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S17.E12: The Art of Fashion

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1 hour ago, Kaiju Ballet said:
On 6/1/2019 at 11:46 PM, QuantumMechanic said:

Given who the Final Five (we should have heard some "All Along the Watchtower") were I'm OK with the final four.

+ kajillion  I frakking loved this. Thanks!

So say we all. (I'm on a Caprica re-watch.)

In Beverly Johnson's day it was a major struggle to make to make it onto the cover of Vogue. Now you can hardly find a "super model" on the cover of a fashion magazine. These days it's the Cardis and the Kardashes, lol.

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7 hours ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

Perhaps due to time constraints he wasn't able to sew that part of the dress with interfacing/lining/ whatever he needed to make that part stand up. I sew a lot of costume type things and sometimes there are challenges during construction that need to be addressed in order to make the outfit work as visioned. I've used quilt batting or fiberfill or even parts of older garments as linings to make things stand up or stand out. While they are at Mode they look like they are running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to get the perfect fabric and trim but interfacing isn't something they may have that much experience with. 

You are no doubt correct, but my comment was less a dig at Bishme and more in response to the person who inferred Sebastian’s dress was not wearable. None of these pieces were “wearable” in practical terms. I’m sure Bishme could have worked it out given more time, or maybe not considering he’s self-taught.....

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6 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

You are no doubt correct, but my comment was less a dig at Bishme and more in response to the person who inferred Sebastian’s dress was not wearable. None of these pieces were “wearable” in practical terms. I’m sure Bishme could have worked it out given more time, or maybe not considering he’s self-taught.....

Yeah, I don't think the point of this challenge was to make a garment that one could throw on to go to the mall. 

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On 5/31/2019 at 11:05 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Do you think that Hester dresses that way for the cameras or that she really does go out of the house like that for funerals, weddings, job interviews, doctor appointments, etc. ?  I'm pretty open minded, but, to me, she's a walking billboard that says:  "DON'T TAKE ME SERIOUSLY."   

The moment I laid eyes on her, before she spoke a single word even, all that came to mind was she needed the costume to make people think she was edgy, has a point of view because she wasn't going to be able to convey anything with her personality or her talent.  I still believe that's true.  I took note in this episode that her champions were Elaine and Nina, both coming from a jaded magazine perspective.  When the lens shifts to actual humans purchasing her clothing to put on their bodies it's nothing but crickets.

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15 hours ago, izabella said:

She might need glasses both for distance and for reading/sewing, but doesn't wear bifocals.

Lots of people these days wear glasses as a fashion statement. I've seen people wearing glasses without lenses. Yes I have. And I have a co-worker who insists she doesn't need bifocals/progressives but she has to take her glasses off to use the computer screen, then put them back on to see across the room. It must be exhausting. 

Edited by ItsHelloPattiagain

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28 minutes ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

Lots of people these days wear glasses as a fashion statement. I've seen people wearing glasses without lenses. Yes I have. And I have a co-worker who insists she doesn't need bifocals/progressives but she has to take her glasses off to use the computer screen, then put them back on to see across the room. It must be exhausting. 

I think Hester is older than she claims and likely needs different glasses for close work.

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18 hours ago, izabella said:

To me, Hester is another Mondo.  Juvenile clothes, with a precious designer who wears costumes every day.  Yet, she has a viewpoint, and is one of a few who loves color and pattern and texture.  I would like to see her runway, though I'm not her target market which I can't imagine is anyone above 14.

I guess the Hester/Mondo comparison was supposed to make me rethink why I thought Hester deserved the finals... but it had the opposite effect, because I loved Mondo! He had the most incredible knack for putting prints together that you would never think belonged together, but absolutely did.  

Hester and I do not share the same tastes, and I would never buy her clothes, but I admire her creativity and sense of whimsy. Same as Mondo.

18 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

And like many on this forum, while I’ve rooted for Christian before, now j’adore Christian as a mentor. He's given great suggestions that we've seen contestants disregard. And I love the fact that he's so personally invested in each one's success, to the point that his goodbyes are extremely gracious and still encouraging.

Similarly, Brandon has surpassed Michael Kors for me as a judge. I do prefer Karli to Heidi--she seems to wear her heart on her sleeve more. And I agree with most everyone here about Elaine and Nina. Elaine belongs on a different show, and Nina needs to revert back to early seasons Nina again.

I agree with your thoughts on Christian and Karli— which surprises me, because I was very fond of both Tim and Heidi. I had actually planned to forego this show in favor of T&H’s upcoming Amazon show, but decided to give this a shot first. Now, I’m not sure I care about the Amazon show!

