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S02.E07: I Want To Know

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2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

ML was still responsible for her child's death.  You simply can't let yourself get distracted while driving, or you could kill somebody.  If this is too much responsibility for someone to bear, then they shouldn't drive.  Even if Perry "distracted" her he was still just a child.

I don't know if that is particularly realistic.  You have a kid screaming in the backseat, you have sirens behind you that command you to pay attention to them and move over, etc.  You get distracted.  Obviously, someone should do their best to pay attention to the road while driving, but I don't know that you can just shut a distraction off and drive in all instances. 

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51 minutes ago, Lemons said:

I hated the way Celeste blamed the mother for Perry being an abuser.  Maybe but everyone loves to blame mother.  How will Celeste feel if her bully of a kid is damaged from her staying with an abuser for way too long.  I wonder if he was the one who videotaped the horrific beating of his mother and if so did he share it with his brother? 

From what we have seen of Celeste, she will feel terrible and would blame herself for staying with her abusive husband too long and not getting the kids away from him sooner. 

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13 hours ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

The boys weren’t there for that part, were they? They only came to the last day for the verdict. 

No, they weren't in court the day that Celeste questioned Mary Louise (which is when she revealed to the court that Perry had raped Jane and then she showed the video of Perry beating her).

The boys came to court only on the last day when the judge was going to make her decision. They heard Mary Louise say to the courtroom, "Celeste, you are ill. What we saw on that video was repugnant. It was grotesque. I'm so ashamed of my son. But you were a part of it. You were complicit in it. You have admitted to me, to yourself, to this court, that you were a part of this sickness that you exposed your children to, that they may have been infected by, that they recorded on their smartphone to stick in their memory book. It's a sickness that, given your most recent social adventures with strangers, it seems that you are unable to resist."

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4 hours ago, Lady of nod said:

And I would be happy to see a season 3. David Kelley says no, but Nicole says he said that after season one, so who knows.

He can do what Vallee did, take the year off, let a woman write the whole season and then swoop in at the last minute to rewrite everything.

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1 hour ago, Lemons said:

It's interesting that Bonnie's mother abused her and Bonnie is all peace and love. 

It's said that when children become adults, they either imitate their parents or make a conscious effort to be the opposite, so I can understand Bonnie's very chill vibe as her way of making a decision not to be like her mother.

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2 hours ago, Lemons said:

I hated the way Celeste blamed the mother for Perry being an abuser.  

Mary Louise was trying to take her children. Do you really think Celeste should have been polite about it?

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On 7/21/2019 at 10:08 PM, humbleopinion said:

Lazy writing is Ed and Madeline doing the vow renewal...felt bad for Adam and Reece.

It looked like a sappy Hallmark movie.

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1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

And I would be happy to see a season 3. David Kelley says no, but Nicole says he said that after season one, so who knows.

Please don’t hate me, but I’ve kind of seen enough of Nicole Kidman’s close- ups on my t.v.  I can almost count all her facial surgeries.  Just my opinion of course.

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3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It's said that when children become adults, they either imitate their parents or make a conscious effort to be the opposite, so I can understand Bonnie's very chill vibe as her way of making a decision not to be like her mother.

Bonnie is also aware of her mother's abusive nature. Some people grow up with it, and never realize that not every home has that stuff going on. We didn't get to see Perry describe life with ML, only Celeste's take on it.

That said, if Bonnie had been written as neurotic in other areas, it might have been a little more realistic (but then, maybe settling for Nathan was her way of seeking stability).

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1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Please don’t hate me, but I’ve kind of seen enough of Nicole Kidman’s close- ups on my t.v.  I can almost count all her facial surgeries.

Yup. The strategically placed bangs and side-sections of hair aren't fooling anyone. It's a damn shame too, she has stunning bone structure and would have aged beautifully IMO.

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23 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When the judge was about to make her decision and then Mary Louise asked if she could speak AGAIN, I just rolled my eyes. She just always has to have the last word. Seriously, STFU.

