Root: The Stabby Human Interface

[mad_typist]

Amy Acker is just a delight in this role. I particularly enjoyed the way she played off Camryn Manheim a few episodes back. Her ability to give the heebie jeebies to both Fusco and Finch are great. The only complaint I have about the casting is that Amy Acker is probably too big a name to lock down to just this show, so we'll never get the amount of Root screentime we deserve.

Thoughts? Any chance Root will ever be a series regular? Or would the fun of the character wear out if she were on every case of the week?

[ApathyMonger]

Acker IS a series regular, just not one who appears in every episode (she's always credited though). I think she's been in 9 of the 15 this season so far.

I really like Root, though I hope they have a plan for where they're going with her.

[mad_typist]

Ah cool. Didn't know that Acker got upgraded this season (I usually fast forward through the credits).

I share your concern - I hope they've got a clear idea about where Root needs to go as a character, since you can only be the cackling wild card so long before you need some character evolution. Though I suppose you could argue that her "Less arbitrary killing" change is a sign of evolution.

[Syme]

I do like the cochlear implant 'upgrade' Root got. It's rather inspired to have turned a disability into an asset.

 

 

[CoderLady]

I do like the cochlear implant 'upgrade' Root got. It's rather inspired to have turned a disability into an asset.

For true. I was horrified and cringing during the ear surgery (the stapedectomy, ugh) but I see why it was necessary: to clear the way for Root to get permanent access to the Machine.

Except for one-episode guest shots, this is the first time I've seen Amy Acker in action. The character still sets my teeth on edge because it's hard (in my eyes, at least) to rehabilitate a homicidal maniac and make her sympathetic but I appreciate what she brings to the show.

Edited April 3, 2014 by CoderLady

[Syme]

The character still sets my teeth on edge because it's hard (in my eyes, at least) to rehabilitate a homicidal maniac and make her sympathetic but I appreciate what she brings to the show.

Which one? We have two female characters with both similar build and similar MO's, At least Root does not like smashing iPhones on a daily basis. Harold has been working on Shaw who is as nonchalant about killing as Root appears to be focused.

[CoderLady]

Heh. I see what you did there. But I'm talking about Root since this is the Root thread. I love Shaw, by the way.

[Syme]

It's interesting to compare Root to one of my favorite flawed female anti-heroes:  Lisbeth Salander

Both

1. had traumatic childhoods.
2. are brilliant in their skills; can code their way to the moon and back.
3. are as antisocial as a pissed off rattlesnake
4. Suffer physical trauma at the hands of Really Bad Folks
5. ..and get sweet revenge

 

 

[caseylane]

I'm not a fan of Amy Acker. I have issues with women that sound like little girls. Plus now she's the last minute save so much it's starting to piss me off. Oh look, our hero is in peril, don't worry, here comes Super Root to the rescue with 2 guns blazing while not bothering to aim. She'll save the day....Gag.

Edited April 4, 2014 by caseylane

[kahauna]

Always been a Root fan - I wouldn't have minded seeing her kill Ma'am, for sure...just as I'd have loved to see Shaw put a hot one in Hersh's frontal lobe at the restaurant. Oh well....

Edited May 2, 2014 by kahauna

[janeta]

Root is sounding more and more like a Magic 8 Ball. But in a good way.

[Dagny]

I think Root is skipping the double and going for the single entendre.

[IndependentMind]

From the get go, I was intrigued by Root. I found her craziness endearing.

I was happy when it was announced that she was a series regular.

I love Fusco's nickname for her "Cccoa Puff". lol

It will be very interesting what season 4 brings not only for her but the rest of the team. I love dynamics with Shaw.

[IndependentMind]

I wonder if we will see more of Root this 4th season

Edited July 11, 2014 by IndependentMind

[caseylane]

God I hope not. Having her show up to save the day has really cheapened the show to me. I wish she were gone.

[IndependentMind]

Well, from the intetview that Nolan and Greg gave after season finale they mentioned Root and how we will find out what it is that Root put on those servers to make them no longer targets.

I love Root. She and Shaw are so fun to watch.

