S01.E18: Torn

[Mu Shu]

21 hours ago, John M said:

My husband is 9 years older than me, I'm in my mid 30s, he's in his mid 40s.  The age difference rarely, rarely, comes up.

But I will say I think there are a few factors, we are both men, we both have pretty clear ideas of where our individual lives are going, we don't want children and I'm at a weird cuspy generation where I grew up pre-digital revolution so our childhoods look pretty similar. Oh, also, my parents had me later in life so our parents are actually very close in ages so we have the same generational context on some things and dealing with aging parents.

I think things might be different if we were 21 and 30 but we both partied and slept around enough for a lifetime so we are both more in a nesty, plan for the future frame of mind. And just for the record, I am very attracted to my husband, he has taken very good care of himself, I easily pass for early 20s and him, early 30s.

Nine years isn’t a big age difference once you hit thirties and beyond. If Jenny were 60 and SumBitch was 51, that wouldn’t look odd at all. IMO, a thirty year age gap is too much, especially when the older partners look so worn out, as Jenny and Laura do.  I can’t figure Aladdin out. He’s good looking, has a good personality, he’s employed, and his family seems very nice. Why can’t he get someone closer to his age to have children? Even if he can’t get a good arranged marriage, he’s willing to marry a Western woman. He can easily find a European woman who is much more suitable. 

[libgirl2]

25 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

Nine years isn’t a big age difference once you hit thirties and beyond. If Jenny were 60 and SumBitch was 51, that wouldn’t look odd at all. IMO, a thirty year age gap is too much, especially when the older partners look so worn out, as Jenny and Laura do.  I can’t figure Aladdin out. He’s good looking, has a good personality, he’s employed, and his family seems very nice. Why can’t he get someone closer to his age to have children? Even if he can’t get a good arranged marriage, he’s willing to marry a Western woman. He can easily find a European woman who is much more suitable. 

I was taking a real good look at Aladin and he is a nice looking man. He seems pleasant and responsible. Laura isn't great but at least she isn't unpleasant on an Angela level. 

I think Sumit has some odd obsession about Jenny and vice versa. Maybe he just prefers way older women? Maybe jenny doesn't expect mind blowing sex or children, neither which he can deliver or wants, and he is happy with that?

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

Why can’t he get someone closer to his age to have children? Even if he can’t get a good arranged marriage, he’s willing to marry a Western woman. He can easily find a European woman who is much more suitable. 

I don't know.  Sometimes I think people get too hung up on who's "suitable."  What does that even mean?  Just because you marry someone close to your own age that's no guarantee that everything will work out perfectly.  

There was once a time when people thought that a person dating outside their race was "perverted" and "strange," some still do.  Some still think same sex marriages are strange as well.  

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don't know.  Sometimes I think people get too hung up on who's "suitable."  What does that even mean?  Just because you marry someone close to your own age that's no guarantee that everything will work out perfectly.  

There was once a time when people thought that a person dating outside their race was "perverted" and "strange," some still do.  Some still think same sex marriages are strange as well.  

Thank you for saying that. When my dad married my mom it was a huge deal in his family. He was German and my mom is Hispanic. They weren't thrilled. Sometimes, you love who you love. I think what makes these relationships suspect is the almighty green card. 

[Drogo]

7 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Sometimes I think people get too hung up on who's "suitable."  What does that even mean? 

In this case I believe 'suitable partner' means if you're a 30 year old man and having children is a top priority for you, don't marry this person:

[greekmom]

17 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Sped teacher here, licensed in ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder) among other things and I am here to tell you:  He is not on the spectrum.  He is a straight up rude socially awkward asshole, at least how he is being edited currently.

Interesting.  What makes you think that he's not on the spectrum? I mean what are the tell tale signs? Because I am not a professional but his mannerisms, actions, things he says reminds me of my older son and he is on the spectrum.  

3 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

 Many clinics won't try IVF after age 45, success rates drop lower and lower beginning at age 35, so does Laura think she has some magical womb at age 50 whatever? Does she, or Big Ang for that matter have the 10s of thousands of dollars it would take to pursue IVF? Celebs have endless money, and I don't believe for one moment that all of them are/were pregnant, I don't want to get all conspiracy theoried out here, but some surely have someone toting the child for them. 

IMHO IVF clinics would also have concerns with Laura and Big Ang's weight and Big Ang's smoking.  I would think even if they had the money that no IVF clinic would even perform the procedures because of those reasons.

[John M]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

 I can’t figure Aladdin out. He’s good looking, has a good personality, he’s employed, and his family seems very nice. Why can’t he get someone closer to his age to have children? Even if he can’t get a good arranged marriage, he’s willing to marry a Western woman. He can easily find a European woman who is much more suitable. 