I’m meh on Nina (always have been) and Elaine. I’m coming around on Brandon, but for me, he does not yet approach Michael Kors levels of snark-tastickness. I also miss Zach Posen and his beautifully placed eye rolls.

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16 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

but interfacing isn't something they may have that much experience with. 

Image of sweet Jesus on a garlic tortilla.  What nonsense.  Anyone who has bought a used garment to take it apart to see how it's made has seen interfacing.  And the older and more worn out the better.

These people are supposed to have one thing to do this month: make clothes and have a  mastery of control of the hows and whys.

16 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I’m sure Bishme could have worked it out given more time, or maybe not considering he’s self-taught.....

Self taught is not a synonym for ignorant of a basic skill set.  Surely he could spring a couple of dollars for a Vogue sewing book, which he should know by heart before he puts himself on a national stage as a potential winner of a design contest. 

Buy a Vogue suit pattern, cut it out, and follow the directions.  Give your Mother the suit she couldn't afford to buy.  

They are supposed to be doing one thing.  and doing it well.

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20 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Image of sweet Jesus on a garlic tortilla.  What nonsense.  Anyone who has bought a used garment to take it apart to see how it's made has seen interfacing.  And the older and more worn out the better.

These people are supposed to have one thing to do this month: make clothes and have a  mastery of control of the hows and whys.

Self taught is not a synonym for ignorant of a basic skill set.  Surely he could spring a couple of dollars for a Vogue sewing book, which he should know by heart before he puts himself on a national stage as a potential winner of a design contest. 

Buy a Vogue suit pattern, cut it out, and follow the directions.  Give your Mother the suit she couldn't afford to buy.  

They are supposed to be doing one thing.  and doing it well.

Especially in this day and age where you can watch countless tutorials for free on YouTube. My mom was self taught (before the internet existed) and she made all kinds of fabulous costumes for my sisters and me! She also knew how to use interfacing.

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12 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Self taught is not a synonym for ignorant of a basic skill set. 

Well, I'm not sure I would describe the back that he sewed into his model's hair as "basic". It seemed structurally complicated because he was trying to get a giant fan of lame' to stand up, but what do I know - I can barely sew a button on. I do think he is gifted, and he can clearly tailor clothes. This look went beyond that though to me.

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1 hour ago, 30 Helens said:

I guess the Hester/Mondo comparison was supposed to make me rethink why I thought Hester deserved the finals... but it had the opposite effect, because I loved Mondo! He had the most incredible knack for putting prints together that you would never think belonged together, but absolutely did.  

Hester and I do not share the same tastes, and I would never buy her clothes, but I admire her creativity and sense of whimsy. Same as Mondo.

I agree with your thoughts on Christian and Karli— which surprises me, because I was very fond of both Tim and Heidi. I had actually planned to forego this show in favor of T&H’s upcoming Amazon show, but decided to give this a shot first. Now, I’m not sure I care about the Amazon show!

I’m meh on Nina (always have been) and Elaine. I’m coming around on Brandon, but for me, he does not yet approach Michael Kors levels of snark-tastickness. I also miss Zach Posen and his beautifully placed eye rolls.

It’s like you’re in my mind with all of this! 🙀😀

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On 6/2/2019 at 9:33 PM, heavysnaxx said:

"My girl is on her way to a sedentary nonprofit job where a polished look means, 'How's the job hunt going?' She's also a little gassy and her feet swell up on hot days."

"My girl likes her baked goods and enjoys patisserie openings, pie-eating contests, and feats of strength. She needs a look that can transition from freezer-to-oven-to-dishwasher. For a color story, it's all about golden-brown-and-delicious with a little green to garnish."

And for the following, all I can say is: I KNOW, RIGHT?!

On 6/3/2019 at 9:34 PM, DaphneCat said:

It always KILLS me when the judges go on and on about how "wearable" jumpsuits are.  Do these people never go to the bathroom?  Once you basically get undressed every time you have to pee what do you do with the top section to make sure it isn't dragging on the floor of the bathroom?  (This would be especially problematic if it had sleeves - 3 dangling pieces of fabric to keep track of.)  Do they hold everything  in one had while grabbing toilet paper with the other?  I guess you also have to make it a point to go before it's really dire because otherwise you'll never get out of it in time. 

Edited by heavysnaxx
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On 6/3/2019 at 10:48 PM, izabella said:

She might need glasses both for distance and for reading/sewing, but doesn't wear bifocals.

If all her zillion pairs of glasses have prescription lenses in them, she's made a seeerious investment!

