeches. To Sam, who never got that kind of crap, Bobby probably is a father figure since he's hardly shown disagreeing with Bobby and gets rousing praise from him. JMHO.
Only supernatural beings and miscellaneous people seemed to be okay, accept and occasionally praise Dean (if he wasn't currently trying to piss them off).
Bobby saw the boys as adapted son's to him. The writers never made it clear what Dean or Sam felt about Bobby other then seeing him as someone they could depend on, so I guess we'll never know. Bobby also said when he had to tell the truth that Dean was his favorite, so does it really matter if he encouraged Sam more? Maybe he was supposed to feel like Dean was a solid enough person that he didn't need to baby him.
And even if Dean doesn't see Jack as a son Jack definitely sees Dean as the closest thing to a father figure that he's going to get. We probably will also never know how Dean or Sam really feel about Jack, as that I just how they role with Dean and Sam's feelings about anything other then how they feel about each other. Sam has been "dating" Eileen for awhile now and he hasn't even admitted to even liking her. The boys play it close to their chest with their feelings, the show has been consistent with at least that.
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14 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:
I feel like I'm in bizarro world reading this. No one remembers that Jack killed their Mom? We're just glossing over that completely? I mean those are real feelings to explore.
Geez they make Sam insufferable every chance they get. Sam barely seemed to tolerate Jack and Jack associated Sam with the trauma of losing his mother at birth but now Sam was grieving for his lost "son". Give me a break.
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10 hours ago, Bali said:
I could have handled one of the guys meeting an awesome female hunter and had her around for a while. But the pairings they gave me didn't do it for me. Sam and Becky? Sam and the married chick while Dean was in Purgatory? Just No. I did like Lisa. I liked her a lot. But she was too innocent to survive his world. They both should have an equal in the fight. I know Hollywood thinks that interesting relationships can't work on TV because once the tension is there, they don't know how to write it. That's just ridiculous because I know it's a TOTALLY different show- but did anyone ever root for Charles and Caroline Ingalls to divorce- or a little closer to home- Gomez and Morticia Addams? Give me a break. Married couples can still flirt, argue, and have great chemistry, and cut heads off vampires, ghouls and djinn. Think of the smoldering looks Dean could give a woman that kissed him, said, "That's right, babe," and then launched a grenade into a pack of evil human killing vamps. He nods and says, "'At's my girl." Or Sam gets all protective like he does, even though she can fight too. They spar a little, roll around a little.
I've always liked that they were single, especially that Dean was single. I think it is pretty common for straight people to have families that aren't necessarily with a romantic partner or biological children. It isn't reflected on TV enough that not everyone has lives that revolve around a having a significant other.
But yes to the rest. There are all kinds of possibilities out there.
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2 hours ago, hypnotoad said:
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Why would people be offended by Mary's story if she was caring towards her sons - how does that make her weak? I'm confused by this.
I don't think it makes her weak, but know there are trollers and haters on social media who do glob onto any perceived slight towards women, especially in male dominated shows like SPN. If Mary has been more maternal there would have been backlash about SPN feeling like a women's place is to be the caregiver.
It's the same with Eileen. We will never know anything about her besides that she is very independent because these hacks think it is the only social media friendly way for a woman to be presented.
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13 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:
Yes. The writers bring Mary back and then do basically nothing with her - especially when it came to Sam and Dean. It would have been very easy to let Mary take an episode or two and do those things you listed. It would have taken some time off for J2 and let the audience and Mary learn more about what happened after she died the first time.
I think the writers are so worried about offending people that they forget that their purpose is to tell a story. They didn't know what to do with Mary because people would be offended by the show not showing strong enough women if she was caring towards her son's and people would also be offended if she was shown to be overwhelmed by the entire situation (which she had every right to be). So they did nothing and then got rid of the character.
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5 hours ago, ukgirl71 said:
Genuinely curious - what ways do you all think the show could have successfully juggled J2’s reduced schedule without bringing in Jack?
