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Deputy Deputy CoS

S03.E01: Night

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13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I did like June's conversation with the wife raising Hannah. I thought it was nice to see a different side to a wife that wasn't a total monster. 

I disagree that she wasn't a total monster. I think she was entitled by privilege and refused to see how arrogant her position was. This shit is happening in the United States, where children are separated from heir parent(s), adopted by an American family, and the real parents are losing the battles in court to get them back. Anyone who is not an entitled ass would simply say "I kept your child safe, now I return them to you". And even though we are not Gilead - yet - the sentiment is still the same, the "I am better/have more resources/more education than you". But the bond is forcibly severed because of some hateful philosophy/policy.

I would agree with you if the whole interaction was purely fiction. Knowing that this is happening to real people makes the whole thing a little too painful for me to have any sympathy for the not mother.

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I just can't with this show anymore. 

I am totally bored with this.  Seems like more of the same over and over. 

They need a new direction for the show, something different.  I've just lost interest

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6 hours ago, AllyB said:

When did June save Emily's life?

I guess, June finding a way for Emily to escape to Canada?  (I forget what happened in last year's finale.  Long time ago.)

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The privileged inhabitants of Gilead are the worst sort of people. 

They benefit from it so they constantly rationalize and excuse away its' true functionality; they have a status that allows them not to suffer as much as the lesser classes. From having access to the best foods when possible or nicest homes to live in, they have house slaves, sex slaves both in house and at Jezebel's, personal guards, and so on.

When things are going their way and they're getting what they want, they go along with the grand scheme. They're selfish and self serving and despite all the death and carnage that has gone on around them, and continues to thrive and flourish, they merely look the other way, it's not their problem, it's not their war to engage in. 

The only reason Serena is even showing signs she's over her existence in Gilead is because of how things have turned to shit for "her".

Forget about all the women trapped in slavery and captivity and death camps, fuck those sinful chicks, she got a spanking, lost a finger, and "her baby", woe is her. Now Gilead has become "her" prison and that just can't be.

The woman who has Hannah is fine knowing that she only has this child because she and her ilk agreed to slaughter or enslave the real parents. She embraced the system, it's the only way that she is still alive, and she continues to every single second she does nothing about the world around her. She is complicit to Gilead's existence and everything that goes along with it. 

9 hours ago, AllyB said:

When did June save Emily's life?

Surely it had to be when she actually halted the original rescue of only Emily leaving that night, until Rita managed to get the others to take June and the baby with them, making it even more likely that they could get caught.

And then when June showed up, she definitely made sure that Emily's treacherous journey to freedom was even easier by saddling her with a small infant that she would solely be responsible for without any help, like if June went with her or something crazy like that. 

Man...Emily sure was lucky June came along when she did...my brain hurts now.

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They're obviously going to keep the Waterfords around, probably the plan to keep them on the show a long time when they cast the actors that they did.

As for the cheesy moment in the hospital, I'm sure there was a lot of buzz when they heard about a woman escaping, asking for asylum, had an infant with her.

Show is allowed a cheesy moment or two amidst all the unrelenting bleakness.

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As ever, the production design and lighting for this one was amazing but this episode itself felt like a different show to me.

I really wish they had gone the limited number of episodes route with this show.

In some ways it is fun to see June trying to fight the regime from the inside but it just doesn't marry up with the Gilead of season one. In some ways I wish they had used this episode to clear the decks. As far as I'm concerned the Waterfords story is finished. There is no more there, there.

And with June, her ability to somehow commit various crimes we know the regime will cheerfully mutilate and kill people for and evade all but minor punishment is just killing my suspension of disbelief. We know there are not that many Handmaids and they are tracked carefully and yet no-one in power has thought "wow this one Handmaid sure seems to be around for lots of major crimes, maybe we should look into that."

The only way it makes sense for June still to be in Gilead would be if Marthas were hiding her or if she was basically under lock and key in the hopes she would conceive another child.

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On 6/8/2019 at 7:07 AM, AllyB said:

When did June save Emily's life?

