Season 21 Live Feed Discussion

[kellog010]

Nicole has won too much and is too well liked for Cliff to go with her to F2. I think he feels he can win against Holly or Jackson.

ETA: I don't think Cliff feels the jury is all that receptive to Jackson and he can make an compelling argument against him. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by kellog010

[Ellee]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

Nicole has won 3 comps, 2 of which were thrown to her.  Not exactly impressive. And she's been led around by Cliff; he can easily explain that truth in an F2 against her.  Plus, Cliff at least attempted a big move against the dominant alliance (that fell apart). Nicole hasn't done anything remotely gutsy like that.

I don’t remember when having comps thrown to someone being an issue with the jurors. Has it?  

Also wouldn’t there be an argument of who went out on who’s HOH? Or doesn’t that mean anything? 

I think I’d be a horrible juror.  LOL, like I’d make it that far. 😂

[kellog010]

Here is how I think the votes can go if it's Cliff vs. Jackson (this in Cliff's mind only - I don't think Cliff would win vs Jackson personally):

Cliff:

• Tommy - Cliff may think the way he left may sway him toward his vote
• Christie - Cliff may feel she will vote with Tommy 
• Nicole - will vote for him
• Jessica - because of how bitter she would be toward Jackson
• Nick - Nicole could influence his decision (plus Tommy being pissed at Jackson and the lie)

Jackson:

• Holly - will vote for him
• Sis - possibly will vote for him
• Kat  - will vote for him
• Jack - will likely vote for him

Whereas, if Nicole was with anyone in a final 2, because of her underdog story and the jury voting not on pure gameplay, I can see her getting these votes:

• Tommy - because he really likes her and her story
• Christie - she respects Nicole and her underdog status
• Jessica - she doesn't have a penis
• Nick - he was rooting for Nicole when he left
• Sis - because she was pissed at Jackson and Holly

That's just my feeling for now. Could change later. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by kellog010

[Lady Calypso]

12 minutes ago, Figster said:

Why do people think that Cliff is being truthful to Jackson? I mean it's totally nonsensical for Clif to bring Jackson to F2 over Nicole, so he's probably lying (to Jackson) and just covering his bases.  Seems pretty obvious to me.

Well, I'm not entirely sure about Cliff bringing Jackson to F2 (I'd like to think he would rather bring Nicole). But we KNOW for sure he's being truthful about bringing Jackson to F3 because Cliff told Nicole this. 

I did sleep on it and I woke up to finally have made a decision about Cliff: I am INFURIATED with him right now. Cliff's moves this season in general have been cowardly and "safe". Cliff is a selfish player. I can't deny that his moves haven't benefitted him, and I can't say that wanting Jackson in F3 is inherently wrong for him...if he can trust that Jackson would take him over Nicole. I do get Cliff's logic and he's playing the game to the best of his abilities. But the problem is that Cliff's gameplay has been messy. He has shown loyalty to mostly the wrong people. He seems ready to cut Nicole at any cost. But the other issue is that I haven't really seen him fight hard for Nicole, the ONLY person he can possibly beat in F2 besides Holly....and Cliff seems to want to bring JACKSON farther than Holly? JACKSON?

Cliff is handing Jackson the money right now, especially if he wins veto.

The one thing I'm glad about is that, since Nicole's HOH, if Jackson or Holly win veto, their only option is getting rid of Cliff and at this point, I wish I loved the guy, but I'd be happy to see him take fourth place. 

And if feels wrong for me to be so irritated by Cliff because I want more ruthless, cut-throat players. I want people to actually play the game for themselves, and Cliff's doing it. But I really am irritated and pissed off by Cliff. He disappoints me, he really does. 

10 minutes ago, Figster said:

Nicole has won 3 comps, 2 of which were thrown to her.  Not exactly impressive. And she's been led around by Cliff; he can easily explain that truth in an F2 against her.  Plus, Cliff at least attempted a big move against the dominant alliance (that fell apart). Nicole hasn't done anything remotely gutsy like that.

It really sucks because Nicole genuinely could have won last night's HOH if Holly didn't just drop the moment the live show ended. Nicole could have also made a power move to send Holly out the door, but Cliff got in the way of that.

Cliff, to me, has been ruining some really great plans left and right, and it's not even just recently. He's the one who also backdoored Bella. Sure, you can say it got him farther, but it really could have been a $500,000 mistake.

I have to accept that Nicole likely cannot win. Her best chances right now are against Cliff, and Cliff seems more interested in being up Jackson's ass and delivering him the $500,000 rather than being concerned about Nicole. And yes, I understand that Nicole is responsible for many of her poor moves. But I love the girl since she IS trying.

