S02.E10: In My Heels

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Quote

After a medical set back, Blanca struggles to reassemble the House of Evangelista. Meanwhile, Pray Tell confronts old traumas when an exciting new category is proposed.

Promo:

Original air date: 8/20/19

[Scarlett45]

Not sure what I think about the 8month flash forward. That’s a LONG TIME for Pray and Blanca to not speak, I guess that guy from the beach didn’t turn into anything (I still liked the previous episode). I can tell they set it up that way for 1. To celebrate mother’s day, 2. Show Everyone is doing well.

Why would that guy out Angel like that?!! What an asshole!! What reason would he have to betray someone in his community? Ms Ford was very kind to Angel, but her hands were tied, there isn’t anything she could’ve done if the clients wouldn’t book her. She did a forward thinking and decent thing giving Papi a space.  

Frederica getting her just desserts- she set a fire, people could’ve died. She cannot really claim the misogyny card at this moment, and no I don’t think she’s really sorry for what she did to Blanca. 

[SailorGirl]

I love that they had Billy Porter be awkward when trying to walk in the heels -- I was half expecting him to rock them, but that would have been too expected. How many performances of Kinky Boots did he do? Weren't those heels like 6 or 8 inches? 

Indya Moore just gets more and more gorgeous. That longer hair? Gorgeous! And how freakin' sweet is Lil' Papi -- I mean Esteban Martinez? He was definitely paying attention on all those shoots Angel went on -- building those contacts of the up-and-comers in the industry . . . he is no dummy, and I'm glad he's embracing it and taking risks -- he's got a natural gift for this talent management thing! He definitely sees a positive path forward for himself and Angel. 

And the proposal?!?!!!  OMG!!!  

Blanca looked the most gorgeous she's ever looked during her Candy's Sweet Refrain performance -- good lord. 

Did they film this episode before they knew they'd been renewed? Because this would have totally worked as a series finale. 

I. Love. This. Show. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by SailorGirl

[Scarlett45]

16 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Did they film this episode before they knew they'd been renewed? Because this would have totally worked as a series finale. 

I. Love. This. Show. 

I think so, because the season is done filming before it airs and renewal came one week after the season 2 premiere date. 

I love this show too!

The board doesn’t get a lot of traction during the off season, but I’ll keep sharing Instagram posts. 

[SimoneS]

I enjoyed the finale although I thought it was a bit too long. I was jamming because as usual, the music outstanding! A pun in honor of one of my favorite songs, "Outstanding" by The Gap Band.

I felt for Blanca, alone and ill. It was so sad when Pray Tell read her will. I loved that everyone came to stay with her in the hospital. Lots of love, but also having regular visitors improves you care in the hospital or any other health facility because they know people are watching. I loved Elektra fussing like a mother unable to admit her fear and worry about Blanca. It was in character. Never change, Elektra. She deserved to win Mother of the Year. 

I cheered when Damon showed up. He is right that Blanca saved him and that he would be in terrible place if she hadn't reached out to him. I am so glad that he is negative. I still don't like Pray having a romance with Ricky, but it isn't going away so I'll have to deal.

Poor Angel. It was only a matter of time though. Papi and Angel are always so intense, but I love them anyway. Papi is so in love with Angel. I hope she never breaks his heart because it might break him into pieces. I loved Ms. Ford taking him under her wing and Papi's determination to always tell the truth always. I think that Angel could get work in Europe. I noticed that Ford didn't seem surprised about Angel's secret. She knew.

I liked the MCs walking in ballroom.

ETA: I enjoyed seeing Fredricka locked up even if she was whining annoyingly.

Edited August 21, 2019 by SimoneS

[Irlandesa]

I'm dedicated to singledom but if a man like Lil Papi came into my world, I'd reconsider.  He was a rock star this season and I didn't realize how much I was rooting for the two of them as a couple until this episode.  Every scene they had made me so happy that I was worried the show was going to ruin it. 

It almost makes me nervous about the renewal because I fear what awaits them. 

I loved that they gave Patti Lupone one more fun scene this season.  I was cheering the words as much as I was cheering that she was behind bars.

If they had given Pray Tell and Ricky more scenes like this before they slept together, it might not have come off as so jarring but I thought they were well done in how he essentially reflected Pray's wisdom back on him.

The episode was long but it was so feel good and I love having that feeling.

[Coltee Gal]

All I’ve got to say is: “Come judge for me. Come judge for me”

I freaking love Elecktra 

[Scarlett45]

I wanted to say as much as I love this show for being uplifting and celebrating “family of choice”, I also love it for being realistic. Blanca having to go on disability would be a likely thing, though being a manicurist isn’t strenuous work (and she can set her hours) the chemicals cannot be good for her. She may be able to do a few manicures for pocket money but not every day. Her taking what she has and sharing it with those kids is very Blanca. 

