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Door County Cherry

S01.E08: Episode 8

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My only complaint is that we didn't get a final scene with (either or both of) the foster mom. I kind of expected Marie to hand her the check with the $ 500 she lent her.

Amazing series. I think I'm dehydrated from all the crying. It wasn't even during the really emotional moments, but just small moments in between really got to me.

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What a great show! I haven't been interested enough to speed binge an entire series in a while.

I really liked some of the smaller moments, such as Karen and her husband working different shifts. It wasn't a plot point in any way, it just was. Easier to get minor details right when it's a true story, but they made things feel much more normal and lived in. Same with Karen being religious, although that did inform her character's personality and motivations.

Was Wever supposed to be playing younger? Collette is only seven years her senior. It's not like there are age requirements for mentors, but some of the dialog made it seem like there was supposed to be a larger age gap.

We know Collette is capable of pulling off an perfect American accent, but the actress who played Amber is also Australian and did a similarly great job. I saw her in the movie Dumplin' where she was not only American, but a small town Texan. I'm really bad at accents, so it always impresses me.

I may have missed it, but did they ever find out the password to McCarthy's hard drive?

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Great, great series.   It's been a long time since I couldn't stop watching a show.    Great job by everyone.  The show was just perfectly cast.  Merritt, Toni were exceptional but so was the young girl who played Marie (It took be a bit to remember where I've seen the actress before but then I remembered she was the young girl fromf Justififed)

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I may have missed it, but did they ever find out the password to McCarthy's hard drive?

Nope.  McCarthy wouldn't give up the password and we never heard that the cops were able to gain access.

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This article is very interesting to read about the comparison between the true story and the series.

And here is the original story the show is based on.

My biggest frustration, outrage and dismay is the fact that this guy would've been stopped with his FIRST rape if those cops had actually done their job!!

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Wonderful series, with a very satisfying ending.  it did clear up one thing for me:  Why Marie accepted so little money (also:  no apology, no commitment to change things going forward) to settle her case when the city's conduct was so egregious - I do understand how she just wanted it to be over, so she could get on with her life.  I'm sure the lawyer, working I assume on contingency, was expecting a bigger pay out.  I sure hope she had good things happen in her life. 

I think my favorite moment was when the bad cop saw right through Grace's attempt to "pick him up" at the bar to get his DNA.  She did deserve his contempt, if not the spit. 

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15 hours ago, mjc570 said:

Wonderful series, with a very satisfying ending.  it did clear up one thing for me:  Why Marie accepted so little money (also:  no apology, no commitment to change things going forward) to settle her case when the city's conduct was so egregious - I do understand how she just wanted it to be over, so she could get on with her life.  I'm sure the lawyer, working I assume on contingency, was expecting a bigger pay out.  I sure hope she had good things happen in her life. 

I think my favorite moment was when the bad cop saw right through Grace's attempt to "pick him up" at the bar to get his DNA.  She did deserve his contempt, if not the spit. 

If you’re interested in reading about the real Marie, I linked a couple articles above. 

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11 hours ago, mjc570 said:

Wonderful series, with a very satisfying ending.  it did clear up one thing for me:  Why Marie accepted so little money (also:  no apology, no commitment to change things going forward) to settle her case when the city's conduct was so egregious - I do understand how she just wanted it to be over, so she could get on with her life.  I'm sure the lawyer, working I assume on contingency, was expecting a bigger pay out.  I sure hope she had good things happen in her life. 

I think my favorite moment was when the bad cop saw right through Grace's attempt to "pick him up" at the bar to get his DNA.  She did deserve his contempt, if not the spit. 

Ugh I know, but I was dying when she accepted that first offer.  She did get an apology from the one detective (I was actually impressed by how contrite he was), but that other detective absolutely should have apologized too.

That guy was awful.

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On 9/14/2019 at 4:19 PM, CloudySky said:

My only complaint is that we didn't get a final scene with (either or both of) the foster mom. I kind of expected Marie to hand her the check with the $ 500 she lent her.

