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Dee

S05.E18: The Roughest Day

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As Cookie and Lucious deal with each other's betrayals, they wonder if this could be the end for their relationship. Meanwhile, Andre's life hangs in the balance and the future of Empire is in jeopardy as the Feds close in and the mystery of who is in the coffin is finally revealed.

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Wow, they disposed of Kingsley so quickly. Too bad it was too late to change that story. I think that actor was good and Kingsley would have been good as the third son taking Jamal's role. However, Lee might prefer to add a gay character to the show.

So Cookie is over Lucious. They could use a break from each other. I am sure they will eventually get back together. I hope that Damian Cross is back next season.

Grisselle and Becky starting their own label will be fun albeit unrealistic. I look forward to being entertained by their antics.

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1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

Wow, they disposed of Kingsley so quickly. Too bad it was too late to change that story. I think that actor was good and Kingsley would have been good as the third son taking Jamal's role. However, Lee might prefer to add a gay character to the show.

I agree with this, I really wanted Kingsley to survive and take Jamal's spot. Jamal can stay away with his husband enjoying their lives.  I think Kingsley could have added an interesting dynamic to the show.  It would have been cool to see him build a relationship with Luscious.

7 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

So Cookie is over Lucious. They could use a break from each other. I am sure they will eventually get back together. I hope that Damian Cross is back next season.

I like Damian Cross and I hope we see more of him next year.

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I can’t stand Cookie and all her antics. She doesn’t listen and blamed Lucious for Andre’s situation, like she was going to save him.  Ugh!  I can’t believe I actually feel bad for Lucious in this episode. He lost a son and almost lost Empire again.  Tracey is a truly horrible person and even if it meant losing Kingsley, I’m so glad she is off my screen for good. I could care less about Becky and old girl starting a label. I want that FBI lady to disappear and take Damon Cross with her.  I was bored with most of this season and only kept watching to find out who was in the casket. No surprise it was Kingsley. Very disappointed. 

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The season finale was a bit of a letdown once it became obvious that Kingsley was going to die and his heart would go to Andre. Next season’s dynamics would have been so much more interesting if they had kept him around. I wish someone else would have been Andre’s donor.  The show feels stale. I almost wish they would have ended it this season. 

Kingsley’s sudden meltdown felt weird after the last couple of episodes where he was being nice and trying to form relationships with his dad and brothers. After Andre’s mental issues and that of Luscious’s mom, it made me wonder if Kingsley had undiagnosed issues. Obviously, he would have inherited it from both sides. 

Becky and Giselle leaving to start their own label makes no sense with Luscious leaving (granted they didn’t know that at the time). Cookie started her own label last season and couldn’t make it work. How are these two going to be successful? 

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11 minutes ago, Angeleyes said:

The season finale was a bit of a letdown once it became obvious that Kingsley was going to die and his heart would go to Andre. Next season’s dynamics would have been so much more interesting if they had kept him around. I wish someone else would have been Andre’s donor.  The show feels stale. I almost wish they would have ended it this season. 

I actually think it would have been a good idea for Kingsley to bond with his family and for Jamal to come back feeling displaced. Jamal inherited Luscious' ruthlessness and it could have been explored more with a jealous Jamal trying to get rid of Kingsley.  Perhaps, his schemes would break up his marriage with Kai. Andre having cancer was just too much, his mental issues is enough to give him stories. 

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I'm done. Adios Empire, you were great in the beginning and then you were a victim of the pc and relevant police. 

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I'm disappointed that they killed off Kingsley. I thought he had a nice dynamic with Lucious and the rest of the Lyons. I honestly thought they were misdirecting us and would kill off Hakeem instead. He's barely been in the show this season.

Glad Andre survived. And now he and Teri are married. That should be interesting.

I love Cookie, but she was being unreasonable blaming Lucious. Carol was right: Lucious was trying to be there for Andre as best as he could. 

Becky and Giselle are great together. 

The cliffhanger was kinda meh. So now Lucious thinks Cookie slept with Damon. I mean the writers should have just had her sleep with him.