[sereion]

I was so gutted for Angel when she got clocked....sometimes it be your own people. That Papi, though? He's a real one; I just love his drive and optimism. And they're getting married? Yay!!

Okay, I confess that I do like seeing Pray Tell and Ricky together. 

What happened to Adrian? I wanted more story development with him and Blanca.

Edited August 21, 2019 by sereion

[LittleIggy]

I’m over the moon that I had a big smile on my face when this episode ended. Blanca is the mother of the century! 

I couldn’t figure out why that dipshit outed Angel either. That women he told had a big smile on her face until he whispered in her ear. Bitch was perfectly pleased with Angel up to then. I wondered about going to Europe after Ms. Ford talked to Angel. Yeah, I 💕 love me some Papi, too.

The Ball was fabulous. Enjoyed it to pieces. I’m going to go crazy waiting for the next season! 

[SimoneS]

I forgot to mention that I loved Blanca's red lipstick in the final scenes. She looked lovely.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Fab send-off.

I can't choose in this moment which touching moment was my favorite.  So many to choose, ALL of them earned.  I teared up several times.  Damon's homecoming.  Esteban's declaration to Angel before the proposal(s).  The new urchins.  Each scene a gift.

Blanca belting out the Star Spangled Banner could not have been more on point.  Whitney's iconic Super Bowl performance had happened 3 months prior to that Ball.  My job allowed me to be pretty darn close to Houston as she gave that performance.  As brilliantly as Houston sang, Blanca's effort had more heart.

Frederica is truly insane.  

The emcee meeting was a hoot.  I note they did not agree to anything beyond the gesture, which was admittedly much fun.  

Full credit to TPTB for not evading the question about other houses which had to be competing all along.  I'd be happy to see more of them next season.  Of course, none of those mothers were gonna beat out Elektra!

THE CATEGORY IS>>>>BEST SEASON...Jidges?  THIS ONE!!!!!!!!  Credit to all involved.

[SimoneS]

Ms. Timid Tell. Bwah. Elektra is hilarious. Lamar deserved to win that split was insane.

Everyone dancing to "I'm Every Woman" with the confetti falling was so much fun.

I am so glad that Blanca has new children to raise. They are so young to be living on the streets. They need her. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by SimoneS

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Why would that guy out Angel like that?!! What an asshole!! What reason would he have to betray someone in his community?

I forgot to respond to this but he did it because he could.  While it'd be great if people who were bullied or marginalized would stand up for others in their shoes, so often the opposite happens.  They lash out at others to give themselves a feeling of superiority or power they're denied in other areas of their lives.

He had this "secret" and he felt like it gave him power over Angel.  He's the classic gossip that will use information that is none of their business as a way to get people to flock to him when they might not otherwise. And he's a total asshole for it.

I agree that Blanca looked amazing at the ball.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Irlandesa

[TrininisaScorp]

Ugh. How are we already at the season finale!  I love this show so very much!!

I really thought the asshole photographer was going to be who outed Angel.  They totally got me with it being a member of her own community. I get abuse of secret and power and being a step above someone "lower" than you, and all of that, but it was damn dirty.  

Color me surprised at Papi's ingenuity!  I love that he was hustling a plan, and worked it, even in the face of difficulty. 

The proposal in the club was the sweetest thing EVER!  How do they manage to make Papi so funny, yet so lovely and endearing.  Angel Curiel is the TRUTH.  Angel is incredibly beautiful; her longer hair looks amazing on her. 

The hallmark of this show for me is how skillfully they mix humor (Elektra and the heel lessons) with pain (where Pray's need to be perceived as masculine comes from).  I'm still not sold on Ricky/Pray, but I can accept it when they seem to be doing each other good.  Ricky going on tour with Paula Abdul in 1991 is such a huge deal.  

I appreciated Elektra as the MC and the ladies as the judges.  It was so much fun, and Dominque brings so much heart to her character. 

I was really worried about Blanca.  Her and Pray hugging it out was my favorite. You just know someone told him Blanca was doing poorly and he decided he needed to go over.   Her Candy's Sweet Refrain song KEELED ME DEAD.  OMG.  The emotion!  The outfit(s)!  The makeup!  10s across the boards, indeed. 

I was so happy to see Damon.  I wondered if he wouldn't come through for his mother, but I should have known better.  My heart!  While I find the actor to be the weakest spot in this lineup of outstanding, I thought he did a nice job this episode.  You could feel that Damon had truly grown up in the last 8 months away from the nest.

I'm happy to see the set-up of Blanca picking up new children who need her.  Many of your rightfully noted that this could have served as a series finale.  I am, however, glad they are coming back. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As much pride as both Blanca and Pray Tell have, I find it crazy that they went EIGHT MONTHS without speaking to each other.

