S04.E11: Monte Car-loco

[luvthepros]

10 hours ago, jumper sage said:

In this day and age it is ridiculous to rail against gay people.  I have given up friends who have a "different POV".  I call it discrimination.

That is harsh to give up friends because they have a different POV. That is closed minded to me. It is the same with politics. I have a family member who is on the other side of the coin but I don't disown him/her. No need to give up friendships just because you don't agree on things.

Edited August 17, 2019 by luvthepros

[CaliforniaLove]

59 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

That is harsh to give up friends because they have a different POV. That is closed minded to me. It is the same with politics. I have a family member who is on the other side of the coin but I don't disown him/her. No need to give up friendships just because you don't agree on things.

I think someone being a racist, and/or homophobe is quite a different level than just a "different POV".

[laprin]

12 minutes ago, CaliforniaLove said:

I think someone being a racist, and/or homophobe is quite a different level than just a "different POV".

Agreed.  There is a different POV and then there is a different set of values. The latter speaks to character.  I would definitely break off a friendship with someone whose values I don’t agree with. 

[lcarolynl]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaLove said:

I think someone being a racist, and/or homophobe is quite a different level than just a "different POV".

I agree as well. Would you say that believing a person of color is less than a white person is simply a different POV? 

That believing women are too weak and emotional to hold positions of responsibility in society is just a different POV?

Some folks hold these and other ignorant, offensive opinions but I don’t have to respect their biases. In fact just blandly accepting them gives them a credibility.

[langford peel]

I think that Travis, Jackoff and Aesha are lazy drunken degenerates and at least the two deckhands should be fired.

Aesha might be salvageable if she learns how to keep it in her pants.

[spunky]

19 hours ago, Smky Mtns said:

A few thoughts from watching some After  Show interviews.

Wow Travis and Jack are cocky!  They come across as totally smug assholes.  I can’t stand either of them. 

Watching the TV show I was turned off by Aesha’s behavior and thought Anastasia was confident and gorgeous.  After watching the After Show interviews Aesha looked stunning and came across better than the edited TV show while Anastasia rubbed me the wrong way. 

Watching those same after show interviews:

Travis and Jack are too cocky for their own good. Travis is falling down drunk and Jack does absolutely nothing. 

Aesha and Anastasia: Aesha shows that she knows when to tone it down and Anastasia is using arrogance to hide her insecurities. 

June : Continues to be lost 

Colin and Joao: Both equally hilarious and enjoying their bromance.

[lcarolynl]

1 hour ago, spunky said:

Watching those same after show interviews:

Travis and Jack are too cocky for their own good. Travis is falling down drunk and Jack does absolutely nothing. 

Aesha and Anastasia: Aesha shows that she knows when to tone it down and Anastasia is using arrogance to hide her insecurities. 

June : Continues to be lost 

Colin and Joao: Both equally hilarious and enjoying their bromance.

I think June looks possibly pregnant as well. 

[spunky]

Just now, lcarolynl said:

I think June looks possibly pregnant as well. 

I'm thinking the same thing.

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, lcarolynl said:

I think June looks possibly pregnant as well. 

N the show are in the after shows? And compared to what?

[lcarolynl]

4 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

N the show are in the after shows? And compared to what?

If I understand your question correctly, she looks possibly pregnant in the After Show interviews and that is compared to her look while filming the show.

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, lcarolynl said:

If I understand your question correctly, she looks possibly pregnant in the After Show interviews and that is compared to her look while filming the show.

She was just on WWHL and didn’t look pregnant. She also mentioned on IG that she has been sick for the past two months and the doctors did tests that came back normal so not pregnant.

[jumper sage]

12 hours ago, CaliforniaLove said:

I think someone being a racist, and/or homophobe is quite a different level than just a "different POV".

Exactly!

13 hours ago, luvthepros said:

That is harsh to give up friends because they have a different POV. That is closed minded to me.

So if someone shows up at my house in a white hood I should invite them in?  Birds of a feather and all.

Note:  The book Humanimal is an awesome book that dispels the ideas of "not normal".

5 hours ago, spunky said:

Watching those same after show interviews:

I keep forgetting to watch those.  I am going over there right now.

Edited August 18, 2019 by jumper sage

[hoosiermommy]

On 8/16/2019 at 9:53 PM, jumper sage said:

In this day and age it is ridiculous to rail against gay people.  I have given up friends who have a "different POV".  I call it discrimination.

Discrimination is an action, not a thought. Someone can be uncomfortable with all types of people, but unless they treat someone differently, there really shouldn’t be a problem. If you demand everyone thinks like you, that wanders into 1984 “thought police” territory.

We don’t know if Mila was merely uncomfortable or if she treating people differently. We didn’t witness the latter, so I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that it was the former.

Maybe acknowledging that there can be such a distinction allows us to find common ground so we can alleviate the discomfort and alienate the discrimination.

