S02.E04: Crucible

[statsgirl]

Oliver discovers a man who goes by the name "The Mayor" is bringing illegal guns in to The Glades, so Oliver sponsors a "Cash for Guns" event to help clean up the city. Unfortunately, The Mayor crashes the event with his gang and seriously injures Sin. The Canary is furious when she learns her friend is in the hospital and sets out for revenge. Meanwhile, Felicity stuns Oliver with a bit of information about the Canary, Donner asks Laurel to dinner, and Diggle reconnects with an old friend.

The Mayor -- another waste of a villain.

On the other hand, Isabel Rochev was nasty enough to make up for it. Not going to win the "Most Congenial Co-Worker Award".

 

Sebastian Bloods speech

Sooner or later, we all go through a crucible. I'm guessing yours was that island. Most believe there are two types of people who go into a crucible. The ones who become stronger from the experience and survive it, and the ones who die. But there's a third type. The ones who learn to love the fire and choose to stay in their crucible because it's easier to embrace the pain when it's all you know anymore.

I loved Quentin this episode. He was so worried about Laurel he was willing to go to Oliver for help.  His crucible was alcohol, Oliver and Sara's was the island, Diggle's was Afghanistan.  Laurel's is the death of Tommy, just as Helena's was the death of her fiance.

 

Oliver finds out the other masked vigilante is Sara 

Arrow: I want to see how you do in a real fight.

Black Canary: Good. I was looking for a fight.

This was a great introduction to Sara -- she was mysterious, she was wounded, and like Oliver she was in pain.  But as I was watching it, I wondered why Oliver took only Sara on the fight to the Mayor and not Diggle, and then I thought was that this was the first misstep with Team Arrow. The writers were so focused on telling Sara's story that that's all that they saw. I think if Diggle had been included more in the fighting scenes, and both he and Felicity in the Arrow cave scenes, I wouldn't have been thinking the show is moving away from what I want and wondering if I will be watching next season. They pulled it together for the season finales but I think putting a microscope on some arcs instead of keeping the bigger picture in view really hurt the show.

 

Sin calling Roy "Abercrombie" never fails to amuse me.

Edited June 19, 2014 by statsgirl

[Actionmage]

Yeah, statsgirl, Cle Bennett is nice-looking gent and yet, just because Sebastian rudely bum rushed the body stage left? Not necessarily dead ( see Wilson, Slade.)

I had two "drinky" Laurel sightings ( at the party at the manse and with ADA Douchetastic), one sighting of Pillpoppin' Laurel, and she was unnecessarily badmouthing her father. Granted, this was supposed to be the "start" of her "crucible", but apparently she forgot that her father was also kidnapped and made to watch her suffer because he was thecop who put the Dollmaker in Iron Heights, not just because she was handy or knew Oliver Queen or was now working for the DA's office. *sigh*

 

Too bad the writers couldn't be honest with us and allude to Sara's second death instead of a replay of the first ( I know, part of the reason was to put Caity in that situation for later.) You could say the second one is close enough to the Gambit's memory, but  Oliver and Sara are in such different headspaces, as we learn over the season. My initial reaction on rewatch was a "that's cheating", but the Arrow Cave scene with Dig and Felicity softened that. Tech Goddess!Felicity's "Do you have any happy stories?" shows up this episode and it's still pretty sad.

 

"...'Secrets have weight. The more you have the harder it is to keep moving.' "--Diggle quoting someone. Such a good line. SO glad John got to say it!

 

Sin and Sara having some honesty and Sin's current(?) parents being indifferent or worse to her? Makes what we know is coming sadder. And Sara yet more cooler than ever.

While I am about not letting bros ice out women in business, Isabelle totally getting ignored as the star-crossed bros Oliver and Sebastian  set up a Cash For Guns deal was super!  What can I say? She was in The Book, she was bad.

