S14.E20: Moriah

[ahrtee]

3 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I could be wrong, but that was the impression that I got: that there was going to have to be a decision by someone as to who was going to take Jack in the afterlife.

I don't expect Jack to stay in the afterlife more than 10 minutes into the new season.  

[Castiels Cat]

3 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Death did say that he would reap God.

Original Death, and Billie are both concerned with maintaining the natural order of things, they want balance in the universe.  Chuck just took a chainsaw to all of that.  I'm guessing that Billie, the Empty, and Jack are going to team up.

Yes obviously. It's just folks are over Jack.

[BabySpinach]

One more thing I actually liked: Dean's unshakable self-assurance and will on full display. It kind of feels like an inevitable escalation now, with his consistent telling of powerful beings to go screw themselves all building up to standing his ground in front of God himself.

It was pretty interesting that Chuck was so focused on Dean and the role he "had" to play. He was the lynchpin of Chuck's intended narrative. And as the representation of free will, Dean's refusal to play along also broke the entire story apart. I guess I should be grateful that Dabb gives us even this much in subtext. Still doesn't come close to making up for Michael!Dean, though.

[AwesomO4000]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

I don't expect Jack to stay in the afterlife more than 10 minutes into the new season.  

You're probably right, but I would rather he stayed "dead" - though like say up in heaven, creating havoc there. A secret weapon on the heaven front rather than down on earth.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

And it looks like The Empty may be with the Winchesters.  We've got a Jack, Billie, and Empty teamup coming.  Wonder if they bring back some past characters like Bela, Benny, Ellen, Rufus, Charlie, Jo, and Ash to help out.  It's going to be an all hands on deck situation

I wondered if they were getting all the souls out of hell, maybe we'll get all the souls out of heaven, too, for The Final Battle.  (And maybe that's Chuck's idea--the big fight of good vs. evil all over again...*sigh*)

[Castiels Cat]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

I wondered if they were getting all the souls out of hell, maybe we'll get all the souls out of heaven, too, for The Final Battle.  (And maybe that's Chuck's idea--the big fight of good vs. evil all over again...*sigh*)

Maybe Dean will be Michael and burn the world to kill Chuck Because it is the only way. Chuck had to go...lol.

I like theTeam Dean-Amara concept too.

I need to rewatch. I knew there would be a twist and and a con.

I just cannot believe Michael was dropped after Billie and Dean's books. I guess the decision to cancel the show must have caused a major revision in that storyline.

I do not think they gave Jack enough time to bounce back from what he did or said re as realistically but I  totally buy Chuck as a villain too. I never liked him.

I am not sure what we will get in 15 however.

We saw ghosts and zombies... what else... heaven, hell and the empty will open up too... it will be a party of all the favorites. That is the worst way to end things. The easiest way to end things.

IDK. It is not really a plan

[Lastcall]

3 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I wondered if they were getting all the souls out of hell, maybe we'll get all the souls out of heaven, too, for The Final Battle.  (And maybe that's Chuck's idea--the big fight of good vs. evil all over again...*sigh*)

Given the comments from JDM and Lauren Cohen about coming back for the end, I could see a finale battle with John, Mary, Real Bobby, Ellen, Jo...hell everyone having a finale epic battle against all of hell. I just don’t know how they could afford it.

[Macbeth]

Zombies?  Really show?  Even this detail you can't get right. The boys are holding iron - why?  Your S5 zombies moved really fast and could only be killed by a bullet to the head.   I know details. 

And your showing zombies on your season finale 3 days before the epic battle of zombies v humans on Game of Thrones. You know the show that about a billion people watch. 

Even The Walking Dead, which has creatively gone astray, does zombies a thousand times better than you. 

[Bergamot]

Quote

I'm guessing that Billie, the Empty, and Jack are going to team up.

Of course, who can't see that coming?  Silly of me to think that the show's final season would focus on anyone else.

33 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Another random thought....anyone want to place bets that the empty will release his own army led by Mark Pellegrino?

LOL, no doubt! Or else the Empty will be played by Mark Pellegrino. Because heaven forbid that we should have to go through the season without him!

[Myrelle]

28 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

I would love it if Amara came back, particularly since all they need to do is drive to Reno, but she would only appear so Chuck could kill her. Then he could twirl his mustache and say Season 11 was a trick and he was fake dying. Then Jack can kill him in the series finale without any repercussions. 

