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ottoDbusdriver

S06.E19: Rassvet

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Episode Description:

Alone in a foreign country after a mission goes catastrophically wrong, Katarina Rostova goes on the run to avoid the forces trying to hunt her down. Isolated and out of options, she seeks out the only person she trusts, a man who has vowed to always protect her.


Note: This is the 2nd hour of yet another 2 hour "event" (according to the NBC promo weasels).

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OK, 5 minutes in...are we completely sure Red isn't Katarina? I hope we find out in the next 50 minutes. I am sooooo ready for this particular mystery to be over.

ETA: Now, 15 minutes in, Red may be Nolan Ross from Revenge. I wish he was someone we'd seen before in this show, though. This just seems too...pulled out of the writers butts. Anticlimatic, even.

Edited by NeenerNeener
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I've only read the recap but dear Lord tell me we aren't going to get ANOTHER story about who Red is???

Although, let's be real, this show got picked up for another season so I won't hold my breath.

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So Red is agent Ilya, childhood friend of Katarina. I thought he was going to turn out to be her twin brother but Imdb credits give him a different last name. Got to say that Gabriel Mann looks a lot like young James Spader. 

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Hey, at least we got a mention of Liz's baby, if not her actual name.

Interesting end to the episode, when Reddington tells Grampa to repeat everything that he had told Liz about what happened.

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I hope they don't bring Agnes back. Let her stay with her grandma who is surely already spoiling her rotten as Lizzie wants.

I seem to be missing something.  I can understand why Red doesn't want the world to know he's an imposter because it could affect his business and all, but what does it matter if Lizzie is in on the secret? I just don't see it as something to kill Tom and Dr. Kaplan over.  

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4 minutes ago, Neiman said:

I seem to be missing something.  I can understand why Red doesn't want the world to know he's an imposter because it could affect his business and all

Did anyone definitively declare whose bones are in the suitcase??? I had trouble paying attention.....

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2 minutes ago, paigow said:

Did anyone definitively declare whose bones are in the suitcase??? I had trouble paying attention.....

I don't think the suitcase was mentioned, but I think they showed some footage of it. 🤔

Edited by Neiman
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47 minutes ago, Neiman said:

I wonder if Liz is Ilya's daughter instead of Reddington's daughter?

Maybe there is a whole lot of Targaryen / Lannister style inbreeding involved and Ilya & Red & Katrina are brother / sister / cousin / uncle / aunt / niece / nephew...

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I read that "rassvet" is Russian and can be translated as "sunrise."  Kind of symbolic way of saying Red's secret is no longer hidden and coming to light. Also wondered if it's the name of a town or community in Moscow where they once lived.

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Rassvet -- doesn't even get a Blacklist number, so I guess it's not a person or evil organization.  Rassvet means "dawn" in Russian, so that must mean something.

So the meet is arranged at the Twin Pines Motor Lodge -- once Marty goes back in time to 1955 in the Delorean and returns, will it then be named the Lone Pine Motor Lodge ?

How come in Lizzie's flashback to when she shot Reddington, the house wasn't on fire ?  Because I'm pretty sure the house was on fire when that happened. 

On Katerina's new US passport, it says her name is Anna Croft, but she was born in Helsinki.  Wouldn't it say born in Finland ?  It also says she was born in 1960.
I thought you weren't allowed to wear glasses in passport photos.

Glad they told us on screen that Katarina was going to Moscow, Russia -- never would have figured that out.  </sarcasm>

Young Dominic: "She's here. 

Young Dominic: "Not here. In Russia."   
That is just terrible writing, all for the sake of a tease between scenes.

And now we're in St. Petersburg, Russia, with Katarina in the Bathtub of Contemplation.

When she got that call from her mom, young Lizzie really needed to wax her upper lip. She had quite the 'stache going on.

When the camera zoomed in on the word "unknown" in the newspaper Ilya was holding that was pretty funny.
How exactly did Ilya get an English language newspaper in Russia in the early 90s ?  And would a missing US naval intelligence officer even make it in to the papers, let alone papers in Russia ?