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, kellog010 said:

Whereas, if Nicole was with anyone in a final 2, because of her underdog story and the jury voting not on pure gameplay, I can see her getting these votes:

• Tommy - because he really likes her and her story
• Christie - she respects Nicole and her underdog status
• Jessica - she doesn't have a penis
• Nick - he was rooting for Nicole when he left
• Sis - because she was pissed at Jackson and Holly

That's just my feeling for now. Could change later. 

Jess would NEVER vote for Nicole, IMO. Jess HATES Nicole. She always has, and that's just further proven in that jury house video of her. Jess would rather vote for someone with a penis over Nicole. And we know Jess isn't a savvy player. 

[Dance4Life]

1 hour ago, Ellee said:

Jackson’s face said it all regarding the ‘lie’.  Someone said stone cold  and couldn’t be more accurate.  N/C had to realize who was telling the truth — not Jackson.  

Loved Tommy’s ‘good job’ when he said his good bye to Jackson.  

For as fake as I’ve always felt Tommy is/was, having him spend time with the jury was probably better for N/C in the sense that he will lay it all out.  Not only the lie but how everything worked from a game perspective.  I actually believe he will do a good job on all this.  Holly on the other hand would be all ‘Jackson, Jackson, Jackson’.  I mean ... Michie. 🙄

So next person out only is with the jury for the round table?

Any chance at all that Sunday’s show is the fight AND a glimpse of the jury?  Or is jury stuff only on Thursday night?

Found it unusual for Julie to ask her ‘one more question’ of Tommy.   Can’t believe I’m saying this but I won’t mind if Tommy gets AFP.

Cliff didn’t do himself any favors but we don’t know what all was said between C/N.  

Go, Nicole.  Go, Cliff.  Finish what you started.

Cliff didn’t care about any of that.  He wanted Tommy gone. 

Tommy is just getting a taste of his own medicine.  He did the same thing to Ovi.

They blindsided Ovi.  He was the first HG evicted with HOH and there was plenty of fresh bait to warm that eviction seat.

They were cruel to Ovi!

Tommy was playing everyone in the house....while maintaining security with 8 & 6 Alliance.

Why do you think he always like the Alliance......and, kept trying to get them back together after the blow-up?

Tommy loved playing the 2 faced gossip Rat!  That was his role! 

Made him feel important without being a frontline  target. 

He even tried to seduce Jack & Nick! 💋

Tommy was nobody’s friend!  He was only loyal to Christie.

This is what happened at the end.  It was all even and fair game for all!

There were 3 couples!

Christie & Tommy were the 1st eliminated.

This week we will see a battle between the 2 remaining couples.

Will they fight it out together......or, turn on each other....????

Jackson’s game last night.....was old school delicious BB.  When a HG gets intel.....and, figures out all by themselves how to get out of a pickle.  

This is what Christie did on Taco Tuesday with Nick.

It also got Sis (her close friend) sent home.

This is the type of scheming I like.  One-on-One. 

 Jackson heard 3 people might be coming for him!  

He caused confusion with the intel amongst all the HGs. 

He publicly called out a potential Alliance. This is how you play the game! 

The gang-ups and bullying....or, huge alliances against the weaker folks.  This is what is ugly.  Because, then you have people.....protecting disgusting people....like Jack.....and, nobody speaks out bc, they do not want to be a target.

This is the shit mess Tommy has been involved in ALL season!!!!  He still loves Jack & Nick!

[Tuxcat]

So is Jackson also planning to throw the veto to Cliff so Cliff can be the one to vote out Holly? We already know Holly is planning to throw it (stupidly). 

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

So is Jackson also planning to throw the veto to Cliff so Cliff can be the one to vote out Holly? We already know Holly is planning to throw it (stupidly). 

I doubt he is, but Jackson realizes that the veto is likely to be mental and he suspects that Cliff or Nicole might win it. 

Either way, Jackson has covered his bases, no matter who wins veto. Holly's keeping him, he's keeping himself, and now Cliff is keeping him. He'll definitely try to win it (I think he knows that he has an easier time beating Holly than Cliff, but he can still beat both) but if he doesn't win, then at least it's Holly out the door and not him. 

[Irishsecra]

Cliff said to the live feeders before bed last night that he will take Nicole to the F2 if he has the chance.

he says he hopes he didn’t make a mistake sending out Tommy instead of Holly.

how he knows he influenced Nicole to keep Holly and hopes it won’t hurt Nicole’s chances of getting farther in the game.

i think he genuinely cares for Nicole. He wants them together at the end 

[Dance4Life]

28 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Jess would NEVER vote for Nicole, IMO. Jess HATES Nicole. She always has, and that's just further proven in that jury house video of her. Jess would rather vote for someone with a penis over Nicole. And we know Jess isn't a savvy player. 

You are right!  Jess has every reason not to trust or like how Nicole acted regarding her own personal  game.

There are lots of fake ‘I love yous’ in this crowd!  So, no hard feelings.....between those 2.  I frankly think...only Tommy & Christie grew a genuine bond. 

