S08.E05: The Bells

[cambridgeguy]

1 minute ago, Scaeva said:

While I don't think Dany's breaking bad was handled well by the TV writers, it wasn't completely out of left field. Sudden yes, but not completely without warning. Her instincts have always tended a bit toward ruthlessness, it's just that other people were usually able to talk her down.

It would have been (somewhat) in character if she had flown straight for the Red Keep after the bells rang and incinerated the entire building.  That's more justifiable and if this had ignited some wildfire chain reaction then so be it.  However, she deliberately roasted fleeing civilians and her army massacred soldiers who had already thrown down their arms. 

When Jaime was faced with keeping his oath and letting Aerys burn the city to the ground he chose to dishonor himself forever by killing him.  Jon has a similar choice now - is he going to be OK serving a queen who gives no quarter and deliberately kills civilians?

[WatchrTina]

45 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I mean, is this really what George RR Martin wanted? To end his epic sprawling fantasy stretching decades and continents...like this?  . . . Cersei and Jamie die in the most anti climactic way possible?  . . . Cersei is taken out by...a falling wall?

Actually I think Cersei and Jaime's ending was pretty good.  I kept wondering if they were going to make it (and I also kept wondering if Jaime was going to slit Cersei's throat when he finally found her but no he didn't and that felt true to the character).  I was on the edge of my seat.  They nearly made it and then . . . the exit was blocked and they are trapped.  And then we see the ceiling collapse begin at the far end of the chamber and it comes for them.  I have no complaints.  Cersei needed to die and I'm glad she died in Jaime's arms.

But I'm calling it now . . . I think there is a little Lannister bun in the oven up at Winterfell.

Edited May 13, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Sakura12]

1 minute ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Thank you. Sansa didn't see anything. She just didn't like Dany because Dany had two dragons and Sansa is all, I want a free North. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's not retcon and make it seem as though Sansa is so smart she didn't like Dany because she knew that Dany was going to destroy King's Landing. 

But don't you know the Starks are the most amazing family ever. They are the smartest (Sansa), the deadliest (Arya), the big damn hero (Jon), and the all knowing psychic (Bran). Plus they have the strongest plot armor in all of Westeros. They are unbeatable.

[watchTV]

2 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

And cersei has been trying to kill or maim tyrion all his life.. They're still siblings he still tried to get her to safety.. Away from the throne and to keep the ppl safe.. But also cuz he didn't want to kill his sister.. Its a pretty normal reaction the only ppl who've actively tried to.. Or actually killed family members are like stannis Cersei.. Ramsay. Not great company

I didn't see it as Tyrion not wanting to kill Cersei. It was Tyrion trying to get her out so Jaimie could tell them to ring the bell and spare thousands of people.

[seawind]

I really don't know what I'm feeling right now. This was a visually incredible episode. But that may be the best thing I can say about it.

I have no problem with the total destruction, and with more of a sad ending rather than "yay, the heroes saved the day." (Honestly I thought The Long Night would have felt more like this.) I have no problem if the story wants Dany to go mad. But this was forced, rushed, and unearned. I get what they were going for: first she loses Jorah, then Rhaegal, then Missandei, then Varys betrays her, then she effectively loses Tyrion, and then Jon "rejects" her. So Dany had nothing left but Drogon. BUT. That was not enough for me to believe that she would just BURN innocents by the thousands. The way they did it, It just didn't work. She had EVERYTHING — the city surrendered, she had her throne. When Drogon lifted off after the bells rang, I really thought she was going to head directly for Cersei. But no, apparently she just really needed to destroy her throne and burn all the little children along with it. Sigh. 😞

So you put the Golden Company OUTSIDE your walls? OK...because that makes great battle sense.

Remember when 99.9% of the Dothraki were killed in The Long Night? Oh, wait... 

Remember when 99.9% of the Unsullied were killed in The Long Night? Oh, wait... 

I really hate that Varys died for nothing. NOTHING. (Unless one of his letters makes something happen next episode, I suppose.)

One good thing in this episode: the scene between Tyrion & Jamie. Such great acting.

Oh the other good thing in the episode: Sandor yelling "FUCKING DIE!!!!!"

The double Ds robbed me of the joy of bringing Cersei down. I couldn't enjoy Cersei's comeuppance as much as I should have been able to when thousands and thousands of innocents were needlessly burning. They also destroyed Jaime's character arc. Broke my heart on that one. 