So Reddington is Ilya Koslov.  Or is he ?
Because that doesn't really explain a lot.  Did the real Reddington tell all his secret bank codes to Katarina ?  I seriously doubt that.

Holy crap !! A mention of Agnes (well, Lizzie called her "her daughter", so that's something).  Still no mention of the dogs, Grandma Scottie or Robert Vesco's cat.  :)

How did Lizzie know Reddington was in Hong Kong ?  It's not like she called Dembe.

Of course it was all probably a long con on Lizzie.  I predict that none of these so-called "reveals" were real, just a story that Dom made up.

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Did anyone definitively declare whose bones are in the suitcase??? I had trouble paying attention.....

Not directly, but we did seen bones burning in a barrel, so who knows ?

1 hour ago, Neiman said:

I read that "rassvet" is Russian and can be translated as "sunrise."  Kind of symbolic way of saying Red's secret is no longer hidden and coming to light. Also wondered if it's the name of a town or community in Moscow where they once lived.

I wonder if it is the name of that town where the Russians were training replacements for Americans that we saw in Blacklist: Redemption.

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Maybe there is a whole lot of Targaryen / Lannister style inbreeding involved and Ilya & Red & Katrina are brother / sister / cousin / uncle / aunt / niece / nephew...

Maybe Dom is really Katerina Rostova !! Dun, dun, dun, dun.

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6 hours ago, Neiman said:

I can understand why Red doesn't want the world to know he's an imposter because it could affect his business and all, but what does it matter if Lizzie is in on the secret? I just don't see it as something to kill Tom and Dr. Kaplan over.  

The only thing I can figure out is that the danger Katarina faced if Red's death were known still exists and also that once Liz knows enough about Katarina's history to track her down, she will inevitably lead her enemies to her. But the logic is as shaky as ever on this show.

I do think Ilya has to be some blood relation of Liz's. No one is that devoted to a childhood crush's kid because of a vow made at age six.  And the tension between him and Dom bespeaks family dysfunction.

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4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Of course it was all probably a long con on Lizzie.  I predict that none of these so-called "reveals" were real, just a story that Dom made up.

I'm leaning this way myself since none of this makes sense any more and with yet another season of this bogus whatever it is, the writers have to keep releasing more flying pigs to put on paper.

Because I can't remember which episode was which, I'll just put all my thoughts in this thread.

That was pretty jackassery of Lizzie to tell Red that no one listens to podcasts on cassette. WTH, Lizzie, some people still have flip phones. And corded land lines.

I was hoping for Red to pull out his gun and shoot Lizzie then and there after her "confession" that she turned him into the police. No such luck, unfortunately.

Aram now runs fingerprints from his laptop? Alrighty then.

Liz grows mint at home to put in her tea? Alrighty then.

Ressler shows Dom's photo to Lizzie: "He's a ghost."

Next scene: Lizzie is knocking on Dom's door. WTH! How did she find a ghost? I guess look in the White Pages if it was that easy to find a face from a photo.

Lizzie asks: "Why did you lie to your granddaughter?" when she didn't even know Dom existed until Ressler's magic photo told her everything she needed to know to ID and locate him.

The close up of Lizzie crying in Dom's car as they drive made me laugh, it was shot like a hilariously Bad Fellini Movie.

I really don't get why it makes any difference all these years later who is the real Red and who is not. Spader obviously is pretty good at being a master criminal, why does his name matter? If he were some incompetent, he would have failed (read: been "eliminated") years ago.

All of a sudden Lizzie remembers she has a kid. Just can't recall its name.

At least Dembe put his affairs in order so he'd be ready when Red shot him. I still don't get why he felt so compelled to protect Lizzie. But there's a lot about this show I don't get.

Everyone who cares if Katarina is alive and who the real Red is, raise your hand ...

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1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

I'm leaning this way myself since none of this makes sense any more and with yet another season of this bogus whatever it is, the writers have to keep releasing more flying pigs to put on paper.

Because I can't remember which episode was which, I'll just put all my thoughts in this thread.

That was pretty jackassery of Lizzie to tell Red that no one listens to podcasts on cassette. WTH, Lizzie, some people still have flip phones. And corded land lines.

