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Whimsy

S38.E13: Idol or Bust

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1 hour ago, violet and green said:

No, he didn't! Chris wasn't trying to get out Kelley - Chris was accidentally foiling David and Devens' plan to vote out Kelley, by insisting on telling ole Warthog that they were considering voting out Kelley (only he stupidly said he was thinking of it), causing Warty to turn and get Chris voted out instead. They told him not to bring the Warthog into it, but Chris felt his loyalty lay with Warty. I think Devens and David sensibly stayed schtum at that point, after Warthog raced off to tell Kelly what a dastard Chris was for wanting to target her next vote, re it actually being their idea, to save their skin.

At that moment they could have voted out Kelly even with Dan not wanting to. David, Rick, Wendy and Chris would have been enough to vote out Kelly. But Rick and David decided to go with Dan and vote out Chris.

All Rick and David had to do was tell Chris that Dan was tossing out his name and Chris would have voted with them.

So yeah, it was a choice that Rick and David made. They took the easy path. It was also the stupid path, they voted out one of the people on their tribe that didn't suck at challenges.

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Note to Keith and Wendy: Will 16 of the other 18 players all still in the game going into the season finale, you are both officially quitters.  

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2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I would agree... IF he had been this way from the beginning.  But earlier in the game when he was out of the loop and getting blindsided, he was far from playful.  He’s only “having the time of [his] life” and acting like a little kid solely because he’s finding idols and feeling invincible.  

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he wins, but I’m really hoping that any of the others and pretty much anyone from EoE except for Warthog and Reem would win over this arrogant ass.   

He is still out of the loop. He is just out of the loop with idols and advantages from EoE and hidden idols. He won individual immunity on his own, no qualms with that.

He had no clue who the others were going to vote for. He can think that he changed the vote all he wanted, but Lauren had already convinced Gavin and Victoria to vote for Aurora. She was a bigger challenge threat and could make a case to the jury that Julie can't.

In the beginning he voted the way David wanted him to vote. And it cost him. Now he is not included in an conversations and has no clue who is being voted for. If he had the slightest clue that Aurora was going home, he wouldn't have revealed the hidden idol.

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15 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

At Tribal Council, I'm wondering if the remaining players could've done an even better job of selling Devin's greatness to the jury.  Maybe they could've painted "Vote for Devins!" on their foreheads or something?  I found it ridiculous how Aurora, Gavin and Victoria all proclaimed quite loudly to the jury how fantastic Devins was playing the game, how hard he was working, how impossible it's been to get him out, etc.  Meanwhile, the jury is staring at Devins, gobsmacked with love and astonishment.  Congrats, Rick.  Here's your check.

How about it? I was chuckling to myself, think they have no clue they’re actually building Devens up. If he makes it to the F3, his work is done. 

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Apologies in advance if someone already said this, I might have missed it.

But....what is the point of this 'edge of extinction'?? 30+ days of sitting on a beach with little or nothing to do; no competition, no strategizing, no alliances, no tribal councils, idols, nothing of anything to do with the game-play of Survivor.

So, at this point does anyone even get a chance to return? If so, who's going to vote for someone to win who's been sitting on a beach for the better part of the real game?

Not to mention the people on the jury got screwed out of at least a decent time at the Ponderosa 😕

The point? Have I missed it? If I did, I still think this is the lamest 'twist' ever and wish they'd just go back to playing the game. 

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2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Rick is doing what he needs to do but I have difficulty with people who decide that their entire play is to fuck with other peoples minds. I mean, I get it, but the whole hide and seek was silly and unnecessary. And it consumes energy. Rick knows that the others want him out so he needs to look for the idol. I get that. The entire after bullshit is just that. He is out running around and being an ass. All that does is piss off people who he is going to vote out who are going to be voting for the winner.

Not only that, but the fact that he was doing it at all should have clued in the others to the fact that he probably already had the idol.  Devins clearly knew that everyone wanted him out.  Why would he hide behind tree and play peek-a-boo rather than try to evade everyone else and do some serious searching?  Because he already had the idol and wanted to wear everyone else down. 

1 hour ago, Special K said:

I wonder how many times they had to shoot the reaction shot to opening the box at EOE and seeing just those lame, empowerment-style self-letters? 

My first thought was that they were getting letters from home.  THAT would've been encouraging!  Julia bursting into tears at the thought of reading something she wrote a month ago made me LOL.  Some of the players couldn't even manufacture tears at all.  So lame.

Edited by laurakaye
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From Reality Blurred:  "Except: He didn’t play the idol. Of course, he didn’t! He’s the person everyone wants to vote out, and he needs it in case Jeff Probst doesn’t FedEx him another handful of idols and advantages next week."

Entire article here: https://1clickurls.com/qdt39js

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3 minutes ago, illini1959 said:

Apologies in advance if someone already said this, I might have missed it.

But....what is the point of this 'edge of extinction'?? 30+ days of sitting on a beach with little or nothing to do; no competition, no strategizing, no alliances, no tribal councils, idols, nothing of anything to do with the game-play of Survivor.

So, at this point does anyone even get a chance to return? If so, who's going to vote for someone to win who's been sitting on a beach for the better part of the real game?

Not to mention the people on the jury got screwed out of at least a decent time at the Ponderosa 😕

The point? Have I missed it? If I did, I still think this is the lamest 'twist' ever and wish they'd just go back to playing the game. 

I think the idea was for it to be a test of the players' will to win, and mental and physical endurance.  They probably assumed a lot of people would raise the sail, so hanging in until the end would mean something.   

But, either the players are a lot tougher than they expected or EOE was not nearly brutal enough.  Only one weakling and one flake quit, and it was right after the first get back in the game challenge, so they weren't really worn down as much they were just quitters.  

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9 hours ago, txvoodoo said:

Yup. You're not being arrogant if you're actually achieving things. 

