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S05.E04: Ship Outta Luck

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I'm pretty sure that I've never liked a prison episode (or episodes) of any show I've ever watched.  So there's that. 

I did like the New Lucy/New-cy scenes. And Zeph waking up Turin and Pree.  I guess it wasn't a total waste of time.   

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Yay, to Zeph leaving a video in case she ever lost her memory, and now not only is she back to normal, but brings back both Turin and Pree!  That should be a fun trio, right there.  Hopefully they'll eventually bring Fancy into the fold.  And, of course, Gared, although I understand why they might want to keep him in the dark for now.  Still, poor Pree.  I did love that they revealed Turin being cured by him naturally snarling "God dammit!", in the way only he/Patrick Garrow can!

So, Dutch, D'Avin, and John (or Team Awesome Force, I believe) are basically stuck doing their own version of Prison Break, if they were ever stuck in the space prison from Guardians of the Galaxy.  I hope they don't drag it out for too long, but I'm curious to see how this will all go down.  Can't remember this Corin character and which season he was on.  Fun as always playing"Hey, it's that Canadian based actress/actor!" again, with Anastasia Phillips (Reign) as the hitwoman and Rachael Ancheril (Rookie Blue, Star Trek: Discovery) as the warden.

Aww, Lucy is kind of back, but she's "Newcy" now and doesn't remember her past relationships.  I did laugh at her calling John Sean/Shawn, due to the whole Aaron Ashmore's twin being Shawn in real life.

The Lady is clearly losing her shit, I see.  But Khylen keeps managing to mainly avoid her wrath.  Smart man.  Still hope he's working some angle against her.

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30 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Dutch, D'Avin, and John (or Team Awesome Force, I believe) are basically stuck doing their own version of Prison Break, if they were ever stuck in the space prison from Guardians of the Galaxy.  I hope they don't drag it out for too long, but I'm curious to see how this will all go down.

Dutch will end up running the prison and have an army of the most ruthless soldiers ever.

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Well, I'm also not a fan of prison episodes but I enjoyed the Warden (who I also remembered from 'Rookie Blue') and her kickass outfit. I wish they could have recruited Calvert - she was badass and managed to keep up not just with the blows but also the quips. And finally add me to the list of those not remembering Coren but I guess he'll be toast soon now so it hardly matters anymore.

Other than that Team B (Team Smellforce?) was more entertaining and I wish they had been given more scenes. Zeph was great in all her scenes but getting back Turin ('I've missed you angry ginger') and his reaction were my favorites.

Team Awesomeforce is still struggling with fake memory PTSD and I'm glad they acknowledged that. But I'm also worried about Johnny. 

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I did laugh at her calling John Sean/Shawn, due to the whole Aaron Ashmore's twin being Shawn in real life.

Good catch!

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I still don't understand how the green goo and the hullen have anything to do with the lady and her scorpion babies.

The hullen had no emotions and were virtually indestructible. The lady can't keep her emotions in check and her brood is very vulnerable.

What does this season have to do with the previous ones? The story makes no sense to me. I'm starting to not care about this show, and I really don't want that to happen.

I'm sorry to be such a downer. I don't understand what is happening to this show. 😨

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7 hours ago, Catfi9ht said:

I still don't understand how the green goo and the hullen have anything to do with the lady and her scorpion babies.

It is confusing.  We thought Aneela and the Hullen were the big bads until it turned out that Aneela was pretty much a prisoner herself and the Lady was behind it all.  I'm not sure exactly but since she controlled the Green, I think the Hullen were kind of an advance force, as the Lady tried to figure out how to emerge into our universe and control it. That's where it gets fuzzy because she's here now and the green is supposedly dead, so I'm not sure how the Hullen figure into it anymore. Or even if they do.  Maybe when it's all over I'll do a complete rewatch. 

Honestly, I just roll with it at this point. :-) 

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I enjoyed it. There were some fun moments. Plus we got Nucy & Shawn plus confirmation that Lucy is the love of John's life. I am wondering when John is going to talk about his feelings cause he is definitely the one still most affected by the mass delusion. Dutch & D'av seem to have mostly put it behind them and moved forward (and forward together) but John is obviously struggling. 

Turin's goddamnits as he got his memories back was golden. 

