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S06.E13: Season Finale

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Caelynn is one of the most manipulative creatures ever on this show. Stop crying for camera time. What a perpetual victim.

I am firmly in Blake's corner. He took the lumps he deserved, but he doesn't have to let Caelynn lie about him. She forced him to release those texts by lying about him. She owes him the apology. 

She deserves the likes of Dean.

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Well, what can I say about Dean.  I initially couldn’t stand him in other seasons, but damn if I didn’t grow to like him this year.  As far as looks go, I never found him particularly attractive.  I will say he had beautiful eyes and a great smile, but putting his facial features together, along with his hair (whoever said Oompa-Loompa was square on) resulted in something ill proportioned.  I wouldn’t go so far as to call him ugly, but I did find him odd looking. 

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Dean better be careful. If he breaks up with Caelynn, he might face the same defamation that Blake went through. Caelynn is an expert at playing the victim. When she started crying at the reunion show because Blake exposed her lies, Blake should have started crying too and acted pitiful. But he is just not crafty enough to go head to head with her. 

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25 minutes ago, waving feather said:

Dean better be careful. If he breaks up with Caelynn, he might face the same defamation that Blake went through. Caelynn is an expert at playing the victim. When she started crying at the reunion show because Blake exposed her lies, Blake should have started crying too and acted pitiful. But he is just not crafty enough to go head to head with her. 

Seriously. Now I finally understand Hannah B’s perception of Caelynn. I always thought Hannah came off as the instigator and was shocked that they made her Bachelorette, but now I do believe that Caelynn “turned” on her. But Caelynn has us convinced Hannah was just jealous.

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I made an account just to comment on this. I really enjoy reading these forums but sometimes people on here think they know everything. Why is everyone being so harsh on Katie? You have no idea what their relationship is like on a day to day basis. You're basing everything off 15 minutes of television. I'm guessing none of you must know what it's like to be in a relationship where you feel unloved and unwanted. You're very lucky for that.

First of all, this is a TV show about relationships and they've been candidly talking about their feelings to the cameras since they started dating. Chris must have known she was going to be talked to, and they've had this conversation dozens of times with no change. Unless he specifically asked her to not air their problems out, he couldn't have possibly been blind-sided by this. The fact that he was shows how oblivious he is to her pain/how much he doesn't take it seriously. Or I guess he just expected her to lie? He was more focused on looking like a crappy boyfriend than the fact that he's being so crappy she felt the need to do this.

Imagine day in and day out that your supposed fiance barely shows you how much he cares despite how much you try. Imagine not feeling loved by your partner at all. And then to watch back on a month when you thought you were falling in love and you got ENGAGED only to see the person doesn't seem at all that into you. This is supposed to be your love story, and it sucks.

Katie needs to realize her worth and just end it. Either that, or Chris needs to be honest and tell her explicitly that he doesn't want this and to stop making her think that it's possible. Katie, you can't fix him. Please wake up and walk away.

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29 minutes ago, Jushi said:

I made an account just to comment on this. I really enjoy reading these forums but sometimes people on here think they know everything. Why is everyone being so harsh on Katie? You have no idea what their relationship is like on a day to day basis. You're basing everything off 15 minutes of television. I'm guessing none of you must know what it's like to be in a relationship where you feel unloved and unwanted. You're very lucky for that.

First of all, this is a TV show about relationships and they've been candidly talking about their feelings to the cameras since they started dating. Chris must have known she was going to be talked to, and they've had this conversation dozens of times with no change. Unless he specifically asked her to not air their problems out, he couldn't have possibly been blind-sided by this. The fact that he was shows how oblivious he is to her pain/how much he doesn't take it seriously. Or I guess he just expected her to lie? He was more focused on looking like a crappy boyfriend than the fact that he's being so crappy she felt the need to do this.

Imagine day in and day out that your supposed fiance barely shows you how much he cares despite how much you try. Imagine not feeling loved by your partner at all. And then to watch back on a month when you thought you were falling in love and you got ENGAGED only to see the person doesn't seem at all that into you. This is supposed to be your love story, and it sucks.

Katie needs to realize her worth and just end it. Either that, or Chris needs to be honest and tell her explicitly that he doesn't want this and to stop making her think that it's possible. Katie, you can't fix him. Please wake up and walk away.

