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Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

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On 10/22/2019 at 8:50 AM, Anduin said:

After that, I hate to link this, but I have to. They padded out her costume with boobs and butt.

I can understand why producers would get actors to work out. To make them look like they've spent their lives fighting evil, instead of enjoying the spoils of victory a little too much. But that's not an excuse in this case.

God forbid the 60-something cyborg-killing resistance fighter not provide some t and a.

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On 10/22/2019 at 6:34 AM, slf said:

I love how Linda Hamilton looks. She clearly hasn't gone the plastic surgery route, she's not getting fillers or botox. She looks like a woman in her early sixties who's lived and aged. No fucking way would Sarah Connor, the Mother of the Resistance, look like some weirdly smooth-faced socialite who Hasn't Aged A Day!; not after everything she's seen and done, not with the burdens she carries. She's gonna have wrinkles and age spots and sun damage- she's spent decades on the run from killer robots, including a stint in a mental institution, trying to prevent and then survive the apocalypse and raise her hotheaded son to be the savior of mankind. I highly doubt she'd have a 10 step skin routine. I'd be pissed if they'd plucked and stuffed Hamilton's face until she looked like Madonna.

I don't have feelings about the trailer one way or the other. Some good movies have bad trailers and some bad movies have good ones and I can't tell by the trailer which one this will be. But I am absolutely seeing this in theater because I have missed Sarah Connor.

I agree with you. I can just imagine her reaction to instagram (which I love, but can picture a "WTF is this?" reaction. 

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I thought it was fine. Good cast, and decent action, but the script was incredibly dull and predictable, and it mostly felt unnecessary. I don’t know when I’ve last seen a movie with such predictable “twists.”

Genisys had many, many problems, but at least it was trying something different.

That said, it’s still one of the better 2019 blockbusters.

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1 hour ago, ApathyMonger said:

I thought it was fine. Good cast, and decent action, but the script was incredibly dull and predictable, and it mostly felt unnecessary. I don’t know when I’ve last seen a movie with such predictable “twists.”

Genisys had many, many problems, but at least it was trying something different.

That said, it’s still one of the better 2019 blockbusters.

I was afraid of that. I heard Edward Furlong's John Connor is just a cameo and nothing more.

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Well, it seems this is tanking with an estimated 28K opening weekend. It is too bad that many people will go to see it. It just encourages these studios to keep trying to make movies so they will get "some" money. But I heard this one had a big budget so... not helpful. 

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4 hours ago, BooBear said:

Well, it seems this is tanking with an estimated 28K opening weekend. It is too bad that many people will go to see it. It just encourages these studios to keep trying to make movies so they will get "some" money. But I heard this one had a big budget so... not helpful. 

If despite the film's lackluster box office haul the studio decides to greenlight more Sarah Connor-led movies I, for one, will be very happy.

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4 hours ago, BooBear said:

Well, it seems this is tanking with an estimated 28K opening weekend. It is too bad that many people will go to see it. It just encourages these studios to keep trying to make movies so they will get "some" money. But I heard this one had a big budget so... not helpful. 

Oh, damn it! I hope I don't regret watching this. I got tickets for Tuesday. Damn, the trailer looked too promising.

I didn't know Cameron and Miller clashed on this film.

Edited by Robert Lynch

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I just got back from the movie and thought it was really, really intense and enjoyable. I do agree it's a better action movie/blockbuster than a Terminator movie, if that makes sense, but on the whole I thoroughly enjoyed it and would absolutely sign up to see more movies with Sarah and Dani.

The movie's main problem is that it has too much. Too many characters, too many OTT action set pieces, and too much exposition of things that would work better hinted at but not shown or explicitly told (aka most of the Grace backstory/Dani's future). At the same time, it handwaves major plot points a little too much ("Carl" grew a conscience and has been living a normal life all this time? Really???). I do wonder if some moments got left on the editing room floor for time, but I also kind of think the screenplay was just a mess. More broadly, this movie loses sight of the fact that what made the original Terminator and T2 great wasn't their five hundred set pieces (admittedly very well done) but the human moments in between. And when this movie slows down and lets its characters breathe, it is really affecting, it just needed to do that more. That said, it never drags--it's long as movies go these days but it doesn't feel it at all. In fact it flies by. The adrenaline is fairly nonstop.

