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CuriousParker

Book vs. Series: On The Shelf

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Philip was a dick and I hated that entire story but unless I'm misremembering,  I also don't think he raped Marina as much as she was willing but put no effort to enjoy it and he felt dickish about her reaction to sex which is why he stopped trying.  So he had at least that going for himself. 

But the book was definitely the worst of the lot and unless they fix a lot of issues, I have zero interest in Eloise's supposed love story.  Which sucks. 

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He did not rape Marina, but he basically felt as he did after a very unresponsive encounter after the twins' birth. I don't feel Phillip was a dick at all. He wasn't perfect and he wasn't the best father to his kids, but that was because he was frozen due to his fears of being a terrible abusive father like his was. He was no worse than any of Quinn's heros that I remember. While The Viscount Who Loved Me was a great read, Phillip couldn't enter the same dick contest level with Anthony. And frankly, "not the best father" is viewed through today's prism more than the that time periods. 

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I'm actually totally okay with Daphne and Simon's story as a couple being concluded. As a romance reader, I'm used to it. HEA and done.

But! I am sad that this means Simon won't be playing pall mall. His hilarious asides add so much to that scene. I'm sure they'll slot in Benedict or whoever and they'll be great, but it's a downer for sure. 😞

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17 minutes ago, Jane Tuesday said:

I'm actually totally okay with Daphne and Simon's story as a couple being concluded. As a romance reader, I'm used to it. HEA and done.

But! I am sad that this means Simon won't be playing pall mall. His hilarious asides add so much to that scene. I'm sure they'll slot in Benedict or whoever and they'll be great, but it's a downer for sure. 😞

Besides missing the pretty, the Pall Mall scene is where I’ll really miss him. It would be nice if the actor was able to just film those scenes. 

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Pall Mall was the first to thing to pop to my mind when I read the announcement as well. 😞

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9 hours ago, Callietwo said:

But the book was definitely the worst of the lot and unless they fix a lot of issues, I have zero interest in Eloise's supposed love story.  Which sucks. 

I just can't square the Eloise I've seen on the show with what her apparent Book fate is. Essentially Maria from the Sound of Music, minus the music and Young Christopher Plummer's sex appeal? No way.

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5 hours ago, Jane Tuesday said:

I'm actually totally okay with Daphne and Simon's story as a couple being concluded. As a romance reader, I'm used to it. HEA and done.

But! I am sad that this means Simon won't be playing pall mall. His hilarious asides add so much to that scene. I'm sure they'll slot in Benedict or whoever and they'll be great, but it's a downer for sure. 😞

I get it. RJP was approached with a one year role that has made him a break out star. The producers want to focus on the next couple in the series. I'm a little sad but OTOH this means they don't have to come up with a lot of side plots that create some interesting drama but not *too* much to spoil their HEA and whilst there's a lot of soapiness going around they aren't really a continuing family saga like say Downton Abbey. Creatively and practically speaking going from male lead to male supporting character is more difficult than the other way around. I'm sad we won't get Simon in the Pall Mall game which is a very memorable scene and potentially mining some of the epilogue stuff - but even that would have had to wait a couple of seasons. 

It's easier for Daphne to just happen to be visiting Bridgerton House or supporting her family as they host the Ton at Aubrey Hall and say "Simon's just overseeing his estate right now" but even PD might want to move on sooner or later because Daphne doesn't have a great deal to do in the later books and there's only so much she can do in a romance series without her husband there at all and *if* a lot of S3&4 potentially still takes place in houses and parts of the country she's nowhere near. 

As a romance reader as well, it's really interesting to see show deal with the issue of a series of books about a family where as you go down the series minor supporting characters at the beginning eventually get their own books and you barely see the couple from the first book that started you off afterwards. 

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21 hours ago, bijoux said:

Pall Mall was the first to thing to pop to my mind when I read the announcement as well. 😞

Me too!  I am praying since he is doing a Shondaland project that they will sneak him in for that one scene.  If they can do that I will be able to tolerate the decision

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Kate, Edwina, and Mary are all played by lovely ladies so I'm even more convinced that they'll go for a minimal effect on Kate's style. I know they're describing Mary as Kate's mother but I think it's just a shorthand. Also Mary is her mother she just didn't give birth to her so there's not really a need to get technical in an announcement tweet.

