S12.E21: Joy Reid, Bobby Ghosh, Andy Dean, Dr. Martin Blaser, Max Brooks

[maraleia]

 

MSNBC's Joy Reid, Journalist Bobby Ghosh, Radio Host Andy Dean, "Missing Microbes" Author Dr. Martin Blaser, and Graphic Novelist Max Brooks.

 

[LADreamr]

Where to begin... I appreciate that Bill is informed, but it is so annoying the way he picks one point in any discussion to focus on and gnaws on that bone, with never an ear open to another point, or any complexity.  Is Iraq about religion?  Somewhat, but not completely.  And even that is mostly because of religious groups, not so much the civilians.  There has been a struggle in recent years, but that has mostly been between people who want their secular lives back in Iraq, and those who want it to be very strictly religious (and most of them are actually from Iran, trying to spread their ideology into Iraq, for an eventual complete takeover).  ISIS is a different thing altogether.  I was so glad that Bobby Ghosh and Max Brooks made those points.  Iran and Saudi Arabia have been flooding into Iraq for years to pick over the carcass it has become, for all the resources it has - politically, oil-related, and otherwise.  Legally, Iraqi citizens are supposed to get a share of the profits from oil production and sales.  But neighboring countries can't let that happen, if they can get it instead.  And that's only part of it.

 

Maliki is complaining that we didn't get the promised F16s to him.  I don't know if it's a better decision for Iraq to have them, or not.  On one hand, the Kurdish president was very worried that if Maliki had weapons, he'd be using them on the Kurds.  On the other hand, as soon as Maliki started complaining about the delay, a couple of years ago, Putin jumped right in and set up a $4.2 billion arms deal with him.  Putin has been trying to get his hand in militarily in a lot of places in the Middle East, and that's a little unnerving, too.

 

Anyway, I won't go on and on and bore everyone.  Just saying I could go on and on and still not really cover all the issues.  I just wish Bill could get over his ego enough to know that maybe there's more to any given story than he knows about, and that's OK.  It's OK to just listen and learn sometimes.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I only watched tonight to see Andy Dean, not because I agree with his views, but because he's an old high school classmate.  Poor guy is getting killed on Twitter, probably rightfully so, but I kind of enjoyed him getting under Bill's skin a little.  It's something he's always had a knack for.  

[HelenBaby]

Dean was an annoying little gnat. He was pontificating on some point, which BTW didn't make much sense, and ended it with the expectation that the crowd, or at least part of it, would applaud. Bur it was dead silent. It was hilarious. He was one step away from "I know you are, but what am I" territory.

[NextIteration]

His efforts to conflate 9/11 with Iraq were hilarious, it was wonderful to see him called out on it and then he just looked like a sheepish little kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar and had to admit his transgression.  If only he had known that Hubris had just finished airing on MSNBC prior to Real Time.  Chuckles.  The juxtaposition was quite ironic.

[b2H]

There was an awful lot of cross-talk, which made the program difficult to follow.

 

The thing I was disappointed in most - Bobby Ghosh was on the Baghdad desk for Time Magazine.  I have a feeling that he probably knows more about that situation than anyone else on the panel, including Bill, having been the bureau chief there for five years (and recently left the position).  I would have appreciated his viewpoint over anyone else's, given his direct affiliation.

 

http://nypost.com/2014/06/19/time-magazines-baghdad-bureau-chief-jumps-ship/

 

Andy Dean is the conservative equivalent of Ronan Farrow:  Lots of talking points, but nothing substantial.  Nice to see you, sir - here are your lovely parting gifts and your hat, what's your hurry?

 

Joy Reid was, no pun intended, a joy.  Not only did she push back the BS, but she pushed back with facts, including the BS from Bill.  I hope she will be back.

[DXD526]

Andy Dean's choice of hairstyle made him look like eraserhead. It was distracting.

[attica]

Shallow post ahead!

 

I've been watching with some amusement over the past little while as Bill's  once nearly all-grey hair gets darker and darker. This week he hit the tipping point with The Dyeing of The Eyebrows. Look, I get that it alarms you when your hair dye shade doesn't match your greying eyebrows, but eyebrows (for northern-European descendant folk) generally don't match hair in their natural state. And it's always the dudes who get this wrong and go all matchy-matchy. It looks super bad and faketastic.

 

Max Brooks shares several vocal characteristics and facial expressions with his dad. Clearly he got his lovely head of hair from his mom.

