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S04.E03: Keep Calm and Party On

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Veronica and Keith’s client, Daniel Maloof, makes a shocking confession. Sheriff Langdon closes in on her top suspect. Veronica and Matty join forces, just as the whole investigation is flipped on its head.

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I'm really into True Crime stuff and seeing the riff on that whole community made me laugh my ass off, especially when they got to Clark Duke from Greek and the Office insinuate that Veronica was responsible for Lily's murder. Lily's murder would be considered an unsolved cold case and it's totally right that there would be people debating over who really did it, given that Aaron Echolls wasn't convicted.

I now want to see Veronica read a Reddit post that lays out the reasons why she was Lily's killer. LOL.

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4 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm really into True Crime stuff and seeing the riff on that whole community made me laugh my ass off, especially when they got to Clark Duke from Greek and the Office insinuate that Veronica was responsible for Lily's murder. Lily's murder would be considered an unsolved cold case and it's totally right that there would be people debating over who really did it, given that Aaron Echolls wasn't convicted.

I now want to see Veronica read a Reddit post that lays out the reasons why she was Lily's killer. LOL.

There is a tv tropes WMG that lays out why Logan is Lilly’s killer. There probably is a Reddit post. 

Edited by Affogato · Reason: Sp
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Love it so far, but the trip to the club took a turn that seemed pretty random and out of character for Veronica((and for Logan, too, considering what we have seen of his current life and what he does). Maybe it will come into play later, but just adding a scene of Veronica readily accepting drugs from a person she just met and partaking in an ecstasy fueled night of partying with spring breakers just left me thinking... huh?

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13 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Lily's murder would be considered an unsolved cold case and it's totally right that there would be people debating over who really did it, given that Aaron Echolls wasn't convicted.

I don't think it would be considered unsolved just because Aaron got off. The police presented their case to the DA to the point where charges could be filed. To reference both the show and the book Homicide, at that point the case would be considered closed and Lily's name would go to black. I mean it is not like the LAPD is still investigating the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. But yea people on the internet would still be debating it.

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You'd think the fact that Aaron himself was killed right after his acquittal would be fodder for the murderheads. None of them brought that up.

No one being convicted of Lilly's murder means it's still technically unsolved. Weirdly, the reviewer over at Vulture seems to think that the crime is actually unsolved and this season will reveal the real murderer, which sounds ridiculous.

ETA: Weevil!

Edited by Melgaypet
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21 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

You'd think the fact that Aaron himself was killed right after his acquittal would be fodder for the murderheads. None of them brought that up.

No one being convicted of Lilly's murder means it's still technically unsolved. Weirdly, the reviewer over at Vulture seems to think that the crime is actually unsolved and this season will reveal the real murderer, which sounds ridiculous.

ETA: Weevil!

Actually, w/ all the talk of a twist I've seen in reviews, that has been kind of my long shot guess, a different, unforseen resolution to the Lily murder(not weevil, though). That's basically what they did w/ Veronica's rape, which appeared resolved in season one, and was then upended in the finally of season two.I

I hope that's not the case, i don't think I would really like it, but it's possible and not totally unprecedented on this show.

Edited by moonshine71

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1 minute ago, moonshine71 said:

That's basically what they did w/ Veronica's rape, which appeared resolved in season one, and was then upended in the finally of season two.

I know, but I didn't think that really worked, which is one reason I can't'really see Thomas going that route. That, and the fact the Aaron pretty much bragged to Veronica about killing Lily and getting away with it. I really, really hope they don't undo him being the murderer, I don't see any way that it's not just a cheap shock twist. Especially since they only alternative murderer that would really land hard would be Logan, and I'm ambivalent to the character, but really?

(I wasn't suggesting Weevil as Lilly's killer, btw, I was just excited to see him.)

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No no no. Leave everything Lilly killer related alone. 

That's also one of the worst tropes when bringing back a franchise. Retconning in order to shock or stretch out a story. I know we are just speculating but do not want.

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2 hours ago, Goldmoon said:

Ecstasy? Thought it was weed.

Nah, definitely not weed.

Nicole offers them all some "e", and Dick responds that he's already been rolling for 72 hours.