I think you reap what you sow when you agree to get engaged after a few days of knowing each other. These people are more wrapped up in the TV love story and being the next Jade and Tanner than they are serious about turning the engagement into an actual marriage. I know Katie has actual feelings for Chris, and you're right.. it does suck to be in a relationship where you are putting in effort and the other person puts none in... but that's why you should get to know someone before rushing into an engagement. They all say, "this isn't just a tv show, this is my life."... Well, that's not true. If this were real life, you wouldn't be forced to either get engaged or break up. You would date and get to know someone in every day life, not just lying around on a beach where there is no stress and everything is swimming and laying on day beds. Katie doesn't know Chris. She knows what he's like when cameras are following him on a beach all day and night.

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18 hours ago, zoltana said:

How is he supposed to act with someone he's known a couple of weeks on the beach in an over produced television show?  It didn't seem like he was into her the whole time.  I don't know what his insecurities are, but she sure seems to be ignoring them and making it all about her. 

But let's be honest about Chris:  This was his sixth time on a Bachelor franchise show - six times! - and he has been unable to hook up with anyone?  Forget the off-show events like Stagecoach and all that, which I'm sure he's also been invited to.

Six times and he can't seem to find anyone to be with?  There's something suspect about this.

ETA:  Jordan is past his sell-by date.  He brings nothing to the table.  Off to the desert with you, son.

Edited by b2H
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1 hour ago, Jushi said:

I made an account just to comment on this. I really enjoy reading these forums but sometimes people on here think they know everything. Why is everyone being so harsh on Katie? You have no idea what their relationship is like on a day to day basis. You're basing everything off 15 minutes of television. I'm guessing none of you must know what it's like to be in a relationship where you feel unloved and unwanted. You're very lucky for that.

First of all, this is a TV show about relationships and they've been candidly talking about their feelings to the cameras since they started dating. Chris must have known she was going to be talked to, and they've had this conversation dozens of times with no change. Unless he specifically asked her to not air their problems out, he couldn't have possibly been blind-sided by this. The fact that he was shows how oblivious he is to her pain/how much he doesn't take it seriously. Or I guess he just expected her to lie? He was more focused on looking like a crappy boyfriend than the fact that he's being so crappy she felt the need to do this.

Imagine day in and day out that your supposed fiance barely shows you how much he cares despite how much you try. Imagine not feeling loved by your partner at all. And then to watch back on a month when you thought you were falling in love and you got ENGAGED only to see the person doesn't seem at all that into you. This is supposed to be your love story, and it sucks.

Katie needs to realize her worth and just end it. Either that, or Chris needs to be honest and tell her explicitly that he doesn't want this and to stop making her think that it's possible. Katie, you can't fix him. Please wake up and walk away.

39 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I think you reap what you sow when you agree to get engaged after a few days of knowing each other. These people are more wrapped up in the TV love story and being the next Jade and Tanner than they are serious about turning the engagement into an actual marriage. I know Katie has actual feelings for Chris, and you're right.. it does suck to be in a relationship where you are putting in effort and the other person puts none in... but that's why you should get to know someone before rushing into an engagement. They all say, "this isn't just a tv show, this is my life."... Well, that's not true. If this were real life, you wouldn't be forced to either get engaged or break up. You would date and get to know someone in every day life, not just lying around on a beach where there is no stress and everything is swimming and laying on day beds. Katie doesn't know Chris. She knows what he's like when cameras are following him on a beach all day and night.

I'd go a step further:  you decide to "find love" on television and proceed to put everything on display during the season and at the reunion show including, apparently blind-siding your fiance, you are fair game for people to armchair-analyze.

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I was horribly confused by the whole Katie/Chris thing. Is Katie wanting Chris to reaffirm his love for her every hour? On stage, she put the ring back on, but then outside the ring was off.  Did she take it off right after their time onstage was over? Or were we shown those two scenes out of sequence?  All of it was painful to watch.  If a relationship takes so much darn "work" in the earliest stages, then it isn't meant to be.

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I would feel sorry for Katie if she were stuck in a loveless marriage with kids,  where it is much much harder for her to leave her partner who doesn't fill her "love tank". However, this is not the case. She knew him for 2 weeks before engagement and has been dating just a couple of months. If she's really unhappy it's not that difficult to just walk away. Like how Whitney and Connor have broken up since filming. But I believe Katie wants bragging rights as one of the successful Bachelor nation couples, so she's hanging onto him by hook or crook. I like Katie and thinks she's a nice person but this is just what I see.