Thats all too over complicated though. I was dead wrong about Angel Zombies...just plain zombies.  I expect Chuck to appear in the first two minutes of 15x1 and say “See! This is what happens if you don’t listen too me”. Then reset everything and give them 19 episodes to think it over.

Sounds exactly like a Dabb-penned premiere to me. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Calling it now. To keep balance in the universe,  Jack will become the new God after killing Chuck.

Sam, try not to shoot this one, k? 

Jensen,  you a scary mofo when you wanna be.

Michael!Dean, we hardly knew ye, but you'll go down as the most wasted potential in the history of the show. Oh, and you were right about Dad, he is a dick.

That's all I got.

Edited April 26, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Kanner]

I am not necessarily happy Jack is dead but I am glad that story arc is over. I know he will probably come back but I see things probably being different. 

Dean is MY hero. I had no issue with his stance on Jack (even though I never believed he would go through with it). Dean and the guitar was so awesome. I am so glad he told Chuck to go to hell. Chuck lost points with me after He told Dean to stop projecting Dean’s daddy issues on to Him.

So I am surprised but not shocked that the show went Evil God. And I am only surprised because I do think it is ballsy to have God be evil. I actually thought Chuck was going to turn out to be The Empty in disguise. 

Speaking of The Empty - is Cas’ deal still in effect?

I hear Sam’s point but that is what always gets the boys in trouble. They save each other and create a different mess. 

I must say, I am interested in where this going. Is everything undone? Cas said souls from Hell, what about Purgatory?

[Kanner]

I am also glad Jack told Dean he understood at the end. Because Jack was definitely on board with ending Dean when Michael was a thing because that would have been what Dean wanted. 

[Lastcall]

More pettiness, you’re telling me that Sam and Dean are completely weaponless and have to resort to rusted iron spears? What about the 1911 that’s been welded to Dean since season 1? What about the Angel blades they have on their belts? What about the arsenal Dean usually has hidden under his clothes? You say he only needed the gun because it’s all that would work. Fine. What’s Sam’s excuse? He went to this graveyard with nothing. What, the thousand Zombies surrounding them wasn’t a big enough threat? You had to hobble them with junk weapons. Seriously?

Edited April 26, 2019 by Lastcall

[TheGreenKnight]

I hope more than monsters were brought back to life… I definitely want Bobby to back in a central role at least, for the final season. There’s a great deal of other characters I’d like to see again: Amara, Charlie, Ellen and Jo, Crowley, Death, Benny, Samandriel, Balthazar, Meg, Kevin and his mom, Anna, Becky, Rufus, Henry Winchester, the Banes twins, Gabriel, maybe even Ruby and various antagonist characters again. Of course I hope Rowena continues to appear, too.

Edited April 26, 2019 by TheGreenKnight

[Commando Cody]

I'm disappointed that they had to throw in some crap about the president. I'm not interested in their political views, I just want to watch a TV show. Although I was kind of surprised that they went with the conspiracy of the queen of England being a reptile. 

When I saw Chuck wearing that red suit, I wasn't sure it was Chuck. I thought it was someone pretending to be God. I assumed since his suit was red it was probably Lucifer.  

Was that a red Herringbone suit Chuck was wearing? 

I hope season 15 is a strong one. I hate to see this show fizzle out because of terrible writing, plots and story arcs. 

The writers haven't been too creative in the last seasons. If Chuck is going to be the big bad next season, it probably is that black and white. 

[catrox14]

What the fuck was that shit?

Seriously. 

I would take the marionette fight finale over that shit.

So many questions.

How did Sam jump from Chuck wants Dean to kill Jack to Chuck was playing us ALL ALONG!!!? What? How did he get there from here.....RME

Why didn't Dean have the conversation with Chuck about Michael's motives....I mean it's not like Michael was wearing Dean at the FUCKING TIME!! 

Why bring up Michael at all other than just another fuck you to Dean's SL with Michael.  Well, fuck you Dabb.

I guess Dabb is Chuck in that he didn't get a spinoff, he didn't what he wanted so he just destroyed 14 years of work for the boys.  It's so stupid. 

Sigh.....

[Casseiopeia]

Wait...what?

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Casseiopeia said:

Wait...what?

Exactly.  Also,

WHY???

[Casseiopeia]

Who else expected Chuck to suddenly morph into Metatron?  

[ahrtee]

Just now, Casseiopeia said:

Who else expected Chuck to suddenly morph into Metatron?  

Actually, I was expecting Pellegrino.

