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I agree that the Frog of Thunder moment doesn't make sense as they describe it. I can fanwank it, but it's silly to write something where we'd have to do that instead of something that's more consistent with established canon.
 

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11 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I agree that the Frog of Thunder moment doesn't make sense as they describe it. I can fanwank it, but it's silly to write something where we'd have to do that instead of something that's more consistent with established canon.
 

The whole point of "Throg" is that he's not established canon.  He's in the Void - which is where the TVA banishes stuff that isn't supposed to be in the Sacred Timeline - AKA canon.

Maybe he (I assume it's a he) is a version of Thor that a Loki (perhaps Alligator Loki) turned into a frog.  Maybe during a weird iteration of the movie,Thor a frog that was somehow worthy of the power of Thor came up and touched Mjölnir (while it was in the crater), gaining said power.  Either way, that wasn't supposed to happen, so the TVA stepped in and pruned Throg, sending him to the Void.

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All Episodes | Marvel Studios' Loki | Disney+
Marvel Entertainment   Jul 17, 2021


Loki Director Explains Miss Minutes' 'Sinister' Turn In The Finale, Shares Thoughts On Ravonna's Future
LAURA HURLEY    JUL. 17. 2021
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2570572/loki-director-kate-herron-miss-minutes-sinister-turn-ravonnas-future-finale 

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Miss Minutes zipped over to the Citadel from the TVA when Loki and Sylvie were on the verge of meeting He Who Remains for the first time, and she offered them pretty much everything they ever wanted, with an extra cherry or two on top about staying together. They obviously said no, and Miss Minutes seemingly had enough agency of her own to look pretty annoyed about it. CinemaBlend's Nick Venable spoke with Loki director Kate Herron and asked what she could say about Miss Minutes giving that extra option, and her reaction at being turned down:

"Yeah, I'm so intrigued by her relationship with He Who Remains, and I love that there's like this sinister turn with her character. And I think we knew we wanted her to be a bit more sinister in Episode 6, so I couldn't resist the jump scare. It was like, we have to make it creepy, so let's just go for it. And I think that's the fun thing, right? She's almost like the devil on their shoulder being like, 'You can have exactly what you want.' I think that it was really fun in that we thought of her as this very sweet kind of good character, and it's like, oh, no, she's actually quite powerful and knows more than anyone at the TVA. So, yeah, I think that was kind of fun, really, and that moment was really meant to be a temptation and kind of show, you know, will Loki or Sylvie go for this? And they won't. I suppose in terms of the audience, it's like at that point, you don't know what's going to happen in that room upstairs and how they're going to be tempted again. So it's kind of almost like a starter to the main course."
*  *  *
Miss Minutes zipped back off again with a simple "Happy reading!" in response to Ravonna's question of who "he" is, which again showed some personality and agency that maybe she shouldn't have had as far as Ravonna knew. Unfortunately, the episode ended without showing exactly what the files were, although they affected Ravonna enough that she left the TVA abruptly despite previously maintaining that they had to keep doing their jobs. She's in search of free will, but what does that mean for her placement in the timeline? Kate Herron shared her insight:

"Well, I think the cool thing that we can say is that they've clearly sparked something in her that she's like, 'The one who has power is the one in charge.' And we know she's been given something that's at least gonna lead her to answers, and I think that's the really beautiful thing with the performance that Gugu [Mbatha-Raw] did is that this is someone that's having like a crisis of faith. So I hope where she will go, we'll get answers. Like, why was she in that role? What was happening? And I think for her, it's just really like a kind of journey of, I guess, self-discovery she's about to go on."


Jonathan Majors Nabbed Major ‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ Role Because of ‘Loki’
Tim Baysinger | July 16, 2021 
https://www.thewrap.com/jonathan-majors-nabbed-major-ant-man-and-the-wasp-quantumania-role-because-of-loki/ 

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Once Majors was on board to play Kang, they changed He Who Remains to be a variant of Kang.

“He’s a unique character, there’s a character called He Who Remains in the comics, but our version of that is completely different,” Herron said, confirming He Who Remains is a variant of Kang the Conqueror. “He’s a variant of that character.”


‘Loki’ Director Kate Herron on Casting Jonathan Majors with Peyton Reed and Sylvie’s “Horrible Goodbye”
Brian Davids  July 17, 2021
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/loki-episode-6-ending-kate-herron-alternate-scenes-1234984129/ 

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So even though Jonathan’s Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania casting was announced first, your team technically cast him first, right?
[The Quantumania casting] happened at the same time. So basically, Peyton [Reed] and I were in that discussion with Kevin Feige and the team at Marvel. We knew he was gonna be in [Quantumania], and we knew that a version of him was going to be in [Loki].

So once a big movie or show is finally released, fans like to comb through trailers for any unused footage. So was that “King Loki” moment supposed to be a quick insert for when Loki is tempted with a throne by Miss Minutes (Tara Strong) and He Who Remains?
So that moment wasn’t actually King Loki. It was just meant to be a memory from our Loki’s past. It was basically going to be in episode one because we had a lot of memories in that episode. But it was honestly a tonal thing. The scene was actually quite a funny scene, and it was really beautifully written. But he was about to see his mother die, and it didn’t feel right to have something so comical next to a gut-wrenching moment like that. So it’s just the nature of making any film, really. Unfortunately, you sometimes have to kill your darlings. (Laughs.)
*  *  *
As Loki and Sylvie kissed, she repositioned him so she could grab the futuristic TemPad and eject him back to the TVA. So do you consider the kiss to be genuine on Sylvie’s part despite her calculation during it?
Honestly, the way I always read that kiss is that her feelings were genuine and that it was a goodbye. Sylvie is sort of where our Loki was in Thor. She’s driven by revenge, pain and anger, and that’s what he’s saying to her. He’s like, “I’ve been where you are, and I just want you to be OK. You’re not going to get what you want.” But she’s not there yet. On her journey of self-healing, she’s not where he is. So she’s not going to see it that way. So there was a sense that she was turning to get the TemPad, but I don’t think it meant the kiss wasn’t genuine. In my head, it was always a horrible goodbye, really, but the feelings were real.

Since the TVA resides outside of time, what can you say about the mechanics of the final scene?
So the way I see it in my head is that the TVA exists outside of space and time, but reality and everything as we understood it has completely changed in the last few minutes. With the multiverse branching, how do we know the TVA still exists in that way? We don’t know, and I suppose that’s a big question that will be answered as the show goes on. But in my head, the intention is that Sylvie thinks she’s sending him back to the TVA, but because of the way time and branches are crossing each other outside the window, Loki has unfortunately been sent back somewhere very different. So reality has shifted just by the nature of what He Who Remains said, and the idea is that he’s in this alternate TVA now.


‘Loki’ Director Kate Herron on the Cliffhanger Finale, Casting Jonathan Majors and What Should Happen in Season 2
By Adam B. Vary   July 17, 2021
https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/loki-director-kate-herron-cliffhanger-jonathan-majors-1235022099/ 

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From the very start, Herron says, she and head writer Michael Waldron knew that their six-episode run of “Loki” would always end with Loki and Sylvie meeting He Who Remains at his citadel, the result of which would cause the creation of the multiverse.

As Episode 6 makes clear, both of these events were massive turning points for the future of the MCU — and Herron still can’t quite believe she got to be the one to make them a reality.
*  *  *
Herron also decided to have Majors provide the voices for all three “Timekeepers” who are supposedly at the head of the TVA, but are revealed by Sylvie to be nothing more than “mindless androids.”
*  *  *
Herron says she sprinkled in some hints to viewers that Loki is in a new timeline, like redressing sets to look slightly off, and recasting Eugene Cordero’s TVA receptionist Casey as a hunter headed to the armory in a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it moment. But her favorite bit is that the final line — said by Mobius to Loki — is the same as the first line spoken in the show, by a woman in the Gobi desert, also to Loki: “Who are you?”

“That was kind of the question of the whole first season,” Herron says.


'Loki' Director Kate Herron on When She Knew There'd Be a Season 2, and Telling a Complete Story in Season 1
BY LIZ SHANNON MILLER    July 17, 2021
https://collider.com/loki-kate-herron-director-interview-season-1-finale/ 

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I mean, speaking of, I know you're not coming back, but how much do you wish you would have been able to film Mobius on a jet ski?
HERRON:
So I guess that's the task, right? Of whoever directs it next, they have to get him on his jet ski.