Yeah I wanted that too. I thought they could have had the cop go see the foster mom to get a current address/work place for Marie. That way she has to ask why he's looking for her and finds out that Marie was telling the truth. I didn't want a scene between her and Marie but I did want the scene of her finding out.

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3 hours ago, ErinV said:

Ugh I know, but I was dying when she accepted that first offer.  She did get an apology from the one detective (I was actually impressed by how contrite he was), but that other detective absolutely should have apologized too.

They should really apologize to every victim who came after her as well since they neglected to pursue a serial rapist.

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4 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Yeah I wanted that too. I thought they could have had the cop go see the foster mom to get a current address/work place for Marie. That way she has to ask why he's looking for her and finds out that Marie was telling the truth. I didn't want a scene between her and Marie but I did want the scene of her finding out.

I also wish that the media picked up on this story and published that she actually hadn't been lying.  Maybe they did?  Marie should've demanded that the detectives make that happen.  Though I'm not questioning how Marie handled anything.

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On 9/14/2019 at 5:19 PM, CloudySky said:

My only complaint is that we didn't get a final scene with (either or both of) the foster mom.

That was my biggest disappointment.  

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My biggest dissatisfaction with the show is that no effort is made to give McCarthy any dimension.  He's just there, the boogie-man in the dark.  Not that he should be given equal time with the story of the victims, but  I would like to know more about his motivations. 

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On 9/14/2019 at 5:19 PM, CloudySky said:

My only complaint is that we didn't get a final scene with (either or both of) the foster mom. I kind of expected Marie to hand her the check with the $ 500 she lent her.

Hahahahha!  And I wanted a final scene of her because I wanted her to die.  Too much?  I fucking hated that bitch.

I want to marry Merritt Wever please!!!!!  I would watch 5 more seasons of her detecting.

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23 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

that was very much an intentional choice because there's already plenty of stories where violent men are humanized.

I understand it was a choice by the producers, I'm saying that choice left me unsatisfied.  I've just finished the audiobook (it's awesome, BTW) and there is much more background about the rapist.  Although ultimately even he can't explain why he did it other than an inexplicable compulsion. 

Do we have a thread about the book?  I might have to start one. 

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Loved everything about this series.... some of it was hard to watch but there were soooo many excellent choices in writing, acting, casting, directing....I could go on and on but I want to point out one moment that probably won't get a mention.

The acting of Eric Lange in the moment his character realised just how badly he had f'ed up the original investigation....that was Alexis Bledel worthy face acting!! Outstanding.

Also I could watch Merritt Wever channel her inner Holly Hunter all day!    

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What a great series! It was a hard watch, especially at the beginning, but it was also very important and had a really fulfilling pay off. It was great to see Marie finally get vindication and an apology and the knowledge that the man who raped her is in jail for the rest of his life and start to move on to rebuild her life. I just wish we had seen her stop by her foster moms (especially that terrible first one who went to the cops and started this whole thing!) and rub how wrong they were in their stupid faces, and demand apologizes from every asshole who treated her like crap, but I guess we cant get everything we want.

I guess I will give the detective who didnt believe Marie at least an once of credit, he did fess up immediately to what a mistake he made and didnt try to make excuses or anything for his shitty behavior. Its so frustrating that if they had just done jobs and investigated Maries case, they probably would have caught him years ago and none of the other rapes would have even happened! So much misery because of uncaring people. 

Really great job by the whole cast, as well as everyone behind the scenes. I was surprised to read how much was directly based on the actual case, normally so much gets changed in adaptation. 

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Just finished the series, and am basically echoing what everyone has already said above. This was an exceptional piece of television - it's right up there with Chernobyl as one of my favourite series of this year.  It was clear that a lot of women were involved in the making of this, and the care and attention really showed. 

Superb acting all around, and it wound up being a satisfying ending. I wish only good things for the real Marie and all the other women victims.

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I noticed she didn't get an apology from the other detective, who was equally complicit, if not more so, in pressuring her. That was annoying, but probably true to life.

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he did fess up immediately to what a mistake he made and didnt try to make excuses or anything for his shitty behavior. 