[immortalfrieza]

At some point the show has to explain what happened to Root from the age of 10 when Hannah was kidnapped and murdered to her losing her mother (she stayed and took care of her mother until she died, and then how she became an assassin. There are gaps there. If we follow the timeline, Root is 3 years younger than Hannah meaning when Carter and Reese went to Texas, they thought Root was Hannah and they estimated her age to be 35 but as it turned out Root is Samantha Groves, whose mother died 10 years earlier, so that means she left Texas at 22 after her mother died. And I don't think she was killing already at that time. Something happened to her that she lost all human compassion or lost her trust in humanity. Obviously she has feelings because she took care of her mother. I don't think there was ever a father in the picture.

    I do think she was already a hacker even then in Texas and I think that is how she paid for her mother's medical bills. I think he and her mother were poor and came from the other side of the tracks based on how that Librarian detest attitude towards her. She was probably teased a lot as a child for being poor. Somehow, I think she was recruited mainly as a hacker but eventually, became a hacker by getting tangled in that web.

 

It's not hard for me to imagine though. Root already hated people in general from the beginning, seeing them as flawed or "bad code" as she would put it while Hanna and her mother was the only people she cared about. She became obsessed with computers because they don't make mistakes or anything, which she viewed as perfect. When Hanna is murdered and Root is unable to get anyone to help her or believe who the killer is, it breaks her, and she becomes even more obsessively attached to computers and it creates a complete detachment within herself from the rest of humanity. Root takes care of her one attachment to humanity left, her mother until she dies, then cutting herself off completely. If she was poor as you suggest then Root taking a gradual escalation from petty crime to a full on career in assassination over the ten years to afford to take care of her mother isn't much of a stretch, including hacking money as suggested. Eventually Root's hacking efforts lead her to learning about The Machine and thus her obsession with computers lead her to develop a sort of religious worship of the "Ultimate Computer," and POI goes from there.

[stealinghome]

Yeah, Root's easily my favorite character, but I don't think we really need to see what happened to her in between Hanna's disappearance and when we first met her in the show. I doubt she had something else hugely traumatic happen to her that we don't know about; slow (or not-so-slow) descent into the criminal world is something that I could absolutely, totally buy for her, so I'm not sure how illustrative flashbacks would be.

 

Plus, part of what's fun about Root is the mystery of the character. Even more so than Reese/Finch/Shaw, exposing too much of her past would be a mistake, imo. (Double plus, giving someone on this show a lot of backstory usually means they're getting killed off, so!)

[johntfs]

I love Root when she's doing her "manic pixie nightmare girl" thing of taking apparently random action that lead to some covert payoff.

[Mari]

I need to preface my comments with the disclosure that I am a latecomer to POI, and have not seen all of season 3, yet.  I don't mind spoilers at all, but it does mean that I'll have missed some stuff that might contradict what I have to say.  If that's so, feel free to let me know what I've gotten wrong.

As for Root's sexuality, I strongly believe she's not interested in men and women, at least. I simply can't imagine her in a romantic relationship.

 

From what I've seen so far, I think I agree with you.  I've no clue how deep Root's feelings for Shaw actually run, but to a certain extent the flirting always comes across to me less like she actually wants a relationship with Shaw, and more like a game--I've wondered if Shaw actually tried to initiate a relationship, if Root would panic and retreat.

 

She's good at reading people, and she knows Shaw doesn't attach, and from the impressions I have of Root so far, she doesn't attach very much, usually, either.

 

Granted, I'm shipping it hard, so this may well be wishful thinking talking!--but, since the Root character seems clearly to have an expiration date, I wouldn't put it past the writers to pull another Carter/Reese and have something happen with Shaw/Root basically right before Root gets killed off.*

I'm not always good a picking up this stuff, and I'm curious.  What are the clues that indicate to you that Root is a limited run character?

 

(Like I said--I came to the show late.  I've seen bits of season 3, all of season 4 so far, and seasons 1 and 2, not necessarily in order.  I was surprised that Root was a character introduced before Shaw.)

Edited December 27, 2014 by Mari

[Bort]

I I'm not always good a picking up this stuff, and I'm curious.  What are the clues that indicate to you that Root is a limited run character?