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I loved that Claudia turned out to be Weevil's sister. That's a twist I didn't see coming and respected. And I'm shocked at how excited I was to see Hector.

Veronica doing E seemed out of character and out of character for current Logan. I did like that little clip of them all dancing and doing shots though. 

I'm really glad Wallace is the physics teacher. Since he wanted to be an engineer, I'm glad he's at least teaching something in science.

I am so curious about what Logan has been up to the past 10 years. 

I love them making fun of the true crime community, and casting Patton Oswalt really goes a long way to proving that it's good-natured teasing.

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For some context, Patton Oswalt's late wife wrote a book on what she coined the Golden State killer of the 1970's and 1980's. He was captured using DNA after she passed away. It's therefore an honor as a true crime buff to see him playing one. And yeah, Lily's case would probably be debated a lot. Remember, we only saw part of that conversation I'm sure Aaron's death got mentioned.

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9 hours ago, moonshine71 said:

Adding a scene of Veronica readily accepting drugs from a person she just met and partaking in an ecstasy fueled night of partying with spring breakers just left me thinking... huh?

God, me too. That was weird, right? I know this is a person she clearly likes and feels a certain kinship with but Veronica of all people wouldn't just accept drugs in a club. That felt very out of character. 

6 hours ago, Goldmoon said:

Ecstasy? Thought it was weed.

Def e

4 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

No one being convicted of Lilly's murder means it's still technically unsolved. Weirdly, the reviewer over at Vulture seems to think that the crime is actually unsolved and this season will reveal the real murderer, which sounds ridiculous.

Honestly, it's been a long time since I watched the first season of this show but the endless references to this have been confusing for me. I though the murder was solved. I know that people are idiots and would still have alternative theories even if we didn't have to go through the stupid that was that season 2 trial. But I'm surprised that Veronica herself didn't argue about that the first time it came up. 

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4 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

You'd think the fact that Aaron himself was killed right after his acquittal would be fodder for the murderheads. None of them brought that up.

You know, it's funny. Whenever I think back on that plot point, I think I remember that Aaron's death was set up to look like a suicide to satisfy those who thought he did it (he couldn't take the guilt), and those who thought he didn't (he despaired that his reputation would never recover), and that's why it's not considered a mystery in Neptune, and why we don't hear people going on about the "unsolved case" of the "monster" who murdered "beloved" movie star Aaron Echolls.

But I just had another peek at the episode to confirm this, and Weidman is definitely standing BEHIND Aaron and shoots him in the back of the head. No way would it even remotely look like suicide. So I've been wrong all this time, and the murder of Aaron Echolls IS an unsolved case, and a loose end for this show! Maybe it comes up in season 3, and it's just been so long since I've watched it that I've forgotten what was said, but it seems crazy to me that a high-profile movie star recently acquitted of murder was executed at Millionaire Central Headquarters (the Neptune Grand), and it made no lasting splash in the community. Can anyone who saw season 3 recently remember if it ever came up? I assume nothing was ever linked back to Weidman or the Kanes, if the "Murderheads" still think Keith was wrong to investigate Jake. 

However, Aaron definitely DID brag to Veronica about killing Lilly. He did it, and that's confirmed, even if only Veronica (and we) know(s) for sure. So if there is a twist about it coming down the pike, it would have to be about who people BELIEVE killed Lilly, rather than who actually did. Maybe someone will be falsely accused or arrested?

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Hmm, all I can think about with this one is that Keith owing a favor to J.K. Simmons will be uh, not good. Ugh, I want to binge this show so bad but we are done for the night.

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1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

I'm really glad Wallace is the physics teacher. Since he wanted to be an engineer, I'm glad he's at least teaching something in science.

How does Wallace afford that new house on physics teacher salary?? 

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4 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

Obvious answer: his wife has a high-paying job.

I was about to say that it might just be a McMansion in a cheaper area away from the beach, but then I realized that they live in suburban San Diego, not Inland Empire.

Edited by methodwriter85
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40 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I was about to say that it might just be a McMansion in a cheaper area away from the beach, but then I realized that they live in suburban San Diego, not Inland Empire.