Linda Hamilton was the movie's MVP. She gave a really solid, moving performance. Her realization that another dystopian future is upon her in the hotel room, and then her scene with Dani in the woods later, were probably the best scenes of the movie. She just owned what Sarah would be like 20+ years later after having had to watch a preteen John die in front of her. OTOH, Arnold totally phoned it in (I haven't seen the most recent few Terminator movies but this definitely felt like his goodbye/like he's ready to be done with the franchise). I liked the girl who played Dani well enough, but the one future scene where she's the inspirational leader was not great. It pains me to say it since I liked her in HACF, but I didn't love Mackenzie Davis in this. The Grace part was underwritten in some ways, but she didn't do a ton with it either. Not sure how much range she has.

I do love how, even if the future/savior/leader changes, Sarah Connor still ends up raising or at least mentoring that person. And Dani is John, but she's also Sarah. Some really interesting recursion there (though that may well have happened on accident...). I will give the movie props for surprising me with the end--I thought for sure everyone else would die protecting Dani and she rides off into the future alone a la Sarah in Terminator 1, or Dani would be left with Grace, but I didn't predict Grace dying and Sarah and Dani being the duo at the end.

Also, I thought all the callbacks to the original Terminator and T2 were great, as was the end scene, which I take to be a callback to the Sarah Connor Chronicles (really appropriately given the events of this movie).

I would definitely recommend this, and would go again if I had time in the next few weeks.

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I saw this movie tonight and actually enjoyed it for what it was. I enjoyed it more than the other Terminator movies of recent years. I don't even remember which ones were which - there was a Christian Bale one and an Emilia Clarke one. I don't really remember what happened in those. I was a huge fan of TSCC (never forget) and will never not be mad at Fox for cancelling it. Seriously. I haven't started a new show on Fox since then. 

I loved the new Terminator and I thought Linda Hamilton was great. I also appreciate how she looks her age. She looks amazing. 

That being said, I agree with others that the story was predictable (my husband called it, "formulaic") and the Big Reveal was very anticlimactic. 

I wasn't feeling the character of Grace and while I liked Dani, I didn't really see anything that made me believe that she was capable of starting and leading a resistance. I know she had big talking moments but I didn't necessarily believe her (lol). 

Overall, though, I enjoyed it. It felt like a real Terminator movie and I don't regret going to see it in theaters. 

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16 hours ago, stealinghome said:

I just got back from the movie and thought it was really, really intense and enjoyable. I do agree it's a better action movie/blockbuster than a Terminator movie, if that makes sense, but on the whole I thoroughly enjoyed it and would absolutely sign up to see more movies with Sarah and Dani.

The movie's main problem is that it has too much. Too many characters, too many OTT action set pieces, and too much exposition of things that would work better hinted at but not shown or explicitly told (aka most of the Grace backstory/Dani's future). At the same time, it handwaves major plot points a little too much ("Carl" grew a conscience and has been living a normal life all this time? Really???). I do wonder if some moments got left on the editing room floor for time, but I also kind of think the screenplay was just a mess. More broadly, this movie loses sight of the fact that what made the original Terminator and T2 great wasn't their five hundred set pieces (admittedly very well done) but the human moments in between. And when this movie slows down and lets its characters breathe, it is really affecting, it just needed to do that more. That said, it never drags--it's long as movies go these days but it doesn't feel it at all. In fact it flies by. The adrenaline is fairly nonstop.

Linda Hamilton was the movie's MVP. She gave a really solid, moving performance. Her realization that another dystopian future is upon her in the hotel room, and then her scene with Dani in the woods later, were probably the best scenes of the movie. She just owned what Sarah would be like 20+ years later after having had to watch a preteen John die in front of her. OTOH, Arnold totally phoned it in (I haven't seen the most recent few Terminator movies but this definitely felt like his goodbye/like he's ready to be done with the franchise). I liked the girl who played Dani well enough, but the one future scene where she's the inspirational leader was not great. It pains me to say it since I liked her in HACF, but I didn't love Mackenzie Davis in this. The Grace part was underwritten in some ways, but she didn't do a ton with it either. Not sure how much range she has.