Edited by Gillian Rosh
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Empire used to be a guilty TV pleasure for me, but now I just feel guilty having wasted my time watching it.

The show as a whole just feels confused to me now, as if Lee has zero clue what the point is anymore or where to take these characters that he hasn’t already.

I felt like this episode just made the whole season pretty worthless as all potential growth and development got wiped out midway through.

Lucious reverted back to his out of control thuggish ways trying to avoid the Feds, Cookie turned back into Ms. Indecisive who isn’t sure she can be with Lucious yet again, Hakeem might as well be a plant now, he has no real screen presence anymore, Andre just barely skated by and oh yeah, has a baby boy on the way, and Jamel will apparently now be played by a text message thread on a damn iPhone, like the hell?

I thought Kingsley brought a lot to the table as a character and the actor was really good, but of course they just wasted him for no reason. Lucious could have gotten a heart easy, with his seedy connections and he wouldn’t have blinked an eye. In fact that would have been a nice way for the Fed lady to take a hike...just saying. 

But instead Kingsley had to bite it while that annoyance by the name of Maya gets to stick around?

Hell, why couldn’t her ass have been the donor? Then she would finally have been worth the effort to keep her around so long. 

And they implied that monster mother of Kingsley’s might also still be making appearances in the future. I didn’t think it could get any worse than the Demi Moore’s “I had nothing better to do” nurse fiasco, but Tracy is besting her big time.  

I really don’t think the show deserved a renewal, and I will be surprised if they make it to the end without being straight up cancelled. Something tells me the ratings are only going to get worse. 

Maybe writing both Star and Empire proved too much for Lee. He just doesn’t have enough vision/talent to carry two shows like them at the same time.

Edited by AnswersWanted
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Terrence, Taraji, Trai & AZ were FANTASTIC this episode.

It's sad Kingsley died (especially as he began truly bonding with the rest of his family) but the character has been an accident waiting to happen since the beginning.

Andre Royo does SO much with so little. He's Lucious only consigliere with any real staying power.

Candace & Carol are hilarious. "You're smelling a little ripe!"

 Wood Harris continues to be a compelling antagonist.

Giselle & Becky are adorable. Their label is gonna fail but at least they're gonna give it a shot.

Jamal was definitely missed (for the better and the worse) this episode. Hopefully Jussie will get his legal situation together so Jamal can return at some point next year.

Hakeem, Devon & Tiana deserve better.

White Tracy is INSANE.

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This episode pretty much confirmed to me that the writers had no idea what they were doing this season, especially with this casket mystery. From trying to make it seem like Diana Dubois would play a role, to Hakeem barley getting anything to do, the whole season seems unorganized. Looking back now, majority of the earlier flash forward hints don’t connect or come together at all.

1. Wasn’t Lucious supposed to be alone with the casket at some point? 

2. Becky was supposed to be there saying “you couldn’t have known” 

3. Detective Conway wasn’t the one who showed Lucious the pictures of Cookie and Damon.  The reason behind that was completely different as well. 

4. At some point, Lucious was supposed to be confused and covered in blood saying “What did I do?”

The cliffhanger sucked and I’m pretty sure that’s how the “twists” are going to be for the rest of the shows time. You can’t get much bigger than losing the entire company the show is based around. Season 5 should have been the final season and focused on them getting Empire back/ starting a new one and letting it end. 

With how boring and messy this season got, I’m honestly not interested in season (surprised that they got it) 6

Edited by Dramafan15
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Yes, I was thinking during this whole episode that the flash fowards didn't match the finale at all. Really disappointed in this season. If it wasn't the for talented cast, this show would have been cancelled this season. Everyone elevated the material from utter trash to watchable (but just barely). Taraji and Terrence especially deserve Emmys for pulling this season together the best they could. 

Lee, get yourself all the way together for next season, please and thank you. 

Edited by AgentRXS
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3 hours ago, Dramafan15 said:

This episode pretty much confirmed to me that the writers had no idea what they were doing this season, especially with this casket mystery. From trying to make it seem like Diana Dubois would play a role, to Hakeem barley getting anything to do, the whole season seems unorganized. Looking back now, majority of the earlier flash forward hints don’t connect or come together at all.

