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S02.E13: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

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Past Kelly just f'd up the timeline??!?!?

The club scene with Yafit and the Moclans = priceless.  

Did anyone get the Riker and Riker vibe from this episode?

Edited by greekmom
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Uh oh... I’m guessing the memory wipe didn’t work.

This was very reminiscent of the TNG episode with the two Rikers. But with what looks like will be much more dire consequences.

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So this was TNG's Second Chances with a little of the film "La Jette" thrown in.

Interesting ending. From what I've seen of this show in two seasons, I think there will be some consequences. We also got a little more about the Isaac situation.

On to the finale!

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So nice to see Bortus and Klyden happy for once. "We must return to the dance!"

Yaphit dancing was wonderful.

Edited by marinw
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Ed had theorized to present Kelly there were two possibilities with regards to the timeline; one was that the timeline fractured and nothing past Kelly does matters to their timeline.  I think that’s what happened at the end.

Edited by jcin617
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17 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Was there a trailer to next weeks????

There was,

Spoiler

but I couldn't tell if it was scenes from next week, or scenes from the whole of Season 2. I saw Krill, Kaylons and both Kellys. 

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So young Kelly remembers everything. What does this mean for her relationship with Ed? Will they still be married in next week's episode or maybe they never marry. Crazy.

Bortus, Klyden, and Yapit on the dance floor were hilarious. 

Edited by SimoneS
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I really didn't see that ending coming, wow. The mind wipe must have failed somehow. So does that mean past!Kelly created a divergent timeline? Because obviously present!Kelly would have remembered turning Ed down and so would he. This would change things for the whole crew, too. Ed would likely become a captain anyway, but probably not for The Orville, and Kelly wanted to captain her own ship. They better hope Ed is right about her actions not affecting their timeline. 

I felt bad for Kelly when her past self called her a disappointment. Imagine how shitty that would feel coming from a younger version of you. I like that Talla was a good friend to younger Kelly, though. 

Yaphit, Bortus, and Klyden dancing slayed me, especially Bortus saying the club music sounds like Moclan mating songs. The ice rings around the planet looked awesome, so hats off to the CGI team once again. 

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5 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

So young Kelly remembers everything. What does this mean for her relationship with Ed? Will they still be married in next week's episode or maybe they never marry. Crazy.

Bortus, Klyden, and Yapit on the dance floor were hilarious. 

I don't know that she remembers everything. She might just have a feeling that Ed will cause her pain in the future. We'll see soon, because Orville actually has consequences.

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Young Kelly was pretty tough on present Kelly, calling her a disappointment. I can see Young Kelly making different choices changing the timeline, maybe present Kelly doesn't remember why, but she is in different position when the show returns which is why the preview for the next episode doesn't give us much. Maybe Kelly is the captain of the Orville and Ed is the first officer.

Edited by SimoneS
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9 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Maybe Kelly is the captain of the Orville and Ed is the first officer.

I like this idea!

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19 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

Ed had theorized to present Kelly there were two possibilities with regards to the timeline; one was that the timeline fractured and nothing past Kelly does matters to their timeline.  I think that’s what happened at the end.

Please. Make it so.

It was a very well-developed time travel story within a single episode.
The only "huh?" moment for me was when young Kelly perked up and said that the mind wipe and travel back 7 years had obviously worked because they were all there. 
Um. Not necessarily, young Kelly [says old mom shapeshifter].
 

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I love Kelly episodes.

Kelly is my favorite character so episodes that center on her I usually like.  I really liked the idea of past and present versions of Kelly and Ed thinking that he could start a relationship up again with the version of Kelly who hadn’t divorced him yet.  

This was a very well developed time travel story by someone who has actually watched time travel stories.  Yeah no one actually understands time travel.  

The ending was interesting and I wonder if the show will go anywhere with it.  A Kelly and Ed story that might have changed.  Or this could fracture into an alternate universe and we could have a future episode where Ed and Kelly never dated at all and Kelly instead becomes captain of The Orville.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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This quiet episode was such an interesting contrast to the bombast of the STD season finale. I would have never guessed that the man behind Family Guy would be capable of this kind of narrative discipline and restraint.