 

Was it just me or was The Mayor's club hq just a redressed set from when the real Mayor was assassinated? Not a criticism, just an observation.

 

Felicity was getting shade thrown at her tonight, though not as badly as later in the season. Isabelle at the Queen manse and Laurel at the manse.  Oh! Laurel was all entitled about to the cop just doing his job of serving and protecting the entirety of Star City. ( I hate anyone with a sliver of celebrity who bows up with a 'do you know who I am?!' attitude. Some celebs I enjoy have diminished their standing in my eyes some due to that.)

 

The three-way scene between Quentin, Oliver and unseen Sara? Wonderful! Paul Blackthorne deserves all the trophies and glittery things come award season. It was broughten every episode this season.

 

"Living is not for the weak."- Anatoly (?) Glad he was part of the season too.

 

I made a note at the third break: "Note to CW- Quit overplaying The Flash ads"; some of us will be sick at the sight of puppy eyed Grant Gustin, if not already. (I am not, but it's the only ad they play for the show! Something new would be appreciated.)

 

Thea and Sin's "meet cute" was fun, as was the forming of Teen Arrow (tm some brilliant poster from TWoP!) Those three genuinely have great chemistry and I hope that part of next season has Sin and Roy fighting to get Thea back from Malcolm. They know how bad a man he is, and I'd bet Thea trusts them more than Ollie, not that she's trusting anyone too much.

 

Ah! THE Fight! So good, I could watch it on a loop! The smoothness with the other's weapon and return. The seeming effortlessness. "You can't save the city with forgiveness."-Sara *sigh*

 

The obligatory (? *g*) STAR Labs countdown and news. Lyla's 'Check the single box' convo, and the first Brother Blood mask/mirakuru sighting. Lots of firsts going on, even in the fourth episode of the season! No wonder we all were so primed for...everything. It felt like there was almost too much stuff in every episode, in a good way though.

 

Top to bottom, this was the best of the first handful of episodes. I reserve the right to restate that after next week, but I'm pretty sure it'll stand.

[BkWurm1]

 have a new theory about the IMO stark difference in quality between the early and later episodes.  The scripts are so much tighter, the staging of the scenes so much more meaningful - is it possible that it's just a result of them having more time to write those early episodes over the hiatus? 

 

Top to bottom, this was the best of the first handful of episodes. I reserve the right to restate that after next week, but I'm pretty sure it'll stand.

 

I don't think you'll have to recant your statement.  It's a great episode, packed with emotion and action.  Pretty light on the flashbacks too.  Only the important stuff was shown, nothing on the Amazo seemed like filler. 

 

The three-way scene between Quentin, Oliver and unseen Sara? Wonderful!

 

Incredibly done.  Without a word, we watch the emotion run over Sara's face.  Longing, regret, loss, hope warring with despair.  No wonder I learned to love Sara so fast.  I already was forming a soft spot when we were being told why Sara was letting her family think she was dead but then then we got to see how much her choice was costing her. 

 

Thea and Sin's "meet cute" was fun

 

I liked that it wasn't all BFF's at first site but that Thea didn't hold any kind of a grudge nor did she display a whit of jealousy. 

 

Just noticed that the Doctor who worked on Sin

was the same one that helped out at the end of the series.

 

Back to Quentin. Toward the end when he was talking to his AA group about Laurel, it just about broke my heart to watch him.  Talk about selling it.

 

And while we are on the subject of selling it, no, Quentin being completely authentic and afraid and worried does not compensate for how badly everything else about Laurel's "problem" was sold.  Even knowing the DUI was coming I was still confused as to why the officer puller her over.  Nothing about Laurel hinted at being drunk.  She didn't stumble as she left the table, she didn't blurt out something she wouldn't normally say.  She was driving in a straight line at a sedate speed.  Again, why did she get pulled over?  I kept waiting for a line about a broken tail light or them doing random checks. She must have smelled like a vineyard cause I got nothing as to why else the cop would have brought up drinking. 

