S28.E02: First Elimination

[ams1001]

8 hours ago, Bridget said:

Lamar: “...after my accident...” 

Send him home. Now.

I don’t appreciate people lying or revising history because they don’t have the ability to be honest. Also, he looks absolutely miserable. Who wants to watch anyone that unhappy or irritable on TV? Not me.

I don't follow the Kardashians so I know really nothing of Lamar's story (until I googled him last night). He mentioned overdosing and said he wasn't doing drugs that night and maybe someone put something in his drink...and I was thinking, "wait, did I miss something? What was 'the accident'?" Because even if someone did put something in his drink, most people wouldn't refer to such a thing as "my accident." (That was when I googled him, 'cuz it sounded fishy. There was something about an accident that supposedly led to him getting into drugs in the first place, but that was much earlier than the incident that landed him in the hospital. And that accident involved him in a car that hit a kid on a bike, but he wasn't driving and also apparently wasn't injured.)

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The two astronauts dancing on the stage behind Kate and Pasha were ridiculous! I was imagining two random people just standing around during rehearsal and one of the producers said, "Put these two in astronaut suits. Don't worry if you can't dance. I just need you to do a few pas de bourées or something. No one will be looking at you anyway."

I was looking at them! They were hilarious! The aliens didn't make sense for the moon, though. At least we had astronauts on the moon.

3 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

The criticism makes sense ,except for when he says just do the DAHNCE without all the fluff. It's not their fault that they have to add fluff, or that their music is hip hop.. or that they have some props in the background. The show requires it and it's the show that wants big and flashy numbers. Sometimes the contestants get terrible songs to work with, but they are given the music so I hate when Len says stuff about the type of dance or the song.

It's so annoying when he nitpicks stuff that's not in the pro's control. And he should know damn well that if they just did technical dances without any extra showmanship this show wouldn't have made it to two seasons, let alone 28. The "fluff" is what makes it engaging for the average viewer. Most of us aren't watching ballroom dance competitions in our spare time.

2 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

People can create thousands of e-mail accounts to power vote

Who the hell has that kind of time...?

[boyznkatz]

17 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Who the hell has that kind of time...?

I've often wondered this. And why do they care so much??

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, boyznkatz said:

I've often wondered this. And why do they care so much??

Right? I've usually forgotten who even danced first by the end of the show.

[OnTime]

Can't they turn on the lights for Val/what's her name  and Alan/Hannah?

Why is the stage so dark just for them??

[boyznkatz]

By the way, who pissed in Len's cereal and why does he dislike Karamo? The guy deserved a better score than Sean Spicer! It smells like a conspiracy to me. Delusional TPTB must have told him to keep Spicer around thinking the yappy dork is going to bring them huge ratings.

Oh yeah, a yappy dumbass won last season, so nevermind 😞

Edited September 24, 2019 by boyznkatz

[crowceilidh]

Doesn't Len nearly always have someone he picks on fairly unreasonably?  I find it remarkable how often the person he picks on makes me raise my eyebrows at Len.  This instance, too.

Edited September 24, 2019 by crowceilidh

[boyznkatz]

1 minute ago, crowceilidh said:

Doesn't Len nearly always have someone he picks on fairy unreasonably?  I find it remarkable how often the person he picks on makes me raise my eyebrows at Len.  This instance, too.

Yep, I often think the same thing.

[iMonrey]

Quote

By the way, who pissed in Len's cereal and why does he dislike Karamo? The guy deserved a better score than Sean Spicer! It smells like a conspiracy to me. Delusional TPTB must have told him to keep Spicer around thinking the yappy dork is going to bring them huge ratings.

Agreed. 2 weeks in a row now he shits all over Karamo's performance but turns around and glad-handles people like Ray. I guess you have to be a sports celebrity to get the kid glove treatment.

Kate is really the surprise of the season IMO. She moves like a woman half her age. Plus she seems to be having a ball.

Quote

I tell you where Ally lost me quickly... she goes right from, oh, I was bullied (more like criticized like any celebrity) online for my dancing!

Maybe I'm awful but when she said "People posted videos of me on the internet and laughed at me"  . . . I laughed.

[spanana]

50 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

By the way, who pissed in Len's cereal and why does he dislike Karamo? The guy deserved a better score than Sean Spicer! It smells like a conspiracy to me. Delusional TPTB must have told him to keep Spicer around thinking the yappy dork is going to bring them huge ratings.

Oh yeah, a yappy dumbass won last season, so nevermind 😞

Eh.  I think Len's feedback was fine.  The 5 wasn't justified and he shouldn't have gotten the same score as Sean from Len.  So Sean needed to be lower and Karamo a tad higher.  6 would have been fine.

That said I don't mind mostly because Carrie Anne and Bruno went overboard the other direction and ignored that he was kind of a technical mess in this routine.