I do think it's a nice detail that, both times she wanted to give a speech to the judge, she said, "Your Honor, may I be heard?" which is melodramatic, weirdly formal, and kind of a signal that you're trying to make the other person feel rude if they decline -- so, perfectly in character for Mary Louise.

15 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The constant red herrings and plots that seem to be going somewhere but meant nothing in the end were just annoying, and made many bits seem like a waste of time. Mary Louise suspects foul play in Perry’s death? She never finds out and the women turn themselves in independently of her. ...

I think part of the reason I didn't like this ending was because it feels to me like it's conflating a lot of different issues into one. I feel like, somewhere behind the scenes, someone's reasoning is, "If Celeste can prove that Perry was abusive, then she should automatically keep her kids" and "If Celeste can prove that Perry was abusive, then it doesn't matter how he died." Neither of those things is true, but it seems like, for some reason, that tape was the dynamite that blew up all of those story lines, and made everyone say, "Well, case closed. He was a scumbag, so everyone else is exonerated (except his mom)!"

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On 7/22/2019 at 9:34 AM, sunshine23 said:

Yes, Nicole Kidman did a great job when Celeste finally woke up but really, all she did this season was walk around looking defeated and sad. It wasn't until the end when ML came to her door that she really showed any fire.

23 hours ago, Dminches said:

The woman lost her husband and was on the brink of losing her sons. How were you expecting her to act?  She was an abused woman who was totally confused as displayed in well acted and written therapy sessions. And she was complicit in hiding his killing, which is what it was  

Acting as nothing bad had happened would have been completely unrealistic. They way she did behave was much more consistent with things that had played out. 

I'm with Sunshine23, and it's not because the character wouldn't have behaved that way....I would agree that the character had been through a lot that would make her look defeated and sad.  My beef is that the actress just had to go around looking/acting defeated and sad, and we saw scene after scene after scene of Nicole speaking in a soft monotone voice, which sometimes meant she was scared, sometimes sad, sometimes beaten down emotionally, but so much the same.  Even when she supposedly got more passionate, it was still more of the same, just a slight shade or two off and with a different motivation.  I didn't see facial expressions that conveyed 1,000 words, or delivery of lines that imbued them with unexpected poignancy or power (like I did with Meryl Streep).  Nicole's performance seemed very one-note.

21 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Is anyone else here a fan of "Lie to Me"?  That show has ruined me.  Tim Roth is the lead character on that show and he explained that when people were speaking in affirmations, but shaking their head "no" throughout the speech, it means that they are lying.

Now, I have no idea if this is true or if the "science" on that show was accurate whatsoever.  But I do know that show has ruined me, case in point:

Loved, loved, loved "Lie to Me"!!  And yes, detectives use the microexpressions all the time to try to read the suspects, and the 'tells' can be valid.  But not for all people, all the time.  It's kind of like a 'lie detector test' (polygraph).  When people fail, the TV shows will say it proves they were lying.  No, all it proves is that they had a particular reaction...the detectives now need to pinpoint the reason for the reaction (for instance, some people who are having a secret affair will have reactions to questions on the polygraph, but it's because they are concerned about being discovered, not because they are lying).

On 7/22/2019 at 7:57 AM, Haleth said:

I sort of cringed when Celeste repeated the exact same words about the twins that ML had said about Perry-- he was a good boy, she raised him to be a good man/ they were good boys, she was raising them to be good men.

Yes, that was super weird.  Were they trying to hint that her boys will grow up to be abusers just like Perry was?  Or was it inadvertent and just bad writing, that supposed 'good mother' Celeste used the same words as 'bad mother' ML to describe their boys? 

On 7/21/2019 at 10:54 PM, jenn31 said:

Can’t agree with you there. Ranting and raving isn’t great acting to me. Renata is a man’s idea of what a woman is like.

On 7/22/2019 at 8:37 AM, Mellowyellow said:

LOVED that Renata got more to do in S2. I don't find her a cartoon character at all. I found her really believable. Her bravado and loudness aside, she's got a good heart and is "soft" imo which is why she kept Gordon around for so long until the blatant disrespect woke her up finally. To me that's really in character for someone with that personality. They can be tough but also completely soft in some ways. 