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9 hours ago, heavysnaxx said:

It always KILLS me when the judges go on and on about how "wearable" jumpsuits are.  Do these people never go to the bathroom? 

As much as I like (ogle) the look of women in jumpsuits and catsuits, I always wonder, hmm, maybe that's why the lines at the Women's are soo long; it's all that jumpsuit wrangling in the stalls!

Edited by Eulipian 5k
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1 hour ago, little black cloud said:

If all her zillion pairs of glasses have prescription lenses in them, she's made a seeerious investment!

Not necessarily.  If the prescription is on the lower side, you can buy glasses online (Zenni, etc.) for pretty cheap, like $25.

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16 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Self taught is not a synonym for ignorant of a basic skill set. 

It just means he did not go to Fashion school and/or get a BFA or MFA in fashion.  Bishme might have taken sewing classes locally as I did as a young teenager, or learned from his mother/grandmother, as I also did.

Not to diminish his talents, just that it has an industry meaning.

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On 6/3/2019 at 4:16 PM, AwesomO4000 said:

If I was going to do so, I would have after season 8 and Gretchen... Her final collection - ugh. With the "coochie"*** shorts, and I think unfinished hems on them. They looked in front almost how Hester's bathing suit looked in the back. And 4 out of 10 of her looks had those shorts.

*** That's what I call shorts that "ride up" on the thighs rather than go straight across on the leg.

Gretchen was about my breaking point, too.  Coochie shorts interspersed with shorts and pants that sagged so much in the back that they looked like those canvas bags they put on horses that pull carriages through city parks.   

Miz Gretchen is apparently out of the fashion design business and now advertises herself as a business advisor and strategic consultant.  Of what and to whom remain to be discovered.   https://www.gretchenjones.co/

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On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 1:17 PM, tinderbox said:

Ive always liked Christian BUT I’ve grown to love him. Never thought anybody would be a better mentor than Tim Gunn but, clearly, I was wrong.  Christian saved the day for many of these designers over the course of the competition.  He’s quietly suggested different fabrics, color choices, additions or deletions to garments, (almost without them realizing it) and overall caring and concern for all of them.  I realize editing comes into play but it felt to me that Christian knew how much to guide and when to walk away.

Took the words right out of my mouth. My boss and I discuss PR every week and I've been so pleasantly surprised at what a thoughtful mentor Christian is. Not to mention he's just adorable and I LOVE his work. He makes some seriously gorgeous clothing. I didn't think I'd enjoy PR without the heart and soul of Tim but major kudos to Christian.

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1 hour ago, terrymct said:

Miz Gretchen is apparently out of the fashion design business and now advertises herself as a business advisor and strategic consultant.  Of what and to whom remain to be discovered.   https://www.gretchenjones.co/

Took a quick look at her new site...pretentious BS and psychobabble.

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43 minutes ago, Beden said:

Took a quick look at her new site...pretentious BS and psychobabble.

Not a surprise really.  She doesn't have degrees or experience that might support the kind of career service she's advertising.

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So pleased Tessa was eliminated. Wabi sabi, okay. I think there's got to be a better way to do that. In one episode, she did acknowledge that there's a way to do unfinished hems so that they don't fray. And perhaps there are some fabrics where unfinished works better than others. Like not chiffon. Her excuses were tedious. As were her designs, in my opinion! 

Hester....I've seen a couple of posters criticize her sewing, which hasn't bothered me. I think she's made some really cute jackets. I think she lost it a bit on this challenge-I liked her skirt a lot, the top was terrible. I wish she'd put a cute jacket or cape on top of it.  I like her use of color, I like how over the top she is. I'm not going to wear it, but I think there are plenty of kids and club kids who would be into it. True, they are not going to buy that at Bergdorf. 

I love Sebastian. The language thing is huge and something we really take for granted. Watching him break into such rapid Spanish with the designer made it click for me. He's doing this challenge in a second language, it's like dancing in high heels, backward. I love his clothes and would love for him to win.

I thought Bisme would get more attention this challenge-I really liked his dress and the environment. The judges were not so wowed, though? That said, I kind of feel like he might win the whole thing. I like his vision, and he seems to make everyone he designs for look good.

I thought Garo deserved the win! I loved the moving peplum. So cool. He is a nice blend of staying true to what he does, but still listening to the judges and growing a bit within the competition. Which is what Tessa couldn't do, to bring this post full circle!

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On 5/31/2019 at 11:39 AM, Jodithgrace said:

But he did speak in Spanish. i just don't think he had any idea what ancient Greece looked like. Bright yellow would never look right, no matter how many columns and mirrors were there.