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, Kanner said:

So I am surprised but not shocked that the show went Evil God. And I am only surprised because I do think it is ballsy to have God be evil. I actually thought Chuck was going to turn out to be The Empty in disguise. 

And it's been hinted at the show's entire run.  God just abandons everybody leaving the angels in charge, doesn't come back when the apocalypse is happening, has the Winchesters clean up his mess, locked away Amara, launched Metatron out of the bar when Metatron called Chuck on his shit, and didn't do anything to stop all the shit that was going down the last couple of years.

They've hinted the entire time that Chuck was a petty asshole, and this episode was them letting everybody know that Chuck is beyond a petty asshole.

[Casseiopeia]

3 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Actually, I was expecting Pellegrino.

When Chuck went on and on and on about writing stories and how Dean wasn't playing his part all I could picture was Metatron

[Ninamags]

2 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

When Chuck went on and on and on about writing stories and how Dean wasn't playing his part all I could picture was Metatron

I thought of Gabriel. He did tell the boys to play their parts. 

[ahrtee]

5 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

When Chuck went on and on and on about writing stories and how Dean wasn't playing his part all I could picture was Metatron

I just thought Pellegrino because *everyone* morphs into him eventually.  And he hadn't shown up yet this ep.

[Myrelle]

I can't see the last season being anything more than the last three have been with Dabb in charge and even if the guys are in the writing room.

Dabb has to go as showrunner or Supernatural is over already, IMO.

[Casseiopeia]

34 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

What the fuck was that shit?

Seriously. 

I would take the marionette fight finale over that shit.

So many questions.

How did Sam jump from Chuck wants Dean to kill Jack to Chuck was playing us ALL ALONG!!!? What? How did he get there from here.....RME

Why didn't Dean have the conversation with Chuck about Michael's motives....I mean it's not like Michael was wearing Dean at the FUCKING TIME!! 

Why bring up Michael at all other than just another fuck you to Dean's SL with Michael.  Well, fuck you Dabb.

I guess Dabb is Chuck in that he didn't get a spinoff, he didn't what he wanted so he just destroyed 14 years of work for the boys.  It's so stupid. 

Sigh.....

[ahrtee]

13 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I can't see the last season being anything more than the last three have been with Dabb in charge and even if the guys are in the writing room.

Dabb has to go as showrunner or Supernatural is over already, IMO.

This is probably wishful thinking on my part, but I kept thinking that this was like a round robin story where the authors try to end their section with something impossible for the next author to write his way out of. 

Leaving  the heroes surrounded by zombies with no weapons seems like dabb chortling to himself, saying something like, "fire me, will you? Ok, let's see you get your way out of this!"😒

[Lastcall]

16 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I can't see the last season being anything more than the last three have been with Dabb in charge and even if the guys are in the writing room.

Dabb has to go as showrunner or Supernatural is over already, IMO.

I agree, every cliffhanger since Dabb took over has led to disaster including last years Michael cliffhanger that killed the show for good. What they have set up profoundly changes the nature of this show. This is the Rapture a true Walking Dead situation. All the evil ghosts and all of hells demons walking the earth (I’m going to assume the Azmodeus demons too). Unless they finger snap this real quick, next year will be a depressing mess. We are talking BILLIONS dead and a dozen MOTW kills of their greatest hits isn’t going to mean a thing. There is NO way Dabb can pull this off and to make things worse,no matter what we imagine, it will be lamer.

[Lastcall]

5 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

This is probably wishful thinking on my part, but I kept thinking that this was like a round robin story where the authors try to end their section with something impossible for the next author to write his way out of. 

Leaving  the heroes surrounded by zombies with no weapons seems like dabb chortling to himself, saying something like, "fire me, will you? Ok, let's see you get your way out of this!"😒

I would agree except if he had been fired then they wouldn’t have teed up the Nougat Messiah.

[heisenberg]

2 hours ago, ZennyKenny said:

bonus is they team up with Amara to do it.

A couple of seasons ago we saw a mice escaping a room after a character got killed.  Since there is a reset I would like to see that mice coming back to be...  Crowley.

Edited April 26, 2019 by heisenberg

[ahrtee]

2 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

I would agree except if he had been fired then they wouldn’t have teed up the Nougat Messiah.

Well, he did kill him.😉  

[crowsworks]

 

 

 

5 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I'm going to imagine that Amara did something to him or had some kind of bad influence on him.

Amara really likes Dean. I hope she sticks Chuck on a perpetual book signing tour and takes over. She couldn't do worse. 