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Johnny's "You guys take this one (cell)." and later, "It's just us now, Newcy", at the end was just heart-shattering.  Ugh.  As far as The Lady trying/needing to break him, I'd say the job is not all that far from being done.

And since they dragged it into this newest episode - Johnny's still being awkward around Dutch and D'avin thinking there's something actually there between J & D - there's no doubt (IMO) that it's definitely Dutch that Johnny's hung up on with the false memories and not just the concept of an actual marriage. 

Which is, again, ship-baiting and its turned the show a bit into a soap opera.  And as much of a D/J fanon enthusiast as I am, this false fronting SO shit can take a long hike off a short cliff.


So, I don't think I am understanding something....  The Lady 'showed' Dutch a possible future of a Johnny that's been "jacked" and is a human!robot who doesn't even remember who he is, when he kills everyone in The Royale.  Was that as a 'Six' or as one of her race?  Because as shown in this episode, even she can't control the "weakness" of keeping human emotions under control.   And if its as a 'Six', where's the green/Hullen coming from to do that to him??

I have to agree with @MissLucas, that the scenes with 'TAS', were just as good if not better than the bulk of the time spent with 'TAF'.  The TAS scenes were a lot easier to stomach, in a lot of respects.  Not to mention felt like they advanced the plot a lot more than TAF's shenanigans did.

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On 8/10/2019 at 3:18 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I did laugh at her calling John Sean/Shawn, due to the whole Aaron Ashmore's twin being Shawn in real life.

Good catch!

Of course Turin comes back with a big angry "Goddamnit!" in the way that only he can! Thrilled that Zeph, Turin, and Pree are all back and working together against The Lady on Westerly, thats a great team up. I especially loved how offended Turin was that Pree in his fake memories was running the local RAC, and Pree was offended that he was really good at it! Poor Pree just wants his husband back though, even if I get why they want to still keep Gared in the dark. I just hope they can be reunited soon. 

Meanwhile, Team Awesome Force are in the middle of a prison break, while also trying to deal with everything that has happened, especially their false memories and losing Lucy. Interesting that Dutch seems to be worried about Johnny losing Lucy, while D'Avin is worried that Johnny is messed up over his fake marriage to Dutch. I think that reflects a real blindspot in Dutch about Johnny and his feelings towards her, that she really isnt ready to deal with. Poor Johnny, him sitting alone in the cell with Newcy saying how it was "just the two of them" hurt my heart. I just dont know how he gets a happy ending in all of this, unless he can get over Dutch and his memories of a life he can never have and move on. I hope he doesn't end up leaving Dutch and D'Avin to be  on his own, that somehow seems even sadder than him feeling like a third wheel. I might ship Dutch and Johnny, but I just want everyone to be happy.

At least he has a version of Lucy back, even if its one that doesn't know him. 

I give Dutch about three days before she is running that prison and has a new fighting force against The Lady and her evil spawns. I think that they can probably ally with the Warden, she seems interesting, and I love her outfits. What can I say?

From what I understand, the Lady created the Hullen as a sort of scouting force for her and her spawn, or as an experiment in taking over human bodies, and she will eventually use them to help take over the quad so that she and her people can use humans as hosts. Or something anyway, hopefully everything will be properly explained by the ending. With this show, I just roll with it!

Edited by tennisgurl
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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Interesting that Dutch seems to be worried about Johnny losing Lucy, while D'Avin is worried that Johnny is messed up over his fake marriage to Dutch. I think that reflects a real blindspot in Dutch about Johnny and his feelings towards her, that she really isnt ready to deal with. Poor Johnny, him sitting alone in the cell with Newcy saying how it was "just the two of them" hurt my heart. I just dont know how he gets a happy ending in all of this, unless he can get over Dutch and his memories of a life he can never have and move on. I hope he doesn't end up leaving Dutch and D'Avin to be  on his own, that somehow seems even sadder than him feeling like a third wheel. I might ship Dutch and Johnny, but I just want everyone to be happy.

There are so many different things about this whole subplot that is helping sustain this SO 'feel' that I am loathing....

Dutch has to be aware that something significant is affecting Johnny's mental state.  And while you brought up that Dutch thinks its Lucy ("lost the love of his life"), his shifty avoidance of any real emotional connection with Dutch started early on in 5.3 [well before Johnny even knew it was Lucy who was the 'traitor', therefore had to erase her].