Edited by marinw
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7 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

The ending was interesting and I wonder if the show will go anywhere with it.

It made me dread Time Travel Soapy Drama, but reading this post makes me hopeful that it might just be like Stargate SG1, in which the only change (after they repaired the fractured timeline) was that there were fish in Jack's pond.
So I'm hoping we can skip right to a token pet fish in a bowl on Kelly's desk.
Wait. Isn't there already a fishbowl on Ed's desk?

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I really hated this episode with the exception of Bortus dancing and the last 60 seconds. That was just a little more Kelly than I can take in one hour.

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1 hour ago, ketose said:

I don't know that she remembers everything. She might just have a feeling that Ed will cause her pain in the future. We'll see soon, because Orville actually has consequences.

Or maybe that she causes him pain by cheating on him and almost destroying his life and career.

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This show has impressed me with its ability to throw in some good swerves.  That ending was pretty amazing.  I don't know what kind of effect it's going to have on the future (by rights, I don't even think they should be on the Orville), or how they're going to change things back.  Or even IF they're going to change things back.

Did they somehow do some type of Marvel de-aging CGI special effects on young Kelly?  I swore she actually looked slimmer.

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My husband thinks that this is a Kaylon plot and that young Kelly is a plant not sent from the past but is actually Kaylon and has been put in the past now to mess things up. I have no idea what is going on but I promised I would post. He is going with the long con. I guess we will see.

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33 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Did they somehow do some type of Marvel de-aging CGI special effects on young Kelly?  I swore she actually looked slimmer.

You know, I was wondering the same thing. I didn't even recognize that it was Kelly until Isaac asked how she had changed clothes so quickly. 

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40 minutes ago, rmontro said:

special effects on young Kelly?  I swore she actually looked slimmer.

I doubt it. Adrianne Palicki has celiac disease, so it's probably hard for her to keep her weight up. I think she just wore more youthful clothes that revealed more leg (as the more youthful often do) and the wig.

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3 hours ago, jcin617 said:

Ed had theorized to present Kelly there were two possibilities with regards to the timeline; one was that the timeline fractured and nothing past Kelly does matters to their timeline.  I think that’s what happened at the end.

Yeah, I agree.  Whether she remembered or not(and it seems she did) this Kelly is in an alternate timeline, where she and Ed never got together. 

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The Orville addressing the real issues about time-travel: is it okay to date a younger version of your ex that was accidentally pulled from a past timeline or possible alternate dimension?!

I thought Adrianne Palicki did a good job making Younger Kelly different from Original Kelly, but in a way where one can believe that they are the same person, but just from different time periods.  Also thought the show did a good job with how seamless they were with having both characters in the same scenes.  Granted, I think Orphan Black will always be the pinnacle when it comes to pulling it off and making it feel so real, but there were moments or two here where I briefly forgot both characters were being played by the same actress.

At least Bortus and Klyden found something they both love: techno music!

All the stuff with the Kaylan ships make me think there is way more to that, then simply suspenseful moments for the episode.

Interesting ending.  Either the memory wipe didn't work or it did, but there are some leftover effects that made Past Kelly decide that she and Ed wouldn't work out.  If she is from this timeline's past, how will that change things in the future.  Will both Ed and Kelly still be on The Orville?  Will they be in different positions (definitely wondering if they're setting it up for Kelly to be the captain instead for the finale)?  Curious to see how this plays out!

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6 hours ago, Arynm said:

My husband thinks that this is a Kaylon plot and that young Kelly is a plant not sent from the past but is actually Kaylon and has been put in the past now to mess things up. I have no idea what is going on but I promised I would post. He is going with the long con. I guess we will see.

I kind of thought that too, but they did something similar with Ed and the Krill. We shall see. 

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Yes, the Kaylons! They seemed like a side plot, but maybe whatever they are scheming is one of the triggering events. I am really looking forward to next week's episode. This is such a great show. I really hope it is renewed. I want another season.

I did think that Ed was skeevy dating the younger Kelly. It rubbed me the wrong way. That is not the right way to get a do over. So I was glad that the show decided to have the relationship tank itself for that very reason. Ed apologizing for all his mistakes was nicely and sincerely done, but Kelly certainly contributed that disaster.