There is a reason why the Greek flag is blue and white. 🙂

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On 6/4/2019 at 11:07 AM, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

Yes I have. And I have a co-worker who insists she doesn't need bifocals/progressives but she has to take her glasses off to use the computer screen, then put them back on to see across the room. It must be exhausting. 

That's me - I have great near vision so I don't need or like glasses for computer work, reading, eating, having close conversations, etc, and only need glasses in class, watching TV, driving, etc. My progressive lenses have clear or almost clear glass at the bottom so I don't have to take them off to see my GPS, or read ingredients, or take notes. It's been this way all my life. I really enjoy being able to take my glasses off and just be in my bubble of perfect vision. 🙂

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The only environment that I can think of could have set Sebastian's dress off better would be something like a black midnight sky and he could have used little rhinestones as stars? He wanted some kind of diamond element and seemed to drop it. Maybe that would have worked better than mirrors, and would have made the color not seem so dishwater. His dress was so cool, I wish he'd had a better setting!

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On 6/4/2019 at 12:34 AM, DaphneCat said:

It always KILLS me when the judges go on and on about how "wearable" jumpsuits are.  Do these people never go to the bathroom?  Once you basically get undressed every time you have to pee what do you do with the top section to make sure it isn't dragging on the floor of the bathroom?  (This would be especially problematic if it had sleeves - 3 dangling pieces of fabric to keep track of.)  Do they hold everything  in one had while grabbing toilet paper with the other?  I guess you also have to make it a point to go before it's really dire because otherwise you'll never get out of it in time.

If you have a long torso, a jumpsuit tends to give you a continuous wedgie, too.

Regarding the comments about "your girl", I was part of a focus group for a new-ish clothing company from whom I've bought several items.  The group was fairly diverse from young fashion bloggers to me, an middle aged broad who has a physically active life.  At one point, the company folks mentioned that they were thinking of getting into lingerie including panties.  Comments around the table mostly centered on making the pieces look beautiful and sexy.  When it came time for me, I said that I needed underwear that look nice but more importantly that came be washed multiple times without the elastic falling off or losing it spring.  The panties also can't walk up my backside during the course of the work day.  OMG, you should have seen the looks the young women gave me.  Let's talk again in a couple of decades, ladies.  lol

Edited by terrymct
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3 hours ago, terrymct said:

If you have a long torso, a jumpsuit tends to give you a continuous wedgie, too.

The panties also can't walk up my backside during the course of the work day.  OMG, you should have seen the looks the young women gave me.  Let's talk again in a couple of decades, ladies.  lol

Let's talk about G-Strings (thongs), shall we?  Once worn, never forgotten.  Or worn again.

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On 6/3/2019 at 9:34 PM, Ashforth said:

Ha! So I guess we're all in our 50's? Who knew that we are the demographic of the PR audience? Or maybe we're just the demographic of Primetimer... 

As a woman in her 50s who's been following and posting to Primetimer around the net since it was pre-Bravo TWoP, I'm pretty sure it's the latter.

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4 hours ago, terrymct said:

If you have a long torso, a jumpsuit tends to give you a continuous wedgie, too.

Heh, the fashion god is an equal opportunity wedger. The length of men's zippers are so short these days there is no room to "reach in" to retrieve anything. That's why I assume "all the young dudes" wear them so low off the waist; just to give the boys some room to breathe, lol.

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I had a jumpsuit once, that looked really good on me. However...it buttoned up the front and had buttoned cuffs and a tie belt. To go to the bathroom, I had to untie the belt, unbutton the sleeve cuffs, unbutton all of the buttons down the front, and then do it all back up again. I once made the mistake of wearing it on a plane. Never again! LOL 

But as inconvenient as that was, at least it was doable. A jumpsuit that zips in the back, is a feat of impossibility. 

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3 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

But as inconvenient as that was, at least it was doable. A jumpsuit that zips in the back, is a feat of impossibility. 

No! Someone actually designed such a garment?  Did this person hate women or just women stupid enough to buy that?

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4 hours ago, RealityCreator said:
On 6/4/2019 at 12:34 AM, Ashforth said:

Ha! So I guess we're all in our 50's? Who knew that we are the demographic of the PR audience? Or maybe we're just the demographic of Primetimer... 

As a woman in her 50s who's been following and posting to Primetimer around the net since it was pre-Bravo TWoP, I'm pretty sure it's the latter.

Going back to those days, I haven't gotten younger.  I have, however, due to investments, gotten richer.  I have more money to spend now than I ever did in my 20s and 30s.  And to our Colombian judge, who also hasn't gotten younger, someone might point out that dresses can be too young, too fluffy and too cheap-looking.  