The thing about Karamo is he is an enjoyable performer on the dance floor and has a nice presence and ease and so he's fun to watch.  But that routine had far more issues technically than just lack of body contact.  Even I could see his frame was a mess and all over the place and there was some weird footwork at points.  I give him that the quickstep is really hard for week 2 and I think he did a nice job but I was as taken aback that CA and Bruno were acting like there was nothing technically wrong besides some missed body contact.  So Len balancing them out by actually giving valid critiques was fine.  The scoring wasn't necessarily.

Like to me Hannah & James are probably the top tier of dancers and then Karamo, Ally, Sailor, Lauren, Kel and maybe others I'm forgetting are still mushed together trying to see which ones will elevate and separate themselves from the pack and which ones won't.  Kate is a wild card because I think she was one of the best last night but I don't know if that was a fluke or if she's in that pack too.  Karamo and Kel both have the potential to I think elevate into that higher group but aren't quite there yet.

Edited September 24, 2019 by spanana

[OnTime]

Why are the judges deciding who goes home??

The viewers are voting for a reason, but now it doesn't count??

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, OnTime said:

Why are the judges deciding who goes home??

The viewers are voting for a reason, but now it doesn't count??

Well, because of what happened last season, they seem to think that giving the judges the deciding vote on the bottom two will help things.

Except, the issue is still going to be a certain celeb's fanbase voting in spades for their celeb. Sure, it's more contained with the voting being during the live show...but fanbases are always going to find a way. 

So it kind of helped the issue, but not enough. If this was last season, Bobby would STILL be in the finale, since he was never in the bottom two. So...they're trying, but we'll have to see if it ends up working out (so far, it doesn't look like it). 

[katha]

Wow, I mean Sailor's rhumba was okay, but not great. As rhumbas in week two tend to be...IMO much too early to assign that dance. Mostly it will just end up awkward. But boy, did the band sabotage her. That was a horrific rendition of the song. There was absolutely no way to make that performance work with the butcher's job that they were commiting, music is an important component of the dances. 🥴

James was good, not as good as last week, but entertaining. And yeah, even if he's wobbly in technique or stuff, he is just gonna sell the performances and it will carry him. Hannah was very good. Kamaro was a mess technically, but fun! 😎

Kate was adorable. And Pasha is a real find for them, it seems. He taught her the technique. He gave her great choreo. And I thought the space alien framework was really funny. Yeah, it's not what the song is really about. Pasha knows it's not what the song is really about. But taking it literally made for a really fun set-up for the dance IMO. And it was very memorable! 🙂

[Toonces464]

2 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

I've often wondered this. And why do they care so much??

Again, it's the kids who the pros spent time tweeting with when they were so desperately trying to make pro.

[Annber03]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad that Prince's music can be used so easily now that he's dead. On the one hand, yay for hearing one of his songs! On the other hand, if he were alive he would have said no.

I was thinking the exact same thing. 

12 hours ago, Bridget said:

“Shut Up and Dance” by Walk the Moon is a great song in general, but is it wrong that I hope Lindsay was throwing shade at her partner with the song choice? It also didn’t get mentioned in the intro package, which was smart on someone’s end.

Can you imagine the crap that would have ended up on Twitter had she mentioned the title on camera?

She told him to shut up! For no reason! It’s because he goes to Church! 

I hadn't even considered that that could've been a subtle message to him! That'd be kinda funny if it was :p. 

[crowceilidh]

Quote

And Pasha is a real find for them, it seems. He taught her the technique. He gave her great choreo. And I thought the space alien framework was really funny. Yeah, it's not what the song is really about. Pasha knows it's not what the song is really about. But taking it literally made for a really fun set-up for the dance IMO. And it was very memorable!

I thought it was funny to set it up like it was a sixties or early seventies "modern futuristic" dance routine.  That kind of futuristic nonsense that the late sixties/early seventies variety shows often did.  Maybe that futuristic allusion wasn't there, but that's what I was thinking about the "spacemen" dancers.  Might have been better to put them in go-go cages at the same time.

[calipiano81]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

If this was last season, Bobby would STILL be in the finale, since he was never in the bottom two. So...they're trying, but we'll have to see if it ends up working out (so far, it doesn't look like it). 

Actually, we don't know that Bobby was never in the bottom 2, because the whole season, they always only said "in jeopardy." The fact that they are implementing this judges' save could be an indicator that Bobby at times was the second-to-bottom contestant and could have been gone earlier if they had this format.

Edited September 24, 2019 by calipiano81

[calipiano81]

As a former power voter, I'd like to say that power voting doesn't only happen for the mediocre dancers.  Some of us power vote for the good dancers too.

For those of you wondering about the motivations behind power voting, the best explanation I can come up with is...