I was hoping for Red to pull out his gun and shoot Lizzie then and there after her "confession" that she turned him into the police. No such luck, unfortunately.

Aram now runs fingerprints from his laptop? Alrighty then.

Liz grows mint at home to put in her tea? Alrighty then.

Ressler shows Dom's photo to Lizzie: "He's a ghost."

Next scene: Lizzie is knocking on Dom's door. WTH! How did she find a ghost? I guess look in the White Pages if it was that easy to find a face from a photo.

Lizzie asks: "Why did you lie to your granddaughter?" when she didn't even know Dom existed until Ressler's magic photo told her everything she needed to know to ID and locate him.

The close up of Lizzie crying in Dom's car as they drive made me laugh, it was shot like a hilariously Bad Fellini Movie.

I really don't get why it makes any difference all these years later who is the real Red and who is not. Spader obviously is pretty good at being a master criminal, why does his name matter? If he were some incompetent, he would have failed (read: been "eliminated") years ago.

All of a sudden Lizzie remembers she has a kid. Just can't recall its name.

At least Dembe put his affairs in order so he'd be ready when Red shot him. I still don't get why he felt so compelled to protect Lizzie. But there's a lot about this show I don't get.

Everyone who cares if Katarina is alive and who the real Red is, raise your hand ...

So wait, Lizzie confessed that it was her who turned him in? Did I miss something? Or did she do it all cryptic like everything else in this show?

30 minutes ago, preeya said:

Hey people, listen up:

After all these so-called "reveals"  I'm still confused.

Join the club. 

At least Ilya looked just like a young James Spader, that made it easier to follow along. ;)

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8 minutes ago, Gemini Gipsy said:

So wait, Lizzie confessed that it was her who turned him in? Did I miss something? Or did she do it all cryptic like everything else in this show?

She did in S06.E18: The Brockton College Killer around the four-minute mark.

She said something to Red that Dembe didn't turn him in, but that she did.

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1 hour ago, preeya said:

She said something to Red that Dembe didn't turn him in, but that she did.

She wanted Red to cancel his lunch with somebody since his MO has been to buy a nice lunch/dinner for someone, then murder them. So she was saving "someone" from being killed. Maybe Red was going to eat out with Dembe. So Lizzie was saving some unknown Blacklister for some reason, first time ever.

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Wasn't that Mr. Kaplan's doing ?

I thought the deal was Mr. Kaplan was Masha's caretaker, full time, for Katarina. So now Mr. Kaplan never existed? Eh ...

2 hours ago, Gemini Gipsy said:

At least Ilya looked just like a young James Spader, that made it easier to follow along. ;)

Which makes me wonder, since they found an actor who resembles Spader, why Ilya had to have repeated surgical makeovers so he would look like ... Spader. WTH!

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I thought Gabrielle Mann was fabulous casting to play young James Spader ... but then, I thought, if he had surgery to look like dead-Red, then why would he look like a young current-Red?

Then I remembered that none of this show makes any kind of sense, and I ignored it like everything else. *shrugs*

Quote

Which makes me wonder, since they found an actor who resembles Spader, why Ilya had to have repeated surgical makeovers so he would look like ... Spader. WTH!

exactly!

Edited by tljgator · Reason: missed saber5055's post!
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2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I thought the deal was Mr. Kaplan was Masha's caretaker, full time, for Katarina. So now Mr. Kaplan never existed? Eh ...

I completely forgot about that (as apparently did the writers) when Mr. Kaplan helped raise Masha at that big house in Nova Scotia (the Summer Palace, if I'm remembering that correctly).  

So when Katerina tried to drown herself off Cape May, was Masha already with Sam ?  It's all pretty confusing.

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2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I thought the deal was Mr. Kaplan was Masha's caretaker, full time, for Katarina. So now Mr. Kaplan never existed? Eh ...

There was a scene where someone was being handed over to (what I thought was)  a young Mr. Kaplan. How that fell into the whole chronology, though, I don't know. 