 

What Laurel did manage to sell me on is that she is a mean, hurtful woman.  She treated her dad and then Oliver horridly.  I was with her when she was talking about the irony of her dad and Oliver trying to set her on the straight and narrow but her response (which was probably supposed to be defensive) came back as cruel and uncaring.  I couldn't help  think that the speech Blood gave about going through crucible's applied to Laurel. 

The ones who learn to love the fire and choose to stay in their crucible because it's easier to embrace the pain when it's all you know anymore.

 

I know this was supposed to be directly about Sara but Laurel seems to embrace all the negatively in her life and just revel in it.  To dip back into it again and again so she has the excuse to be this calculating and self obsessed person.  Her name drop to the cop was awful and made more awful that when who she was DID get her some special treatment she was completely ungrateful.  It would have been so simple to thank her father for his concern and then reassure him it was all a simple mistake, but no, she huffs off and expects daddy to clean up after her. 

 

Laurel is just so damn unlikable! 

 

Set that next to Sara who's heartbroken to be so close to her family who she loves thinking she can't ever go back..  And the line about no woman should have to suffer at the hands of men - yeah, Sara and the show glossed over a lot of horrible things that makes any "cruicible" Laurel is going to go through look like a wine tasting in Napa Valley. 

 

So frustrating!! They had to know what they were writing.  How could they not see how awful Laurel looks next to Sara.  One episode and I was wholly invested in Sara vs more than two dozen episodes with Laurel, each one making me like her less and less. 

 

I do see signs of Oliver having strong feelings, possibly romantic like feelings for Sara in this episode.  He was sure if the Lances found out that he lied about how Sara died that none of them would talk to him again but if it brought Sara back home and gave her family back, never talking to Laurel again didn't matter at all. 

[tv echo]

I also watched the rerun of this episode last night and was reminded again of how unlikeable Laurel was in it.  After each Laurel scene, my immediate reaction was "what a bitch".  She was disdainful to the poor traffic cop, her father, Oliver, Donner, and Felicity. The first time I saw this episode, I gave Laurel the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe that's her defense mechanism to hide her drinking and pill-popping.  But she acted the same disdainful way later in the season after she sobered up.  Three things especially struck me:

 

1.  When she's pulled over by the cop, her immediate reaction is to identify herself as an ADA as a way to try to intimidate the cop to let her go. This is not the way a warm and compassionate lawyer who grew up a cop's daughter would act, even drunk (and honestly, I couldn't tell she was drunk).  This is the way a spoiled rich celebrity would act.

 

2.  When her father confronts her about her drinking and Laurel lashes back with how she remembers dragging him drunk out of bars and having him drunkenly passed out in her car, I felt her memory was less about concern with her father's well-being and more about anger at how it inconvenienced her (and her car) at the time.

 

3.  When she talks about how she's had a rough time lately because she was kidnapped and almost murdered and her "boyfriend died", I was taken aback.  When Tommy died, he was no longer her boyfriend and Laurel had just had sex with Oliver.  Still referring to Tommy as her boyfriend seemed to be a manipulative ploy for greater sympathy from her father.  It's a greater loss to lose your boyfriend, rather than your ex-boyfriend or just a friend, assuming you haven't slept with another guy in the meantime.  Also, others have been kidnapped and almost murdered (Felicity, Thea) and they didn't start drinking and pill-popping afterwards.  Sara went through even worse and emerged stronger.  So I guess what the show is saying is that Laurel is weaker than all of them.

Edited June 19, 2014 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

So I guess what the show is saying is that Laurel is weaker than all of them.

That's the impression I got from Laurel this season. She's weak and in no way super hero material. Almost everyone on this show got kidnapped at one point or another and didn't have to turn to alcohol and drugs to get through it. Wasn't Walter kidnapped for a good couple of months? And Sara's pretty much been a prisoner since the Gambit sank. 