1. Wasn’t Lucious supposed to be alone with the casket at some point? 

2. Becky was supposed to be there saying “you couldn’t have known” 

3. Detective Conway wasn’t the one who showed Lucious the pictures of Cookie and Damon.  The reason behind that was completely different as well. 

4. At some point, Lucious was supposed to be confused and covered in blood saying “What did I do?”

The cliffhanger sucked and I’m pretty sure that’s how the “twists” are going to be for the rest of the shows time. You can’t get much bigger than losing the entire company the show is based around. Season 5 should have been the final season and focused on them getting Empire back/ starting a new one and letting it end. 

With how boring and messy this season got, I’m honestly not interested in season (surprised that they got it) 6

Preach. 

It was so blatantly obvious to me as well that they'd reshot the funeral and stuck Kingsley in that casket last minute.

Why not just put Lucious' mother in there then? The person in the casket didn't have to have anything to do with Andre's need for a heart. They easily could have been two separate issues.

I am still confused about the so called 6 month jump they mentioned earlier as well. How could the funeral suddenly happen if it wasn't set until 6 months after the current events? That was such a lazy, uncaring move to me on the writers' part. 

I really believe before Jussie lost his mind, the original plan was for Andre to die. For some reason the show just never did much with Trai beyond making him kill or go crazy. They figured he could be the sacrificial Lyon cub. 

And the fact that they did change the ending to kill off Kingsley? Where's the point in that since by then they knew Jussie was probably going to be out of commission indefinitely. 

Keeping Kingsley meant the 3 brothers angle would remain intact. Now it's just Hakeem who hasn't grown up and doesn't get anything important to do, and Andre who is now engaged and having a baby, not much can go down there unless they want to have the baby not make it, again, or it's revealed what he did while in prison to get Terri's son out or something and then what? Andre has been the suffering martyr for too long. 

I am just not feeling anything that could happen in the next season will help things. Lee already played the "let's time travel ahead to the future" card and nothing came of it. I think the show is honestly out of options and ideas. 

I have really loved some of the actors' talent and work over the years, but I just think that the shark has officially been jumped.

This season could have been a richly packed and wonderful farewell for the show: Lucious and Cookie should have been the ones having that grand ball wedding as a way to celebrate their come back and everlasting love. Jamel and Kai could have still gotten engaged, as well as Andee and Terri, and Hakeem could have finally stepped up, grown up, and made a family with Tianna and their babies. Maybe Lucious could have passed the regins of Empire on to Kingsley, as his other three boys had figured out they had other lives to live outside of the business, but Kingsley had never had the Lyon name or legacy so passing him the keys to the kingdom would have solidified him as the true eldest and first born son. 

But now we'll never know what could have been and I think they have squandered the opportunity to have a decently fulfilling ending now. 

Edited by AnswersWanted
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10 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Glad Andre survived. And now he and Teri are married. That should be interesting

It'll be really interesting to see their dynamic next season. With the family in disarray, Giselle & Becky leaving, his health issues and Teri's pregnancy, Andre's gonna have his work cut out for him, keeping Empire afloat. That likely won't sit well with Teri who will likely demand he cut back his involvement in the company for his own good.

It will also be interesting to see how much Hakeem matures next season. He's always been the runt of the litter, but he's also had a solid business sense.

Edited by Dee
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When Lucious had the casket opened, my first thought was “where did Kingsley shoot himself?”  I assumed head by the blood splatter but apparently not; everything was intact and I don’t think funeral homes are that good at reconstruction.  Couldn’t have been chest or no heart for transfer. Maybe he shot himself in the foot!?

Was there any connection between what the Lyons were doing and that concert? Was that the tour? Do I care?

The show was fun evening soap opera for a couple of years but now I’m just watching  out of habit.

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50 minutes ago, CatWarmer said:

..... “where did Kingsley shoot himself?”  I assumed head by the blood splatter but apparently not; everything was intact and I don’t think funeral homes are that good at reconstruction.  Couldn’t have been chest or no heart for transfer. Maybe he shot himself in the foot!?