The only way this ends up with "everyone happy" is if the final pairing is D/J/D.   Its clear to me that each brother's "one and only (desired life partner)" is Dutch.  


The way its going, I could see them ending it with everyone gets a HEA, or nobody does.

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36
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The writer of this ep was interviewed by TV Junkies. (I like that TV Junkies interviews folks behind the show for each ep as it gives good insight)

https://www.thetvjunkies.com/killjoys-ship-outta-luck/

Quote

TTVJ: The fact that Johnny may have some residual feelings about the fake memories and being married to Dutch keeps getting brought up. Will that continue to be explored? I’m hoping we don’t get any Dutch and John heartbreak here. Their friendship is very important to me!

JP: Their friendship is really important to us too! It’s what holds everything together. What makes The Lady so evil and insidious is that she can get inside everyone’s heads to see their greatest fear AND their greatest wish. And for Johnny, that wish is to find his person and build a family. So The Lady’s really done a number on him, giving him something he desperately wants, and with someone he actually really loves – just not in that way. It’s deeply confusing for him, and I think that was very strategic on The Lady’s part. She knows their friendship is their greatest strength, and she’s trying to break it.

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They give those answers^, yet they still ship-bait in SO fashion like its the law.

Instead of just getting it all out and moving past it - again, if that is the true path - we gotta watch Johnny 'angst' and Dutch 'misunderstand', and D'avin left as the uncomfortable middle-man.


Its unnecessary and makes me long for more B-Team scenes.

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I don't see it as ship baiting at all. The folks behind the show have always been clear about Dutch & Johnny's relationship, explicitly stating what it is: a great platonic love for each other. IMO, hope has been held out all these seasons that it will change in spite of TPTB directly stating it will not. This misunderstanding built on Johnny being emo about what happened with the mass delusion is a common trope to extend drama / angst and likely will be a motivation for Johnny down the road regarding his future. But TPTB have never wavered with the show' writing nor in interviews about how Dutch & Johnny feel about each other so I see it less about delivery and more about acceptance but obviously mileage varies. 

So now we know the issue isn't about Johnny having romantic feelings for Dutch at all - which is for the best since we know she doesn't feel that way towards him - but feeling exploited & vulnerable regarding his deep, strong desire for a family being used against him. Plus the loss of Lucy likely exacerbated that loneliness.

Personally, I am looking forward to seeing how Johnny deals with it and hopefully he will find someone to help heal the loneliness before the series ends. 

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What is it with this season? First we waste a few eps while our heroes have to remember they are, then they get parked in a prison and the battle is sidelined while we are waiting for them to get out. Isn’t there enough mythology without creating contrived delays? 

Also, I still can’t buy The Lady as a real threat, especially when she complains about emotions. 

There were a few nice small moments, but really Sy Fy, this is what you kept and Dark Matter ended? 

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7 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

So now we know the issue isn't about Johnny having romantic feelings for Dutch at all - which is for the best since we know she doesn't feel that way towards him - but feeling exploited & vulnerable regarding his deep, strong desire for a family being used against him. 

And that's not a totally out-there explanation either because I know I saw posters theorizing that very thing when it first became clear that Johnny was struggling.

This whole thing reminds me of the Bellarke shippers in The 100 Fandom.  As far as I've ever known, the showrunner has repeated over six seasons that the male and female lead characters are strictly platonic in their mutual love and respect for each other but the people continue to hold out hope and read things into stuff the writers didn't intend. 

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On 8/12/2019 at 10:51 AM, tennisgurl said:

From what I understand, the Lady created the Hullen as a sort of scouting force for her and her spawn, or as an experiment in taking over human bodies, and she will eventually use them to help take over the quad so that she and her people can use humans as hosts. Or something anyway, hopefully everything will be properly explained by the ending

This is the stuff I watch for, and I agree, it isn't especially clear. I cannot believe how into "Dutch loves Johnny" and "No, Dutch loves dav, Johnny loves Lucy" people are. I don't care who loves who or whether Johnny banged Dutch during the initial Lost Episodes. Let's get things moving, show.