There are so many things in life that are out of our control, that when you feel like you can influence the outcome of something to your liking, some of us get way more invested than normal. For me and DWTS, it started with Season 8, when Shawn&Mark won over Gilles&Cheryl with less than 1% of the final vote. Because I power voted for Team Shark, I felt like I contributed to that less-than-1% and had a hand in their win. Even though I never got my desired winner again after that season, that one instance of success kept me power voting for my favorites.

Also, our choices in life are a reflection of ourselves. Who we vote for says something about us. So pushing for our favorite to win sometimes becomes a form of self-validation or self- justification. Those feelings are stronger for some than for others.

As to why we do all this for "just a TV show"...I think it's probably because real life doesn't allow us to indulge in these human irrationalities without major consequences.

Finally, power voting does not necessarily have to be that time-consuming. The hundreds and thousands of email addresses can be accumulated over time (for this show, over 28 seasons), not necessarily created in one sitting. And if you have a fast internet connection, it might only take 1-2 hours to cast about a thousand votes, which you could do while watching the show.

Edited September 24, 2019 by calipiano81

[sd dude]

I'm sorry that Lamar was not the first contestant eliminated.  I'm sorry for Lamar, I'm sorry for Mary, and most of all I'm sorry for myself and all other viewers who now need to watch him stomp around like Herman Munster for at least one more week.  He was unquestionably the worst dancer.  Yes, even worse than Spicer.  And Lamar looks soooo unhappy and soooo uncomfortable, sending him home would have been a mercy killing.

I'm officially not upset that Sean Spicer is on DWTS.  I'm not a fan and he is not a good dancer, but he is infamous if not famous, and I don't think anything that's occurred with him over the past 2-3 years disqualifies him from being on the show.  His attitude on the air seems perfectly reasonable.  I hated his "campaign" intro, but of course he didn't come up with that, anymore than any of the other contestants come up with their own intros/promos.

I think the judges save is a worthwhile experiment.  It can't guarantee that the worst dancer goes home, as last night proves (neither Lamar nor Sean were in the bottom two), but it at least helps them ensure that the better couple out of the bottom two gets another opportunity to dance, which in theory should make for a more entertaining or competitive next episode, then if the worse couple of the bottom two moves on. It's incremental improvement, but it could prove to be an improvement.  I was glad that Len chose to save Ray/Cheryl over Mary/Brandon, and don't know what Carrie Ann was thinking choosing the opposite (but when do we ever understand what Carrie Ann is thinking).  Neither of them is dancing very well, and Mary was definitely a more likeable contestant than Ray, but that is exactly the issue the judges vote is supposed to hopefully counter - the popularity vote.  I think based on Mary's age and her first two performances, her potential for improvement was poor and less than Ray's.  (I also would be less than rigorously honest if I didn't admit I would rather see Cheryl dancing on my screen for a few more weeks as opposed to Brandon, but that would be demonstrating my own hypocrisy. . .at any rate, it doesn't invalidate my prior analysis.)

Finally, what is with not using the pros' last names when introducing the dance.  It sounds so awkward, I'm thinking this may be the first season this has ever happened.   Who thought of this groundbreaking switch in production?  How many more seasons will we have now that the pros only have first names?  I mean, what's the difference, really?  What's the intent of making such a silly and trivial (yet annoying) change?

[Kira53]

7 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

Doesn't Len nearly always have someone he picks on fairly unreasonably?  I find it remarkable how often the person he picks on makes me raise my eyebrows at Len.  This instance, too.

The story arc is that that person finally wins Len over!

[crowceilidh]

Quote

The story arc is that that person finally wins Len over!

I agree.  I feel like the story arc hasn't always come out that way though.  I don't know who I'm thinking of, but I feel that a couple of times, the people Len is picking on haven't actually made it far enough to get that arc.????  I mean, obvs, they nearly always pick someone they think can make it to top4, but it just seems to me that he hasn't been right.

Edited September 25, 2019 by crowceilidh

[spanana]

I forgot my other jaw dropping moment from the last episode. Brandon barely knowing who Aretha Franklin is and didn't know the song Think.  I know he's young and from Utah but what?  How are you a dancer and don't know classic songs?  I know you don't generally dance ballroom to it but he grew up dancing other genres too.

[Kira53]

1 hour ago, crowceilidh said:

I agree.  I feel like the story arc hasn't always come out that way though.  I don't know who I'm thinking of, but I feel that a couple of times, the people Len is picking on haven't actually made it far enough to get that arc.????  I mean, obvs, they nearly always pick someone they think can make it to top4, but it just seems to me that he hasn't been right.

Sometimes Lens overly severe criticms  sinks the dancer.  It reduces support.  The bottom 2.  Of course CarrieAnn and Bruno were told  to create a tie breaker situation but Mary was slated to go home.  Who did Brandon piss off?  

[marykat71702]

Once again, late to the party(as I always will be because I watch on delay), here are my thoughts on tonights episode...