Yes you can be still arrogant and he is. So sick of this Rick Show. For others commenting about it The Jury is making it obvious they are rooting for Production Pet that's why Gavin and Victoria pointing it out. Just fast forward to Ben 2.0 winning already. Also Hilarious is people making excuses and being Ok with Producer Pet being Handled Idols but were Screaming unfair with Ben

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2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

It reminded me of Stuart Smalley,  "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me!"

No clue at all what the point of that whole segment was supposed to be.  Some of these people, like Julia, we haven't heard a peep from since they got banished to the edge.  Now we are supposed to marvel at their growth and self-reflection living on the Edge with nothing?  Pfffftttt.  The time would have been better spent watching them deliberate as to who is playing the best game.  Or finding food.  What exactly are they eating?  Or making that 2 mile hike for a single canteen of water.

I do agree with the comment upthread that the cinematography of Chris sitting on that huge rock in the middle of the water, with the overhead wide view, was marvelous.  

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Rick is doing what he needs to do but I have difficulty with people who decide that their entire play is to fuck with other peoples minds. I mean, I get it, but the whole hide and seek was silly and unnecessary. And it consumes energy. Rick knows that the others want him out so he needs to look for the idol. I get that. The entire after bullshit is just that. He is out running around and being an ass. All that does is piss off people who he is going to vote out who are going to be voting for the winner.

He was an ass on Manu. He was in the majority alliance and happy to play that role until he was in the minority and then decided to be pissy that he was on the bottom. Especially when he had a number of occasions to change that fate by working with Chris and David to get out Kelly. Instead he choose to work with Dan and Kelly.

Then he is voted out and throws a temper tantrum when he gets back into the game. What the hell? You know that there is a group of three, that you actively kept intact, and you are pissed at that group of three for doing exactly what a group of three does?

And now he is suppose to be the scrappy underdog? Who gets idols and advantages from people who should have been voted out of the game but are still in the game? And has essentially adopted Wendy's game of being erratic and annoying because he is on the bottom so why not?

Except that Wendy annoyed people but Rick is just enjoying the game from an under dog position.

Sure

Rick is playing to the jury and they seem to be eating it up. But the reality is that he has had little to do with what has been happening. The Ron and Aurora votes were back up plans from Lauren, Gavin, and Victoria. They had nothing to do with Rick.

And I normally don't buy into conspiracy theories with the idols but the way Russell, Mike, Ben and Rick seem to find them is just hard to fathom. Why the hell is Rick allowed out on his own? Why the hell do the others suck at following Rick, even when being obvious about it.

I don't buy Rick as an underdog. He is a mediocre player who was on an awful tribe that made terrible decisions about who to vote out and cut their own throat. He got lucky to be on a season that is allowing players back in. He remains a mediocre player in an awful season filled with crap players. Kama feel apart as soon as they had to go to tribal. Julie is erratic as all hell and gone. Wendy might have been erratic at camp but you knew how she was going to vote and why. Julie and Rick have not been in on a vote for how long?

Gavin and Victoria seem to be playing a decent game but I have no real idea because it's ALL RICK ALL THE TIME AND ISN"T HE SCRAPPY!!! Lauren remains pretty much useless. The only thing that she has done well is to not tell anyone about her idol. But she is such a non-threat that she hasn't even thought about having to use it.

Awful season.  Awful concept. Awful players.

And now, to top it off, we have a finale that is going to cram a return of a player, two people voted out, a fire making challenge, and final tribal.

ugh

I cannot agree with this post any more and wish I could give it 100 likes.  Somewhere along the way, Rick morphed from being an angry, petulant and bitter ass into the Producers' Pet "loveable scrappy underdog" who is working hard and keeping himself in the game.  It's disgusting.  The only thing keeping me tuning in at this point is the hope that there is another chance for someone to come back from EoE and that it is someone good.

Rick running around the jungle and hiding from people and "having the time of [his] life" and "feeling like a little kid"... well, good for him.  But the only purpose of this is to make the others feel foolish.  He could have "found" the producer-assisted idol, gone back to camp, and then sad sacked his way through the rest of the time until the immunity challenge.  Then he could have just bided his time and pulled out the idol at tribal.  

Instead, he purposely wanted to mess with people's heads and waste their energy.  What an ass.  Reminder, this is the same guy who got on his high horse last tribal to ream out Ron and Julie for purposely trying to make him look like an ass by giving him an expired advantage.  He was all pissed off that people were trying to make him look like an ass on national TV, and then but one or two days later, is doing pretty much the exact same thing to the others.  He wanted them to look foolish.

10 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Yes you can be still arrogant and he is. So sick of this Rick Show. For others commenting about it The Jury is making it obvious they are rooting for Production Pet that's why Gavin and Victoria pointing it out. Just fast forward to Ben 2.0 winning already. Also Hilarious is people making excuses and being Ok with Producer Pet being Handled Idols but were Screaming unfair with Ben

I'm so tired of him.  I hated the Ben Show and I am finding the Rick Show even more intolerable.  Ben was intolerable but Rick's hubris and arrogance is even worse than Ben.

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Thank god this season is almost over. I just never got on board with the never ending twist but continued watching (as usual) hoping something would happen. I guess the only good thing is I have no earthly idea who is going to win. Let alone who makes the Final 3. I guess that will make my Finale night a little more interesting. I am looking forward to hearing/reading some of the exit interviews to get a better perspective on the game itself. Because a lot of it had me confused.

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I think the other thing that has sucked about this season is the lack of interviews and Ponderosa videos. Maybe instead of Ponderosa they could have had an EoE series so we had a clue what they were doing out there but that still would have sucked. Because they did nothing out there.

