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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

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I posted this comment in the GA/Canaries spinoff thread, but since it also relates to 809 (backdoor pilot)...

Maybe the kidnapped person (with ties to Mia) is an adult Sara Diggle who's no longer erased and now a member of the Canary Network. And maybe this Sara will be Mia's friend and a regular on the spinoff.

ETA: Also, what if those previously posted audition videos for "Bianca Scott" were actually auditions for the role of adult Sara Diggle?

Edited by tv echo

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1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Maybe the kidnapped person (with ties to Mia) is an adult Sara Diggle who's no longer erased and now a member of the Canary Network. And maybe this Sara will be Mia's friend and a regular on the spinoff.

ETA: Also, what if those previously posted audition videos for "Bianca Scott" were actually auditions for the role of adult Sara Diggle?

I wouldn't think that Sara would be the one kidnapped since we wouldn't have seen or known the connection, but Sara being "Bianca Scott" is something. Especially since they haven't delivered on that Sara Diggle reference they said they were going to have yet (although Crisis hasn't ended yet).

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From LMG's ama ("ask me anything") on dc comics reddit this morning...

Quote

Hi, loving crisis so far, what do you think of Oliver’s storyline in the lead up to and during crisis so far and are there any scenes you would’ve liked to have filmed as part of that story?

 
cosmicjuggernaut99...
I think it's one of the best storylines for Oliver to date. The stakes are extremely high, and we all know death is lurking around the corner. There's only so much time to tell the story with network tv. Commercials etc.. There's always more story to tell, but the writers did an amazing job with the time given..
 
Quote

Do you have any funny behind the scene stories you can share?

 
cosmicjuggernaut99...
I do, but too much to try and write out. It was the Monitor death scene day, and it involved David Ramsey. We had to cut multiple times because we all couldn't stop laughing. Mainly me. Haha
 
Edited by tv echo
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Hi Lamonica! Who’s your favorite actor to work with in the arrowverse and is there any other arrowverse character you would like to interact with?

 
cosmicjuggernaut99...
I've known David Ramsey for a while. We always have fun working together. Wish I could've worked with Kevin Conroy.
 
Edited by tv echo

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23 hours ago, way2interested said:

I wouldn't think that Sara would be the one kidnapped since we wouldn't have seen or known the connection, but Sara being "Bianca Scott" is something. Especially since they haven't delivered on that Sara Diggle reference they said they were going to have yet (although Crisis hasn't ended yet).

There was that never identified black lady with all the FTA including AS which some (including me) have hoped was Sara. It would be ideal to bring her back after Crisis, especially since it was Flashpoint which wiped her away. She and JJ could be twins. 

Edited by Featherhat
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One more LMG comment about an Arrow cast member from yesterday's dc comics reddit ama...

Quote

Good morning LaMonica! One question for you, what’s it been like working with Stephen Amell for a good chunk of time?!

 
cosmicjuggernaut99...
Very cool. One of my favorite scenes coming up is with Stephen. Hour 4.
 

Also, you can see Oliver (of course), but also Diggle, Rene and Dinah in this latest promo for crossover parts 4 (Arrow 808) and 5 (LoT 500)...

Edited by tv echo
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The Sara pics are screenshots from the newest crossover promo video (tweeted by SA yesterday) - some fan speculation...

Edited by tv echo
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I need to vent for a second and I can't do it in the Bitterness thread because it involves spoilers...

So, according to the latest COIE spoilers, Oliver dies twice in the crossover? Why does it always have to be Oliver who makes the big sacrifice? 😬

Edited by tv echo
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8 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I need to vent for a second and I can't do it in the Bitterness thread because it involves spoilers...

So, according to the latest COIE spoilers, Oliver dies twice in the crossover? Why does it always have to be Oliver who makes the big sacrifice? 😬

Not only that, but I have zero faith in him being recognized as a hero on a permanent basis from now on. Sure, spoilers point to a statue and what not, but I still expect to get snark/more flip-flopping from Laurel and Dinah moving forward (in 809 and possibly the spinoff) about him. And maybe stuff on The Flash, too. 

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6 minutes ago, tv echo said:

So, according to the latest COIE spoilers, Oliver dies twice in the crossover? Yet Barry is saved from death three times because three other people sacrificed themselves for him?!  😬

Agreed. I guess we kind of knew it was coming because there's that scene in the promo we haven't seen yet of Oliver looking like he's crying/dying and Barry is next to him, but it still sucks. Especially if this means Oliver isn't in episode 5. We already have to deal with next week's Arrow when it looks like he won't be in it. For a shortened season, it's very odd that they seem to be reducing the lead's screentime in the last few eps we have with him.