 

That's why I don't get them showing us Sara (along with everyone else) and expect us to like Laurel. 

[twoods]

Just got into this show this summer (haven't watched season 1 yet) but wow, is Laurel annoying. I hope she gets better as the season goes on. I liked Sarah but the actress kept pursing her lips for everything and I couldn't concentrate on her scenes. Those flashbacks are so dark and creepy- poor Oliver.

Was taken aback by Sebastian being a bad guy at the end. This show is really good!

[icandigit]

"You can have him back in second." I love you Felicity. Was she there to save us from another Laurel/Oliver scene?

 

I thought everyone was so good in the 'these were five years where nothing good happened scenes. Man, those three.

 

Love how Lyla just gets the information Dig request no questions asked. And then after giving it over ask why he wants it.Just shows the trust and bond between them. Nice

 

Sweet parkour move at not City Hall.

 

Loved the convo with Sara an Oliver. They both don't answer each others questions. I love their dynamic, I hope we get more interaction with them throughout the series.

 

Roy/Thea/Sin.I adore this part of the show.I need more Sin in my life.

 

The Arrow just shot an arrow at an effin mortar round or something.I heart The Arrow..Old skool weapon respect.

 

One of my fav scenes of the season is the fight scene with canary/arrow when they end up with each others weapons. I wish I could use a bowstaff in real life. I could watch them in the field all day.

 

The Arrow's 'Really' head tilt when dude kept yammering was priceless.

 

Some stuff happened with Laurel too or something.

[MsSchadenfreude]

Loved the scene between Team Arrow when Oliver was telling them about Sara.  "Five years when nothing good happened!" :(

 

Sin is awesome.  "You know you're dating a moron!"

 

The weapons switch will never not be fantastic to watch.  The Mayor may have actually gotten out alive but he just had to mouth off to Sara.  Even Oliver was shaking his hand at what an idiot he was for talking trash.

 

I absolutely hate when people play the "do you know who I am" card when they get into trouble, so Laurel made me want to punch her in her smug little face this whole episode.  

 

Poor Quentin!  He feels like he lost/is losing both of his daughters.

[Sakura12]

A good caring selfless person would never pull the "Do you know who I am?" bit. That's the reason they should just let Laurel be an entitled selfish bitch. I do tend to like those characters more but only if own it by letting other characters say something about it as well and not try to tell me she's really a sweet caring person. 

[Wayward Son]

Another good episode! 

 

• So my second guest that the Black Canary would be Sara was correct! Personally, I’m not a big fan of yet another “character died on the Queen’s Gambit, oh wait no they didn’t” but the actress who plays Sara seems strong enough to make it a little more tolerable. The plot worked with Oliver, but to do it again is bleh. 

 

• I really enjoyed the Sin-Thea-Roy dynamic. It was refreshing to see a certain wariness between the two without it becoming a major jealously thing. 

 

• Quentin’s speech at the AA meeting was extremely moving. The actors best work so far IMO. 

 

• I generally like Laurel more than most on here (or at least those who’ve replied to the episode threads anyway), but even I have to admit she was pretty unlikeable this episodeZ 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

5 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

but the actress who plays Sara seems strong enough to make it a little more tolerable

The actress is Caity Lotz.

5 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

The actors best work so far IMO. 

That actor is named Paul Blackthorne. He's probably the best actor in the cast along with Susannah Thompson. IMO

[tv echo]

204 (Crucible) – Oliver Queen’s voiceover intro:
Oliver (voiceover): "My name is Oliver Queen. After five years on a hellish island, I have come home with only one goal-- to save my city. But to do so, I can't be the killer I once was. To honor my friend's memory, I must be someone else. I must be something else."