We were all waiting for it. We were all so excited.
HERRON:
If that's not the opening of Season 2... But yeah, it was funny, actually, because I think me and the writers and everyone who worked on the show, we were also delighted because, obviously, seeing everyone, they loved the jet skis. And we were like, "There was so much stuff," and we were like, "Oh, man." Because we all knew, obviously, he was not going to be on one. So I think definitely; I'm sure that will be a treat for the next season.
*  *  *
Speaking with the speaking of the Loki and Sylvia relationship, how do you feel about it in the long run? Do you feel like there's still a future for those characters together? Or do you feel like it really is a final breakup?
HERRON:
I always feel, to me, I think in terms of where we leave them, I really loved that because I think that, for me, I feel like that kiss is a goodbye from Sylvie. And it's painful. She is grabbing the TemPad, but I don't think it's not an earnest kiss from her. I think that it's like "Goodbye, but I have to do the mission." And I think, for me, I always think of where she is emotionally at. It's almost where Loki was in Thor. She's driven by pain and revenge and anger, and our Loki has moved beyond that, now. He's on a very different path, and he's obviously done a lot of self-reflection and self-healing, his therapy with Mobius.

Sylvie hasn't had that, though, and she's had a very different life. And I think that was really important for me as well with Loki in the time theater. When he lands in there, it's like everyone feels like after a breakup or something when your heart is shattered. But I think what was so important to me was that our Loki has been on such a journey, and he's so much stronger now than when he started. And that's why I wanted to film that shot that way, that we stay with him, but you see him sort of collect himself, and that Lokis always survive, and that he's like, "Okay, that was terrible, but I'm very strong and I'm going to get through this." I think that was really important to show. But how they meet again, what will come of them, that would be a question for the writers to go on. But yeah, I feel like Sylvie has a big journey to go on, similar to our Loki, in terms of where she's at, at least at the moment.

 

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The whole point of "Throg" is that he's not established canon.  He's in the Void - which is where the TVA banishes stuff that isn't supposed to be in the Sacred Timeline - AKA canon.



Loki enchanting Thor into a frog is canon. It's mentioned in Thor Ragnarok.  Also, the quote of mine that you responded to was talking about the deleted scene in which Frog Thor attacks Loki as Loki appears to be on the throne of Asgard that would have appeared during the Loki memory montage in Ep 1. 

'Loki' Director Kate Herron on When She Knew There'd Be a Season 2, and Telling a Complete Story in Season 1



I don't want to quote the entire paragraph from the interview where Herron answers when she knew there'd be a season 2, but it was apparently after writing and shooting episode 6. So that was intended to be the series finale? I'm horrified, and my confidence in the creative team is shaken. I don't mind this finale as a midpoint with a season 2 coming, but that would have been a HORRIBLE ending to the story. 

Sometimes I think TV writers get lost in storyboarding and talking with each other about character journeys and forget that plot and resolution of plot points actually matters quite a bit to audiences, too. We don't just want to see characters grow--although yes, we do--but we also want to see them accomplish things! We want to find out answers to mysteries like what Sylvie's Nexus Event was.
 

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Did Loki's He Who Remains Lie To The TVA About Sylvie's Original Nexus Event? Here's What The Director Told Us
NICK VENABLE    JUL. 18. 2021
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2570622/did-lokis-he-who-remains-lie-to-the-tva-about-sylvies-original-nexus-event-heres-what-the-director-told-us 

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To explain that timey-wimey idea a bit further: in his near-infinite knowledge of events, Jonathan Majors' He Who Remains knew Tom Hiddleston's Loki and Sophia di Martino's Sylvie would be within the Citadel, with the latter aiming to kill him. Having lived through eons of timeline struggles, He Who Remains seemed perfectly fine with one of the Lokis ending his story, despite it allowing Kang the Conqueror and his other evil variants to rain hell on the multiverse. So the way I see it, the villain set up his swan song by having Gugu Mbatha-Raw's Ravonna pulling Cailey Fleming's Young Sylvie out of her timeline without a justifiable Nexus Event, thus setting up the character's life on the run, and her decades-long mission to get revenge on whoever was responsible. Nobody ever said omniscient time-travelers were simple folk.

In speaking with Loki's magnificent director Kate Herron after the finale's airing, I posed that question to her, and while she does like the idea, she couldn't say with 100% certainty that He Who Remains' actions were made with only his own eventual demise as the goal. In her words:

"I suppose the thing is, I would never want to shut down the conversation on that, because I find it so interesting. I think my interpretation of it, and I could be wrong, is that he didn't know what was going to happen in that moment, but maybe he would have given her an equal [chance]. He obviously took her out of the timeline for a reason, so like, it could definitely be part of the 'Okay, well, let's see if she wins.' I mean, I think for me, in my head, I always feel like he doesn't necessarily know if it's gonna be the red pill or blue pill that ends up getting taken. But if he lined it up, to at least give them an equal fighting chance, maybe. But yeah, I think that's cool; I've been hearing that theory a little bit, which I think is kind of fun. But I think in my head, I always feel like when he takes his TemPad off, he doesn't know what's going to happen. And that, for him, is very exciting, obviously."

 

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15 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

 



Loki enchanting Thor into a frog is canon. It's mentioned in Thor Ragnarok.  Also, the quote of mine that you responded to was talking about the deleted scene in which Frog Thor attacks Loki as Loki appears to be on the throne of Asgard that would have appeared during the Loki memory montage in Ep 1. 
 



I don't want to quote the entire paragraph from the interview where Herron answers when she knew there'd be a season 2, but it was apparently after writing and shooting episode 6. So that was intended to be the series finale? I'm horrified, and my confidence in the creative team is shaken. I don't mind this finale as a midpoint with a season 2 coming, but that would have been a HORRIBLE ending to the story. 

Sometimes I think TV writers get lost in storyboarding and talking with each other about character journeys and forget that plot and resolution of plot points actually matters quite a bit to audiences, too. We don't just want to see characters grow--although yes, we do--but we also want to see them accomplish things! We want to find out answers to mysteries like what Sylvie's Nexus Event was.
 

Well as they say here it would have been a Twilight Zone type ending. I mean also what more story was to tell after  Pandora opened the box? 

 

 

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Well as they say here it would have been a Twilight Zone type ending.

 If that's what they wanted, I don't think they did the work in the previous episodes to set that up as a satisfying end. I am baffled that they thought they did. It seems like such a horrible concept for a finale that it shakes my faith in the writers and director. On the plus side, I'm less sad about Herron not returning.

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I’m with @Zuleikha all the way.  Big yikes on trusting the creatives if they thought that finale would be in any way a satisfying ending to this story.  This is a Kate Herron quote from the Uproxx interview:

I think that’s something that I and the writers were always thinking of because we only found out about it returning very late. And I think, for us, it was always important that, like you said, it stood on its own feet. I think it’s okay to leave questions. Like, where did Ravonna go? What was B-15’s past? What did she see? And also, where the hell is Loki? Yeah, I love Twilight Zone and I think that’s a really fun thing of it.


What Twilight Zone episode is everyone referencing with this finale ending?  Because the limited ones that I’ve seen that have an abrupt ending do that to bludgeon you with an ironic twist; those endings are not there to tell half a character piece (which is what I think that this finale did).  I mean, the B-15 stuff obviously doesn’t need an explanation:  that is just a dramatic choice to show her (and Sylvie’s) expression/ reaction and not her actual memories.  But you’ve got to cap Loki’s story if the point of this season was his reformation.  This story is either a tragedy that despite his rehabilitation, he ends up as utterly alone as he clearly feared in the prior episode (with the bad memory prison), or it’s a cathartic win that he somehow recovers at least his first friendship with Mobius (if not some friendship with Sylvie too), but I think you have to pick a lane and commit and not stop at the point of crisis (that is, not stop in a character study, as opposed to a morality tale).

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You know, these creators and writers just need to STOP with "would have, could have, were going to, but got deleted" bullshit. What purpose does it serve? It didn't happen, so why stir the pot and just get everyone upset?