Veronica teased him about being an 09er as they walked into his house so he's obviously living in a very expensive house in the wealthy 90909 ZIP Code. So either his wife has an amazing job and/or Wallace had a high level job where he received an excellent share package/payout of some kind which then allowed him to switch to a lower paid career that he found more satisfying/suited him better as a parent.

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34 minutes ago, AllyB said:

Veronica teased him about being an 09er as they walked into his house so he's obviously living in a very expensive house in the wealthy 90909 ZIP Code. So either his wife has an amazing job and/or Wallace had a high level job where he received an excellent share package/payout of some kind which then allowed him to switch to a lower paid career that he found more satisfying/suited him better as a parent.

His wife said something about depositions. She is a lawyer. We are reminded of the life Veronica could have lead as a highly paid lawyer. She hates socializing with the yuppies! Not for Veronica!

in case we had missed that the first time. 

Edited by Affogato
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I loved Alonzo and Dodie sitting around watching infomercials. And I'm with Dodie - my mom has shit knives too so I bought her some nice new sharp ones for Christmas a few years ago. Honestly, it was as much a present for myself as it was for her because I couldn't stand trying to cut things with her old crappy knives whenever I went to visit her.

Why didn't Dick just bring a second pair of pants to the club with him? I mean, I know the answer is because IT'S DICK.

It's a good thing that Wallace's wife is a lawyer because there's no way he would have been able to afford that sweet 09er house on his high school teacher's salary.

Re: Veronica and Logan at the club - just because Nicole offered E to them doesn't mean they took it. I only saw Veronica and Logan drinking. I can tell you from personal experience, it's possible to be around people doing stuff without partaking yourself. I just assumed that Veronica and Logan were just doing shots while Nicole and Dick were the ones on E.

I laughed so hard at the aliases the police put on the picture of Juan crapping in the motel ice machine. My favorite was Poo Radley. I totally cracked up when Veronica politely told him that he could mug people and still be respectful. Glad to see she still has that taser!

I was really hoping we would get a full on Top Gun homage with Logan and Dick playing volleyball. I was cracking up at how badly the girls were beating them.

I loved how apologetic but straightforward Alonzo was with Daniel about why he had to kill him for his boss. Glad we got verification that Tawny's family is a bunch of assholes who didn't even like her.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I loved Alonzo and Dodie sitting around watching infomercials. And I'm with Dodie - my mom has shit knives too so I bought her some nice new sharp ones for Christmas a few years ago. Honestly, it was as much a present for myself as it was for her because I couldn't stand trying to cut things with her old crappy knives whenever I went to visit her.

Why didn't Dick just bring a second pair of pants to the club with him? I mean, I know the answer is because IT'S DICK.

It's a good thing that Wallace's wife is a lawyer because there's no way he would have been able to afford that sweet 09er house on his high school teacher's salary.

Re: Veronica and Logan at the club - just because Nicole offered E to them doesn't mean they took it. I only saw Veronica and Logan drinking. I can tell you from personal experience, it's possible to be around people doing stuff without partaking yourself. I just assumed that Veronica and Logan were just doing shots while Nicole and Dick were the ones on E.

I laughed so hard at the aliases the police put on the picture of Juan crapping in the motel ice machine. My favorite was Poo Radley. I totally cracked up when Veronica politely told him that he could mug people and still be respectful. Glad to see she still has that taser!

I was really hoping we would get a full on Top Gun homage with Logan and Dick playing volleyball. I was cracking up at how badly the girls were beating them.

I loved how apologetic but straightforward Alonzo was with Daniel about why he had to kill him for his boss. Glad we got verification that Tawny's family is a bunch of assholes who didn't even like her.

LOL, my mom, too, with the knives. Drives me nuts.

Re: the E party, that scene made me do a double take. I rewound it a couple times just to be sure I heard what I thought I heard and to see the reaction from Veronica and Logan to Nicole's invitation. They both looked up for it to me, and I don't really understand why ecstasy would be written into the scene at all when it could just have been about them all doing shots and partying. I do think it's OOC for Veronica to drop E after what happened to her. I mean, yes, this time the drug-taking was her decision, but still. I think/hope this scene was there for a reason and that it comes up later as part of this (or a future) plotline.