My big problem with him at least how it was portrayed here is when the other Washington rape happened and was similar to Marie's and that detective reached out the actor seemed to indicate a queasy guilty feeling like he knew he'd fucked up right then and there.  Also that was never really resolved and I assume that is one of the other rapes on the password locked hard drive. Like how long was he in Washington before he moved to Colorado? I can't remember if they said that perp took photographs, so maybe that is why they never even tried to connect them.

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On 9/15/2019 at 12:36 PM, Whimsy said:

This article is very interesting to read about the comparison between the true story and the series.

And here is the original story the show is based on.

My biggest frustration, outrage and dismay is the fact that this guy would've been stopped with his FIRST rape if those cops had actually done their job!!

I was frustrated by the foster mothers.  I know the police officers deservedly receive a lot of criticism, but the officers were pre-dispositioned not to believe Marie because of the comments of one of the foster mothers that called to express doubt about Marie's rape story.  I feel like she has been given a pass. 

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On 9/15/2019 at 1:08 AM, SnK said:

Nope.  McCarthy wouldn't give up the password and we never heard that the cops were able to gain access.

There also wasn't any real follow up about the cases from Kansas. Was it the same guy or was it someone using the same book like Duvall thought? They did such a good job proving his location timeline, so checking to see if he lived there shouldn't have been that hard.

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I don't need to have a backstory on McCarthy, then that turns it into a show about two detectives, Marie and McCarthy. For me, this is a very feminist show, director was a woman, written by a woman, some scenes only had a group of women in a room, you don't get that a heck of a lot on TV. It passed the Bedchel test with flying colors. I don't need extra scenes of, "hey, what's McCarthy up to? What's his day like?" He's just unspeakable evil, like the fear that women can have each and every day, when they go out at night, or go for a jog, or walk to their car after work. It's always there.

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On 9/15/2019 at 12:36 PM, Whimsy said:

My biggest frustration, outrage and dismay is the fact that this guy would've been stopped with his FIRST rape if those cops had actually done their job!!

I KNOW! All the subsequent victims should sue the shit out of those guys. I held my breath when baldy character actor Lost guy realized how badly he screwed up. It could go either way, accept responsibility or denial/cover up. His bad cop speech to Karen deserved damning silence in response.

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Excellent all the way through. Got very emotional at the sentencing scene. Timely show about sexual assault, how a woman’s world is just simply different than a mans and how the system gets it so wrong so often. That it’s a true story with, I won’t call it a happy ending, but a satisfying ending that this soulless son of a bitch got caught left me feeling much like Marie. A small part of my hope in humanity was restored.

PS: Marie should have sued the shit out of those bastards, a million dollars would have felt very good but I’m glad she was able to start over. What a transformation she made from ep1 to the last ep. 

PSS I could watch Merit and Toni read the phone book and be entranced. Well done ladies! 

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Oh wow, this was the best series, I watched it in one session. Fantastic acting and story. Broke my heart and warmed it as well. Toni Colette is the goddess of all things. Thank you Netflix!

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This show is amazing. It showed rape as rape should be depicted in films, like something that should make us livid and furious. I liked that we never saw the victims' naked bodies, that there were no bouncing tits (looking at you, GoT) or rapist' point of view, but the rapist was granted zero respect (kudos to the actor).  All the actors did a wonderful job, tbh.

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On 9/15/2019 at 12:36 PM, Whimsy said:

This article is very interesting to read about the comparison between the true story and the series.

And here is the original story the show is based on.

My biggest frustration, outrage and dismay is the fact that this guy would've been stopped with his FIRST rape if those cops had actually done their job!!

Not necessarily, they could have just run into dead ends, as the cops in Colorado did until they got lucky with the license plate. The rapist was worried that the cops in Washington might have cross referenced his DNA with the military database, but I think (not entirely sure) the police need a court order and probable cause that the suspect has a military background to do that.

I was interested to learn from the articles that the whole "might be a cop" plot line was made up for the show. I did think there were a few points where the writers/directors tried to insert an agenda beyond the dramatic flow of the show and facts of the case. the one that bothered me the most was Toni Colette's rant about cops and domestic violence, which was purely for the audience, since her partner was surely aware of the same statistics she was quoting.