There's been a great deal of debate this season over interpretation of the foreshadowing. Many seem to think it indicates Root's days are numbered. I, personally, think Root is going to one day have to pick between The Machine's welfare vs. Shaw's life and that she'll pick Shaw.

[mad_typist]

From what I've seen so far, I think I agree with you.  I've no clue how deep Root's feelings for Shaw actually run, but to a certain extent the flirting always comes across to me less like she actually wants a relationship with Shaw, and more like a game--I've wondered if Shaw actually tried to initiate a relationship, if Root would panic and retreat.

 

At this point, it kind of feels like Root loves Shaw on some weird level. I mean... look at this face:

 

 

Having said that, I think her ultimate loyalty is to The Machine. Which, of course, leads me to think that the obvious conflict Root will have to face is choosing between the two of them.

[stealinghome]

I've wondered if Shaw actually tried to initiate a relationship, if Root would panic and retreat.

Let me start by saying that my comments assume that Root and Shaw didn't have sex when they went off for their "all night decontamination" in 4x07 (I thought they did at the time, but 4x09 suggests to me they didn't). BUT if we assume they're not already sleeping together: oh, I absolutely think Root would panic and retreat if Shaw ever tried to start a real relationship, or even just started actively flirting back. But I don't think it means she doesn't have feelings for Shaw. On the contrary, I think Root cares deeply for Shaw and that fact freaks her the hell out. Just look at her reaction to Shaw in 4x09 when Shaw put on her sexy voice and bedroom eyes: totally flustered, unprepared, suddenly the uncool kid at school, you can practically SEE the "RETREAT!" thought bubble flashing over her head in neon lights, and even in a life-or-death situation she still almost gave in to Shaw's idiotic idea. You're not that affected by a sexy face/voice unless you have a thing for someone.

 

I tend to think Root has it bad for Shaw but tries to play it off like she doesn't. I do think the flirting with Shaw started off as a game for Root--she's such a dick about the flirting in Mors Praematura, she's so obviously doing it to be obnoxious--but by the end of S3, and certainly by Prophets when she wanted Finch to give Shaw a message if she died, I think that had changed. The flirting feels very different now relative to the early S3 flirting, imo.

 

I I'm not always good a picking up this stuff, and I'm curious.  What are the clues that indicate to you that Root is a limited run character?

There's been a great deal of debate this season over interpretation of the foreshadowing. Many seem to think it indicates Root's days are numbered. I, personally, think Root is going to one day have to pick between The Machine's welfare vs. Shaw's life and that she'll pick Shaw.

Re: the foreshadowing, at this point I don't think anyone's dying this season. The show has worked WAY too hard to be like "WE ARE SURROUNDED BY DEATH. DEATH HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. SOMEONE COULD DIE AT ANY TIME. DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH" for it to be anything other than a red herring. In my opinion (Good Wife joke!).

 

I do think Root is going to have a "pick Shaw or The Machine" moment, and I think it's going to be tied to Root's loss of faith in The Machine that the show keeps hinting at. I'm not sure it's going to be a straight-up Shaw vs The Machine choice--like "you can install a Samaritan-killing virus OR save Shaw's life, but not both"--I'm thinking it might more be a situation where The Machine concocts a plan that will put Shaw in extreme danger, or if Shaw's backed into a corner somewhere The Machine tells the rest of the team to leave her because the odds of them all surviving a rescue attempt are very slim, etc. But Root definitely seems primed to have a crisis of confidence in The Machine, and as Shaw is the only other entity she cares about nearly as much, it makes sense to me that Shaw would be involved.

 

I do ultimately, however, see Root dying. I'm not really sure why, other than that as The Machine's prophet she has a huge target on her back (prophets almost never make it to the promised land) and I definitely think she wants to die a martyr (she clearly has a strong suicidal/self-sacrificial streak). Plus, I think there will probably be another major death before the series is over, and Root is the most expendable core cast member aside from Fusco; we all know they're not killing Reese or Finch--at least not until the series finale--and I think the show would rather keep Shaw over Root. I mean, I hope I'm wrong--Root's by far my favorite character, I want her and Shaw to ride off into the sunset with Bear Jr.--but I do think she dies eventually. Probably saving Shaw and/or The Machine.