Edited by waving feather
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1 hour ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I think you reap what you sow when you agree to get engaged after a few days of knowing each other. These people are more wrapped up in the TV love story and being the next Jade and Tanner than they are serious about turning the engagement into an actual marriage. I know Katie has actual feelings for Chris, and you're right.. it does suck to be in a relationship where you are putting in effort and the other person puts none in... but that's why you should get to know someone before rushing into an engagement. They all say, "this isn't just a tv show, this is my life."... Well, that's not true. If this were real life, you wouldn't be forced to either get engaged or break up. You would date and get to know someone in every day life, not just lying around on a beach where there is no stress and everything is swimming and laying on day beds. Katie doesn't know Chris. She knows what he's like when cameras are following him on a beach all day and night.

I personally think they have to get engaged at the end, orders by the producers. That's probably a well known secret. As for your point about how she doesn't know him, no she does not. But she obviously wants this to work. Why? I can only guess. There's something telling her that this will work, and I think that something is Chris himself. If he just told her things aren't going to change and she needs to accept that's who he is or leave, then I would agree with everyone. But she talked about her seeing those glimmers of hope, and he obviously tries to say the right things to her. It's clear he doesn't mean it and for some reason won't end it himself. Remember him saying that thing about "when do you except things will change" or whatever he said.

I'm not gonna lie, she is desperate. But I have sympathy. This whole "process" is humiliating for someone in her position. She put herself there, yes. I know, I know. But I still feel sorry for her. The whole point of the show is to find love, and I think she was sincere, albeit naive, about it.

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I was thinking, maybe Katie took her ring off and left it home or at the hotel before she went to the finale night. Then Lane steps in with a temporary ring to use for stage purposes and she had to give it back before leaving. We'd never know if it was the same original ring or not.

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8 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Seriously. Now I finally understand Hannah B’s perception of Caelynn. I always thought Hannah came off as the instigator and was shocked that they made her Bachelorette, but now I do believe that Caelynn “turned” on her. But Caelynn has us convinced Hannah was just jealous.

I suspected Caelynn was the instigator from the start, mainly because she always managed to weave her "I was 1st runner up and she didn't even place" humblebrag into her retelling of the story.

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She needs to stop crying about being slut shamed as a get out of jail free card for lying. Everything Blake said made perfect sense last night. Caelynn and her manufactured sobs are just a red herring meant to distract from her poor choices and behavior. She's transparent AF, and I have no idea why anyone was defending her.

This show loves to support shit like this. Caelynn can pretend she's "standing up for all women against slut-shaming," while brushing the facts of her lies under the rug. Slut shaming is not the issue, her making a HUGE deal about her encounter with Blake and constantly bringing it up, while conveniently leaving her role out, is the issue.

The show actually DID support it this entire season with the Blake as villain storyline that was woven throughout the entire show. A single guy having multiple, consensual encounters with equally single women is not villainous. Yeah, it's not fun to have a whole bunch of people you've hooked up with in the same place, but if Caelynn hadn't made it her mission to spread her sad story all over the place, I don't think it would have been awkward past the first couple of days. 

Part of the motive on the show's part might have been to try to sell Hannah and Dylan as an against all odds romantic success story (loyal Dylan vanquishes the player, Blake, instead of the real story: a spineless, shallow puppy following the pretty girl around until she gives in and dates him). 

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I would feel sorry for Katie if she were stuck in a loveless marriage with kids,  where it is much much harder for her to leave her partner who doesn't fill her "love tank". However, this is not the case. She knew him for 2 weeks before engagement and has been dating just a couple of months. If she's really unhappy it's not that difficult to just walk away. Like how Whitney and Connor have broken up since filming. But I believe Katie wants bragging rights as one of the successful Bachelor nation couples, so she's hanging onto him by hook or crook. I like Katie and thinks she's a nice person but this is just what I see.

Agreed. Nothing about what she said to Chris Harrison sounded like a good or healthy situation worth saving. Having that much resentment THAT early? What would be the point of continuing on?

It's possible that she just wanted that last moment and now that the show is fully wrapped up, she'll walk away, or he will. 