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The phone call from Marie to Wever killed me. When she says that she had lost all faith in humanity, but the two detectives restored it, and now she can see the world with hopeful eyes again, I cried like a baby. If you can do that to someone, you're a true hero.  Wever and Colette will forever be my favorite TV duo.

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On 9/24/2019 at 11:41 AM, Rickster said:

Not necessarily, they could have just run into dead ends, as the cops in Colorado did until they got lucky with the license plate. The rapist was worried that the cops in Washington might have cross referenced his DNA with the military database, but I think (not entirely sure) the police need a court order and probable cause that the suspect has a military background to do that.

I was interested to learn from the articles that the whole "might be a cop" plot line was made up for the show. I did think there were a few points where the writers/directors tried to insert an agenda beyond the dramatic flow of the show and facts of the case. the one that bothered me the most was Toni Colette's rant about cops and domestic violence, which was purely for the audience, since her partner was surely aware of the same statistics she was quoting.

I have no problem with that rant as long as the citations are accurate.  Police officers have decades of shows and movies upholding the image of their drive to protect others and right wrongs. This movie did next to nothing to change that.

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On 9/19/2019 at 6:44 AM, tennisgurl said:

I guess I will give the detective who didn't believe Marie at least an ounce of credit, he did fess up immediately to what a mistake he made and didn't try to make excuses or anything for his shitty behavior.

He clearly didn't learn much from the experience; surprising Marie in an abandoned amusement park, AT NIGHT, was probably the worst approach possible.

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1 hour ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

He clearly didn't learn much from the experience; surprising Marie in an abandoned amusement park, AT NIGHT, was probably the worst approach possible.

I think that was made-for-TV drama. IIRC, according to the Pro Publica article, Marie received the letter notifying her that she'd been cleared, with the $500 check from the City, in the mail.

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If anybody needs more reason to hate the foster mom:

The True Stories Behind Unbelievable

The parallels between Elizabeth Marvel’s well-meaning foster mom Judith and Adler’s real-life foster parent Peggy Cunningham are undeniable. Adler was 16 when she became Cunningham’s first foster kid. As in the series, Cunningham and Marie’s transitional housing case manager were with Marie when police arrived after the rape, and she later shared her doubts about it with them. In 2016, she told “This American Life” that she regretted talking to the cops but still believed Marie “need[ed] to take responsibility” for her actions. “Some of the way that she was acting was part of the reason why it had the outcome that it did,” she said. “And I am not the only person that didn’t believe her.”

Fuuuuuuuuuck you, lady.

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Just finished this series last night, and WOW. Just WOW. Excellent acting, excellent writing, excellent directing. I'm glad me and the hubby sat through this because the first episode was painful to watch - not because it was done badly - but because of the realness of how rape victims are most often treated by the people who should be protecting them. 

I'm glad that WA detective got his day of reckoning. I read in the ProPublica story that the other detective had already retired by the time the CO detectives solved the crime, so it was only that one detective who met and apologized to Marie in real life. 

On 9/21/2019 at 10:59 AM, Grammaeryn said:

His bad cop speech to Karen deserved damning silence in response.

God, I was cheering that scene! Bad writing would have had TC tell him something like "It's ok, we drop the ball sometimes, etc..." Excellent writing was TC just standing there silent while shooting daggers with her eyes at that detective. 

Good juxtaposition too at detectives who great at their jobs vs. the ones who are not. Karen and Grace focused on gathering and gathering evidence even though most led to dead ends, never once doubting their victims. The bad cops at Lynwood focused on the victim and her inconsistencies rather than focusing on the bad guy. They focused on her because it was easier for their jobs, rather than do the hard work of catching  a bad guy with no easy evidence on sight. 

Speaking of which, whatever happened to Marie's rape kit? I don't think it was ever mentioned. The cop kept on looking at her pictures, but what about her rape kit report? Wouldn't that say something about her being assaulted?

Like most of you, the only thing missing in this finale was Marie confronting her foster parents. I too, would like to see some apology or realization from them of how badly they fucked this whole thing. Because of their "hunches", they damaged even more what is an already vulnerable psyche. 