Poo Radley. Heee.

Edited by spaceghostess
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The E thing was off for me too. It’s like they changed their minds but left the line of dialogue in. (You also can’t “roll” for 72 hours straight, Dick, but okay.)

I do enjoy it when shows do a realistic take on MDMA use, because it can be a hilarious plot device, so I was kind of hoping for that. The “do a bunch of shots/generic partying” cop-out is pretty common.

Lots of little name gags as usual. Jimmy Hetfield, Perry Walsh (Luke Perry/Brandon Walsh), but they’re not taking me out of the show like they did on izombie.

Edited by kieyra
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18 hours ago, possibilities said:

So they can't use "the f word" but they can have all the sex, drugs, and violence they want. I find that hilarious, honestly.

Oh yeah, thats the rating system for ya. You can show all the dead mutilated corpses you want and its all good (bring the kids!) but if someone says a naughty word when they find the eviscerated corpses? Oh my God hide the children!

Weevil! So happy to see you Weevil, although I am still sad that he ended up being pulled back into gang life after he moved on at the start of the movie. And we  even got to see Hector for a second! 

Alonzo and Dodie are terrifying, but I admit I love their banter, whenever Alonzo makes his very long winded thoughts on his process and life. 

The send up to the true crime community was hilarious, and with Patton here its clearly an affectionate parody of some tendencies of the community and their tendency to obsess a bit and find increasingly convoluted theories about the truth behind crimes. Especially as they are STILL trying to solve the Lily Kane case! 

I really hope they arent playing with the idea of saying that Aaron really didn't kill Lily and someone else did. Thats some bullshit, and while I dont think the show will actually do it (considering Aaron basically cackled about it to Veronica before he tried to kill her) the idea sends a shiver of annoyance down my spine. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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On 7/21/2019 at 1:16 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was really hoping we would get a full on Top Gun homage with Logan and Dick playing volleyball. I was cracking up at how badly the girls were beating them.

Glad it wasn't just me. I blame the 'Top Gun: Maverick' trailer otherwise my mind would never have gone there *cough* The girls beating them was hilarious.

For once Tunefind left me hanging: did Keith get to listen to 'Cheap Trick' during his MRI? That would be awesome continuity.

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On 7/20/2019 at 4:27 AM, methodwriter85 said:

when they got to Clark Duke from Greek and the Office insinuate that Veronica was responsible for Lily's murder

Wow! I didn't recognize him at all! 

It made me happy to see Keith getting first class medical treatment. Loved the smile on his face in the CAT scan. I REALLY hope there aren't any strings attached. I'm expecting Clive to turn out to be a charming villain. 

That second bomb caught me completely by surprise. I was busy comparing the head sizes of the different actors and noticing what an unusually long neck Logan had. 😁

My one complaint is that I was hoping for Cliff to be an ongoing character. I'm disappointed he's not. 

Edited by Melina22

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a few things that left me scratching my head/annoying hubs with my thoughts.

1. I get that the congressman was jonesing for a cigarette but given the fact that the he's already almost been attacked why would he bother to leave? Can you postmates that stuff? 

2.  Messing up the congressman would have some serious repercussions to the Hillbilly Twins.  And it wouldn't give them their ultimate goal of the money.  Why didn't they just extort him for cash instead? 

3. I'm not liking Gabriel's vengeance squad at all.  They are just too reckless with who they kill.  Do they really think they should kill every suspect?

4. What level of movie star is Dick? Why would spring breakers care about him? 

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13 minutes ago, CurlyATX said:

I'm not liking Gabriel's vengeance squad at all.  They are just too reckless with who they kill.  Do they really think they should kill every suspect?

Agree with all your points. It doesn't make sense that 2 different squads feel like killing or beating up a congressman is no biggie. And I realize the cartel guys are trained killers, but they're not magic. The way they wander around killing people at random is ridiculous. 

That said, I'm loving the show and ended up binging 4 episodes yesterday. Now it's afternoon... I've been forcing myself to hold off on binging more so far today, but I have a feeling I could finish the series by bedtime. 