Absolutely rolling over here at this foot comment. BWAHAHAHAHA! 

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18 hours ago, Angeleyes said:

Kingsley’s sudden meltdown felt weird after the last couple of episodes where he was being nice and trying to form relationships with his dad and brothers.

It didn't feel weird to me.

Jeff had slowly making progress with the Lyons over the back nine episodes, only to have his mom (who he now knows is an unreliable narrator) abandon him and Lucious gruffly rebuke him (albeit under stress).

He's a kid who always desired a father who no longer felt he belonged anywhere. When he was with White Tracy he could position Lucious as the villain in his life. But spending time with Lucious, individually and alongside the rest of the family, he realizes that life isn't that simple.

The real tragedy is that Jeff never gave himself the opportunity to really know his family before he made such a rash decision.

Edited by Dee
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On 5/8/2019 at 10:32 PM, Angeleyes said:

Becky and Giselle leaving to start their own label makes no sense with Luscious leaving (granted they didn’t know that at the time). Cookie started her own label last season and couldn’t make it work. How are these two going to be successful? 

It makes sense from the perspective of having a storyline every year about a rival record label with a personal connection to Lucious. Becky and Giselle must have been next in the rotation.

We must also have either an unexpected pregnancy or a child we didn’t know about.

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I agree that it sucks that Kingsley died, he could have added an interesting dynamic to the show, especially with Jamal probably being out of here soon. What if Jamal came back for an episode, and felt like he was replaced? Would he have ever bonded with his brothers or Cookie? He inherited Luciouses ruthlessness, so how would that translate into them being on the same team? But as soon as we found out he was Luciouses son, I figured he would be the one in the coffin, and when Andre needed a new heart, that just confirmed it. If a good Empire story should be anything, it should not be predictable.

Also, they really did a good job covering that bullet hole in his head for the funeral, huh?

Andre and Terri being married should be interesting, especially as she hasn't really met "bad" Andre very much. Will she approve of him occasionally holding people out of windows?

Becky and Giselle opening their own label will certainly be super ridiculous and improbable, even by this shows standards, but the two of them are so much fun together, I can still get behind it.

So Cookie and Lucious are done for now? It will probably stick for a few episodes next season, but not much longer. The two of them always end up pulling each other into each others orbit, no matter how much they piss each other off. I do hope that Damon Cross comes back, he is an interesting bad guy, like the guy who is even more Lucious than Lucious is. But dont let Cookie rebound with him please!

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Going by the consensus on here, Lee Daniels and his writers missed a great opportunity to integrate Kingsley as a Lyon while writing out Jamal indefinitely.  It reminded me of Charmed, where an obscure plot point in the early seasons gave the writers a way to write out Shannen's Prue and bringing in Paige a long lost sister into the show.  It allowed the sisterly dynamic to continue on the show. Lee could have done the same thing with Kingsley regarding Andre and Hakeem as they deal with their new brother who is just like their dad. Cookie could have even bonded with him as well, in spite of her misgivings. Eventually, Jamal could have come back for a short visit and even more drama could have ensued. Also, more could have been done to explore Kingsley as a character.  What a waste!

Edited by Apprentice79
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There's still plenty more opportunities for more long lost Lucious spawn to appear.

Simone over on Star, for instance....

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I still haven't watched this episode. It used to be appointment viewing for me, but now I can let weeks pile up on the PVR. I don't even mind if I get spoiled.

What a shame. This show used to be so much soapy fun!

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I really wished they would have changed the ending, they had time to write Jamal out and throw a wedding in there. They could have figured out a way from killing Kingsley.

I also for some reason is siding with Lucious over Cookie, she seems worse than him with her cheating and behaviour this ending of the season.

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9 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Going by the consensus on here, Lee Daniels and his writers missed a great opportunity to integrate Kingsley as a Lyon while writing out Jamal indefinitely.  It reminded me of Charmed, where an obscure plot point in the early seasons gave the writers a way to write out Shannen's Prue and bringing in Paige a long lost sister into the show.  It allowed the sisterly dynamic to continue on the show. Lee could have done the same thing with Kingsley regarding Andre and Hakeem as they deal with their new brother who is just like their dad. Cookie could have even bonded with him as well, in spite of her misgivings. Eventually, Jamal could have come back for a short visit and even more drama could have ensued. Also, more could have been done to explore Kingsley as a character.  What a waste!