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3 hours ago, Ottis said:

I cannot believe how into "Dutch loves Johnny" and "No, Dutch loves dav, Johnny loves Lucy" people are. I don't care who loves who or whether Johnny banged Dutch during the initial Lost Episodes.

IMO, the relationships are what make the show. The heart and soul of the show is Dutch, D'av, and Johnny... their experiences, their triumphs, their losses, their feelings, their relationships. Without the three of them, there would be no show. 

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On 8/10/2019 at 3:18 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I did laugh at her calling John Sean/Shawn, due to the whole Aaron Ashmore's twin being Shawn in real life.

Tamsen McDonough (Lucy) said it was "Shawn". And I laughed too when I heard that, but got confused because the subtitle was saying  "Sean".

On 8/13/2019 at 8:07 AM, Chick2Chic said:

So now we know the issue isn't about Johnny having romantic feelings for Dutch at all - which is for the best since we know she doesn't feel that way towards him - but feeling exploited & vulnerable regarding his deep, strong desire for a family being used against him. Plus the loss of Lucy likely exacerbated that loneliness.

Personally, I am looking forward to seeing how Johnny deals with it and hopefully he will find someone to help heal the loneliness before the series ends. 

I don't think his fake feelings for Dutch should be dismissed entirely, though. They are part of his problem too. He still need to process what happened and accept it. He still remembers what happened iin there and those romantic feelings he never had for her before as if it was real. That's why he is awkward around Dutch. He doesn't know what they are to each other anymore.

Contrary to the others two, he can't just labelled them as fake, toss them aside and be fine. That's not how he works. He is the one who cares in the team, the one who tends to act on his feelings and to get involve emotionally. That's his weakness and it makes him more vulnerable than the others. The Lady used that and his deep desire to settle down and have a family to manipulate him and to break his bond with Dutch.

This situation will have an impact on their relationship. He can't just to go back to what they were before as nothing happened. But this is not something new. It has already started to change when D'av and Dutch became a couple. This, and his loneliness among the team, were discussed at the end of season 4 with Lucy. Loosing her really is a really blow to him, especillay because he is the one who pushed the button, and makes him alone now. And to me, Nucy is very unhealthy, and the way he is hanging on to her and hiding her from the others is creepy. It is a way to avoid dealing with the situation. 

And as long as he refuses to confront what happened and to talk it out with Dutch and D'av, things will get worse. He needs to figure out what they are exactly to each other again. They all need to do that in order to reconnect as a team, because TAF seems off right now. They are acting as normal, but there is a distance between them that will keep widening until they adressed it.

And I totally agree. He has suffered a lot throughout the seasons. He deserves to find hapiness before the end.

10 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

IMO, the relationships are what make the show. The heart and soul of the show is Dutch, D'av, and Johnny... their experiences, their triumphs, their losses, their feelings, their relationships. Without the three of them, there would be no show. 

That's my opinion too. The relationships between the characters is what made me watch this show in the first place. I love them, especially this deep friendship between Johnny and Dutch, so I am against any love story between them or any love triangle happening in TAF. 

Edited by BlueBlop
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21 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

IMO, the relationships are what make the show. The heart and soul of the show is Dutch, D'av, and Johnny... their experiences, their triumphs, their losses, their feelings, their relationships. Without the three of them, there would be no show. 

I agree that without any main characters, there would be no show - for any show. What my comment referred to was the amount of focus on who likes who out of these three characters (plus Lucy). It's very soap opera-ish. I found it generally annoying as a casual viewer, and was surprised when I came to this thread and so many comments were about that. I'm more interested in the characters and their world, and the plot behind their actions. They can all be in a one big communal relationship and that would be fine, AFAIC.

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On 8/15/2019 at 7:58 AM, Ottis said:

I agree that without any main characters, there would be no show - for any show. What my comment referred to was the amount of focus on who likes who out of these three characters (plus Lucy). It's very soap opera-ish. I found it generally annoying as a casual viewer, and was surprised when I came to this thread and so many comments were about that. I'm more interested in the characters and their world, and the plot behind their actions. They can all be in a one big communal relationship and that would be fine, AFAIC.

This is the reason I’m averse to shipping in general.  I have nothing against romantic comedies, but this “who really likes who” turns a sci-fi action show into a romantic comedy.  Can’t Dutch be awesome on her own without a relationship being the most important aspect of her character?

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