Jessica is voting for Jackson to win if he makes F2.

Jess already told him.....when she campaigned.  She would give him the 500K.

I believe Jess won’t change her mind in Jury because during all of Jolly’s HOH.....they left her alone.  And, she actually had a ‘peaceful’ relationship with them.

Jolly were out frying bigger fish! 

When Jess left she already knew.....that it was because Cliff was in an Alliance with Jolly.

Holly- no-go.  When it came to game talk.....Holly was always snobby with her.

When Jess campaigned.....Holly would not budge against a stronger player....Cliff.

If anything Jess is very bitter against Cliff & Nicole.

She got booted out of Cliff’s Angels.  Left to fend for herself. 

Once again...Jess was left in the dark.

I mean......Jess...you gotta pay that electricity bill!  Turn on the upstairs light! 💡 

During that time she also transitioned to Tommy & Christie.  So, she had to go. 

Nicole was never on her side 100% from Day 1.  Camp Director.  It was Nicole...yeah....you can be CD....then turn on her .....fasssst!

Then Nicole wanted Kemi to stay...not Jess.

Then Nicole didn’t give her a heads up about .....there was no more Cliff’s Angels.

Once gain......jumped ship to Jackson’s dinghy. 

There that time when Nicole would not help save Kat...?????

Nicole is a true Floater! Which is valid in BB.  Let’s see where she ends up on F2 night.

Jackson might very well win this whole thing. 

I am coming around......because, they refused to get rid of him. 

They are gambling.  We shall see.

 There is a lot of game to be Played!

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

Cliff said to the live feeders before bed last night that he will take Nicole to the F2 if he has the chance.

he says he hopes he didn’t make a mistake sending out Tommy instead of Holly.

how he knows he influenced Nicole to keep Holly and hopes it won’t hurt Nicole’s chances of getting farther in the game.

i think he genuinely cares for Nicole. He wants them together at the end 

Well, that's good to know. I didn't realize that he said this....but why the hell does he still want Jackson, a comp beast, in F3 with him and Nicole? Cliff really wants to sit to Jackson and lose? 

I know, I know, he's just trying to get to F2 and Holly won't take him. But my god, it's such a stupid ass decision. At this rate, you aim to WIN, not aim for second fucking place. Hopefully, once the veto happens and Cliff gets a better idea of which of Jackson/Holly do better in mental comps, that he figures it out.

[Tuxcat]

14 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

Cliff said to the live feeders before bed last night that he will take Nicole to the F2 if he has the chance.

he says he hopes he didn’t make a mistake sending out Tommy instead of Holly.

how he knows he influenced Nicole to keep Holly and hopes it won’t hurt Nicole’s chances of getting farther in the game.

i think he genuinely cares for Nicole. He wants them together at the end 

I agree with the previous poster that said he is likely saying this to protect chances at AFP. He might care for her but he is savvy enough to know that his chances of being able to decide to "take someone" to F2 are fairly small. So he's covering himself by saying "if I get the chance." In the meantime, he's making sure that those who legitimately have a chance at being the final HOH (Nicole or Jackson) will take him.  By keeping Jackson in the game, he is in fact hurting Nicole's game. The only possible reason for keeping Jackson in the game is because it benefits him. If he kept Holly, she would likely take Nicole.

[Dance4Life]

10 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

Cliff said to the live feeders before bed last night that he will take Nicole to the F2 if he has the chance.

he says he hopes he didn’t make a mistake sending out Tommy instead of Holly.

how he knows he influenced Nicole to keep Holly and hopes it won’t hurt Nicole’s chances of getting farther in the game.

i think he genuinely cares for Nicole. He wants them together at the end 

Cliff has been driving Nicole’s game to benefit himself....  not her!

He just cannot help himself and already told us on the cameras.

Dude’s mind is just warped!  He has developed an unhealthy obsession with her....and, gets all kinds of creepy talking about her to us. 🤮

It is borderline Uncle Bad Touch!

This season....I don’t think the comps were nice.  They build these elaborate sets.....and, the comp itself was super cheesy.

Then they literally got rid of Slop!  

Instead BB rewarded Jackson with a luxury comp style winnings....of unlimited watermelon on-demand!

All the time......hey!  Are the watermelons I requested delivered????

Ok...maybe Jackson was diagnosed with Watermelon Pica when he saw the psychiatrist during his mental break while on Slop) 😘🍉

(it is a real illness) 

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, kz5 said:

You have to go back to the mindset early on in the game. The Cool Kids banished the POC.  They excluded and isolated Jess, Nicole, and Evicted Cliff. They labeled them all bottom feeders.  Jack ran the house and he is probably running the jury house too.  I don't see the 6 Shooters awarding the geeky girl or the old man 500K.  Jack may also feel bad for burning Michie. They ended on good terms and he may want to reward Michies HOH dominance and game play.  Also, most of the jury right now only saw Nicole as the floater every week.  

