2019 Auditions, Finals, and Training Camp Spoilers

[MrsEVH]

41 minutes ago, BBK said:

...and about the first ‘Mean’ Reaction Video, K & J weren’t actually laughing at the girls, they were laughing at themselves & their reactions & if anything, Judy took the brunt of Kelli’s jokes for how she reacts & behaves to the girls being cut. Judy did have good comebacks tho...

I react the same way they do, when I hear or see Vivian & I automatically think of ‘The Poem’. About a year or two ago, they did a ‘Where are they now’ with Vivian...she’s fine...married...kids...& still lyrical dancing...she even laughed at herself for the poem. Remember when Kitty told her she wasn’t a lyrical dancer, but she went on ahead & did a piece for finals? Or when during a meeting with DCC’s Media Guy, she referred to her FB followers as her fans & she was constantly looking at herself in the mirror & fluffing her hair, til Judy called her out on it? Yea, she needed to be cut...

I still love Meagan F telling off K & J. I don't recall the exact words but Kelli said something like "I think we got scolded"  after Meagan walked out of the office. .Anybody recall what it was?

I think Vivian thought she was a "shoo in" (quoting Chelsea) because she made it back to TC a 2nd time. Didn't seem to work as hard and it backfired at her.

Edited July 20, 2019 by MrsEVH

[Jessie S]

33 minutes ago, parrotfeathers said:

Vivian got married and has kids??

Vivian is not married with children yet. She has a serious boyfriend and is currently a USA cheerleader.  She's very big on promoting body positively and loving her curves. Seemed like she was starving herself to get on DCC.  She looks great!  A lot of ladies do that to get that DCC figure and as soon as they stop, It all piles on. I was wondering if VK got caught in that trap last year. She seems like shes a super gym bunny this year according to her IG. She looks great! 

[BBK]

2 hours ago, Jessie S said:

Vivian is not married with children yet. She looks great! 

WAIT?!?! This ISN’T the forum for the Cowboys Football Team?!?!

 I joke...

Thank You all for clarifying that Miss V isn’t married with children...I’m gonna blame that on having a Senior Moment...plus, I’ve seen so many DCC alumni marriage videos lately, that maybe V blended in there somewhere 🤷🏻‍♂️ I am glad she is in a much better place now. Y’all remember Amy Simone? She’s doing great also...

I DO remember Megan F & her ‘scolding’ K&J 😂😂 I liked her...I didn’t like the oral book report she had to give though some seasons ago

Edited July 20, 2019 by BBK

[LincolnCentMe]

Does anyone think that there may be a strong possibility that Charlotte has given the approval for a 38-40 group squad? 

I personally think it’s a strong possibility. Just my two Lincoln cents. 

[Holly85]

13 minutes ago, LincolnCentMe said:

Does anyone think that there may be a strong possibility that Charlotte has given the approval for a 38-40 group squad? 

I personally think it’s a strong possibility. Just my two Lincoln cents. 

That’s a possibility 

[Jess14]

2 hours ago, Stee said:

Whether or not a girl has signed away the rights to being embarrassed or teased on national TV, Marshall’s argument is wrong. 

The context in 2019 is different than 2009. If you watch the current iterations of American Idol, The Voice, So You Think You Can Dance or America’s Got Talent, these shows have stopped focusing on “bad” auditions or humiliating people who lack self awareness. Now they focus on unique individuals with heartwarming backstories or people who have defied the odds - in today’s world, we celebrate difference, we don’t mock it or make fun of it.

Simon Cowell, the king of mean has softened. Nigel Lythgoe as well. Even former fans of “Tell it like it is” Kitty Carter have turned on her mean spiritedness. Gone are the days of laughing at William Hung for entertainment. Judges on competition shows offer positive feedback and empower contestants, they don’t humiliate them. What was fine on previous seasons doesn’t fly anymore, but the producers of DCC don’t seem to have gotten the memo or changed with the times. What’s worse - they are promoting negativity and meanspirtedness. Emphasizing it. Reveling in this form of privilege and entitlement.  

Its one thing for the doctor who auditions every year to be featured or teased - she’s in on the joke and in control of her own narrative - but it’s another to promote watching an 18 year old girl cry or laugh at a belly jiggle, for entertainment purposes. So Marshall can stick up for it all he wants, but they cannot be surprised by - or worse, criticize - the fans who ask them to act with compassion, professionalism or maturity.