I think I would have said screw it and gone to Ponderosa. The chances of winning my way back in would have been slim and the chances of winning after being voted out should be slim. So what do I get other then being miserable with a bunch of other people who are miserable? Give me the beer and pizza and a nice bed.

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It is gonna be hard as hell to sit through 3 straight hours of the Rick show next week. It's been hard enough watching an hour of it once a week!

This was the third time they've shown Victoria being told a plan, disagreeing with it, and then ultimately doing it anyway. I wish she was more active like she was in the beginning. I think in this ep's TC you could pinpoint the exact moment she realized she has no chance of winning. It was kind of hilarious. I think she's given up tbh. It must be frustrating to watch someone who is playing a shitty game (so shitty actually that they've already been voted out), just win IC after IC and find idol after idol and know that you will ultimately lose to that person even though you managed to play a decent to good game all along.

Lauren's eye rolls in this ep, damn. Kelley taught her well!

It's frustrating to watch Lauren and Victoria voice that they need to keep on Rick and make sure he doesn't find the idol and then just do nothing. I have to choose to believe they actually looked for it themselves and we just didn't get to see it since the editors are up Rick's asshole.

If Rick's in the F3 then he is 100% winning, but I just hope that whomever of Gavin/Victoria/Lauren is there with him make it clear to the jury that Rick did nothing in the game and that they were actually the ones playing it. It won't make any difference, but it will make me feel better lol. I don't want them to just sit there and let Rick and his showboating ways take all the credit.

What I really hope happens is that Rick is either voted out at F5 or loses the fire-making challenge and therefore isn't even in the F3 just so that the winner isn't telegraphed before FTC even begins. But barring that, I hope the last EoE returnee makes F3 with Rick and then beats him just because that'd be funny.

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41 minutes ago, threebluestars said:

When do they start sending these assholes home?!

Never.  We are stuck in an endless loop.

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What a terrible season in all respects.  Not only is the hook ridiculous- if someone from exile island wins, that could end the show for good- but the editing is the worst in ages.  Every bootee gets a reflective monologue at the beginning of ther ultimate episode.  it was obvious from the start that Aurora was going home (and confirmed when rick found the idol).  I found her to be the only truly interesting character this season- and looked quite radiant at the tribal council.  Her physical strength, focus, and openness were mature, as opposed to the usual immature rantings of most of these loser survivor "die-hards" (get a life, you pathetic specimens). 

On that note, aubrey's paean to her "uniqueness" just highlights her delusion.  No, dear, there is nothing unique about you- you are as banal and quotidian as you fear.  You're also not as smart and eloquent as you think you are.  You're a loser.

It should not surprise that these yahoos fell for the classic prisoner's dilemma.  Aurora was the only one worldly enough to understand how to act.  I really felt for her when she was upset over the reward and said, it's okay; i'm just really hungry.  And I thought that, given her background, she's probably dealt with deprivation a great deal. 

I'll watch the final episode in the hope that reem pulls out the win!  That's the most just ending to this waste of time. 

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14 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I’m thinking the reason they had EOE this season was to save money. Stick the losers on an island and save money on all the perks they would have gotten at Ponderosa.  

I'd bet good money the intention was to hand Joe the honorary Boston Rob million dollar charity prize.  Since it would be unjust and a serious blow to the credibility of this show if one of the exiled wins, I expect the next time we see Joe (and we will), he'll be surrounded by a bunch of mouth-breathing morons like they did for boston rob. 

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Challenges are so boring now. They're all mostly a combination of obstacle course - do a fussy thing with this ball - solve a puzzle. Though I did burst out laughing when Julie screamed "OH MY GOD" as she tripped over the ropes for the millionth time.

Aurora's TC outfit was pure Rhoda Morgenstern. Other than that, I'm glad she's gone. I know she's had a hard time in this game probably because she's not good at interacting with the other humans, but I find her so unpleasant. She clearly thinks she's smarter than everyone else, with her comments last week about how Rick can't do math followed by her giving away her advantage and demonstrating that she can't do math and then her parting shot this week about how everyone fell for Rick's "reverse psychology," which is not what that was. If he had said he was voting for Julie in an effort to get everyone else not to vote for Julie, that would have been reverse psychology. What he did was a pure bluff, which may or may not have worked depending on whether or not Gavin, Victoria, and Lauren had already decided to vote for Aurora.

I agree that this is The Rick Show, but I don't blame the producers; I blame the other players. They're obsessing about Rick and talking about Rick and how they have to vote Rick out because Rick is playing the best game and oh noooo Rick keeps winning immunity why can't we vote Rick out and then they go to TC and say all that in front of the jury. Of course that's what every episode is going to focus on; that's literally the only thing that's happening. This is a little like Ben in HHH, but I think it's more like Mike in Worlds Apart. It's one person who's on the outs and knows he's on the outs because everyone else makes that clear to him at every opportunity, so he works like hell to win immunity and find HIIs, and he does try to get people to work with him even though he's mostly unsuccessful at that. Meanwhile, everyone else sits around camp saying, "we need to vote Rick out [removes thumb from butt, inspects it, puts thumb back in butt]. I hope he doesn't win immunity." Not one of the people remaining, aside from Julie, has tried to make him feel comfortable so he'll biff a challenge or be less diligent about hunting for idols. Even Ron was smart enough to do that with his lie about the expired advantage menu. Those remaining are evidently not. Instead they'll just continue to mope about how unfair it is that Rick is playing better than they are. The only difference to me between Victoria/Gavin/Lauren and Rodney/Will/Carolyn is that at least V, G, and L are being decent to Rick around camp and being relatively good sports when he wins a challenge. But in terms of gameplay, they're just as bad.

Edited by fishcakes
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2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Rick running around the jungle and hiding from people and "having the time of [his] life" and "feeling like a little kid"... well, good for him.  But the only purpose of this is to make the others feel foolish.  He could have "found" the producer-assisted idol, gone back to camp, and then sad sacked his way through the rest of the time until the immunity challenge.  Then he could have just bided his time and pulled out the idol at tribal.  