Remember how awesome it was when we had Dany, Yara, Olenna, and Mama Sand Snake in a room, and it was all women getting ready to rule the world? Good times. Damn if they didn't take a hard right from there.

[lmsweb]

Also: I'm on rewatch now. That scene of Arya and the Hound marching into the city is awesome. It's perfectly timed with the music. And I'm also wondering how tired Maisie's little legs were after probably having to do like 30 takes.

[Otherkate]

56 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I loved the episode because in reality people don’t act the way you want them to.  

Same here. Sure, I wanted Cersei to be gutted by Arya, but people don't always get what they deserve. In fact, things rarely work out that nicely. 

Did I think Jaime and Cersei's ending was romantic? God, no. I thought - these two were fucked up from the moment we met them, they remained fucked up, and they died fucked up. I mean those two were FUCKED up from childhood. It's not easy to pull yourself out of a totally twisted and abusive relationship and Jaime wasn't able to do it either. The love of a good woman is not enough. It just isn't. That whole ending was so sad to me, as someone who grew to really love Jaime, but so realistic. It also reminded me of him telling Cersei in S1 that he would be fine with everyone being killed until it was just the two of them left in the world. 

50 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

I guess I am the only one who isn't surprised Dany ended up here but they got there in the worst possible way that it makes no sense.  Way too rushed and very anti-climatic.

You are not the only one. I started rewatching season 1 last week and I'm not surprised by this from Dany at all. I think, for me, I was always on her side because of who she was up against, but she always had a very unsettling response to seeing her enemies vanquished. Now she's going up against people I like and it's a total mindfuck. I'm enjoying this in a masochistic sort of way because I'm on her side in so many ways, but she is clearly in the wrong. She was betrayed by Jon and Tyrion and, coupled with everything else, who wouldn't lose it? I do think it was way too rushed though. WAY too rushed. But, for me, it's not out of left field at all. 

When she killed Varys the way she did, I also thought of Ned's lesson about the one who passes the sentence must be the one to swing the sword. Dracarys indeed. 

47 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Thank you, I got it too.  Dany was like, fuck all of you. That’s what power can do to someone, especially after what happened to Dany on the last episode.  

I don’t care if I’m the only one, I liked the episode.

You are not the only one. I'm sad, I'm angry, I'm disappointed, but none of it feels out of nowhere to me. 

The Tyrion/Jaime scene was beautiful. 

[sistermagpie]

51 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Except she didn't do anything in this ep except talk big, and then run around looking scared.  Assassination is one thing; battle is something else again.

Arya was just in a battle in the last episode. She was the best fighter in the castle against the AotD!

42 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don’t think Dany was mad either.  I agree with the poster who said it’s insulting to call her mad.

Dany was hurt, angry, fucking pissed off.  She saw her child, her dragon killed, her most trusted confidant, friend, brutally murdered in front of her. 

Who would be all love and light after all that shit.

Remember the last word of episode 4, Dracarus indeed.

The moment where she decided to burn everything didn't really work for me. I can see the raw materials there. It has always seemed to me that it was getting to the place where ambition took precedence over all the higher ideals, but I think it really needed more time. Accusing Sansa of putting Varys to death was pretty out there.

I didn't have a problem with Dany being motivated by loneliness and feeling unloved--though while I do have sympathy for her feelings, when she loses people I can't help but think that well, they were part of your army that you were using in a war. That's kind of what you put them into, even when they're not specifically fighting for your throne in that moment.

I thought Arya's arc worked the best maybe because it was the easiest to understand in a series of quick, simple scenes. I like her going from avenger to protector, white horse and all.

I wouldn't have minded Cersei herself dying in a pile of rubble of her own making, but having Jaime there with her cradling her in her arms was annoying.

[Solace247]

I honestly don’t know what everyone is freaking out about. Clearly, next episode will show that everyone has safely evacuated King’s landing. In fact, I have it on good authority that KL has actually experienced a population increase over the course of 24 hours.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Solace247
Words going where they don’t belong

[Heathrowe]

5 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Thank you. Sansa didn't see anything. She just didn't like Dany because Dany had two dragons and Sansa is all, I want a free North. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's not retcon and make it seem as though Sansa is so smart she didn't like Dany because she knew that Dany was going to destroy King's Landing. 