Just as Nicole's acting seemed one-note in one direction. Laura's was even moreso in the other direction.  She always seemed like a cartoon character this season (she was more fleshed out last season).  From the first ep this season where she was a raving b at the school, we saw her week after week exploding at someone.  Just a shrew (as the character was written). 

I don't know why she kept Gordon around so long....I don't think it was because her heart was soft, but the writers sure didn't let us know what it was.  They def didn't let us know why on earth she hadn't filed for divorce after the infidelity, which was on top of Gordon's monumentally disastrous financial decisions (which, like the infidelity, weren't one-time lapses of judgment, but ongoing poor decisions he made over and over and over again).  There was absolutely no insight into what must be inner turmoil about what she was going to do regarding her marriage's future, which would have been fascinating to watch.  

22 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

Ed's proposal to renew their vows, and to fully understand what that MEANS, was the one part of the finale I liked.

On 7/21/2019 at 10:25 PM, peggy06 said:

Maddie runs true to form - Ed proposes a vow renewal in a heartfelt conversation. She immediately starts talking about having it on the beach, a big party. Probably already envisioning her dress. 

I would have much preferred that when Maddie immediately started in on the party celebration aspect, basically leaving behind the actual recognition of the sanctity of their (re-)union, that Ed just peaced-out, saying that she'll never change.  It's always been about what Maddie can gain from Ed and the marriage, not what she can give. 

I hated his proposal to renew their vows, especially since all we saw them do to work things out (and nothing else was referred to) was that one kooky marriage retreat and the one session with that therapist.  He was cuckolded for months and months, so his life with his wife was a lie day in and day out with him for months and months, and his step-daughter was in on it.  There's no way all that wasn't still weighing heavily on him.  Plus he concluded some very, very unflattering things about Maddie and her motivations.  But no problem, she prances around in her wedding dress, and all is right again.  Fully understanding what the vows mean is one thing...living them out every day of her life is another.  And other than in the near term, because she basically had a close call and almost lost everything, we haven't been given reason to believe that anything has changed for Maddie deep down where it matters.

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I can't believe how season 2 went from being really good (in my view) the first couple of episode into the festival of shit in the last episodes.  The courtroom drama was just stupid.  And then the vow renewal?  Did writers go on strike?  I don't expect the shows to be completely realistic, esp with courtroom scenes, but it was just embarrassingly bad.

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11 hours ago, stagmania said:

Mary Louise was trying to take her children. Do you really think Celeste should have been polite about it?

Agreed. Her lawyer sucked and I love that she found her strength to take over her case and fight for her kids. Fuck politeness as they say on mfm.

I think the point about the accident was that ML blamed Perry for his brother's death. How old was he? 5? That's child abuse. Glad ML drove off into the SF sunset.

These women all witnessed a horrible event, and were living with the lie.. And the aftermath of having to explain to the children about the rape- those scenes really upset me - I don't see them as having become weak. They were traumatized. But they seemed to pull themselves together at the end. 

I want a season 3 to see what happens after the confession. With the court and their husbands and the town.  I want to see Celeste get over Perry and her addiction to abusive men. And I want to see Renata really stick it to her asshole hubby in true Laura Dern style!!!!

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16 hours ago, slowpoked said:

To which Bonnie would say "That's why there was no interaction between us...because there wasn't any love to begin with...at least on my end."

Bonnie and Nathan lived together and raised a 7-year-old together. They must have interacted with one another, even if those interactions were cold.

But throughout both seasons, even before she killed Perry and went into that deep depression, we virtually never saw them together, to get any kind of sense of what their dynamic was.

 
 
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15 hours ago, Lemons said:

We would have exactly zero drivers on the road if no one has ever been distracted while driving.  A child starts screaming in the back seat and you turn around.  It wasn't Perry's fault or the mother's fault. 

If you let your child distract you while you're driving and you get into an accident, the blame falls on you. You have to keep your eyes on the road, or pull over if there's an emergency.