First off, what was up with the opening segment? It was stupid.

Now, on to the dances...

James/Emma-I really like James. His enthusiasm and energy is infectious, fun to watch, and he makes me smile.  I enjoyed this dance.  Also, his flexibility is impressive.

Sailor/Val-Technically, it looked ok, but IMO it lacked feeling.

Ray/Cheryl-Clunky and weird. I don't think he will last very long, and no, Carrie Ann, he was not fun to watch.

Ally/Sasha-I don't know what to say about this one, it was kind of meh. Scores were too high <shrug>.

Mary/Brandon-She missed some steps and there didn't seem to be a whole lot of energy, but she is 75, so...

Lauren/Gleb-Again, meh. I want dances that make me feel something, and this one didn't.

Sean/Lindsay-Definite improvement over last week, but still kind of "steppy" instead of "flowy".

Karamo/Jenna-Not bad. Lost body contact in places, but overall it was good.

Kate/Pasha-I liked this one. I am liking Pasha as a pro so far, he seems to be a really good teacher.  Kate may be a dark horse.

Kel/Witney-Other than that weird move at the end, I thought it was good.

Lamar/Peta-While he seemed to be more relaxed and having more fun tonight, it still wasn't very good.

Disclaimer-I write my comments down before I listen to the judge's comments 😂

Hannah/Alan-As much as she annoys me(not sure why, as I don't watch/follow the Bachelor/ette stuff, so don't really know anything about her), this dance was nice. Thank you, Alan, for having better hand placement during the comments.

I'm not sure I agree with Len on who he picked to save, but whatever. Ray won't last very long.

[Yeah No]

12 hours ago, sd dude said:

I think based on Mary's age and her first two performances, her potential for improvement was poor and less than Ray's.  (I also would be less than rigorously honest if I didn't admit I would rather see Cheryl dancing on my screen for a few more weeks as opposed to Brandon, but that would be demonstrating my own hypocrisy. . .at any rate, it doesn't invalidate my prior analysis.)

I was all set to love your post and then I read this.  Why should Mary's age have anything to do with her elimination?  That would be age discrimination.  We don't really know what her potential for improvement would be next to Ray's and IMO it would be unfair to assume that purely based on her age after two weeks.  There have been some older stars on this show that have shown some amazing improvement over the weeks.  I for certain think she had more potential for improvement than someone like Lamar, for example, and it has nothing to do with age.

Now I know why I have basically been forced into an early retirement at age 61 after being wrongfully terminated after breaking my arm at work (yes there was a lawsuit).  This kind of rationale is far more common than people think or care about.  Put us all out on the ice floe.....😏

Edited September 25, 2019 by Yeah No

[ShaNaeNae]

On 9/23/2019 at 11:20 PM, crowceilidh said:

I like the way the show announced that they recognize how young Sailor is and they will not be showmancing her and Val.  Good to know. 

Well, that and he's married now. 

On 9/24/2019 at 2:24 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Kel's Bobby Brown samba was fun. He's not a ringer but he has a lot of natural dance ability and he's clearly having so much fun. Witney has been dancing long enough that she should know better than to mouth the words when she's performing.

That's one thing I see often and don't get.  I remember in dance when I was young, they told us to never mouth the words to the song.  And I've seen so many dancers do it.  Lacey used to do it a lot too. 

Ally does seem overdramatic.  The whole bit of being "bullied online for dancing so watch me do this VW and I'll cry after" had me eyerolling hard.  

[vdw84]

12 hours ago, spanana said:

I forgot my other jaw dropping moment from the last episode. Brandon barely knowing who Aretha Franklin is and didn't know the song Think.  I know he's young and from Utah but what?  How are you a dancer and don't know classic songs?  I know you don't generally dance ballroom to it but he grew up dancing other genres too.

Im not trying to make this racist at all but Brandon was adopted into an all white family from Utah and tho he is in dance business and should be familiar with different genres and artists and I can totally see how his upbringing may be subjected to him not knowing Aretha Franklin. I remember last season when he was partnered with Tinashe, she was calling out different urban artists on her instalive and Brandon had no clue who they were and they were young and popping.

[vdw84]

21 minutes ago, ShaNaeNae said:

Well, that and he's married now. 

That's one thing I see often and don't get.  I remember in dance when I was young, they told us to never mouth the words to the song.  And I've seen so many dancers do it.  Lacey used to do it a lot too. 

Ally does seem overdramatic.  The whole bit of being "bullied online for dancing so watch me do this VW and I'll cry after" had me eyerolling hard.  

I get sense that Sasha really isnt feeling this partnership, which is very weird because Sasha always connect to his partners but I feel a distance. When I watch their bts interviews he just seems distanced from her, its almost like he is annoyed with her. Maybe im reading too much into it but I just dont feel a genuine chemistry with them that I was expecting them to have.