I agree with this.

5 hours ago, Nashville said:

Ordinarily I’d agree with this - but considering the unprecedented number of Production-initiated “behavior leaks” this season informing HGs of how poorly their in-House activities were being perceived by the outside world, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if the Jury saw its way to incorporate a degree of whitewash reparations into its deliberations.  😛 

But I could also see this.

3 hours ago, Sarah Heart said:

She hasn't promised Jackson anything, so if she wins Veto, he's going!

Nicole doesn't have a vote so Jackson is guaranteed to stay now. Unless Cliff wises the fuck up. The DR should tell him America would rather him vote out Jackson. Then he'd be sure to do it!

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Why do people think that Cliff is being truthful to Jackson? I mean it's totally nonsensical for Clif to bring Jackson to F2 over Nicole, so he's probably lying (to Jackson) and just covering his bases.  Seems pretty obvious to me.

He told Nicole that he wanted Jackson in F3 with them. Presumably he wouldn't lie to Nicole. Although, he has spent all season throwing Nicole under the bus and generally not giving a shit about protecting her so who knows.

40 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

At this rate, you aim to WIN, not aim for second fucking place.

The only thing Cliff has really been aiming for all season is AFP. But that's another reason why I just don't understand why he wants to take Jackson. He has to know that America would love to see him evict Jackson. 

I want Jackson to win veto. Either he evicts Cliff, which is fantastic because I hate Cliff and I want him to see how dumb he is, or he evicts Holly, which would be fucking nuts and hilarious and I wanna see Holly break down on live tv because I'm a bad person lol.

But I also kinda want Nicole to win veto because I really think she needs to win all the comps now to have a chance at winning the game.

Holly winning is OK because at least then Cliff goes.

So, basically I would only hate to see Cliff win veto so Cliff is definitely gonna win veto.

[Vixenstud]

12 hours ago, TimWil said:

It makes me think of that moment in Dallas when one of those very attractive but not very bright secretaries at Ewing Oil had a doomed fling with Bobby and they cried to JR “Why can’t I get Bobby to love me?” and JR drawled “Because you’re a whore, darlin’.

Gotdamn JR!

RIP JR Ewing, the baddest muhfucka ever!

[zscore]

I think Cliff, having seen how the jury went for the last few seasons, thinks that Jackson will be the "Paul" in F2. He might not be wrong. 

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

The only thing Cliff has really been aiming for all season is AFP. But that's another reason why I just don't understand why he wants to take Jackson. He has to know that America would love to see him evict Jackson. 

It's because Cliff is trying to secure himself in a position to get to F2. In his mind, Jackson and Nicole will take him. Holly won't. Cliff knows it'll be difficult to win parts 1 or 2 HOH if both are more physical. And I genuinely believe that Cliff thinks he has the potential to beat Jackson in F2 due to a bitter jury. 

I see his logic, 100%. I just don't agree with it and makes me want to root against Cliff for AFP. 

9 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I want Jackson to win veto. Either he evicts Cliff, which is fantastic because I hate Cliff and I want him to see how dumb he is, or he evicts Holly, which would be fucking nuts and hilarious and I wanna see Holly break down on live tv because I'm a bad person lol.

My hope is that either Jackson wins veto this week and evicts Cliff, Holly wins veto and evicts Cliff (and proves to Cliff that keeping Holly was a huge fucking mistake) or Jackson wins F3 HOH and evicts Cliff to take Nicole because Jackson likes her better. Nothing would please me more than any of these scenarios happening. 

I understand that Nicole is less likely to win the game now. I'm perfectly ok with her winning AFP AND $50,000.

Just now, zscore said:

I think Cliff, having seen how the jury went for the last few seasons, thinks that Jackson will be the "Paul" in F2. He might not be wrong. 

Honestly, I can't say never say never because there could be a possibility that Cliff gets five votes....buuuuuuuut......judging from what people said about Jackson in their exit interviews, including from Tommy himself, I really don't believe that Jackson can lose against Cliff.

Jackson would have Holly's vote. Jackson might have Kat's vote, but depending on the circumstances. Christie and Tommy would vote for Jackson because neither seem like bitter jurors, even after the House Meeting stuff. Nick would vote for Jackson 100% over Cliff. Jack would vote for Jackson, and Sis would likely follow suit. Jess...who knows where Jess' vote would lie, but probably with Jackson because Christie would ask her to. 

[Irishsecra]

One thing Cliff and Nicole talked about last night is how Cliff made the deal with Jackson to vote to keep Jackson if Cliff won POV.

Nicole said what if I win POV, does your deal cover that?

Cliff said no it doesn’t.

i still think if Nicole wins POV Cliff will vote out Holly if Nicole wants.