1 hour ago, tljgator said:

I thought Gabrielle Mann was fabulous casting to play young James Spader ... but then, I thought, if he had surgery to look like dead-Red, then why would he look like a young current-Red?

I decided (for my own sanity, maybe) that Ilya probably bore some resemblance to dead-Red, and that he didn't have plastic surgery, or if he did it was very minor, but that he said he did in the bank to explain any questions about his changed appearance. 

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11 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Glad they told us on screen that Katarina was going to Moscow, Russia -- never would have figured that out.  </sarcasm>

I was wishfully hoping for some kind of crossover where Katarina meets Elizabeth Jennings (older/younger/whatever) and they start swapping stories.  Finally they look at each other and say, in unison, "Are you fuckin' kidding me?"

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My recollection of the Masha custody history was that she was with Katarina and the guy who much later thought she could cure his illness but she turned out not to be his kid. Then K went back to the US and hired Kaplan as the nanny. Later, K and real Reddington set up house and were raising Masha until the fight, Masha shooting Reddington, and the fire. At that point Ilya took her to Sam. Did Sam work as a carny?  I missed that. 

I’ve been mulling over possibilities for Ilya to be related to Masha, although all require some hand-waving.

1. The simplest: Ilya is Masha’s father. Any DNA linking her to Real Red was faked. Ilya had the body so getting DNA was easy. 

2. Ilya and Katarina are brother and sister, their different surnames due to their KGB Aliases. 

3.  I and K are half-siblings, I the result of other relationships by either Dom or Katarina’s mother. 

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8 hours ago, saber5055 said:

She wanted Red to cancel his lunch with somebody since his MO has been to buy a nice lunch/dinner for someone, then murder them. So she was saving "someone" from being killed. Maybe Red was going to eat out with Dembe. So Lizzie was saving some unknown Blacklister for some reason, first time ever.

I thought the deal was Mr. Kaplan was Masha's caretaker, full time, for Katarina. So now Mr. Kaplan never existed? Eh ...

Which makes me wonder, since they found an actor who resembles Spader, why Ilya had to have repeated surgical makeovers so he would look like ... Spader. WTH!

Thank you for this. I wondered the same thing. Apparantly all the good doc did was alter his vocal chords and give him a snazzy hat. Oi.

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3 hours ago, Cardie said:

My recollection of the Masha custody history was that she was with Katarina and the guy who much later thought she could cure his illness but she turned out not to be his kid. Then K went back to the US and hired Kaplan as the nanny. Later, K and real Reddington set up house and were raising Masha until the fight, Masha shooting Reddington, and the fire. At that point Ilya took her to Sam. Did Sam work as a carny?  I missed that. 

I’ve been mulling over possibilities for Ilya to be related to Masha, although all require some hand-waving.

1. The simplest: Ilya is Masha’s father. Any DNA linking her to Real Red was faked. Ilya had the body so getting DNA was easy. 

2. Ilya and Katarina are brother and sister, their different surnames due to their KGB Aliases. 

3.  I and K are half-siblings, I the result of other relationships by either Dom or Katarina’s mother. 

No matter how much they choose to fuck with us, Red (James Spader's Red) is her father, as we've all suspected from episode 1. Because come on, no one does all of this for some grade school crush and their kid. Right?!?!?! At least make it make sense beyond the pact of a couple of kindergarteners. 

That would be the most anticlimactic shit ending I could think of. 

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16 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:


Because that doesn't really explain a lot.  Did the real Reddington tell all his secret bank codes to Katarina ?  I seriously doubt that.

They were all accounts that Katarina set up to frame Red.  RealRed didn't actually know about the accounts because he died before they were revealed.

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44 minutes ago, Gemini Gipsy said:

Apparantly all the good doc did was alter his vocal chords....

Made them extra-heavy duty for all the expected monologuing........

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2 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

They were all accounts that Katarina set up to frame Red.  RealRed didn't actually know about the accounts because he died before they were revealed.

Or did he? They say they left him in the fire but could he have escaped? 