I do love how, even if the future/savior/leader changes, Sarah Connor still ends up raising or at least mentoring that person. And Dani is John, but she's also Sarah. Some really interesting recursion there (though that may well have happened on accident...). I will give the movie props for surprising me with the end--I thought for sure everyone else would die protecting Dani and she rides off into the future alone a la Sarah in Terminator 1, or Dani would be left with Grace, but I didn't predict Grace dying and Sarah and Dani being the duo at the end.

Also, I thought all the callbacks to the original Terminator and T2 were great, as was the end scene, which I take to be a callback to the Sarah Connor Chronicles (really appropriately given the events of this movie).

I would definitely recommend this, and would go again if I had time in the next few weeks.

Now I am wondering how Mackenzie Davis would fare in the remake of The Innocents. Pretty big shoes to fill Deborah Kerr's performance there. 

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This movie bombed in North America and overseas, a sequel to Dark Fate is unlikely to see the light of day.  I doubt that will stop the studio from making Terminator movies, though.  They'll blame Dark Fate's fate on the female leads and cast some broody generic dude as John Connor when they try again.

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10 hours ago, junemeatcleaver said:

This movie bombed in North America and overseas, a sequel to Dark Fate is unlikely to see the light of day.  I doubt that will stop the studio from making Terminator movies, though.  They'll blame Dark Fate's fate on the female leads and cast some broody generic dude as John Connor when they try again.

It was in competition with Harriet and I think that's what killed Dark Fate.

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13 hours ago, junemeatcleaver said:

This movie bombed in North America and overseas, a sequel to Dark Fate is unlikely to see the light of day.  I doubt that will stop the studio from making Terminator movies, though.  They'll blame Dark Fate's fate on the female leads and cast some broody generic dude as John Connor when they try again.

I can't say I'm surprised.  I've been saying this for years...the time to have done a 3rd Terminator sequel was in the mid-90s.  By the time they finally did one, the demand wasn't there, Cameron and Hamilton weren't part of it and Arnold was past his prime as a box office star.  Not helping matters is that it's basically the exact same plot in every movie.  Skynet sending a Terminator back in time to kill so-and-so.  Skynet is like a government program that has never worked but politicians still throw money at.

Edited by benteen
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I just saw this yesterday and found it to be enjoyable although I have actually liked all of the movies to date.

There were a couple of things particular to this timeline (and it was explicitly called out as a branched timeline at one point) that don't quite fit with what we've seen so far. Carl learns to become more human but this means ignoring the deleted scene from T2 where this was accomplished by switching his chip from read-only mode into learning mode. The time-quakes that precede the arrival of a Terminator are also new. Genisys had Sarah and Pops waiting for the original T-800 to drop in but never said they detected him coming; if they knew exactly when and where it would have made more sense to avoid the T-on-T combat and have Pops on the rifle while Sarah provides the distraction. Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles also had Terminators dropping in every other week and Cameron (the Summer Glau one) never knew they were coming.

Legion was shown as having a different AI from Skynet which is appreciated. However, Legion didn't hesitate to swagger-jack everything else from Skynet, including specific names for things, such as HKs.

There is an XKCD comic, More Accurate, about a modern version of Terminator ending quickly with a drone strike. Someone in the production obviously saw that comic.

Speaking of things that look familiar, didn't I just see a movie recently where the heroine goes into battle against a tentacle-monster machine and she gets shredded by it and has to have her body rebuilt? Alita, is that you?

I guess the John Connor scene at the beginning was supposed to be shocking but there is a very similar opening scene in T:SCC. John Connor gets killed more often than not in the movies. In T3, he gets assassinated in the future by the T-850 they are traveling with in the present. In T4, the T-RIP (prototype for the T-800) kills him and he only survives courtesy of a heart transplant from Marcus. In T5, John dies twice - first, the human version when the T-5000 grabs him and later the Terminator version when they use the time machine to rip him apart. T:SCC also ended with a future war where John Connor was nobody in particular and the resistance was being led by someone else.

