S38.E11: Fasten Your Seatbelts

[ShellyD]

This is my first season of watching Survivor and I am finding it very interesting. 

I know that most here don’t agree 😕 and Mr. SD agrees with y’all (with the caveat that he is enjoying watching it). He doesn’t know anyone either lol.

I know most of their names and have been kinda able to follow the very fluid “alliances”. I kinda like the fact that they are so unpredictable. And I agree with most of their choices (maybe not the ORDER of their choices) 🤨

I like Aurora and Lauren. Ron and Rick seem ... slimy to me. I can’t pinpoint why. Victoria is quietly sneaky 😇😈. Gavin, Julie... who else is left? 

Jumped for joy when BattlePuppy aka WarDud vs ChallengeLoser went to EoE. I didn’t understand at first why all of you were unhappy about the size of the jury but reading all your posts explained your thought processes very clearly. 😀

Ream is hilariously entertaining to us. I agree that she probably “mothers ” in an abrasive way. I do wonder about the budget due to EoE.

And I would be looking for idols and food every chance I got! They are adults... given rice... now go find some protein to go with it. 

[Bryce Lynch]

On 4/27/2019 at 8:52 PM, millennium said:

In fact, Kelly talked about being married in this very episode, specifically "my husband allowed me to play a third time."

I don't think it is fair to call that comment sexist.  I'm sure most married contestants, both male and female, have to get permission from their spouses to go on the show.   A married person typically doesn't just say, "Honey, I'm going away for 40 days.  I'll need you to take care of the kids, and pay all the bills, and don't forget to water the plants.  Bye!"  

A spouse leaving  for 40 days can put a huge emotional, financial and logistical burden on the other spouse and on the two of them as a couple.  It is a pretty big sacrifice and I don't think any loving, reasonable spouse would force the other to make it if they are not OK with it.   

[Bryce Lynch]

On 4/26/2019 at 9:15 AM, RedbirdNelly said:

I think Reem deserves credit for being the original Edge member. She really had the toughest stay since she is the only one to have to hang out there by herself for days without knowing what came next. All the newer people have a better idea plus someone to chat with, even if it is Salty Reem.

Although I have come to enjoy Reem's salty greetings, I also have no issue with her getting voted out first. I also have no issue with people blaming it on "she moved our stuff." You don't need a good reason to vote someone out. For the first vote, people are just looking for a reason to create consensus around the "obvious vote." People are just meeting each other; if you have some reason, no matter how stupid, to divide the group into Us and Those we'll vote out, it's smart to do that. Adjust from there as you get to know strengths and weaknesses better. At the very beginning it is best to blend in and let someone else be the sore thumb; Reem did not do that. As a super fan, she knew that was necessary.

Well said.  I admire Reem's guts and persistence for sticking it out, and I find her amusing at times, annoying at others.  But, she has absolutely no beef about getting voted out first.   

If you put Reem, Wendy and Keith into a tribe in 10 seasons of Survivor, with different tribe mates, and Reem did the same things (being a bit abrasive, moving people's stuff and bonding with Wendy and Keith to form a sort of misfit alliance), she probably gets voted out first 8 or 9 of the 10 seasons.   She set herself up to be any easy boot, when that was exactly what everyone was looking for.  

[millennium]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think it is fair to call that comment sexist.  I'm sure most married contestants, both male and female, have to get permission from their spouses to go on the show.   A married person typically doesn't just say, "Honey, I'm going away for 40 days.  I'll need you to take care of the kids, and pay all the bills, and don't forget to water the plants.  Bye!"  

A spouse leaving  for 40 days can put a huge emotional, financial and logistical burden on the other spouse and on the two of them as a couple.  It is a pretty big sacrifice and I don't think any loving, reasonable spouse would force the other to make it if they are not OK with it.   

There is a big difference between agreeing and allowing.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, millennium said:

There is a big difference between agreeing and allowing.

I don't think so.  It would be wrong for a married person to up and leave for 40 days, without their spouse's permission.  The only exception would be if they had an understanding before the marriage that such situations might come up.  

I think it could be considered abandonment to just leave your spouse for 40 days without their consent, and might even be ground for divorce.   

I think we tend to see these castaways as TV characters.  But, they are real people, with real lives and real relationships back home.   

[ProfCrash]

On 4/27/2019 at 8:52 PM, millennium said:

In fact, Kelly talked about being married in this very episode, specifically "my husband allowed me to play a third time."

Russell Swan commented that his wife was fine with him playing the first time but did not approve of his playing the second time. He has joked that he spent a long time on the couch after the second time that he played. I think Jeremy mentioned that it had been a family decision the second time that he played, partially because his wife was pregnant and they had kids at home already. Alone, a different show I know, has had a bunch of contestants discuss their spouses willingness to let the contestant go away for an indeterminate amount of time to compete.

I can see playing being a family choice. Clearly, there are people who play without their spouses approval, and I am sure that does not go over well.

I took Kelly's comment in that context. They had a discussion and her spouse was ok and maybe even supportive of her playing a third time.

[millennium]

27 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Russell Swan commented that his wife was fine with him playing the first time but did not approve of his playing the second time. He has joked that he spent a long time on the couch after the second time that he played. I think Jeremy mentioned that it had been a family decision the second time that he played, partially because his wife was pregnant and they had kids at home already. Alone, a different show I know, has had a bunch of contestants discuss their spouses willingness to let the contestant go away for an indeterminate amount of time to compete.

I can see playing being a family choice. Clearly, there are people who play without their spouses approval, and I am sure that does not go over well.

I took Kelly's comment in that context. They had a discussion and her spouse was ok and maybe even supportive of her playing a third time.

I took her at her word.  And she said she was allowed.