I thought she meant June's friendship.  In a nightmare world where everybody's mouthing the approved phrases and parroting the through the looking glass thinking that is Gilead logic, and nobody seems to care about anybody else beyond their official approved purpose, June made a point of knowing her real name and talking to her like a person.  They talked about their children and what was really going on.  June was sympathetic about the mutilation that had been done to her and her horror at having to resume "the ceremony" with a new commander.  Before the prospect of getting out is ever raised in the season finale, Emily tells her it was worth getting to come back as a handmaid just to see her again.

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On 6/5/2019 at 3:09 PM, tennisgurl said:

she didnt leave to go to Canada with her baby to be with her husband and her infant because...she wanted to talk to her daughter while she was sleeping? Then give up instantly?

Just got this ep tonight. Honestly, when time is of the crucial essence, why does anyone stand around, weeping and speechifying?  I just thought, "Oh, here we go again with the near-escape and the fountains of tears and the pithy words, then right back to the Commander's house, where no one thinks to turn on a goddam light."  June's kid - can't even remember her name - sleeps like the dead, doesn't she?

I really couldn't understand why Emily was careening around in the woods and finally in the river. Maybe just because it's so long between seasons I forgot, but I was sure she was being taken out of the country by car or van or whatever it was. 

On 6/6/2019 at 8:12 AM, AnswersWanted said:

”Forget what should be possible or probable or logical, we’re just going to write stuff and call it good, okay? Okay, awesome, thanks. Remember how much you liked the magic wolf? Well you haven’t seen anything yet...”. 

Pretty much this.

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On 6/5/2019 at 11:06 AM, AnswersWanted said:

But I am expected to believe that after all the shit that went down during the night of the "escape", the random fire outbreak, Nick holding Fred hostage

 

Hell, I forgot all about that. So it's suddenly, "Let bygones be bygones and no hard feelings" when people have been butchered and tortured for minor infractions? Maybe it's better I forget most of what happened in the last couple of eps last season. 

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It's that time of year again, where we hop back on the trauma conga line. ...yay?

It’s good to know that the show’s formula is still in tact - I should make up a bingo card for every episode.

Did June talk to God and drop an eff bomb in a voiceover? Check.
Insane close-up of June’s pores and/or nose hair? Check and a bonus check for Serena, too.
Did June make a stupid decision but it won’t matter in the long run because plot armour? Well… she’s still rolling off the last bad one in the last season but we’ll give it a check for the Mackenzie house visit.
Is Emily and/or Moira still the best part of the episode? Check.
Did an episode end with June saying something cheeky (with bonus smirk), either in voiceover or in character? Check for the end of episode one.

B-I-N-G-O! And I didn’t even need the free space square.

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First episode thoughts.

Shocked June's not on the wall. Helps that you are the star of the show.

Wife McKenzie is an effing bitch.  She stole June's child and tries to justify it. It's stealing plain and simple.  And the backpeddling of how she's a great mother pissed me off.  Hannah (i refuse to call her Agnes) said that she's beaten or hit. Now I am suppose to believe that the wife is a great person and just misguided casualty of Gilead? Nope. Not happening show.

Emily's scenes - powerful.

I really love Yvonne as an actress and think she would have made a better June than Elizabeth Moss.  

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On 6/8/2019 at 1:07 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I guess, June finding a way for Emily to escape to Canada?  (I forget what happened in last year's finale.  Long time ago.)

Commander Bradley Whitford and the Marthas did that. June had nothing to do with it. June didn't even know Emily was involved until they were all in the car together, IIRC.

I didn't really watch Game of Thrones (not for any hipster "I'm too cool for this" reason, it just didn't take. I've seen maybe three episodes) but I like that they were willing to kill off main characters for the sake of advancing the story. It would be so much more interesting and make way more narrative sense if June ended up on the wall and the show dealt with the ramifications of that, or if they cut off Fred's hand or something.

Loved Nick calling June selfish for staying and pointing out that people risked their lives to help her. She deserved it.

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13 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Commander Bradley Whitford and the Marthas did that. June had nothing to do with it. June didn't even know Emily was involved until they were all in the car together, IIRC.

I was trying to be helpful and offer up an explanation for another poster's question for why Emily said that June saved her life.  Do you know why?  How did June save Emily's life, according to Emily?

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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11 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I really couldn't understand why Emily was careening around in the woods and finally in the river. Maybe just because it's so long between seasons I forgot, but I was sure she was being taken out of the country by car or van or whatever it was. 