Also, isn’t DCC all about female empowerment?  Conflicting messages if you ask me!  

Amen to all of this. Whether Malena or Vivian should’ve reacted differently or whether some of these girls shouldn’t have tried out in the first place is a completely different issue, IMO. I’m sure Malena knows that her reaction when she got cut was not her finest hour. I’m sure it’s bad enough to know that lots of fans think that she came off terribly, but for her to see a video where the choreographer and director are replaying the scene a year later and cringing at her probably stings about 100x more.

Ultimately, to me, this is about the director and choreographer pulling out clips (some years after the fact) and laughing at/mocking/criticizing contestants, many of whom are not affiliated with the Cowboys, in a promo video. This would be considered blatantly unprofessional in any other setting. Now I get that it’s a reality tv show, but they’re selective about when they use the “reality tv” excuse, and they’re the ones who talk about being classy and empowering. They put the label on themselves. 

[CruiseGirl]

Shelly confirmed no rookies going to Oxnard and only 5 cuts made 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Cruisegirl

[Weeklydcc]

3 hours ago, Stee said:

Whether or not a girl has signed away the rights to being embarrassed or teased on national TV, Marshall’s argument is wrong. 

The context in 2019 is different than 2009. If you watch the current iterations of American Idol, The Voice, So You Think You Can Dance or America’s Got Talent, these shows have stopped focusing on “bad” auditions or humiliating people who lack self awareness. Now they focus on unique individuals with heartwarming backstories or people who have defied the odds - in today’s world, we celebrate difference, we don’t mock it or make fun of it.

Simon Cowell, the king of mean has softened. Nigel Lythgoe as well. Even former fans of “Tell it like it is” Kitty Carter have turned on her mean spiritedness. Gone are the days of laughing at William Hung for entertainment. Judges on competition shows offer positive feedback and empower contestants, they don’t humiliate them. What was fine on previous seasons doesn’t fly anymore, but the producers of DCC don’t seem to have gotten the memo or changed with the times. What’s worse - they are promoting negativity and meanspirtedness. Emphasizing it. Reveling in this form of privilege and entitlement.  

Its one thing for the doctor who auditions every year to be featured or teased - she’s in on the joke and in control of her own narrative - but it’s another to promote watching an 18 year old girl cry or laugh at a belly jiggle, for entertainment purposes. So Marshall can stick up for it all he wants, but they cannot be surprised by - or worse, criticize - the fans who ask them to act with compassion, professionalism or maturity.

Also, isn’t DCC all about female empowerment?  Conflicting messages if you ask me!  

I get all your points, but I still say those particular women do it for attention.  They want to be shown and laughed at.  I really believe that.  And none of them look 18.  They look like slightly older women who are completely aware that they will be showcased for comic relief and have no chance or intention of making the team.  They're dream is not to be a DCC.  They're dream is to get attention on national TV as a joke and it works.  Just my opinion.

[Squeek]

4 hours ago, parrotfeathers said:

4 hours ago, BBK said:

they did a ‘Where are they now’ with Vivian...she’s fine...married...kids...& still lyrical dancing...she even laughed at herself for the poem.

Vivian got married and has kids??

Uh no, she just got engaged last week.  

[Bellisima08]

On 7/19/2019 at 5:08 PM, jlc said:

CMT has been showing season 13 for a couple weeks now. I had to stop watching when she called Dayton in to give her the you aren't going to make the team because of who your mom is. I was so mad I almost threw up!

I just binge watched season 13 OnDemand and the favortism towards VK is clear from the start. Some of the best examples: during her solo one of the female judges (can't recall her name but she was the one who later asked them questions in the faux TV interviews) started tearing up & getting very emotional & Marshall gave her this look like "I don't get why you're making such a fuss." Then later on when they were reviewing their performances, one of the male judges called VK soft & mentioned how she flailed around & Kelli narrowed her eyes & said "oh really". Then there was the whole thing with her weight gain & how they even let her get 11 pounds heavier when they have busted others cheerleaders for gaining less. And let's not forget Kitty brushing aside VK's weight gain & telling Kelli to give her a chance to turn it around, while in the same  breath she's picking on Vets for their hair or not being noticable.

