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S08.E06: The Iron Throne

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He's the hero Westeros deserves , but not the one it needs right now.

And yet they gave Dany the Batman imagery. 🙄

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I'm always on the wrong side of things. When everyone lost their shit over Dany predictably torching Kings Landing, I defended it. Now everyone I know seems satisfied with the finale, and I thought it was a bucket of suck. At least the show is finally over. I always enjoyed watching it, and it had some really great moments over the years, but its quality was blown way out of proportion. Sure, it had spectacular production value and some great stories, but it's not the greatest show in the history of television or anything. Time to move on to the next thing. Overall D&D did a pretty good job with all of this. Hope they don't go into hiding after all the entitled fandom temper tantrums.

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10 hours ago, Beachdreamer said:

What happened to Gendry?  Wasn't he sent to be a Lord over Baratheon Lands?  Why wouldn't he be important enough to be sitting there at the end?

I love Brienne, but on what authority was she there with her own vote?

I saw him, I thought, with the others. Next to Sansa's uncle, I think.

Brienne may be the only one standing from her family - her father was Lord of something, as I recall.

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The full conversation following Jon screaming at Daenerys about what's down in the KL streets:
 

Spoiler

I tried to make peace with Cersei.  She used their innocence as a weapon against me.  She thought it would cripple me.

And Tyrion?

He conspired behind my back with my enemies. How have you treated people who have done the same to you, even when it broke your heart?

Forgive him.

I can't.

You can.  You can forgive all of them. Make them see they've made a mistake, make them understand.  Please, Dany.

We can't hide behind small mercies.  The world we need won't be built by men loyal to the world we have.

The world we need is a world of mercy, it has to be. 

And it will be.  It's not easy to see something that's never been before.  A good world. 

How do you know?  How do you know it will be good?

Because I know what is good, and so do you.

I don't.

You do.  You do, you've always known.

What about everyone else?  All the other people who think they know what's good?

They don't get to choose.  Be with me.  Build the world with me.  This is our reason.  it has been from the beginning since you were a little boy with a bastard's name and I was a little girl who couldn't count to 20.  We do it together.  We break the wheel together. 

You are my queen.  Now and always. 

*They kiss and Jon does a terrible thing*

Drogon shows up immediately, having climbed up the castle walls. 

He knew Jon was going to kill her. 

He definitely knew it when he let him enter the Throne Room....

But in hindsight, he may have known it here:

game-of-thrones-kiss-dragon.gif

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6 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Whew, thank goodness Jaime or Cersei's eyes didn't pop open when Tyrion found them.

"Why do you think I came all this way?" Smug much, Bran?

Jon saved the world from Dany's continued reign of terror and got permanently banished for it. What kind of sense does that make?

Wherever the Unsullied went that would been the beginning of the end of for them, right? They can't procreate.

As far a series finales I didn't hate it. I think GoT has been a great ride even if things did sputter a bit at the end.

I guess you heard me saying, "That bitch better not take a breath".  I was worried. 

They only framed Jon's exile as punishment to satisfy Grey Worm.  Anyone who really knew Jon knew he would be just fine North of the Wall. 

I was cool with the ending.

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Just now, Stardancer Supreme said:

They only framed Jon's exile as punishment to satisfy Grey Worm.  Anyone who really knew Jon knew he would be just fine North of the Wall. 

I was cool with the ending.

Totes. This is the only ending for Jon, and a fitting one.

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8 minutes ago, Kate47 said:

It's basically come back around full circle, where the council makes decisions for a King who isn't interested at all in sitting in on the meetings or helping to rule. Used to be Bobby B, now it's Bran the B. 

It really did feel like fanfiction. 

In some ways it's worse.

Robert Baratheon at least had enough charisma that men would follow him into battle.

Then there's Bran's reaction to Meera's departure.

Quote

Bran: You're leaving?

Meera: I don't want to leave you, but when they come I need to be with my family. And you're safe, safe as anyone can be now. You don't need me anymore.

Bran: No, I don't.