No.  It's a power play.  They decided to tail him to prevent him from finding an idol- their attempt to exert power over him.  So, he countered their dominance attempt by doing the same to them.  His only other option was to allow them to control him through their aggressive conduct.  Who wouldn't do the same? 

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17 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

No.  It's a power play.  They decided to tail him to prevent him from finding an idol- their attempt to exert power over him.  So, he countered their dominance attempt by doing the same to them.  His only other option was to allow them to control him through their aggressive conduct.  Who wouldn't do the same? 

Him finding the idol so early made the rest of the show sooooo boring. The editors could have at least hidden until Tribal Council. There was no suspense.

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12 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

Him finding the idol so early made the rest of the show sooooo boring. The editors could have at least hidden until Tribal Council. There was no suspense.

I think Rick winning the IC is what really removed all the suspense.  

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19 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

No.  It's a power play.  They decided to tail him to prevent him from finding an idol- their attempt to exert power over him.  So, he countered their dominance attempt by doing the same to them.  His only other option was to allow them to control him through their aggressive conduct.  Who wouldn't do the same? 

They couldn't exert control because he had the idol already. They didn't know that when they started tailing him but he did. If he was out there trying to shake them so he could find the idol, then fine. But going out there just to fuck with them after he had the idol is kind of dickish. Fair enough on his part but not the best optic for me.

And the fact that four people cannot keep track of him when they are trying to is flat out ridiculous.

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25 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

No.  It's a power play.  They decided to tail him to prevent him from finding an idol- their attempt to exert power over him.  So, he countered their dominance attempt by doing the same to them.  His only other option was to allow them to control him through their aggressive conduct.  Who wouldn't do the same? 

He had already found the idol so there was absolutely no reason to resort to all of the wacky hijinks just to put on a good show for the camera.  He clearly enjoyed himself, as he was gloating about it in his confessional.  He just wanted to make himself look awesome, and all the others look stupid.  So hypocritical considering how angry he got when Ron tried a similar thing on him.

A better play for him, and one that doesn't make him look as arrogant as he looks now, is for him to have just pretended to have given up.  He wouldn't have been controlled, he would have just not looked.  Or how about allow them to tail him?  He could have made some ostensibly failed attempts to look for an idol.  The others go on thinking he doesn't have an idol.

He won immunity, so he didn't need to use his idol, but it would be much more effective to just pull out a surprise idol after they were sure he couldn't have found one because they were with him the whole time.

I've never been a big fan of the super aggressive "I have an idol" pre-vote play.  I get why people do it, I think it just smacks of assholishness.  I can't remember all the people who have done this, but I seem to think that Tony Vlachos was one.

So now Rick still has an idol, and they all know about it.  There's zero chance he gets voted out next round.  Seems like his ticket to F3 is all but guaranteed.  Sigh.

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1 minute ago, blackwing said:

He had already found the idol so there was absolutely no reason to resort to all of the wacky hijinks just to put on a good show for the camera.  He clearly enjoyed himself, as he was gloating about it in his confessional.  He just wanted to make himself look awesome, and all the others look stupid.  So hypocritical considering how angry he got when Ron tried a similar thing on him.

A better play for him, and one that doesn't make him look as arrogant as he looks now, is for him to have just pretended to have given up.  He wouldn't have been controlled, he would have just not looked.  Or how about allow them to tail him?  He could have made some ostensibly failed attempts to look for an idol.  The others go on thinking he doesn't have an idol.

He won immunity, so he didn't need to use his idol, but it would be much more effective to just pull out a surprise idol after they were sure he couldn't have found one because they were with him the whole time.

I've never been a big fan of the super aggressive "I have an idol" pre-vote play.  I get why people do it, I think it just smacks of assholishness.  I can't remember all the people who have done this, but I seem to think that Tony Vlachos was one.

So now Rick still has an idol, and they all know about it.  There's zero chance he gets voted out next round.  Seems like his ticket to F3 is all but guaranteed.  Sigh.

It made sense for Rick to pretend to keep looking for the idol, so they wouldn't know he already found it.  I think the extra hijinx was just for fun.  It could get pretty boring pretending to look under every rock and in every tree for an idol you already have. 

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I wouldn't mind a Deven's win.  Other than his pouting early on, I think he's playing the best game he can--decent immunity wins, relentless idol searching, and having the time of his life.  I think he's given up on any sort of social game, except to try and keep it light at camp, because it is of no use with Aurora, Victoria, Gavin, and Laurent.  He's keeping Julie in his stable as his meat shield. 

At this point, I'd prefer a Victoria win, she's played a cagey game.  If the person who comes back from Exile next week has any strength left after all that deprivation, then I believe that is the person who will win--they are the one who will have the best history and pull with the jury.  Except for Reem.  Unless something radically changed out on Exile, and Reem is being a sweet supportive tribemate that isn't being shown on TV, I don't think even this Exile island jury would vote for her to win.  Or maybe they would, out of spite.

If that happens, this will be the first Survivor where the winner got less screen time than the losers!  Which is why I think it might be Devens, he's dominating the screen time statistic.

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13 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

They couldn't exert control because he had the idol already. They didn't know that when they started tailing him but he did. If he was out there trying to shake them so he could find the idol, then fine. But going out there just to fuck with them after he had the idol is kind of dickish. Fair enough on his part but not the best optic for me.

This doesn't make any sense.  If he stopped looking, they would have assumed he found it- because he had been so vigilant in hunting.  (This is a common phenomenon for players in his position.)  He was compelled to carry on the charade of hunting to avoid this assumption.  So, given that he had no choice but to put on a show, the best way to do so is to try to frustrate your opponents- it creates the impression of desperation to get away and find the idol and frustrates the opponents because they don't want to chase him around, but feel compelled to do so for their own benefit.