But even if it was just a completely understandable fluke, it still would have come up in court long before the judge was ready to make her ruling. If you're trying to get custody from a child's only parent, claiming that you're the better guardian, your past is going to be examined. And causing a car accident that killed a child - particularly a child in your care - is exactly the kind of thing that's going to come up.

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40 minutes ago, Lady of nod said:

I think the point about the accident was that ML blamed Perry for his brother's death. How old was he? 5? That's child abuse. Glad ML drove off into the SF sunset.

I'll just say that Celeste was repeating a second hand claim made by a guy who had no compunctions about beating the crap out of his wife.  His claim may have been entirely true, or it may have been just another way he manipulated Celeste.     

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10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Yup. The strategically placed bangs and side-sections of hair aren't fooling anyone. It's a damn shame too, she has stunning bone structure and would have aged beautifully IMO.

I wanted to clip back those two big strands hanging on both sides, lol.

 

Does anyone here think Bonnie told the husband she never loved him because she thought she would go to jail and didn’t want him to pine for her .. or what?

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1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

hated his proposal to renew their vows, especially since all we saw them do to work things out (and nothing else was referred to) was that one kooky marriage retreat and the one session with that therapist.  He was cuckolded for months and months, so his life with his wife was a lie day in and day out with him for months and months, and his step-daughter was in on it.  There's no way all that wasn't still weighing heavily on him.  Plus he concluded some very, very unflattering things about Maddie and her motivations.  But no problem, she prances around in her wedding dress, and all is right again.  Fully understanding what the vows mean is one thing...living them out every day of her life is another.  And other than in the near term, because she basically had a close call and almost lost everything, we haven't been given reason to believe that anything has changed for Maddie deep down where it matters.

THANK YOU.  That drove me insane!!  And her lame methods of trying to get back with him. Singing Natural Woman, dancing around in her wedding dress, I would watch Reese and wonder, "Did she forget how to act?"  Either she didn't have the ability to sell what she was saying or the writing for her and Adam was that atrocious. 

She seemed like she was sleep walking thru those scenes.  I just didn't buy any remorse, and Ed didn't even seem that pissed, like he'd been expecting it all along. 

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32 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

THANK YOU.  That drove me insane!!  And her lame methods of trying to get back with him. Singing Natural Woman, dancing around in her wedding dress, I would watch Reese and wonder, "Did she forget how to act?"  Either she didn't have the ability to sell what she was saying or the writing for her and Adam was that atrocious. 

She seemed like she was sleep walking thru those scenes.  I just didn't buy any remorse, and Ed didn't even seem that pissed, like he'd been expecting it all along. 

Ha, she cheated and after months of processing it, a crummy wedding gown made him cave?  Come on now.  What a quick snow job.

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37 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

 Singing Natural Woman, dancing around in her wedding dress

Actually, I believe she was singing the song that Ed picked out for the wedding, which was Everybody Wants to Rule the World (and as I mentioned last episode, WTAF is up with choosing that song for a wedding????)

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Was I the only one who expected Celeste to crash the car on her way to court with the boys? They'd emphasized ML's accident so much and then we practically followed Celeste all the way from home to the court.

When that didn't happen, I remained wary of all the other car scenes. For a moment, I even wondered if the headlights Bonnie was seeing at the police station were ML's and ML would crash into her, ending both their lives and the mystery/guilt tripping over Perry's death.

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Was listening to The Watch podcast and they discussed BLL season 2.

One guy said they scaled Madeline’s character way back in favor of a lot of screen time for Bonnie.  He said no offense but he didn’t care about Bonnie’s story and said Reese is one of the most important actresses of her generation so it’s a big mistake to scale back her role.

Didn’t notice it but is true, after the first couple of episodes, there was far more time given to Bonnie sitting by her comatose mother and thinking too much about her mother and her upbring8ng,

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1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

Actually, I believe she was singing the song that Ed picked out for the wedding, which was Everybody Wants to Rule the World (and as I mentioned last episode, WTAF is up with choosing that song for a wedding????)

I meant in the car driving to the couples thing where they had to hug people. 