That being said, does this mean for Arrow that the speculation that Oliver spent 20 years as the Spectre is toast? I guess the paradise dimension ending could still be in play. It's still very confusing that the ep 9 description has Mia getting "everything she ever wanted" if the crossover leads into that ep this way. 

I'm still convinced he gets a happy-ish ending (mostly because of DR's comments) but I hope it doesn't feel rushed. 

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I’m annoyed that it looks like the Oliver-as-Spectre doing Spectre things for 20 years didn’t pan out. To me, it would’ve been a more interesting swerve than Oliver dying again like he was originally supposed to, but that’s so Arrow to dangle a better plotline and then ignore it for their original stupid plan. 

I do think the paradise dimension ending is still going to happen. Just probably not until the last 10 minutes of 810. 

Edited by lemotomato
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9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I’m annoyed that it looks like the Oliver-as-Spectre doing Spectre things for 20 years didn’t pan out. To me, it would’ve been a more interesting swerve than Oliver dying again like he was originally supposed to, but that’s so Arrow to dangle a better plotline and then ignore it for their original stupid plan. 

Yeah, I'm guessing they wanted to make sure Oliver at least ends the franchise as the mortal Green Arrow rather than swerve and allow Oliver to remain Spectre even though it would have been a good twist and made him de facto most powerful hero.

I'm just wondering how they'll tie 809 and 810 to all of this, Like, maybe 809 has essentially the same structure as the old 2040 except vigilantes aren't hated, letting Felicity and Mia stay in Star City and possibly letting Mia and William grow up together. And then 810 is another documentary to get around trying to make a full plot for the episode.

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Is this the actress people might be thinking is Sara Diggle? Because she's listed in the episode's still captions as Bianca Bertinelli. 

More pics

cGG6W8-Z.jpg-medium.jpeg

Edited by apinknightmare · Reason: changed link from GATV to SpoilerTV
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2 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm more wondering who Mia's engaged too with that giant ring in that one picture.

I can't tell if it's an engagement ring or just costume jewelry (paging @Mellowyellow) but she looks so good!

 

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If she's engaged, RIP to the poor soul she's engaged to/her relationship because surely that won't last for long.

Hopefully it's just costume jewelry.

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The black on black color palette is killing me. I thought Mia's suit was green?

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3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If she's engaged, RIP to the poor soul she's engaged to/her relationship because surely that won't last for long.

They'll probably do a *plot twist* to reveal it's JJ who's good now or something if that is an engagement ring

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

The black on black color palette is killing me. I thought Mia's suit was green?

It's definitely green

EOMM271W4AUTUZO?format=jpg&name=large

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I noticed that Dinah doesn't have her throat slash anymore. I wonder if she'll have a Canary Cry too so that she and Laurel can have the same name, the same cry, and the same weapons.

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1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I do think the paradise dimension ending is still going to happen. Just probably not until the last 10 minutes of 810. 

I think it's going to be something like that. I was kind of half and half on Oliver being Spectre for the next 20 years but I'm not surprised in the least he isn't. If 8x10 has the funeral or memorial in it they don't want half the people there to end up knowing he's an all powerful being elsewhere. And it fit with the playbook of this crossover, "you thought Oliver was going to die in the final battle, wrong! You thought he was going to be the Spectre from here on out, Wrong!"

And yup, we're not going to get confirmation of any "happy ending" until the end. IIRC Beth has said the portal Felicity went through comes back into play, so maybe it will be the other side of that. I have no doubt of some sort of Olicity reunion but they're going to make us work for it. 

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4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

She'll at least sing, so that's something to distinguish her from Laurel!

Until Laurel sings too!

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15 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I noticed that Dinah doesn't have her throat slash anymore. I wonder if she'll have a Canary Cry too so that she and Laurel can have the same name, the same cry, and the same weapons.

I think one of them's down for the sacrificial lamb at the end of the season. Why have two characters so similar that they have the same "regular person name" tm Jax, same alias, same power? I know they have a network they're both leading anyway but really the only difference is one is slightly snarkier and (intentionally) more antagonistic than the other and the hair colour. 

So the character we thought might be Sara Diggle is probably a new version of The Huntress.

Edited by Featherhat

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6 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

And yup, we're not going to get confirmation of any "happy ending" until the end. IIRC Beth has said the portal Felicity went through comes back into play, so maybe it will be the other side of that. I have no doubt of some sort of Olicity reunion but they're going to make us work for it. 