When you're the prime target and you have no allies, the only tools available are exhausting and psyching out your opponents (including by trying to sow dissent).  I don't see how this could be viewed as "dickish" when it's SOP for survivor and the only real option available to him.  His only other option would be to lie around camp, which would make his opponents very suspicious, especially given his past conduct. 

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27 minutes ago, blackwing said:

 So hypocritical considering how angry he got when Ron tried a similar thing on him.

I don't think he was actually angry.  I think he was playing to the jury.

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Unpopular opinion: 

Other than not liking change in general, I don't hate EoE and I don't see what's so bad about it.  I do think it has sort of bombed in that the producers probably thought more people would raise the flag, but I think it's been interesting in that "social experiment" sense that Probst is always promising us.   We've heard them say how long the days seem without challenges, rewards and idol searches.  I wish we had seen more of them. I would like to know exactly what they're eating and if they're playing games to relieve the boredom.  There's no doubt in my mind that they are enduring more hunger and discomfort than the others.  If  the person who wins his/her way back in the game goes on to win the million I'll have no problem with that.  I like Rick and appreciate all the scrambling he's done to stay in the game, but if he loses to a EoE person I wont think it's unfair because "all that person did was sit around."   That's like saying the person who wins immunity doing a swimming challenge is better than the one who wins immunity standing on a pole for two hours.  Both are legitimate wins and doing slow time on the Edge gets credit from me.

If the final three were Rick, Gavin and whoever gets back from EoE I'd be satisfied with any of them winning.

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26 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

I wouldn't mind a Deven's win.  Other than his pouting early on, I think he's playing the best game he can--decent immunity wins, relentless idol searching, and having the time of his life.  I think he's given up on any sort of social game, except to try and keep it light at camp, because it is of no use with Aurora, Victoria, Gavin, and Laurent.  He's keeping Julie in his stable as his meat shield. 

At this point, I'd prefer a Victoria win, she's played a cagey game.  If the person who comes back from Exile next week has any strength left after all that deprivation, then I believe that is the person who will win--they are the one who will have the best history and pull with the jury.  Except for Reem.  Unless something radically changed out on Exile, and Reem is being a sweet supportive tribemate that isn't being shown on TV, I don't think even this Exile island jury would vote for her to win.  Or maybe they would, out of spite.

If that happens, this will be the first Survivor where the winner got less screen time than the losers!  Which is why I think it might be Devens, he's dominating the screen time statistic.

And being voted out once. Other then that, he has played a mediocre game on the bottom where he has not voted with the tribe and gotten lucky with who was sent home.

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51 minutes ago, blackwing said:

He had already found the idol so there was absolutely no reason to resort to all of the wacky hijinks just to put on a good show for the camera.  He clearly enjoyed himself, as he was gloating about it in his confessional.  He just wanted to make himself look awesome, and all the others look stupid.  So hypocritical considering how angry he got when Ron tried a similar thing on him.

A better play for him, and one that doesn't make him look as arrogant as he looks now, is for him to have just pretended to have given up.  He wouldn't have been controlled, he would have just not looked.  Or how about allow them to tail him?  He could have made some ostensibly failed attempts to look for an idol.  The others go on thinking he doesn't have an idol.

It appears your position is informed by your attitude towards the player, not the play.  Putting on a show for the camera is what these attention whores do- all of them- from spindly little david to i'm so odd, but cool aubrey, etc.  They also all know that attention whores get attention.  He's certainly not special in that regard.

The reason for the hijinks was to make them pay for trying to control his movements.  In doing so, he exhausted and frustrated them.  Who knows- perhaps that drama diminished their performance in the challenge just enough for him to win (he was in the back of the pack reaching the puzzle IIRC). 

I always find it odd when people take these characters so seriously.  I have never gotten the impression that devins is gloating or malevolent.  I think he's just having fun playing a game.  His histrionics are playful and merely for effect.  i don't think he was sincerely angry at ron over the clue.  I think he was just trying to use it to his advantage- to throw ron off his game or make him look bad in front of the jury.  I would venture that very few (if any) of the feuds we see on this show are real.  I certainly don't think that devins or, eg, aurora, have any hostility towards each other.  They're both together enough to appreciate they are just playing a game.   

I disagree that it would have been better for him to pretend to have given up.  We know they already did not trust him and were quite suspicious that he would pull out an idol.  He had an MO of hunting diligently for an idol.  And he had already found one a few days before!  Your approach would be more dangerous for him than helpful. 

What would be the benefit of letting them tail him?  Again, this would give them control.  He goes through the motions of pretending to look so they won't suspect he hs one, but they don't have to work for it?  Nah.  They are only required to casually tail him?  Why would he ever consider that a smart option?

Edited by BarneySays
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10 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

This doesn't make any sense.  If he stopped looking, they would have assumed he found it- because he had been so vigilant in hunting.  (This is a common phenomenon for players in his position.)  He was compelled to carry on the charade of hunting to avoid this assumption.  So, given that he had no choice but to put on a show, the best way to do so is to try to frustrate your opponents- it creates the impression of desperation to get away and find the idol and frustrates the opponents because they don't want to chase him around, but feel compelled to do so for their own benefit.

When you're the prime target and you have no allies, the only tools available are exhausting and psyching out your opponents (including by trying to sow dissent).  I don't see how this could be viewed as "dickish" when it's SOP for survivor and the only real option available to him.  His only other option would be to lie around camp, which would make his opponents very suspicious, especially given his past conduct. 

Or he could have said "Would you stop following me around?" Kept looking with everyone around and made them think he was looking. Then given up and gone back to camp.