Edited by SimoneS
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5 hours ago, Shimmergloom said:
9 hours ago, jcin617 said:

Ed had theorized to present Kelly there were two possibilities with regards to the timeline; one was that the timeline fractured and nothing past Kelly does matters to their timeline.  I think that’s what happened at the end.

Yeah, I agree.  Whether she remembered or not(and it seems she did) this Kelly is in an alternate timeline, where she and Ed never got together. 

Now that you remind me of how "Ed had theorized to present Kelly there were two possibilities with regards to the timeline; one was that the timeline fractured and nothing past Kelly does matters to their timeline,"
I recall that I immediately said to the screen: Well, then. Clearly this is a fractured timeline, or else we (the viewers) would see a discernible difference WRT Kelly and Ed (like maybe their roles on the Orville were reversed, or, at the very least, Present Kelly has black hair)
unless fate is immutable.
So.
The last scene must mean fractured timelines. Right?

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9 hours ago, marinw said:

So nice to see Bortus and Klyden happy for once. "We must return to the dance!"

They really needed a date night! 

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We don’t know which way the show is going with the timeline.  It could legitimately go either way.  Which is interesting.   What if Ed and Kelly never actually dated?  What kind of people would they both be?  

Would Kelly have recommended Ed for Captain?  She did that originally out of some kind  out of guilt but also because she did know what kind of man he was when he was on his game,  would she have done that if she never loved him?  Would she have needed to if she never broke his heart?

Who would Kelly be if she chose career over love?  If she gave up one portion of her life to go after another?  What would fall away?  

It’s  time travel.  No one understands it.  The show could do almost anything with Ed and Kelly at this point and it would be not wrong.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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7 hours ago, Arynm said:

My husband thinks that this is a Kaylon plot and that young Kelly is a plant not sent from the past but is actually Kaylon and has been put in the past now to mess things up. I have no idea what is going on but I promised I would post. He is going with the long con. I guess we will see.

If this is true, wouldn't that mean there were 2 Kellys in this timeline. This would also suggest that the Kaylons know whether time travel fractures the timeline.

High Comedy = Bortus and Klyden liking the same thing

Major Drama = Bortus and Klyden disagreeing about something

I can't believe they would have something like a waiter on the Orville, seems like a waste of personnel. Place you order before you reach the dining area and the synthesizer makes it for you right before you carry it to your table and sit down to eat.

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I thought everyone did a great job making YoungKelly look/be younger; that was very realistic (although I also loved Kelly's reaction to "Young Kelly/Old Kelly", and a lot of the other details, like playing the video game, and having it be hard to hit "save.")

If YoungKelly IS a Kaylon plant, they know what Ed likes, and would give extra irony to "I want to date someone who's not a Krill."  If it is Kelly from the past, that makes for some relationship issues that only science fiction can explore.

Also, the line about "I'd sooner chew broken glass" than discussing temporal paradoxes was very close to something Mrs. Marketdoctor once said.  Well played, show!

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aargh!  How can shows like this have the budget to get a ton of A rated stars, have amazing CGI, and realistic makeup for alien crew members, but they can't pony up a few bucks for a halfway convincing "normal" wig???  Young Kelly's wig was soooo horrible!  My other issue with the episode was that Young Kelly was so overly timid in the first few scenes, I couldn't buy into her being the same Kelly, just 7 years younger.  You'd think if anything she'd be more young-gun cocky, more Wireless Telecommunications Facility, when she first popped onto the Orville.

Other than those issues, I loved the episode.  Total ick factor on Ed dating Young Kelly.  Loved the ending and can't wait to see what happens with that.  If Young Kelly's memory wasn't wiped, will she warn the Union about the Kaylon?  Also wondering if this little time portal machine will come in handy down the road.   

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1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

We don’t know which way the show is going with the timeline.  It could legitimately go either way.  Which is interesting.   What if Ed and Kelly never actually dated?  What kind of people would they both be?  