Eh, my take is that Sansa just didn't think there was any reason to trust Dany any more than Cersei. Just because Jon Snow says so isn't really good enough as he knows nothing, historically. But the writing is so oblique and cover your bases for any ending, it's very frustrating.

[mxc90]

Golden Company!? Money well spent Cersei!

Or Is Tyrion responsible for the remaining Lannister debts?

How did Euron allow Jaime get the sword anywhere near to him? 

Edited May 13, 2019 by mxc90

[UNOSEZ]

22 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Dany acting like she has for the past 7 seasons.

Cersei getting her comeuppance in a better way. For years we've discussed who should kill her: Sansa, Arya, Jamie, Tyrion.... No one ever said "wall." Even better than an assassination would be her demise from political maneuvering (it is a game of thrones).

Jamie not running back to Cersei, but helping to take her down.

Tyrion being intelligent.

Varys not switching alliances on a dime and getting roasted for it.

But Dany has been do what I want or I'll burn stuff since the show began basically 

Just because we wanted her to get murdered doesn't mean it wasn't  a fitting end... She died trapped.. Knowing her child was about to die... The man she loved was about to die.. Her kingdom had fallen and she was totally defeated 

As I've said earlier why everyone thought that jaime would kill the woman he's loved all his life.. The mother of his kids is beyond me 

Varys has said from jump if he thinks ur the best for the kingdom and the little folk he's on ur side.. Its what he's shown us.. Once or not.. He's out.. And Dany said if you betray me.. I'll burn you( again because she likes to burn shit)  he betrayed.. She burned... All seems logical and inline with what I've seen  so far 

[Jewlmc]

Wont it be great when both the crazy women are dead and someone with a penis can be in charge? Bitches be crazy. 😛

[ParadoxLost]

1 minute ago, TaylorBruh25 said:

Uh, so to be clear I’ve just finished binging the show in the last two months. So, if there’s something I’m missing here inform me, but, how did... anyone think this was going to end differently? 

Because most of us haven't been binging.  We've been watching with years between seasons.  This was the upsetting that this show began with.  Then once the Red Wedding happened they lulled everyone into thinking good guys might win and redemption was possible because heroes/heroines to kill were thin on the ground.  But now we are back to no happy endings.

Frankly. I don't get the surprise over Jamie choosing Cersei in the end.  Its the second time he's gone on a redemption journey with Brienne and then chose Cersei.

[Leroux]

48 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Did anyone even bother to explain to Dany beforehand that the bells being rung meant surrender?!  Tyrion seemed to mention it to everyone else except her.

She knew. Tyrion explained it to her and she agreed. Grey Worm was there as a witness

She fully knew what the ringing of the bells meant. She made the executive decision to kill civilians and destroy the city despite the surrender. 

Now I understand why Bran needed Jon to know about his birth, he probably wanted to avoid this, he just couldn't figure out that Jon would become another of her yes man. All the signs have been there for anyone who cared to see but most viewers were in love with her and her dragons so the signs were dismissed. She has said it dozen on times. It has come from her own mouth: Fire and Blood, burn city to ashes, burn cities to the ground. All part of her promises. 

Tonight she did well on her promises of seven seasons. 

[Drogo]

1 minute ago, Sakura12 said:

But don't you know the Starks are the most amazing family ever. They are the smartest (Sansa), the deadliest (Arya), the big damn hero (Jon), and the all knowing psychic (Bran). Plus they have the strongest plot armor in all of Westeros. They are unbeatable.

Like Grey's Anatomy- everyone working there is The Best [Plastic Surgeon/Neurosurgeon/Pediatric Surgeon/Prenatal Surgeon/etc.] In Their Field.

[Ladyrain]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

They are going to cost HBO billions on the spinoffs that nobody will watch now  

I'm afraid you're right. 

[Misslindsey]

1 hour ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Dany's mad queen was modeled after Lala from Vanderpump Rules, after anyone dares to mention her dead father.

Does that mean Dany gives blow jobs for private jets...or um....dragons?

[QuinnM]

3 minutes ago, seawind said:

Oh the other good thing in the episode: Sandor yelling "FUCKING DIE

Killer good line.

[Sentient Meat]

23 minutes ago, dizzyd said:

Why does everyone think Cersei and Jaime are dead? They had rubble fall around them. So did Arya. I say till I see the bodies, they're alive.  No way the 2nd and 3rd credited actors were ended like that and didn't make it to the last episode. 