More focus on what they are hunting I suppose. Although that would mean having to give guest stars a lot more responsible. I think it was just easier to bring in a new recurring actor then depend on a revolving door of guest actors. Or a different storyline for Cas so he could take up some of the slack.
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5 hours ago, 7kstar said:
I like the characters and the richness of the characters should have created so MUCH more. I don't think they really examine more than one script at a time for everyone involved. The rich connections have been missing for a long time, IMHO.
I like the characters too. I think the writers don't get what made the show so special in the first place, that it is a show about family and love with characters that have wrestled with and ultimately rejected the idea of a nuclear family. The show was way ahead of its time that way. Having the likely end being that Sam will likely choose parenthood and a semi-suburban life (even if he and Eileen decide to both still be hunters) seems so counter intuitive and frankly insulting to the viewers who need that example on mainstream television of an alternative to that. The show was never about romantic love, but the love between the brothers, even if the show has constantly pointed out that their dependence on that love is unhealthy.
Screw them for thinking that their audience is the Riverdale crowd or that anyone wants to see Sam acting like a spoiled 13 year old or to have Dean be the hot dad who has to parent everyone, because it's ridiculous.
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5 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:
But I should have included in my Sam's character growth that he went back more to "show" in season 6 and 7. Wearing the western stuff to humor Dean in "Frontierland." Giving Dean the giant slinky. I think there was pie involved somewhere. And that's the kind of thing that Carver left by the wayside in season 8 - along with a bunch of other stuff.
So basically, I think Sam used to adapt and find multiple ways to communicate with Dean - rather than just "tell" - but later on in the series as the writers didn't bother to keep Sam as complex a character, that fell by the wayside.
All of the characters got watered down over the years. Cas really has had it far worse then the brothers. He is now just a babysitter instead of a badass soldier of the lord.
I wonder if it is because of the budget that the actors now have to do more telling then showing. There is much more filler dialog, and hence more opportunities for Sam to make an ass of himself.
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45 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:
And yet they have no problem showing multiple people tying up and beating up Sam, and showing the aftermath.
It is gross and unnecessary but isn't the same thing as spending a year having terrible things done to you and doing terrible things in purgatory or being tortured in hell and then becoming the torturer for years in hell. Personally I think that they just don't know what else to do with Sam and have very little confidence in Jared's ability to actually act, so just have him pose a lot.
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13 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:
Dean has done nothing plot worthy all season. He was given the non-active role in closing hell. He knelt by a hole. He's had to grovel and beg forgiveness for being upset Cas lied and got his mom killed. He's the butt of just about every joke. He doesn't' get to save people anymore. He doesn't even have his instincts. Sam was the one who felt something wasn't right in Atomic Monsters, and and ep 5. Sam was the one who upped the stakes last episode.
No, the writing isn't good for either brother right now but at least the digs aren't aimed his character and his character isn't told how dumb he is every ep. Even Chuck made sure to mention that Sam's affinity for spell work was all him. At least the writers are making an effort with Sam, even if its minimal. He had 3 different storylines. The God one, Eileen and Rowena.
He even gets to name and talk about his traumas. Deans- well he went to purgatory and it effected him, so he had to go back because he went to purgatory and it effected him. When asked if Dean traumas are going to be addressed, Dabb said no.
Dean couldn't even get a kid named after him despite Garth not even meeting Cas, and having the closest relationship with Dean.
He hauled ass out of purgatory to save poor helpless Sammy, that's something. And while I found the apology weird and unnecessary, Jensen did it well and I always like to see Jensen get a chance to act. T
They don't make fun of Sam because there is nothing to poke fun at, the guy has no character traits other then that he is very loyal to Dean and feels guilty sometime for being a burden to Dean. If I watched the show for him I would be extremely frustrated that Sam has turned into such a dud.
And Dean's trauma is probably too much to address on a teen show that plays at 8 o'clock. It would be different if it was a 10 o'clock cable network show, but it isn't. It is a show that 14 year olds should be able to watch without adult supervision.
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1 minute ago, DeeDee79 said:
And in spite of all of this Sam doesn't say "you're better than me in everything". The few times that he did say that he was the one to get the BDH moment. Swan Song: "I'm the least of all of you", Trial and Error: "you're the best hunter that I know", etc.