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On 7/22/2019 at 8:39 PM, izabella said:

From what we have seen of Celeste, she will feel terrible and would blame herself for staying with her abusive husband too long and not getting the kids away from him sooner. 

From what they showed, she wasn't all that great a mother. She continued the trend by bringing home random men for rough sex.   It always cracks me up when the friends say "of course you're a great mother!!!".  

 

On 7/22/2019 at 10:11 PM, stagmania said:

Mary Louise was trying to take her children. Do you really think Celeste should have been polite about it?

How about blaming the father for walking out.  Everyone always blames the mothers.  

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24 minutes ago, scrb said:

ne guy said they scaled Madeline’s character way back in favor of a lot of screen time for Bonnie.  He said no offense but he didn’t care about Bonnie’s story and said Reese is one of the most important actresses of her generation so it’s a big mistake to scale back her role.

If they had taken time to plan this season out, and maybe added an episode or 2, they could have really fleshed out Bonnie's childhood and her mother's abuse, as well as go into more details of Madeline cheating and maybe show she & Ed really struggling. Ed should have moved out and made her really worry if he was going to divorce her.  Maybe she runs into the director somewhere and Ed happens to see them talking and thinks she's still lying. 

There is no reason to cut back on any of the characters, but seeing as how Bonnie is carrying the weight of what happened, she deserved to have screen time. 

This is like a less bad, but still unnecessary as Season 2 of True Detective. 

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13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Yup. The strategically placed bangs and side-sections of hair aren't fooling anyone. It's a damn shame too, she has stunning bone structure and would have aged beautifully IMO.

She is 52.  In this series she was playing a character at least 10 years younger than her own age.  She probably believes that she won't continue to get cast if she doesn't have the work done.  The whole reason that Kidman and Witherspoon went in as executive producers on BLL was that they weren't getting decent parts.  What should they do - age beautifully and give up the jobs they like and are good at?

If Madeline's presence was cut in favor of Bonnie, maybe a big part of that was how much of a cypher Bonnie was in Season 1.  Her background was ignored so that when she's the one who pushes Perry, you don't really know why she reacted that strongly.

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2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'll just say that Celeste was repeating a second hand claim made by a guy who had no compunctions about beating the crap out of his wife.  His claim may have been entirely true, or it may have been just another way he manipulated Celeste.     

I wish I hadn't deleted the episode so I could watch that part with ML on the stand again.  Did she deny that she blamed Perry for his brother's death?  I thought she denied hitting the kids, but not that she blamed Perry.  Even when she showed up at Celeste's house, she was mad about how unfair it was that Celeste had said she had hit the boys, but again, not that she denied she had blamed Perry.

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3 minutes ago, Lemons said:

Do you really think Celeste should have been polite about it?

I would have told Mary Louise to get the fuck away from my house, stay away from my children and if you don't, the sheriff will be delivering a restraining order. 

And I sure as fuck wouldn't send my children over to hug Grandma. They know Grandma is trying to take them away from their mother. 

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26 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

If they had taken time to plan this season out, and maybe added an episode or 2, they could have really fleshed out Bonnie's childhood and her mother's abuse, as well as go into more details of Madeline cheating and maybe show she & Ed really struggling. Ed should have moved out and made her really worry if he was going to divorce her.  Maybe she runs into the director somewhere and Ed happens to see them talking and thinks she's still lying. 

There is no reason to cut back on any of the characters, but seeing as how Bonnie is carrying the weight of what happened, she deserved to have screen time. 

This is like a less bad, but still unnecessary as Season 2 of True Detective. 

That's the thing though, I'm not convinced the writing was bad.  We got all these snippets of stories and kind of insulting red-herrings, and very little ever paid off.  Meanwhile, tons of flashbacks and staring  at the ocean scenes, and episodes that came in at around 45 minutes.

I think Vallee slashed the heart out of the director's (and writers, including the author) vision, after it was all shot, then threw in a bunch of his previous scenes, did a 17 day reshoot to make it look "more like season one" and cut the crap out of anything that would have fleshed out, for example, Bonnie's mother, or Maddy's marriage, or frankly, ANYTHING. 