He should not be in this position because he should have played a good enough game that he has allies. Instead, he was at the middle of his original tribe, participated in voting out the wrong people (Keith was a challenge liability and should have been voted out before Reem, Chris should not have been voted out), weakened his tribe with bad votes, ended up at the bottom of his tribe and was voted out.

Then when he came back he threw a temper tantrum and wouldn't work with his original tribe. Pouted, stamped his feet, and threw in with the Kama. Since then he has been on the wrong side of every vote. He never worked to develop strong enough relationships to build an alliance. Kama could count on his vote because they saw his very public temper tantrum.

Then, when he realized he was in trouble, he was saved by EoE advantages.

So yeah, he put himself in the position that he is in. So I don't give him credit for deciding that it would make great TV to get the others to chase him around.

Because, he should not be in the game at all. And yes, I was this pissy with Lil and whoever came back from Redemption Island. It is a stupid concept that rewards bad game play.

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9 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

f  the person who wins his/her way back in the game goes on to win the million I'll have no problem with that.  I like Rick and appreciate all the scrambling he's done to stay in the game, but if he loses to a EoE person I wont think it's unfair because "all that person did was sit around."   That's like saying the person who wins immunity doing a swimming challenge is better than the one who wins immunity standing on a pole for two hours.  Both are legitimate wins and doing slow time on the Edge gets credit from me.

I think the difference with your analogies is that these people have been voted out under the rules of the game and have not had to do anything (other than wait for godot), while those still in the game are fighting to stay alive.  Personally, i think it would be a disaster if one of the exilees were to win.   

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4 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

I always find it odd when people take these characters so seriously.  I have never gotten the impression that devins is gloating or malevolent.  I think he's just having fun playing a game.  His histrionics are playful and merely for effect.  i don't think he was sincerely angry at ron over the clue.  I think he was just trying to use it to his advantage- to throw ron off his game or make him look bad in front of the jury.  I would venture that very few (if any) of the feuds we see on this show are real.  I certainly don't think that devins or, eg, aurora, have any hostility towards each other.  They're both together enough to appreciate they are just playing a game.   

He, like Julie and Ron, only enjoy playing the game when they have the upper hand. When he was in the middle or bottom of his tribe, Rick was miserable. He was throwing temper tantrums. Now he is in a power position and he is having fun and doing what he wants.

The only difference between him and the Culpepper's of Survivor is that Rick is not a bullying asshat. But his mood is 100% dependent on if he knows he is safe. If he doesn't then he turns into a toddler.

Rick's tantrum after being voted out does not point to appreciating playing the game. It points to someone bitter with how others played the game. Rick and David threw in with Dan and Kelly and Lauren knowing that Dan and Kelly and Lauren were a trio. Rick and David could have worked with Wendy and Chris to vote out any one of those three but instead, Rick voted for Chris. He made that choice and then paid for it later when they got to five and he was the sacrificial lamb. And then he threw a temper tantrum and wouldn't work with Manu when they were the minority.

Rick was blindsided at that vote and I don't think he has driven a vote since that time. Hell, I can't think of when he did drive a vote. So he is having fun only because he is in a power position. That is it. As soon as he does not have immunity, he will revert to his toddler status.

God I hate this season. We shouldn't even be discussing Rick because he was already voted out.

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I keep wondering about Lauren and her idol.  Has she forgotten that she has one?  

I like Lauren, but it would be funny if she decided to play it but has forgotten where she hid it...

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6 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Or he could have said "Would you stop following me around?" Kept looking with everyone around and made them think he was looking. Then given up and gone back to camp.

He should not be in this position because he should have played a good enough game that he has allies. Instead, he was at the middle of his original tribe, participated in voting out the wrong people (Keith was a challenge liability and should have been voted out before Reem, Chris should not have been voted out), weakened his tribe with bad votes, ended up at the bottom of his tribe and was voted out.

He could have done many things instead.  That's not in question.  The issue is whether his actions made sense in the game.  I think they did.  And I don't think asking them to stop following him would have been effective in the least.  Remember, these people had already gone through his bag.  They would have laughed at his request (and there would be nothing wrong with them doing so, either).  I think most people, in his shoes, would have done the same.  His hide and seek was no different than ron trying to pass off that advantage as real or others trying to pass off a fake idol.  The motive isn't to humiliate another, but to try any measure possible to stay in the game.  No harm, no foul.

How he found himself alone is irrelevant.  It could be from bad decisions or simply bad fate (always an unwanted variable).  That has no bearing on whether his actions made sense. 

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8 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

He, like Julie and Ron, only enjoy playing the game when they have the upper hand. When he was in the middle or bottom of his tribe, Rick was miserable. He was throwing temper tantrums. Now he is in a power position and he is having fun and doing what he wants.

I don't share your impression.  Personally, I found ron unlikable.  But it appears they all liked him.  We haven't seen anything to indicate that devins is not equally liked (or aurora for that matter).  They need to create tension/hostility to have drama, but this group has all seemed (well, except reem perhaps) very nice and respectful to each other. 

Although I cannot stand people who are magnanimous when they're on top, but puerile and nasty when they're not (I avoid these people in life), I don't get the impression this is rick.  I think his histrionics are all part of the game.  It's the disrupter character.  Perhaps someone here with encyclopedic knowledge of the seasons and characters can confirm, but it seems that the disrupter character tends to do better in the game- tony, hantz, etc.- than the more docile and placid characters (see that clown who allowed the two guys to drag her to the end and never realized she was a goat).   

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1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Rick winning the IC is what really removed all the suspense.  

Point well taken.

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7 hours ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

At least one of the letters wasn't from J.T. Thomas offering to form an alliance.

That letter would have been to Wardog.

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1 minute ago, Lamb18 said:

That letter would have been to Wardog.

Isn't that The Wardog?