I did enjoy playing Spot The Derry Girls actor with Calam. No idea who Theo and Jack are supposed to be but I'm guessing Theo may be Mr Bagwell with a new name while Jack is the mysterious Featherington heir. Should be fun.

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On 4/2/2021 at 4:45 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I just can't square the Eloise I've seen on the show with what her apparent Book fate is. Essentially Maria from the Sound of Music, minus the music and Young Christopher Plummer's sex appeal? No way.

I can't see it either.  In the books she's been writing Phillip and he seems nice.  She's sure that she's going to go off and live with Penny and be happy spinsters and she gets shaken by Penny who she just assumed wouldn't ever find someone happy in love and she takes off to go marry a guy she's never met.  It just doesn't work with who show Eloise is. 

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Show Eloise is a teenager.  In the book she's much older, so I can see a more mature and more lonely Eloise going in that direction.  She didn't plan to fall in love with Philip, she was just sad and lonely and had her tether cut when Pen and Colin got together.  It was a surprise to her that she came to care for Philip so much.  I can see it if they set up her personality growing and changing, and maybe slip in some subtle hints about the correspondence.

 

I was trying to figure out if Jack was the name of Francesca's first husband, but I remember now that she's still too young, unless they skip a lot more than one year before season 2.  

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Francesca's first husband's name was John. So, it's basically the same name. I mean, it could be him. I know she's still unmarried at the time of Benedict's book, but there's no reason the show can't push her first marriage to her first season or something. Meet her first husband in season 2, marry him the following social season off screen when she's out. 

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10 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Kate, Edwina, and Mary are all played by lovely ladies so I'm even more convinced that they'll go for a minimal effect on Kate's style. I know they're describing Mary as Kate's mother but I think it's just a shorthand. Also Mary is her mother she just didn't give birth to her so there's not really a need to get technical in an announcement tweet.

BRB, having minor conniption over Shelley Conn being old enough to be playing a mother in this...

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2 hours ago, Llywela said:

BRB, having minor conniption over Shelley Conn being old enough to be playing a mother in this...

Remember, during this time women were "out" at 16, married by 18, and a mother by 20.  

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4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Remember, during this time women were "out" at 16, married by 18, and a mother by 20.  

I've been telling myself that. I'm still having the conniption. Damn, where do the years go?

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43 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Remember, during this time women were "out" at 16, married by 18, and a mother by 20.  

I had a sister that was a grandmother at 37 and a coworker who was a grandmother at 34, so Shelley Conn playing a mother at 44 seems pretty natural.

I don't know that I've heard of her before, and based on her wiki, she's been around for over 20 years.  Just not in the kind of things I tend to watch, I guess.  

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To clarify, I know that technically Conn is old enough to play a mother here. It's just that she's an actress I'm familiar with, but more for stuff she was in years ago rather than recently, so I associate her with those younger roles, which is why the casting here gave me a moment of, 'hang on, she's not as old as that, is she? Where did the years go???'

And since she is in fact about my age, I was (mostly) being facetious. 😉 

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On 4/6/2021 at 10:41 AM, Llywela said:

To clarify, I know that technically Conn is old enough to play a mother here. It's just that she's an actress I'm familiar with, but more for stuff she was in years ago rather than recently, so I associate her with those younger roles, which is why the casting here gave me a moment of, 'hang on, she's not as old as that, is she? Where did the years go???'

And since she is in fact about my age, I was (mostly) being facetious. 😉 

I had that reaction when I realized Winona Ryder was playing Spock's mother in Star Trek.

Edited by methodwriter85
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So do we think they'll follow the books?  Or do we think they might change things up?  With Simon not coming back, I almost wondered if they might try to replace Francesca's story with Daphne.  Make her the widower who gets into a relationship with Simon's cousin?