If it didn't happen, then I don't want to KNOW or HEAR about how you had plaaaaaaned for this to happen but it got cut or deleted. Just STOP IT.

Herron can just jump off a cliff with the asshats Russos.

The only time I enjoy a cliffhanger is if it's going to be resolved in the next season premiere. Herron can just SHUT IT.

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Loki's Best Tricks | Disney+
Disney Plus   Jul 20, 2021


Loki's Richard E. Grant On Tom Hiddleston's Advice, His Costume Woes, And Making Outcasts Feel 'Seen'
MICK JOEST     JUL. 19. 2021
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2570661/lokis-richard-e-grant-tom-hiddlestons-advice-costume

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Richard E. Grant spoke to CinemaBlend's Nick Venable about all things Loki, including the advice Tom Hiddleston gave him as he prepared to play the iconic Marvel villain. When Grant had reservations about how his character would look physically, Hiddleston was there to give his co-star confidence.

"Tom Hiddleston said to me, when he saw me my costume for the first time and I was complaining to him about the fact that I didn't have any muscles. All the drawings, costume design, and the Jack Kirby illustrations in the '60s comics all had muscles. I thought I was stepping into a muscle suit. And he said 'No, don't worry about that. It's Loki's magic.' So he did say to me, he said, 'I think that playing Classic Loki, it'll make an impact that you will be surprised by.' And I thought that he was just blowing smoke, basically, on the first day to make me feel confident. But I have been absolutely floored by the responses that just came out a week ago. Absolutely astonished. So I'm very grateful. I suppose it could have gone the other way. So good news is good news to me."
*  *  *
With all that being said, Richard E. Grant would've certainly loved to still have muscles in the suit. Grant lamented that despite the praise, he still felt uncomfortable in the suit:

"If I'd had the muscles... I would have been really comfortable. I long for them. I felt the absence of my muscles all the time. I felt like I had about as much muscular presence as Kermit the Frog, who he's been compared to."
*  *  *
Tom Hiddleston was correct that Loki is not about physicality, of course, and Richard E. Grant knew that. The actor talked about how the character represents outcasts across all forms and represents them in a unique way.

"Well, I knew from the script, it's when he described himself rather than as the God of Mischief, which is so emblematic of Tom Hiddleston, he says that he is the God of Outcasts. I thought that is the key to this character's loneliness and that feeling of anybody who's disenfranchised, either ethnically, sexually, or in whatever way, that desire and need to be included, and to be seen, is so strong in us that I thought that was the key to his character. So his making the ultimate sacrifice at the end to Asgard all fitted with that thinking. It seemed to have a sort of complete arc in itself, even though it was only one episode. So I thought that was very smartly written. Besides it being fun to play... I think that's what's great about Classic Loki. He's saying that there's somebody who is out there for all of you who feel disenfranchised or not seen, and I think that's a great thing to play."


He Who Remains Is Revealed In Latest ‘Loki’ Character Poster
BY RACHEL PAIGE   July 19, 2021
https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/he-who-remains-character-poster-loki
online_13.jpg 

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On 7/19/2021 at 5:09 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

You know, these creators and writers just need to STOP with "would have, could have, were going to, but got deleted" bullshit. What purpose does it serve? It didn't happen, so why stir the pot and just get everyone upset?

If it didn't happen, then I don't want to KNOW or HEAR about how you had plaaaaaaned for this to happen but it got cut or deleted. Just STOP IT.

Herron can just jump off a cliff with the asshats Russos.

The only time I enjoy a cliffhanger is if it's going to be resolved in the next season premiere. Herron can just SHUT IT.

Personally, I like hearing places the story might have gone.  So, I hope she and other talk more about that stuff as many places as possible.

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The Surprisingly Small-Scale Ways Loki's Composer Came Up With Those Epic Themes
NICK VENABLE   JUL. 22. 2021
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2570812/the-surprisingly-small-scale-ways-lokis-composer-came-up-with-those-epic-themes 

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While the central character's main theme is possibly the one that boosts Loki fans' energy levels the most, the TVA theme is 100% equally memorable, and it just begs for a cappella renditions from viewers watching at home. And you know what? That's essentially how the theme was conceived in the first place. Here's how composer Natalie Holt described coming up with those earliest ideas.

"I'll say, the TVA theme, I was walking along the street. I had this kind of break between getting the job and then starting spotting and going through the episodes with Kate, because she was filming. So I had about a month to kind of come up with the suite of all the themes. And like the TVA theme, I just was walking down the street, and I was like - [vocalizes the theme] - and I kind of hummed that into my phone. So you can see up my nose. I knew I wanted chords, but obviously, I can't sing chords. So then I just kind of sang that into my phone, and came home and demoed something up like computer. But yeah, that was kind of the most fun one."
*  *  *
While Natalie Holt did say that a lot of Loki's music was crafted while watching show footage and getting a sense of the universe from what director Kate Herron, Tom Hiddleston and everyone else were putting together, she said that the theme for Owen Wilson's Mobius was another one that she laid the groundwork for based mostly on her own inner influences. And in this case, she connected Mobius' jet ski fandom with '80s hair metal, and somehow another masterfully emotional theme was ushered into existence. In her words:

"I think I came up with the Mobius theme just away from watching anything as well. I was thinking what Mobius would listen to fun in his downtime. I imagined it might be Bon Jovi, because he likes jet ski magazines. So, yeah, that was kind of starting point for his theme, and the guitars that I used for his theme."
*  *  *
Then there's the man himself, Loki. While Natalie Holt didn't have any adorable stories about coming up with Loki's theme as she rode on an alligator's back through a gathering of giant stone heads, she did talk about what fed into that larger-than-life composition. And it was as much Tom Hiddleston's performance as anything else. According to Holt:

"I think the way Tom plays Loki is very theatrical, and classical, and over the top, and grand, so I was very much inspired by those big classical works, and big brassy sounds, and rousing chords. Yeah, and kind of giant symphonic textures was my inspiration. But then also messing around with it and giving it style and irreverence. So yeah, a blend of those two things."

I rather cheekily asked if it was a situation where Tom Hiddleston might have come up to her to ask about adding more flute into the mix, but this was apparently not the way. Here's how Natalie Holt put it:

"Oh, I don't know what I'd do if Tom Hiddleston came up to me and asked me for more flute. I'd probably melt into a puddle on the floor. No, my main musical directions were coming from Kate Herron, and also from Kevin Wright, the producer."


TVA (From "Loki"/Score)
Natalie Holt - Topic   Jun 10, 2021

Loki Theme / Mobius Theme | EPIC VERSION (Episode 4 Soundtrack)
Krutikov Music   Jun 30, 2021

Loki: Kang Theme | Episode 6 Soundtrack | End Credits Music
Krutikov Music  Jul 14, 2021

Loki Love Theme | Episode 6 & 3 Soundtrack (Loki & Sylvie Kiss)
Krutikov Music  Jul 17, 2021

 

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Loki series director Kate Herron weighs in on fandom’s big incest question
Tasha Robinson   July 21, 2021
https://www.polygon.com/interviews/22587056/loki-director-kate-herron-interview-finale 

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... The series has been a popular source of fan conjecture and argument, with one particularly big rolling conversation focusing on whether the budding romantic relationship between trickster Asgardian Loki (Tom Hiddleston) and his alternate-universe counterpart Sylvie (Sophia Di Martino) is a form of incest.

Herron is willing to speak up about that one. “My interpretation of it is that they’re both Lokis, but they aren’t the same person,” she says. “I don’t see them as being like brother and sister. They have completely different backgrounds […] and I think that’s really important to her character. They sort of have the same role in terms of the universe and destiny, but they won’t make the same decisions.”
*  *  *
Herron says thematically, Loki falling for Sylvie is an exploration of “self-love,” but only in the sense that it’s Loki learning to understand his own motives and integrity. “[The show is] looking at the self and asking ‘What makes us us?’” Herron says. “I mean, look at all the Lokis across the show, they’re all completely different. I think there’s something beautiful about his romantic relationship with Sylvie, but they’re not interchangeable.”