I was listening and reading reviews yesterday.  They are pretty universally bad, praising the acting only.

The one that has stuck with me though?  Some nobody on youtube, nice enough guy, but I've never heard of him.  Anyway, he said something like  "this show would have never been approved to air, even  as a LIFETIME movie, it was preposterous" and the only thing it had going for it was the cast.

Aw heck, I can't say it better than he did, so I'll just link it.  From the "trial" to the set up, to any kind of realistic resolution, to red herrings, that it was just bad.  It's short, and frankly, he makes very good points.

Edited by Umbelina · Reason: lifetime movie
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1 hour ago, Lemons said:

From what they showed, she wasn't all that great a mother. She continued the trend by bringing home random men for rough sex.   It always cracks me up when the friends say "of course you're a great mother!!!".  

She was constantly thinking of sex one way or another.  She always plays parts with lots of sex.  I identify her with that.  Remember “Eyes Wide Shut”?

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20 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

She was constantly thinking of sex one way or another.  She always plays parts with lots of sex.  I identify her with that.  Remember “Eyes Wide Shut”?

She is also a bit embarrassed that her husband’s (Keith Urban) song about her (Gemini) talks of her being “a maniac in bed”. 

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I hope for everyone's sake they skip a season three. They should have quit with one season because everyone won that way - great story, great acting, satisfying ending. I understand the temptation when you have great actors who gel, plus the addition of a legend, but this was kind of like the second season of True Detective all over again - No! Please! Make. It. Stop.

Whether it was bad/lazy writing or editing, I don't know. But the storyline was weak and unfocused. I am with those that felt like Renata was cartoonish (her continuous shrieking and temper tantrums made her look pathetic) and Bonnie's mother was a useless plot point. Again, I think they could have left that entire storyline out and if they wanted more Bonnie time, focus on what it was like to be the one to make fatal contact with Perry. The minute they had Corey at the police station, it smelled like a set up. Even though I didn't care much for the actor/character, I would have been down with Jane dipping her toes into the relationship water, but this was just a stupid red herring. And don't get me started on the court scenes or any of Madeline's stuff. Just ugh.

I'm not sure why they went with the second season, other than they reeled Meryl Streep in and everyone else couldn't resist. Just a great example of casting isn't everything.

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37 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

She is also a bit embarrassed that her husband’s (Keith Urban) song about her (Gemini) talks of her being “a maniac in bed”. 

How lovely!  Like the world wants to hear that.  Who cares Keith?

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6 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I hated his proposal to renew their vows, especially since all we saw them do to work things out (and nothing else was referred to) was that one kooky marriage retreat and the one session with that therapist.  He was cuckolded for months and months, so his life with his wife was a lie day in and day out with him for months and months, and his step-daughter was in on it.  There's no way all that wasn't still weighing heavily on him.  Plus he concluded some very, very unflattering things about Maddie and her motivations.  But no problem, she prances around in her wedding dress, and all is right again.  Fully understanding what the vows mean is one thing...living them out every day of her life is another.  And other than in the near term, because she basically had a close call and almost lost everything, we haven't been given reason to believe that anything has changed for Maddie deep down where it matters.

Agreed, not to mention how will he react when he finds  out Maddie lied out covering up Perry's death? She's still lying, how can he ever trust her again?

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2 hours ago, teddysmom said:

I meant in the car driving to the couples thing where they had to hug people. 

Oh teddysmom, I had managed to forget that dreadful scene, but now you've put it back in my head!  So now, of the few scenes we saw of just Maddie and Ed, at least half/a third (?) of them featured that kind of nonsense...unacceptable.

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7 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Ed's proposal to renew their vows, and to fully understand what that MEANS, was the one part of the finale I liked.

She got off pretty easy for what she did.  Did he neglect her, or what?  What was her reason for cheating?

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3 hours ago, meep.meep said:

She is 52.  In this series she was playing a character at least 10 years younger than her own age.  She probably believes that she won't continue to get cast if she doesn't have the work done.  The whole reason that Kidman and Witherspoon went in as executive producers on BLL was that they weren't getting decent parts.  What should they do - age beautifully and give up the jobs they like and are good at?