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On 3/7/2021 at 3:53 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Unless the plan is to completely overhaul Sophie's part of the story I can't see Madame Delacroix being anything more than Benedict's former mistress. A huge part of Sophie's story is that she's poor, steals from Araminta when she runs away, and then the threat of discovery and arrest haunts her as she looks for work. Madame Delacroix is the most sought after modiste for the ton which includes Araminta and her daughters. If Madame D is meant to be Sophie then she'd already have been discovered. Until we see otherwise I believe the show will stick to each book as closely as possible.

I actually think Sophie's story would be a great way to show some racial issues. The evil step mother doesn't end up conceiving with Sophie's father.  It would be interesting/sad to see Sophie's step-people treat her badly and use her race as one of the  reasons especially when explaining to the daughters why they're better than she is.  There haven't been many asian actors in the show.  I'm down for Sophie being Asian, and exploring some race issues through her story.  It would give that much more satisfaction seeing the step mother getting her just desserts at the end of their season.  jmo

38 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

So do we think they'll follow the books?  Or do we think they might change things up?  With Simon not coming back, I almost wondered if they might try to replace Francesca's story with Daphne.  Make her the widower who gets into a relationship with Simon's cousin?

I think it's easy enough to hire a stand in for Simon and only show him playing with the children from a distance so we don't see his face.  

Edited by Meow25 · Reason: add
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On 4/2/2021 at 7:25 AM, Callietwo said:

Philip was a dick and I hated that entire story but unless I'm misremembering,  I also don't think he raped Marina as much as she was willing but put no effort to enjoy it and he felt dickish about her reaction to sex which is why he stopped trying.  So he had at least that going for himself. 

But the book was definitely the worst of the lot and unless they fix a lot of issues, I have zero interest in Eloise's supposed love story.  Which sucks. 

I actually enjoyed the book.  I am not a fan of Eloise, but the book was a fresh change of pace from the other books IMO.  It was nice to see something more "normal" for the time where the elusive love match wasn't the norm.  It was  a slow burn for Julia Quinn in contrast to the other books.  From being ready to be a spinster, to ready to get married to a suitable man who she could grow to like, to wanting to help and love her step children, to falling in love....I thought it was pretty fantastic.  Anthony's story was my favorite, but the Eloise story is right up there too.  I felt Phillip's issues were realistic considering what he's been through, he's polite, and the banter with the Bridgerton boys was great.  

Edited by Meow25 · Reason: grammar
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5 hours ago, Meow25 said:

It was  a slow burn for Julia Quinn in contrast to the other books.  From being ready to be a spinster, to ready to get married to a suitable man who she could grow to like, to wanting to help and love her step children, to falling in love....I thought it was pretty fantastic.  Anthony's story was my favorite, but the Eloise story is right up there too.  I felt Phillip's issues were realistic considering what he's been through, he's polite, and the banter with the Bridgerton boys was great.  

I agree.  The story wasn't the shock of electricity the first time they touched or an inability to get someone out of their heads.  It was two people learning one another. And Phillip was pretty terrible in the beginning.  But it was not malice.  A lot of it was fear and misplaced guilt. 

But the other reason I enjoyed To Sir Phillip With Love (particularly on re-reading) is that it has a lot of humor.  Eloise and the twins are pretty hilarious with the pranks.  And the interactions of the Bridgerton Brother's with Eloise* and Phillip's reaction to their interactions is fun. The shooting contest is almost as much fun as the pall mall trash talk.

 

*Most especially Eloise dismissing participation in her "saving" by now 22 year old Gregory, referring to him as an "infant."

Edited by RachelKM
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1 hour ago, Door County Cherry said:

So do we think they'll follow the books?  Or do we think they might change things up?  With Simon not coming back, I almost wondered if they might try to replace Francesca's story with Daphne.  Make her the widower who gets into a relationship with Simon's cousin?

They didn't follow book one exactly but mostly they did so I don't see them changing book two storyline TOO much.  We know they've changed the race of Kate, Edwina & the Stepmother whose name escapes me (Mary?).  Except for the Pall Mall scene (is that book two?) I don't think they really need to have Simon.  The only reason I'd want him to be there is for the actor himself, not the character.  

And though Francesca was basically a non-entity in season one, her book was one of my favorites so I'd prefer they left it with her own season.  