I wonder if real life Marie was able to meet the two detectives who solved this case. 

I'm pissed the City of Lynwood got off easy on this case. They should have paid a lot more money, and Marie and her lawyer should have dragged their asses to the local media, press, TV, newspapers, etc. of how badly they fucked this case. And how culpable they were in the future rapes after hers. But God bless her, she has such a forgiving heart. 

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On 9/18/2019 at 11:44 PM, tennisgurl said:

What a great series! It was a hard watch, especially at the beginning, but it was also very important and had a really fulfilling pay off. It was great to see Marie finally get vindication and an apology and the knowledge that the man who raped her is in jail for the rest of his life and start to move on to rebuild her life. I just wish we had seen her stop by her foster moms (especially that terrible first one who went to the cops and started this whole thing!) and rub how wrong they were in their stupid faces, and demand apologizes from every asshole who treated her like crap, but I guess we cant get everything we want.

I guess I will give the detective who didnt believe Marie at least an once of credit, he did fess up immediately to what a mistake he made and didnt try to make excuses or anything for his shitty behavior. Its so frustrating that if they had just done jobs and investigated Maries case, they probably would have caught him years ago and none of the other rapes would have even happened! So much misery because of uncaring people. 

On 9/19/2019 at 4:16 PM, blixie said:

My big problem with him at least how it was portrayed here is when the other Washington rape happened and was similar to Marie's and that detective reached out the actor seemed to indicate a queasy guilty feeling like he knew he'd fucked up right then and there.  Also that was never really resolved and I assume that is one of the other rapes on the password locked hard drive. Like how long was he in Washington before he moved to Colorado? I can't remember if they said that perp took photographs, so maybe that is why they never even tried to connect them.

I think that after he learned about the similar rape, the detective should have had at least a small doubt and looked on the file.

I can't understand why the series make such series like Marie demanding an apology and the detective says "I am so sorry" - it doesn't cost nothing and mean a thing. Instead, the earlier scene where he came voluntarily and said what was honestly in his mind, was a bit better.     

Generally think that when somebody had made serious harm to another, it's not the actor who matters but the person who had been harmed. Instead of saying "I am sorry", he should listen to the other's feelings - by doing that he would really show, nor only say, that he really is sorry.  

On 9/19/2019 at 7:48 PM, laprin said:

I was frustrated by the foster mothers.  I know the police officers deservedly receive a lot of criticism, but the officers were pre-dispositioned not to believe Marie because of the comments of one of the foster mothers that called to express doubt about Marie's rape story.  I feel like she has been given a pass. 

The cops were professionals, so they shouldn't have suspected or believed anybody simply because they are. They should have continued their job and drawn their conclusions only after they had gone through all evidence. As the culprit said in the end - there was evidence left in Marie's room.

Plus, they were themselves angry at Marie, leaked her name to the press and asked for a charge against her. Even if she had lied, she was just a teenage girl and shouldn't have her life destroyed for it.  

On 9/25/2019 at 2:10 PM, maddie965 said:

The phone call from Marie to Wever killed me. When she says that she had lost all faith in humanity, but the two detectives restored it, and now she can see the world with hopeful eyes again

To me the scene was unnecessary suryp - in the movies or series one should never do "double work" by making actors say aloud something that is clear already, in this case by showing Marie's changed behavior.

Actually, the person who did most for Marie was the psychiatrist who believed her with any evidence, only because of her own story. The women cops never met Marie nor inverstigated her case and found the evidence by chance.

Also, I am afraid for Wever's daughter as she puts her work before them. I remember what one of the most liked fictional Finnish cops thought when he investigated a conman who lured women's money promising love, marriage and a manor house: that he was so much away from home because of his work that his daughters were in danger to grow up to women who, without their father's love, would long so much for love that they could easily become victims of a con men. 

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3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Actually, the person who did most for Marie was the psychiatrist who believed her with any evidence, only because of her own story. The women cops never met Marie nor inverstigated her case and found the evidence by chance.