And to be fair to Chris with regard to her hoping that she'd watch the show and see him being in love with her, she herself did not come across as in love with him either. So either there's lots of footage of her declarations of love on the cutting room floor (which would mean that the same could easily be true of him), or she's fairly equally inexpressive and has to accept the fact that he's not that demonstrative a guy. 

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Also, Peter simultaneously looks 15 and 40. I wonder if it stings that he only got the gig because the two much more heavily favored front runners are dating A-listers now, lol. Personally, I'd much rather be dating Gigi Hadid/Demi Lovato than refereeing high school spats between 30 emotionally unstable "Instagram influencers."

This was another disappointing choice. He seemed like a nice enough guy, but there was no "there" there behind the perma-smile. Speaking of, did he do something to his face or teeth? His smile used to cheese out of his face so hard that you couldn't see anything else, but it seems toned down somehow.

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That video of Jade post-birth asking if her baby was ok seemed way too personal and intense for this dumb show.

Totally agreed. Now that I've read a bit about what a dick Tanner has turned out to be, I especially hated this whole segment, including his "gotta generate that content" remark about shooting the video and "it was easy" about the birth. 

She was so desperate and emotional and in such a vulnerable state, it was much too real to be on this garbage show. 

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I started off really disliking Blake on BIP (didn't watch that season of the Bachelor) but by the end, I actually like him.  He doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed, but I don't think what he did either at Stagecoach or by releasing the texts was wrong.  

I actually felt like he owed Kristina maybe just a tad more because they sound like they have built a solid friendship and tried to be friends with benefits.  That doesn't work for everyone and certainly not for someone with Kristina or Caelynn's baggage.  

So, I hold Blake harmless and apologize for my ugly comments in the early threads.  He's (sometimes) attractive and probably a swell dude.  He just needs to learn to read the room a bit and protect himself a bit better.   I was glad to see Kristina comforting him during the break.  

He can even date my daughter if he wants to ask her.  But she doesn't like swing dancing. 

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21 hours ago, NoThyme said:

Why did they boo Kristina?

when she was introduced, hahaha it was great.

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everyone wants to be jade and tanner, but behind the scenes he is an abusive jackass to her--its sad. as far as chris and katie, the first few weeks in a realtionship is usually thrilling and hearts and flowers....to take her ring off on national tv and shame him into putting the ring back on and having chris harrison even say "were watching you" that poor guy was walking the plank. I feel awful for him--she is a very desparate woman and that wears thin after a while.

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The in-house audience is so annoying to me because they get so sucked into the narrative and back up whatever is on their agenda. The booing Kristina, the clapping for Onyeka saying things against Blake, etc.

What in the world did Kristina do that was so bad? She played the game and tried to stay on the beach? A lot of people did that, Kristina just did it more openly.

Audience is a bunch of suckers. I fast-forwarded through like half of this finale anyway. Onto the next one.

P.S. JPJ and Tayshia being a cute couple did warm my cold, shriveled heart.

Edited by kita
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I just watched. Katie’s tank is empty because she is an emotional black hole, needing endless support and reassurance. Chris needs a woman who is more insensitive, like he is. That is a terrible match.

Katie would work better with a Dylan type who is constantly worshipping his partner.

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8 hours ago, kita said:

The in-house audience is so annoying to me because they get so sucked into the narrative and back up whatever is on their agenda. The booing Kristina, the clapping for Onyeka saying things against Blake, etc.

What in the world did Kristina do that was so bad? She played the game and tried to stay on the beach? A lot of people did that, Kristina just did it more openly.

Audience is a bunch of suckers. I fast-forwarded through like half of this finale anyway. Onto the next one.

P.S. JPJ and Tayshia being a cute couple did warm my cold, shriveled heart.

The audience is highly coached and the show highly edited.   When you see a close up, you don’t know for sure what they were really reacting to.  They take then through all the reactions before the show starts, laughing, clapping, booing, so they can edit where required.  

Audience composition is also carefully vetted/partially recruited, by gender, age, socioeconomic look (notice everyone is dressed up).     I am not sure if they sign an actual confidentiality agreement but an acquaintance  I knew who went to the WTA many years ago said there was much she couldn’t talk about, legally.  

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2 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I am not sure if they sign an actual confidentiality agreement but an acquaintance  I knew who went to the WTA many years ago said there was much she couldn’t talk about, legally.  