Same!!!!

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Well, it's not like you can just drive through a border crossing with a handmaid and a baby in the back of the van.  They got her as far as they could, but it would make sense that she'd have to go on foot through a non-patroled border area at some point.  I have no idea how they expected her to cross a strong current river by herself, holding a baby, though. 

On the other hand, if I'm a border patrol officer in Canada and I see a woman in a long red cape on the shore, the first thing out of my mouth would be "Canada.  You're in Canada."  Then I'd go into the asylum script.  Yeah, I know, dramatic license. 

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4 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Well, it's not like you can just drive through a border crossing with a handmaid and a baby in the back of the van. 

 Yes, but it seems this escape was well-planned and would part of the plan could be for any of the women, even without an infant, to cross a wide, swift-flowing and freezing (because it's perpetual winter or late autumn there)river on foot with no support? There was a more efficient underground railroad back in 1850. Since I can't remember last season's finale very well, I don't know. Did something happen to abort the original plan? I don't know what route was taken, but there are many places to cross the border that don't involve rushing rivers. 

In reality, Emily would have been dragged down by her heavy cape and drowned but I can overlook that more easily than I can the Commander still trusting Nick this way, enough to have him in his house and give him the opportunity to have a private conversation with June. 

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I don't think she was supposed to cross the river.  The way was probably supposed to be clear (from reports) but when Guardians showed up and started shooting she chose the river over being caught or shot.  I think the cloak did weigh her down, she popped up at the end though.

As far as being willing to kill off characters?  That wasn't HBO, that was the writer of the books, which they followed.  This show is also following the book Margaret Atwood wrote, though they are going beyond that now.  June

Spoiler

doesn't die in the book at all,  she writes her own tale, which is found at a remote cabin much later.  She may or may not die after that, we don't know, but it's suspected she escaped, possibly to Europe.

The directors do need to switch it up as far as directing June's scenes, they love their extreme close ups on all the actresses, I think because of the no make up thing, and it being raw.  I do agree it's overdone though.

Nick knows enough about Fred to put him on the wall, hell, Jezebel's and fucking his handmaid for fun are enough, and he also knows that's why the previous Offred killed herself.  So it's a stand off there.  He can't do much to Nick (except get him shipped off to war possibly) because Nick could end him.

As far as killing someone?  I'm completely over Fred, although he may be of use with this new resistance that is emerging, unwillingly of course.  In the books

Spoiler

he is disgraced and executed, and I hope that happens soon.

Edited by Umbelina
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6 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I didn't really watch Game of Thrones (not for any hipster "I'm too cool for this" reason, it just didn't take. I've seen maybe three episodes) but I like that they were willing to kill off main characters for the sake of advancing the story. It would be so much more interesting and make way more narrative sense if June ended up on the wall and the show dealt with the ramifications of that, or if they cut off Fred's hand or something.

I can believe they would keep June around given that she has delivered a healthy baby and might be able to do it again but I couldn't help feeling like the Waterfords story was done and finished. No matter what either of them do, it won't erase the society they helped create and they keep blatantly breaking Gilead's rules so I'm going to get annoyed if they, like June, manage to keep doing so without anyone asking any questions. The whole terrifying dystopian future conceit only works if the people running it are competent enough to seem threatening.

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5 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

 Yes, but it seems this escape was well-planned and would part of the plan could be for any of the women, even without an infant, to cross a wide, swift-flowing and freezing (because it's perpetual winter or late autumn there)river on foot with no support? There was a more efficient underground railroad back in 1850. Since I can't remember last season's finale very well, I don't know. Did something happen to abort the original plan? I don't know what route was taken, but there are many places to cross the border that don't involve rushing rivers. 

In reality, Emily would have been dragged down by her heavy cape and drowned but I can overlook that more easily than I can the Commander still trusting Nick this way, enough to have him in his house and give him the opportunity to have a private conversation with June. 

I would have thought there would have been a small boat waiting for Emily but instead they have her near drown with the baby.

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4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

The directors do need to switch it up as far as directing June's scenes, they love their extreme close ups on all the actresses, I think because of the no make up thing, and it being raw.