Maybe they dig out Cersei alive laying next to Jaime's rotting corpse.

That would be a more fitting end.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Sentient Meat

[Drogo]

3 minutes ago, seawind said:

Remember when 99.9% of the Dothraki were killed in The Long Night? Oh, wait... 

Remember when 99.9% of the Unsullied were killed in The Long Night? Oh, wait... 

Last episode's war council was pretty clear that there were half left of each faction. 

[Timetoread]

1 hour ago, Luckylyn said:

Jon tends by be motivated by what he believes is the greater good.

They ALL are until they are in power.  That is the point of this tale, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[watchTV]

Initial reaction to this episode:

Siri, Google, Alexa, cancel HBO.

[ShellsandCheese]

Why wasn't Varys concerned about how Dany's coin landed three seasons ago? Everyone's actions are mind-boggling. 

[UNOSEZ]

If I had one more request its for Arya to have a sit down with Jon and go... "See... You see what I was talking about" I just need her to lay into him for a bit for vouching for her so wholeheartedly 

[Solace247]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I loved the episode because in reality people don’t act the way you want them to.  

I’ve worked with people who’ve done 180s because bad shit happened to them, so I know it happens in real life, so this episode didn’t bother me at all.

I am curious for all who hated it, what would you have preferred?

7 more episodes.

[Richness]

This is the first episode of Game of Thrones that I've absolutely hated. The only thing that touched me is Tyrian saying goodbye to Jamie. Congratulations D&D, you fucked the (King's) landing!

[Sentient Meat]

I don't get why people think the show is so misogynist.  Two of the three most likely to end up on the Iron Throne are women (Sansa/Arya) and they've alluded to the madness in the Targaryen family since the beginning of the show.  Dany is a tragic figure, but she has no support system, or family since Jon betrayed her so if that triggered her madness it makes sense.

[Straycat80]

Is there even an iron throne to sit on after all that? Or is it ashes like everything else? 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Straycat80

[hypnotoad]

Quote

I am curious for all who hated it, what would you have preferred?

If the ending had to be Dany burning everything and I guess being a 'mad queen' Targ - then more time needed to be given to lay that groundwork.

Rather than completely destroying Dany, by having her burn King's Landing to the ground - how about she just burns up Cersei after the bells ring? Cersei was still standing on that damn balcony where she has been virtually all season.

No I wouldn't have Dany burning up children. No Cersei did not deserve a big romantic ending - my gosh after all the people she has killed and all the evil she has done and she is (seemingly) killed by a wall?

Jamie didn't go to kill Cersei - of course not - theirs is the best love story of all! Ugggh. He just found out she sent Bronn to kill him and that means nothing. He just found out she was fucking Urine and that means nothing.

I am sick to death of Tyrion 'sad face.' Seriously. Am I really supposed to believe Dany wouldn't have fried him by now after all of this? And he still goes and frees Jaimie?

I respect the sheer size and scope of this show - the look of it is amazing. The books are complicated and dense and I think overall these show runners have done amazing work to get it onscreen. This has been one of my favorite shows ever. I even watch it live which rarely happens for anything else. But the last half of episode 4 and now this episode? Very disappointing.

And I am someone who loved Lost from beginning to end. Yes I liked that series finale - so when I say I am hating this - believe me!

Also ... my cat is now refusing to watch anymore! He didn't even look at the tv as Drogon burned everything.

[ShellsandCheese]

Just now, Sentient Meat said:

I don't get why people think the show is so misogynist.  Two of the three most likely to end up on the Iron Throne are women (Sansa/Arya) and they've alluded to the madness in the Targaryen family since the beginning of the show.  Dany is a tragic figure, but she has no support system, or family since Jon betrayed her so if that triggered her madness it makes sense.

It makes no logical sense for any of the Starks (not counting Jon) to end up on the Iron Throne. Their home is in the North. They don't want it. They want an independent north, probably preferably with no Iron Throne. 

[WatchrTina]

16 minutes ago, MadameKillerB said:

why was Varys removing his rings? I know he knew he was going down but what was up with the rings?

That's a good question.  The only thing I can think of is that when a prisoner is taken into custody they are relieved of their valuable so I guess he was just cutting out the middleman.  Or maybe he realized that they would be melted and ruined by his inevitable dragon-fire execution, so he left them behind -- possibly as payment to his last little bird.