[Mari]

Let me start by saying that my comments assume that Root and Shaw didn't have sex when they went off for their "all night decontamination" in 4x07 (I thought they did at the time, but 4x09 suggests to me they didn't). BUT if we assume they're not already sleeping together: oh, I absolutely think Root would panic and retreat if Shaw ever tried to start a real relationship, or even just started actively flirting back. But I don't think it means she doesn't have feelings for Shaw. On the contrary, I think Root cares deeply for Shaw and that fact freaks her the hell out.

Thanks for the answer on the foreshadowing. ;)

 

I've no opinion on whether or not Root and Shaw actually had sex or not; I can see sex being something both women are used to using when necessary, and based on the little I know about Root so far, it would surprise me if sex and deep feelings were significantly tied together for her. 

 

And I guess I agree in that, while I don't think sex with Shaw would make Root retreat, I do think that if Root truly believed there was reciprocal deep feelings, she would bunny out of there.  I think she considers Shaw safe on that end, simply because of Shaw's emotional issues.

 

 

 

At this point, it kind of feels like Root loves Shaw on some weird level. I mean... look at this face:

I can believe that Root cares for Shaw, as much as Root can care for any actual person.  (Although I have to admit the face to me says less "I love you." and more "You simple, naïve, sweet fool.")

[stealinghome]

Hee! I think her mouth is saying "you sweet, naive, innocent newborn baby," but her aggressive heart eyes (to quote tumblr) are saying "I want to marry you, have two kids and Bear Jr with you, and move to Massachusetts to run a small B&B while we make Boston crime-free on our downtime." ;)

Edited December 28, 2014 by stealinghome

[johntfs]

Root is a fascinating character.  This is a woman who spent most of her life avoiding meaningful human relationships and effectively turning herself into something very much like a type of AI that Harold feared - a being that cared for nothing but pursuing whatever objective she had at the time.  It ultimately took intervention by and dialogue with a true artificial intelligence, The Machine, to put her on a road back to full humanity.

[Julia]

It's just a shame they had to fridge two other female characters to do it, although I have to admit that shoehorning in a relationship between Root and Shaw did put them in the unique position of fridging a female character to trigger life learning through womanpain.

[Agent Dark]

Shaw wasn't fridged at all.  Fridging implies that the only reason for the death is to further other character's (usually male characters) or to further the plot.  Shaw's "death" was entirely about her own character, and how she interacts with the world of Person of Interest.  There are of course the real-world reasons why Shahi has to take a leave of absence.

 

Of course Root is going to take the loss of Shaw hard, and I'll be expecting some deep emotions to boil over as Root seeks answers/vengeance.  But to say that Shaw died just for Roots womanpain I think completely misses the point of how Shaw "went out". 

 

Carter and Reese might be a different story, but I am willing to cut the producers alot of slack because they've shown in good faith that they know what they're doing with this show.  If they say they had always planned Carter's exit right from the beginning of the show, then I'll believe them.  This is not, say, Arrow where their producers can crap on all they want but it doesn't change the fact that Sara Lance was killed off for no reason.

[Julia]

Whereas I, on the other hand, do believe she was fridged. The actress had to leave. The producers had a choice of how to accomplish that. Once again, the departing woman shared a tender kiss with another character who was all the more bereft afterwards because they totally were in love, didn't they kiss? So, yeah, I think Shaw's being willing to die for her friends is in character for her, and I think they made Shoot (or whatever they're calling that ship) canon so Root can officially be the grieving widow and become more human.

 

That's the thing about opinions. They're not facts, even if they're very deeply held.

[Mars477]

I've never liked the whole Shaw/Root thing.  Shaw is so much better (platonically) with pretty much everyone else, especially Reese and Fusco, that putting so much time into Shaw and Root just reeked of wasted opportunities.  Especially considering that Shahi's time on the series was going to be limited.

[stealinghome]

The actress had to leave. The producers had a choice of how to accomplish that.