Verrrrry interesting. I can't believe I never thought about that, but an NDA makes perfect sense. Total Bachelor move, too.

Too bad people break those things all the time.

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22 hours ago, kita said:

The in-house audience is so annoying to me because they get so sucked into the narrative and back up whatever is on their agenda. The booing Kristina, the clapping for Onyeka saying things against Blake, etc.

What in the world did Kristina do that was so bad? She played the game and tried to stay on the beach? A lot of people did that, Kristina just did it more openly.

Audience is a bunch of suckers. I fast-forwarded through like half of this finale anyway. Onto the next one.

P.S. JPJ and Tayshia being a cute couple did warm my cold, shriveled heart.

me personally, she seemed to attempt to block Blake having a connection with anyone but herself--I thought she came across rude and harsh--I used to adore her. obviously several people agreed because she was booed when introduced.

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58 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

me personally, she seemed to attempt to block Blake having a connection with anyone but herself--I thought she came across rude and harsh--I used to adore her. obviously several people agreed because she was booed when introduced.

Yes, in her preparation for her date with Blake, she stated she was, "going to make him my bitch".  Then throughout the show, she approached him like she was only looking out for him, as a best friend would.  I kept questioning her motives.  He'd be interested in someone and she would talk him out of it.  Then when he wanted to try to make a go of it between them, she initially agreed, but then backed out of it.

I really couldn't figure her out. I don't know if she was playing him, or was as broken as he was.

Edited by deSchenke
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16 hours ago, NoWhammies said:

My thought about the whole Caelynn-Blake-Kristina-everyone else at Stagecoach thing is this: 

  • If you can't handle no-strings sex, don't offer it.
  • If you think you can offer no strings sex as a way to get "in" with another person and make them fall for you, don't. Life is not a rom-com and people in rom-coms do not act like real people - they are the product of a writer's imagination.
  • If you're offered no-strings sex, don't believe it or expect the other person to behave as if that is what they offered in the first place.
  • If you did offer no-strings sex and someone took you up on that, you've given up your right to get mad when that person takes you at your word and believes the sex was truly no-strings.

Makes me nuts when people claim that it's just an easy, no-strings attached sexual relationship and then get all bent when the other person believes them and acts like that. I taught my now adult son that just because a woman claims they won't be attached if they have sex doesn't mean it's true. Nobody can predict how that post-coital neurochemistry will affect them - it can be as powerful as a hit of heroin and activate cycles of addiction that people mistake as "love", even when the original agreement was, "It's just sex and nothing else."  I've known many people who claimed they could handle that, but really they thought it was a secret backdoor way into the other person's heart. 

As Blake was trying to defend himself onstage and everyone was villainizing him while taking up for Caelynn, all I could think was, "Blake is not wrong here." What the hell was he supposed to do? A true gentleman doesn't kiss and tell, but neither does a true lady. What a ridiculous bleeping double standard the whole Bachelor ethos has.

Can every future contestant get a copy of this?!

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2 hours ago, nutty1 said:

Can every future contestant get a copy of this?!

I think the whole world needs a copy.  Including at least 4 people I know.

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No strings is fine & all, but what about DISEASES & PREGNANCY?? #TESTRESULTS #QUARANTINE 😂😂

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I think that reality doesn't always match up with what Katie imagines or wants.  She stated she was disappointed that while watching the episodes she didn't see Chris fall madly in love with her from day 1.  Of course, she's forgetting that she encouraged him to go on dates and expected him not to go.  But, he did go.  I think she also thinks that he should drop everything and only focus on her once they were engaged.  Well, no.  Chris is one of the few in Bachelor Nation who actually has a real job (i.e. not instagram...).  In the "real" world, we have to balance our lives.  Many of those who see their careers being dependent upon participating in all of these shows don't necessarily have other obligations and they can just hang around and declare their love for each other all day.

The narratives seem to focus on the women and how the men have treated them horribly rather than how it takes two to make a relationship and that both of them have to make compromises.

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On 9/17/2019 at 10:02 PM, kazza said:

What a mess. I felt bad for him. He's just really not good at articulating and defending himself, and I do genuinely believe that he's just clueless.  

The show should be concerned about his emotional health. He looked like a wreck. 

He really shouldn't go on these shows. 

I have thought that this entire season. I just want to mother that poor boy. 