Directing the final kiss between the two characters was a complicated process because it had to communicate something about each of them over the course of just a few seconds. Herron says the primary goal was creating a safe, comfortable environment for Hiddleston and Di Martino, and after that, she had to think about how to bring across Loki and Sylvie’s conflicting goals in that moment.

“It’s an interesting one, right?” she says. “Emotionally, from Sylvie’s perspective, I think it’s a goodbye. But it’s still a buildup of all these feelings. They’ve both grown through each other over the last few episodes. It was important to me that it didn’t feel like a trick, like she was deceiving him. She is obviously doing that, on one hand, but I don’t feel the kiss is any less genuine. I think she’s in a bad place, but her feelings are true.”

Herron says directing Hiddleston in the scene mostly came down to discussing the speech Loki gives Sylvie before the kiss. “That was really important, showing this new place for Loki,” Herron says. “In the first episode, he’s like, ‘I want the throne, I want to rule,’ and by episode 6, he isn’t focused on that selfish want. He just wants her to be okay.”
*  *  *
Asked if Loki and Sylvie’s relationship suffered from similar necessary edits, Herron says it’s true that the show’s creators and audience still don’t know everything Sylvie went through to make her so different from the Marvel Cinematic Universe’s original version of Loki. “We’ve seen her as a child, but she’s lived for thousands and thousands of years, in apocalypses on the run,” she says. “I think there’s so much more to delve into with Sylvie […] You’re filling in the blanks. You see [her on the planet] Lamentis, and it’s horrific. And you’re like, “Well, what kind of person would she be, growing up in apocalypses? What kind of personality would that give her?”
*  *  *
Herron says Sylvie’s backstory actually reminds her of the 1995 movie Jumanji, where a young boy is sucked into a magical board game in 1969, and emerges 26 years later as a full-grown man, played by with typical manic energy by Robin Williams. “It’s such a weird reference, but…” she says. “He’s a little boy when he ends up captive in that game, and when he comes out, it’s obviously been a life experience. With Sylvie, it’s similar. She was a child when she had to go on the run, so she’s had a very difficult life. I would love to see more of it. As Eric said, she’s a rich character, there’s so much to be explored.”
*  *  *
Herron says, though, that during her time on the show, material about Sylvie was added rather than cut — specifically, those scenes of her as a child, being kidnapped by the TVA. “This was before my time, but I know in the writers’ room, there were lots of avenues exploring Sylvie on the run and what her life was like,” Herron says. “I wouldn’t want to speak more to those, because I wasn’t there when they were being discussed. But something wasn’t in there that was important to me — I felt we should see her [history] in the TVA. Me and the team were talking about how it made complete sense, because episode 4 is all about twisting the idea that the TVA might be good on its head. And so that’s something that came in later, once I joined, was seeing her as a child. I think we needed to see that, not to understand her completely, but to get an idea of her motivations, why she’s so angry at this place.”


LOKI Director Reveals We Were Once Going To See Mobius' Past Life (And Explains Why We Didn't)
Josh Wilding   July 23, 2021
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/marvel/loki/loki-director-reveals-we-were-once-going-to-see-mobius-past-life-and-explains-why-we-didnt-a186692#gs.765hjb 

Quote

Hunter B-15 discovered that she had a family when Sylvie showed her what her life looked like before being recruited by the Time Variance Authority, and while Mobius was never given that opportunity, it feels like his past needs to be addressed in some way. Well, it turns out it almost was, as Loki director Kate Herron recently explained. 

"He had spoken about [it]. I think there were a few drafts of the script where you did see a family or you did see a life, but I think we all kind of decided we don't know what it is yet," the filmmaker revealed. "I think that's exciting, right? Because it gives more road to travel with him."

"I think it's more painful when he is going to be deleted, him saying, 'What if I had a family' Because, maybe he did or maybe he didn't, I don't know where the writers will take his character."

 

In this Disney+ interview, Loki director Kate Herron talked about what drew her to the Loki series (hint: Loki in Thor), how her pitch to Marvel Studios compared to the actual Loki series, her comedy background, her challenges in directing Loki and her advice to aspiring filmmakers...

Chip 'n' Dale: Park Life Trivia and Marvel Studios' Loki Director Kate Herron | What's Up, Disney+
Disney Plus   Jul 22, 2021

 

Edited by tv echo
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They keep trying to have it both ways.

She is a Loki! A superior Loki! No, she is Sylvie! See, her name is different! She was raised differently! In the show they kept making the point over and over that she is a Loki. Both have Laufey as their father, presumably same mother. Same parents make them at least like brother and sister. B-15 says they have the same temporal signature, that is how they knew they were tracking a Loki.

It doesn't matter if she was raised differently. A brother and sister raised apart are still brother and sister.  Variants do have differences from one another as Mobius said, but they are still the same person. Kate is kind of trying to say that to her Loki is more of a title, like President. But the show keeps making it clear all the way through that she is a Loki. She is him in female form.

So they are trying to make her Loki/not Loki at the same time to justify the romance. It doesn't work for me logically and them having a romance turns me off. Now, if they had made her a totally separate being, different person with different parents, I could ship them together as I do like the character. But making her a Loki ruins that.

 

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I'm less concerned about the incestuous aspects of Sylvie/Loki and more concerned about the creative team not appearing to have thought through the basic details of their worldbuilding.

Sylvie is Loki Laufeydottir per what we know. Yes, she's from a different temporal branch. But per the show's logic, her physical body is that of Loki's sister or half-sister equivalent. If Sylvie isn't really Loki Laufeydottir, then they need to put that explanation on screen

I am fine with two trickster frost giants-raised-by-Asgardians having a dark, twisted incestuous romance in a fictional show. I'm not fine with a creative team not thinking through the basic logic of what they put on screen.

This was a good show. But I really hope the writers look at the feedback, take it to heart, and make season 2 give us a satisfying conclusion to our Loki's story.

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3 hours ago, gail56 said:

They keep trying to have it both ways.

She is a Loki! A superior Loki! No, she is Sylvie! See, her name is different! She was raised differently! In the show they kept making the point over and over that she is a Loki. Both have Laufey as their father, presumably same mother. Same parents make them at least like brother and sister. B-15 says they have the same temporal signature, that is how they knew they were tracking a Loki.

It doesn't matter if she was raised differently. A brother and sister raised apart are still brother and sister.  Variants do have differences from one another as Mobius said, but they are still the same person. Kate is kind of trying to say that to her Loki is more of a title, like President. But the show keeps making it clear all the way through that she is a Loki. She is him in female form.

So they are trying to make her Loki/not Loki at the same time to justify the romance. It doesn't work for me logically and them having a romance turns me off. Now, if they had made her a totally separate being, different person with different parents, I could ship them together as I do like the character. But making her a Loki ruins that.

 

I agree and in reading Kate Herron's comments about Sylvie, I'm getting the impression that she was far more interested in Sylvie's character. 

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 I'm getting the impression that she was far more interested in Sylvie's character.

 

I'm not sure. Sometimes I wonder, but it also seems like she saw Sylvie simply as a tool to externalize the concept of Loki's self-love/self-acceptance.

(Mostly, I think she just badly misjudged how the final actions would read.)

ETA: This Mary Sue article does a decent job laying out why the finale didn't land the way I think the writers intended it to.

Edited by Zuleikha
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All the fury and upset over the Loki/Sylvie romance is so weird.

Why?

I'm not denying the icky aspects of incest. But it's like people conveniently forget what most mythology is, and that beyond being a comic book character, Loki is also from mythology. 

So yeah. Be grossed out by the idea.  But as with all mythology, accept that these characters are supposed to be operating on different moral lines that may fascinate or gross us out, but which we shouldn't be personally trying to identify with. 

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29 minutes ago, SnarkShark said:

All the fury and upset over the Loki/Sylvie romance is so weird.

Why?

I'm not denying the icky aspects of incest. ...

It's the icky aspects of incest.

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17 minutes ago, Trini said:

It's the icky aspects of incest.

I'm saying if you don't understand what's involved with mythology, don't waste your energy being upset by the use of mythological tropes.  

 

It's unnatural, gross and upsetting.  But it's kind of the point of it. 

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17 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I'm less concerned about the incestuous aspects of Sylvie/Loki and more concerned about the creative team not appearing to have thought through the basic details of their worldbuilding.