Yes and no. imo, the only way to write Shaw off in a way that respected the core of the character herself, and the larger narrative, was to create a situation where she was forcibly separated from the team and prevented from returning to them initially (or dead, obvs). Shaw is, for better or worse, tied with John as the most loyal character on the show--I would not in a million years buy any situation in which she chose to be separated from the rest of the team, or was even begrudgingly okay with it. Obviously we'll see how the show handles her absence after the initial capture by Samaritan, and how they choose to write her back in when/if Shahi comes back, but given the character in question, anything less than being captured initially wasn't really going to fly.

 

Obviously ymmv, but I wouldn't consider Shaw fridged (or "fridged," because all signs are that she's alive) for Root's sake simply because Shahi had to leave the show. She said in an interview she was told she couldn't work past the six-month mark, so it's not even like the show had the option of giving Shaw some bad injury and confining her to the turtle cave for the back half--they had to write her off entirely. So it's not like the writers woke up one day and thought "gee, we really want to cause immense womanpain for Root/manpain for the dudes of the team, we're going to write Shaw off!" It was more like "oh shit, Sarah Shahi has to leave, how can we make lemonade from this lemon?" Being forced into writing a character off, and choosing the most dramatic way possible to spin something you're forced into writing, is, imo, different than choosing to write a character off expressly for womanpain/manpain purposes.

 

Frankly, if there's a silver lining, it's that Shaw's death should (imo) stop the "will Root go to Samaritan?" speculation. Root LOVES The Machine, in a totally devoted and unhealthy and obsessive way, so I never found that line of thought particularly credible to begin with, but now that Samaritan has "killed" Shaw? Pigs would actually fly before Root joined it.

 

and I think they made Shoot (or whatever they're calling that ship) canon so Root can officially be the grieving widow and become more human.

Shoot was already canon before the kiss though. ;) As much as I love that we got a Shoot kiss before Shahi left, I don't think the kiss changed much of anything in terms of Root's reaction to Shaw's death. She still would have--would be might be a better tense, I suppose, as it's ongoing--losing her shit and searching desperately for Shaw.

 

I do think the fandom has settled on Shoot as the ship name, btw. I've seen Raw a few places, but Shoot generally seems to have won out. ;)

 

Shaw is so much better (platonically) with pretty much everyone else, especially Reese and Fusco

I could maybe agree on Fusco--Shahi and Chapman had great bickering, odd-couple buddy chemistry, way better than Chapman and Caviezel do, I still wish the show had made Shaw Fusco's partner this season--but strongly disagree on Reese and Shaw. I enjoyed their snarky, sibling-like relationship, but imo it was relatively superficial; Reese's relationships with Carter and Finch, and Shaw's with Root, Fusco, and even (I would argue) Finch, have more depth. Plus, while I think Shaw made Reese more interesting, I can't say the reverse was true.

[kahauna]

I just hope we get more of “two-guns” Root....

[DEM]

My problem with Root & Shaw is that they started out with intriguing scary team possibilities (a sort of dark-mirror-image Reese & Finch) but devolved into rather empty pablum. The writers never did anything of substance with them beyond the ~romance, so at the end it became "Root's been flirting with Shaw for a long time and somewhere along the way Root's taunting turned into real feelings, so Shaw's big mandate in her ~death episode is reciprocate."  Say what?  So. Much. Wrong.

 

There was so much potential and it was squandered and mishandled. Back in mid-S3 on TWoP I was "Hey! Arc! Is anyone seeing this?! Intriiiiguing!", but by the end that had become, "OK, Root needs to cry when Shaw goes MIA; let's get this over with."

Edited January 24, 2015 by DEM

[immortalfrieza]

Frankly, if there's a silver lining, it's that Shaw's death should (imo) stop the "will Root go to Samaritan?" speculation. Root LOVES The Machine, in a totally devoted and unhealthy and obsessive way, so I never found that line of thought particularly credible to begin with, but now that Samaritan has "killed" Shaw? Pigs would actually fly before Root joined it.