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7 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

I don't share your impression.  Personally, I found ron unlikable.  But it appears they all liked him.  We haven't seen anything to indicate that devins is not equally liked (or aurora for that matter).  They need to create tension/hostility to have drama, but this group has all seemed (well, except reem perhaps) very nice and respectful to each other. 

Although I cannot stand people who are magnanimous when they're on top, but puerile and nasty when they're not (I avoid these people in life), I don't get the impression this is rick.  I think his histrionics are all part of the game.  It's the disrupter character.  Perhaps someone here with encyclopedic knowledge of the seasons and characters can confirm, but it seems that the disrupter character tends to do better in the game- tony, hantz, etc.- than the more docile and placid characters (see that clown who allowed the two guys to drag her to the end and never realized she was a goat).   

And yet so many people disliked Wendy as the disrupter character. I guess being a disrupter who frees chickens and messes with peoples head with erratic behavior from the bottom is ok if you are a guy and find lots of idols.

Hantz was a disrupter and a goat, even though he doesn't get that. He was an asshole and a bully and pretty much everyone saw that.

Tony played from a good place for most of the game and was loud and a bit obnoxious but was more ridiculous then a disrupter. He benefited from Woo being an overly loyal idiot.

Rick is trying to be a character and I tend to greatly dislike the people who try and be a character. I don't like Ben (Coach). I don't like Brad. I don't like Philip. Rick annoyed me long ago.

I didn't like Ron. I thought he was smug and collapsed when he was blindsided. I was thrilled when he was voted out.

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1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Unpopular opinion: 

Other than not liking change in general, I don't hate EoE and I don't see what's so bad about it.  I do think it has sort of bombed in that the producers probably thought more people would raise the flag, but I think it's been interesting in that "social experiment" sense that Probst is always promising us.   We've heard them say how long the days seem without challenges, rewards and idol searches.  I wish we had seen more of them. I would like to know exactly what they're eating and if they're playing games to relieve the boredom.  There's no doubt in my mind that they are enduring more hunger and discomfort than the others.  If  the person who wins his/her way back in the game goes on to win the million I'll have no problem with that.  I like Rick and appreciate all the scrambling he's done to stay in the game, but if he loses to a EoE person I wont think it's unfair because "all that person did was sit around."   That's like saying the person who wins immunity doing a swimming challenge is better than the one who wins immunity standing on a pole for two hours.  Both are legitimate wins and doing slow time on the Edge gets credit from me.

If the final three were Rick, Gavin and whoever gets back from EoE I'd be satisfied with any of them winning.

I wonder if the EOE might have been more successful if the people were sequestered from each other. Since footage of EOE has been minimal and not remotely interesting, they might have gotten a few more quitters if they'd had to be out there alone. I guess that's not feasible from a cameras/crew perspective, but the comfort of having a bunch of other people around probably helped most of them hang in and watered down the whole concept.

Quote

I wouldn't mind a Deven's win.  Other than his pouting early on, I think he's playing the best game he can--decent immunity wins, relentless idol searching, and having the time of his life.  I think he's given up on any sort of social game, except to try and keep it light at camp, because it is of no use with Aurora, Victoria, Gavin, and Laurent.  He's keeping Julie in his stable as his meat shield. 

I think if most people were honest with themselves, they'd realize that they'd probably have "pouted" too when the game went sideways for them. He earned his way back in, against the odds given that Chris was there, had a falling out with his best ally and then buried the hatchet and realigned with him when necessary (which worked out when David gifted him an advantage from EOE). 

He hasn't behaved perfectly in every situation, but I don't get any malicious vibes from anything he's done. And most of his antics seem to be rather tongue-in-cheek, so it doesn't really come across as arrogant to me. His "you're a cool girl who refuses to work with me" and "still??" (at Aurora's parting "get him out" words) made me laugh. Aurora's hard opinions and rigidity sunk her game, while Rick's decision to get over himself and work with David again helped him stay in.

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I disagree that it would have been better for him to pretend to have given up.  We know they already did not trust him and were quite suspicious that he would pull out an idol.  He had an MO of hunting diligently for an idol.  And he had already found one a few days before!  Your approach would be more dangerous for him than helpful. 

Agreed. No one would have believed that he'd give up, that would have been game suicide and he's shown no signs of rolling over.

I honestly don't think spending all day tailing someone on their search for an idol is all that useful a pastime. If you know he has it, you make a plan. If you suspect he has it, you make a plan. I don't think they can ever be 100% certain that they've followed someone every single moment of every single day, so the risk is always there.

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And yet so many people disliked Wendy as the disrupter character. I guess being a disrupter who frees chickens and messes with peoples head with erratic behavior from the bottom is ok if you are a guy and find lots of idols.

I don't see the parallel. Rick's "disruptions" have been to other people's games to the benefit of his own. Wendy was in her own world, making moves seemingly for her own amusement. She was a wild card, but in a rather pointless way.

Edited by ljenkins782
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I can't imagine that lack of energy doesn't play some kind of factor. Of course Devins is going to search diligently for an idol. He KNOWS he needs one. Others don't have the proper motivation to expend the kind of energy that looking for an idol requires.

I don't see how a win by one of the EoE returnees is fair at all - because the jury is made up of EoE people. Biased.

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9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think the idiots made the right move.  They were ambivalent about whether to vote out Julie or Aurora, anyway.  So why take the risk that Devens wasn't bluffing and maybe get yourself voted out?

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Aurora was the vote all along.  Lauren didn't want to vote Julie off.  Gavin wanted to stay loyal with Lauren.  Victoria seemed the voice of reason, but she didn't have a majority to keep Aurora.  I still think it might have been idiotic, because Julie has no loyalty to Gavin/Lauren/Victoria, and I'd be surprised if she'd work with them.  Something about Julie just seems sour.  Aurora was no doubt right that Lauren wants Julie around because she's an easy beat in the final 3.  Whether this backfires on Gavin/Victoria next week we'll see.  Who knows who will come back from EOE. 