Meera: That's all you've got to say?

Bran: Thank you.

Meera: Thank you?

Bran: For helping me.

Meera: My brother died for you. Hodor and Summer died for you. I almost died for you. Bran!

Bran: I'm not really, not anymore. I remember what it felt like to be Brandon Stark, but I remember so much else now.

People don't want a robot for a king

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Disappointing whole last season. 

Outside of Arya killing the Night King, just did not live up to anything that was built up to over the prior seasons

Why exactly do they still need a Night's Watch? 

Edmere trying to be king, that was funny.

But he still would have been a better choice than Bran

Can't bran see the future?  And by seeing the future and being King, if he acts on seeing the future, doesn't that change the future?  Confusing

Could have at least let Tormund end up with Brienne

If I were Ghost, I would have bit John's hand off and snarled for him to get lost

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1 hour ago, LongDistanceClara said:

I don't see why they would go to Naath since Vales Dothrak is still around. They would have no reason to follow the Unsullied. They'll just run on home and go back to their regularly scheduled raping and pillaging. 

Actually, having the Dothraki mysteriously poof without and closure annoyed me too! After all, they were a big part of Dany's story. It's kind of an injustice really.

No more than them mysteriously showing up last episode after we thought they had all been killed in the battle with the white walkers. 

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This might have been mentioned already, but did anyone notice how two of the scenes seemed to be directed at fans' complaints about the season?  One was Jon petting Ghost.  The other was Sam's idea of democratically choosing the ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, as in, fans democratically deciding how the show ends.  Which then got shot down with laughter by the council as in, D&D.

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The show would have had much more gravity if BOTH jon and tyrion were executed or at least Tyrion. The notion that the Unsullied and Dothraki would conquer KL under their queen and then when she is murdered day later by a Northerner (who I suppose told them he did it?) their response would be to summon the lords and ladies of Westeros to pass judgement is just...the very worst. Grey Worm let Tyrion decide how to proceed? He let Tyrion tell him that he didnt have the right to decide fate of person who killed their Queen? At the very least the play should have been Tyrion arguing that Jon is the true King and therefore actually in charge. And Sansa's stupid threat about Northern armies ready to fight if Jon wasnt returned? Grey Worm would have run her thru right then, he has no reason to respect these people that recruited Dany to their mind-boggling stupid mission and then KILLED HER once she ridded them of THEIR problems ie NK and Cersei. So, so, SOOOO weak.

3 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

No more than them mysteriously showing up last episode after we thought they had all been killed in the battle with the white walkers. 

Love how their was suddenly a massive Northern army outside KL waiting to dispatch the Unsullied and Dothraki...guess more people hid in crypts under WF than we realized.

Edited by tv-talk
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7 hours ago, BookElitist said:

UPON  FURTHER  SEETHiNG  and  REFLECTiON :

*I could not stand that Tyrion ponderously pontificated. 

*I utterly disliked Jaime, so Brienne’s semi-laud was repugnant.

*Felt no sympathy for/with Tyrion weeping over two siblings who treated him dismissively and like $#!+ .

Well on this one, to be fair, he was weeping over his brother, not Cersei, I think.  His brother he stated was the only one who ever stood up for him in his family

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8 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

we see what looks like a pile of snow covered rubble. Instead it's Drogon curled up in a ball. Do you think this was because he was depressed?

And he let Jon pass by to approach Dany without any problem.

He was intelligent enough to aim his dragon fire at the true source of Dany's misery. I think he is my favourite character in the whole show (next to Ghost, of course).

Jon was never a threat to Dany,so of course he would let him pass.  After the death, I think he would not bring fire on Jon because he has 1/2 Tygarean smell.  I take it he was angry and sad and let it rip on the throne.  Kinda of like being mad at your brother and punching the wall NEAR his face. 

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7 hours ago, Butless said:

That crown was disappointing. It looked like a belt.

Sansa was disappointing, so there's that.