[zscore]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Honestly, I can't say never say never because there could be a possibility that Cliff gets five votes....buuuuuuuut......judging from what people said about Jackson in their exit interviews, including from Tommy himself, I really don't believe that Jackson can lose against Cliff.

You're probably right, but Cliff doesn't see the exit interviews. He probably thinks that Tommy will be super bitter and campaign against Jackson because the way he was treated at the house meeting 

[Tuxcat]

5 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

One thing Cliff and Nicole talked about last night is how Cliff made the deal with Jackson to vote to keep Jackson if Cliff won POV.

Nicole said what if I win POV, does your deal cover that?

Cliff said no it doesn’t.

i still think if Nicole wins POV Cliff will vote out Holly if Nicole wants.

Right. That's is the loophole. If Cliff wins, he has promised to keep Jackson and vote out Holly. If Jackson wins, he has promised to keep Cliff (which means vote out Holly...). Holly has promised to throw that veto. 

So-- to me it seems like no one will be trying for this veto (which is dumb if that happens) and Nicole will win. Then Cliff won't have to honor the deal and maybe he will come to his senses and vote out Jackson.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

No way - The jury is mostly six shooters; Jackson is still their boy.

Pretty much agree - fratboy rules are still largely in play.  Only way Cliff - or Nicole, for that matter - has a shot at winning is if they’re sitting beside each other at F2.

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Nicole has won 3 comps, 2 of which were thrown to her (and Cliff knows this).  Not exactly impressive. And she's been led around by Cliff; he can easily explain that truth in an F2 against her.  Plus, Cliff at least attempted a big move against the dominant alliance (that fell apart).

Cliff’s “BIG MOVE” didn’t simply collapse on its own; Cliff killed it himself, in favor of a lesser move which (at the time) bought Cliff a couple of weeks of relative safety.

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Nicole hasn't done anything remotely gutsy like that.

You mean it wasn’t Nicole who as HoH nominated Christie (also a head of one of the most dominant alliances in the House) side-by-side with her primary partner Tommy?  

And under whose HoH the previously 4-times-unevictable Christie was evicted?  

Gee, guess I’m getting old then - because I sure the fuck thought it WAS.

[Tuxcat]

2 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Right. That's is the loophole. If Cliff wins, he has promised to keep Jackson and vote out Holly. If Jackson wins, he has promised to keep Cliff (which means vote out Holly...). Holly has promised to throw that veto. 

So-- to me it seems like no one will be trying for this veto (which is dumb if that happens) and Nicole will win. Then Cliff won't have to honor the deal and maybe he will come to his senses and vote out Jackson.

And production will think.... why do we keep bothering to set up these comps when you all keep deciding the winner before it even happens?

[peachmangosteen]

17 minutes ago, Sarah Heart said:

Nicole wins veto, and leaves Jackson on the block.

But only if he decides to use the loophole that his word to Jackson didn't include Nicole winning veto. But he wants Jackson in F3.

13 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

Nicole said what if I win POV, does your deal cover that?

Cliff said no it doesn’t.

i still think if Nicole wins POV Cliff will vote out Holly if Nicole wants.

IMO Cliff wants Jackson in F3. He also wanted Tommy gone last week while Nicole wanted Holly gone and he got want he want. If Nicole even tries to get him to evict Jackson in the event that she wins veto (and I'm not sure she even would), I suspect Cliff will turn her around when the time comes and he'll evict Holly.

5 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

So-- to me it seems like no one will be trying for this veto (which is dumb if that happens) and Nicole will win. 

That would actually be funny and I could see it happening. Well, Jackson won't throw it, but I think Holly will and maybe Cliff.

Have any of them been practicing the days? I haven't really watched in weeks so I don't know. If they have been, are any of them really good at it? Really bad at it?

[hoosiermom]

What was the big “lie” Jackson told about Tommy during the house meeting that caused him to be evicted? Apparently I missed it.

[Nashville]

4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

That would actually be funny and I could see it happening. Well, Jackson won't throw it, but I think Holly will and maybe Cliff.

I’m waiting for that golden day when EVERYBODY decides to throw a particular comp...

and the day of the comp arrives...

and everybody gets in their starting positions...

and the comp music starts blaring...

and the emcee for the comp shouts, “GO!!!”...

and nobody moves.

   🤣🤣🤣

4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Have any of them been practicing the days? I haven't really watched in weeks so I don't know. If they have been, are any of them really good at it? Really bad at it?

• Cliff and Nicole have been practicing Days - well, pretty much daily. 🙂  They’re both pretty good at it.
• Holly has been practicing pretty frequently herself; most of her practice has been BY herself, though - and she’s constantly complaining about how bad she is at it, what mistakes she’s made, how previous head injuries have negatively impacted her ability to retain information, etc. All which makes me wonder if Holly is trying to set up a blindside if she wins, or a cover if she loses.
• Maybe others have seen Jackson practicing days, but I haven’t.  Which doesn’t mean Jackson hasn’t been practicing. 