I was disappointed to learn that Pray and Ricky were still a thing.

I loved Elektra teaching the MCs how to walk in heels. That whole "don't judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes" was really literal in this situation, but it was nice to see them begin to understand maybe one tenth of one percent of what the women deal with on a daily basis. Wearing heels is so low on the list of the female experience that it's just something we've learned to tolerate despite the discomfort and unnaturalness of it.

I was really worried that Angel was going to spiral and OD so I was really happy to see Papi, ahem, Esteban step up with a bold plan. They are just the cutest. Their simultaneous proposal was all kinds of adorable.

Despite her petty motivation, when she originally assembled House Wintour, Elektra did manage to seek out some very talented children and they won a lot so I can see why she won mother of the year.

I loved Blanca's performance - perfect choice for that time period within the context of the show and perfect choice for Blanca to show her lip sync skills without exhausting herself. She looked amazing too.

Damon really matured a lot during his time away. Part of me thinks it's kind of shitty to start a house in Europe knowing that you aren't going to stick around, but I appreciate that he found a way to create his own family while he was away.

Because the new urchins are so young (14), I suspect we will be getting another time jump when the next season begins.

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Because the new urchins are so young (14), I suspect we will be getting another time jump when the next season begins.

I think so too. At least another two years, likely to 1993 or after. 

5 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I forgot to respond to this but he did it because he could.  While it'd be great if people who were bullied or marginalized would stand up for others in their shoes, so often the opposite happens.  They lash out at others to give themselves a feeling of superiority or power they're denied in other areas of their lives.

He had this "secret" and he felt like it gave him power over Angel.  He's the classic gossip that will use information that is none of their business as a way to get people to flock to him when they might not otherwise. And he's a total asshole for it.

I agree that Blanca looked amazing at the ball.

You’re right, and intellectually I knew this, but DAMN. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think there was some envy involved too. In theory, you'd think that when someone from your very marginalized community gets some success, everyone would be happy for them but sadly, that's not true. There will always be people who are jealous that someone else got some kind of prize/reward/recognition instead of them (even if it's something that they would never be able to do or had no interest in doing). Those are the petty bitches who would do something like out Angel despite having no beef with her.

[Ohwell]

I enjoyed the hell  out of this, although I did think it was too long and a bit overwrought.

The best moments for me:  1) Damon's return.  I like how he's matured and that he and Ricky have made peace with each other.  I did have a feeling though that if Damon had asked him to go back to Paris with him, he would have packed up his shit and left Pray Tell and the Paula Abdul tour in a heartbeat.  2)  the scene with Blanca, Pray Tell and the urchins at the end.  

I love Papi's and Angel's relationship, but I still fear that Angel will somehow break his heart.  This relationship just seems too good to be true.  This episode was so positive and upbeat that I was waiting for the other shoe to drop at the end, and there would be news that they both died in the plane crash on their happy way to Germany. 

[Guest]

Seconding the mixed emotions about the second time jump. Feels like we've skipped more time than we've covered!

I LOVE PAPI. Angel B. Curiel is everything. He's one of the most adept young actors I've seen at portraying not only the full spectrum of emotion (love his flustered smile when the girls were talking about doing porn at the pier), but with such nuance and softness. The way his face trembled with emotion as he waited for Angel to propose...omg. And for once Angel got a sappy monologue about him! I also feel like Papi's enthusiastic "FUCK YEAH!" was improvised (hilarious) as well as Indya's choice to quickly stroke Angel's (the actor's) cheek when they saw how emotional he was getting during the proposal. Little details like that make this couple shine. I love them so, so much. That was my favorite TV engagement ever, easily. And now Papi has his own career beyond being Angel's emotional support boyfriend!

I actually liked mature Damon? Seems like he aged about 10 years overnight, wardrobe included. Not sure I buy him suddenly being a house father (abroad no less), but good for him.

Weird seeing Blanca's "kids" go from 5-7 years younger than her to actual kids. Interesting choice to take on two 14-year-olds with your health visibly failing. Does that mean next season will jump to 1995 so the new crop will be legal? Pray and Blanca will be dead by the premiere with this wonky timeline!

[Luckylyn]

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I forgot to respond to this but he did it because he could.  While it'd be great if people who were bullied or marginalized would stand up for others in their shoes, so often the opposite happens.  They lash out at others to give themselves a feeling of superiority or power they're denied in other areas of their lives.

He had this "secret" and he felt like it gave him power over Angel.  He's the classic gossip that will use information that is none of their business as a way to get people to flock to him when they might not otherwise. And he's a total asshole for it.