[Just Carol]

21 minutes ago, vdw84 said:

I get sense that Sasha really isnt feeling this partnership, which is very weird because Sasha always connect to his partners but I feel a distance. When I watch their bts interviews he just seems distanced from her, its almost like he is annoyed with her. Maybe im reading too much into it but I just dont feel a genuine chemistry with them that I was expecting them to have.

She sure annoys me.  Someone please take her to a library or hospital ward and see how long she can keep quiet.  

[vdw84]

Just now, Just Carol said:

She sure annoys me.  Someone please take her to a library or hospital ward and see how long she can keep quiet.  

She is so frantic when she talk, I just want her to slow down and calm down and explain herself. I think she is wanting to prove the haters wrong so badly that is interfering with her just relaxing and enjoying the experience first and foremost. I do like Ally but she needs to just relax and not worry about proving anything to anyone but herself.

[vdw84]

On 9/24/2019 at 10:32 AM, boyznkatz said:

I think this is Hannah's to lose. She's got it all...dance ability, personality, big fanbase.

Hannah is def. going to the finale with fanbase alone but still not sold on her as the it dancer of the season. I still think uptempo dances r going to do her in. Her first week cha cha cha was a mess but it was the first week and nerves set in but she even admitted that we was more comfortable this week. She is so pagneatlike and smiley that I just cant see her pulling sassy salsa or fierce paso doble but maybe she will surprise me but she isnt a fav of mine. I just cant stand the bachelor franchise and anything associated with it.

[spanana]

6 minutes ago, vdw84 said:

Hannah is def. going to the finale with fanbase alone but still not sold on her as the it dancer of the season. I still think uptempo dances r going to do her in. Her first week cha cha cha was a mess but it was the first week and nerves set in but she even admitted that we was more comfortable this week. She is so pagneatlike and smiley that I just cant see her pulling sassy salsa or fierce paso doble but maybe she will surprise me but she isnt a fav of mine. I just cant stand the bachelor franchise and anything associated with it.

Right now Hannah and James seem like finalists to me unless something severe happens.  Hannah has the fan base plus ability and James has the nostalgia and likeability but ability so far (unless he does something dumb).  Plus likable pros.

I don't have an obvious solid winner in my head but I think the show would be very happy to push a Hannah win also because we haven't had a female winner in awhile.  I think since Laurie?

Everyone else is a wildcard for me in terms of votes and I think some celebs that could be contenders even if just on personality and fanbase may be hindered by their pros (see Lauren and Karamo) though IMO Gleb is a bigger hindrance than Jenna.  Gleb can't choreograph or teach for anything. 

I don't know how long the announcing the real B2 while the judges decide who leaves is going to last but the one thing it will do is give us a better sense of who isn't getting votes.

Edited September 25, 2019 by spanana

[Toonces464]

47 minutes ago, vdw84 said:

Im not trying to make this racist at all but Brandon was adopted into an all white family from Utah and tho he is in dance business and should be familiar with different genres and artists and I can totally see how his upbringing may be subjected to him not knowing Aretha Franklin. 

I'm from an all white family from New York and all of us know who Aretha Franklin is.

[spanana]

4 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

I'm from an all white family from New York and all of us know who Aretha Franklin is.

But wasn't Brandon also raised Mormon?  In Utah?

[vdw84]

1 hour ago, ShaNaeNae said:

Well, that and he's married now. 

That's one thing I see often and don't get.  I remember in dance when I was young, they told us to never mouth the words to the song.  And I've seen so many dancers do it.  Lacey used to do it a lot too. 

Ally does seem overdramatic.  The whole bit of being "bullied online for dancing so watch me do this VW and I'll cry after" had me eyerolling hard.  

Not only was Ally bullied for her dancing but her body as well, all the girls were bullied for that. They were never the most inshape girl group and criticized greatly for it. Normani was pro. the only one who was inshape but even she was called fat because she was thick with hers but she was inshape like Serena Williams inshape while she was in Fifth Harmony and then she lost all that weight when she came on dwts.

4 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

I'm from an all white family from New York and all of us know who Aretha Franklin is.

New York and Utah r on two diffferent playing fields, LOL. I know its alot of white people know all about Aretha Franklin, I Just think with Brandon may not have be accustomed to that with the family he had.

[boyznkatz]

38 minutes ago, vdw84 said:

I just cant stand the bachelor franchise and anything associated with it.

Ditto here, but I do like Hannah. I don't watch those shows, so I have no idea how she was on it, but she seems pleasant enough on dwts and she, Kel, Karamo and James are really the only ones who have interested me with their dancing. Everyone else is pretty meh to me. 