The hypocrisy too is stunning particularly when it comes to how Dayton was treated compared to VK. Dayton was called out far more often for mistakes whereas when VK messed up, she was treated with kid gloves & called "a beautiful storm." The big thing that ticked me off (knowing what I know now) was Kelli telling Dayton that she wouldn't be getting a spot because of who her mother is. I laughed out loud when that scene came up because we all know that she promised VK a spot due to her closeness to Tina. Its just amazing to me that Kelli & Judy are risking the integrity of the whole training camp process for just one girl.

[CruiseGirl]

3 hours ago, LincolnCentMe said:

Does anyone think that there may be a strong possibility that Charlotte has given the approval for a 38-40 group squad? 

I personally think it’s a strong possibility. Just my two Lincoln cents. 

I believe they are having a hard time cutting once again this year as the talent seems to get better and better each year. Last year Kelli did a lot of the cuts towards the end of camp. I did propose this question to Shelly as she is having a Q & A on her IG story so I’ll let you how it’s answered. 

[kalibean]

@ShellyB - cracking me up on Instagram! You falling out of your chair with all the #dccpoint questions 😂😂

Lawd we are all so nosy. Can’t wait for the new season to start 🙌

[lkxydhfinl ghsdv]

Shelly also said that there will be 13 episodes this year...

[HowdeeDo]

Cameos are tomorrow and Monday 

[scorpio1031]

Shelly also said squad is set for 36 girls - no more.  So, 4 more cuts.

[MrsEVH]

2 hours ago, Bellisima08 said:

I just binge watched season 13 OnDemand and the favortism towards VK is clear from the start. Some of the best examples: during her solo one of the female judges (can't recall her name but she was the one who later asked them questions in the faux TV interviews) started tearing up & getting very emotional & Marshall gave her this look like "I don't get why you're making such a fuss."

I think it was Brenda who teared up. She was the one who gave Kat a hard time about her dress with the cutouts on the sides. 

Meredith Land was the one who did the fake interviews. Both are TV anchors or reporters.

Edited July 21, 2019 by MrsEVH

[scorpio1031]

9 minutes ago, MrsEVH said:

I think it was Brenda who teared up. She was the one who gave Kat a hard time about her dress with the cutouts on the sides. 

I think Meredith Land was the one who did the fake interviews.

Brenda did them last year, cause of course, she mentioned Victoria's mom wearing the uniform.  

Edited July 21, 2019 by scorpio1031

[LincolnCentMe]

28 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

Shelly also said squad is set for 36 girls - no more.  So, 4 more cuts.

Maybe she said that bc legally she cannot say anything otherwise. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤔

[CruiseGirl]

6 hours ago, LincolnCentMe said:

Does anyone think that there may be a strong possibility that Charlotte has given the approval for a 38-40 group squad? 

I personally think it’s a strong possibility. Just my two Lincoln cents. 

Here is the answer from Shelly. It’s 36

9 minutes ago, LincolnCentMe said:

Maybe she said that bc legally she cannot say anything otherwise. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤔

She just responded to me and I posted above but she said the squad is set at 36

[dbell1]

With a heat wave on, I've binged on S13 all weekend. So sick of all the reality show commercials. (shove off Chicago Ink and The Hills). 🙄 But even more sick of that pile of teeth and hair hijacking the season. Kelly dragged some obvious cuts out too far. And Kitty needs declawing. 

My wish for this season is different music. And less teeth and hair taking over the screen. I’ll miss Kash and Lacey. And Lauren and Tasha. Big boots to fill for this season.

[PrincessLeia]

I heard from a good source last year that Charlotte absolutely put her foot down and made Kelli cut to 36, so it’s highly unlikely that she’ll let her go up to 38 this year. More cuts are coming. 

[BBK]

6 minutes ago, dbell1 said:

My wish for this season is different music. 

Funny you mentioned this...the song ‘Fireball’ by Pitbull has is stuck in my head (with corresponding Pom moves...of course) this past week 🕺🏻🔥🎉🤯😮

[DCCFanInKy]

10 minutes ago, BBK said:

Funny you mentioned this...the song ‘Fireball’ by Pitbull has is stuck in my head (with corresponding Pom moves...of course) this past week 🕺🏻🔥🎉🤯😮

I just binged the last episode of last season on CMT.com and I have "Thunderstruck" stuck in my head.