[biakbiak]

12 minutes ago, hoosiermommy said:

e don’t know if Mila was merely uncomfortable or if she treating people differently. We didn’t witness the latter, so I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that it was the former.

She said she was happy that Putin was trying to crack down on gay people and agreed that he should do that. 

[jumper sage]

3 hours ago, hoosiermommy said:

Discrimination is an action, not a thought. Someone can be uncomfortable with all types of people, but unless they treat someone differently

Mila was treating others differently and in a very hateful voice.

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

She said she was happy that Putin was trying to crack down on gay people and agreed that he should do that. 

and there is that.

[DeeplyShallow]

I want you all to know that while my sleepyhead family slept in, I made breakfast and miraculously managed to keep the food hot by putting the plates in a warm oven. I’m so impressed with myself, I can totally be a successful yacht chef!

[luvthepros]

30 minutes ago, DeeplyShallow said:

I want you all to know that while my sleepyhead family slept in, I made breakfast and miraculously managed to keep the food hot by putting the plates in a warm oven. I’m so impressed with myself, I can totally be a successful yacht chef!

You certainly have it all over Ana, that's for sure. I was rooting for her at first but I'm just getting more disappointed in her with each charter. I hope they replace her and I hope it is Ben who comes to save the day.

[spunky]

3 hours ago, DeeplyShallow said:

I want you all to know that while my sleepyhead family slept in, I made breakfast and miraculously managed to keep the food hot by putting the plates in a warm oven. I’m so impressed with myself, I can totally be a successful yacht chef!

Move over Anastasia, we have a new chef onboard.

[langford peel]

If Ben comes aboard he will spend his time trying to get June pregnant and serving pretentious slop. . 

Get a new chef.  

[hoosiermommy]

20 hours ago, biakbiak said:

She said she was happy that Putin was trying to crack down on gay people and agreed that he should do that. 

I remember her saying she supported him because he didn’t allow same-sex PDA not that people should not be hired, or should be ostracized or stoned to death. Some people believe that overt physical expressions of love are best kept private (see the clamor about the totally strait “PDA” we saw from three certain crew members this episode and the outcry here). It is entirely possible, that she is uncomfortable with the display. 

I don’t know Mila, but then no one here does, and it is increasingly common for people to ascribe the worst possible label to people who think differently than they do assuming they know what is in their hearts or heads. I just ask (probably senselessly because...Internet forum) and little more discernment before labeling people you don’t know.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, hoosiermommy said:

I remember her saying she supported him because he didn’t allow same-sex PDA not that people should not be hired, or should be ostracized or stoned to death. Some people believe that overt physical expressions of love are best kept private (see the clamor about the totally strait “PDA” we saw from three certain crew members this episode and the outcry here). It is entirely possible, that she is uncomfortable with the display. 

She said all he was doing. She isn’t against PDA she is against same-sex PDA, more specifically two men, and she said that it set a bad example for her son and that it wasn’t natural, that is bigoted and homophobic not a difference of opinion. I have soured on Travis but calling her out was his high point of the season.

Edited August 19, 2019 by biakbiak

[Talented Tenth]

On 8/14/2019 at 1:10 PM, luvthepros said:

I don't like Travis ever since he came down so hard on Mila when she made it known she did not want to see PDA with two men. That is her right to make that statement as it is just as much as someone else's right to disagree with her.

Having said that, Travis came down on her so badly, IIRC, he told her she was "dead" to him. I was absolutely appalled at Travis for being so closed minded as not to accept someone else's POV. His POV is not the agreed upon POV of everyone. Travis needs to be accepting of other people's feelings and understand anyone has a right to discuss their feelings and beliefs. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and their own feelings. Whether you agree or disagree, that person should not be persecuted for their beliefs and statements as such.

I'm thinking maybe Travis was very drunk when he came down on Mila but I don't exactly remember if he made those statements before or after they all went out for the evening. I just recall I was aghast at Travis' attitude and the way he treated Mila.

Being anti bigotry is not being closed minded.  People have a right to dislike what they want but Mila said anti-gay things which were being filmed in front of her co-workers that eventually aired to the world.  Speaking against hate is not closed minded.  Bravo is a very gay friendly network.  It's foolish to go on or watch Bravo if one has a problem with gay people.  Bigots need to make sure they are only speaking with other bigots if they don't want to be called out on their hate or maybe,  you know, try to be good people.

[DeeplyShallow]

11 hours ago, luvthepros said:

You certainly have it all over Ana, that's for sure. I was rooting for her at first but I'm just getting more disappointed in her with each charter. I hope they replace her and I hope it is Ben who comes to save the day.

8 hours ago, spunky said:

Move over Anastasia, we have a new chef onboard.