[ljenkins782]

17 hours ago, sd dude said:

I'm sorry that Lamar was not the first contestant eliminated.  I'm sorry for Lamar, I'm sorry for Mary, and most of all I'm sorry for myself and all other viewers who now need to watch him stomp around like Herman Munster for at least one more week.  He was unquestionably the worst dancer.  Yes, even worse than Spicer.  And Lamar looks soooo unhappy and soooo uncomfortable, sending him home would have been a mercy killing.

Same. Watching him try not to cry after the judging and scores is painful to watch and I don't see much room for improvement. When someone's a bad dancer, I find it easier to take when they've got an outgoing personality and a sense of humor about their limitations. He just seems like he WANTS to do well, but probably never will, and is so reserved and sensitive that it makes it hard to watch.

Quote

I was all set to love your post and then I read this.  Why should Mary's age have anything to do with her elimination?  That would be age discrimination.  We don't really know what her potential for improvement would be next to Ray's and IMO it would be unfair to assume that purely based on her age after two weeks.  There have been some older stars on this show that have shown some amazing improvement over the weeks.  I for certain think she had more potential for improvement than someone like Lamar, for example, and it has nothing to do with age.

Now I know why I have basically been forced into an early retirement at age 61 after being wrongfully terminated after breaking my arm at work (yes there was a lawsuit).  This kind of rationale is far more common than people think or care about.  Put us all out on the ice floe.....😏

There's an extremely physical component to dancing and the rehearsal schedules of this show, so yes, age does play a role here. She's in amazing shape for being 75 years old, but it's never going to be a level playing field with some of the younger contestants. She did her best to sell the personality of the dances, but there wasn't a lot of actual dancing/steps involved.

That being said, I thought she might last a little longer. Lamar absolutely deserved to be the first boot and there were a few others that I thought might have been on the bubble as well, but no dice. Once it came down to her and Ray, I figured it'd be her since this show seems to have a thing for former football players.

Quote

Who did Brandon piss off?  

Brandon is due for a ringer at some point. He was amazing as a mentor on DWTS Juniors (where I was stunned to discover that I also liked Alan, who I could never stand on this show) and I'm sure he could go far if they'd give him a real contender (and one that people had heard of, I forget the name of his last partner, but I know I hadn't heard of her). 

I'm just waiting for the inevitable fake showmance between Alan and Hannah, there's no way they'll have a single Bachelorette with a single pro (he is, right) and not try to take it there. 

[inandout]

2 hours ago, spanana said:

Right now Hannah and James seem like finalists to me unless something severe happens.  Hannah has the fan base plus ability and James has the nostalgia and likeability but ability so far (unless he does something dumb).  Plus likable pros.

I don't have an obvious solid winner in my head but I think the show would be very happy to push a Hannah win also because we haven't had a female winner in awhile.  I think since Laurie?

I actually think the show would be happy with a James win.  It will attract more legit names to the show.  I would not under estimate his fan base.  He is more than just Dawson.  His show Pose is very popular.  He was just at The Emmys and he is very well known by the mainstream media.

I think Hannah can be polarizing - there is the Bachelor stigma.  Bachelor Nation doesn't have the greatest success on DWTS.  Melissa Rycroft won on her 2nd try - but it help that Tony Dovolani was seen as overdue.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I think Len's feedback was fine.  The 5 wasn't justified and he shouldn't have gotten the same score as Sean from Len.  So Sean needed to be lower and Karamo a tad higher.  6 would have been fine.

I wouldn't mind Len's feedback and criticisms - or even crankyness - if he was consistent about it. But two weeks in a row he got pissy about Karamo's routine then smiled and flattered Ray. There are celebrities he clearly glad-handles when handing out criticism and then there are those he doesn't feel any need to coddle. I don't know what's going on there, it's as though he's instructed to be careful with certain celebs for whatever reason.

[calipiano81]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

Brandon is due for a ringer at some point. He was amazing as a mentor on DWTS Juniors (where I was stunned to discover that I also liked Alan, who I could never stand on this show) and I'm sure he could go far if they'd give him a real contender (and one that people had heard of, I forget the name of his last partner, but I know I hadn't heard of her).  

This is only Brandon's second season as a pro and he already got a "ringer" on his very first season -- Tinashe. 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

There's an extremely physical component to dancing and the rehearsal schedules of this show, so yes, age does play a role here. She's in amazing shape for being 75 years old, but it's never going to be a level playing field with some of the younger contestants. She did her best to sell the personality of the dances, but there wasn't a lot of actual dancing/steps involved.

Mary's abilities should be judged based on her performance, not on whether or not her age might allow her to be on a level playing field with anyone else in ANY arena, including this one.  That shouldn't be a consideration at all.  She should not be subject to assumptions about whether her age will make her a better or worse dancer than her opponent.  It would be just as bad to assume that without any other criteria, a black person will automatically be better at football or basketball, so being white should be a disadvantage when applying for a position.  Or as bad as being denied a loan because you're 70 and the bank thinks you might not live to pay it off.  People should be judged based on their performance and qualifications.  Any other considerations are a result of prejudice.  I don't think Len sent her home because he assumed things about her future performance because of her age.  I think he saw her ability as being on a lower level than the man.  I can accept that, but I will not stand for what I see as age prejudice.