Maybe he is just attracted to more full bodied, older women? I dunno, I feel sometimes like this talk is projecting some unhealthy cultural norms of who is attractive and who should be attracted to who. 

[libgirl2]

14 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Thank you for saying that. When my dad married my mom it was a huge deal in his family. He was German and my mom is Hispanic. They weren't thrilled. Sometimes, you love who you love. I think what makes these relationships suspect is the almighty green card. 

And the money. 

[Neurochick]

36 minutes ago, John M said:

Maybe he is just attracted to more full bodied, older women? I dunno, I feel sometimes like this talk is projecting some unhealthy cultural norms of who is attractive and who should be attracted to who. 

Yes, that's what's starting to bug me.  It's like, if you're ____ you shouldn't be attracted to _____.  But who made those rules?  Who decided who should and shouldn't be with who?  

Edited September 25, 2019 by Neurochick

[Mrs. Hanson]

51 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Interesting.  What makes you think that he's not on the spectrum? I mean what are the tell tale signs? Because I am not a professional but his mannerisms, actions, things he says reminds me of my older son and he is on the spectrum. 

To me, he is too socially savvy.  A person with Autism who flew 22 hours would go to the weddings because, well, he flew 22 hours to go to the weddings.  I don't think it would be in his social wheelhouse to be passive aggressive, you know?  It is like ASD kiddos are more logical than that.   He makes a lot of eye contact and can read other peoples feelings too well.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.  Maybe TLC is editing him to be kinda odd on purpose, who knows.  I know I have two kids on my caseload that are diagnosed with ASD and to me, they are not.  The trouble with that scenario is now people will be focusing on seemingly irrelevant symptoms of Autism when they should be focusing on the real issues of behaviors and anxiety.

[Lily247]

I think the whole argument of "suitable" kind of relates to where some of these guys are coming from and their own cultural, religious backgrounds. Age, religion, and culture might not play a role like that in Western/american society, but the entire world is not America. 

Aladdin is a 30 year old man from the Middle East who is apparantly an observant Muslim and wants kids. Laura is too old to have those kids, she is not the same religion, she drinks - which bothers him, etc etc. I didnt see much of this season but I doubt his parents would genuinely approve of this marriage. 

Isnt Aladdin originally Tunisian ? I actually totally dismissed this "marriage" after a few seconds as yet another example of "bezness" amd would be surprised of anyone took it seriously. We have seen lots of this from 90 day - Nicole and Azan, Mohamad and Danielle, Rebecca and Zied. I think that Laura is def bringing him over despite their "storyline". I know 2 couples like them in my city and the wife looks exactly like Laura. Typically, smart, attractive women wont fall for this. 

Exception to this, Sumit. I think as he once mentioned that he is attracted to caucasian women ( nothing wrong with that, if thats what he likes) and he just really does love Jenny. But his family wanted a young Indian woman for him. I think he catfished her because I guess he didn't think she would like his real appearance. 

I am fairly observant in my religion, and it is decreed that if I marry, my spouse must belong to the same religion. That is what is considered suitable in my own culture and religion. There are 10,000 different frames of mind and its important to always have an open mind. 

Also, one more thing: I would love to see pics of Aladdin's last 3 girlfriends. Are they older, full figured Tunisian women? Are they older American women? Or were they all approximately his age and slender?Questions questions. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Lily247

[Lily247]

11 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

To me, he is too socially savvy.  A person with Autism who flew 22 hours would go to the weddings because, well, he flew 22 hours to go to the weddings.  I don't think it would be in his social wheelhouse to be passive aggressive, you know?  It is like ASD kiddos are more logical than that.   He makes a lot of eye contact and can read other peoples feelings too well.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.  Maybe TLC is editing him to be kinda odd on purpose, who knows.  I know I have two kids on my caseload that are diagnosed with ASD and to me, they are not.  The trouble with that scenario is now people will be focusing on seemingly irrelevant symptoms of Autism when they should be focusing on the real issues of behaviors and anxiety.

100%. I work with kids with ASD too and Liam just seems socially awkward / anxious, but (from what I see) not on the spectrum. 

Hell, everybody and their mother loves to play armchair doctor and diagnose people with ASD. I have had 2 people try to tell me that I am autistic (as an adult) when in fact I just get occasional social anxiety. Not like Liam though!

[RealReality]

46 minutes ago, Lily247 said:

Also, one more thing: I would love to see pics of Aladdin's last 3 girlfriends. Are they older, full figured Tunisian women? Are they older American women? Or were they all approximately his age and slender?Questions questions. 

I think this would be interesting.  Maybe he is that relatively rare guy who is a 9, but attracted to a solid 3.5...maybe a 4.5 because of the blonde hair.  

Personality wise, she seems to thrive on conflicts and fighting and he actively avoids it to the point of blocking her or walking away from her.  She always seems to be complaining or making herself out to be a martyr and it has to get old hearing about HOW MUCH SHE GAVE UP!  So, if it was a personality match I don't see that either.  