That's a really interesting distinction I hadn't thought about. Because they were both doing two different things. The therapist really was the person who affirmed that Marie, personally, was believable and that what she went through wasn't fair. She was the one who dealt with what even Marie herself clearly saw as the bigger problem, the betrayals she experienced after the rape.

But then, maybe her phone call was partly because of the psychiatrist. She was trying to help her move forward in a world that seemed so against her, and the detectives helped with that because Marie believed (correctly) that they were genuinely trying to help people like her. They didn't know her personally and didn't set out to solve her crime, but because they believed other victims and were determined to solve their cases, they wound up solving Marie's case too and her life changed out of nowhere. So on one hand there was the therapist who was there for Marie herself, then there were also these coldly objective detectives who were trying to fight injustice in general, and that gave her comfort to know those people were out there somewhere.

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On 9/24/2019 at 7:41 PM, Rickster said:

Not necessarily, they could have just run into dead ends, as the cops in Colorado did until they got lucky with the license plate. The rapist was worried that the cops in Washington might have cross referenced his DNA with the military database, but I think (not entirely sure) the police need a court order and probable cause that the suspect has a military background to do that.

It was interesting to learn that the rapisti had left DNA. Was it on Marie's body or in her room or both? 

The detectives only discussed that there had been no "body fluids", i.e. that there had been no physical evidence of the rape or even consensual sex, so (having learned of the step mom's hints and her file in Child Custody) they made the conclusion that Marie was lying.

I would like to ask: would his DNA had really been enough for the verdict, if the police hadn't found his photos of Marie?      

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On 9/15/2019 at 7:18 PM, mjc570 said:

Wonderful series, with a very satisfying ending.  it did clear up one thing for me:  Why Marie accepted so little money (also:  no apology, no commitment to change things going forward) to settle her case when the city's conduct was so egregious - I do understand how she just wanted it to be over, so she could get on with her life.  I'm sure the lawyer, working I assume on contingency, was expecting a bigger pay out.  I sure hope she had good things happen in her life. 

I think my favorite moment was when the bad cop saw right through Grace's attempt to "pick him up" at the bar to get his DNA.  She did deserve his contempt, if not the spit. 

I kept thinking he would have/should have explained just how little money she would actually receive if she took the first offer (not even taking into account the taxes).  She probably could have gotten around $1 million.

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I binged while traveling and loved the series. I'll watch anything with the great Merritt Weaver, and she did not disappoint.

I found myself FFing through Marie's scenes, as the treatment she endured made me so mad I couldn't sleep. When my friend was raped, everyone blamed her for putting herself in an unsafe neighborhood. Family, police, friends.

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I lost my Saturday to this series. Truly excellent and a bit terrifying. I definitely made sure my doors were locked last night.

When this aired I thought I heard a lot of anti man talk but I thought this series did a good job of spreading the blame around and showing how people can be wrong but not evil. Remember it was Marie's foster moms who initially put the idea in the police's mind that she was lying.  And I can't blame them too much when she almost immediately rolled over and said she was. There is a certain segment of the population out there that fancy themselves smarter or investigators and they are always looking to see people as lying (so they can seem the super smart one).  A lot of such people are in law enforcement I think here that was the foster mom. 

One question I have and I am not sure... in my state typically they have a victim advocate that gets assigned almost immediately after a sexual crime.  There is one in the victim's corner in other states?  They are support and answer questions about the process. 

In terms of the settlement with the city I was kind of annoyed. Not only that she didn't get a ton of money but I thought it should have been explained to her that unless she made it *hurt* the city would never change their ways.  I can't help but notice that the two police forces with the female detectives seemed to have more money than where Marie was and I am sure that played in the pressure to have her crime solved. 

At the end when Marie thanked the detective I sort of felt the same. This is a real message to anyone who would try such a thing again that they will fail and they will spend 300 years in prison or (as is probably likely) be killed in prison. 

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I'm late to the party, as I just finished binge watching. Excellent series all-around! I loved the two detectives working together, but I have to say that Marie and her story were my favorite part.  I cried many times throughout my viewing experiencing. Kudos to all involved. 