 

I've seen Joy wear that dress before; I remember it because I covet it every time I see it.

[iMonrey]

I would not have known Max Brooks was the son of Mel Brooks if Bill hadn't said so. Afterwards, I could see the resemblance.

 

Good Lord Andy Dean was just one right wing talking point machine. First of all, the argument against fighting climate change always seems to be "it will put people out of jobs." And, as Bill pointed out, coal mining is a crappy job to try to save. I just don't understand this argument. The good news is people keep their jobs. The bad news is, we all die. Like that's an acceptable tradeoff. The only way to defend this position is to deny climate change is really happening or that it's man-made. As Dean alluded to "maybe 30 years from now."

 

And yes, maybe Bill has an overly simplistic view of the situation in Iraq but Dean's is even worse. "They hate our way of life." What utter bullshit. It's the same garbage we heard from the neocons in the runup to the Iraq war.

 

The Kurds are wonderful people, because they love Israel and America. Oh, OK. Apparently, that's the litmus test. Loving Israel and the U.S. makes you a wonderful person regardless of any other characteristic, and I guess if you don't love Israel and America, you're a horrible person.

[ShuFace88]

The "killing jobs" argument against climate change legislation is really getting tired.  There are only about 90,000 coal mining jobs left in the United States.  Even if you include related jobs such as truck drivers that haul the coal, these jobs are approximately one tenth of one  percent of the jobs in the United States.  The Republicans want to risk millions of people's lives and our entire economy in order to save a very small number of very crappy jobs.  Mountain-top removal mining is a bigger risk to mining jobs than climate change legislation.  And as Joy pointed out, the people who live near these coal companies are not too pleased that they can't drink their water.  I imagine that a man who digs coal for a living would be perfectly capable of assembling and installing solar panels or wind turbines.  They wouldn't even get black lung disease as a bonus!  This isn't about protecting jobs, this is about protecting coal companies profits!

Edited June 28, 2014 by ShuFace88

[ganesh]

I'm glad someone actually mentioned nuclear. Although that guy was a douche bagI know Bill is anti-nuclear power, and he certainly raises legit questions, but he's terribly uninformed about nuclear. I don't mean to rant, but "because Three Mile Island" is also misinformed. No one died and the release of radiation was barely above background levels. She was right though, no one wants small government.

 

But there's not really a way to address climate change right now without nuclear until renewables finally catch up, and you create long terms jobs.

 

I think the China, India blah blah blah is a canard. Everyone knows if the USA actually takes the lead in really fighting climate change, the rest of the world is going to catch up.

 

 

The thing I was disappointed in most - Bobby Ghosh was on the Baghdad desk for Time Magazine.  I have a feeling that he probably knows more about that situation than anyone else on the panel, including Bill, having been the bureau chief there for five years (and recently left the position).  I would have appreciated his viewpoint over anyone else's, given his direct affiliation.

Yeah, but saying they aren't in a religious civil war is kind of a load. I suppose religiously-motivated is more apt. But you can't take religion out of it.

Edited June 29, 2014 by ganesh

[iMonrey]

I agree, ganesh. I'm sure there are a lot of factors involved, but it still boils down to Shia vs. Sunni and their interpretation of the Koran. You can say the Crusades weren't about religion either but the fact is if you took religion out of the equation there probably wouldn't be an issue to discuss. Shiites dominate Iraq and Al Maliki hasn't included Sunnis in his government so it's political from that perspective, but if they were all Shiites there'd be no problem. I don't know how else you identify the factions other than by religion.

[ganesh]

They were saying the same thing on the news today as that smug prick on the show: this civil war directly threatens the US. I just don't think it's about us at all. Beyond them wanting US military support. Bill's awful but it's kind of true, it's not going to end until they kill enough of themselves off and are like, oh shit.

[Maherjunkie]

I noticed that too, Attica, not the eyebrows but the hair.  He does look better with color.   Does anybody else notice that Andy Dean looks like the guy on the back of the Bazooka bubble gum wrappers?  Maybe I have him confused with a comic books character.  Or Shoney's Big Boy.

[Maherjunkie]

I only watched tonight to see Andy Dean, not because I agree with his views, but because he's an old high school classmate.  Poor guy is getting killed on Twitter, probably rightfully so, but I kind of enjoyed him getting under Bill's skin a little.  It's something he's always had a knack for.  

If you don't mind me asking, Mabul, what was he like in school?