[Lily247]

10 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I think this would be interesting.  Maybe he is that relatively rare guy who is a 9, but attracted to a solid 3.5...maybe a 4.5 because of the blonde hair.  

Personality wise, she seems to thrive on conflicts and fighting and he actively avoids it to the point of blocking her or walking away from her.  She always seems to be complaining or making herself out to be a martyr and it has to get old hearing about HOW MUCH SHE GAVE UP!  So, if it was a personality match I don't see that either.  

Yep. One guy who fixes my car is an immigrant who came here on a tourist visa and met a much older, broke woman who looks just like Laura and who is around 50. He is 26 and good looking. They married after 3 months, divorced, and now he is dating a 20 something modelesque girl. 

😮

Edited September 25, 2019 by Lily247

[DiamondGirl]

17 minutes ago, Lily247 said:

Yep. One guy who fixes my car is an immigrant who came here on a tourist visa and met a much older, broke woman who looks just like Laura and who is around 50. He is 26 and good looking. They married after 3 months, divorced, and now he is dating a 20 something modelesque girl. 

😮

3 months - like...90 days?  Interesting.  They missed their big chance to be on the teevee!

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 hour ago, Lily247 said:

100%. I work with kids with ASD too and Liam just seems socially awkward / anxious, but (from what I see) not on the spectrum. 

Hell, everybody and their mother loves to play armchair doctor and diagnose people with ASD. I have had 2 people try to tell me that I am autistic (as an adult) when in fact I just get occasional social anxiety. Not like Liam though!

Here is one way to look at it:  We all have our quirks, I like to know what high school people went to, what the colors were and what was your mascot?  Just a nice conversation starter.  Fine.  If getting to know everyone's high school, colors and mascot gets in the way of living, employment and friendships, that is a problem, that could be a sign of autism.  If you are so busy reciting facts about World War 2 warships and steer conversations towards them, that is a sign.  Refusing to go to school and crying because you know Discovery is running a special on Word War 2 ships?  That is a problem.  Trust me I have had kids perseverate on everything from "What do your socks look like?" to tuxedos, the Titanic, planets, dinosaurs, dead people (like the number of people who died in plane crashes, boating disasters, etc) it would make your head spin!!!!

[Lily247]

35 minutes ago, DiamondGirl said:

3 months - like...90 days?  Interesting.  They missed their big chance to be on the teevee!

Ohhhh, the people I see doing this are VERY down low and private. They use a fake name on FB so that no one they dont know will find them and figure them out. I only know because I see them around town and we have mutual friends and so we socialize in similar circles

Edited September 25, 2019 by Lily247

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 9/23/2019 at 11:35 PM, Barbara Please said:

Deaven looks so much cuter with less makeup on.

With the side-part in her hair, she was looking like a Duggar to me.  Pretty impressive that she can resemble both Elvira and a Duggar.

.

On 9/24/2019 at 10:23 AM, nr65000 said:

I would never use filters to lure in some young dude.  I would be mortified when he actually saw me!

That's the part about all these internet pictures that I just don't understand.  Hell, one reason I don't wear makeup is because I don't want to deal with looking like myself when I get up in the morning if it's not what I look like the rest of the time, and I'm talking about disappointing only me.  I can't imagine what it would be like to lie about myself to such an extent as these people do and then have an in-person meeting, especially with someone who's clearly outside my range.

.

On 9/24/2019 at 10:48 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I totally agree.  Generally speaking, I'd say if the guy is 10 years younger than the women, there is almost no chance he is really interested. 

I'll have to ask Mr. Outlier about this--he's 10 years younger than I am, and we're at over 20 years together now. 

.

On 9/24/2019 at 11:23 AM, Mrs. Hanson said:

I am 54, can pass for younger if I say so myself

Feel free.  Everybody says so themselves.  They're also all excellent drivers.

.

7 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

Yes, everyone seems to have some anecdotal story about how their aunt got pregnant naturally at 47,

I have a friend who's my age who had an unexpected baby at 49.  But she was also infinitely healthier that any of the old broads on this show, judging from their appearances.

She's also dead now, and not from a car wreck or anything like that, which just further goes to show you never know.

.

7 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

If I were Liam, I wouldn't have bothered arguing with Laura or Aladdin about her having another child. I would have just been, "oh, yeah? Sounds great. I can't wait to have a little brother or sister," and rolled my eyes out of my head.

You are clearly far too sensible a person to ever be even considered for a show like this.  That would have been the perfect way for him to handle this nonsense.

[seacliffsal]

So, just a thought as I read through all of these wonderful posts-could these younger men want their older fiances/wives to agree to have children so that when they don't there could be charges of fraud, helping them to stay in the U.S. and to get annulments which would then allow them to marry again for the first time as the first marriage was declared null and void?  