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23 hours ago, Neiman said:

I read that "rassvet" is Russian and can be translated as "sunrise."  Kind of symbolic way of saying Red's secret is no longer hidden and coming to light. Also wondered if it's the name of a town or community in Moscow where they once lived.

When I try and translate a Russian sounding name, I first use an online conversion from Latin to Cyrillic alphabet and than use a Russian to English translation:

rassvet -> рассвет ->dawn or daybreak

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  23 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Of course it was all probably a long con on Lizzie.  I predict that none of these so-called "reveals" were real, just a story that Dom made up.

So many characters have died up to this point to protect this secret, including Liz's foster father, Mr Kaplan and Liz's hubster. Her "meh" attitude about this just frosts me. And he's just some random Soviet agent, or so this episode says. I hope that's not all there is to this story line. Weak tea....

Edited by NeenerNeener
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10 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

So many characters have died up to this point to protect this secret, including Liz's foster father, Mr Kaplan and Liz's hubster. Her "meh" attitude about this just frosts me. And he's just some random Soviet agent, or so this episode says. I hope that's not all there is to this story line. Weak tea....

I think you are correct, and it is weak tea. It's like Spader's character is really Leon Trotsky, regenerated back to life by that Blacklist doctor, and Lizzie is really the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna, also regenerated. Because otherwise, who gives a care who Red is, really, and what difference does any of it make, what rando spy from decades ago would be so important that he has to kill everyone to protect that weak-tea secret. Just buy some 23andMe DNA kits, Cooper, and get this over with.

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41 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

 I hope that's not all there is to this story line. Weak tea....

The REAL daughter is Natasha Romanoff a.k.a. Black Widow... but until Disney buys NBC, this plot line will remain unresolved.....

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On 4/21/2019 at 11:05 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Katarina Rostova goes on the run to avoid the forces trying to hunt her down. Isolated and out of options, she seeks out the only person she trusts, a man who has vowed to always protect her.

So now there's some guy who has vowed to always protect Katarina, and Red has vowed to always protect Lizzie. Where does someone find a dude like that, besides on The Bachelorette (Kasey)?

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Perhaps RealRed was already bald, so the doc had to remove all the follicles of Ilya’s magnificent mane, thus the need for a hat after the final surgery. 

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On 4/27/2019 at 4:57 PM, saber5055 said:

Next scene: Lizzie is knocking on Dom's door. WTH! How did she find a ghost? I guess look in the White Pages if it was that easy to find a face from a photo.

Lizzie asks: "Why did you lie to your granddaughter?" when she didn't even know Dom existed until Ressler's magic photo told her everything she needed to know to ID and locate him.

I had to refresh my recollection, but Lizzie had already been to Dom's cabin in season 5, when following up on Tom's death, but knew him as "Oleander".  He had even admitted to her that he had known Katarina. 

I certainly hope that she does not bring Dom and Agnes together, since the KGB are still after Dom.

On 4/27/2019 at 8:43 PM, saber5055 said:

She wanted Red to cancel his lunch with somebody since his MO has been to buy a nice lunch/dinner for someone, then murder them. So she was saving "someone" from being killed. Maybe Red was going to eat out with Dembe. So Lizzie was saving some unknown Blacklister for some reason, first time ever.

It was Ruddiger, the explosives guy who both set up and disabled the bomb at the UN, and who was in that "fun" episode at the opera where he blew a whole in a wall to revel a treasure.

Since Ruddiger appears to be willing to blow people up if he's paid enough money, it wouldn't be a great loss if Red took him out.  But Dembe would have felt guilty, so....

On 4/28/2019 at 4:55 AM, Gemini Gipsy said:

No matter how much they choose to fuck with us, Red (James Spader's Red) is her father, as we've all suspected from episode 1. Because come on, no one does all of this for some grade school crush and their kid. Right?!?!?! At least make it make sense beyond the pact of a couple of kindergarteners. 

On 4/28/2019 at 7:36 AM, Neiman said:

Or did he? They say they left him in the fire but could he have escaped?

They said they dragged him out of the fire, but that he died in Katarina's arms.  The strong implication was that the bag of bones were the real Red's bones.