The extreme, lengthy close-ups, the interminable slo-mo, (but hey - that's a good time-filler) the complete absence of any momentary lightness of any kind, either literal or situational - TPTB here seem to be just as fucking pretentious as those working on The Walking Dead. "This is art. We are artistes. There is no room in our art for any element other than deadly seriousness, oceans of tears, darkness, gloom,  and misery. Unrelenting grimness - that is art! At least that's what we think art is. Amirite?"  I guess no one ever thought that the lighter, human moments intensify the horror. Oh, well.

And yeah, the raging inferno doesn't even blister Serena's face?

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2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I would have thought there would have been a small boat waiting for Emily but instead they have her near drown with the baby.

There may have been, but since the guards were shooting, they could have killed the boat driver, or taken the boat.  OR the bridge was supposed to be clear.

I doubt the plan was either swimming or the ambush.

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16 hours ago, greekmom said:

First episode thoughts.

Shocked June's not on the wall. Helps that you are the star of the show.

Wife McKenzie is an effing bitch.  She stole June's child and tries to justify it. It's stealing plain and simple.  And the backpeddling of how she's a great mother pissed me off.  Hannah (i refuse to call her Agnes) said that she's beaten or hit. Now I am suppose to believe that the wife is a great person and just misguided casualty of Gilead? Nope. Not happening show.

Emily's scenes - powerful.

I really love Yvonne as an actress and think she would have made a better June than Elizabeth Moss.  

Yep, completely agree with this. For one June was supposed to be beautiful which Elizabeth Moss is far from, and although I do believe looks are only skin deep, you have to have something to be alluring and Elizabeth Moss doesn’t have it. Not in looks or personality. I also find Yvonne Strahovski and Alexis Bledel are much better actresses. Elizabeth Moss is really miscast in this, imo. I find Emily and Serena’s stories more interesting than June’s at this point. 

Edited by ferjy
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22 hours ago, Callaphera said:

It's that time of year again, where we hop back on the trauma conga line. ...yay?

It’s good to know that the show’s formula is still in tact - I should make up a bingo card for every episode.

Did June talk to God and drop an eff bomb in a voiceover? Check.
Insane close-up of June’s pores and/or nose hair? Check and a bonus check for Serena, too.
Did June make a stupid decision but it won’t matter in the long run because plot armour? Well… she’s still rolling off the last bad one in the last season but we’ll give it a check for the Mackenzie house visit.
Is Emily and/or Moira still the best part of the episode? Check.
Did an episode end with June saying something cheeky (with bonus smirk), either in voiceover or in character? Check for the end of episode one.

B-I-N-G-O! And I didn’t even need the free space square.

I’m tired of the closeups too and I find myself fast forwarding through the slo-mo’s.

And agree with others it’s the same thing over and over. Including June’s constant F-that comments, they’ve lost their impact.

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In addition to the complaints about the sheer travel logistics of the escape as planned for Emily/June, I can't believe they don't have some sort of simple change-of-clothes element to the process. There's no old guardian or commander or Econohusband garb they can give out to the escaping handmaids? Even an Econowife or Martha dress would at least be less conspicuous, if not more practical.

Edited by lavenderblue
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4 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

In addition to the complaints about the sheer travel logistics of the escape as planned for Emily/June, I can't believe they don't have some sort of simple change-of-clothes element to the process. There's no old guardian or commander or Econohusband garb they can give out to the escaping handmaids? Even an Econowife or Martha dress would at least be less conspicuous, if not more practical.

The clothes don't bother me so much. I guess it might have been on purpose, to show how vulnerable Emily was in the woods, with drones after her (assuming the writers have some sense of symbolism). And that bothered me. Is Gilead so advanced that they have drones dispatched this fast? I thought they were deprived of most technologies, but maybe I am just confusing things now. And again, that would be a true analogy with the real world, where countries don't ever find money for the masses but are always funding wars and surveillance. 

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7 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

In addition to the complaints about the sheer travel logistics of the escape as planned for Emily/June, I can't believe they don't have some sort of simple change-of-clothes element to the process.

Exactly what I was thinking! Why no simple jeans/sweatshirt or whatever, for the woman escaping? Why did no one think of that? Surely more practical for fleeing through forest and field than a long, flowing heavy cape in brilliant red, which could probably be easily spotted from the moon. 