Sylvie is Loki Laufeydottir per what we know. Yes, she's from a different temporal branch. But per the show's logic, her physical body is that of Loki's sister or half-sister equivalent. If Sylvie isn't really Loki Laufeydottir, then they need to put that explanation on screen

I am fine with two trickster frost giants-raised-by-Asgardians having a dark, twisted incestuous romance in a fictional show. I'm not fine with a creative team not thinking through the basic logic of what they put on screen.

This was a good show. But I really hope the writers look at the feedback, take it to heart, and make season 2 give us a satisfying conclusion to our Loki's story.

Perhaps, but taking it further, it's more than possible (and in fact quite likely) that the Laufey who had her as a "dottir" is a genetically different being than the one who had our Loki because it was a different universe.

I mean, is Alligator Loki somehow a genetic sibling of either Sylvie or Loki?  It seems unlikely.

Edited by johntfs
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My take is that Loki and Sylvie are the same genetic material (I was going to start talking about them just having different chromosomes but who the hell knows the deal with frost giants). They just have different genders, and different characters/personalities, but genetically they are the same.

In the grand scheme of things, if two people are involved in a romantic relationship that does not involve some kind of manipulation or power imbalance, what business is it of mine if they're related, regardless of my personal ick level? But it's different to both see it on a Disney+ show, and to have the creative staff try to pretend that something 'cestuous is not really happening.

Another comparison I'd make is fraternal twins separated at birth who meet and develop romantic feelings for each other, except they know they're related from the beginning.

I do not feel like MCU/Disney are cool with the icky aspects of incesty mythology, and I feel like Kate Herron and head writer Eric what's-his-bucket are lying to themselves, or more likely lying to us, in order to push the romance plot. Which did not need to exist, so what in the world is that all about? I think the Loki/Sylvie relationship could have worked so well if they were acknowledged as bio family and treated each other as such. Did they feel the non-THLoki character had to be female for us to care about them learning to love and trust each other?

I would say the worst part for me is that their relationship was boring. I don't feel they had much of any kind of chemistry (possibly because of the angle the show was pushing), and therefore I'm not interested in seeing Sylvie in the next season or finding out how their relationship pans out. But I also don't want them to drop a female character's storyline until it's at least run the first course, so boy do I hope the new director and writer can pull off something amazing for Season 2.

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Loki composer Natalie Holt was part of this panel for Comic-Con@Home yesterday...

Rhapsody PR’s 13th Annual Behind-the-Music panel | Comic-Con@Home 2021
Comic-Con International   Jul 23, 2021

Quote

Talented music creatives join forces to give you a behind-the-scenes look at creating the music for some of today's most popular films and series! With composers Jeff Russo (Star Trek: Discovery); Natalie Holt (Marvel’s Loki); Mac Quayle (Ratched); Siddhartha Khosla (This Is Us); Dominic Lewis (Monsters at Work); music supervisor Maggie Phillips (Fargo); and score mixer Phil McGowan (Cobra Kai). Moderated by actor/singer Jon Jon Briones (Dr. Richard Hanover on Netflix’s Ratched).

 

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 it's more than possible (and in fact quite likely) that the Laufey who had her as a "dottir" is a genetically different being than the one who had our Loki because it was a different universe.



The creative team has given us nothing to indicate this is the case. What we know is that we have a single Sacred Timeline that is allowed to exist. Per logic, this timeline must be what we've seen in the MCU. We also know that the TVA aggressively prunes branches that diverge from it. 

This is inconsistent with the idea of a completely different universe on the genetic level. Branches would be pruned before such a thing occurred. Just as our Loki variant is the same on the physical level as the Loki that we watched in the MCU, logically the Laufey who fathered Sylvie-Loki must be the same as the Laufey who fathered Loki. It doesn't make sense for there to be some kind of non-Nexus Event creating branch that led to a physically different frost giant with the same name.

Based on interviews, I genuinely don't think the creative team thought through the logic of what they put on screen. I think they threw the Loki variants up without actually thinking about the how/why of them. I find this very frustrating. (but I don't actually mind the incestuous nature of Sylvie/Loki because it's fiction, and the whole thing should be narcissistic and twisted).

Alligator Loki makes no sense, and per interviews, he was basically a joke concept that made it to the screen. But he cannot be from a different universe because a universe that different would have been pruned long before the timeline reached the birth of Loki.

However, he could be Odin enchanting the frost giant baby into an animal shape and bringing home a pet for Thor instead of a brother (my favorite fanwank) or he could have been a young Loki not-in-control-of-magic practicing shapeshifting and getting stuck. The writers have an out in that Loki is canonically capable of shapeshift and Tom Hiddleston Loki is canonically an enchanted-by-Odin appearance rather than a genetically determined appearance. 

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21 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

All the fury and upset over the Loki/Sylvie romance is so weird.

Why?

I'm not denying the icky aspects of incest. But it's like people conveniently forget what most mythology is, and that beyond being a comic book character, Loki is also from mythology. 

So yeah. Be grossed out by the idea.  But as with all mythology, accept that these characters are supposed to be operating on different moral lines that may fascinate or gross us out, but which we shouldn't be personally trying to identify with. 

I personally don't see it as incest, so that is not a problem for me. The reason I don't like it is that I find it completely unnecessary for the story. The two of them have developed an interesting connection and I really liked how they managed to open up and eventually trust each other. I even like the aspect of self-love that was mentioned, since they are both versions of the same character, it is interesting that both may have seen a bit of themselves in the other. And despite all his egocentrism, we could see that Loki had a bit of self-loathing as well, so it was important for his development to come to terms with that. And my take is that by coming to like Sylvie, he embraced all of himself, the good and the bad. 

My only complaint is that there was no need to make their connection romantic. I know that part of my frustration is maybe misplaced here, but the show does not exist in a vacuum and it's really rare these days to see a well-developed platonic relationship between male and female characters on TV. Everything has to become romantic, it's like a plague. I was hoping that Loki would break away from the traditional heteronormative formula, but once again I was too reckless in getting my hopes up. 

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Yesterday, the baseball team in Cleveland announced that their new name would be the Guardians. The name was inspired by a series of statues on a nearby bridge.

guardians2640140084_t1070_hb0fcb96d6afc1

TVA amongst us?

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10 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

 



The creative team has given us nothing to indicate this is the case. What we know is that we have a single Sacred Timeline that is allowed to exist. Per logic, this timeline must be what we've seen in the MCU. We also know that the TVA aggressively prunes branches that diverge from it. 

This is inconsistent with the idea of a completely different universe on the genetic level. Branches would be pruned before such a thing occurred. Just as our Loki variant is the same on the physical level as the Loki that we watched in the MCU, logically the Laufey who fathered Sylvie-Loki must be the same as the Laufey who fathered Loki. It doesn't make sense for there to be some kind of non-Nexus Event creating branch that led to a physically different frost giant with the same name.

Based on interviews, I genuinely don't think the creative team thought through the logic of what they put on screen. I think they threw the Loki variants up without actually thinking about the how/why of them. I find this very frustrating. (but I don't actually mind the incestuous nature of Sylvie/Loki because it's fiction, and the whole thing should be narcissistic and twisted).

Alligator Loki makes no sense, and per interviews, he was basically a joke concept that made it to the screen. But he cannot be from a different universe because a universe that different would have been pruned long before the timeline reached the birth of Loki.

However, he could be Odin enchanting the frost giant baby into an animal shape and bringing home a pet for Thor instead of a brother (my favorite fanwank) or he could have been a young Loki not-in-control-of-magic practicing shapeshifting and getting stuck. The writers have an out in that Loki is canonically capable of shapeshift and Tom Hiddleston Loki is canonically an enchanted-by-Odin appearance rather than a genetically determined appearance. 

And what about Boastful/Black Loki?  And all the other Lokis that didn't look even a little bit like Tom Hiddleston?

Meanwhile, I think you need to remember what we learned about the TVA's actual mission in episode 6.  Despite what they believe, the TVA does not exist to enforce one Sacred Timeline.  They exist to prevent the formation of timelines who will eventually create another version of "He-Who-Remains" and thus restart the multiversal war. 