[Mrs. Hanson]

3 hours ago, Lily247 said:

Hell, everybody and their mother loves to play armchair doctor and diagnose people with ASD. I have had 2 people try to tell me that I am autistic (as an adult) when in fact I just get occasional social anxiety. Not like Liam though!

My older son was a bit more emotional than his peers as a toddler (not whole lot, he was sensitive) and he had a "thing" about ceiling fans!  A trip to Menards was like Christmas morning.  Being focused on things that rotate (like a dryer) I am sure if assessed, they would have slapped that label on him.  Fine if he was, but he is not.

[Lily247]

13 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Yes, a lot of people assume ASD when a kid just has quirks. 

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

So, just a thought as I read through all of these wonderful posts-could these younger men want their older fiances/wives to agree to have children so that when they don't there could be charges of fraud, helping them to stay in the U.S. and to get annulments which would then allow them to marry again for the first time as the first marriage was declared null and void?  

I doubt it. These men come from traditional societies that place huge importance on having kids. That aside- the kids talk is all just a joke and a farce to seem interesting. Michael the Nigerian, Aladdin, Zied will move onto younger women eventually. Sumit is the only one who I think genuinely has a thing for grannies. 

[Dobian]

Well In Aladdin and Zied's case they are technically allowed to have multiple wives.  Maybe the strategy is to use having a baby as an angle to have a second younger wife.

[Mu Shu]

7 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't know.  Sometimes I think people get too hung up on who's "suitable."  What does that even mean?  Just because you marry someone close to your own age that's no guarantee that everything will work out perfectly.  

There was once a time when people thought that a person dating outside their race was "perverted" and "strange," some still do.  Some still think same sex marriages are strange as well.  

Suitable means a woman old enough to bear children, since he wants them. Not sure why you were compelled to bring same sex marriage into it. From the perspective of a middle eastern family, and she would be living in the Middle East, she’s not suitable. She’s crass and embarrasses her conservative spouse by blasting his lack of prowess on TV. 

[Kid]

9 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Nine years isn’t a big age difference once you hit thirties and beyond. If Jenny were 60 and SumBitch was 51, that wouldn’t look odd at all. IMO, a thirty year age gap is too much, especially when the older partners look so worn out, as Jenny and Laura do.  I can’t figure Aladdin out. He’s good looking, has a good personality, he’s employed, and his family seems very nice. Why can’t he get someone closer to his age to have children? Even if he can’t get a good arranged marriage, he’s willing to marry a Western woman. He can easily find a European woman who is much more suitable. 

It is a mystery isn’t it? He seems to have a lot going for him. In my opinion, he’s too good for her.

[mamadrama]

On 9/24/2019 at 12:29 PM, libgirl2 said:

I have to agree. I'm fine with younger men, within reason. My husband is 4 years younger and a classmate of mine's husband is 9 years younger (and he looks her age). For me about 10 years is the limit. 

I'm fine with a 20-year age difference as long as there is SOME kind of common ground. There doesn't seem to be any in any of these May-December romances, though. Some barely speak the other's language and when they DO talk, it's mostly about how they love each other or how great the other makes them feel.

[John M]

2 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Suitable means a woman old enough to bear children, since he wants them. Not sure why you were compelled to bring same sex marriage into it. From the perspective of a middle eastern family, and she would be living in the Middle East, she’s not suitable. She’s crass and embarrasses her conservative spouse by blasting his lack of prowess on TV. 

I think it is exactly the same thing, age is no guaranty of fertility on her or HIS part. My husband's and my parents are both conservative christians in the Texas, they have been supportive but I know neither family is thrilled with having a gay atheist family as part of the clan, it ways that they have made less subtle on some occasions.

I just think it is a little gross to dismiss out of hand how their attraction to each other could possibly be believable.

Edited September 26, 2019 by John M

[Kangatush]

A big difference between Laura and Aladin and Grangela and Mykull, is maturity and money.  While I don't understand Aladin and Laura, he seems set for money (based off the stacks of cash when they went to Tunesia), and Aladin told Liam they had gone to a doctor in Qatar to discuss fertility possibilities.  That shows genuine thought about how an older woman might possibly have a child.

Grangela is broke after buying Trumpwear and sex toys, and her grand plan is to have her daughter "tote" it for her. 

I want none of these people to reproduce, but at least one is in the realm of reality, not fantasy.

[HappyDancex2]

4 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I'm fine with a 20-year age difference as long as there is SOME kind of common ground. There doesn't seem to be any in any of these May-December romances, though. Some barely speak the other's language and when they DO talk, it's mostly about how they love each other or how great the other makes them feel.

This post so beautifool.  :drags off hookah pipe:

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, HappyDancex2 said:

This post so beautifool.  :drags off hookah pipe:

Aw.thank you baby. Soooo bootiful and romantic. No worry, mi amor.