[boyznkatz]

TBH I thought Mary moved better than Ray. If Len was going to kick one of them out based on dance ability, he should have picked Mary to stay. She wasn't the best dancer, but she wasn't the worst, either.

At least Mary attempted to do some steps. Ray just shuffled around while Cheryl made him look better than he was.

[Yeah No]

Just now, boyznkatz said:

TBH I thought Mary moved better than Ray. If Len was going to kick one of them out based on dance ability, he should have picked Mary to stay. She wasn't the best dancer, but she wasn't the worst, either.

At least Mary attempted to do some steps. Ray just shuffled around while Cheryl made him look better than he was.

I often don't agree with Len but I do think he tries to be what he thinks is fair.  I think if he went with his heart he would have saved Mary but he saw something in Ray that she didn't have.  Maybe he thinks Cheryl can whip him into shape, who knows?

[spanana]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I wouldn't mind Len's feedback and criticisms - or even crankyness - if he was consistent about it. But two weeks in a row he got pissy about Karamo's routine then smiled and flattered Ray. There are celebrities he clearly glad-handles when handing out criticism and then there are those he doesn't feel any need to coddle. I don't know what's going on there, it's as though he's instructed to be careful with certain celebs for whatever reason.

The part of the feedback I'm on board with Len laying off is the stupid stuff like complaining about outfits or shoes unless they are going against the dance or if someone isn't wearing appropriate shoes for ballroom.  I thought that part was dumb.

But I don't know...I feel like the show tends to handle a lot of celebs that can't dance with kid gloves, especially in the early weeks, or particularly the ones that seem like they would be obvious early boots and are maybe a little older.  At least in terms of the comments.  If Len isn't giving Ray much feedback from a standpoint of he's a crap dancer and Len expects he will be gone by W3 and it's not worth berating him for things he's not going to improve on, that is fine.  The issue for me is that they need to be scored comparably.

Like I don't have an issue with Len being harder on Karamo because Karamo has the capability and less so with Ray as long as the comments come with Len giving Karamo higher scores than Ray.  Treat Ray with kid gloves but then give him the score he deserves.  They shouldn't be getting the same score (and I don't remember what score Len gave Ray).

[spanana]

2 hours ago, tealeaves said:

I think Hannah can be polarizing - there is the Bachelor stigma.  Bachelor Nation doesn't have the greatest success on DWTS.  Melissa Rycroft won on her 2nd try - but it help that Tony Dovolani was seen as overdue.

Bachelor people always get far whether they deserve to or not but we haven't had enough Bachelorette people to really have a pattern.  The only Bachelorettes we've had were Trista Sutter in the 1st season and now Hannah.  Melissa was from the franchise and was on the Bachelor.  I know it's all the same franchise but at the very least we know that the franchise people often go further than deserved (in the case of many of the men).  Also from what I can tell, Hannah was a particularly popular Bachelorette with a certain segment of the audience.

As for what others have said, I think the show would be 100% fine with either a Hannah or James win for different reasons.  We haven't had a women win since S23 in 2016 so I'm sure the show would be happy to end that drought before it becomes a topic of watercooler conversation again.  Whereas James is a bigger name and could maybe get them some legitimacy.  The show isn't going to be mad at either scenario.

[AuntieDiane6]

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 I hated his "campaign" intro, but of course he didn't come up with that, anymore than any of the other contestants come up with their own intros/promos.

I hated that he made the sweeping claim that if he lost, it would be BECAUSE HE WAS CHRISTIAN.  What an awful thing to say.  Who knew that turd's religion or if he even had one?  He's a lousy dancer and a worse liar.  And an attention whore who shopped around his own talk show and got NO INTEREST AT ALL.

[ljenkins782]

6 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

This is only Brandon's second season as a pro and he already got a "ringer" on his very first season -- Tinashe. 

She was an unknown though. I watched that whole season and I still don't know who she is. Part of the package is the name recognition along with ability, it's always going to help to have a built-in voting base of people who already know the celeb.

Quote

Mary's abilities should be judged based on her performance, not on whether or not her age might allow her to be on a level playing field with anyone else in ANY arena, including this one.  That shouldn't be a consideration at all.  She should not be subject to assumptions about whether her age will make her a better or worse dancer than her opponent.  It would be just as bad to assume that without any other criteria, a black person will automatically be better at football or basketball, so being white should be a disadvantage when applying for a position.  Or as bad as being denied a loan because you're 70 and the bank thinks you might not live to pay it off.  People should be judged based on their performance and qualifications.  Any other considerations are a result of prejudice.  I don't think Len sent her home because he assumed things about her future performance because of her age.  I think he saw her ability as being on a lower level than the man.  I can accept that, but I will not stand for what I see as age prejudice.