7 hours ago, SueB said:

Arya - AWESOME ship.  I think she stayed in KL to have Jon's back.  I don't think he would have listened to Tyrion if Arya hadn't already told him that Dany would end up killing him.  

I think this, too.  I especially liked how she jumped to Jon's defense and threatened Yara.  LOL  A Girl takes no shit.  

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Ugh, Bran.

Someone on Twitter said he is textbook "man failing up" - I have to agree. 

Just like last episode didn't ring true for the Dany fans, this one didn't ring true for me and Jon Snow. Even though I'm not a big fan of Jon, and didn't want him on the throne, I just didn't believe it. 

Good on Sansa. 

I kind of hope that Drogon will just come back and randomly torch Westeros every so often.  But I'm mean like that.

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1 minute ago, tv-talk said:

The show would have had much more gravity if BOTH jon and tyrion were executed or at least Tyrion.

Tyrion should have died. Execution or not I don't care. But the guy pretty much did all the legwork for the 3ER. It was his plan that brought the wall down. He stopped Varys by snitching on him which ensured Dany's survival and the burning of KL. At the very least I expected justice for the dead. Dany got hers but where is Tyrion's? But of course not, he's Benioff's self insert so Tyrion can screw up forever, get millions killed and snitch on people without whom he wouldn't even be alive in the first place (Varys). And there are no consequences for him. Ever.

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1 minute ago, Smad said:

he's Benioff's self insert so Tyrion can screw up forever, get millions killed and snitch on people without whom he wouldn't even be alive in the first place (Varys). And there are no consequences for him. Ever.

Best line in episode was when Tyrion started to talk and Grey Worm yelled something along lines of "STFU you have done enough talking!" Everyone present should have stood up and clapped, made decision without him.

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11 minutes ago, Mardo2044 said:

Jon was never a threat to Dany,so of course he would let him pass.  After the death, I think he would not bring fire on Jon because he has 1/2 Tygarean smell. 

The Targaryan's were well known to murder each other to ascend without getting torched by victim's dragons, so I would think that having their blood makes for the dragons to give them a pass on most things. In fact it's possible Drogon would have killed anyone else who had come to see Dany.

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Brienne: Dear diary, I am the first female leader of the kingsguard, I am a badass fighter and one of the most honorable people on this show, I have earned my effing stripes. I’m also okay with being reduced to a deflowered pathetic girl by the producers with my last story arc to be fully secondary to and at the service of a fuckboi.

burn it with fire.

Edited by ticklemepink
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9 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

How does Sansa know Bran can't father children, by the way? His 🍆 isn't paralyzed as well, is it?

They could have called him Bran the Boneless!

Wait.... that title is already taken in TV land.

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9 hours ago, Sparger Springs said:

Brieene should've wrote Jamie was a fuckboi. 

When she turned to do a second page, I could only hope she'd find more interesting (shady) things to write.

  • Squired for Battistan Selmy against the Kingswood Outlaws.
  • Knighted and named to the Kingsguard in his sixteenth year for valour in the field: at the Sack of Kings Landing, murdered his king Aerys the second at the foot of the Iron Throne
  • Pardoned by King Robert Baratheon
  • Thereafter known as The Kingslayer
  • After the murder of King Joffrey I by Tyrion Lannister served under King Tommen I
  • Captured in the field at the Whispering Wood
  • Set free by Lady Catelyn Stark in return for an oath to find and defend her two daughters
  • Lost his hand
  • Took Riverrun from the Tully rebels, without loss of life
  • Lured the Unsullied into attacking Casterly Rock, sacrificing his childhood home in service to a greater strategy
  • Outwitted the Targaryen forces to seize Highgarden
  • Fought at the Battle of the Goldroad bravely, narrowly escaping death by dragonfire
  • Pledged himself to the forces of men and rode north to join them at Winterfell, alone
  • Faced the Army of the Dead and defended the castle against impossible offes until the defeat of the Night King
  • Escaped imprisonment and rode south in an attempt to save the capital from destruction
  • Died protecting his Queen
  • Constantly smelled of secondhand alcoholism
  • Terrible sense of humor
  • Foreplay game weak
  • Small peesh
  • Refuses to go "downtown"
  • Doesn't call the next day
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10 hours ago, nilyank said:

This was the finale?