Edited September 26, 2019 by mamadrama

[Persnickety1]

20 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

To me, he is too socially savvy.  A person with Autism who flew 22 hours would go to the weddings because, well, he flew 22 hours to go to the weddings.  I don't think it would be in his social wheelhouse to be passive aggressive, you know?  It is like ASD kiddos are more logical than that.   He makes a lot of eye contact and can read other peoples feelings too well.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.  Maybe TLC is editing him to be kinda odd on purpose, who knows.  I know I have two kids on my caseload that are diagnosed with ASD and to me, they are not.  The trouble with that scenario is now people will be focusing on seemingly irrelevant symptoms of Autism when they should be focusing on the real issues of behaviors and anxiety.

Definitely not a popular opinion, but I see it a lot as well and I think the label "on the spectrum" is tossed around and individuals labeled with it who don't seem any more out of the ordinary than I am (and I am assuredly not autistic nor on any spectrum).

Labels are so ridiculously overused these days.

Why can't a kid just be quirky any more?  Why can't a kid just not be a social butterfly and prefer to engage in solo activities?  Why can't a kid like a set routine?  Why can't a kid just be a kid without having a label thrown onto them?  Why can't a kid just be full of energy without being labeled ADHD?  

I'm not saying this about all cases or dismissing the notion that these conditions exist because they obviously do, but I see kids getting labeled with diagnoses day after day and (although I've been in the periphery of the health care field for 30 years, I'm not a licensed professional and can't diagnose) I am extremely suspect about the massive number of kids being labeled as "autistic," "on the spectrum," or "ADD/ADHD," when to me their behaviors might be a tad idiosyncratic but for fuck's sake...maybe find another way to help Little Johnny burn off some energy before you start filling his belly with Ritalin.  

I totally believe sometimes kids/people are just quirky, sometimes kids/people are just assholes, sometimes kids/people are just weird...And that's fine.  

Okay, stepping off the label soapbox now.  

Edited September 26, 2019 by Persnickety1

[DaphneCat]

This is just a random question but has been kind of bugging me.  Many people on this forum have stated that Aladin can't get American citizenship because Laura is Canadian.  Are we SURE she didn't get citizenship when she came here with her husband?  Mr. Cat never pursued citizenship but I think it is far more common for the spouse to become a citizen than to simply stay a permanent resident.  If Laura is a citizen she can sponsor a foreign person for residency/citizenship - either on the K1 or a spousal visa (chain migration).  And I agree with people who think that they are hoping to use the spousal visa as a way to circumvent the restrictions on Muslims.

[Gobi]

2 minutes ago, DaphneCat said:

This is just a random question but has been kind of bugging me.  Many people on this forum have stated that Aladin can't get American citizenship because Laura is Canadian.  Are we SURE she didn't get citizenship when she came here with her husband?  Mr. Cat never pursued citizenship but I think it is far more common for the spouse to become a citizen than to simply stay a permanent resident.  If Laura is a citizen she can sponsor a foreign person for residency/citizenship - either on the K1 or a spousal visa (chain migration).  And I agree with people who think that they are hoping to use the spousal visa as a way to circumvent the restrictions on Muslims.

I think the reason people assume she is a Canadian citizen is because she used a Canadian passport when she boarded her flight. I don’t know if one can have  dual US/Canadian citizenship.

[Pepper Mostly]

15 hours ago, Dobian said:

Well In Aladdin and Zied's case they are technically allowed to have multiple wives.  Maybe the strategy is to use having a baby as an angle to have a second younger wife.

For Aladin or Zied to take a second wife, they'd have to be able to support one. Muslims may marry up to four women, but they have to treat them all the same. That's why we don't see evidence of it  very often, since a regular person who's not in the Saudi royal family or something can't afford it. Most Muslim majority countries that still permit it allow a woman to put a clause in the marriage contract prohibiting the husband from taking another wife. In the places where its allowed, the first wife has to give her written consent. Its also not very socially acceptable except in very conservative and/or rural areas.

Aladin is a personal trainer and Zied seems to be a professional layabout. Could either one fully support two women, plus himself? Doubtful. If the strategy was to land a "rich" American to support him, then take a second wife to produce babies, well, its not a very good one, since neither woman is a money spinner, nor is either one likely to agree to it.  It seems more likely, to me, anyway, that the endgame is to divorce, once the objective, be it emigration, a green card, or whatever, has been obtained, citing the wife's inability to have a baby.

28 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I think the reason people assume she is a Canadian citizen is because she used a Canadian passport when she boarded her flight. I don’t know if one can have  dual US/Canadian citizenship.

The US doesn't recognized "dual" citizenship, but its a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of situation. Laura, if she's an American citizen, can retain her Canadian citizenship and passport unless she specifically renounces it.