Would Kelly have recommended Ed for Captain?  She did that originally out in some part out of guilt but also because she did know what kind of man he was when he was on his game,  would she have done that if she never love him?  Would she have needed to if she never broke his heart?

And now I'm imagining a reset in which Kelly recommended Ed based on her professional knowledge of him, and then they fall in love for the first time in our (later) timeline.

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12 hours ago, hendersonrocks said:

That was just a little more Kelly than I can take in one hour.

Me too.  I loved her in Friday Night Lights but not here.  She seems wooden in this role -- maybe it's a hazard of playing a military type.  As soon as I saw her in that godawful wig and realized it'd be a Kelly-centric episode with lots of two-Kelly "How did they do that?!" scenes, I turned it off.

Sounds like I missed an interesting episode though.

Edited by AuntiePam

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What happened to the theory that two instances of the same matter couldn't be in the same place at the same time? Couldn't the two Kellys just have hugged it out? Problem solved! 😉

Ed: Man, I love these temporal anomaly Kellys. I get older and they get seven years younger! Alright, alright, alright.

Quote

We 'll see soon, because Orville actually has consequences.

I see that shade and thoroughly approve of it. Looking at you, Discovery.

Quote

I would have never guessed that the man behind Family Guy would be capable of this kid of narrative discipline and restraint.

Yep. I feel like I have to take back all most of the crap I've talked about him. He's done great here.

Edited by Joimiaroxeu
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1 hour ago, AuntiePam said:

Me too.  I loved her in Friday Night Lights but not here.  She seems wooden in this role -- maybe it's a hazard of playing a military type.  As soon as I saw her in that godawful wig and realized it'd be a Kelly-centric episode with lots of two-Kelly "How did they do that?!" scenes, I turned it off.

Sounds like I missed an interesting episode though.

She was also in Agents of Shield which is where I know her from and the major reason I gave this show a chance to begin with.  She was also (and I didn’t recognize her even though I watch the movie all the time) in John Wick.  So I am in for Kelly as many Kelly’s as the show needs.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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As someone who really hates how the show has handled Ed/Kelly romance stuff, I groaned as soon as I knew we were in for an update of the two Rikers episode.

Pushing that to the side, it seems like the involvement of the Kaylon should have been a bigger deal than it was. As far as we know, this is the first time that they have resurfaced since nearly destroying Earth. The mystery of why they are showing up now and what they want, and alerting the Union to this new appearance are all things that should have been a bigger focus. Not to mention Isaac's reaction to the first time he's encountering his people since betraying them.

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15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I doubt it. Adrianne Palicki has celiac disease, so it's probably hard for her to keep her weight up. I think she just wore more youthful clothes that revealed more leg (as the more youthful often do) and the wig.

Maybe, a different hairstyle can do a lot.  I still wonder if there was some digital trickery afoot though, even her skin looked smoother.  It's not like they've exactly skimped on the special effects this season.

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23 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Maybe, a different hairstyle can do a lot.  I still wonder if there was some digital trickery afoot though, even her skin looked smoother.  It's not like they've exactly skimped on the special effects this season.

I did think that younger Kelly's skin looked smoother. But as the difference was only seven years, I figured they probably just caked on some extra foundation to achieve that.

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I think Kelly looks a hundred times better with bangs.  They did little to nothing to make Ed look younger in the last scene.

My main problem with Kelly is that Kelly is always right.  Or, at least, Kelly thinks so.

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17 hours ago, Arynm said:

My husband thinks that this is a Kaylon plot and that young Kelly is a plant not sent from the past but is actually Kaylon and has been put in the past now to mess things up. I have no idea what is going on but I promised I would post. He is going with the long con. I guess we will see.

Then how did she end up back in time without a second "real" Kelly? Although the Borg tried going back in time to prevent the Federation.

9 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I can't believe they would have something like a waiter on the Orville, seems like a waste of personnel. Place you order before you reach the dining area and the synthesizer makes it for you right before you carry it to your table and sit down to eat.

Ten Forward.