One death. No marriages. No babies. No happiness.

"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." 

To be honest, I this was a far happier ending than I ever expected.  And I keep waffling back and forth as to whether I am disappointed in it.  On the one hand I kind of like the story coming full circle.  On the other hand, nothing really changed.  The Seven...excuse me Six, Kingdoms are down one ugly thrown and up one creepy king.  I always kind envisioned the story as epically changing Westeros, and it didn't really do that.

Forgive me this is going to be long.

One of my biggest issues with this season and by extension the show as a whole is the short shrift giving to the Night King and the White Walkers.  Winter might have come, but it seemed rather mild to me.  When you open a show hinting at this mysterious threat from the north, call me crazy, but I think it should be the main conflict of the show.  It should not take one episode mid-way through the last season to completely resolve the threat. I always kind of thought that the main point of the show was that humans were wasting time dicking around playing the game of thrones when the actual threat was slowing walking south.  It seemed rather obvious to me in the first season.  I kind of thought that it ultimately wouldn't matter who was on the Iron Throne.  But in the end, it was more pointless squabbling over who sat on the throne.  The White Walkers were just a speed bump in the story, not the main antagonist.  I'm not sure if meant to show things never change, but I really do think it's poor storytelling not to make the defeat of the White Walkers the climax of the story.

I know a lot of people's biggest issue is the treatment of Dany's character.  I honestly don't hate what they did.  I think Tyrion's speech to Jon did a really good pointing out how everyone, including the audience, was pulled into Dany's vision because she was doing the awful things to awful people...until they were only awful in Dany's mind.  And I did like that until the moment she died Dany sincerely thought she was doing the right thing.  People rarely think they're the villain.  Dany was a victim of believing in her own hype.  She was "The Breaker of Chains," she was "Mhysa."  That being said, they rushed her fall...way too fast.  I think this season suffered from the writers knowing where they wanted to end up and skipping over some points in order to just to get there, and nowhere was that more evident than in Dany's story.  There was a huge jump from burning slavers, to burning Kings Landing, and they skipped most of the hints that she would go there.  I slow descent of this righteous character into a monster, especially if her ideas were still good, would have been super compelling.  What we got was a nose dive into monster-hood.  Either they should have started hinting at what Dany was ultimately capable of way earlier in the story (and I agree there are some hints sprinkled from the first season on, but they aren't strong enough), or modified the story a little and had Jon kill her just as she was starting to slip down that slope.

An easy fix would have been for the burning of Kings Landing not to have been intentional.  The Dany we were presented up until that point, I could totally buy being reckless to take revenge on Cersei.  Have Dany burn the Red Keep trying to kill Cersei and inadvertently have that set off the wildfire hidden throughout the city, burning it.  Then when confronted have Dany feel sorry that innocent people died, but still, think it was worth it to crush the people standing in her way.  Have her make the same speech about breaking the wheel and freeing the world.  Now there is a real conflict for Jon.  Is Dany going to become a monster?  Should he stop her now? And instead of it being black and white that Jon needed to kill her, it's way more grey.  And also Dany's story becomes even more tragic.  Instead of a monster, who killed children on purpose, she's just misguided.  It's a little change that would have made the story work better, fit the characters we know better, and still would have gotten to the same point in the same amount of time.

I did think that the scene of Jon stabbing Dany was really well done and quite well acted.  I actually really liked this last episode up past Drogon flying off with Dany's body (which seemed really fitting).

I didn't care for the whole choosing a king scene, which seemed all kinds of fanfiction-y.  The broken boy gets to become king...okay.  It just doesn't seem to be in keeping with the tone of the rest of Game of Thrones.  I don't mind Sansa winding up as Queen in North and I kind of like Jon winding back up at the Night's Watch....I'm not sure why they still exist though.  If they had done a better job with the Night King storyline, I think they could have hinted that they might someday return.  Then they could have had the Night's Watch be a real order again (instead of a haven for criminals) and Jon leading it would have a perfect ending.  "I am the shield that guards the realms of man..."  And how did they fix the wall?