I think so too. My only concern is if 8x10 is going to the funeral/statue etc and really hope that doesn't mean Oliver will only be in the last 10 minutes or so. That'll make me resent them wasting an ep on the backdoor pilot even more. 

10 minutes ago, way2interested said:

She'll at least sing, so that's something to distinguish her from Laurel!

When I saw that pic of JH crooning at a piano, I LOL'd. (All of her IG stories have been leading up to this!) I can't believe that one of my fave guilty pleasures ever is ending and I have negative interest in watching its penultimate episode.

Edited by Trisha
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1 minute ago, Trisha said:

When I saw that pic of JH crooning at a piano, I LOL'd. (All of her IG stories have been leading up to this!)

LOL, me too. My secondhand embarrassment meter jumped right on into red. 

Quote

I can't believe that one of my fave guilty pleasures ever is ending and I have negative interest in watching its penultimate episode.

I think I'll be too curious about how the future turns out to not watch it, but hopefully they'll cover that in the first five minutes so I can just bloop right on out. I'm so sad - with Oliver not in the crossover much (and parts of it at all), then this...what a whimper to the end. 

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21 minutes ago, way2interested said:

They'll probably do a *plot twist* to reveal it's JJ who's good now or something if that is an engagement ring

It's definitely green

EOMM271W4AUTUZO?format=jpg&name=large

Thought of her being engaged to a man we've seen have a sword to her throat with intent to kill sounds disgusting to me. But some weirdos will find that Hot 🙄🙄. I remember KM implied a possible love triangle which will be gross if JJ and Connor stay brothers 

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1 minute ago, Josh371982 said:

Thought of her being engaged to a man we've seen have a sword to her throat with intent to kill sounds disgusting to me. But some weirdos will find that Hot 🙄🙄. I remember KM implied a possible love triangle which will be gross if JJ and Connor stay brothers 

Oh I think it's definitely one of the Diggle brothers, probably a plot twist about perfect son JJ so we can be shocked but then she meets bad boy Connor Hawke, who may or may not be a Diggle in this timeline...….. Or visa versa. 

If there is a triangle between them I can hope they're not brothers, hasn't Arrow learned from that mistake that made them change the entire outline of the show? Plus the character in the middle always ends up disliked. Sigh. 

If it's some rando he'll be dead before episode 2. 

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14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Until Laurel sings too!

Dont wish that on your worst enemy!

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57 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

So the character we thought might be Sara Diggle is probably a new version of The Huntress.

Yeah looks like it.  Am I misremembering? I thought Beth said something about the issue with Sara Diggle being addressed this season, but it hasn’t been, unless I missed it?  

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3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah looks like it.  Am I misremembering? I thought Beth said something about the issue with Sara Diggle being addressed this season, but it hasn’t been, unless I missed it?  

It probably will in the spinoff. We know the future kids all filmed but the CW PR seem to focus only on certain characters. 

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1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

Oh I think it's definitely one of the Diggle brothers, probably a plot twist about perfect son JJ so we can be shocked but then she meets bad boy Connor Hawke, who may or may not be a Diggle in this timeline...….. Or visa versa. 

If there is a triangle between them I can hope they're not brothers, hasn't Arrow learned from that mistake that made them change the entire outline of the show? Plus the character in the middle always ends up disliked. Sigh. 

If it's some rando he'll be dead before episode 2. 

Yep! You nailed another problem right on the head. I adore Mia. KM IMO did a great job with her being a great combo if her parents who just happen to be kickass heros. I dont want them to ruin her having her torn between brothers, bouncing between them etc. I gave VD cause of that shit and I grew to detest Elena also it grossed me out her choosing a Asshole who once had every intention of killing her brother in the early seasons 

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2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Is this the actress people might be thinking is Sara Diggle? Because she's listed in the episode's still captions as Bianca Bertinelli. 

More pics

cGG6W8-Z.jpg-medium.jpeg

So the possible new age Huntress?

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2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Until Laurel sings too!

Dueling pianos! Or maybe they’ll start a band, just like in the comics 🤪

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1 hour ago, Josh371982 said:

Yep! You nailed another problem right on the head. I adore Mia. KM IMO did a great job with her being a great combo if her parents who just happen to be kickass heros. I dont want them to ruin her having her torn between brothers, bouncing between them etc. I gave VD cause of that shit and I grew to detest Elena also it grossed me out her choosing a Asshole who once had every intention of killing her brother in the early seasons 

Yeah it was Elena I was thinking of, though it happens for all "middle" characters in a love triangle. And whilst I think both will be different this time around I can't shake the feeling they'll want it to be a juicy as possible, and they love Diggle bros at odds so......