Somehow, Loki being a manipulative, envious piece of shit the way he was in Thor and The Avengers was vital to preventing another He-Who-Remains.  Sylvie's "crime" was not having a vagina.  It was failing to become the kind of horrible person that a Loki was supposed to be to play their role in the "Sacred Timeline."

Alligator Loki's crime wasn't being an alligator.  It was "eating the wrong neightbor's cat" whatever that means.

Kid Loki was there for killing his brother, Thor (because Thor couldn't be part of the Avengers if he was dead).

Maybe Boastful Loki wasn't full of shit and actually did get all the Infinity Stones and kill Thanos.  Presumably that leads to another "He-Who-Remains" so that stuff got shit-canned by the TVA.

None of these character were removed for being who or what they were, exactly.  They were removed for things that they did or failed to do.

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And what about Boastful/Black Loki?  And all the other Lokis that didn't look even a little bit like Tom Hiddleston?

I addressed this already. I think the real truth is that TPTB didn't think anything through, but canonically, Loki's appearance is an enchantment by Odin rather than genetic and Loki is a shapeshifter. Loki is one character who actually can look any which way without it indicating anything about his underlying genetics. 

  It was failing to become the kind of horrible person that a Loki was supposed to be to play their role in the "Sacred Timeline."



We have no idea what Sylvie's Nexus Event was. The show explicitly dodged establishing it. 

Alligator Loki's Nexus event being eating the wrong neighbor's cat means that in the Sacred Timeline, there is a right cat (or at least a not-wrong cat). This logically leads to Loki shapeshifting into or being enchanted into an alligator at some point in time and eating a cat. If Alligator Loki came about because a young not-quite-in-control-of-his-magic Loki shapeshifted into an alligator, got stuck, ate a wrong cat, got pruned, and was never rescued, it would be easy for the Sacred Timeline to include Loki shapeshifting into an alligator, getting stuck, eating the right (or not-wrong) cat, not getting pruned, and getting rescued by Frigga or someone else. But I am all-but-100% sure that I have now put way more thought into this than the writers did.

I don't think HWR's reveal in ep 6 materially changes the understanding of the Sacred Timeline. All it does is explain the criteria for "sacred" vs. "pruned." But his explanation is functionally the same as Miss Minutes' original explanation with HWR subbing for the Time Keepers, down to the end goal being to avoid a multiversal war. But we were always shown that timelines are allowed to exist in parallel to the Sacred Timeline as long as they don't branch in a way that leads them to the redline. In practice, this means that there can't be timelines that significantly differ from the MCU (prior to the unleashing of the multiverse anyway). 
 

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Panel included Loki director Kate Herron...

Women Rocking Hollywood 2021: Supporting Female Filmmakers in Post-Covid World | Comic-Con@Home 2021
Comic-Con International   Jul 24, 2021

Quote

Now in our 6th year at the San Diego Comic-Con, the Women Rocking Hollywood panel continues to provide a platform for women navigating the challenges of working behind the camera in film and TV. The industry that has historically been out of balance and skewed toward what director Catherine Hardwicke calls “pale and male” is now grappling with how the major studios, independent productions, and streaming media will proceed in a post-pandemic world. How can we keep the momentum moving forward, and keep the importance of hiring and amplifying the work of more female filmmakers top of mind with gatekeepers that can help bring about parity? One way is to celebrate the work of women creating great content. Kate Herron (director: sex education, exec producer/director: Loki), Sian Heder (producer/writer/director: Orange is the New Black, writer/director: CODA), Christina M. Kim (exec producer/writer: Blindspot, exec producer/showrunner: Kung Fu), Shaz Bennett (writer/director: Alaska is a Drag, director: Queen Sugar), and Ebony Adams (manager of public programs: Women in Film: LA) discuss their current and upcoming projects, as well as the state of the industry. Moderated by Leslie Combemale (senior contributor: Alliance of Women Film Journalists, producer/creator: Women Rocking Hollywood).

 

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On 7/25/2021 at 2:06 AM, Zuleikha said:

I addressed this already. I think the real truth is that TPTB didn't think anything through, but canonically, Loki's appearance is an enchantment by Odin rather than genetic and Loki is a shapeshifter. Loki is one character who actually can look any which way without it indicating anything about his underlying genetics.


We have no idea what Sylvie's Nexus Event was. The show explicitly dodged establishing it. 
 

We see "Frost Giant" Loki in Thor.  He looked like Tom Hiddleston except blue.  All Odin's spell did was make Loki look "Asgardian" by concealing/removing the blue.

We have some idea what Sylvie's event was based on the fact that the TVA required Loki to be the selfish, mean-spirited fuck that inspired the Avengers to form.  Sylvie's nexus event was not being a selfish, mean-spirited fuck.  Hell, it could be as simple as Sylvie deciding that she wanted to play Valkyrie with her dolls instead of turning into a snake and stabbing Thor.

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I think it would've been better to have Loki considered Sylvie as his bio sister and then they would have the family bond. Which would tie back his being betrayed by his sister to his always betraying Thor. 

And while we haven't seen Loki with a love interest, him having gained a friend and a sister then losing them both is still a good story for him. 

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'Loki' showrunner talks 'selfcest,' curbing fan expectations, and how close we were to seeing Tom Hiddleston's character having sex with an alien
Jason Guerrasio    July 28, 2021
https://www.insider.com/loki-showrunner-michael-waldron-season-1-spoilers-selfcest-tom-hiddleston-2021-7 

Quote

The plan to do a second season of "Loki" didn't exist until far into the production of the first season. That led to some changes in the season one finale, Waldron said.
*  *  *
To set up a tease for what would take place in season two (and let's face it, for a lot of the MCU properties going forward), Waldron and his team turned to introducing Marvel villain Kang the Conqueror (Jonathan Majors) in the finale.
*  *  *
"There's many permutations of endings that exists over the course of the whole thing," he said. "But I'm not going to tell anybody about those."
*  *  *
The internet went nuts when it became evident that Loki was falling for his variant, Sylvie. And with that, the term, "selfcest," aka having a relationship with an alternate version of yourself, entered the popular lexicon.
*  *  *
"Were we sitting in the writers' room saying we hope people are talking about selfcest? No. We weren't," Waldron said with a chuckle. "We told a story about a character falling for a variant of themselves. It's an interesting atypical type of story, and we knew that."
*  *  *
"I guess I'll set the record straight on that," Waldron said when asked about the reveal in Disney+'s behind-the-scenes special, "Assembled: The Making of Loki," that showed a writers' room whiteboard outline revealing they wanted to show Loki have sex, including with aliens.

"That was actually a breakdown, kind of a story circle breakdown for episode one," Waldron said.

One of the ideas they had was Loki would take the Infinity Stones from the TVA in the first episode and go out into the world and "make all his dreams come true," as Waldron put it.

"We were exploring if Loki escaped from the TVA in episode one with a handful of Infinity Stones would it have been compelling to watch him get out into the world and wield an Infinity gauntlet?" Waldron said.

"But we ultimately realized that it's kind of empty because he knows that the TVA exists and that's the greatest power in the universe."

So, although Loki sex was "briefly an idea," Waldron said, it was scrapped.

Instead, they went with the scene of Loki finding the stones at the TVA thrown to the side, and learning they are as worthless as a paperweight.
*  *  *
Though Waldron would not confirm to Insider that he will be involved with the show's second season, he did say that, despite the popularity of the show and the passion by its fans, it will not go out of its way to fulfill the wants of loyal viewers.

"Part of any creative team's job is trusting their own instincts, especially working in big IP projects like this," Waldron said. "That's what you have to do. You have to understand the parts of the expectations that are delicious and worth biting into and the parts where you're better off creating something totally new." 

He continued: "Our philosophy on this was it's a time travel show about Loki, so people expected Loki influencing historical events — he's going to ride with Paul Revere. How can we turn that on its head as much as possible?"


Panel included Loki head writer Michael Waldron...

Showrunner State of the Union | ATX TV Festival Season 10
ATX TV   Jul 23, 2021

Quote

This conversation originally aired LIVE on Friday, June 18, 2021, as part of ATX TV Festival Season 10. 


Includes some Loki minifigs...