32 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think so.  It would be wrong for a married person to up and leave for 40 days, without their spouse's permission. 

Ah, the "P" word.

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, millennium said:

I took her at her word.  And she said she was allowed.

Ah, the "P" word.

Permission, agreement, consent, allowed....   It is all pretty much semantics.  

In the end, any spouse who would run off to play a game for 40 days when his/her spouse is not OK with is a selfish person and a bad spouse, IMO.    

I have little doubt that thousands of people who have wanted to apply for Survivor have not done so because their spouse was not OK with them being gone 40 days.  

The hula hooping, vacuuming housewife meme is kind of insulting to the millions of people, both male and female, who love, respect and value their spouses enough not to think they could run off for 40 days without the spouse agreeing it is OK.   Kelley certainly does not come across as a downtrodden 1950s housewife.  

[millennium]

40 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Permission, agreement, consent, allowed....   It is all pretty much semantics.  

In the end, any spouse who would run off to play a game for 40 days when his/her spouse is not OK with is a selfish person and a bad spouse, IMO.    

I have little doubt that thousands of people who have wanted to apply for Survivor have not done so because their spouse was not OK with them being gone 40 days.  

The hula hooping, vacuuming housewife meme is kind of insulting to the millions of people, both male and female, who love, respect and value their spouses enough not to think they could run off for 40 days without the spouse agreeing it is OK.   Kelley certainly does not come across as a downtrodden 1950s housewife.  

I don't disagree with you that there should be agreement between spouses when one or the other decides to embark on a course of action that will have an impact on the marriage/family/household.

But I don't think it's just all semantics.  Words like "allowed" and "permission" perpetuate 1950s stereotypes of the domineering husband and/or the shrew wife and do a great disservice to the institution of marriage.  I think we'd all be better served by statements like "My husband agreed that I should come out here and compete a third time."  Or, rather than use a word like permission, i.e., My husband gave me permission to come out here a third time, it would be better to say My husband/wife supported my decision to come out here a third time.   "Allowed" and "permission" diminish the person claiming to be the beneficiary of a spouse's magnanimity.

Edited May 1, 2019 by millennium

[Bryce Lynch]

23 minutes ago, millennium said:

I don't disagree with you that there should be agreement between spouses when one or the other decides to embark on a course of action that will have an impact on the marriage/family/household.

But I don't think it's just all semantics.  Words like "allowed" and "permission" perpetuate 1950s stereotypes of the domineering husband and/or the shrew wife and do a great disservice to the institution of marriage.  I think we'd all be better served by statements like "My husband agreed that I should come out here and compete a third time."  Or, rather than use a word like permission, i.e., My husband gave me permission to come out here a third time, it would be better to say My husband/wife supported my decision to come out here a third time.   "Allowed" and "permission" diminish the person claiming to be the beneficiary of a spouse's magnanimity.

I honestly don't think allowed or permission bring up any 1950s domineering husband stereotypes.  Most domineering 1950s husbands are dead and those remaining are at least in their 80s.    

I think most people give no thought to any subtle differences in meaning and used the words interchangeably.  Alternatively it could be taken to mean that the husband and wife are a strongly bonded and intertwined partnership and neither can make radical choices like flying off to Fiji for 40 days without the other's permission.  

I think if we reversed things and a woman casually talked about how her husband decided to run off for 40 days and she didn't like it one bit, but said, "What could I do, he doesn't need my permission", the woman would probably be viewed as a doormat, by many.    

[SVNBob]

20 hours ago, Nashville said:

“...and EVERYBODY GETS PAID! - but in varying amounts.” 🙄

ETA: Hmmm... speaking of which... wonder if TPTB budgeted enough stipend for 89% of the cast remaining through 100% of the season...?  😁

Well, we know they saved money on the pre-jury vacation, and on Ponderosa's expenses.

[millennium]

18 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think if we reversed things and a woman casually talked about how her husband decided to run off for 40 days and she didn't like it one bit, but said, "What could I do, he doesn't need my permission", the woman would probably be viewed as a doormat, by many.    

Yes, because she regards herself as helpless in a relationship where her spouse doesn't respect her needs or opinion.

[RedbirdNelly]

I was not bothered by Wentworth saying her husband "allowed" her to go. Nothing about her personality suggests she is subservient to a domineering husband. People use words loosely so I think context matters. I also think you can mean it in a positive way--as in, I have a supportive husband, and that support allows me to feel ok about participating in this show without worrying about things at home.

[Bryce Lynch]

27 minutes ago, millennium said:

Yes, because she regards herself as helpless in a relationship where her spouse doesn't respect her needs or opinion.

But, wouldn't she be "domineering" if she insisted her husband get her "permission" in order to be "allowed" to run off for 40 days?

The bottom line is that in a normal healthy relationship, one spouse can't just run off for 6 weeks without the other spouse "allowing" it or giving "permission".   I mean they literally CAN do it, but the would risk destroying the relationship.   When a couple gets married they give up a great deal of their individual lives and freedom to for a unit.   

Even in a case where a couple has the sort of relationship where one can leave for a month or more without permission, it is because they have blanket permission, based upon a prior agreement.   

It is kind of sad to try to label a strong woman, who, has gone through the hardships of Survivor 3 times and battled hard against both men and women, both physically and strategically, as week or oppressed,  simply because she has enough respect for her spouse and her marriage and her commitments to them, to not assume she can leave for 40 days whenever she wants.  I'm quite confident her husband would never go off for 40 days unless she "allowed" it, either.  

[millennium]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, wouldn't she be "domineering" if she insisted her husband get her "permission" in order to be "allowed" to run off for 40 days?

You didn't state that he sought her permission in your original hypothetical, or that she had such an expectation. 

I think I've clearly stated my POV and anything further would be redundant.