[alihart41]

2 minutes ago, Sarah Heart said:

Its on Sundays show. He told C/N, that Tommy was working both sides, and wanted Nicole gone, and wasn't going to throw HOH as he said.

It was actually Cliff who Jackson said Tommy wanted gone, but essentially yes. He overheard Tommy's offer -- throw HOH and win Veto to evict Jackson -- and told Cliff and Nicole that that was all a fake campaign pitch because Tommy "really" wanted to work with Jackson to evict Cliff.

What is Holly's game plan here? (I know, I know, nothing.) She sold her soul to the devil by agreeing to throw HOH and Veto. Is she just assuming Jackson will be evicted? It doesn't sound like her deal with Cliff and Nicole includes anything beyond "I'll throw these comps if you keep me tonight."

[Growsonwalls]

Here's the thing about Cliff. We see Jackson browbeating Holly and cringing and thinking it's sort of emotional abuse. But I think in a way Cliff has been just as manipulative with Nicole. He's used his friendly older guy/dad persona to get Nicole to do what HE wants. If he wanted Tommy gone he should have been upfront with her from the get go and say he wants Tommy gone. Instead he blew up Nicole's game so that both Tommy and Holly hate Nicole, and then in the end he pushed his agenda and booted Tommy anyway. Which I suspect he was always going to do. Now he wants to take Jackson to the F2. It's Big Brother and it's gameplay but Cliff wraps up his manipulation in this "oh I'm just a friendly guy looking out for you" way with someone who's pretty fragile and to me it's getting icky. 

[Irishsecra]

Cliff has been studying the days a lot with Nicole. He seems pretty good at it, Nicole too.

i know he told the live feeders that he wants to win veto

as for Nicole always doing what Cliff wants and not visa versus.

Cliff won the DE POV, you know he wanted to send Tommy home by taking Christie off the block. Instead he did want Nicole wanted and sent Christie home. Tommy has been his target forever 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Irishsecra

[peachmangosteen]

4 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Here's the thing about Cliff. We see Jackson browbeating Holly and cringing and thinking it's sort of emotional abuse. But I think in a way Cliff has been just as manipulative with Nicole. He's used his friendly older guy/dad persona to get Nicole to do what HE wants. If he wanted Tommy gone he should have been upfront with her from the get go and say he wants Tommy gone. Instead he blew up Nicole's game so that both Tommy and Holly hate Nicole, and then in the end he pushed his agenda and booted Tommy anyway. Which I suspect he was always going to do. Now he wants to take Jackson to the F2. It's Big Brother and it's gameplay but Cliff wraps up his manipulation in this "oh I'm just a friendly guy looking out for you" way with someone who's pretty fragile and to me it's getting icky. 

Thank you.

3 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

Cliff won the DE POV, you know he wanted to send Tommy home by taking Christie off the block. Instead he did want Nicole wanted and sent Christie home. Tommy has been his target forever 

I don't think that had anything to do with Nicole. Jackson wanted Christie gone as well.

[Lady Calypso]

35 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Right. That's is the loophole. If Cliff wins, he has promised to keep Jackson and vote out Holly. If Jackson wins, he has promised to keep Cliff (which means vote out Holly...). Holly has promised to throw that veto. 

So-- to me it seems like no one will be trying for this veto (which is dumb if that happens) and Nicole will win. Then Cliff won't have to honor the deal and maybe he will come to his senses and vote out Jackson.

So...essentially we're getting BB19 again, where the house determined the winner of the comps.

Just. Fucking. Fantastic. We're the fools this time.

5 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

Cliff won the DE POV, you know he wanted to send Tommy home by taking Christie off the block. Instead he did want Nicole wanted and sent Christie home. Tommy has been his target forever 

Except...Nicole actually was ok with Tommy going.

Don't forget, as soon as Cliff won veto, he went to Nicole and said "we're voting out Christie." Nicole just said yes. 

I think they were doing what Jackson/Holly wanted, but Cliff/Nicole had talked about evicting Tommy before Christie. 

[peachmangosteen]

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think they were doing what Jackson/Holly wanted ...

Exactly. Honestly, looking at it, they've essentially just both been doing what Jackson wants for weeks now. 

Fucking Jackson, he really should win. Dammit!

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

Exactly. Honestly, looking at it, they've essentially just both been doing what Jackson wants for weeks now.

Fucking Jackson, he really should win. Dammit!

Yeah, I think Cliff/Nicole were honouring their F4 deal with Jackson/Holly, but damnit, they should have pushed for a Tommy eviction! Christie vs Jackson would have been their shield! 

Honestly, I keep trying to find a reason for Jackson not to win and...I can't. He does deserve the win. He's been playing a killer strategic game, he's a comp beast, AND his social game is fairly decent as well.