[Timetoread]

1 minute ago, Sentient Meat said:

I don't get why people think the show is so misogynist.  Two of the three most likely to end up on the Iron Throne are women (Sansa/Arya) and they've alluded to the madness in the Targaryen family since the beginning of the show.  Dany is a tragic figure, but she has no support system, or family since Jon betrayed her so if that triggered her madness it makes sense.

Because the ENTIRE SHOW has been instance after instance of men misunderstanding and trying to control women.

[chrisvee]

58 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Dany was going to turn, I would have preferred some sort of halfway believable motivation.

apparently the loss of Jon’s magical penis drove her insane 

[Timetoread]

Just now, chrisvee said:

apparently the loss of Jon’s magical penis drove her insane 

And it's not even that big.  They should have hooked her up with Podrick.

[TiredMe]

You can count me as one who wonders why everyone is surprised Dany burned everything to the ground. She said numerous times she would and has shown signs of her ruthlessness through the series. It just rings true to me. 

of course, I’m one who wanted total destruction and complete anarchy for the ending. Fuck a happy ending. I wanted utter madness. Yay!

But I would have liked a more satisfying Cersei death. 

[dramachick]

I wasn't surprised at all.

I have never liked Danerys.

This is where her character has been headed.

[Sentient Meat]

3 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

Because the ENTIRE SHOW has been instance after instance of men misunderstanding and trying to control women.

Yes, and the most sympathetic male characters are a dwarf and a eunuch.  The point of the show is that a world controlled by men are cruel.  The Dothraki were nearly completely wiped out

[MichaelaRae]

5 minutes ago, Sentient Meat said:

I don't get why people think the show is so misogynist.  Two of the three most likely to end up on the Iron Throne are women (Sansa/Arya) and they've alluded to the madness in the Targaryen family since the beginning of the show.  Dany is a tragic figure, but she has no support system, or family since Jon betrayed her so if that triggered her madness it makes sense.

I agree that Dany hasn't had much of a support system - and most of what she had is dead - but Jon didn't betray her. She asked him to swear not tell his family about his origins. He said he couldn't swear that. He was upfront about that. I like both Dany and Jon (despite this episode trying its best to massacre both of them) but Jon's actions are not responsible for Dany's actions and he definitely didn't betray her since he told her all along - while continuing to swear his allegiance to her - that he couldn't keep a secret from his family.

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

Jamie didn't go to kill Cersei - of course not - theirs is the best love story of all! Ugggh. He just found out she sent Bronn to kill him and that means nothing. He just found out she was fucking Urine and that means nothing.

I think it would have been better if at least they'd shown it as Jaime punishing himself because yeah, the fact that Cersei actually sent a guy to kill him makes it seem like he thinks they're just some wacky couple that tries to kill each other a lot.

5 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

I am sick to death of Tyrion 'sad face.' Seriously. Am I really supposed to believe Dany wouldn't have fried him by now after all of this? And he still goes and frees Jaimie?

At least with this part he was just trying to find a way to save the city and if he had to give Jaime Cersei to do that he'd do it.

[Sentient Meat]

6 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

It makes no logical sense for any of the Starks (not counting Jon) to end up on the Iron Throne. Their home is in the North. They don't want it. They want an independent north, probably preferably with no Iron Throne. 

They could end up with a Northern and Southern kingdom controlled by Sansa and Tyrion.

All I know is that a traditional alpha male seems unlikely to be the hero of the story.

[GodsBeloved]

34 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

And in her test of character between using as much force as necessary to take "her" throne and just laying waste to make sure everyone knew who was in charge ( queen of ashes)  as you say.. You see what won out... Jorah is shaking his head in heaven saying No Khaleesi 

He is, he really is

[haje]

jaime/cersei dying together? completely tracks. made absolute sense. but the way they died? my fucking god. bull fucking shit. 

the ONLY thing i even semi-liked was the hound telling arya not to be like him but even that should’ve been executed better. he should’ve been dying. she should have had to mercy kill him. THAT should’ve been why she gives up on revenge. her having to kill someone she genuinely cares about and realizing that she’s no longer consumed by revenge. not her seeing a bunch of random no-names die around her. they try to really shove down these civilians and ask us to care about them when they've done zero work in the past 8 seasons to make us care but then decide to do it all in one episode. and clearly that was why they gave that to arya. because we care about her and they thought seeing it through her eyes would be effective and it was effective in that maisie acted the hell out of it. but i felt nothing because it was so clearly the writers pushing something they never properly developed.