I agree that Blanca looked amazing at the ball.

He was going on about the shoot being like Sophia Loren, and she interrupted him to say it’s just pantyhose.  It was a mild comment but his face changed after she said it.  That’s when he made a point of telling her he knew her secret and started blabbing.  He completely overreacted because he felt she was acting superior and her wanted to bring her down to make himself feel superior.   It was such a horrible thing for him to do. 

[RealReality]

I'm recovering from eye surgery and I had to keep pausing to keep myself from crying.  

Damn this show!  Angel and papi are just adorable and could they find kids who were any cuter at the end?  

Can I love eleckra anymore than I did last week.....yes I can!

19 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Why would that guy out Angel like that?!! What an asshole!! What reason would he have to betray someone in his community? Ms Ford was very kind to Angel, but her hands were tied, there isn’t anything she could’ve done if the clients wouldn’t book her. She did a forward thinking and decent thing giving Papi a space.  

I got the feeling that it might have been the creepy photographer but angel thought it was that guy at the shoot because he said something. 

It feels super mean spirited, but sometimes people can be like crabs in a barrel.  I'm surprised it didn't get out sooner.  

[eejm]

Is it weird that I want to swaddle Papi, rock him, and pinch his cheeks?  That's not weird, is it?

Edited August 22, 2019 by eejm

[sugarbaker design]

Good season finale with exceptional moments:  two-sided proposal, the Dreams, Elektra at the podium, House of Evangelista:  New Class!

Unpopular opinion:  It was a huge mistake to kill off Candy.  Her ghost scenes fall flat, and that episode with her funeral was the weakest.  It would've been comedy gold and perfect karma if Candy was at the ball throwing shade at a bewigged and wobbly Pray Tell.

[mtlchick]

That's a lot of time jumping.  

Elecktra was GOLD.  Her heel walking lesson and her turn at MC was perfect.  And even though she's had her issues with Blanca, she still loves her "daughter" which almost made me cry.

Angel and Papi's engagement DID make me cry.  I'm scared what will happen, but those two are lovely.  And I love that Papi used his hustling skills in a good way to better his life, hers and probably a lot of others. 

Not sure about Damon being a house father, but he's definitely matured.

Next stop...Emmys! 

[Ohwell]

9 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Unpopular opinion:  It was a huge mistake to kill off Candy.  Her ghost scenes fall flat, and that episode with her funeral was the weakest.  It would've been comedy gold and perfect karma if Candy was at the ball throwing shade at a bewigged and wobbly Pray Tell.

Yes!

[Surrealist]

10 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I did have a feeling though that if Damon had asked him to go back to Paris with him, he would have packed up his shit and left Pray Tell and the Paula Abdul tour in a heartbeat. 

I thought the same. I could tell Ricky is still in love with Damon. If Damon had expressed mutual feelings, Pray Tell would have become the dream that once was. 

[tennisgurl]

I love this show so much, I dont want the season to be over! This could be a really good series finale, but I am thrilled that there will be more after this. 

I agree with many others that the time jumps are getting to be a bit much. I was happy in the 80s last season, but with all of these time jumps, next season it will be 2003! 

The mutual proposal between Angel and Papi made me straight up swoon! Those two crazy kids are gonna make it work! Even after that jealous bitter piece of crap crab in a barrel tried to drag Angel down by outing her, she and Papi arent done yet! The two of them are so cute, and they just work so well together, and the actors have amazing chemistry. I am so proud of Papi he has come so far from last season, going from an angry drug dealer to using his hustle skills for good, and becoming a talent manager! I mean, if anyone will go on to tell Blanca's story once she is gone, it probably really would be him.

Angel is lucky that the first person she met on her first day applying to be a model was Mrs. Ford, she seems like a really decent person and a great mentor to have in the fashion world. 

So Pray and Ricky continue to be a thing? I still dont like it, but it does seem like something real, so its good that they didn't throw their family into turmoil over a fling. At least Pray and Blanca made up. 

On the other hand, Elektra teaching the men to walk in heels, and then some of the ladies judging their walk were everything! I am going to need to watch those scenes about thirty times over, I dont see it ever getting old. Although really, if ghost Candy was every going to show up, I would have guessed it would have been to laugh at Pray struggling in heel from beyond the grave.

[AgentRXS]

Blanca's performance at the ball was everything. I can't stop watching it. I kind of love, that in this day and age, the show had a trans POC perform the national anthem at the ball. It was really one of the show's best moments of the series.

I loved seeing Mr. Kinky Boots Porter pretend that he's never worn heels. That was fantastic. I love that the show is talking about how black gay men come to terms with their masculinity and sexuality.

I watch too much TV so I really thought Blanca was a goner, and they were going to reboot the series next season. I am so glad she made it and has new kids to tend to.