I got a kick out of Gabriel Luna's Rev-9 having a sense of remorse. Not only when checking in to the Immigration facility but also when he falls out of the sky and walks through someone's backyard BBQ (while they are listening to the bar music from T2!) apologizing for fucking their shed up. I also loved when he played up a Texas accent and talked about how he's never prayed so much as in the last five minutes while talking to some cops. By and large he never slips up, dogs the heroes the whole time and doesn't die until they jam a future power source directly into his face (kinda like how they killed the T-X in T-3). He's definitely one of my favorite villain Terminators alongside Myron Stark from T:SCC and the T-1000.

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8 hours ago, Anduin said:

I'm not going to turn off adblock. But when I watched the trailers, they left me cold. I just couldn't muster the enthusiasm to watch it.

It was okay. Judging how many screenwriters this had, I knew it was going to be a mess.

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Maybe it's just me, I can't help thinking the reviews were better until the under-performing US opening ("We can't go giving a good review to something that's flopped!")

I wonder what the expectations of Terminator sequels are. To me it seems obvious that Terminator - although well known - just doesn't have anywhere near the reach or number of fans as something like Star Wars. To me, that alone answers why The Force Awakens was going to make a whole load more, even if it was a copy of the original storyline far more than Dark Fate was.

Terminator 3/4/5 made $433m/$371m/$441m - all less than T2 (especially factoring in inflation), and not massive hits, but are they commercial flops? Other films (including series say The Expendables) have made less. It seems the problem is they spend so much on marketing for Terminator that it's hard to break even. (E.g., Wikipedia quotes a source saying Genisys needed $450m to break even - I don't understand how that comes from a $155m budget and $50-100m on marketing?)

The other problem is this repeated cycle where it's decided Terminator is a flop and the plans for sequels are scrapped, until a few years when someone else decides to have enough go, so continuity suffers. Imagine if Marvel gave up after The Hulk's $263m!

Well, I liked it, I'd be happy to watch it again. It suffered a bit of too many main characters making it hard for the new main character to shine through.

The idea of an evil AI rise being inevitable was covered in both T3 and the TV series, but it seemed better done here, e.g., that it would change which people were important in the future timeline. Cameron's vision for sequels was that Sarah would find a way to end this ever happening, and I guess we'll never see how now. (It seems to me the only options are to either prevent such a super intelligence ever arising by destorying all technology, or make sure that a good super intelligence arises.)

I was fine with not making John Connor part of it. There were already too many main characters. The first two films were really about Sarah not John. If people want to see sequels with John, that's Terminator 3/4/5. And I think they suffered because it's hard to show the reality of the character growing up into the myth that was made of him - especially in an altered future.

The idea of a terminator growing a conscience and living a family life seems funny, but I'm reminded of the scene in T2 where the T1000 has murdered John's foster mum, and is meanwhile at home cooking and preparing dinner.

There were a couple of things particular to this timeline (and it was explicitly called out as a branched timeline at one point) that don't quite fit with what we've seen so far. ... The time-quakes that precede the arrival of a Terminator are also new.

That's a good point. To be honest, I took the intention to be that Terminator/T2/Dark Fate should be considered an entirely separate story, i.e., nothing in the other films or TV series were canon to this story. However, they did indeed make the "separate timeline" argument, and as you say, this doesn't work. Personally it's a pet hate of mine when writers use the "separate timeline" argument rather than just saying it's a different story (unless it's explicitly part of the plot, e.g., Star Trek's reboot). I can happily watch separate Batman film series without having to pretend they all exist in different parallel universes or timelines.
 

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Saw it today and enjoyed it. I did figure a part of the plot point, that Dani was the savior. Loved Linda Hamilton in this, she did a great job and yes I enjoyed seeing Arnold and figured he would die in the end.

Also loved the new Terminator and the double body concept.

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On 11/9/2019 at 9:17 AM, markx said:

It seems the problem is they spend so much on marketing for Terminator that it's hard to break even. (E.g., Wikipedia quotes a source saying Genisys needed $450m to break even - I don't understand how that comes from a $155m budget and $50-100m on marketing?)

It's because the studios only get about half the box office take.  It's an approximation, but a pretty reliable one.

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Saw it yesterday at a 3 pm show.  Theatre was barely full. 

The plot seemed recycled. Hated that 

Spoiler

they killed John early in the film and wish he grew up and because they missed Judgement Day he and Sarah would help Dani be the new saviour.