Edited July 21, 2019 by DCCFanInKy
formatting

[ThreaLevelMidnight]

Oh gosh please tell me the rumors about Amy being point are false. Her personality and her dancing just give off a repelling combo of annoying and arrogant.

My votes for point, in order: Gina, Bridget, Caroline, Heather. 

[Squeek]

11 minutes ago, ThreaLevelMidnight said:

Oh gosh please tell me the rumors about Amy being point are false. Her personality and her dancing just give off a repelling combo of annoying and arrogant.

My votes for point, in order: Gina, Bridget, Caroline, Heather. 

Point has NOT been decided.

[KickPretty]

I vote for Judy’s Stool as point girl! 😂😂 She got all the stickers 👍🏽👍🏽

[HowdeeDo]

34 minutes ago, ThreaLevelMidnight said:

Oh gosh please tell me the rumors about Amy being point are false. Her personality and her dancing just give off a repelling combo of annoying and arrogant.

My votes for point, in order: Gina, Bridget, Caroline, Heather. 

...Amy’s personality is straight out of Disney channel sunshine land. Not sure how you see it as arrogant over Gina but to each their own. 

[LincolnCentMe]

1 hour ago, PrincessLeia said:

I heard from a good source last year that Charlotte absolutely put her foot down and made Kelli cut to 36, so it’s highly unlikely that she’ll let her go up to 38 this year. More cuts are coming. 

Perhaps but Char has had an entire year to think about the possibility of the request being requested again. 

If TPTB are truly world class, I would like to think that they would entertain the idea of budgeting a bit more money for this if she thought that this may be requested again, ESPECIALLY knowing that VK would at some point have a guaranteed spot. Charlotte knows that VK isn’t the best dancer on the squad nor is VK the best advocate for their world class reputation. So I think that maybe just maybe Char took this into consideration when deciding on if she would allow a larger squad of 36.

Also as a side note, Jerry Jones just recently bought an Oil & Gas company which if this new company takes off & succeeds in the O&G industry, I would like to think that some of this revenue may perhaps allow the DCC to have a slightly bigger budget.

But who really knows. Certainly not me but here’s to hoping that this in the clouds idea actually comes true.  

[California Girl]

Meredith is gorgeous and has the DCC look.  She really should make the team, the dance perfection will come. 

And, fyi, one of my all-time favorite DCCs remains Selina for her beauty of spirit and character, so I really do appreciate the different strengths any particular young lady brings to the team.

[DCCFan197605]

On 7/16/2019 at 9:34 PM, SSAHotchner said:

There is no way I will ever believe that VK was better suited for SG than Jalyn. She was my favorite last year. Unless she appears horribly out of shape, I can think of no reason why she wouldn't have made it over every TCC or even some of the other vets. 

Heck, take VK off the table.  Seriously, both Rachels beat Jalyn for Show Group? This is some serious bullsugar.

[UnicornKicksBack]

5 hours ago, LincolnCentMe said:

Also as a side note, Jerry Jones just recently bought an Oil & Gas company which if this new company takes off & succeeds in the O&G industry, I would like to think that some of this revenue may perhaps allow the DCC to have a slightly bigger budget.

But who really knows. Certainly not me but here’s to hoping that this in the clouds idea actually comes true.  

Yeah not going to happen bc DCB, DCC, plus other Jones interests are all sep companies and their purpose is to make money not be loved or to share profits. DCC makes enough money to sustain itself at 36 or whatever so that’s what they get. Also why the girls get paid what they do - it’s how much money the org brings in. Jerry or any other successful business person won’t rob the profits of one company to pay for extra icing the cake of another one who already has enough icing to make itself sweet.

[Steelcitymermaid]

11 hours ago, Bellisima08 said:

I just binge watched season 13 OnDemand and the favortism towards VK is clear from the start. Some of the best examples: during her solo one of the female judges (can't recall her name but she was the one who later asked them questions in the faux TV interviews) started tearing up & getting very emotional & Marshall gave her this look like "I don't get why you're making such a fuss." Then later on when they were reviewing their performances, one of the male judges called VK soft & mentioned how she flailed around & Kelli narrowed her eyes & said "oh really". Then there was the whole thing with her weight gain & how they even let her get 11 pounds heavier when they have busted others cheerleaders for gaining less. And let's not forget Kitty brushing aside VK's weight gain & telling Kelli to give her a chance to turn it around, while in the same  breath she's picking on Vets for their hair or not being noticable.