I couldn't agree more. 

I really don't understand why they were so willing to toss away the Lyon brothers 3 angle to the show. 

The shift would have been fairly simple, since Jamal was the middle son, Andre would take that slot, Hakeem would remain the youngest, and Kingsley would be the first born.

I especially think A.Z. was worth keeping for his acting. This show has had a lot of acting misses over the years, imho, but he managed to keep up with the leads very well. 

I just think the show took a cheap way out, picking an unnecessary scapegoat just so they could keep Jamal around, even if technically he can't and won't be. Just a dumb move on their part, imo, and there's been plenty of them this season. 

Kingsley dies but Maya lives to whine and annoy another day. I just can't. 

Edited by AnswersWanted
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I agree with all who have said Kingsley would have been good to keep around next season. As much as I didn't enjoy him in the first half of the season, once he made it known he was a Lyon, I saw a lot more potential. And with this show constantly rehashing the same familial mistrust and shifting of alliances issues, I really would have welcomed Kingsley around to at least give those recurring issues some different dynamics.

Honestly, once the show established Hakeem bounced back enough from his gunshot wounds, he had the same amount and depth of storyline as Chet Hanks. Chet Hanks!!!  Come on, show! And to add insult to injury, the storylines were with the same peripheral characters as Chet like Tiana and Maya!

I have nothing to say about the casket reveal except that it had a way bigger storyline than Hakeem and it turned out to be just as terrible as Maya.

One of the only ways this show could actually surprise me is if Thirsty turned on the Lyons. You'll have to pry his velour wardrobe from his cold dead hands first!  (I don't know what material his clothes are made out of, but I'm calling it aubergine velour.)

I sincerely hope the showrunners and writers' room approach this next season as its last and reallllly think about what's going to be satisfying for viewers to see, not stupid conflicts and stupid characters and the same old relationship problems. And if budget is part of the reason so much of the music is pretty forgettable now, I'd be 100% fine if they had less music, but when they did, it was more on the level of season 1 and 2.

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This show has years plenty of years left.

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I don't know about  the show having many years left. Star just got cancelled. I think the show's future is contingent upon Terrence and Taraji wanting to continue the series.  Taraji works consistently with her projects and she has said that Cookie takes a lot out of her. I have no doubt that Terrence Trai and Bryshere will work as well when the show is done.  Trai in particular was wasted on the show. He is gorgeous, talented and he could sing. Lee had no idea what to do with him other than misery and angst.  I really liked Jamal but he got most of the attention. Even Jamal never realized his full potential as a mini Luscious. 

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I am actually surprised Star lasted for as long as it did. It just never resonated with me, the main characters were all too damn annoying, and far too few could actually act, imo. 

Empire got lucky to get renewed because it’s ratings aren’t great but they get the job done for now, especially for Fox on a slow Wednesday night. However, viewership has been in a fairly steady decline over the seasons, the numbers are clear on that. That’s why some (me) were fully convinced this would turn out to be the last season; they hit all time lows this season in fact, not to mention the Jussie fiasco. 

I think the only reason a good number of people tuned into the finale was to see what was going to happen. Would the show actually do away with Jamal or Andre? And of course they went with neither option. They had interest peaked over the unknown, but now that they showed their hand, I think there’ll be little improvement for next season.

It’s been too much of the same old same, a lot of rinse and repeat storylines and plots. 

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Empire's showrunner blew a great opportunity to keep AZ Kelsey on the show.  The characters Jeff and Tracy Kingsley had so many layers.  I found both characters and actors compelling to watch.  Both, have so many stories left to tell.   And it's unfortunate that Mahoney sucks at his job and took the predictable out by killing off a great character like Jeff Kingsley.  I have to give a major shout out to Amanda Detmer.  She played that part.  Tracy is such a disgusting character. But, I couldn't look away from her.  The chemistry between Ms. Detmer's character Tracy and Mr. Howard's Lucious was incredible to watch.  You could actually feel the tension between them.  I would love to see Tracy Kingsley back for season 6.   