[ukgirl71]

I haven’t seen the episode, or any of the clips so far (heck, in the UK we haven’t even started season 14), but this sounds more than a bit crap.

[Female83]

I hated that they made Chuck the baddie as well as putting politics in the first 15 or so min of the finale. 

[starfishka]

I love that song from Motorhead.

[juppschmitz]

Well, I'm just glad we can safely blame Sam for pissing off Chuck so much that he snapped. At least Dean stuck with "go to hell"...

(Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only going by the ew recap which was, I have to say, physically painful to read.)

[juppschmitz]

Dear Chuck, please accept that no matter what all those twitter/tumblr teen hordes would have you believe, Dean is NOT Jack's father.

Your own son, Lucifer, is Jack's father, making Jack your grandson.

Thxbye

[justmehere]

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Michael!Dean, we hardly knew ye, but you'll go down as the most wasted potential in the history of the show.

Except maybe Demon!Dean.

[Triskan]

Kinda baffled to see all the hatred there... I personally loved it.

Making God an asshole was ballsy and very welcome... but in the same time, you have to put it into perspective : he's a writer, I am a writer, and we all know us writers like to make our characters suffer.

Any fictional character would love to tear a new asshole to his creator, so it's legit and offers some philosophical ramifications I'm really curious to see them tackle next year. 

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, juppschmitz said:

Well, I'm just glad we can safely blame Sam for pissing off Chuck so much that he snapped. At least Dean stuck with "go to hell"...

(Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only going by the ew recap which was, I have to say, physically painful to read.)

Dean, Sam, and Castiel are all to blame for pissing off Chuck.  They all said "Screw you" to Chuck's writing, and wouldn't follow what he wanted them to do.

1 hour ago, juppschmitz said:

Dear Chuck, please accept that no matter what all those twitter/tumblr teen hordes would have you believe, Dean is NOT Jack's father.

Your own son, Lucifer, is Jack's father, making Jack your grandson.

Thxbye

Yeah, Jack isn't Dean's son.  He's Sam and Dean's little brother.

[juppschmitz]

3 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Yeah, Jack isn't Dean's son.  He's Sam and Dean's little brother.

What Sam and Dean's parents are Lucifer and Kelly Kline now? Or Jack's parents were really John and Mary Winchester?

Looks like I missed more than I thought.

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

Dean, Sam, and Castiel are all to blame for pissing off Chuck.  They all said "Screw you" to Chuck's writing, and wouldn't follow what he wanted them to do.

Yeah, Jack isn't Dean's son.  He's Sam and Dean's little brother.

Sam shot Chuck which pissed him off. Please take the whitewash somewhere else. It was a short-sighted stupid move. Killing God ends everything... guaranteed. Pissing God off isn't great either.

Apparently neither is pissing off your writers.

[Bergamot]

2 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

Well, I'm just glad we can safely blame Sam for pissing off Chuck so much that he snapped. At least Dean stuck with "go to hell"...

(Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only going by the ew recap which was, I have to say, physically painful to read.)

Well, sort of. When Dean refuses to kill Jack, Chuck says "All, right, have it your way" and snaps his fingers to burn Jack to a crisp. Dean says "Stop it!" and starts forward, only to have Chuck flick a hand and send him flying through the air. Chuck then turns away and starts to leave; it is only after Sam picks up the magic gun and tries to kill Chuck with it that Chuck loses his temper and announces that "The story is over".

I think it probably should have been evident that Chuck would not make a gun that could be used against himself. But setting that aside, the point had been made, both with Amara and earlier in this episode, that ending Chuck would end the whole world. Apparently Sam thought that destroying the universe was worth it to save Jack. However, it is entirely possible that the rest of the world might not have appreciated being sacrificed, without a second thought, for the Nougatbaby. Personally, if I had been there and had been given a vote, I would have given a thumbs down to being sacrificed, along with everyone else in creation, for their precious Jack.

Since I had trouble getting emotionally involved in this episode -- like I said, it basically left me cold -- I don't know how important all this is to me. Maybe Dean would have been the one to pick up the gun and fire it if he hadn't just flown headfirst into a tombstone. I admit though that I am still glad to he wasn't the one to do it.

[Castiels Cat]

8 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

One more thing I actually liked: Dean's unshakable self-assurance and will on full display. It kind of feels like an inevitable escalation now, with his consistent telling of powerful beings to go screw themselves all building up to standing his ground in front of God himself.