Katarina was awfully concerned about the real Red's coming loss of reputation and how it would affect jennifer and her mother.

On 4/28/2019 at 4:55 AM, Gemini Gipsy said:

No matter how much they choose to fuck with us, Red (James Spader's Red) is her father, as we've all suspected from episode 1. Because come on, no one does all of this for some grade school crush and their kid. Right?!?!?! At least make it make sense beyond the pact of a couple of kindergarteners. 

On 4/28/2019 at 2:03 PM, saber5055 said:

So now there's some guy who has vowed to always protect Katarina, and Red has vowed to always protect Lizzie. Where does someone find a dude like that, besides on The Bachelorette (Kasey)?

Ilya vowed (or they vowed to each other, when extremely young) to always protect Katarina, whom he was clearly in love with.  When he first discovered she was alive (in the first motel), he nearly kissed her, and after he told her of his plan to become Red, they began to kiss on the bed, and likely moved on to more than just kissing.  If he loved her enough to undergo surgery and give up his entire life to throw the KGB off the trail, I have no problem with him also vowing to protect Masha, the child of his beloved, whom he saved from the fire.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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So, Katarina was so concerned about the Russians and THE CABAL!!! ruining RealRed’s reputation that she thought it would be better to set him up as an international Super Villain?  

Young Dom looked significantly younger than Young Mrs. Dom.  Otherwise a great job in casting the younger two actors.

Finally, Agnes gets a shout out!  

It will be a huge disappointment if they don’t get Molly Ringwald to play current day Katarina. 

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5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I certainly hope that she does not bring Dom and Agnes together, since the KGB are still after Dom.

Agnes can take care of herself. She has been since she was about 6 months old. When she was recruited by the KGB (or its present day counterpart). In fact, it would be more dangerous for Dom to see Agnes than the other way around, since she would rat him out to her nursery school teachers-handlers.

Edited by Loandbehold
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On 4/26/2019 at 9:11 PM, milkyaqua said:

I've only read the recap but dear Lord tell me we aren't going to get ANOTHER story about who Red is???

Although, let's be real, this show got picked up for another season so I won't hold my breath.

So another session of tail chasing with little or no movement. Yea!

Not sure why Aran is so cooperative, except Agnes syndrome. (History conveniently forgotten by the writers) 

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4 hours ago, Neiman said:

I wouldn't be surprised if our Red turned out to be the real Raymond Reddington.  

Agree. I always expected that the NOT Red would be a sibling of Katarina, but the Ilya twist seems a stretch in the long term given the trail of violent criminal activity that was pursued after any kind of suggested changeover and his public persona during the flashback scenes. I think viewers will get a double impostor before this ends.

Edited by VinceW
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15 hours ago, VinceW said:

I think viewers will get a double impostor before this ends.

"Reddor, Redtoria"

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On 4/27/2019 at 6:42 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

On Katerina's new US passport, it says her name is Anna Croft, but she was born in Helsinki.  Wouldn't it say born in Finland ?  It also says she was born in 1960.
I thought you weren't allowed to wear glasses in passport photos.

Back in the day you used to be able to wear glasses in passport photos. I'm wearing glasses in my current passport from 2009, but when I renew shortly, I won't be wearing glasses as its not allowed anymore.

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On 4/27/2019 at 11:42 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

On Katerina's new US passport, it says her name is Anna Croft, but she was born in Helsinki.  Wouldn't it say born in Finland ?

You are correct. A U.S. passport would list the country of birth, Finland. SO SURPRISED the writers didn't research that easy-to-find fact. (Heck, I found it.) Anna Croft ... Laura's sister?

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Hey guys,

I know it's a bit old thread, but I've only just seen the episode and was wondering.. Do any of you remember the episode where Red didn't have a shirt on and there where burnmarks on his back? Yes? Well doesn't that prove that Red in fact ISN'T Ilya, and that Red in fact was at that burning house and not Ilya, right?!? Well of course unless Ilya burned his own back on purpose afterwards which sounds highly unlikely.. What do you think guys? And don't spoil the last episodes for me if the answers are in the last episodes, thanks!

Edited by Mr.T
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