 

IMHO, this is the first time that the show has given a halfway good reason why Root stuck with Team Machine instead of jumping ship to Samaritan the first chance she got. It's kind of bizarre that Root hasn't switched sides, seeing that Samaritan's way of thinking just about completely matches Root's own way of thinking for most of her life while The Machine's way of thinking runs pretty much completely contrary to hers. I found the scene with the conversation between Root and the Samaritan child so weird precisely because the things the Samaritan child and Root were saying to each other were the same sort of stuff that Root had been saying to Finch in similar conversations not too long ago but with the roles reversed, Root was the one arguing against free will and the value of human life while Finch was supporting them.

 

It's like somebody that truly believes violence and murder are the best solutions deciding to become a follower of a completely pacifistic order while staying in that order despite a pain and death cult opening just down the street. It's just so opposite of Root's nature to stay with Team Machine now that she has another option. Shaw's "death" however does give Root at least ONE reason to actually be against Samaritan at this point.

[DEM]

My UO: Root is the best character on the show and my #1 reason to watch. However, I'm not really into her redemption arc - I don't mind the idea, per se, but I just don't buy Shaw as the catalyst. Their relationship hasn't been built up and explored well enough for that. Root/Finch and Root/Machine are both way more compelling and developed, IMHO.

Bringing this over from the Unpopular Opinions thread because I don't want my reply to be misconstrued as an attack on an unpopular opinion...

If it helps, I don't think that's what the show has been saying. I think the narrative has been showing The Machine and Finch as the main catalysts. If Root's change and Shaw have been tied together in any way, it's more that wanting a 'real' relationship with Shaw is a consequence of Root's changes.

I do agree that the relationship between Root and Shaw has been, er, not particularly well-written, and certainly not well enough that when "Shaw, who has no feelings, plants one on Root and in the moment right after that gets a sudden hit of, ‘Wait a second, I did feel something.'" No, Plageman, no.

Edited March 13, 2015 by DEM

[stealinghome]

If it helps, I don't think that's what the show has been saying. I think the narrative has been showing The Machine and Finch as the main catalysts. If Root's change and Shaw have been tied together in any way, it's more that wanting a 'real' relationship with Shaw is a consequence of Root's changes.

ITA. I ship Shoot like nobody's business, but I've never gotten from the show that Root is changing because of Shaw--the driving force behind her evolution has always definitely seemed to be The Machine (and Finch, but to a lesser extent and only later, after The Machine had opened the door). For me that was really cemented in Root Path. The push/pull between Root and The Machine in that episode was just fascinating, but it was definitely between Root and TM, with Harold as a sort of referee or guide or interpreter.* Shaw was really not in the episode at all. In fact, she was kind of hilariously sidelined.

 

That's one of the things the show has done really right in my book, actually, for Root and Root/Shaw more broadly. The Shoot relationship is a side effect/consequence of Root's "redemption," not the motivation for; Root has a chance of being with Shaw because she's changing, but she's not changing because of her feelings for/desire to be with Shaw. I'm sick to death of the "love of a good girl/boy redeems a bad girl/boy" trope, so I really appreciate that PoI has, in my view, avoided it, and grown Root's character much more authentically as a result.

 

*=And side note, can I just say I love how much of a distinct character the writers have been able to make The Machine, with her own tics and personality and everything? It's really impressive--most shows wouldn't even come close to pulling it off.

Edited March 13, 2015 by stealinghome

[DNR]

I just hope we get more of “two-guns” Root....

I LOVE when Root walks , two guns blazing ! It's so kick ass . I would love to see AA on my TV screen again in a lead role . She's fantastic

[DNR]

Fanmade video Root & Shoot fans will enjoy .( I'd totally switch teams for Amy & Sarah ?? ).  Anxiously awaiting Shaw's return ~ This final season looks epic 

[DNR]

One more fan made vid for the "Shoot" shippers like me.  AA & SS have such amazing chemistry. Will they live or die together... Or left to suffer alone without the other.  I was hit in the feels as Root searched for Shaw unsuccessfully thru the Machine in ep 2 Snafu Root looked sooo sad ( loving Amy acker this season so far) . I can think of nothing but Shaws return right now lol

 

i watch commercials for current shows , new shows and I'm like WTF CBS , why is POI ending - some of these shows are not up to par.  Enjoy Shippers !!