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One of the factors we rarely talk about is that a lot of decent players get pretty far in the game but end up boxed in by decisions they made long ago.  Like Julie is an example.  They make viable decisions that keep them in the game until the merge, past the merge, and so on, but eventually (because their allies are voted out or other reasons) find themselves with no room to maneuver.  Or else they are loathe to abandon the "sunk costs" of past decisions, which can be a practical and also psychological motivator. 

That's why players like Mike, Tony, and now Rick, or other "disrupters" as coined above, end up with exciting play because they actually have room to maneuver and molds things to their benefit.  What kind of exciting play is Victoria going to make, having gone all-in with Gavin and Lauren and now needing their numbers? 

Rick really has nothing to lose.  It also takes a personality that is not risk-averse.

Aurora could have (and should have) blown this all out by siding with Rick and Julie, and hoping to take him out in an immunity contest or at FTC with her "story," but she was just too stubborn.  She had room to maneuver, but chose not to.

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I'm fine with Rick winning. At least he doesn't refer to himself in the third person or roll his eyes at tribal council. But I do get suspicious when the one player who absolutely has to find a hidden immunity idol manages to do that every week. It's sketchy as hell.

That said, Rick has also managed to win his share of regular immunity idols at the challenges, so it's not as if he isn't working hard for this.

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In thinking about Rick today and why I’m perfectly fine with the thought of him winning I realized (1) I need a life and (2) the good humor I have regarding him grew exponentially when he and his wife were so remarkably understated during the snot filled bawl fest that is the family visit. Neither one sobbed like the other has been at war for months and they seemed to have a good time at the challenge in an enjoyable, easy way. I liked his banter in talking heads before but the family visit was a tipping point for me. Well that, and I find everyone else almost incredibly forgettable. 

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4 hours ago, Special K said:

Never.  We are stuck in an endless loop.

Reem confronting each person as they stumble, bleary eyed onto the hell island known as the "Edge of Extinction" is like Sonny and Cher's "I Got You Babe" waking up Bill Murray every morning on Groundhog Day.

By the way, screw my DVR for cutting that part off at the end of every episode, which if I knew what was going on, would likely be my favourite part.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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5 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I think the other thing that has sucked about this season is the lack of interviews and Ponderosa videos. Maybe instead of Ponderosa they could have had an EoE series so we had a clue what they were doing out there but that still would have sucked. Because they did nothing out there.

This would have made great online content in place of the Ponderosa videos.

I think after the first bootee won their way back in, they should have had a weekly vote off on EoE as well to keep the jury numbers down, until the next bootee wins their way back in and then everyone left could be on the jury. Would be some good strategising on who you want to compete against to win your way back in.

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59 minutes ago, Special K said:

One of the factors we rarely talk about is that a lot of decent players get pretty far in the game but end up boxed in by decisions they made long ago.  Like Julie is an example.  They make viable decisions that keep them in the game until the merge, past the merge, and so on, but eventually (because their allies are voted out or other reasons) find themselves with no room to maneuver.  Or else they are loathe to abandon the "sunk costs" of past decisions, which can be a practical and also psychological motivator. 

That's why players like Mike, Tony, and now Rick, or other "disrupters" as coined above, end up with exciting play because they actually have room to maneuver and molds things to their benefit.  What kind of exciting play is Victoria going to make, having gone all-in with Gavin and Lauren and now needing their numbers? 

Rick really has nothing to lose.  It also takes a personality that is not risk-averse.

Aurora could have (and should have) blown this all out by siding with Rick and Julie, and hoping to take him out in an immunity contest or at FTC with her "story," but she was just too stubborn.  She had room to maneuver, but chose not to.

That's an interesting point. The bolded part applies to players who landed in around 5th or 6th place in past seasons, they lock into an alliance that protects them deep into the game and then never make a move in their own self interest. The game changes depending on how far in you go and how many people are left, the ones that make it are the people who can flex and maneuver with whoever they end up with when the numbers get small.

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Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Aurora was the vote all along.  Lauren didn't want to vote Julie off.  Gavin wanted to stay loyal with Lauren.  Victoria seemed the voice of reason, but she didn't have a majority to keep Aurora. 

When did Lauren get adopted into this group so thoroughly anyway? She, Kelley and Wardog were an island of 3 for the longest time, but as soon as they were gone, she seems to have fallen right in with the majority somehow.

Victoria does seem like the most logical one of the bunch. I'm guessing she wanted Julie gone to keep Rick from having any potential allies, since Aurora made it clear as day that she would never work with him. On the other hand, Aurora was a very real immunity threat, while Julie hasn't even come close.

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1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Aurora was the vote all along.  Lauren didn't want to vote Julie off.  Gavin wanted to stay loyal with Lauren.  Victoria seemed the voice of reason, but she didn't have a majority to keep Aurora.  I still think it might have been idiotic, because Julie has no loyalty to Gavin/Lauren/Victoria, and I'd be surprised if she'd work with them.  Something about Julie just seems sour.  Aurora was no doubt right that Lauren wants Julie around because she's an easy beat in the final 3.  Whether this backfires on Gavin/Victoria next week we'll see.  Who knows who will come back from EOE. 

How it works out could depend upon who comes back from EOE.  It would be funny if it were Aurora, and that is not all that unlikely.  

Even if a pro-Devens player comes back from EOE, I'm not sure it would make sense for Julie to make it a 3-3 split by joining Devens and the returnee.

Also, Julie and Lauren are tight and Julie may be convinced that they were never going to vote her off and Aurora was going to EOE, with or without Deven's bluff.   

I don't think anyone wants to go to FTC with Devens.

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