On 9/18/2019 at 7:51 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

Exactly and she did the same to ABC Cam just to get a rose. She can be quite mercenary. It must be the pageant bitch in her. 

9B12520A-2D93-4078-86B6-AF47E9DC6E53.jpeg

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I just can’t with these people. Fuck that Tanner guy for letting this trash heap show trot out his postpartum wife and toddler and show that traumatic birth experience on national TV. I hate him. 

And what is wrong with a Sara Hyland that she gave the OK for her new husband to jump out of a gigantic cardboard cake wearing an adult-sized onesie? She has a legitimate image to somewhat protect and this can’t be helping. On that note, I think the security guards were more excited about that gender reveal than the actual parents were. 

Edited by Bethanne
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I don't think Blake or Caelynn are angels.  However, I find it bizarre that Caelynn would trash Blake's reputation during Paradise on national TV and people found this acceptable.  However, when he provided proof of their texts to show Caelynn wasn't telling the truth, then he was ripped apart for going too far.  Wtf?

Blake has every right to defend himself.  I admit that I was on Caelynn's side until I saw those text messages between Blake and Caelynn.  Caelynn is highly manipulative and immature.  I sure hope Dean never breaks her heart.  I wouldn't surprise me if she later says that Blake put duct tape on her mouth and forced her to live in a van with him. Smh...

The thing that irks me the most is when Caelynn had told Blake before going to Paradise to not make a big deal out of anything.  She tried to play it cool even though she had deeper feelings for Blake. She said she was "fine."  Then Jordan points out that when a woman says she's "fine," she actually means the exact opposite.  This is sadly true in general....at least among women in their early 20s.  It's because of these immature women that men do not take "no" for an answer.  Many men have been trained by such women to interpret "no" as "try harder."  It becomes impossible for them to figure out whether to take their partner's words seriously or to assume that their partner actually means the exact opposite.  This is what men mean when they say they don't understand women and why many in the younger generation (30s or younger) have given up on dating altogether.   I have had guy friends that stopped when a woman said "no," and were then insulted by these women for not being "real men" (their "no" meant "try harder").  Not cool. Say what you mean, please. Men should be able to assume that every "no" means "no" instead of wondering whether it is a code word for something else. It causes men a lot of anxiety.  Note: I'm talking about regular men, not actual rapists.

I feel that if a man or woman cannot be upfront with how they feel or establish their boundaries, then they have zero business dating.  It is not Blake's job to read Caelynn's mind. She is 24, not 16.  If she says she is fine and she has zero romantic feelings regarding their fling, then he should be able to believe her.   It is her job as an adult to advocate for herself.  If she wanted a real relationship with Blake, then she should've said that from the start.  Blake definitely made mistakes, but so did Caelynn.  Putting all of the blame on Blake infantilizes Caelynn.  Either she is a grown woman capable of making her own decisions or she is a little girl who needs to be protected from big mean men like Blake.  She can't have it both ways.  It's time to stop infantilizing grown women.  

Edited by PhysNerd
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9 hours ago, Bethanne said:

I just can’t with these people. Fuck that Tanner guy for letting this trash heap show trot out his postpartum wife and toddler and show that traumatic birth experience on national TV. I hate him. 

I can't imagine Tanner would air that video if Jade hadn't okayed it first.  I also assumed that "this was easy," was Tanner repeating what Jade had been saying to people.  I know if I was comparing "baby came in the pre-planned home area a few minutes before the midwife got there" with 12 hours of hard labor, I would call it easy, too.  My one and only baby started coming fast when we had no car and I was in final labor in a taxi full of partying boys and delivered a few minutes after getting to the hospital. I still call it easy.

  Jade's a certified exhibitionist.  I'm sure she loves seeing herself in that dramatic video.

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13 hours ago, PhysNerd said:

This is what men mean when they say they don't understand women and why many in the younger generation (30s or younger) have given up on dating altogether.   I have had guy friends that stopped when a woman said "no," and were then insulted by these women for not being "real men" (their "no" meant "try harder").  Not cool. Say what you mean, please. Men should be able to assume that every "no" means "no" instead of wondering whether it is a code word for something else. It causes men a lot of anxiety.  Note: I'm talking about regular men, not actual rapists.