He'd be a great winner, and one of the best villain winners for sure. He'll be remembered as a winner, that's for sure. 

Seriously, his move a couple of nights ago was stellar and should be considered one of the best moves in recent BB history. 

So, that's why I hope Jackson somehow pulls out a veto win this week and evicts Cliff.

Also, mostly because I can't with Cliff at the moment. Again, logically, Cliff's moves make sense and I think if Cliff won the game, he'd be a decent winner as he's really earned it. But...man, this isn't the risky move I wanted to see from Cliff. I wanted him to risk evicting Holly to get to F3, not risk evicting Tommy to take Jackson to F3. 

I know, after the season ends, no matter what the outcome is, I might come around on Cliff's gameplay and give him some credit. But I guess I'M a bitter viewer because I just can't find it in me to like Cliff's move at all. 

[Growsonwalls]

You know watching Jackson reminds me of watching Vanessa or watching Dan. The wheels are constantly spinning, they never ever stop working and scheming. It's exhausting but also fun. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, houseguests are being woken up now, which means something is happening today.

Either another twist or a special guest or something, probably to fill up a segment for Sunday's show or something.

[Nashville]

5 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Fucking Jackson, he really should win. Dammit!

Yeah, I know - depressing yet totally valid thought, ain’t it?

[Dmarie019]

9 hours ago, BK1978 said:

Funny side note on Big Brother Canada season one, one of the jurors claimed she voted the opposite of how she wanted to vote and jumped up and tried to get the show to allow her to change her vote.  The host would not allow it and from that point forward the host always reminds the voters to vote for who they want to win.

I wonder if that's why Julie does it too. 

2 hours ago, Figster said:

Nicole has won 3 comps, 2 of which were thrown to her (and Cliff knows this).  Not exactly impressive. And she's been led around by Cliff; he can easily explain that truth in an F2 against her.  Plus, Cliff at least attempted a big move against the dominant alliance (that fell apart). Nicole hasn't done anything remotely gutsy like that.

I don't know if i would consider Nicole's 1st HOH win 'thrown' to her by Cliff. we don't know if Cliff would have beat her had he kept going. 

I doubt Jackson would throw veto. He's too competitive. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, Dmarie019 said:

I don't know if i would consider Nicole's 1st HOH win 'thrown' to her by Cliff. we don't know if Cliff would have beat her had he kept going. 

I agree. Plus, Tommy was seconds away from winning so if that was Cliff throwing it to her, it almost backfired.

I think Nicole did win that first HOH fair and square. 

Now, for last night's HOH, yeah, she definitely was thrown it. 

[Slider]

I'm team Cliff all the way.  He may have made some mistakes, but Nicole's attitude the last few days really bothered me.  I can't really put my finger on it, but it was just something about her talks the last few days that didn't sit well with me.  I've gone back and forth on Cliff all season, but now he's the one I want to win in the end.  

[alihart41]

9 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I agree. Plus, Tommy was seconds away from winning so if that was Cliff throwing it to her, it almost backfired.

I think Nicole did win that first HOH fair and square. 

Now, for last night's HOH, yeah, she definitely was thrown it. 

Yeah, I don't consider that thrown either. She led that comp from beginning to end, just flubbing her first shot. Cliff slowed down and moved that piece when he realized she was almost done, but it's not like he slowed down to let her catch up and pass him.

[Lamima]

3 hours ago, Figster said:

Why do people think that Cliff is being truthful to Jackson? I mean it's totally nonsensical for Clif to bring Jackson to F2 over Nicole, so he's probably lying (to Jackson) and just covering his bases.  Seems pretty obvious to me.

Cliff won't lie though. He keeps to his word.

[Lamima]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

Here's the thing about Cliff. We see Jackson browbeating Holly and cringing and thinking it's sort of emotional abuse. But I think in a way Cliff has been just as manipulative with Nicole. He's used his friendly older guy/dad persona to get Nicole to do what HE wants. If he wanted Tommy gone he should have been upfront with her from the get go and say he wants Tommy gone. Instead he blew up Nicole's game so that both Tommy and Holly hate Nicole, and then in the end he pushed his agenda and booted Tommy anyway. Which I suspect he was always going to do. Now he wants to take Jackson to the F2. It's Big Brother and it's gameplay but Cliff wraps up his manipulation in this "oh I'm just a friendly guy looking out for you" way with someone who's pretty fragile and to me it's getting icky. 

This... 1000% this!!!!!

[Dmarie019]

and we now have animals on the feeds.