Sam is a self center brat for the most part. Again, just bad writing of the character. I don't know why they put all the brotherly love on Dean and all of the I'm just doing me (but doing a very bad job of it and really need my brother for everything) on Sam.
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To be fair Sam fans are probably just as frustrated with the current writing of his character. Sam is still the one who can't do anything without Dean after all these years. He's the one who gets knocked out or kidnapped any time he is four feet away from his brother. He is the one who is always wrong so Dean can be right. There is never any balance. The writers don't get that neither one of them needs to be right or that they could both be wrong sometimes. Plus he has no personality, he is just the dame in distress waiting for the hero to come save him.
I hope they give Sam a hero moment for no other reason then that Dean deserves to see that he did well with Sam and that Sam may be able to take care of himself.
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10 minutes ago, Myrelle said:
1) Jensen might have a problem with Dean or both brothers "dying", (likely via Amara, after Sam saves everyone single-handedly by being possessed by her); but he also might have a problem with 2)Dean allowing and accepting Sam's, and only Sam's, fateful "death" by Amara. And even if Dean is shown Sam as being content/happy with Eileen in Amara's afterlife.
And following that thinking, if Dean lives, and he's also stuck in the same world with cAsstiel and the Nougatbaby(as the new God), I can also see him having a problem with that, along with just "letting" Sam "go"-which he might see as OOC for Dean.
The part that has always been the most worrisome for me, is not just that Jensen was uncertain about it, but moreso that JP loved it.
JP would probably say that he loves anything, as his next show is going to be on the CW and there really is no benefit for him to say that he hates it.
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3 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:
Yes. True. However there is canon about nephilim being extraordinary powerful and archnephilim being just superduperfly. Lucifer made him because he wanted the power and AU Michael used the threat of Lucifer with that power as the carrot to lure Dean to say yes... thanks for the shiny new suit.
So the canon is Jack was all that. That is why Chuck had a kill nephilim rule which actually works with the bible because the flood was supposed to be God trying to kill nephilim.
However Jack wasn't killed and then he lost his power and he lost his soul and then he lost his soul. So it made no sense that he became supercalifragilistic + superduperfly after resurrection whilst sucking down his soul energy. And it made less sense that he went super nova with stolen grace that should have burned out quickly. This was a major problem for Castiel in seasons 9-10 and also for Lucifer in season 13.
Just pretend like Jack doesn't exist. It's all much easier to watch that way.
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59 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:
How do you know Jensen's personal worth?
I looked up his net worth
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18 hours ago, ahrtee said:
But will the money guys still want to hire him for leads in teen horror movies when he's 50? Especially if he's not a big name elsewhere. I don't really want to see him as the hero's father. But maybe that's just me.
I think he has enjoyed the community around hero shows so far. He likes going to comic cons and being able to interact with the fans. Plus, it supplements the income that he makes from being on the show.
He is worth 14 million dollars, I doubt he needs to really worry about money at this point in his life. I hope he picks projects because he wants to do them. And considering that he and Jared wanted SPN to go down to 10 episodes a season, I think he will be drawn to more movies or series on streaming services where there are shorter filming schedules.
I would hate to see him become the next Tom Cavanagh, stuck as being the old guy on The Flash forever.
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S15.E20: Carry On (Series Finale)
in Supernatural
I think showing Sam with the suburban life that he never wanted was the hardest thing to swallow in the episode.
Let's be real, Sam would make an awful father. He was in the role of being Dean's "kid" for way too long for that. He would have terrible PTSD, Mommy and Daddy issues, drinks daily, and sees his true life partner as his dead brother. Sounds like a super fun environment for a kid to grow up in. Now take all of that and add Sam's hard to please, rarely smiling unless smirking at other people's expense thing and make the kid live with that. Sucks to be that kid.
Why couldn't they just let Sam do Sam? Have him end up on a beach or in a big city or in the middle of nowhere with whoever his very understanding and patient life partner turned out to be and leave kids out of it.