The hypocrisy too is stunning particularly when it comes to how Dayton was treated compared to VK. Dayton was called out far more often for mistakes whereas when VK messed up, she was treated with kid gloves & called "a beautiful storm." The big thing that ticked me off (knowing what I know now) was Kelli telling Dayton that she wouldn't be getting a spot because of who her mother is. I laughed out loud when that scene came up because we all know that she promised VK a spot due to her closeness to Tina. Its just amazing to me that Kelli & Judy are risking the integrity of the whole training camp process for just one girl.

Long time reader here, love this forum. I just rewatched Season 12, Ep. 4 where the veterans, including Tina Kalina, are discussing the candidates during and following a rehearsal. Tina specifically states her concerns about Tasha and Stephanie and their weight gain; in Tasha's case it was 10 lbs. in one year. Tina says that she herself is sensitive because she had a weight issue as a cheerleader. She also called Tasha "wiggly". Yet she was upset a year later when her daughter was cut after gaining 11 lbs. in mere weeks? That scene stuck with me all last season, and I just now remembered which episode it was from. The double-standard is documented in many episodes, but that one has to be the most blatant considering what happened since it was taped. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this prior but I couldn't find a post referencing it. 

[Monique]

My guess is that since Amy is the only 5 year vet she’s gonna get point or pro bowl.

[Fansince1]

56 minutes ago, Monique said:

My guess is that since Amy is the only 5 year vet she’s gonna get point or pro bowl.

I could definitely get behind Amy for Pro Bowl. She's earned it!

[SmpIsimon]

9 hours ago, PrincessLeia said:

I heard from a good source last year that Charlotte absolutely put her foot down and made Kelli cut to 36, so it’s highly unlikely that she’ll let her go up to 38 this year. More cuts are coming. 

I wonder which deserving girl will get cut so that VK can have a spot?

[Pau84]

1 hour ago, Monique said:

My guess is that since Amy is the only 5 year vet she’s gonna get point or pro bowl.

That’s right. Would Amy be so fortunate if Simone, Amy ‘Superstar’ Trader, Elizabeth, Holly ‘Powerhouse’ Powell, Chantel, Mary and Megan ‘World Champion’ Carcioppolo would have stayed on the team?

I don’t think so, and this must be a point of concern for K&J.

Specially concidering how they are managing Jalyn, who is definitely, pound by pound, one of the best on the squad.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Pau84
Typo

[Weeklydcc]

1 hour ago, Pau84 said:

That’s right. Would Amy be so fortunate if Simone, Amy ‘Superstar’ Trader, Elizabeth, Holly ‘Powerhouse’ Powell, Chantel, Mary and Megan ‘World Champion’ Carcioppolo would have stayed on the team?

I don’t think so, and this must be a point of concern for K&J.

Specially concidering how they are managing Jalyn, who is definitely, pound by pound, one of the best on the squad.

It will be interesting to see which DCC emerge as the new it girls.  I think Madeline M, Molly, Ashlee and Alexis are all adorable.

[Newmanbritt]

2 hours ago, Monique said:

My guess is that since Amy is the only 5 year vet she’s gonna get point or pro bowl.

I think Heather will get pro bowl. Amy is kinda just there for me.. and you know if anyone else in her class was still there (Amy Trafer, Megan C, Holly, Robyn) Amy would be irrelevant and therefore, I wouldn’t consider she deserves it. That stuff shouldn’t be given to a person just because they decided to come back year after year

[Loves2Dance]

I can't figure out if Marshall blocked me or deleted his comment on the Facebook video of Kelli & Judy being mean girls. Can someone verify for me? He responded to a comment I made, but I was on my phone and didn't have a chance to reply---went to do that now and can't find it. 

He was getting his balls handed to him, so it wouldn't shock me if he deleted it. But, he also seems petty enough to block strangers on Facebook too, so it could also be that. 