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2 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

So do we think they'll follow the books?  Or do we think they might change things up?  With Simon not coming back, I almost wondered if they might try to replace Francesca's story with Daphne.  Make her the widower who gets into a relationship with Simon's cousin?

I don't think they'll change the plot this much. There are plenty of stories left, no need to mess with Simon and Daphne's happy end for shits and giggles. Plus, these stories take place within a limited time period. If Daphne is there and Simon isn't, the most logical thing is for him to be at some estate farther away dealing with stuff. 

43 minutes ago, Callietwo said:

They didn't follow book one exactly but mostly they did so I don't see them changing book two storyline TOO much.  We know they've changed the race of Kate, Edwina & the Stepmother whose name escapes me (Mary?).  Except for the Pall Mall scene (is that book two?) I don't think they really need to have Simon.  The only reason I'd want him to be there is for the actor himself, not the character.  

There is also this. After book two, in which he is part of the Pall Mall scene, I can only remember him appearing towards the end of book four to help bring Penelope to light as Lady Whistledown and have her accepted as such by Society. His title and influence can easily be replaced by Anthony or perhaps Lady Danburry. He's just not relevant going on. 

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1 hour ago, bijoux said:

There is also this. After book two, in which he is part of the Pall Mall scene, I can only remember him appearing towards the end of book four to help bring Penelope to light as Lady Whistledown and have her accepted as such by Society. His title and influence can easily be replaced by Anthony or perhaps Lady Danburry. He's just not relevant going on. 

That is my recollections.  Even in book 4, you could accomplish most of it with Daphne.  She has a few scenes with Colin.  Colin and Daphne are one of the pairs in the family born back to back (Anthony/Benedict, Colin/Daphne, Eloise/Francesca, and Gregory/Hyacinth).  The ball could be accomplished without Simon.  At that point, Daphne would be 10 years a duchess (or however much time they decide passed) and able to give Pen the social support herself.  Plus, Landy Danbury is quite involved with that book.  She could also be brought into the fold at that point. 

Edited by RachelKM
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3 hours ago, Meow25 said:

I actually think Sophie's story would be a great way to show some racial issues. The evil step mother doesn't end up conceiving with Sophie's father.  It would be interesting/sad to see Sophie's step-people treat her badly and use her race as one of the  reasons especially when explaining to the daughters why they're better than she is.  There haven't been many asian actors in the show.  I'm down for Sophie being Asian, and exploring some race issues through her story.  It would give that much more satisfaction seeing the step mother getting her just desserts at the end of their season.  jmo

I never read the books so I have no idea who Sophie is, but I really don't want race to be part of the discussion in this show. I thought the whole conversation between Lady Danbury & Simon was unnecessary, & added a minor plot we didn't need. I don't have a problem with people being different races, I just want it treated as there are different races in the world, so there are different races in this world & it's just the way it is. JMO

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Subbing in Benedict in the Pall Mall scene is my guess for how they get around Simon. It’s a great scene but the point remains Anthony and Kate and the others are there to round it out. Nothing in the scene relies on Daphne or Simon specifically so one can be absent in the show.

3 hours ago, Meow25 said:

I actually think Sophie's story would be a great way to show some racial issues. The evil step mother doesn't end up conceiving with Sophie's father.  It would be interesting/sad to see Sophie's step-people treat her badly and use her race as one of the  reasons especially when explaining to the daughters why they're better than she is.  There haven't been many asian actors in the show.  I'm down for Sophie being Asian, and exploring some race issues through her story.  It would give that much more satisfaction seeing the step mother getting her just desserts at the end of their season.  jmo

Agreed and I hope they do this. Unrelated but I wonder if they’ll keep Sophie having short hair?

Regarding Rege I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the show again in a future season for a cameo or two. I bet they’d have done exactly that for season 2 if it weren’t for Covid so I’m not getting worked up about it. 

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11 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Regarding Rege I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the show again in a future season for a cameo or two. I bet they’d have done exactly that for season 2 if it weren’t for Covid so I’m not getting worked up about it

They threw money at him for a couple of cameos and he chose not to accept it, so his not being there has nothing to do with COVID.  His star is rising and he's chasing it.  Can't say I blame him, really.  