On 6/10/2019 at 8:42 AM, greekmom said:

I really love Yvonne as an actress and think she would have made a better June than Elizabeth Moss. 

I only ever saw Yvonne on "Dexter" where I despised her character and thought her a terribly poor actress. Since watching this show, that opinion has totally changed. I agree she's very talented and also that she truly would have been a better June. 

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I truly am left astounded by how far the show has fallen from season 1 to now. 

THIS!

Plus, I'm reminded of Simon & Garfunkel's "Hello darkness my old friend." Some of the scenes were so dark, I could barely make out the characters!

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On 6/5/2019 at 6:26 AM, Armchair Critic said:

The first 15 minutes were so tense. I just finished Chernobyl and have been catching up on GOT, now watching this I feel like I am a glutton for punishment watching these depressing shows. But things seem to be looking up with Emily in Canada and June with Bradley Whitford's character. I hope...

With June in another house does that mean we won't see more of Nick, Serena, and Commander Waterford?

I’m right there with you. Chernobyl was bleak but excellent. All the actors were good and Jared Harris is always superb. 

I hope we see a lot more Emily. Her storyline is interesting. 

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7 hours ago, Mystery Author said:

Plus, I'm reminded of Simon & Garfunkel's "Hello darkness my old friend." Some of the scenes were so dark, I could barely make out the characters!

No kidding. I don't get this trend of making scenes so dark we can hardly figure out who is in them, never mind what's happening.

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On 6/5/2019 at 11:09 PM, Miles said:

Why was Emily stumbling through the woods alone with a baby? They had no actual plan for her to get into Canada? What kind of shitty underground railroad is this?

Also if you are going to try and escape at night with drones overhead why not take off your bright white head bonnet thing. Especially if you have dark hair under it. 

I did wonder why there was a bridge over that border river though. You would think Gilead would have demolished all of those.

On 6/6/2019 at 3:17 PM, chaifan said:

June's punishment was for being at the MacKenzie's house to see Hannah.  The Aunt said something like "The MacKenzie's forgave you, but God hasn't" or something along those lines.  I'm not sure how they explained her presence there to avoid much more serious punishment (colonies/death).  In my mind the excuse was that June was so distraught over the kidnapping of Nicole that she ran to the MacKenzie's to make sure Hannah was safe.  There's lots of handwaiving to be done.

In this case i bought that Serena, June and Fred would get off scot free. Gilead seems like a place totally full of hypocrites where laws don't apply consistently. They couldn't really have June punished without admitting their own failings. Plus you know Fred has dirt on other commanders that he can use to keep himself safe when needed.

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On 6/5/2019 at 11:09 PM, Miles said:

Why was Emily stumbling through the woods alone with a baby? They had no actual plan for her to get into Canada? What kind of shitty underground railroad is this?

that was exactly my thought.  What happened to the truck?  the driver just dumped a woman and a baby off in the woods somewhere?  I guess we were spared June agnsting about how to stumble around in the dark for hours but seriously, wouldn't the organizers be more concerned that their rescuee would be recaptured and blow the whole organization's cover?

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On 6/11/2019 at 6:55 PM, AngelaHunter said:

No kidding. I don't get this trend of making scenes so dark we can hardly figure out who is in them, never mind what's happening.

I think it’s a conspiracy to get us all to switch to 4K (which apparently is that much better). 

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10 hours ago, ferjy said:

I think it’s a conspiracy to get us all to switch to 4K (which apparently is that much better). 

I just got a 4K tv a few months ago. Still can't see a damned thing in the pitch-black darkness.

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7 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I just got a 4K tv a few months ago. Still can't see a damned thing in the pitch-black darkness.

I find that it helps if I turn the light off and watch in the dark. Somehow that makes it easier to see what's happening on screen.

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9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I just got a 4K tv a few months ago. Still can't see a damned thing in the pitch-black darkness.

I think it depends on your system. Another member on the GoT forum was the only one who could see the episode while we were all grumbling about not being able to see a thing. But I remember she said she had a pretty spiffy setup. But honestly, I hate this trend of filming thinks in the dark. It happens with so many shows. If you watch it on a tablet through streaming apps, you need night vision goggles!