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A main Lyon dying and having Kingsley be the replacement (you know, actually change up the show) is the only reason I would be excited for season six. As it stands.....

1. Empire (the main focal point of the show) got taken away from them, and they had to start from scratch, though they managed to (unnecessarily) get it back. 

2. Lucious and Cookie re-married. 

3. Andre got married and is about to become a father. 

4. Jamal got married and the character obviously doesn’t want to be in the family business anymore, so he could easily leave with Kai forever. 

5. The idea box has run out for Hakeem, so he gets scraps whenever the writers remember he’s a character.

6. Becky and Gisele are starting a label. 

So why wasn’t this the final season again? Why should I care about the Feds being after Empire (again?) Why should I care about Lucious and Cookie breaking up (again) when they’re going to get back together? 

Edited by Dramafan15
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On 5/11/2019 at 11:20 PM, Dramafan15 said:

A main Lyon dying and having Kingsley be the replacement (you know, actually change up the show) is the only reason I would be excited for season six. As it stands.....

1. Empire (the main focal point of the show) got taken away from them, and they had to start from scratch, though they managed to (unnecessarily) get it back. 

2. Lucious and Cookie re-married. 

3. Andre got married and is about to become a father. 

4. Jamal got married and the character obviously doesn’t want to be in the family business anymore, so he could easily leave with Kai forever. 

5. The idea box has run out for Hakeem, so he gets scraps whenever the writers remember he’s a character.

6. Becky and Gisele are starting a label. 

So why wasn’t this the final season again? Why should I care about the Feds being after Empire (again?) Why should I care about Lucious and Cookie breaking up (again) when they’re going to get back together? 

Tell the truth.

So many bad decisions were made for this season. This should have been the wrap up all loose ends, give the Lyons a proper sendoff season. They had already jumped ahead to the future so why waste anymore time, just take the show out on as high a note as possible. 

I don’t understand why some people decide to drag a show to its’ tragic death instead of just ending it when it feels right or makes the most sense to. Even if some don’t like it or agree, it’s better to leave them wanting more as the old saying goes. 

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So I must be the only one who really enjoyed the back half of this season.  I hadn't watched any of the last 10 episodes and then I binged them all over 2 nights.  Even I was surprised at how good it was and how drawn in I was.

I haven't kept up with the news at all about this show so I really thought that Andre was a goner.  I really thought he'd be killed off.

I figured out in the finale that Kingsley would end up in the casket and his heart going to Andre.  I found his story very compelling and wish they could have found a way to keep him on the show - having him bond with Andre and Keem and then Jamal coming back to feeling displaced wouldv'e been great.

The actors on this show truly, truly brought it - I was in a shambles for the last 3 episodes - crying constantly, etc..

I think when you don't dissect this show to death and just watch it in a fast binge like I did, it hangs together very well... The last 4 episodes for me were amazing - and the twists did not go how I was thinking they'd go at all.

I hope the show doesn't get canceled.  After the whole jussie thing, I couldn't bring myself to watch and boy do I feel stupid now - because that was some damn good television.

It was definitely heavy on the dramatic side and less of a guilty pleasure - but that didn't make it any less good.

My only sadness is that Kingsley is gone.  I liked him and wanted to see a redemption arc.

I thought Cookie/Lucious was AMAZING and Andre/Terri and that whole cancer/heart storyline ripped my heart out.

I'm still in a shambles with my heart in my throat.

So - sorry to all the folks who are over Empire - but I'm still with it.  LOVE it and the show has gotten SO much better than season one with it's burn through plots and paper thin characterizations (apart from the main Lyons).

I don't know if the writers changed, but that's made this show better imo.  All of the "Tyler Perry-esque" plotlines?  Gone.  Now we have nuance where there was once dramatics and plot drivenness.  Again - my ONLY beef is with Kingsley being gone.