Edited August 22, 2019 by AgentRXS

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Every time one of the characters states the obvious (that Papi is THE BEST), I'm worried that he's going to get hit by a truck or a refrigerator is going to fall on him. Stay alive, Papi!

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Every time one of the characters states the obvious (that Papi is THE BEST), I'm worried that he's going to get hit by a truck or a refrigerator is going to fall on him. Stay alive, Papi!

Me too, I'm there with the poster who was scared there was going to be a plane crash on the flight to Berlin.  I've been conditioned to expect the next shoe to drop, but I'm glad that the season ended on a somewhat happy note.   

On another note....I thought Ricky might have made up the Paula Abdul tour to impress Damon.  He is still a fantastic dancer and he looks healthy and fit but that seemed to come out of the blue.

[Liquid6]

Unpopular Opinion....I don’t like “Fem Ricky”. His masculinity is/was his best asset. 

[Blakeston]

I take it Chilly (the 14-year-old girl at the end) is trans, right?

I'm sorry, but it feels like they're outright trolling us at this point with all of these conventionally gorgeous, impossible-to-clock trans women. How did a homeless 14-year-old get access to puberty blockers and female hormones in 1991?

I realize a lot of people are probably sick of all the complaining about how pretty and femme the characters are. But it's a huge issue in the trans community that trans women who are "obvious," and don't fit conventional beauty standards, are basically erased and made to feel worthless.

This show is co-opting their issues (like not being able to eat at restaurants without small-minded idiots complaining about their presence - which would rarely be a problem for the Angels and Lulus of the world), while still treating them like they're too hideous to be shown to the public.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Blakeston

[Popples]

10 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

It would've been comedy gold and perfect karma if Candy was at the ball throwing shade at a bewigged and wobbly Pray Tell.

YESSSSSSSSS! Plus it would have made much more sense for her to be the one who gave Pray the lower score with the "payback's a bitch" line than Kiki Pendavis. They've shown us Pray and Candy go at it; we've never seen it with Kiki.

[ClareWalks]

I have been singing "COME JUDGE FUH ME" for days.

[SeeMyDaintyPaws]

24 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I have been singing "COME JUDGE FUH ME" for days.

Me too!! And saying “Damn skippy” LOL Electra is the best 

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I take it Chilly (the 14-year-old girl at the end) is trans, right?

I'm sorry, but it feels like they're outright trolling us at this point with all of these conventionally gorgeous, impossible-to-clock trans women. How did a homeless 14-year-old get access to puberty blockers and female hormones in 1991?

I realize a lot of people are probably sick of all the complaining about how pretty and femme the characters are. But it's a huge issue in the trans community that trans women who are "obvious," and don't fit conventional beauty standards, are basically erased and made to feel worthless.

This show is co-opting their issues (like not being able to eat at restaurants without small-minded idiots complaining about their presence - which would rarely be a problem for the Angels and Lulus of the world), while still treating them like they're too hideous to be shown to the public.

I didn’t interpret that Chilly was supposed to be trans, I thought they were just homeless kids (maybe kicked out of a foster home?). I could be wrong though. 

To the rest of your point I certainly understand where you are coming from. 

[HorrrGoodnight]

If Pose were a relationship status it would be "It's Complicated". Again, I don't know how to feel! I did enjoy the finale but not sure about the time warp. Ricky is already a House Father with 3 children in Paris?? I've heard that LGBTQ time moves quickly,  but damn.  I figured Blanca would start doing nails at home, especially with the empty nest but I guess she won't be doing it next season considering her health. Elektra as an MC was nice. I dare say she is softening up a little. In conclusion, the lip synching vibrato was EVERYTHING!! 

[eejm]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I take it Chilly (the 14-year-old girl at the end) is trans, right?

I'm sorry, but it feels like they're outright trolling us at this point with all of these conventionally gorgeous, impossible-to-clock trans women. How did a homeless 14-year-old get access to puberty blockers and female hormones in 1991?

I realize a lot of people are probably sick of all the complaining about how pretty and femme the characters are. But it's a huge issue in the trans community that trans women who are "obvious," and don't fit conventional beauty standards, are basically erased and made to feel worthless.

This show is co-opting their issues (like not being able to eat at restaurants without small-minded idiots complaining about their presence - which would rarely be a problem for the Angels and Lulus of the world), while still treating them like they're too hideous to be shown to the public.

It’s possible that Chilly may just look very feminine.  Caroline Cossey - who modeled under the name ‘Tula’ and mentioned by Angel during the finale - claimed she never looked masculine.  It was later discovered that her genotype is XXXY rather than XY, which may explain her feminine appearance.  The first American to have gender alignment surgery, Christine Jorgensen, also claimed that she had always been feminine in appearance as well, although I don’t know if her genotype had anything to do with it.  Chilly might be simply be in the same position and not necessarily have had hormone therapy.