204 (Crucible) – Oliver is late to a party that he forgot about (until Diggle reminds him) and Felicity must make excuses for him; they learn about a new gang lord calling himself the “Mayor”:
Felicity: "Mr. Queen's going to be late. He's extremely sorry. It couldn't be helped." 
Isabel: "Where is he?"
Felicity: "Um -"
(Cut to Oliver fighting gangbangers.)
Felicity: "Just got a little held up. You know, tying up some loose ends. I'm actually in direct contact with him now. Let me, let me check."
(Cut to Oliver interrogating gangbanger.)
*  *  *
Felicity: "He's here."
Oliver: "Sorry I'm late."
Isabel: "This party is to attract investors for your failing company. Being fashionably late might do well for the club circuit, but it does not inspire confidence in Wall Street. Is that blood on your face?"
Oliver: "Hmm?"
Felicity: "Don't worry, it's not his blood. I mean, of course it's his blood. Why would he have somebody else's blood on his face? Who taught you to shave, mister? (Wipes blood off Oliver's face, and they walk away from Isabel) What kept you? Was it our masked blonde that carries that giant staff to beat the sauce out of attackers?"
Oliver: "This time it was guns." 
Felicity: "Guns?"
(Sebastian Blood and Laurel walk up.)
Sebastian: "We were just talking about guns."
Laurel: "Hey. Oliver."
Oliver: "Hi."
Sebastian: "What's your interest in guns, Mr. Queen?"
Oliver: "Never touched them myself. 
Sebastian: “The gun epidemic in the Glades has gotten increasingly out of control."
Laurel: "Which is why the DA's office has committed to ending gun violence." 
Oliver: "Well, I'm sure the police are doing whatever they can to catch whoever's bringing the weapons into the city. (Sebastian looks at him) Did I say something funny?"
Laurel: "They know who's been arming the gangs, Oliver. The Mayor."
Oliver: "The - I thought the Hood copycats killed the Mayor." 
Sebastian: "Well, not the actual Mayor. A local gang lord calls himself the Mayor. Thinks he's the man to save our city."
Laurel: "But that position has already been filled, hasn't it?" 
Sebastian: "Now this Mayor has only one goal-- to create chaos so he can rule the Glades with the barrel of a gun."

204 (Crucible) – Felicity interrupts a conversation between Oliver and Laurel when she realizes something significant about the mysterious masked woman in black:
Felicity: "Excuse me, Oliver, may I talk to you for a second? It's urgent."
Oliver: "Yeah."
Felicity (to Laurel): "You can have him back in a minute."
Oliver (to Laurel): "Excuse us."
(Laurel walks away) 
Felicity: "I just realized something. What if our masked friend that keeps showing up everywhere you go, you know her?"
Oliver: "What about her?"
Felicity: "What if we've been going about this the wrong way? We thought she was obsessed with you. I mean, she showed up in the D.A.'s office when you were there.  And in the chemical plant where the Dollmaker was holed up. But who else was at both those places? What if our masked friend isn't following you?"
Oliver: "She's following Laurel."

204 (Crucible) – Oliver tells Felicity and Diggle about Sara Lance being alive and the mysterious masked woman:
Felicity: "Sara Lance? Laurel's sister? The detective's other daughter, the one that you took on the Gambit with you even though you were dating Laurel at the time, which we never talked about -"
Diggle: "Felicity, please." 
Felicity: "I'm sorry, it's just - Isn't she, isn't she dead? You told everyone that she died when The Gambit went down, that she drowned."
Diggle: "You lied."
Oliver: "When The Gambit capsized, uh... Sara was pulled under. It was so dark. And cold. And I thought she drowned... About a year later, I saw her."
Diggle: "You saw her where? On the island? She drifted to the island, too?"
Oliver: "Not exactly." 
Felicity: "Why didn't you tell the Lances that she didn't die in that boat? Laurel and Mr. Lance, they blame you." 
Oliver: "It was my fault. What happened was my fault." 
Diggle: "Well, where has she been all these years, Oliver?"
Oliver: "I don't know! Diggle, I swear to God. I was sure she was dead."
Felicity (sighs): "Do you have any happy stories?"
Diggle: "All right, so just to make sure I understand this correctly, after not drowning when the Gambit went down, Sara didn't exactly make it to the island with you, where you would see her die yet again. Feel free to fill in the blanks." 
Oliver: "Not right now."
Diggle: "You mean not ever, don't you, Oliver?"
Felicity: "Don't you think her family had a right to know that she made it to the island, too?"
Oliver: "These were five years! Five years! Where nothing good happened. And they were better off not knowing." 
Diggle: "Do they deserve to know now?"
Oliver: "I need to take care of some business at the office. Where are we with the Mayor?"
Diggle: "I'm in contact with some of my military sources. Trying to get a line on how he's getting his illegal army weaponry. I'll keep you updated... You know, Oliver, somebody once told me that secrets have weight. The more you keep, the harder it is to keep moving."
Oliver: "You see how hard I work out."