[RealReality]

49 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

Definitely not a popular opinion, but I see it a lot as well and I think the label "on the spectrum" is tossed around and individuals labeled with it who don't seem any more out of the ordinary than I am (and I am assuredly not autistic nor on any spectrum).

Labels are so ridiculously overused these days.

Why can't a kid just be quirky any more?  Why can't a kid just not be a social butterfly and prefer to engage in solo activities?  Why can't a kid like a set routine?  Why can't a kid just be a kid without having a label thrown onto them?  Why can't a kid just be full of energy without being labeled ADHD?  

I'm not saying this about all cases or dismissing the notion that these conditions exist because they obviously do, but I see kids getting labeled with diagnoses day after day and (although I've been in the periphery of the health care field for 30 years, I'm not a licensed professional and can't diagnose) I am extremely suspect about the massive number of kids being labeled as "autistic," "on the spectrum," or "ADD/ADHD," when to me their behaviors might be a tad idiosyncratic but for fuck's sake...maybe find another way to help Little Johnny burn off some energy before you start filling his belly with Ritalin.  

I totally believe sometimes kids/people are just quirky, sometimes kids/people are just assholes, sometimes kids/people are just weird...And that's fine.  

Okay, stepping off the label soapbox now.  

True story - my cousin said that I'm "on the spectrum" because I don't always look people in the eye.

So who knows, maybe I'm autistic.  What does it all mean anyways?  we're all just stuck trying to do the best we can with who we are.

[Mr. Miner]

20 hours ago, RealReality said:

She always seems to be complaining or making herself out to be a martyr and it has to get old hearing about HOW MUCH SHE GAVE UP!  So, if it was a personality match I don't see that either.  

I'm sure that really does get old. But I'm sure the thing that bothers him the most is that she keeps digging her purple friend out of the trash.

[Persnickety1]

51 minutes ago, RealReality said:

True story - my cousin said that I'm "on the spectrum" because I don't always look people in the eye.

So who knows, maybe I'm autistic.  What does it all mean anyways?  we're all just stuck trying to do the best we can with who we are.

Ugh, and the scary thing is that even general practitioners are making these diagnoses instead of a child behavioral specialist, based on a few potential symptoms related by the parents instead of referring the kids to specialists in those areas to properly diagnose and treat them.  My head about explodes when a general practitioner immediately sticks Little Johnny on Ritalin or Adderall simply because the parent commented he's very active and fidgets in his seat.  

I really don't see Colt or Liam being on the spectrum.  I think they're just quirky assholes with weird mothers.  😄 

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 hour ago, Persnickety1 said:

Ugh, and the scary thing is that even general practitioners are making these diagnoses instead of a child behavioral specialist, based on a few potential symptoms related by the parents instead of referring the kids to specialists in those areas to properly diagnose and treat them.  My head about explodes when a general practitioner immediately sticks Little Johnny on Ritalin or Adderall simply because the parent commented he's very active and fidgets in his seat.  

I really don't see Colt or Liam being on the spectrum.  I think they're just quirky assholes with weird mothers.  😄 

True all of this 100%.  I have two sons, I can say this:  Boys like to squirm.  Girls do too, but boys are professional squirmers.   Per the ADHD:  I have seen meds do wonders for kids.  I have seen meds do poor things to kids.  People just need to be open, experiment with lots of different doses plus look at foods, energy drinks (skip them!) all kinds of things.  I think there is a misconception that we teachers want kids to be drugged.*  Not the case.  We want them to be successful and feel good about school, and often meds can factor into that.  When you are so incapable of sustaining focus for more than fifteen seconds, you are going to fail.  When you get to high school and read at a sixth grade level because you could not pay attention, that is a big problem.  Kids then will often medicate themselves.  Sorry for the rant - I am on my lunch break, lol!!!

Edited to add:

*If there are teachers out there who feel that way, and I am sure there are, they need to find a new line of work!

Edited September 26, 2019 by Mrs. Hanson

[RoxiP]

8 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

True all of this 100%.  I have two sons, I can say this:  Boys like to squirm.  Girls do too, but boys are professional squirmers.   Per the ADHD:  I have seen meds do wonders for kids.  I have seen meds do poor things to kids.  People just need to be open, experiment with lots of different doses plus look at foods, energy drinks (skip them!) all kinds of things.  I think there is a misconception that we teachers want kids to be drugged.  Not the case.  We want them to be successful and feel good about school, and often meds can factor into that.  When you are so incapable of sustaining focus for more than fifteen seconds, you are going to fail.  When you get to high school and read at a sixth grade level because you could not pay attention, that is a big problem.  Kids then will often medicate themselves.  Sorry for the rant - I am on my lunch break, lol!!!