9 hours ago, chaifan said:

aargh!  How can shows like this have the budget to get a ton of A rated stars, have amazing CGI, and realistic makeup for alien crew members, but they can't pony up a few bucks for a halfway convincing "normal" wig???  Young Kelly's wig was soooo horrible!  My other issue with the episode was that Young Kelly was so overly timid in the first few scenes, I couldn't buy into her being the same Kelly, just 7 years younger.  You'd think if anything she'd be more young-gun cocky, more Wireless Telecommunications Facility, when she first popped onto the Orville.

Other than those issues, I loved the episode.  Total ick factor on Ed dating Young Kelly.  Loved the ending and can't wait to see what happens with that.  If Young Kelly's memory wasn't wiped, will she warn the Union about the Kaylon?  Also wondering if this little time portal machine will come in handy down the road.   

I don't really see bad wigs like some people do. In some cases, I have to wonder if any wig would be "good" enough since it's unfamiliar. People thought Keri Russell had a bad wig in Felicity, too.

Also, I can forgive Young Kelly for being timid when she's nursing a hangover on Earth one minute and the next she's in a room with a Kaylon on a space ship. She might need a minute to take it in before she demands anything.

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15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I thought Adrianne Palicki did a good job making Younger Kelly different from Original Kelly, but in a way where one can believe that they are the same person, but just from different time periods.  Also thought the show did a good job with how seamless they were with having both characters in the same scenes.  Granted, I think Orphan Black will always be the pinnacle when it comes to pulling it off and making it feel so real, but there were moments or two here where I briefly forgot both characters were being played by the same actress.

Orphan Black was such a great show.  I do think the Orville did a good job of putting the same actress in scenes with two characters as well.

Since this time travel story involves time travel to the future, the show avoids all the paradox issues that happen when you go backwards in time.  If past Kelly did end up changing the future, it's just a different future.  I'm really looking forward to seeing how it turns out next week.  I'm wondering if the show is bold enough to make the changes permanent.  That would be pretty wild.

Edited by Dobian
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20 hours ago, rmontro said:

Did they somehow do some type of Marvel de-aging CGI special effects on young Kelly?  I swore she actually looked slimmer.

I thought the uniform on young Kelly was cut just a little slimmer. That, the (very bad) wig and the way Palicki modulated her voice all came together to create a new, yet familiar, character. It was really impressive. Except for the Halloween store wig.

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This episode was highly predictable until the last few seconds. I wish this was their way of ending the Ed/Kelly romance for good but, sadly I don't think they will.  I think Seth considers the romance a foundation of the show where it should really be the emotional fallout and growth that should be the foundation

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20 hours ago, rmontro said:

Did they somehow do some type of Marvel de-aging CGI special effects on young Kelly?  I swore she actually looked slimmer.

It took me a bit to see "our" Kelly in Young Kelly. I was also wondering if there was a filter/CGI/makeup/etc manipulation going on. Then about halfway through, they had Young Kelly appear at a slightly different angle and she (briefly) looked more like Current Kelly. After that, I tried to ignore all of that and succeeded in squashing it down to low level resentment. 🙂

20 hours ago, Arynm said:

My husband thinks that this is a Kaylon plot and that young Kelly is a plant not sent from the past but is actually Kaylon and has been put in the past now to mess things up. I have no idea what is going on but I promised I would post. He is going with the long con. I guess we will see.

I was actually also waiting for young Kelly to be revealed as a Kaylon once those two ships mysteriously appeared and also managed to find them again.

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 *ouch* Just when I run out of my prescription for Janeway's 'Time Travel Headache Be Gone' due to Discovery the Orville decides to pull a Tardis too! I have nothing substantial to add except that I loved younger Kelly's powder-blue top. As for her looks: I seriously wondered if they used the same trickery 12 Monkeys did with Hanna Schygulla . But since they did not have to smooth out decades but only 7 years that seems like overkill.

Edited by MissLucas
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21 hours ago, rmontro said:

Did they somehow do some type of Marvel de-aging CGI special effects on young Kelly?  I swore she actually looked slimmer.

She obviously was wearing a wig that was softer and younger looking, and they did her makeup different too, especially her eyes and eyebrows, which gave her a softer look.  Some of the clothes she wore also had a slimming effect.  No CGI there.

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