It was pretty interesting that Chuck was so focused on Dean and the role he "had" to play. He was the lynchpin of Chuck's intended narrative. And as the representation of free will, Dean's refusal to play along also broke the entire story apart. I guess I should be grateful that Dabb gives us even this much in subtext. Still doesn't come close to making up for Michael!Dean, though.

I soooooo agree. I was struck by this too. And if anyone should have known that Dean would change his story it would be Chuck. Hell even Metatron knew he had to literally enter the story  and stab Dean in the heart with gleeful precision to make sure Dean did what was needed and died on time. 

I will admit earlier this season when Dean abandoned his free will to Billie's books it felt wrong  I am loads of angry over that dropped Michael-Dean storyline. 

I have never bought into the 5hey always drop Dean's storyline schtick. Kripkenever intended Dean to get the leas storyline and frankly I never thought Dean would chose to say yes that way because of free will and Sam. The set-up was wrong. As it was Chuck says that Dean changes the story by showing up at Stull that say. That is pretty powerful. He is the lone human among virtual gods being beaten to death.

And he had the "lead" storyline in seasons 6-7 it just wasn't as exciting as being soulless or having hellpain. Both soullessness and hellpain are B stories. Dean was the Philip Marliqe stand-in in 6 and Dean was the pivotal last man standing in 7 in danger of losing everything he loved including Sam whilst facing this other; a popular meta writer at the time said it was a classic getoube's journey. Dullsville.

Seasons 8-11 the point of Purgatory wasn't that Dean was there or he suffered, itches that Sam didn't look but Dean had Benny (:)!!!!). The Mark of Cain was a symbol of Dean's tendency towards self sacrifice as well as his role in the family has shaped him as a hunter and killer, on him he just became uber Dean even when demonic. The point of the story was that Sam's rejection drove Dean to a self sacrific. Dean dies in Sam's arms and becomes a demon which is Sam's worse fear. Remember all of the season 3 references in Reichenbach back when Carver used to help with the writing? Sam goes dark to stop Dean from ever becoming a demon again. 

There was a  rational for what I saw 

Seasons 12, 13, Nihilism, Ouroboros...

WTF. 

At least have Chuck say... oh I l gave the kid a power-up because worlds shouldn't mix or somesuch... explain it  DO NOT have a scene like that and just ignore it.

Furious. 

I do not get how anyone liked last night's episode. 

I mean I never liked Chuck so GB lad everyone is on the same page...

If he is undoing it all which it doesn't look like because it is not happening chronologically... 

It just looked like he released all souls in an end of the world thing like judgement day.

[ILoveReading]

I feel cheated and angry.

I feel like everything I've been through with the Winchester's, all their highs and lows, to heaven, hell and purgatory and everything between has all been for nothing.  Its all just gone.  Jack is responsible for taking out the major players and now even all the Winchester minor victories are gone.  There is nothing left. 

Dabb and company reinventing the world lazy will just pick 20 episodes and just retell them.  Why should I care?  What made the MOTW episodes special and poignant was that often times it revealed a lot about the brother.  Like Bloody Mary was a creepy hunt but it was used to further deepen the mystery of what happened to Sam.  A hunt for just blood Mary is going to lose the impact.  Same with WIAWSNB.  It revealed so much about Dean's pysche.  The DJinn hunt was secondary.  Again Who cares. 

Why should I care about the Winchesters being surrounded by Zombies when Jack is just going to swoop in and save everyone with the wave of his hand.   It feels like Death's relationship with Death is now done and over with. 

I'm done with Cas.  He's become as big a self righteous hypocrite as Sam. 

I know that canon means nothing on this show, but a big reason Lucifer feel was because he was jealous of God's love of humanity.  So they bascially retconned all of season 5 because what now God hates humanity and was evil all along.

Nothing about this ep made a lick of sense.

Worse we have to put up with another season of Nougat Sue Snowflake who has to be the most uselless character ever.  He's like mold, unwanted and effecting everything.  (IMO, of course).  He commits the worst sin of all.  He's boring.  Because this ep made it obvious that he will never actually be held accountable to his actions. 

I have to much more to say but it probably belongs in bitch/jerk.

Basically Fuck you Dabb.

[PAForrest]

Well, that was a hot mess to end an entire season of hot messes. So many limp noodles sticking against a wall, none of it amounting to a full meal.