Caelynn disgusts me because she lies and manipulates men to get what she wants. I sympathize with guys who have to deal with girls like her who mess with their heads, who lie to their faces then turn on them when they can't read the girls mind and do what she expects. Blake is a simple guy. I think he just took the things she said at face value and had no clue what a lying little bitch she really is. 

She made it so Blake could have screwed every single female on that beach and I'd still be on his side (so long as they were willing participants) because she is the absolute worst. 

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I just remembered that it was Blake's mother who had an affair with his football coach and the whole school knew about it.  Poor guy must have trust issues with women already and then he gets the kiss and lie about it treatment from Caelynn.

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The more I think about this season, and yes I'm aware of how depressing it is that I'm thinking about this season, the more I'm convinced that BIP's descent into 21 Day Fiancee and all the various efforts to make us think that this is about true love are related to the controversy around Corrine and Demario.  At first it looked like ABC was going to have to close down the show but once they were able to salvage it they had to sell a narrative that they were socially responsible.  Hence the cutting back on alcohol and the increased emphasis on marriage.  Blake was a perfect object lesson for them because he seemed to think everything was cool and then could be caught out for being "wrong reasons.". The old style BIP of going to the beach hanging around and maybe continuing isn't enough to continue the fiction that the producers are doing this to help people find love.  But they need that fiction after the scandal.

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13 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

The more I think about this season, and yes I'm aware of how depressing it is that I'm thinking about this season, the more I'm convinced that BIP's descent into 21 Day Fiancee and all the various efforts to make us think that this is about true love are related to the controversy around Corrine and Demario.  At first it looked like ABC was going to have to close down the show but once they were able to salvage it they had to sell a narrative that they were socially responsible.  Hence the cutting back on alcohol and the increased emphasis on marriage.  Blake was a perfect object lesson for them because he seemed to think everything was cool and then could be caught out for being "wrong reasons.". The old style BIP of going to the beach hanging around and maybe continuing isn't enough to continue the fiction that the producers are doing this to help people find love.  But they need that fiction after the scandal.

I’m sure that definitely sped things up, but once Jade and Tanner happened I think this was the show’s (unfortunate) destiny. Now Harrison’s goal is to just keep adding to the list of couples that have made it from this show, “Jade and Tanner. Carly and Evan. Ashley and Jared...”

I used to watch a lot of reality shows, and I’ve noticed the first couple seasons are loose, strange, fun, interesting, and bizarre. They’re what hook us originally. But once producers find a hook for the show they become more and more scripted and the contestants just want to be on TV, so they’ll follow whatever narrative the show wants. This season was awful, but it was also infinitely easier to film than prior seasons. Producers had this whole season figured out before the first contestant showed up. I’m sure there was some room for couples to break up/get together, but nothing was going to be a surprise. Blake and Stagecoach was going to start, Demi’s “relationship” was going to follow, then Caelyn and Dean would have their shit go down. This was set up to have content evenly spread out over 21 days, no dead spots, and no “good” footage wasted because other storylines were more important. Just following people around for 21 days and hoping you catch stuff is too risky for ABC. And signs are that ratings are up, which justifies the process. 

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2 hours ago, Stan39 said:

And signs are that ratings are up, which justifies the process. 

Yep, people can complain all they want as long as they keep watching the show is going to keep going in the direction it is. 

I do agree about your "reality show arch" I've seen it on pretty much every reality show. The first season is raw, unexpected, there is something that gets the audience talking. Production takes that thing people talk about and start forcing it in the next seasons, can't rely on the same magic happening all on it's own. People who want to get on the show see the things that make "fan favorites" or "love to hate villains" and practice doing those things and the whole thing becomes fake. It's really inevitable. Even on straight up competition shows, like cooking shows, contestants get savvy to what gets more screen time and play a character. 

I rarely make it through many seasons of reality shows for this reason. I haven't actually made it through a whole season of a Bach show in years. I watch the first few, get the gist of the story line, then just follow along online out of some sort of morbid fascination, but even that is waning. 

But ratings wise, these shows are a huge success, fairly cheap to produce against a multi million dollar an ep drama, and bring in huge numbers no matter how many people complain that the show sucks. lol And there is so much ability to cross market, with them going on DWTS, doing commentator stuff, the events, etc. This franchise is big business. 