Edited by phoenics
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On 5/13/2019 at 11:25 AM, Jennabelle88 said:

According to Wiki, Empire has been canceled.

Yes.  Season 6 will be their last season.    

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On 5/17/2019 at 10:06 PM, phoenics said:

So I must be the only one who really enjoyed the back half of this season.  I hadn't watched any of the last 10 episodes and then I binged them all over 2 nights.  Even I was surprised at how good it was and how drawn in I was.

I haven't kept up with the news at all about this show so I really thought that Andre was a goner.  I really thought he'd be killed off.

I figured out in the finale that Kingsley would end up in the casket and his heart going to Andre.  I found his story very compelling and wish they could have found a way to keep him on the show - having him bond with Andre and Keem and then Jamal coming back to feeling displaced wouldv'e been great.

The actors on this show truly, truly brought it - I was in a shambles for the last 3 episodes - crying constantly, etc..

I think when you don't dissect this show to death and just watch it in a fast binge like I did, it hangs together very well... The last 4 episodes for me were amazing - and the twists did not go how I was thinking they'd go at all.

I hope the show doesn't get canceled.  After the whole jussie thing, I couldn't bring myself to watch and boy do I feel stupid now - because that was some damn good television.

It was definitely heavy on the dramatic side and less of a guilty pleasure - but that didn't make it any less good.

My only sadness is that Kingsley is gone.  I liked him and wanted to see a redemption arc.

I thought Cookie/Lucious was AMAZING and Andre/Terri and that whole cancer/heart storyline ripped my heart out.

I'm still in a shambles with my heart in my throat.

So - sorry to all the folks who are over Empire - but I'm still with it.  LOVE it and the show has gotten SO much better than season one with it's burn through plots and paper thin characterizations (apart from the main Lyons).

I don't know if the writers changed, but that's made this show better imo.  All of the "Tyler Perry-esque" plotlines?  Gone.  Now we have nuance where there was once dramatics and plot drivenness.  Again - my ONLY beef is with Kingsley being gone.

Pretty much!

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On May 11, 2019 at 8:34 AM, Apprentice79 said:

I don't know about  the show having many years left. Star just got cancelled. I think the show's future is contingent upon Terrence and Taraji wanting to continue the series.  Taraji works consistently with her projects and she has said that Cookie takes a lot out of her. I have no doubt that Terrence Trai and Bryshere will work as well when the show is done.  Trai in particular was wasted on the show. He is gorgeous, talented and he could sing. Lee had no idea what to do with him other than misery and angst.  I really liked Jamal but he got most of the attention. Even Jamal never realized his full potential as a mini Luscious. 

 I agree with you. What do you think about Serayah's (Tiana) acting? And do you think she will have steady work as an actress after Empire is over? The reason I ask this is because I think Serayah is a good actress, and she's only had two other acting roles besides Empire and Tiana. But the majority of comments I read on YouTube (of all places,) is that she can't act. What do you think?

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19 hours ago, journalism16 said:

 I agree with you. What do you think about Serayah's (Tiana) acting? And do you think she will have steady work as an actress after Empire is over? The reason I ask this is because I think Serayah is a good actress, and she's only had two other acting roles besides Empire and Tiana. But the majority of comments I read on YouTube (of all places,) is that she can't act. What do you think?

She is a hit and miss. I think she is charismatic, beautiful with potential. If she invests in acting classes and studies her craft, she may have a future. I could see Lee Daniels working with her again. He hired Gabourey, put her on Empire after having worked with her on Precious. 

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1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

She is a hit and miss. I think she is charismatic, beautiful with potential. If she invests in acting classes and studies her craft, she may have a future. I could see Lee Daniels working with her again. He hired Gabourey, put her on Empire after having worked with her on Precious. 

 I agree with you, I think she may have a future if she takes acting classes, and I see Lee working with her again as well. Gabby is doing great, and even though I didn't see Precious, (I've seen it recently,) but I thought she did well in that movie.

1 hour ago, Dee said:

I like Serayah, but I really wish Lee's original choice (Ryan Destiny) would've gotten the part.

I agree with you. I never knew about Ryan Destiny though.

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