they really managed to ruin all the character deaths even though they were handed this shit on a silver platter and all they had to do was follow through.  jaime killing cersei as they died. cleganebowl happening and arya giving sandor the gift of mercy. but instead they choice the shittiest way to execute these deaths. i am baffled. 

on the other hand, i thought the actors were great? bless emilia for trying her best to make this writing for dany work. i've never been the biggest fan of her acting but she has truly impressed me here especially considering what she has to work with. ncw and lena were great in that last scene despite everything else being terrible. maisie was wonderful. bless all their souls. they really are trying their best to rescue the shit show they were handed.

the only reason i’m going to watch the final episode is to make sure arya lives through this. that’s all i care about anymore.

[Timetoread]

2 minutes ago, Sentient Meat said:

Yes, and the most sympathetic male characters are a dwarf and a eunuch.  The point of the show is that a world controlled by men are cruel.  The Dothraki were nearly completely wiped out

I think the point is that life is cruel period.  The men want to use this weapon of mass destruction for their own purposes and when it is good for them, but then they want to put it on a leash and shame it into good behavior.  At the end of the day it do what it do.

[MichaelaRae]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

At least with this part he was just trying to find a way to save the city and if he had to give Jaime Cersei to do that he'd do it.

Yeah, I think Tyrion's speech to Jaime was pretty clear that he wasn't about saving Cersei, he was about saving the city. And that he also knew that his actions would be likely to sign his own death warrant.

[enoughcats]

7 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

27 minutes ago, MadameKillerB said:

why was Varys removing his rings? I know he knew he was going down but what was up with the rings?

That's a good question.  The only thing I can think of is that when a prisoner is taken into custody they are relieved of their valuable so I guess he was just cutting out the middleman. 

When he took off a ring, I expected him to dump poison from it into his chalice and drink it.

[sumiregusa]

I really want everyone here who seems to have seen the writing on the wall with Daenerys going crazy to just stop acting like vindicated experts and pay attention to Emilia Clarke's interviews following the show. Let me know if you still think you always believed she would end up this way because I can guarantee you that she doesn't agree. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

I don't understand why Tyrion was spared the Dracarys treatment since he's the one who blabbed the big secret to Varys.

Sorry, Dany, but Jon's not trying fcuk his aunt anymore. Them's the breaks.

"I'm Arya Stark. I'm going to kill Queen Cersei. And then I'm going to Disneyland!" Yeah, at that point it was clear if Cersei got murdered it wouldn't be Arya who did it.

I don't understand what happened. Why would KL not have had Scorpions on all sides? Dany was just able to come in the back door?

Cersei vs. Dany. The hardest staredown in TV history. And then Dany had to go nucking futz and ruin everything. Geez.

Did Euron die thinking Cersei's baby was his?

"Hello, big brother." Finally!

So was Arya still alive at the end or was she in the afterlife? If she's still alive, maybe it's time for her to kill Dany.

[Kanner]

1 minute ago, MichaelaRae said:

I agree that Dany hasn't had much of a support system - and most of what she had is dead - but Jon didn't betray her. She asked him to swear not tell his family about his origins. He said he couldn't swear that. He was upfront about that. I like both Dany and Jon (despite this episode trying its best to massacre both of them) but Jon's actions are not responsible for Dany's actions and he definitely didn't betray her since he told her all along - while continuing to swear his allegiance to her - that he couldn't keep a secret from his family.

Right. Dany thinking Jon betrayed her is just like Cersei thinking Tommen betrayed her. Or Cersei probably had a better argument. 

Dany was right about the consequences but she was not right to ask him to hide the truth from his family. 

[HeySandyStrange]

21 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

But I'm calling it now . . . I think there is a little Lannister bun in the oven up at Winterfell

God I hope not, but I suspect it to. Sorry, Jaime does not deserve to gave his legacy live on through the Brienne. Her awesomeness, if it mixes with anyone, deserves something better then a weak man like Jaime, who choose his terrible sister over a great person like Brienne. Fuck, even Tormund would be a better baby daddy.