[hathorlive]

23 hours ago, heckkitty said:

Not a Vikki fan, but I can’t hate on her here for wearing a romper with a loose top when Kelcey is standing next to her in a green sack with a stain on the front. 

It's interesting that she's wearing a top/romper thing that blouses out at the waist.  Is weight still an issue for her?  I don't think I would want to stand anywhere near Kat.  That girl is lean with the DCC body VK desperately wants.

[heckkitty]

8 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

It's interesting that she's wearing a top/romper thing that blouses out at the waist.  Is weight still an issue for her?  I don't think I would want to stand anywhere near Kat.  That girl is lean with the DCC body VK desperately wants.

I suspect that’s just a style she likes. Maybe she’s self conscious about her mid section because that’s where she had the most noticeable issues in the past. Her face, arms, & legs all look better in that pic than they did last year. 

[Stee]

21 minutes ago, Loves2Dance said:

I can't figure out if Marshall blocked me or deleted his comment on the Facebook video of Kelli & Judy being mean girls. Can someone verify for me? He responded to a comment I made, but I was on my phone and didn't have a chance to reply---went to do that now and can't find it. 

He was getting his balls handed to him, so it wouldn't shock me if he deleted it. But, he also seems petty enough to block strangers on Facebook too, so it could also be that. 

I just looked and didn’t see his comment so maybe he took it down.. or was asked to take it down!

[CruiseGirl]

10 hours ago, LincolnCentMe said:

Perhaps but Char has had an entire year to think about the possibility of the request being requested again. 

If TPTB are truly world class, I would like to think that they would entertain the idea of budgeting a bit more money for this if she thought that this may be requested again, ESPECIALLY knowing that VK would at some point have a guaranteed spot. Charlotte knows that VK isn’t the best dancer on the squad nor is VK the best advocate for their world class reputation. So I think that maybe just maybe Char took this into consideration when deciding on if she would allow a larger squad of 36.

Also as a side note, Jerry Jones just recently bought an Oil & Gas company which if this new company takes off & succeeds in the O&G industry, I would like to think that some of this revenue may perhaps allow the DCC to have a slightly bigger budget.

But who really knows. Certainly not me but here’s to hoping that this in the clouds idea actually comes true.  

Shelly confirmed last night on her IG story that it’s 36 

[Holly85]

1 hour ago, Weeklydcc said:

It will be interesting to see which DCC emerge as the new it girls.  I think Madeline M, Molly, Ashlee and Alexis are all adorable.

I yes they are !!! 

[CruiseGirl]

44 minutes ago, Loves2Dance said:

I can't figure out if Marshall blocked me or deleted his comment on the Facebook video of Kelli & Judy being mean girls. Can someone verify for me? He responded to a comment I made, but I was on my phone and didn't have a chance to reply---went to do that now and can't find it. 

He was getting his balls handed to him, so it wouldn't shock me if he deleted it. But, he also seems petty enough to block strangers on Facebook too, so it could also be that. 

I looks like he deleted  his comment all together. I had responded to his comment yesterday and this morning I get up and his comment is gone. He didn’t block me because I was able to search his name and find his FB page. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Cruisegirl

[parrotfeathers]

53 minutes ago, Newmanbritt said:

That stuff shouldn’t be given to a person just because they decided to come back year after year

Was Sidney Durso every pro bowl?

[viccib]

Just now, parrotfeathers said:

Was Sidney Durso every pro bowl?

no she wasn't

[CruiseGirl]

40 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

It's interesting that she's wearing a top/romper thing that blouses out at the waist.  Is weight still an issue for her?  I don't think I would want to stand anywhere near Kat.  That girl is lean with the DCC body VK desperately wants.

I’m surprised that romper is appropriate for DCC standards. She wore one to makeovers also. I have never seen a DCC in a short dress or skirt so I find it odd that it’s allowed. Maybe the have loosened the dress code 

[Loves2Dance]

6 minutes ago, Cruisegirl said:

I’m surprised that romper is appropriate for DCC standards. She wore one to makeovers also. I have never seen a DCC in a short dress or skirt so I find it odd that it’s allowed. Maybe the have loosened the dress code 

Rompers are very in right now so it could be a looser dress code. 

[parrotfeathers]

24 minutes ago, viccib said:

no she wasn't

I read "somewhere" that TPTB didn't care for Sidney?