To quote Anastasia- “I know how to make food taste good”

I even told my kids to get out of my kitchen tonight bc I needed to focus. I’ve got this chef thing down.

Bravo, call me. 

[hoosiermommy]

16 hours ago, biakbiak said:

She said all he was doing. She isn’t against PDA she is against same-sex PDA, more specifically two men, and she said that it set a bad example for her son and that it wasn’t natural, that is bigoted and homophobic not a difference of opinion. I have soured on Travis but calling her out was his high point of the season.

To be fair, I do now recall this happening. I will concede.

I will stand by the fact that far too many people dismiss legitimate disagreement by claiming hatred and it makes us, as a society, less tolerant, not more tolerant.

[luvthepros]

deleted

Edited August 20, 2019 by luvthepros

[smores]

On 8/19/2019 at 12:18 PM, hoosiermommy said:

To be fair, I do now recall this happening. I will concede.

I will stand by the fact that far too many people dismiss legitimate disagreement by claiming hatred and it makes us, as a society, less tolerant, not more tolerant.

The thing is, though, if Mila doesn't think that people should be gay, then at the end of the day, Mila shouldn't be gay.  Then her problem is solved. 

That's pretty much how tolerance works, people who are gay are off living their lives and not bothering other people.  They aren't asking people for their opinions, they simply get up, go to work/school/whatever, raise their kids, come home, go to bed and do it again the next day.  They don't really care what Mila thinks about them on any given day, because Mila is off living Mila's life.  

The problem arises when Mila decides that because she doesn't like people being gay and doesn't approve of it, she takes some sort of action that restricts their lives.  That's not being tolerant.  Voting for someone who will enact bans on gay marriage (or gay people), is not being tolerant of gay people.  So it's not really reasonable to say that other people need to be tolerant of Mila speaking out about what she believes.  When she's being outspoken about her support of someone who is brutal towards gay people, she's no longer being tolerant towards others.  If she simply thinks that way and it happened to come up in conversation and she wasn't being overly strident about it? Then, whatever, I wouldn't think a lot of her, but she is free to think what she wants.  But she can't claim that others are intolerant towards her in this case.  

There's a weird thing when it comes to tolerance.  There's the paradox of tolerance, you think that everything should be tolerated without limit (and this is usually what you hear when people are accused of being bigoted "you're not tolerating my intolerance!"), but it's really not the case.  When everything is tolerated, then the ability to be tolerant is ruined by the intolerant.  So if you want to have a tolerant society, you actually have to reject the tolerance of intolerance in order to maintain tolerance of the good ideals.

[hoosiermommy]

8 minutes ago, smores said:

The thing is, though, if Mila doesn't think that people should be gay, then at the end of the day, Mila shouldn't be gay.  Then her problem is solved. 

That's pretty much how tolerance works, people who are gay are off living their lives and not bothering other people.  They aren't asking people for their opinions, they simply get up, go to work/school/whatever, raise their kids, come home, go to bed and do it again the next day.  They don't really care what Mila thinks about them on any given day, because Mila is off living Mila's life.  

The problem arises when Mila decides that because she doesn't like people being gay and doesn't approve of it, she takes some sort of action that restricts their lives.  That's not being tolerant.  Voting for someone who will enact bans on gay marriage (or gay people), is not being tolerant of gay people.  So it's not really reasonable to say that other people need to be tolerant of Mila speaking out about what she believes.  When she's being outspoken about her support of someone who is brutal towards gay people, she's no longer being tolerant towards others.  If she simply thinks that way and it happened to come up in conversation and she wasn't being overly strident about it? Then, whatever, I wouldn't think a lot of her, but she is free to think what she wants.  But she can't claim that others are intolerant towards her in this case.  

There's a weird thing when it comes to tolerance.  There's the paradox of tolerance, you think that everything should be tolerated without limit (and this is usually what you hear when people are accused of being bigoted "you're not tolerating my intolerance!"), but it's really not the case.  When everything is tolerated, then the ability to be tolerant is ruined by the intolerant.  So if you want to have a tolerant society, you actually have to reject the tolerance of intolerance in order to maintain tolerance of the good ideals.

I am not advocating intolerance. I find it interesting you quote my concession post to make a point about intolerance.

Mila aside (because if you read my post, I concede that her behavior was more egregious than I first remembered), we can’t keep labeling  honest policy disagreements as racism, sexism, mysoginy, bigotry, etc. because it makes it expedient to dismiss other’s beliefs. It make dissenting opinion wrong. That is absolutely intolerant.

[smores]

1 hour ago, hoosiermommy said:

I am not advocating intolerance. I find it interesting you quote my concession post to make a point about intolerance.

Mila aside (because if you read my post, I concede that her behavior was more egregious than I first remembered), we can’t keep labeling  honest policy disagreements as racism, sexism, mysoginy, bigotry, etc. because it makes it expedient to dismiss other’s beliefs. It make dissenting opinion wrong. That is absolutely intolerant.