The Secrets Behind Miss Minutes | Marvel Studios' Loki
Marvel Entertainment   Jul 28, 2021

 

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‘Loki’ Head Writer Michael Waldron — and ‘Rick and Morty’ Alum — on MCU, ‘Heels’ and More
By ALAN SEPINWALL   JULY 31, 2021
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/loki-marvel-disney-michael-waldron-1203845/ 

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You came into the show with the idea of Loki clashing with the TVA already in place. How exactly does this kind of arrangement work at Marvel?
Michael Waldron:
There was a creative brief that was 20 pages or so that basically said: “We want to do something about Loki running up against the TVA. Here’s some different avenues that might be cool to explore.” It was really serving it up for writers as a jumping off point for us to put together our pitches. Then I went off and really worked on the idea of Loki being brought in to hunt another Loki, and that becoming the heart of the show, and the Loki/Sylvie relationship. The big thing that I did in my pitch — even as early as pitching it to Kevin [Feige] — I really walked through the six episodes, kind of similar to what they were. I knew I wanted Episode 3, for instance, to be a little bit of a Before Sunrise, with Loki and this character walking across this apocalyptic moon. But Marvel had the initial, probably the most important spark of genius, which was just Loki and the TVA.

Where did the idea of the variant being a female Loki come from?
That was one of my ideas, that we then confirmed in the writers room. Yeah, we knew from the get-go that it was going to be Loki falling for another version of himself.

Why was that appealing to you?
I love writing any romance; it’s fun. Especially, it hasn’t been done a ton in the MCU. There’s an obviously self-reflective quality to it. And a show that’s quite literally about self-love; it is Loki getting to see parts of himself. At the start of the show, he kind of hates himself. He assesses himself to Mobius as a villain. And then he meets Sylvie, and he sees her as someone on a heroic crusade. He sees the good in her, and is able to see the good in himself.

Mobius suggests that, of course, Loki fell in love with his own variant, because he’s a narcissist. Do you think he’d be capable of falling in love with someone who is not a version of himself?
[Laughs] I don’t know if he didn’t fall in love with himself first. Maybe after that, but the first time he falls, maybe this is what it had to be.

What’s the key to telling a time travel story that takes advantage of the concept without confusing the audience?
I think it’s doing a lot of work that the audience never sees. It’s really understanding the logic of this thing, building out the TVA as a real organization that actually exists in our minds. Our writers room, we had a TVA handbook, encyclopedia, what they do and why they do it, a glossary of terms. And then you want to only give the audience the absolute bare minimum to understand the story, and to just get swept up in the emotional stakes of everything. If the sci-fi of it all, if the time travel logic of this show did not hold up week to week, then that would have distracted from the emotional journeys of the characters. So I’m glad that even though everyone had to take their medicine a little bit, along with Loki, in episode one, I’m glad it didn’t distract from the story we were telling. And we had the benefit of Loki being the audience’s eyes in. The audience is learning as he is.

There’s a funny scene in Avengers: Endgame where the Avengers start arguing about exactly how time travel works in the MCU. How much did you have to study what other Marvel movies had done with the idea to make sure your rules were consistent?
Fortunately, Endgame was the main one, and that’s how they understand it. The TVA is an organization that understands time travel on a deeper level, probably more comprehensively than the Avengers do in Endgame. We wanted to make sure we were staying true to any rules that they laid out, but sort of establishing our own rules. It’s a time travel show. What was I thinking? A movie’s one thing, but a show is hard.

How many Loki variants did you have on the writers room whiteboard at various points?
Hundreds. So many different Lokis. There was one Loki, actually maybe it was a version of Mobius that took off his glasses, and he just had really tiny eagle eyes, like he could see everything. There was stuff like that all over the white board. Tom Kauffman, who wrote that fifth episode, he’s an amazing comedy writer, and was on the first three seasons of Rick and Morty. His first draft of that episode was just bananas.
*  *  *
There’s been some conflicting information out there about whether the big bad was originally just going to be He Who Remains, who’s a different comics character altogether from Kang, and whether the casting of Jonathan Majors changed the plan. From your point of view, what happened?
The character was always written as a version of Kang, as early as the first draft of the script, we knew in the writers room, relatively early on. He Who Remains, that’s the guy behind the curtain with the TVA, and we saw an opportunity to fuse that mythology with the Immortus mythology. And that was just really compelling. It was a way to elevate, it just felt right for Loki, because Loki was there in the first Avengers, he’s the one who brought the Avengers together, and here is directly related to the exploding of the multiverse, this event that will drive the events of Phase Four. Certainly, when Jonathan came in, it allowed us to step on the gas of just how eccentric and charismatic this character could be. I was inspired in the writing of He Who Remains by Tom Cruise’s character in Magnolia, trying to give it that Frank TJ Mackey energy a little bit. He captures that and then elevates it to something else that’s different and weird.
*  *  *
But that end scene, where Mobius no longer recognizes Loki and the TVA is filled with Kang statues, wouldn’t have been a satisfying conclusion to a limited series.
That is an ending that only works if there’s going to be a second season. So there is another conclusion to the story that I wrote that exists out there, that I guess is just for me. My own little play, that I perform with my action figures.
*  *  *
Will you be back in some capacity for Season Two?
[long pause] Time will tell.


'Asked & Answered with the Women of Marvel': Kate Herron
BY MACKENZIE CADENHEAD   July 30, 2021
https://www.marvel.com/articles/culture-lifestyle/asked-answered-women-of-marvel-loki-kate-herron 

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What’s on your “Transcends All Timelines” mix tape?
Clara Rockmore because I got her in the show, and she was in my pitch for Loki. I loved it. Clara Rockmore's "The Swan" on theremin.
*  *  *
What are you rocking this Halloween: Loki’s Antler crown or ‘Variant’ jacket?
Antlers because I think President Loki. That's, like, the ultimate Halloween outfit, surely.
*  *  *
Who’s your favorite Loki?
Oh, it's so tricky. I can't decide. They're all my children. Do you know what? I'm going to say our boy, Loki, Tom Hiddleston's Loki, because he got me the job. He was my gateway Loki. I love the other Lokis. I think they're excellent, but, you know, he was what got me into Loki. So let's say Tom's Loki.

 

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Journey to the End of the Timeline | Behind The Scenes of Marvel Studios' Loki
Marvel Entertainment   Jul 31, 2021

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Lorraine Cink talks with Brad Parker, VFX Supervisor of Marvel Studios' Loki, about the incredible new locations like the TVA and the Citadel that were created for the series.

 

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If anyone is interested, this video discusses how Loki's gender fluidity was handled in the show (mostly in the first half of the video, the second half is more about representation in other media):

 

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HISHE takes on Loki and multiverses:

 

(For those who aren't familiar, HISHE has a lot of running jokes from other movies they've parodied.)

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Loki Showrunner Reveals Hilariously Weird Moments That Were Cut Out Of The Void In Episode 5
NICK VENABLE    AUGUST 3, 2021
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2571432/loki-showrunner-reveals-moments-cut-the-void-episode-5-tom-hiddleston 

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CinemaBlend recently spoke with Loki head writer and executive producer Michael Waldron in the aftermath of Loki's Season 1 finale (and ahead of his new show Heels debuting on Starz), and when I asked about any ideas for The Void that didn't get pruned, he first shared this bonkers self-referential idea that was in the original script. According to Waldron:

"Tom Kaufman wrote Episode 5 of the show. Tom's a Rick and Morty writer; he was there from the first season Rick and Morty. He's one of my great friends, and one of the funniest people alive. And his first draft of that script had so much amazing stuff. I think there was, at one point, a Loki Variance Authority, like an LVA with all the different Lokis who were down there."
*  *  *
Even if the group hadn't formed a bureaucracy (yet), Loki's fifth episode was indeed populated by an assortment of Loki variants, from Richard E. Grant's Classic Loki to Tom Hiddleston's "Vote Loki" iteration to all of the latter's hench-Lokis. So perhaps it's not so surprising that the smattering of devious villains also played into another excised idea from the original "Journey Into Mystery" script. As Michael Waldron put it:

"He'd written a great thing, like an 'I am Spartacus' sort of thing, where Loki goes to talk to Alioth. It's like Loki is going to do the heroic thing, and then all of the other Loki starts standing up trying to do the same thing, and it's just narcissists. Everybody's trying to be the hero, and it just ends up being a disaster. His first draft is one for the ages."