Like it or not she's going to be replaced by younger women for roles that call for young mothers or when they need a couple who are supposed to be about 30 years old.  When actresses get too much work done people end up staring at it distracted.  I was staring at her mouth it was so odd looking the way it jutted out.

If they are that good and that powerful they need to be creating good stories for women of all ages.  Notice the only woman who was supposed to be  older was the villain.  

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Celeste was past childbearing age, so I don't think she was playing 42 years old, because if she was, she could have still had kids.  I thought she was at least 46 on the show.  Either way, in real life she has children the age of the boys, so I didn't think she was miscast in this.

I enjoyed all the women so much...the plot?  Not so much.

Speaking of "the plot," check the media thread, looks like one of the things Vallee may have cut was the death of a lead character...so maybe those weren't all death red herrings at all.

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5 hours ago, teddysmom said:

If they had taken time to plan this season out, and maybe added an episode or 2, they could have really fleshed out Bonnie's childhood and her mother's abuse, as well as go into more details of Madeline cheating and maybe show she & Ed really struggling. Ed should have moved out and made her really worry if he was going to divorce her.  Maybe she runs into the director somewhere and Ed happens to see them talking and thinks she's still lying. 

There is no reason to cut back on any of the characters, but seeing as how Bonnie is carrying the weight of what happened, she deserved to have screen time. 

This is like a less bad, but still unnecessary as Season 2 of True Detective. 

Oh my god! She had so much screentime I was literally shouting "Get off!" like a loon at my TV every time she drearily came back on in the last two episodes. Sooooooo many hospital scenes, so, so so many hospital scenes; and so much of the entire seven episodes of season 2 was Bonnie walking drearily around being guilty and depressed and shut down.

She was the dullest character in season 1, and I did not need to see more than a few flashes of her feeling bad in season 2, and being dull as usual, and I certainly did not need to see her extended, endless backstory with her mother - seemingly to 'explain' why she booted Perry, which I thought a fair reaction anyway - and I sure as hell did not need to see the more interesting courtroom scenes chopped up to return to her stroked-out mother, or all the omg, Bonnie is going to kill her mother!/confess re her role in Perry's death! fakeouts.

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5 hours ago, izabella said:

I wish I hadn't deleted the episode so I could watch that part with ML on the stand again.  Did she deny that she blamed Perry for his brother's death?  I thought she denied hitting the kids, but not that she blamed Perry.  Even when she showed up at Celeste's house, she was mad about how unfair it was that Celeste had said she had hit the boys, but again, not that she denied she had blamed Perry.

I watched the scene again.  She denies that she blamed him. 

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18 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Does anyone here think Bonnie told the husband she never loved him because she thought she would go to jail and didn’t want him to pine for her .. or what?

I think that Bonnie choosing Nathan was similar to Maddie choosing Ed. Bonnie and Maddie were looking for a partner who was not XYZ. Maddie wanted someone who wasn't like Nathan, someone who would abandon her and their child(ren). Bonnie wanted someone who wasn't like her mother, someone who would physically abuse her. She also didn't want someone who was like her father who was too passive to stand up when someone he loved was being wronged. I think in both cases, there were certain characteristics they were looking for in their partners that outweighed everything else.

15 hours ago, izabella said:

I wish I hadn't deleted the episode so I could watch that part with ML on the stand again.  Did she deny that she blamed Perry for his brother's death?  I thought she denied hitting the kids, but not that she blamed Perry.  Even when she showed up at Celeste's house, she was mad about how unfair it was that Celeste had said she had hit the boys, but again, not that she denied she had blamed Perry.