Ironically, even though it was a whole lotta WTF from start to finish, I found the going through the motions part entertaining enough. Dean was solidly written and Jensen put his all into it, like he always does. Sam was strong too, just a really terrible shot. Then again, I guess it's good he is because everything would have been over in an instant if he'd killed Chuckles. Of course, that may not have been a bad thing. Cas, OTOH, was mostly an asshole. And he continues to be one of the most played individuals in the history of this show. That part of canon remains unchanged. It's just this time he didn't even want to attempt to see it until it was too late.

The whole inability to lie thing was funny, I admit it - and very true. And sorry, not sorry, but the current disastrous state of American politics simply writes itself into that kind narrative. Dabb didn't even have to try.

But, really, the CW who wasn't on board with killing Chuck/God a couple years ago is okay with Dabb turning him into an outright villain? I mean, I know Old Testament God is pretty dickish, but if that's what Dabb was going for, I think he took it way too far.

Obviously Nougat isn't going to stay dead, not with Billie stepping in. I'm guessing Sludge Man is Luci, and it's obvious Dabb and Buck-Lemming will not give up their pets even for the last season. Frustrating, but probably why the Js want some say next year, hopefully to try and keep their characters from being rendered entirely unnecessary.

But Dabb's big ol' F-U to the two main characters in erasing their entire existence, not to mention Kripke's universe that Dabb inherited and continues to run roughshod over, was the epitome of pettiness. Sorry, Andrew, but that kind of childish attitude is why you can't have nice things in the form of a spin-off.

Oh, and surprise surprise, there was no Mikey twist. I'm not sure who still believed there would be, but nope, it was like it never happened. And Dabb having Sam** (my bad, it was Cas) hand-wave away all the complaints about dumping the set-up with Dean and Mike and the books with a lame one-liner that explained absolutely nothing was ridiculously weak, even for Dabb. Frankly at this point he should have said nothing.

Despite the instagram photo Jensen posted with the zombiefied angels that Jack tried to create, they didn't appear to be in this episode as nothing came down from Heaven, just crap from Hell. But is it all from Hell, because monsters don't go to Hell when they die, they go to Purgatory. Is that all being bundled now, like a wireless plan?

Sure, the last scene with the guys surrounded was very cool. But we know how this show rolls, it won't still be cool when the premiere opens.

Edited April 26, 2019 by PAForrest
Fix a statement

[strippedhalo]

Well, that was... something. But there was no Pellegrino! Let's try to keep it that way next season, please. (There is zero hope of this happening.)

I did like it when Sam announced that Chuck was the bad guy and Dean said, "No, no, no" while backing up to stand with Sam. That was a nice little callback (possibly unintentional) to Sam saying "No, no" and backing up to stand with Dean in the first season when Dean figured out that John was possessed.

Not everything in the graveyard now is a zombie, right? The souls flew up out of the ground, and a lot of their bodies would have been burned, so some of them are corporeal ghosts, maybe? Iron might work on those?

[Bergamot]

8 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Calling it now. To keep balance in the universe,  Jack will become the new God after killing Chuck.

Yeah. That's probably what Billie wants to talk to Jack about. And Chuck knows that Jack is supposed to be his replacement, which is why he is scared of him. I wish I could care, but it's not a story I am interested in seeing. Not when it is being handled by this group of writers.

I'm sure that words like "brilliant" and "daring" will be flung about in regard to the idea that Chuck is evil. As if no one in the history of the world, none of the great thinkers throughout the centuries, have ever thought of that possibility or considered what that would mean. (Actually, of course, they have.)

One reason I'm less than impressed by the "brilliance" of the idea is that is so clearly a set-up to continue the story of Jack. And I am so, so tired of the show being about Jack.  I never particularly liked the idea of Chuck as God, or the way he was written, but it is just so obvious that the character was given a total personality transplant (this Chuck is nothing like the Chuck we have seen before) because of what they want to do with Jack and his story. And that is the only thing that matters on the show, right?

I am also unimpressed with the version of Chuck they came up with as an antagonist for Jack. Typically for the show now, the new Chuck has no ambiguity to him, no nuance or mystery, no layers. In spite of his god powers, he could not be any more human in his small-minded pettiness. And of course he is Evil with a capital E -- a two-dimensional stereotypical villain twirling his moustache. As it stands now, he looks like maybe the least interesting big bad that the show has ever had, and that's sad considering this is going to be the last season.

[ukgirl71]

Can I chip in to add how irritated my inner Monica was that the reappearing characters were not played by the original actors - probably not feasible I know, but still set my teeth on edge.