I didn't think you were advocating intolerance and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.  I had actually quoted your post because you had gone through a discussion about the situation and then came to a conclusion and it resolved.  I was essentially just posting as a random coda on tolerance in general. 

I do think, though, that a policy disagreement is where it becomes exactly where you should be intolerant in order to maintain tolerance.  If a person wants to sit at home and believe whatever, that people who are gay are awful, or that people who aren't white are less than or that if you aren't Catholic you aren't going to heaven or whatever the particular thing is, then whatever floats their boat.  They are free to do so.  If they have conversations with people, people may disagree with them and they may find themselves in some unpleasant or uncomfortable situations (like Mila and Travis, for example).  That can happen with just about any position you have in life.  I had a friend once whose boyfriend didn't like her to wear any polish on her fingers or any lip product, including chapstick.  He "didn't approve" of them.  I was like, what does that even mean?  And then I was like, so, he shouldn't wear them then.  She didn't feel the same way and so she refrained from using any of the products.  Personally, I couldn't be with someone like that, so my relationship would have ended over chapstick.  He can hate chapstick all he wants and is free to not use it all he wants.  I can tolerate that about him.  But telling me that I can't use it because he doesn't like it? That's not cool.  

We can't tolerate everything, it's just not possible.  If we do, then means sitting by while some awful things happen because otherwise we're simply not tolerating that person's preferences.  Instead we can take a stand against actions that infringe upon other people's freedoms/rights, based upon someone else's preferences, even if it seems like that's being intolerant.  

[hoosiermommy]

4 hours ago, smores said:

I didn't think you were advocating intolerance and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.  I had actually quoted your post because you had gone through a discussion about the situation and then came to a conclusion and it resolved.  I was essentially just posting as a random coda on tolerance in general. 

I do think, though, that a policy disagreement is where it becomes exactly where you should be intolerant in order to maintain tolerance.  If a person wants to sit at home and believe whatever, that people who are gay are awful, or that people who aren't white are less than or that if you aren't Catholic you aren't going to heaven or whatever the particular thing is, then whatever floats their boat.  They are free to do so.  If they have conversations with people, people may disagree with them and they may find themselves in some unpleasant or uncomfortable situations (like Mila and Travis, for example).  That can happen with just about any position you have in life.  I had a friend once whose boyfriend didn't like her to wear any polish on her fingers or any lip product, including chapstick.  He "didn't approve" of them.  I was like, what does that even mean?  And then I was like, so, he shouldn't wear them then.  She didn't feel the same way and so she refrained from using any of the products.  Personally, I couldn't be with someone like that, so my relationship would have ended over chapstick.  He can hate chapstick all he wants and is free to not use it all he wants.  I can tolerate that about him.  But telling me that I can't use it because he doesn't like it? That's not cool.  

We can't tolerate everything, it's just not possible.  If we do, then means sitting by while some awful things happen because otherwise we're simply not tolerating that person's preferences.  Instead we can take a stand against actions that infringe upon other people's freedoms/rights, based upon someone else's preferences, even if it seems like that's being intolerant.  

Thank you for the clarification S’mores. It seems my offense-taking meter is set to super sensitive. I am sorry I read something into it that wasn’t there.

[Special K]

Never mind, as per @OnceSane

Edited August 21, 2019 by Special K

[OnceSane]

Look at this poor horse:

Please stop beating it and Move. On. from the Mila homophobia debate.  

[jumper sage]

On 8/21/2019 at 10:48 AM, OnceSane said:

Look at this poor horse:

Please stop beating it and Move. On. from the Mila homophobia debate.  

I love the cartoon!  I had a crazy, literally, logic professor who told us to yell, "The horse is dead", when he went on and on.  It was every class.  He did lose our final exams and gave us all A grades.  We gave him a great rating.  Thanks for the 30 year old memory!

[heatherchandler]

On 8/15/2019 at 4:17 PM, biakbiak said:

They aren’t fake and they do still have to pay though at a discounted rate but still a chunk of change.

On 8/15/2019 at 4:42 PM, scrb said:

Yeah that may be Bravo's company line.

But obviously they're paying the owners of the yacht to charter the boat and then sub-chartering to guests.

If they want certain minor celebrities as guests, if they thought it would help draw ratings, are they really going to impose a high sub-charter fee on them?

And I don't see them counting the tip money on camera.

Heather McDonald (the comedian) has talked about the prices on her podcast.  She was invited to go on Below Deck with friends.  It would have cost $5,000 per person, and they would have to pay for the flight there and back.  I would definitely do it for that price, even if it meant filming. 

I would think the tip should reflect a percentage of the non-discounted price (like how you should tip on what the price *should be* when you get a free meal at a restaurant). 

I don't see any real celebrities wanting to be on a reality show.