Celeste: I cannot imagine the trauma of losing your child in an automobile crash. It must have been unspeakably devastating for both you and for Perry. 
Mary Louise: It was. 
Celeste: How old was Perry at the time?
Mary Louise: He was five.
Celeste: Five years old. To witness his brother die, his only brother. Did you put him into therapy to deal with the trauma?
Mary Louise: In those days, we were less inclined to outsource our children's pain.
Celeste: So, you assumed that role, did you? Attending to Perry's trauma?
Mary Louise: Yes, I did. 
Celeste: And you talked to him? You consoled him?
Mary Louise: Yes.
Celeste: Held him?
Mary Louise: All of the above. Yes.
Celeste: Blamed him? Did you ever blame him for causing the car to crash? 
Mary Louise: I most certainly did not.
Celeste: Did you ever accuse him of distracting you? Did you ever say to him, "Look what you made me do"?
Mary Louise: No.
Celeste: No? So if Perry were to have told me that you blamed him for his brother's death-
Farber: Objection, hearsay.
Judge Cipriani: Overruled.
Celeste: If Perry were to have told me that you punished him, you even emotionally battered-
Mary Louise: I never ever battered him!
Celeste: If he told me that you said to him, "This is your fault. It is your fault that your brother was killed-"
Mary Louise: Stop it. 
Celeste: If you were to have said that, did you ever hit him?
Mary Louise: No, no. 
Celeste: Did you ever kick Perry? 
Mary Louise: I never-
Judge Cipriani: Mrs. Wright-
Mary Louise: That's a lie! That's a lie!

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On 7/23/2019 at 10:31 AM, LuvMyShows said:

Nicole's performance seemed very one-note.

That is because she cannot move her face.

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I was half expecting the last scene to be of all 5 women watching the detective's response after the truth was told and her glaring, serious loom changes to an understanding smile as she clicks her lighter shut and says "Oh is *that* all!? I'll be darned.. Guess my boss was right 🙂"

The 5 women share an exasperated "are you serious? We've been keeping this secret all year for nothing!?" face before the scene fades to black.

Would've been a good laugh for such a draining season.

Edited by Eri
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I've been thinking about the finale since Sunday.  My immediate reaction was a bit of puzzlement.  During the rainy, nighttime driving scenes, I expected Bonnie or ML to crash.  It turned out to be pretty much the same ending as Season 1, with all the women together, but this time we weren't privy to their state of mind (other than the fact that they seemed together and at peace with their decision).  They seemed to be all on the same page about confessing, but who knows how that will work out?  The drama surrounding the director this season is the reason for some of the confusion.  Why were we shown so much about Bonnie's Mom and drowning and then no one drowned.  What were those shared premonitions about anyway?  I also think that logically Ed would have been angry about this secret when he learned about it.  I assume Madeline revealed to him why she was racing off to the PD.  On top of their renewal vows, it seems anti-climactic to me.  Same with Celeste retaining custody only to head off to the PD to confess to obstructing justice.  Seems like ML would turn the car around and file a new appeal!  With Bonnie and Jane, it made a bit more sense.  Clearly Bonnie had told Nathan and Corey already knew something was up.  I enjoyed the acting and the beautiful scenery.  But I found the writing and/or the editing to be weak and choppy this season.  

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On 7/23/2019 at 1:38 PM, Efzee said:

Was I the only one who expected Celeste to crash the car on her way to court with the boys? They'd emphasized ML's accident so much and then we practically followed Celeste all the way from home to the court.

You were definitely not the only one! They even shot Celeste driving in profile, showing the full view out of the driver's side window, which you virtually never see in films or TV unless the car is about to be t-boned.

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On 7/23/2019 at 9:51 AM, LuvMyShows said:

Actually, I believe she was singing the song that Ed picked out for the wedding, which was Everybody Wants to Rule the World (and as I mentioned last episode, WTAF is up with choosing that song for a wedding????)

Worst wedding song EVER.  That would be a red flag and deal breaker for me.

After a rewatch I'm starting to see Ed in a whole new light.  Nathan was right about one thing, Ed's always been very snide, with an aloof unfriendly air about him, except when Bonnie's around.   Whether he actually likes Bonnie or is just going for a two-fer is debatable.

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I don't have kids but I couldn't imagine a child Ziggy's age having that heart-to-heart with his mom on the beach. Boys that age don't have any use for romance, so Ziggy offering sage counsel and saying "you should be with him" just seemed overly precocious. Although I don't know for sure - do kids talk like that nowadays?

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