Edited August 22, 2019 by eejm

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didn’t interpret that Chilly was supposed to be trans, I thought they were just homeless kids (maybe kicked out of a foster home?). I could be wrong though. 

To the rest of your point I certainly understand where you are coming from. 

I think chilly was trans.  I thought the other little boy said that her name was Charles or charlie but she went by chilly.

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I take it Chilly (the 14-year-old girl at the end) is trans, right?

I'm sorry, but it feels like they're outright trolling us at this point with all of these conventionally gorgeous, impossible-to-clock trans women. How did a homeless 14-year-old get access to puberty blockers and female hormones in 1991?

I realize a lot of people are probably sick of all the complaining about how pretty and femme the characters are. But it's a huge issue in the trans community that trans women who are "obvious," and don't fit conventional beauty standards, are basically erased and made to feel worthless.

This show is co-opting their issues (like not being able to eat at restaurants without small-minded idiots complaining about their presence - which would rarely be a problem for the Angels and Lulus of the world), while still treating them like they're too hideous to be shown to the public.

I'm so sorry.  I totally understand and can appreciated the frustration, which is probably made worse by everyone basically telling these trans women to "get over it" or that it's "for the greater good"

I don't know what to say because I do love the fabulous glamour and beauty of the show.  

Do you think the community would be better served if the characters looked rougher?  I'm not sure it would get the same acclaim and acceptance it is getting now, but maybe a community wouldn't feel marginalized.  

Maybe if chilly was a little more masculine and we had to navigate her struggles?

4 hours ago, SeeMyDaintyPaws said:

Me too!! And saying “Damn skippy” LOL Electra is the best 

Yes...yes she is....I can't help but love her...even when I know I'm supposed to hate her.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Unpopular opinion:  It was a huge mistake to kill off Candy.  Her ghost scenes fall flat, and that episode with her funeral was the weakest. 

Overall, I think Candy's character arc was the wobbliest, especially the highly questionable decision to try to force a character arc postmortem. She wasn't that important or significant when she was alive, and if anything was kind of a one-dimensional mustache twirling villain that just kind of sucked up air whenever they needed some sort of antagonist. Then suddenly she dies and she's a beloved martyr. Not only did she magically become everyone's best friend or beloved sidekick through revisionist history, but the rest of the cast was apparently so stricken that they all continued to hallucinate her for months on end. It's very clunky and I don't buy it. I think it was just a case of the writers and cast really liking the actress and trying to make her relevant as much as possible, but it just didn't work with the character.

15 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I thought the same. I could tell Ricky is still in love with Damon. If Damon had expressed mutual feelings, Pray Tell would have become the dream that once was. 

I was surprised Pray and Ricky are still together nine months later. That "incest" scandal sure evaporated quickly! How convenient that everyone judging them immediately drifted away from the ball scene. The infatuation seemed almost exclusively sexual on both sides, so I would've thought that would've naturally fallen apart after a few weeks. 

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didn’t interpret that Chilly was supposed to be trans, I thought they were just homeless kids (maybe kicked out of a foster home?). I could be wrong though.

The boy introduced her to Blanca as Chris, which she immediately corrected to Chilly, so yes, it would seem she's apparently trans. But I agree with @Blakeston, she was definitely a 2019 trans girl. It's the thing to do now to immediately put trans kids on puberty blockers at 10/11, which is great, but as far as I know it's only been widespread practice for the last five years or so (Jazz Jennings being the first well-known public case), so that was painfully inaccurate for an inner-city kid in 1991. If you watch the last season of I Am Jazz, the new standard is definitely reflected - whereas her trans peers and trans adults often express wonder and sometimes envy that Jazz was able to avoid male puberty so effectively, when she's speaking to younger teens in the last few episodes, all of them are very clearly on hormone blockers and would pass without a second thought. On one hand, that's wonderful that it's been normalized and that those kids won't have to go through the same mental anguish, but on the other hand, it unsurprisingly continues to stratify beauty standards and ability to pass along socioeconomic and racial lines. Even among people in their mid-late 20s, puberty blockers weren't common, but there's a huge shift with trans girls under 21 (think Jazz Jennings and Hunter Schafer), so passing is going to become increasingly dictated by increasingly early access to costly resources, not to mention favoring those with liberal and accepting parents, in addition to the luck of the draw of having features naturally perceived as more feminine.