Overall I think the eighth season wasn't the greatest, but I am going to miss the show.

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8 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Yes, but Unsullied were raised to not care about dying.  Greyworm had lost everything..what logically did he care about that would have prevented him from quickly killing both of them while they were in captivity and just taking the consequences?  Their life expectancy was not high before or after Dany acquired them and I am sure he never expected to live long an prosper...why not go out fighting, that is what they trained for their whole lives.  Lazy writing that did not make any sense.....

Because he grew past emotionless killer for his queen... He envisioned doing something for himself... He also had his men to think about... In my opinion if he had thrown that all away cuz Dany got killed and risked all his men and the future he told missandei he wanted with her.. That would been worse.. Then he's an angry attack dog

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For better and worse Cersei and Jamie were in fact this shows romantic couple and the Starks were in fact this shows heroic family so ending with Cersei and Jamie dying in each other’s arms was a proper end for them.   The only end I didn’t really see coming was Bran getting the Iron Throne.   Arya was a Wonderer and she wouldn’t be happy in any one kingdom.  Sansa was the true power in the North.  So who was really left to rule the remaining kingdoms?

And yes in the end Cersei and Dany were equally as bad.  I think they would have burned the world down for power.  Killed countless innocents all to sit on the thrown.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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8 hours ago, Butless said:

The brown people not only leave racist Westros, they literally sail away in a boat to an island. 

Holding my head, here.

Why are you holding your head ?

The Unsullied chose to leave even though they were offered land  and the Dothraki from what we saw of the docks were staying and probably took the deal .

To be fair the people of Westeros just watched these peace loving brown people (who had been brought to conquer them by the Necromonger) had just went on a killing/raping spree where 10s of thousands of innocent people were murdered .

So yeah extending the hand of friendship and asking them to stay (and I saw the 2 mules jokes and it is not the same as the Unsullied were never slaves in Westeros ) is really racist /s

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56 minutes ago, AuxArx said:

Tyrion must be a little OCD...he put all the chairs just so and then grimaced when everyone moved them.  I thought that was funny.

It was a callback to his passive aggressive chair battles with Cersei and Tywin. 

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3 minutes ago, Humbugged said:

To be fair the people of Westeros just watched these peace loving brown people (who had been brought to conquer them by the Necromonger) had just went on a killing/raping spree where 10s of thousands of innocent people were murdered .

Actually the people assembled saw these brown people get slaughtered in defense for some frozen shithole up North where they never wanted to go and all in service of the asshole who knifed their queen as soon as she had accomplished what they'd been telling her to do all along ie remove Cersei. I'm glad Jon didnt die but Grey Worm should have and WOULD HAVE executed Tyrion and him rather than putting out a call to WF to wait weeks for Sansa to arrive and threaten him. That was total BS.

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8 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

In my opinion if he had thrown that all away cuz Dany got killed and risked all his men and the future he told missandei he wanted with her.. That would been worse.. Then he's an angry attack dog

What would he have been throwing away? Jon murdered the rightful queen, he's "the Queenslayer" and Grey's response is to send some fucking pigeons to WF saying "Sansa please come quick, we need Westorsi royals to tell us how to handle the Westorosi who killed the Queen." Nah.

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The saddest thing is that Jaime's right hand- which had come back briefly in the last episode is sadly gone again in this one.

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This finale was bittersweet as hell and I loved it. I saw very little of it coming (except Jon killing Dany and Drogon unwittingly allowing him the opportunity) but almost all of it made sense to me.