Loki Head Writer and Heels Creator Michael Waldron Talks Loki, Heels, Dr. Strange and Wrestling
Reality of Wrestling   Premiered Aug 4,, 2021

-- Loki: Michael Waldron said that he was "stoked" for everyone to see Jonathan Majors as He Who Remains. He also said that the "bread and butter" of the show were the intimate conversations between characters. In terms of time travel rules, host Brad Gilmore mentioned Avengers: Endgame. Waldron then mentioned Back to the Future and Looper and said that he sought inspiration from anything that treated time travel as a real thing. Waldron said that they "worked hard" to make sure that every episode "stood on its own."

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Tom Hiddleston Gets Honest About Why Loki Acted So Differently in the Finale
By Richard Nebens      August 06, 2021
https://thedirect.com/article/loki-tom-hiddleston-finale-acted 

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Via Reddit user thochi, Loki star Tom Hiddleston sat down with The Empire Special Spoiler Film Podcast to discuss the final episode of his MCU Disney+ series. Specifically, Hiddleston addressed why his character was so muted in comparison to Loki's expressive performances in the MCU thus far.

Through the first five episodes, Hiddleston explained how Loki's experiences broke him down "(into) something more authentic," noting how the "performative aspects" of his personality are only meant to "keep people at a distance." After meeting so many different people through those episodes, the anti-hero "is in a very different place" going forward:

"The experiences of five episodes have broken down, or broken through to him to something more authentic. And all of those performative aspects are defenses of some kind to keep people at a distance. His relationship with Mobius has changed him. His relationship with Sylvie has changed him. His relationship with Classic Loki, Kid Loki, Boastful Loki, and Alligator Loki, has changed him. He is in a very different place."

Revealing how the "fellowship and friendship generated" between Loki and Mobius specifically was "something...extremely new," the actor explained that his character gained a sense of care for other people that may even "enhance his power." With Classic Loki sacrificing himself and Loki expressing his desire for Sylvie to be ok, Hiddleston called this new version of Loki "more attentive and quieter" as he "is in new territory":

"The generosity of spirit in the fellowship and friendship generated between him and Mobius is something that is extremely new. And the understanding and actually perhaps care for others might enhance his power, as evidenced by Classic Loki. Classic Loki makes a decision at the end of episode 5 to save Loki…and Sylvie from Alioth, and in so doing enhances his power, and he loses, and they lose him. And also his relationship with Sylvie and his simple and simply expressed desire for her to be OK is really new, it doesn’t want her to get hurt. I think that’s honest. So yes, this more attentive and quieter Loki is probably someone who is in new territory.”


Richard E. Grant Expresses A Relatable And Deep Admiration For Loki’s Character
BY: ALFIEYAH ABDULLAH, AUG 7 2021
https://www.augustman.com/sg/culture/film-tv/richard-e-grant-expresses-a-relatable-and-deep-admiration-for-lokis-character/ 

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Loki, in general, is a character you either love or hate. What do you love or hate about classic Loki?
I think, the fact that he is God of Mischief, God of Outcasts, means that he is a role model for anybody who doesn’t feel included or has been, you know, marginalised in a form of life. That is [pauses] you know, I know many people like that. I have felt like that in my own life, and that’s the universal appeal about this person.

He manages to escape death and to keep reinventing himself and getting up to mischief whilst also paying the penalty of that by being lonely and being an outcast. So that is a combination that is very winning. On the one hand, he feels like he’s indomitable, insupable; but at the same time he’s also vulnerable because he is alone.

If you had to create a Classic Loki, or your own version of a Loki, what would that character be like?
[pauses and takes a deep breath] Tom Hiddleston, Tom Hiddleston, Tom Hiddleston. [laughs] He is the best of the best.

What was it like acting alongside Tom Hiddleston as a producer and fellow actor?
He is incredibly well-prepared, unbelievably enthusiastic. He’s been in this role for over a decade. I’ve first seen him in the theatre, fifteen years ago when he was just graduated, and I thought he had such extraordinary charisma and talent in the theatre. It was no surprise that he would have a big screen career.

But I don’t think anybody -himself least of all- could have predicted that his success as Loki would have lasted so long and become such a career defining moment for him. The appetite for him as Loki seems completely undiminished after all this time, so I think, that he is Loki for the rest of his life.

No matter what else he does, he’s always Loki. He is a fantastic character to be identified with.
*  *  *
How does Classic Loki differ from your role as General Pryde?
[With a big grin on his face, he gasps] Ahh. Well, General Pryde in Star Wars, the final one of that franchise series has no sense of humour, never laughs, never smiles. And one of the great things about Loki, even as Asgard is eating him alive, he is laughing in the face of catastrophe. Whereas General Pryde is in a state of disbelief and utter panic, and is not, and will not, and can not survive.

We know that Lokis have this absolute magic quality that they can survive anything and reinvent as anything. I suppose that’s the difference.
*  *  *
Complete the sentence. The Loki series is..
[pauses] Magical.

We have to address this of course. What is your take on Alligator Loki?
Alligator Loki? Oh I love Alligator Loki. (It) doesn’t actually speak, although Classic Loki can understand him like Doctor Dolittle. So he talks to animals, I love that.

But he’s just glinty eyed and is always around ready to pounce, so, the favt that he’s got those horns on his head. I loved that. It was hilarious. [laughs]

Finally, since you are part of the MCU now, who is your favourite character in the MCU?
[Without hesitation] Oh uh, Loki. [laughs]

 

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The 100 Best Shows on TV Right Now
TV Guide Editors    Aug. 16, 2021
https://www.tvguide.com/news/features/100-best-shows-tv-right-now-2021/ 

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37. Loki (Disney+) 
Where to stream:
Disney+

We were devastated when Marvel's WandaVision, a fresh and masterful portrait of a (superhuman) woman's grief, fell outside the eligibility window for this year's 100 Best Shows list. And we were disappointed by The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, an ambitious but ultimately ponderous series that left us worried Marvel might not be represented at all on this year's ranking. Luckily, along came Loki, at once a poignant redemption tale and riotous romp through time and space that brought to mind some of the most delightful aspects of Doctor Who. Tom Hiddleston's Shakespearean training was on full display as he reprised his role as everyone's favorite tragic god of mischief. And just when we thought Hiddleston was in danger of chewing the scenery, the scenery itself seemed to up the ante, straddling the line between spectacular and straight-up bonkers. Hiddleston was matched by Sophia Di Martino, who played a female variant of Loki from a different timeline, and their relationship was tender and vulnerable while also providing plenty of comedic moments. Throw in the stellar supporting cast, including Owen Wilson's wonderfully deadpan time agent Mobius, Richard E. Grant's theatrical Classic Loki, and Gugu Mbatha-Raw's Judge Renslayer, and it's easy to see why Season 1 broke viewership records on Disney+; it was so much fun. Here's hoping Season 2 can shoulder the burden of Loki's newfound glorious purpose. -Noelene Clark

 

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Concept art for Frog Thor was posted yesterday by Ryan Meinerding, Creative Director and Marvel Studios Head of Visual Development... 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSu_QGKpfec/

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ryan_meinerding_art Throg! I was fortunate to have led the Vis Dev team on Loki. Our small but mighty team including @wes_burt @rodneyimages @alexander_mandradjiev @kortizart @ianjoynerart @joshnizzi.art @johnstaubart @henriktamm really delivered truly extraordinary designs and keyframes. Thank you guys for your amazing work!!


B77E604A-76FC-4E48-BFA7-FD8BA7DE0F79_CvQ 

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Go to link if you wish to read this interview...

Loki VFX Interview: Jared Simeth, Luma Pictures
BY THOMAS BACON   PUBLISHED 3 DAYS AGO
https://screenrant.com/loki-vfx-interview-jared-simeth-luma-pictures/ 

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Screen Rant was given an opportunity to speak exclusively to Jared Simeth of Luma Pictures over the design of Miss Minutes, the creation of the briefing animation, and even the Citadel at the End of Time.

 

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