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5 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I've been forcing myself to hold off on binging more so far today, but I have a feeling I could finish the series by bedtime. 

I am trying to savor it... only one episode at a time.  So-hard.  Luckily, there are enough graphic parts that I can't wait it during normal hours (since I have kids).  I've been trying to avoid spoilers too.

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I agree with everyone saying it was weird to have Veronica and Logan doing ecstasy.

I was actually even surprised that V. would take a drink from a woman she hardly knew considering Her experience of being roofied.

Happy to see Weevil and Francis Capra looking healthy.

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On 7/20/2019 at 10:49 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

Maybe it comes up in season 3, and it's just been so long since I've watched it that I've forgotten what was said, but it seems crazy to me that a high-profile movie star recently acquitted of murder was executed at Millionaire Central Headquarters (the Neptune Grand), and it made no lasting splash in the community. Can anyone who saw season 3 recently remember if it ever came up? I assume nothing was ever linked back to Weidman or the Kanes, if the "Murderheads" still think Keith was wrong to investigate Jake. 

I rewatched the series. It did not come up in season 3. So interesting points about his murder not being a mystery to be solved on the show. Guess they figured fans would just be happy he got justice somehow since the legal system didn't do it, and we could assume that it was otherwise investigated off-screen. Hard to imagine Veronica/Keith/Logan wouldn't be invested in that, though. 

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On 7/20/2019 at 7:20 PM, methodwriter85 said:

For some context, Patton Oswalt's late wife wrote a book on what she coined the Golden State killer of the 1970's and 1980's. He was captured using DNA after she passed away. It's therefore an honor as a true crime buff to see him playing one.

I never connected the two (wife with the role on VM). That's pretty interesting.

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I wasn't as bothered by the OOC drug use since Veronica is now an adult (I've also been glad they finally have her drinking alcohol since she was always very averse to accepting drinks when she was underage- understandably with her history), but I was put off by the fact that they just seemed drunk complete with being hungover the following morning. Especially since the main danger of MDMA is dehydration, there is really no need to drink while rolling and I get bothered when that's shown as the normal way to enjoy the drug... also, if you partake in E without alcohol, you'll sleep fantastically and wake up feeling 100% good to go the next morning. They may as well have just left out the Ecstasy line and portrayed it as a big drinking night since the drug use comment didn't mesh with the following scenes. (13 Reasons Why did a pretty accurate portrayal of MDMA use, for the record.)

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I seem to be incapable of recognizing Dick without the surfer hair (although I do sometimes wonder if the whole series is an excuse to make a 70-some episode dick joke).

And I probably missed something, but what is Logan's status with the Navy?  Is he out?  How can he just randomly pick up jobs like security for the congressman?

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2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I seem to be incapable of recognizing Dick without the surfer hair (although I do sometimes wonder if the whole series is an excuse to make a 70-some episode dick joke).

And I probably missed something, but what is Logan's status with the Navy?  Is he out?  How can he just randomly pick up jobs like security for the congressman?

Oh and also? I really want pizza now. 

Whoops. Meant to edit, but apparently I replied. 

Edited by SoMuchTV

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If Logan is supposed to be an intelligence officer, there is NO WAY he'd be doing drugs, especially in a public place. He could immediately lose his security clearance and he wouldn't pass a follow-up polygraph.

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35 minutes ago, AheadofStraight said:

If Logan is supposed to be an intelligence officer, there is NO WAY he'd be doing drugs, especially in a public place. He could immediately lose his security clearance and he wouldn't pass a follow-up polygraph.

One of the things that bothers me about Rob Thomas shows is the lack of basic research. On the other hand you could convince me he palmed it, i lost focus a bit while watching this episode. The whole navy connection wasn’t very realistic ant the whole mission impossible aspect, also. Give me two weeks in an unfamiliar country, me and my bad arabic, and ... he is what? Rescuing people? Assassin? Part of an emergency swat team? It is clearly meant to be filtered through Veronica’s eyes, she is both jealous and proud and totally ignorant of what was going on. 

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