I thought Tyrion made it clear in his speech that his choice for King was not because Bran was male, or because of Bran's family name (Bran himself has told us he's not Bran anymore), but because Bran represents knowledge, an omniscient memory of the best and worst of humanity. At first I had doubts because Bran is so dispassionate (not a great attribute for a ruler) but I think we're also supposed to see him as completely unselfish as a result of his change. He'll never produce an heir to potentially screw everything up. I wanted no one on the throne at the end, and I got everyone. I'm cool with it.

Sansa becoming Queen in the North and Arya leaving on her adventures were both perfect to me. I'm in the camp that believes Sansa has been completely done with the South since the last time she left it. She has no machinations surrounding it and only wants what's best for the North. She's proven herself capable of determining what that is. And this was the best possible ending for broken Arya, who's almost exclusively seen the worst the world has to offer. She loves her family, but a life bound by rules--even new rules--is not for her.

I was genuinely sad for Dany as well as chilled to the bone when she confirmed to Jon, once and for all, that only she could decide what is Good. I liked that her death was a small, intimate moment and not a grand one. Drogon's grief and pain moved me deeply. I liked that they showed his awareness (beyond that of a pet) that the throne his mother became so consumed by brought about her fall, and his understanding that Jon wanted nothing less in that moment than to kill Dany.

I always believed Jon would end up in the True North, and I'm glad he did. I took the re-establishment of the Night's Watch to be purely procedural. What's left for the Wall to protect against, after all? I read that part as the council saying "This is what we call the organization we exile people to, but we don't really care what you do, as long as you never come south."

The only things I didn't like were how freaking long it STILL took Tyrion to bring Jon around to the fact that Dany was lost, and Bronn on the small council. Seriously?? Who's going to trust this dude with anything?

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I wasn't disappointed in the ending because I was expecting it to be as lackluster as the 5 episodes before it. This disjointed, rushed, nonsensical last season prepared me for the let down. This season & finale could have been so much more than just a few great scenes here and there but the writers and producers lost interest and phoned it in.

They shot their legacy in the foot.

This season is Godfather 3

Edited by Giselle · Reason: The butter is too hard for my toast this morning.
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39 minutes ago, Dobian said:

This might have been mentioned already, but did anyone notice how two of the scenes seemed to be directed at fans' complaints about the season?  One was Jon petting Ghost.  The other was Sam's idea of democratically choosing the ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, as in, fans democratically deciding how the show ends.  Which then got shot down with laughter by the council as in, D&D.

Everyone having a laugh at Sam's suggestion was one of the bits I liked about the episode. Westeros transitioning to a democracy would be too much of a happy ending for this series, and not really believable at all. Westeros is a crapsack medieval world lacking the necessary cultural foundation for democracy to ever have a shot at success. 

Fans who wanted the series to end with The Republic of Westeros weren't paying attention, as it is not plausible that any lord in the Seven Kingdoms would ever accept it.

Edited by Scaeva
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Well in 25 years when Arryjon Stark ( hes definitely mixed btw)  comes back to Westeros on his mother's flagship with the rest of his mother's imperial western army so she can be buried at Winterfell we can start it all up again... 

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42 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

No more than them mysteriously showing up last episode after we thought they had all been killed in the battle with the white walkers. 

And not only did they come back. There are MORE now than when half of them were killed.

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After going dark with the penultimate episode, they went with just about the most fan-servicey ending possible under the circumstances.

People I know have said, "That's not true; poor Jon had to take the black!" But I remember a lot of people, prior to the finale, saying that the ideal ending for Jon would be going off to live north of the wall to play with Ghost and hang out with Tormund. So no, I'm not seeing this as a particularly sad ending for him.

Meanwhile the other Stark kids get exactly what they want. And just about every likeable surviving character is given a cushy position. And everyone's fine with the North being given independence, and no one else - not even Yara - wants it for themselves. 

And then the ultimate absurdity, the completely merciless Grey Worm deciding to spare Jon and Tyrion, and wait for the high-born people of Westeros to chime in. What?

The writers might as well have given all the Starks unicorns that shit cupcakes. It just doesn't fit with what the show used to be.