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On 6/13/2019 at 6:03 PM, echo.Echo.ECHO said:

I find that it helps if I turn the light off and watch in the dark. Somehow that makes it easier to see what's happening on screen.

It does but we shouldn’t have to stumble around in the dark just to make out what’s on the screen.

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On 6/13/2019 at 7:36 PM, ferjy said:

, I hate this trend of filming thinks in the dark

It does seem to be a fairly recent trend but I can't imagine why. Is it cheaper to film in total darkness? Or is it some misguided artistic decision?  It's the same on The Walking Dead. I can see literally nothing, even if I turn off my room lights. I hear panting, gunshots, crashes, and cries as I sit there thinking, "Gee, I wonder what's happening and who that is?"

Obviously, the actors are not stumbling around in utter blackness, so presenting us with a black screen has to be a choice made by TPTB. Weird.

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Ok, I forced myself to watch the first episode and was, frankly, bored out of my skull. So SLOW. No spoilers (obviously) but does it get better? Is there an episode I ought to skip to where something freakin' happens?

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15 minutes ago, dleighg said:

Ok, I forced myself to watch the first episode and was, frankly, bored out of my skull. So SLOW. No spoilers (obviously) but does it get better? Is there an episode I ought to skip to where something freakin' happens?

Honestly, no. nothing has really changed.  June's no closer to getting Hannah and the Waterfords are trying to get Nichole out of Canada.  that's pretty much it.

If you want some shock visuals, watch the DC episode (#6)

Edited by Hanahope
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I skipped Season 2 because of Moss and all of the reasons other posters have cited. Thought I'd try Season 3.

Nope. The endless close-ups of Moss, her smirks and glares, the completely unrealistic way she gets away with pretty much anything, waltzing around and shooting her mouth off.

This show is just stupid and infuriating.

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On 6/5/2019 at 12:12 AM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

The best thing about the premier was Emily. I burst into tears when they were offering her asylum. 

This is a quote from the first post in this thread.  I just got up from my comfy chair (where I've been binge-watching) to come and post the very same thing.  I'm talking UGLY crying -- big gasping sobs.  Okay maybe I do get the blues around the holidays and maybe that is a contributor too but, damn.  This show . . . 

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I'm confused. How did June wind up at the Waterford's after the "escape," even temporarily?

I agree it's pretty unrealistic that the Waterford's appear to be unscathed.

Edited by renatae

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On 6/5/2019 at 5:09 PM, Umbelina said:

  I still wish they would make up their damn minds about Aunt Lydia, she blows with the wind (or storyline of the moment.)  I am sad they haven't added more logic to June's scenes, but Elizabeth Moss is doing the best with the crap they have given her.

I feel this way about all the characters, just about. I think they are trying to show the grays in everyone's makeup, i.e. people are not all good nor a bad, but the way they go about it seems inexplicable. One minute June and Serena are having a sisters in peril moment, and the next minute Serena reverts to being cruel for no obvious reason, except perhaps self preservation. Most of these characters flip flop in a dizzying manner. But this Commander Lawrence is the most quixotic of all to me. I'm beginning to wonder if it's his wife behind anything he does that benefits June or the Marthas.

 

Edited by renatae

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I think nick was completely correct in calling June selfish.  Many people put their lives in the line to get her and the baby out, it was basically a big fuck you to all of them.  I understand her wanting to save Hannah (plus there wouldn’t be much more of a story if she escaped), but right now Holly needs her more.  She’s just an infant, how long did this whole escape even take?  Emily couldn’t feed her, and making that escape by herself would have been harrowing enough even without a baby.  I think the van took Emily as far as they could, then she had to make the rest of the journey on foot.  Also I think June told Emily to call the baby Nichole so that when word gets back to Gilead they will know the baby got out. 

I’m so happy we get to see Commander Bradley Whitford again but where is this all going?  Two seasons now have ended with failed escape attempts, one deliberately so.

I feel no sympathy for Serena or her missing sliver of a pinkie.  She didn’t give a shit when she was helping her husband rape his handmaids or a litany of other sins.  Now it’s affecting her and she’s outraged.  I know that’s a very human reaction, but I still don’t care.  She did one thing right by letting Nichole/Holly go.  June is way too kind to her.  She’s a better person than I in that regard, but she still should have left.

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