Likewise the colors of fabrics, the patterns, and the comfort of wearing them....these things do matter. 

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On 6/3/2019 at 9:34 PM, Ashforth said:

Ha! So I guess we're all in our 50's? Who knew that we are the demographic of the PR audience? Or maybe we're just the demographic of Primetimer... 

Add a decade - that's my demographic.  

Our go-to "dressed up to get messed up" ensemble in the early seventies =  Danskin leotard paired with those 13-button sailor pants from the surplus store.  

Not the most practical choice when navigating those nasty tavern bathrooms.  

But the beers were only a quarter!

Edited by kirklandia
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15 minutes ago, kirklandia said:

Not the most practical choice when navigating those nasty tavern bathrooms.

Or keeping my 2 or 3 Laura Ashley petticoats out of the muck....

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2 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Going back to those days, I haven't gotten younger.  I have, however, due to investments, gotten richer.  I have more money to spend now than I ever did in my 20s and 30s.  And to our Colombian judge, who also hasn't gotten younger, someone might point out that dresses can be too young, too fluffy and too cheap-looking.  

Likewise the colors of fabrics, the patterns, and the comfort of wearing them....these things do matter. 

Yes.  It boggles my mind that our demographic is dismissed when we likely have more money now than we did when we were in the target demo (kids are grown and independent, have reached a certain status in our careers, etc.).  

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2 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

No! Someone actually designed such a garment?  Did this person hate women or just women stupid enough to buy that?

Weren’t corsets laced and pulled tight from the back? Best to put the closure along a ‘smooth’ surface? I don’t think women came up with the whole binding of the female figure idea. From the waist to binding the feet in some cultures.

Plus, wasn’t it really “hot”  to see Laura Petrie turn and ask Rob to “zip me up”, lol?

Edited by Eulipian 5k · Reason: To, 2, or too
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I’m a big fan of the YouTube channel Priorattire, which is from a historical re-enactor who makes her own clothes, mostly handstitched. She shows exactly how useful stays and corsets were in pre-brassiere centuries for giving the girls support and were even easy to move in (and if the layers of clothes were made from the proper fabric, they were easy to maneuver in, as well). 

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7 hours ago, morakot said:

Or keeping my 2 or 3 Laura Ashley petticoats out of the muck....

Heh. Laura Ashley clothes were the bane of my early teen years.

It's often mentioned here that the clothes often don't have enough support or design for women's figures. Laura Ashley clothes had almost too much. I could never be in style, because I didn't have the bustline to fill out all of the "peasant" blouses and dresses that came with bosom support / room built in that were around at that time. I tried on a few, because the Little House on the Prairie look was in, but man, did they make me feel self-conscious, and I gave up rather quickly despite how pretty the patterns and designs were.

One thing I can say for the designers this season is that the best of them really try to fit their models' figures... I remember one designer in the past (the name escapes me) who actually used to complain that the models' breasts messed up his/her design aesthetic. My question used to be why would that designer even design clothing for women if he/she didn't want to account for a woman's breasts? It was baffling to me.

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16 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

One thing I can say for the designers this season is that the best of them really try to fit their models' figures... I remember one designer in the past (the name escapes me) who actually used to complain that the models' breasts messed up his/her design aesthetic. My question used to be why would that designer even design clothing for women if he/she didn't want to account for a woman's breasts? It was baffling to me.

That sounds like Olivier from season 9 with the faux-British accent.  He said that he wished women were flat-chested and some of the other designers said he would call the models fat.  

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On 6/6/2019 at 2:53 PM, kirklandia said:

Add a decade - that's my demographic.  

Our go-to "dressed up to get messed up" ensemble in the early seventies =  Danskin leotard paired with those 13-button sailor pants from the surplus store.  

Not the most practical choice when navigating those nasty tavern bathrooms.  

But the beers were only a quarter!

My twin. I’m 66 and this sounds just like my world in the ‘70s.

Also, do you actually live in Kirklandia? 😀 if so, we’re sort of neighbors. 

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29 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

My twin. I’m 66 and this sounds just like my world in the ‘70s.

Also, do you actually live in Kirklandia? 😀 if so, we’re sort of neighbors. 

98033!

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On 6/6/2019 at 12:46 PM, Eulipian 5k said:

Heh, the fashion god is an equal opportunity wedger. The length of men's zippers are so short these days there is no room to "reach in" to retrieve anything. That's why I assume "all the young dudes" wear them so low off the waist; just to give the boys some room to breathe, lol.

That's Cheap Hotel Syndrome... no ball room 😀

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