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42 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

They also sort of forget that the butterflies of Naath carry a disease that only the native are immune to and kills all outsiders who stay there for any extended period of time. 

Honestly, I've forgotten this too. I have no memory of it. But then isn't it kinds horrible that Missendei didn't mention it when she and GW were making their post war plans?

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If this is what they were working toward all this time- that Bran becomes the King- then they should have done it Game of Thrones style.  This should have ended with the throne intact, and on the platform with the lords and ladies of Westeros.  Tyrion should have asked Bran, will you do it, and Bran should have stood up, with an evil gleam in his eye, and said in a chilling voice, "Why do you think I came all this way," and then walked over to take the throne.

End scene as the audience realizes he always saw this ending and was, in more ways than one, the catalyst for everything that got us here. That he was always conspiring to take the throne himself.  Mic Drop.

Instead they have him act like a bored stoned teenager who can't even be bothered sitting through the first council meeting.  Lame.

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I'm a little perplexed by Brienne's comment about Jamie dying protecting his queen. Was she referring to Cersei or to Dany in a roundabout way?

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19 minutes ago, Proclone said:

An easy fix would have been for the burning of Kings Landing not to have been intentional.  The Dany we were presented up until that point, I could totally buy being reckless to take revenge on Cersei.  Have Dany burn the Red Keep trying to kill Cersei and inadvertently have that set off the wildfire hidden throughout the city, burning it.  Then when confronted have Dany feel sorry that innocent people died, but still, think it was worth it to crush the people standing in her way.  Have her make the same speech about breaking the wheel and freeing the world.  Now there is a real conflict for Jon.  Is Dany going to become a monster?  Should he stop her now? And instead of it being black and white that Jon needed to kill her, it's way more grey.  And also Dany's story becomes even more tragic.  Instead of a monster, who killed children on purpose, she's just misguided.  It's a little change that would have made the story work better, fit the characters we know better, and still would have gotten to the same point in the same amount of time.

This. Exactly this. Could no one in the writer's room come up with something like that? Would've been much better. This kind of thing is true of nearly every single screw up this season. I.e. there should've been a scene:

Davos (or anyone really): we'll put the women and children in the crypt to wait out the fight
Tyrion: Hmm... excuse me? Aren't we fighting someone who can RAISE THE DEAD? Don't they have dead people in the crypt? That sounds... unwise. 
*characters argue*
Sansa/John/whoever: Right, but still it will be less dead people than the rest of winterfell. Let's put some people there with valeryan steel and stay positioned away from the actual coffins.

*Scene plays out, instead of being surprised they've been staring at the coffins all night. Still some people get hurt. Most survive.* 


I can't even with Bran. The actor didn't do anything this season. The character barely had lines. None of it worked. None. The only reason they seem to have done it is to do the "the one you least expect it" card. Which was bs. 

 

25 minutes ago, Proclone said:

I did think that the scene of Jon stabbing Dany was really well done and quite well acted.  I actually really liked this last episode up past Drogon flying off with Dany's body (which seemed really fitting).

Yeah that was fitting, the whole scene was really nice. She didn't even get to sit on the throne, just barely touch it. Also, shades of Buffy/Angel, 21 years exactly before this episode in a more dramatic version of accounts. Kill the one you love to save the world. I don't mind he had to be talked into it by Tyrion because I really like Tyrion's speech. I actually don't find the storyline unbelievable. I find it poorly done. There's a difference.

 

27 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Yes, but Unsullied were raised to not care about dying.  Greyworm had lost everything..what logically did he care about that would have prevented him from quickly killing both of them while they were in captivity and just taking the consequences?

Yes, I also call BS on that. The second they had Jon, he'd be dead. They and the Dothraki (who were magically back from the dead) were loyal to her, not anyone else. I half expected John to hop on Drogon's back, because that would've made more sense than what they had play out. 

The council scene was funny, but seemed to belong in a different show altogether. As did the democracy laugh. 
 