Alot of plot points were far fetched.  I was curious to know if the army guy who gave Sarah the weapons was Dyson's son.  Anyone !??!?!  They never explained how she knew him.

I only saw it for Linda Hamilton and she delivered. Everyone else and plot was meh.

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Alot of plot points were far fetched.  I was curious to know if the army guy who gave Sarah the weapons was Dyson's son.  Anyone !??!?!  They never explained how she knew him.

Yeah, I was TOTALLY waiting for the reveal that the Major was Dyson's son, and then it never came! I would love to know if it ended up on a cutting room floor someone or if that was never the intent....

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On 11/10/2019 at 5:58 PM, greekmom said:

Saw it yesterday at a 3 pm show.  Theatre was barely full. 

The plot seemed recycled. Hated that 

  Reveal spoiler

they killed John early in the film and wish he grew up and because they missed Judgement Day he and Sarah would help Dani be the new saviour.

Alot of plot points were far fetched.  I was curious to know if the army guy who gave Sarah the weapons was Dyson's son.  Anyone !??!?!  They never explained how she knew him.

I only saw it for Linda Hamilton and she delivered. Everyone else and plot was meh.

I think the major reason for Edward Furlong's short cameo is because of his drastic weight gain and all the drug abuse he endured over the years. However, I think the damage was done when Edward hooked up with that 20 something tutor of his during the Terminator 2 days. And you know that would not have worked due to their age difference, despite their first eight years together.

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Just came back from seeing it and I'm pretty damn happy with it. 
Loved that they incorporated Sarah's crazy talk video into the logos at the start especially because it was a great way to include Dr. Silber!!! What would a T movie be with out Silber!!!

The CGI during the assassination scene was killer.

Loved Linda through and through. Had no problem believing Dani could be the leader of the Resistance since they made it clear that she was the alpha in her family.

The action scene in the factory/industrial setting being placed at the beginning (rather than the end like T1 and T2) was a lovely touch. 

Set in Mexico and no "Asta la vista baby". Thank you for showing restraint.

 SCC established that a Terminator with a lot of time on his hands could evolve and be a do-gooder, so no problem with Carl.  Myron Stark for President!

When the T1 music started up I got all verklempt.

Missed opportunity: Kyle Reese would have been alive and well in this world.  Just saying.

Favorite line: "Yeah, cause otherwise, this might be dangerous!"

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1 hour ago, MrsR said:

 SCC established that a Terminator with a lot of time on his hands could evolve and be a do-gooder, so no problem with Carl.  Myron Stark for President!

I'd say Myron Stark adapted more than he evolved. His hallmark was that he wasn't concerned with the societal mores of the day. So in order to get the job done he hired non-white labor and paid his workforce double the usual wages. As I put it elsewhere, he's still out to end humanity but he's not going to be a dick about it.

We did see some Terminator evolution on the show though. Cameron is certainly not a typical Terminator and she went beyond her programming a few notable times on the show. Vick Chamberlain played house for a while, replacing his human counterpart and fooling his wife. Catherine Weaver did some things that weren't mission-critical as well.

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Just rented it ... and I can understand the lack of enthusiasm for this movie. 
The entire story is stuck on repeat: Killer robot and also a protector come from the future to kill/save someone: running and fighting ensue. 
None of the tweaks and twists to that story made it feel any fresher: gender swaps, current immigration issues, human enhancements, etc. 

The action sequences even started to feel repetitive and numbing. It did not help that the over-the-top sequences near the end of the movie were somewhat confusing with regards to who was doing what to whom (at least to me). 

One of the most irritating aspects of these Terminator movies is that we are shown how lethal the robots are - taking out a a small army of guards - but the target character (who is to be terminated) always ends up in face-to-face combat with the robot that could easily kill them at any moment. 

Someone in the always-apocalyptic  future really needs to address the endless amount and constant use of time-travel technology. It's like Amazon levels of time-displaced package delivery. 

Edited by shrewd.buddha

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Watched this the other night. I enjoyed LH and AS. LH still kicks ass.  I didn't mind Dani but really didn't buy the relationship between her and Grace. Grace was actually my least favorite part. Story was predictable, action was good though some scenes did drag. I enjoyed this more than I thought considering the reviews.

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