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This series was amazing! I binged it all in one day which I rarely do. I also had no idea my hometown would be mentioned! I have lived in Lawrence, KS all my life and went to KU (University of Kansas) although it was a couple of years before the serial rapist was taking place but I vividly remember how terrifying a time it was. My mother worked at KU in Student Affairs and she spoke to several of the victims. She never game me details but I know it haunted her. She died a couple of years ago and I wish I could have shared this series with her. I have a vivid memory of her calling me every night during that time to make sure I got home and ensuring that all my doors and windows were locked. It’s something I do to this day. As far as I know the perpetrator has never been caught and I'm pretty sure the belief was he was active at K-State during that same time period. Scary as hell. 

I’m so glad that at least these victims got some justice though.

One nitpick though. Going to Kansas does not equate to traveling back in time to the 1950's!! WTH was with that diner scene?

Edited by sally-can-wait
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On 10/6/2019 at 9:05 AM, Roseanna said:

Also, I am afraid for Wever's daughter as she puts her work before them. I remember what one of the most liked fictional Finnish cops thought when he investigated a conman who lured women's money promising love, marriage and a manor house: that he was so much away from home because of his work that his daughters were in danger to grow up to women who, without their father's love, would long so much for love that they could easily become victims of a con men. 

I'm very late to this thread, as I just watched the series.  I just have to say that I think this is a very unfair comment about Karen.  Some women are so harsh on other women who work outside of the home.  And being a detective is not a simple 9 to 5 job.  Part of the reason Karen works so hard and stays so late at work is because she's haunted by the woman she didn't go back and check on early in her career.  She explained to Grace about a woman who had been abused by her husband but refused to go to the hospital.  Karen made a mental note to go by after her shift and check on the woman, but her colleagues convinced her to go out for drinks instead.  While she was out with them, the husband made bail, went home, and beat the crap out of his wife yet again, this time leaving her with permanent brain damage.  That had a profound effect on Karen, and that's why she works so hard.  Her children are obviously well loved and well taken care of.  I see nothing wrong with Karen trying to help girls and women who are in more vulnerable and less fortunate positions than her daughters.

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On 9/16/2019 at 2:06 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't think she deserves contempt for suspecting someone who actually committed violence against women to have committed violence against women. He should have a lot more contempt for himself for being violent with women then he should have for her for merely suspecting him of it. It sounds as if he suffered little to no consequences for his actions thus far (there was a file on him but I don't think he even lost his job) so for someone to suspect him of doing something in the same vein as he's done in the past is nothing compared to what he deserves.

I couldn't agree more.  She doesn't deserve any contempt for suspecting that scumbag.  He wasn't some random innocent guy that she was trying to trap.  He was a piece of shit with a file that showed he routinely abused women.  He should have been in jail long ago anyway, and he certainly shouldn't still be a cop.  The fact that he never faced any consequences for his behavior is appalling.  Grace is a much better person than I am, because had he spat on me I would have been the one going to jail for trying to break his neck.  Spitting in someone's face is disgusting and demeaning beyond words.  

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On 12/14/2019 at 7:44 AM, TheLotusFlower said:

I'm very late to this thread, as I just watched the series.  I just have to say that I think this is a very unfair comment about Karen.  Some women are so harsh on other women who work outside of the home.  And being a detective is not a simple 9 to 5 job.  Part of the reason Karen works so hard and stays so late at work is because she's haunted by the woman she didn't go back and check on early in her career.  She explained to Grace about a woman who had been abused by her husband but refused to go to the hospital.  Karen made a mental note to go by after her shift and check on the woman, but her colleagues convinced her to go out for drinks instead.  While she was out with them, the husband made bail, went home, and beat the crap out of his wife yet again, this time leaving her with permanent brain damage.  That had a profound effect on Karen, and that's why she works so hard.  Her children are obviously well loved and well taken care of.  I see nothing wrong with Karen trying to help girls and women who are in more vulnerable and less fortunate positions than her daughters.

Also their father seemed to be a very involved parent and available during the day.  It seemed like except for short periods there was always a parent taking care of the children.  Plus once they're asleep there is little point of being there.

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