ETA: So even though 2019 beauty standards are inevitable in media, it's getting a little ridiculous to pretend that all these runway-ready actresses supposedly face the same struggles as average trans folks living on the margins, especially re: being outed.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Guest

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, eejm said:

It’s possible that Chilly may just look very feminine.  Caroline Cossey - who modeled under the name ‘Tula’ and mentioned by Angel during the finale - claimed she never looked masculine.  It was later discovered that her genotype is XXXY rather than XY, which may explain her feminine appearance.  The first American to have gender alignment surgery, Christine Jorgensen, also claimed that she had always been feminine in appearance as well, although I don’t know if her genotype had anything to do with it.  Chilly might be simply be in the same position and not necessarily have had hormone therapy.

If they reveal that she's intersex, that would make her appearance a lot more plausible. But I'll still be irritated that they're choosing only to focus on the most femme-looking trans women out there.

 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Do you think the community would be better served if the characters looked rougher?  I'm not sure it would get the same acclaim and acceptance it is getting now, but maybe a community wouldn't feel marginalized.  

I'd just like to see a character or two who actually looks the way that most trans women looked in the late '80s/early '90s. They don't have to be major characters. Just some kind of representation.

 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

The boy introduced her to Blanca as Chris, which she immediately corrected to Chilly, so yes, it would seem she's apparently trans.

Also, it turns out the actress (Gia Parr) is a trans activist.

I get the impression that Ryan Murphy is using this show to say, "See how beautiful trans women are? They're all woman - just look at them!" And if that what he's going for, his heart is in the right place, but that's not really the best way to argue for equality.

[Scarlett45]

@SnarkEnthusiast thanks for the explanation- I heard the “Chris” but thought of that as a unisex name so it didn’t register. Yes- transitioning before puberty has only become a RECENT luxury for very affluent kids from certain families (like Jazz). My friend’s wife is trans (lesbian couple) and she’s in her late 30s, her family was very supportive but she wasn’t able to transition until college (so approximately 20years ago).

Maybe Chilly will be trans and intersex (or either one). 

[Angelsmom1009]

So much to unpack this episode, but so good. It definitely would have worked as a series finale (as did season 1’s finale did) but I think they found out while season 2 was airing that they were granted a season 3. So it makes sense. Blanca’s performance at the ball gave me goosebumps, and MJ Rodriguez looked amazing. The outfit, the lipstick, and she has the most amazing legs. Her acting was superb and she has improved leaps and bounds. My heart still aches for her because I know her time is coming to an end, and I’m reminded of literally how an nearly entire generation of people was wiped out by AIDS. I hope her and Pray are the few that manage to make it through the 90s relatively healthy.

Speaking of Pray, color me surprised that him and Ricky are still an item. I’m still not really into them as a couple but I liked their conversation on the stairs. If anything it Illustrated what they offered to each other. I agree that if Damon showed any interest in Ricky, he’d be on the first thing smokin to Paris, though. Oh and Ricky’s boots were fabulous! I loved the young boys and the MCs walking in the ball in those heels. Especially Billy Porter toddling across the stage. It would have been even better if they put him in some Kinky Boots type platforms 😁

I started this series somewhat liking Elektra. Now I fucking love her. Her character has definitely grown, and you can see her further solidify her “icon” status in her community. I loved her walking lessons and her hosting the ball. She’s definitely softened a bit but I’m sure it’s because she has found a new level of confidence because of all of the life changes she’s been through...her reassignment surgery, being able to support her fabulous lifestyle on her own dime and not a sugar daddy’s or working at Show World...I hope we explore her and her past more in season three.

Angel and Papi...ugh, young love, there’s nothing more consuming and fiery. I love Papi using his hustling skills to become a talent manager and not only trying to help Angel but help others in their community. It sucks that Angel got clocked but I’m honestly not surprised. Part jealousy and part stepping on your peers to elevate yourself. Either way, I love these two kids and I hope they stay clean and continue to grow.

Re: the ability for the actors on this show to pass or not...it’s such a broad and complicated subject, but here are my thoughts: for one thing, like someone said, Hollywood loves the pretty, and considering this show is the first ever featuring openly-trans actors in the lead class, I’m sure it was a conscious choice to “ease” the mainstream into the concept. Plus I think if they used more “masculine” trans actors,  they’d be accused of throwing wigs on some men and making fun of trans women. And really, it’s less about the actors and more just illustrate to the audience the very real fear of being “clocked” no matter how feminine you look. Because in the light of day, a shifted tuck, a deep enough voice, or just plain old ignorance and assumptions can blow your cover quickly. and as we’ve seen this year in the news, can have deadly consequences. Overall, this show is in its infancy and has room to grow. More masculine looking trans women as lead characters, trans men, non binary characters, etc may be coming. We have to give it a chance to bloom.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Angelsmom1009
More thoughts

[gatopretoNYC]

On 8/20/2019 at 11:26 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I think so, because the season is done filming before it airs and renewal came one week after the season 2 premiere date. 