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From the Media thread:

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

The renewal isn't surprising, but I'd be curious to know if the plan is to go on with a book per season. The timing of first three books works for this, but since there are overlaps with books 4,5 and 6, I wonder what the plan is there

The first three books occur over about four years.  Anthony & Kate (1814) are the season after Daphne & Simon (1813), but then there is a bit of a gap.  Benedict meets Sophie at a masquerade in 1815, but then at least two years pass before they meet again. they finish their story in 1817.

Books 4-6 primarily take place in 1823 (10 years after The Duke & I).  They happen almost simultaneously. I believe that, technically the marriages of Colin & Pen, Eloise & Philip, and Francesca & Michael occur in the order of the books, 4, 5, & 6 respectively, but activities discussed in one happen in the background of the others - Eloise is writing her letters and planning her secret visit to Phillip during Romancing; Francesca is home visiting briefly during both (which I think is her run from Michael if I recall - haven't gotten around to re-reading Wicked).  Also, technically, the story of When he was Wicked begins in 1820 with the first marriage and I think she's known John for a good while when they actually marry.  So he could be at least mentioned in Benedict's season, though not seen for three more. 

Assuming they even want to bother with Francesca's book (the action happens away from London and the rest of the family), they could most easily moved it around.  Colin marrying Pen, if they follow the books, needs to occur before Eloise's story because it is the catalyst for saying yes to Phillip's idea.  They are also the only two books in which the passage of time is important because if feeds in to the changes of circumstances and attitudes of both Pen and Eloise, the maturity of Colin after his travels, and Pen's appearance in having attained an age in which her mother no longer chooses her dresses - over 25 and on the shelf. But they can just do a time jump and then let the two stories dovetail even though they air months or even a year apart.  

And by then the Florence Hunt (Hyacinth) should be old enough to be vaguely a teen in both and Gregory the same or at school. 

Edited by RachelKM
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They may have to recast they younger two if they are going to do 7 and 8 because they do need to be older by quite a few years.  More than the passage of time in production may take.

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Maybe if they do a time jump after series 3 they'll recast then? Maybe Francesca too? She's such a non entity in the first series and I'm not sure if they've any reason to feature her more in the next two though I'm sure her first marriage is going to feature somewhere. Maybe if they combine/rearrange books 4-6 they'll have a few episodes to include events of the time jump years. But for Penelope and Eloise they've cast older actresses and had them play younger for series one. I've no idea about the actress playing Francesca, she seems younger. Maybe they'll keep her but I'd say they're keeping their options open. 

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9 hours ago, cailinoBAC said:

Maybe if they do a time jump after series 3 they'll recast then? Maybe Francesca too? She's such a non entity in the first series and I'm not sure if they've any reason to feature her more in the next two though I'm sure her first marriage is going to feature somewhere. 

I thought it was really strange the way they handled Francesca in the first season, I wonder why they decided to have her be away while the younger kids were still shown a lot.

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Honestly, that seems pretty in line with the book series Francesca to me. She's pretty much a non-entity which is why I never felt very motivated to read her book. The same applied to Benedict. 

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13 hours ago, bijoux said:

Honestly, that seems pretty in line with the book series Francesca to me. She's pretty much a non-entity which is why I never felt very motivated to read her book. The same applied to Benedict. 

Not gonna lie, I didn't even register Francesca at the start of the season, or that she'd gone off on a trip, so all the way through I was puzzled why everyone said there were 8 Bridgerton children when I could only count 7. Then when Francesca came back, it was like a lightbulb moment for me!

Edited by Llywela

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16 hours ago, bijoux said:

Honestly, that seems pretty in line with the book series Francesca to me. She's pretty much a non-entity which is why I never felt very motivated to read her book. The same applied to Benedict. 

As much as Francesca was a total non-entity in the show AND the books prior to "her book", hers was the one I enjoyed the most.  I guess I'm wicked 😜

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Edmund has been cast! I hope for the flashbacks showing him as the best father ever and Anthony's hero and not his ghost showing up in the present day ala Grey's Anatomy.

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I'm counting on flashbacks for sure. Ed's last day. If they keep the scene with young Eloise weeping on the floor and get a good young actress, it's going to rip my heart out. 

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