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2 hours ago, Stan39 said:

I’m sure that definitely sped things up, but once Jade and Tanner happened I think this was the show’s (unfortunate) destiny. Now Harrison’s goal is to just keep adding to the list of couples that have made it from this show, “Jade and Tanner. Carly and Evan. Ashley and Jared...”

I used to watch a lot of reality shows, and I’ve noticed the first couple seasons are loose, strange, fun, interesting, and bizarre. They’re what hook us originally. But once producers find a hook for the show they become more and more scripted and the contestants just want to be on TV, so they’ll follow whatever narrative the show wants. This season was awful, but it was also infinitely easier to film than prior seasons. Producers had this whole season figured out before the first contestant showed up. I’m sure there was some room for couples to break up/get together, but nothing was going to be a surprise. Blake and Stagecoach was going to start, Demi’s “relationship” was going to follow, then Caelyn and Dean would have their shit go down. This was set up to have content evenly spread out over 21 days, no dead spots, and no “good” footage wasted because other storylines were more important. Just following people around for 21 days and hoping you catch stuff is too risky for ABC. And signs are that ratings are up, which justifies the process. 

You may be right and I certainly agree with your notion that at a certain point the shows start repeating themselves both because the producers want it and because the characters start playing roles.  But the particular story line is more contingent.  All of your spot on plot lines could happen without the engagement fetish.   But then it would just be “another reality show.”  Harrison on BIP is just a smoother version of Pastor Cal on Married at First Sight.

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38 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

All of your spot on plot lines could happen without the engagement fetish.

I get the feeling the contestants are the ones with the engagement fetish once they realized how much more attention they would get for their social media sales "careers". Few individuals get as much attention as the "couples" do, whether successful or not. This show is all about these morons becoming "influencers" so they need to do whatever it takes to keep the public talking about them. Engagement is the easiest way to do so. 

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18 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

You may be right and I certainly agree with your notion that at a certain point the shows start repeating themselves both because the producers want it and because the characters start playing roles.  But the particular story line is more contingent.  All of your spot on plot lines could happen without the engagement fetish.   But then it would just be “another reality show.”  Harrison on BIP is just a smoother version of Pastor Cal on Married at First Sight.

I guess my point is that the engagements are part of the manufactured drama. Rather than let things end somewhat surprisingly or organically, where our favorite couples might just decide to continue dating in the real world, the show wants engagements to put a bow on the season. Heck, even the Bachelor didn’t start off with the lead getting engaged at the end but now that’s pretty much mandatory. 

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25 minutes ago, Stan39 said:

Rather than let things end somewhat surprisingly or organically, where our favorite couples might just decide to continue dating in the real world

That would be The!Most!Shocking!Season!EVER!!!! if they all just decided to go home and date without cameras around. hahahaha

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On 9/19/2019 at 10:14 AM, Jushi said:

I made an account just to comment on this. I really enjoy reading these forums but sometimes people on here think they know everything. Why is everyone being so harsh on Katie? You have no idea what their relationship is like on a day to day basis. You're basing everything off 15 minutes of television. I'm guessing none of you must know what it's like to be in a relationship where you feel unloved and unwanted. You're very lucky for that.

The relationship is just a manufactured, short lived, drama.  Don't like the roller coaster?  Don't buy a ticket on the Bachelor express.

WELCOME @Jushi!

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On 9/17/2019 at 7:43 PM, nutty1 said:

Please pardon my ignorance, but I thought the term queer was something of the past, an insulting term. I guess I’m wrong?? I’m dead serious with my question. 

Queer is totally mainstream in the academy, and in popular culture--Queer Eye for the Straight Guy anyone?

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So is anyone shocked or surprised that Demi and Christian broke up? Total fraud in my opinion.

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19 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

So is anyone shocked or surprised that Demi and Christian broke up? Total fraud in my opinion.

Stunned!!! 

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On 11/4/2019 at 6:58 PM, nlkm9 said:

So is anyone shocked or surprised that Demi and Christian broke up? Total fraud in my opinion.

I would love to respond but I died of shock!

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Lol. I read somewhere that she was taking a 3 day break from social media because she was devestated and was back on next day . Lol.

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On 11/6/2019 at 5:41 AM, nlkm9 said:

Lol. I read somewhere that she was taking a 3 day break from social media because she was devestated and was back on next day . Lol.

Hannah says she’s proud of Demi for being so honest. 

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