CB is pretty in demand so whilst I can see him being recurring for a bit I'm not sure I see him as a regular. But they haven't exactly been forthcoming on any details of the non GA and Canary part of the cast, possibly because these aren't even set in stone yet. 

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah looks like it.  Am I misremembering? I thought Beth said something about the issue with Sara Diggle being addressed this season, but it hasn’t been, unless I missed it?  

She definitely said Sara Diggle will be addressed and a post COIE female lead spin off seems(ed) like a great place to do it. I think that is the actress who was posing with all of FTA (including Andrea Sixtos). Sara still might come up as JJs twin or older sister but not the "Bianca Scott" character. Sara could be mentioned in the finale of COIE or 8x10. Unless I also blinked and missed it she hasn't been mentioned at all before now. 

HQ has taken over BOP in the DCEU and a Green Arrow is leading a BOP-ish team on TV, that's a little weird and I'm not the biggest comic reader out there by far. 

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That picture of the three of them awkwardly posing...Was I supposed to laugh? Best of luck to anyone watching that. 😬😂

Also RIP Oliver Queen. You deserved better. 😔

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@Trisha it looks like Moira's ring to me! 

Usually people wear right hand rings if they want big bling and aren't engaged. Very rare to wear one on your ring finger. The only time you do that is when you've been married for a gazillion years, have a tonne of rings and the husband doesn't care about the wedding bands/engagement ring anymore cuz you upgraded from your original anyway 😂

I'd say most likely engagement.

 

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It still angers me that they seem tone deaf and insist on needing Laurel and Dinah to sell a Spinoff when there seem to be more that wouldve rather seen Mia Connor William and maybe even Zoe head the Spinoff. It's like JH and KC have serious dirt on the suits. I'm really hoping they get serious feedback saying that people prefer A full FTA spinoff over Mia sharing the screen with Laurel and Dinah.

Edited by Josh371982
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1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

That picture of the three of them awkwardly posing...Was I supposed to laugh? Best of luck to anyone watching that. 😬😂

Also RIP Oliver Queen. You deserved better. 😔

I can’t believe they published that one. It’s so bad. 😂

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10 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

So the possible new age Huntress?

Think she will be a new Canary, after all there is supposed to be a whole Network that needs filling. 

They were leaks about Bianca "Scott" sometime ago. 

Edited by CabotCove

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15 hours ago, Trisha said:

Agreed. I guess we kind of knew it was coming because there's that scene in the promo we haven't seen yet of Oliver looking like he's crying/dying and Barry is next to him, but it still sucks. Especially if this means Oliver isn't in episode 5. We already have to deal with next week's Arrow when it looks like he won't be in it. For a shortened season, it's very odd that they seem to be reducing the lead's screentime in the last few eps we have with him.

That being said, does this mean for Arrow that the speculation that Oliver spent 20 years as the Spectre is toast? I guess the paradise dimension ending could still be in play. It's still very confusing that the ep 9 description has Mia getting "everything she ever wanted" if the crossover leads into that ep this way. 

I'm still convinced he gets a happy-ish ending (mostly because of DR's comments) but I hope it doesn't feel rushed. 

No, he's not in next week's episode.  I doubt he even makes a cameo in that back door pilot based on TVLine's comments last year.  

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I still wonder how they're going to explain why Dinah and Laurel didn't age.

Sara Diggle could still be the kidnap victim.

Edited by tv echo
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KM is calling her character Mia Smoak-Queen now...

Edited by tv echo
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52 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I hope Beth is joking about the band...

UGH SHUT UP DAMIEN. I know I dont want Laurel and Dinah being at the Center of the Show. They dont interest me like Mia does. Guh I just want Olicity Princess that was Promised to be like her dad THE Main Character. What do JH and KC have on the Suits 🤔

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15 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

It still angers me that they seem tone deaf and insist on needing Laurel and Dinah to sell a Spinoff when there seem to be more that wouldve rather seen Mia Connor William and maybe even Zoe head the Spinoff. It's like JH and KC have serious dirt on the suits. I'm really hoping they get serious feedback saying that people prefer A full FTA spinoff over Mia sharing the screen with Laurel and Dinah.

This spin off as a whole reeks of desperation. It's Birds Of Prey but not quite and maybe a few years ago they could've had Laurel, Sara, Mari and Helena and done something with them and that would've been worth watching.

Mia is a pretty tedious character and I'm largely indifferent to Dinah. I like Laurel but this whole idea is four or five years too late and despite the DCEU Birds Of Prey being more of a Harley Quinn outing, it looks far more entertaining than this will be.

Edited by darkestboy
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