Except she didn't have a lot of ability and in this case, part of her ability IS tied to age. That's just a fact and it's not "age prejudice" to point out there are physical limitations that come with aging. Take a dance like a jive that's extremely physical, with jumping and kicks and flicks. Of course Mary is going to struggle with that more than some of the younger contestants and it does put an automatic limitation on her.

Of course I think Lamar was worse, but he survived due to fan votes. Between Mary and Ray, I can understand why Ray stayed. 

[Sile]

On 9/24/2019 at 6:07 PM, sd dude said:

Finally, what is with not using the pros' last names when introducing the dance.  It sounds so awkward, I'm thinking this may be the first season this has ever happened.   Who thought of this groundbreaking switch in production?  How many more seasons will we have now that the pros only have first names?  I mean, what's the difference, really?  What's the intent of making such a silly and trivial (yet annoying) change?

I pointed that out in the first episode's thread.  I also noticed that Karamo is also going the one name route.  What, they think somebody is going to get the Browns mixed up?

It's like the writers for the Tudors rolling Henry's two sisters Mary and Margaret into one named Margaret, because they thought that it would confuse the audience, who wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two women named Mary.  Our tiny brains can't handle it!!

Tiny they may be, but I think our brains can differentiate between Karamo Brown and Hannah Brown.

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Except she didn't have a lot of ability and in this case, part of her ability IS tied to age. That's just a fact and it's not "age prejudice" to point out there are physical limitations that come with aging. Take a dance like a jive that's extremely physical, with jumping and kicks and flicks. Of course Mary is going to struggle with that more than some of the younger contestants and it does put an automatic limitation on her.

A lot of things that are "facts" or based on statistics would still be considered prejudice if used as a rationale for denying a person a position.  Say for example that studies were to show that beyond a doubt in general, men are better than women at something like math or science and those studies were used as a reason to cast aside the applications of women for positions in those fields just based on those studies and not on the ability or performance of the women applying in those areas.  It's the same thing and would still be prejudice. 

I don't assume that Mary's lack of dancing ability necessarily stems from her age.   There have been other older dancers on this show that have been much better than her over the years.  And even though some of the older contestants have been given more "forgiving" routines, they were judged on the quality of their dancing in those routines, not penalized for not doing routines that have a lot of jumping and kicks.  I have seen much younger people go to the finale just shuffling across the dance floor doing relatively easy routines and getting pretty good scores in spite of it.  It's not always about age.  So I am still not on board with that rationale, sorry.

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

A lot of things that are "facts" or based on statistics would still be considered prejudice if used as a rationale for denying a person a position.  Say for example that studies were to show that beyond a doubt in general, men are better than women at something like math or science and those studies were used as a reason to cast aside the applications of women for positions in those fields just based on those studies and not on the ability or performance of the women applying in those areas.  It's the same thing and would still be prejudice. 

I don't assume that Mary's lack of dancing ability necessarily stems from her age.   There have been other older dancers on this show that have been much better than her over the years.  And even though some of the older contestants have been given more "forgiving" routines, they were judged on the quality of their dancing in those routines, not penalized for not doing routines that have a lot of jumping and kicks.  I have seen much younger people go to the finale just shuffling across the dance floor doing relatively easy routines and getting pretty good scores in spite of it.  It's not always about age.  So I am still not on board with that rationale, sorry.

Position on DWTS is not a protected class, so I'm not on board with your rationale either. There will be no age discrimination suits coming out of early exits from DWTS. 

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Position on DWTS is not a protected class, so I'm not on board with your rationale either. There will be no age discrimination suits coming out of early exits from DWTS. 

The ageism isn't something I saw on DWTS, but here on this board.  I have already said I think Len eliminated Mary for other reasons.  I was responding to comments here that I believe exhibited ageism because they said they thought she deserved to go based on her age and assumptions they made about her ability to improve over the weeks because of that.  People don't even know or agree that they're engaging in ageism.    And then they get nasty about it when it's pointed out to them.  I don't understand that.  I was taught to respect my elders.   I'm supposed to "get woke" about prejudice against other groups but no one thinks they need to "get woke" about this. Older people are just supposed to shut up and accept the often unfair presumptions people make about them that are often used to justify disqualifying them or terminating them.  Well I won't accept that and I won't keep my mouth shut about it either.  I didn't keep my mouth shut in my own life and my bank account is all the fatter for it.  What I say is just wait until it's they're turn to be older and somebody makes a presumption about their ability based purely on their age that leads to them suffering financially and not being able to find a job.  Then they'll sing a different tune.  What goes around comes around as they used to say.....

Edited September 26, 2019 by Yeah No