[Otherkate]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

Here's the thing about Cliff. We see Jackson browbeating Holly and cringing and thinking it's sort of emotional abuse. But I think in a way Cliff has been just as manipulative with Nicole. He's used his friendly older guy/dad persona to get Nicole to do what HE wants. If he wanted Tommy gone he should have been upfront with her from the get go and say he wants Tommy gone. Instead he blew up Nicole's game so that both Tommy and Holly hate Nicole, and then in the end he pushed his agenda and booted Tommy anyway. Which I suspect he was always going to do. Now he wants to take Jackson to the F2. It's Big Brother and it's gameplay but Cliff wraps up his manipulation in this "oh I'm just a friendly guy looking out for you" way with someone who's pretty fragile and to me it's getting icky. 

Thank you. Can't stand that guy.

Jackson should really win this game. I thought he was just a jerky watermelon-loving weirdo, but he's turned out to be much smarter than I expected. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Did they not show the house meeting on feeds because they were worried about Jackson's image again?

That's a very good question. It can't be that they were just saving material for Sunday's show. They always use the F4 HoH as filler for at least half of that episode. I have the script right here: Footage of the comp, cut to Nicole explaining why she has to win. Footage of the comp, cut to Cliff explaining why he has to win. Footage of the comp, cut to Holly explaining why she has to win. Footage of the comp, cut to Jackson explaining who he wants to win. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I know they showed Jackson being an asshole to Holly just a couple weeks ago but they might not have realized how badly he came across. In this instance, I assume they knew what he was about to do and wanted to be able to carefully control how much of that the audience got to see.

I think they are bracing themselves for backlash if Jackson ends up winning.

Quote

I think I hate Cliff more than Jackson. There's just something creepily inauthentic about him to me. 

Agreed. There is something a little too precious, a little too performative about him, especially in the DR. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by iMonrey

[Otherkate]

5 minutes ago, Sarah Heart said:

I think Jackson thrives on all this,all the chess pieces in place

Well, you know, he is PLAYING CHESS, NOT CHECKERS.

[Lady Calypso]

21 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I think they are bracing themselves for backlash if Jackson ends up winning.

I don't think there'll be as much backlash to him winning now as there would have been five-six weeks ago. Jackson's not only gotten better as a player, he's gotten better as a person. Of course, you can certainly argue that he's faking it to only be perceived as some Golden Boy, and I do think that production has had him as their pet all season long (always got the Golden Boy edit compared to even Jack, at least as much as he possibly could). 

But, at this point in the game, it wouldn't be as much backlash. There will still be people upset about the win, for sure. But I do think a lot more people are coming around on the idea that Jackson would be a deserving winner....for the most part. Even though his personality is super shitty, he's a wicked smart game player and you don't need to like the player, but respect their game. 

Or, you know, hate the player AND the game! That works too! But honestly, I can't say that I personally am not rooting for a Jackson win. Just like how I'm frustrated with Cliff but thinks he's deserving of a win over Nicole, at this rate (and I LOVE Nicole and would LOVE for her to win, but her game play still sucks).

[HurricaneVal]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

I’m waiting for that golden day when EVERYBODY decides to throw a particular comp...

and the day of the comp arrives...

and everybody gets in their starting positions...

and the comp music starts blaring...

and the emcee for the comp shouts, “GO!!!”...

and nobody moves.

   🤣🤣🤣

We got very, very close to that scenario when Christmas, and her broken foot, was thrown that footrace comp win by Paul (*spit*spit*turn in place three times*spit*spit* to avoid the evil eye) and his minions.

[Callaphera]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Jess would NEVER vote for Nicole, IMO. Jess HATES Nicole. She always has, and that's just further proven in that jury house video of her. Jess would rather vote for someone with a penis over Nicole. And we know Jess isn't a savvy player. 

Jessica, probably: "Girl power! Except for those icky girls so go penises, I guess."

I mean, the penises haven't been able to work out for awhile and when that testosterone builds up, you just can't hold them accountable for anything they do. 

[vb68]

Thinking about it, and I'm also fine if Jackson wins Veto and takes Cliff out. Cliff is overrated as a gameplayer and just in general as a houseguest. All I want is for Nicole to get to the F2 and be able to plead her case. I think she can explain herself just fine and lay it out. Now it may depend on how bitter the jury is if she can win or not. But I want her to have that opportunity. She's gotten all the mileage she can from the alliance with Cliff, so yeah he can leave.

Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression was Tommy's going to poison the well against Jackson/ Holly. He just didn't want to say that directly to Julie. But the glowing way he talked about Nicole and how she approached the game, I think he will build her up.

* I think the perfect moment that captured Cliff this season was him saying he didn't care how long everybody else had to wait. He was going to complete the slip and slide if it took all night.

Edited September 13, 2019 by vb68

[Cutty]

15 minutes ago, vb68 said:

Thinking about it, and I'm also fine if Jackson wins Veto and takes Cliff out. Cliff is overrated as a gameplayer and just in general as a houseguest.

Thank you. The guy is such a fucking cornball and has been pandering to the cameras for months now in the hopes of winning AFP. He would've been a pre-jury boot had they not literally gave him one of the few comps he could actually win in the battle back.