Actually, it isn't. They have filmed a few times in areas I know, and to my great surprise, those scenes have aired only weeks later. The diner scenes with the ladies are done just across the street from me, and I saw signs in Tribeca for the scenes that turned out to be outside Elektra's apartment - those were in the last two episodes, and were filmed August 5th.

Maybe they shoot all the indoor stuff first and do all the location stuff at the end?

I also love this show! 

[Scarlett45]

29 minutes ago, gatopretoNYC said:

Actually, it isn't. They have filmed a few times in areas I know, and to my great surprise, those scenes have aired only weeks later. The diner scenes with the ladies are done just across the street from me, and I saw signs in Tribeca for the scenes that turned out to be outside Elektra's apartment - those were in the last two episodes, and were filmed August 5th.

Maybe they shoot all the indoor stuff first and do all the location stuff at the end?

I also love this show! 

Oh thanks! I was WRONG. I thought they finished filming several months ago. Did you get to see anyone during filming?

It is likely indoor scenes get done on the soundstage and then exterior scenes are filmed later. 

[RealReality]

Maybe next season Blanca can adopt a daughter who looks a little rougher?  I still think that given the glamour of this show she would blossom into a beauty, but it may give us the chance to see the negativity and hate for someone who doesn't pass and doesn't look like they pass.

We can also have so many Electra lessons....walking, makeup, standing, tablecloth pulling, how to find a random glass of pink lemonade when you're ready to vandalize someone's house.....

[12catcrazy]

Oh my gosh, I so love this show!  Great season finale which would've even made a great show ending.  And I too have grown to totally love Elektra - she gets the best lines and she turned out to have a heart of gold underneath those fab fashions.  

I love all the little comic relief touches like the Council in the diner being fun, and bitchy and witty, and I loved Elektra's high heel shoes walking class (I'd hate to see what she'd tell me - and yeah, I usually wear - the shame! - clogs).  

Blanca looked gorgeous (and amazing how truly bad she looked in the hospital).  My only nitpick there is I don't think that lipstick color was available in 1991 (metallic red lipstick is my thing, and has been since the 70s) but Blanca rocked whatever color it was, and her hair looked great as well.  

Can't wait until this show comes back.  Elementary is gone, Instinct is gone, at least this gives me something to look forward to.  

[Gummo]

This show!

Just ... damn.

This show.

[12catcrazy]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

If they reveal that she's intersex, that would make her appearance a lot more plausible. But I'll still be irritated that they're choosing only to focus on the most femme-looking trans women out there.

 I'd just like to see a character or two who actually looks the way that most trans women looked in the late '80s/early '90s. They don't have to be major characters. Just some kind of representation.

Here is my story about meeting a Trans woman in the early 90s.   I was early in a relationship with my now-ex, Bob.   He told me he had a friend who was married to a woman who was originally a man (almost his exact words if I recall).  He said that his friend told him that his wife had surgery and was anatomically a woman - the guy told Bob that "you wouldn't be able to tell the difference".  He didn't tell me the names of either his friend or the guy's wife.    

So flash forward a good six months and  Bob told me he had to go over somebody's house and help the guy out with some project.  I decided to tag along and Bob told me that I probably wouldn't like the guy's wife as she was "Very Long Island".   I shrugged and figured, living on Long Island, what the hell.    So we get to the house and the wife meets us at the door and she's in the middle of chores and not overly friendly.   We chatted a couple of minutes and I wound up spending time with the guys.    When we left the house, I turned and said to Bob,  "Zelda (not real name) isn't Long Island, she's East Village Drag Queen!".  I asked Bob if this friend was the one married to the Trans Woman and he was very surprised that I caught it.  He asked me how I knew, and I rolled my eyes and said that for one, Zelda's boobs were in the wrong place, and Zelda had an Adam's apple that biological women do not have, not to mention larger hands and feet that a bio woman of that size and build would have, and a deeper voice.  Zelda wasn't feminine looking At All and all I could think is that  whatever surgery Zelda was able to afford, maybe changed the "down there" parts but no savvy person was going to look at Zelda and think, "Oh what a beautiful woman!".    And maybe that was more the case for many Trans women in the early 90s.    I guess some had a more natural feminine look and others - well, I guess your body looks like a man even if you feel you are really a woman.  And if that's the case, you do the best you can with what you have.  

And while I'm thinking early 1990s - I think that Trans women got some notice when the movie The Crying Game came out.   I think it was 1992 and there was a "shocking" twist and everybody was supposed to keep it to themselves as to not spoil the surprise.  If I correctly recall, the actor in the "twist" part got an awful lot of press and while he was openly gay, I don't think he identified with being Transgender.