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Watched it again this morning (and glad that I took the day off because I got zero sleep last night) and with the sole exception of Bran being named King (because, the hell...?), I'm actually more than okay with most of the conclusion. It might not be how I would have wanted things to end because I do love a neat ending, but it does make a lot of sense. Because while the story might be over, life goes on and it doesn't all get tied up in a neat, happy little bow.

I'm kind of glad that Jon was sent to the True North. It was where he'd found purpose and acceptance, both with the NW and the Wildlings. He isn't forced into a role based on his parents and while he might have some comfort with finally having answers about his heritage, he doesn't have to be ruled by it. He can find a place for himself of his own making, and not what others would want him to be. He saved Westeros so many times and his reward isn't being forced to be King, but allowed a quiet life. Long life and happiness King Beyond The Wall.

I kind of dug the small council meeting bickering over things like infrastructure and finances because Yay! Semi-functional government. Maybe baby steps towards a meritocracy. And it looks like Westeros has discovered the Electoral College. 

And yeah... the Unsullied and Dothraki had to go home. The Unsullied would  never be comfortable in Westeros and Grey Worm would always hate the country where his Queen and love died. Better to have a hostile military force go on their not-so merry way. And no one needs a large number of raping, pillaging Dothraki hanging around without Dany to control them. 

I know that this season was a real mixed bag and it was seriously rushed. I would have loved a proper season of ten episodes to really let things play out, but I'm happy to fill in the blanks myself. And for the things that I wasn't happy about... there's always fanfic. 

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It seems unlikely that everyone would be agreeable to 3 Starks on The Seven Six Kingdom's Electoral college, and that they'd be OK with the North being granted independence, but not anyone else.

Looking forward to when Bran die and civil war breaks out to determine who will belong to the next Electoral College, and who will be king or queen.

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1 minute ago, Constantinople said:

It seems unlikely that everyone would be agreeable to 3 Starks on The Seven Six Kingdom's Electoral college, and that they'd be OK with the North being granted independence, but not anyone else.

Looking forward to when Bran die and civil war breaks out to determine who will belong to the next Electoral College, and who will be king or queen.

Yeah, it made no sense that the Starks had any say in who the next King would be when the North was becoming independent.    It would be like Americans voting in British elections.  

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*phew* I'm just glad it's over. And my sincere thanks to the unknown poster who suggested to watch 'Avatar - the last Airbender' as a panacea for all GoT induced frustration and possible rage.

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1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

The funny thing is that (Maester? Lord?)  Tarly was later discussing the benefits of clean drinking water.  Apparently, he'd been working on some things. 

The coffee cup and water bottle are symptoms of how little thought and care the show runners put into producing a final season that made any sense.   

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13 minutes ago, luvenan said:

I half expected John to hop on Drogon's back, because that would've made more sense than what they had play out. 

When Drogon was trying to shake Dany the 2nd or 3rd time it actually looked like he was inviting Jon to climb aboard (which he wasnt) but it looked that way and would have 1,000x more appropriate than what they did. He sits on that dragon Grey Worm et al see him as King and that's that. Having Jon reluctantly becoming King and then final scene of him looking miserable and half-broken at a small council meeting while the others bickered would have been logical...but surely disappointing to anyone searching for a broader meaning to the series ie democracy or whatever.

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Was I the only one wanting to slap Barn's face when he smirked as he said "why do you think I come all the way down here" or "you were where you were supposed to be" ?

So you KNEW hundreds of thousands were going to die just so you could be a king, you little GoT player twerp!!! 👿👿👿

Edited by DarkRaichu
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1 hour ago, Dobian said:

This might have been mentioned already, but did anyone notice how two of the scenes seemed to be directed at fans' complaints about the season?  One was Jon petting Ghost.  The other was Sam's idea of democratically choosing the ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, as in, fans democratically deciding how the show ends.  Which then got shot down with laughter by the council as in, D&D.

Yes! Sam's democracy speech and subsequent laughter reminded me of Dean looking square at the camera in FAN FICTION.

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Athena

No Book Talk. AT ALL.

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