My daughter has ADHD/Dyslexia.  I put her on medication in 2nd grade because she couldn't write and was also having social problems because at that age girls can be really mean when another classmate is falling behind.  We have always been very cautious about the medications (she only takes them on school days - of course at age 22 and in college she is now responsible for her own choices regarding her medication).  I was lucky to have great teachers who walked this journey with me and my daughter.

[Mrs. Hanson]

3 minutes ago, RoxiP said:

My daughter has ADHD/Dyslexia.  I put her on medication in 2nd grade because she couldn't write and was also having social problems because at that age girls can be really mean when another classmate is falling behind.  We have always been very cautious about the medications (she only takes them on school days - of course at age 22 and in college she is now responsible for her own choices regarding her medication).  I was lucky to have great teachers who walked this journey with me and my daughter.

Awesome to hear your daughter got help!!  We are all in this together!  I am glad to hear she got help in 2nd grade.  3rd grade is where the rubber meets the road and kids will fall even further behind!

[ALittleShelfish]

On 9/24/2019 at 10:05 AM, Drogo said:

• Aladin is a controlling dude- while he's winning his blonde antique-trophy wife and deciding the course of her uterus for her, he'll just as quickly disappear and block her if she talks too much for his liking. 

ANTIQUE.  TROPHY.  WIFE.  

My god that's beautiful writing, @Drogo.  Thank you. 

(My coworkers asked what made me start cackling and I can't explain it so I said "Oh just something on youtube, someone sent me a dog video" because EXPLAINING THIS TO THE NON-BELIEVERS? Who even has TIME for that?)

[renatae]

On 9/24/2019 at 11:35 AM, libgirl2 said:

Yes and I think the same goes with men and younger women, it starts to look silly! And the most of the women and men on here do not wear their age very well. 

My quite well off FIL left my MIL (who was about 5 years younger than him) for someone my husband's age when we were first married. Then #2 found out he was cheating on her and took a ton of money from his retirement account and ghosted him. Then he went for #3, again my husband's age but by now we were in our 40's or 50's. In his 80's and suffering from Alzheimer's, #3 started taking his SS and abandoned him in the nursing home and my husband needed to become his guardian.

I can never figure out why these people, even if they can actually hang on to the relationship for whatever reason, can't see 20 or 30 years down the road to where one is still relatively young and the other is a senior citizen.

Edited September 26, 2019 by renatae

[renatae]

On 9/24/2019 at 11:54 AM, Medsed said:

I am 56....I am raising my about to be three year old grandchild with my amazing husband.  Our bipolar son had a baby with a drug addict...neither one of them is capable of really raising her so we have had her full time since she was slightly over 6 months old.  My youngest son (not the baby daddy) is 25.  We had three kids of our own.

THIS IS SO MUCH MORE EXHAUSTING than raising my own kids ever was.  A three year old at 33/4 is just not the same as a three year old at 56.  I cannot imagine giving birth and jumping right in to do this at this age.

Mind you I am not saying this to complain, I adore being "this is my Mimi who is my mother". that's how she introduced me to someone recently.  I love, love, love this little one of mine.  I am hoping that we will adopt her sometime next year.

BUT...this is not easy.  I am in way better shape than Laura or Angela...I look better, people think I'm younger than my years, I don't smoke and drink a glass here or there like three times a year. This is not a job that anyone should plan on doing without some serious thought to their health, their likely longevity, their financial situation and so much more.  We are grown women here....we have been there done that, anyone who is thoughtful should know how mentally and physically taxing a child or children would be at our age.  These men are also from cultures where Mama does all of the child rearing...I am so fortunate to have a hubby who works three twelves a week and is hands on..takes her on bike rides and to the park or just runs around our big old back yard...eats lunch with her and carries her up to bed if she is exhausted etc. these women would be raising these kids basically alone, while being the primary provider and more....can you even imagine??  I shudder to think about them and any child that would come along naturally or by IVF etc....lord, please don't let it happen with this group!

Exactly! I was only 40 when we adopted our second child, and even at that, especially once I hit my 50's, I found such a difference and was so grateful my hubby was also so hands on about hitting baskets, t-balls, etc. When we first adopted him, my mom frankly told me that now that she was in her 60's, being a grandma to a toddler was so very much harder than it was when she was in her 40's.

[renatae]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:09 PM, greekmom said:

Besides the jiggy jiggy what do these people talk about?  These women were born in the mid to late 60’s.  The men on the show were born in the early 1990s.  In between sex their conversations must go like this:

Her: Breakfast Club was the movie of a generation.

Him: What’s that?? Best movie of a generation is Fast & Furious on babyyyy…

Her: I remember Robert Downey Jr when he was a celeb who crashed in jail for drugs.

Him: BABY!! Robert Downey Jr no make movies before Iron Man.

Her: OMG I remember where I was when Princess Di died.