204 (Crucible) – Original Team Arrow tracks the location of the Mayor:
Oliver: "I need some good news."
Diggle: "The bad news first. Somehow the Mayor did get his hands on a crate of military-grade weapons from Camp Kirby."
Oliver: "The good news?" 
Felicity: "If he kept the crate, might be able to find where he's hiding. This is the same make and model of a tracking system the army installs on all of its weapons crates. If they lose a crate, they send out a remote signal that activates the beacon."
Diggle: "The Mayor's clever. He deactivated his beacon. Send a signal, nothing comes back."
Oliver: "You both need to work on your definition of good news."
Felicity: "Okay. How's this - guess which company designed the tracking system the army uses? I'll give you a hint - their CEO? Always late." 
Oliver: "Nice."
Felicity: "I pulled up the original plans from the QC mainframe. Turns out there's a design flaw. The beacon is still susceptible to a sub form wave even if it's been deactivated." 
Diggle: "The Mayor turned it off, Oliver. We can turn it back on." 
Felicity: "I believe you ordered the crate of stolen military weapons, Mr. Queen."

204 (Crucible) – Felicity ‘borrows’ the FBI’s facial recognition software:
Diggle: "The coward finally decided to show his face."
Oliver: "Vanity is going to cost him."
Felicity: "I 'borrowed' (makes quote marks with her fingers) the FBI's facial recognition software. Got a match. Xavier Reed."
Oliver: "Did Mr. Reed serve in the military?" 
Felicity: "No military history." 
Oliver: "Family members?" 
Felicity: "Reed was in and out of foster care his whole life. Wait, hold on. In 1996, Reed spent three years with a foster family and their son, Ezra Barnes. He served three tours in Iraq. He's stateside now."
Diggle: "20 bucks says he was stationed at Camp Kirby." 
Felicity: "Pay the man. The Mayor's foster brother is assigned to a weapons convoy that carries SCAR 16s by truck. The convoy's scheduled to come through Starling City tonight."
Diggle: "FN SCAR 16s are military assault weapons with grenade launchers. The man gets a hold of these, Oliver, it's game over."
Oliver: "He won't."

204 (Crucible) - DELETED SCENE: Fellow ADA Adam Donner wants a date with Laurel: 
Adam: "Hey."
Laurel: "Hi."
Adam: "You left in a hurry the other night. I really hope I wasn't out of line."
Laurel: "No, you weren't, Adam. I'm just... I'm not in a good place to think about dating... anyone."
Adam: "I get it. It's probably for the best anyway. We'll be spending so much time together on the Queen case."
Laurel: "What?"
Adam: "The order just came down. You and I will be prosecuting Moira Queen."

Edited February 11, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

204 (Crucible) - DELETED SCENE: Fellow ADA Adam Donner wants a date with Laurel: 

(Hermandat)

Edited April 27, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Another 204 deleted scene...

Arrow 2x04 Deleted Scene - "It's my family's company"

(Hermandat)