Him: I was little boy in first year school. The teacher say someone important die. I dunno why this lady die.

Her:  Dallas was the best night time soap. Who killed JR.

Him: What is JR?!?! Who kill him? Voldermort?

Her: Man, John Travolta has really let himself go. He had beautiful hair in Saturday Night Fever.

Him: Baby… Travolta no make movie baby till Pulp Fiction movie baby.

That's hilarious! And on point. My brother's wife was about 6 to 8 years younger than him, and she would become upset when we started reminiscing about the shows and times we grew up in, because she was too young to have been aware of them. She really had some jealousy going on there.

[libgirl2]

19 hours ago, Dobian said:

Well In Aladdin and Zied's case they are technically allowed to have multiple wives.  Maybe the strategy is to use having a baby as an angle to have a second younger wife.

Or have the first wife be an older wife and she can be like a mother to the new and younger wives? 

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, RealReality said:

True story - my cousin said that I'm "on the spectrum" because I don't always look people in the eye.

So who knows, maybe I'm autistic.  What does it all mean anyways?  we're all just stuck trying to do the best we can with who we are.

I don't look people in the eye unless I know them well. I had a woman and work say I was rude. Luckily she didn't complain and I headed off the issue with my supervisor. Am I on the spectrum? I don't know. Am I shy? Yes sometimes and I'm also out going. 

[RealReality]

43 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I don't look people in the eye unless I know them well. I had a woman and work say I was rude. Luckily she didn't complain and I headed off the issue with my supervisor. Am I on the spectrum? I don't know. Am I shy? Yes sometimes and I'm also out going. 

🙄 Why is "you're rude" the first and rallying battle cry?  I would first consider it a sign of being shy or lack of confidence (I can be shy and lack confidence)

[Persnickety1]

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

I don't look people in the eye unless I know them well. I had a woman and work say I was rude. Luckily she didn't complain and I headed off the issue with my supervisor. Am I on the spectrum? I don't know. Am I shy? Yes sometimes and I'm also out going. 

You sound perfectly normal.  Sometimes I intentionally avoid eye contact just to discourage prolonged conversation if I'm focused on something else.  

28 minutes ago, RealReality said:

🙄 Why is "you're rude" the first and rallying battle cry?  I would first consider it a sign of being shy or lack of confidence (I can be shy and lack confidence)

Right?  Or someone's focus just being on something else and I'd check back with them later.  It would never occur to me to refer to that person as "rude."  

Kind of like how if someone disagrees with another person's opinion, the dissenter gets labeled a "bully" just for expressing and standing by their own personal opinion.  

Or if someone is having a bad day and irritable, people start whispering that person must be "bipolar."  

"Bully" and "bipolar" are two more labels thrown around all too frequently, IMO.  Both are very serious issues, and the way the terms are thrown around just takes away from the seriousness.  Ugh.

I must need more coffee.  I'm feel like yelling GET OFF OF MY LAWN! even when there's no one out there (and I wouldn't want the neighbors to label me "bipolar").   😄 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Persnickety1

[Gobi]

2 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

You sound perfectly normal.  Sometimes I intentionally avoid eye contact just to discourage prolonged conversation if I'm focused on something else.  

Right?  Or someone's focus just being on something else and I'd check back with them later.  It would never occur to me to refer to that person as "rude."  

Kind of like how if someone disagrees with another person's opinion, the dissenter gets labeled a "bully" just for expressing and standing by their own personal opinion.  

Or if someone is having a bad day and irritable, people start whispering that person must be "bipolar."  

"Bully" and "bipolar" are two more labels thrown around all too frequently, IMO.  Both are very serious issues, and the way the terms are thrown around just takes away the seriousness.  Ugh.

I must need more coffee.  I'm feel like yelling GET OFF OF MY LAWN! even when there's no one out there (and I wouldn't want the neighbors to label me "bipolar").   😄 

Maybe you’re just bipolar curious?

[libgirl2]

29 minutes ago, RealReality said:

🙄 Why is "you're rude" the first and rallying battle cry?  I would first consider it a sign of being shy or lack of confidence (I can be shy and lack confidence)

She was just an irate patron. 

[mamadrama]

5 hours ago, Gobi said:

I think the reason people assume she is a Canadian citizen is because she used a Canadian passport when she boarded her flight. I don’t know if one can have  dual US/Canadian citizenship.

You can. Though we often hear that USA doesn't officially recognize "dual citizenship" it doesn't mean that we discount it either. You don't have to renounce your citizenship to your home country to gain American citizenship. My kids are dual citizens of USA and England.  When we're doing "American" things, they use that passport, when we go abroad and do things in Europe than they use their British ones. My husband is currently going through the process to become a US citizen. USA won't deny him citizenship because he's also British and we won't make him renounce his British to become American. Same with England-he won't lose that to become American.