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S02.E14: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II

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On 4/19/2019 at 12:08 PM, aquarian1 said:

I would watch the hell out of a show of Pike's Enterprise with Anson Mount in the lead.  

This absolutely this! 💕 Mount’s Pike is awesome, and Anson is hot! 

How is Giorgiou going to have a Section 31 spin-off if she is in the future on Discovery?

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As someone else mentioned, Spock and St. Michael having that teary heartfelt conversation while all kinds of 💩 was blowing up around them was stupid. I was like, “Shut the f*ck up and and get the hell out of there!” That kind of thing is one of my movie/tv pet peeves.

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8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

As someone else mentioned, Spock and St. Michael having that teary heartfelt conversation while all kinds of 💩 was blowing up around them was stupid. I was like, “Shut the f*ck up and and get the hell out of there!” That kind of thing is one of my movie/tv pet peeves.

And yet, even as I was saying the same thing, I found it moving. Particularly the Vulcan "I love you."

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St. Michael?  Don't you mean St. Christopher Pike?  Mr. Starfleet Ideal?  I guess people don't mind the sunshine pouring out of his ass, but when someone like Michael proves to be competent, they have a problem.

I disliked the Season Two finale.  But I certainly DID NOT dislike the series in general . . . especially Season One, which I loved.

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1 hour ago, LJones41 said:

St. Michael?  Don't you mean St. Christopher Pike?  Mr. Starfleet Ideal?  I guess people don't mind the sunshine pouring out of his ass, but when someone like Michael proves to be competent, they have a problem.

I disliked the Season Two finale.  But I certainly DID NOT dislike the series in general . . . especially Season One, which I loved.

Yeah, St. Michael. Proves to be competent? She is the ultimate Mary Sue. 🙄

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4 hours ago, LJones41 said:

St. Michael?  Don't you mean St. Christopher Pike?  Mr. Starfleet Ideal?  I guess people don't mind the sunshine pouring out of his ass, but when someone like Michael proves to be competent, they have a problem.

I mean considering Micheal interrupts, contradicts and all around disrespects Pike all of the time and faces no consequences, I don't think he's the Mary Sue here.

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9 hours ago, Miles said:

I mean considering Micheal interrupts, contradicts and all around disrespects Pike all of the time and faces no consequences, I don't think he's the Mary Sue here.

Yeah, I don’t see Pike being depicted as perfect. 

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The reason I can no longer stand the Michael character and will not watch next season isn't because the she is bad per se, or even that the story lines are written from a single person's perspective.

The plot is a wildly over-the-top narcissistic wankfest where not only is the whole multi-episode story arc based on Michael's emotionally-overwrought point of view, but every other character is obsessed with her, exists as it relates to her, and the fate of the entire universe rests in Michael's feelings and actions. She's the only woman Ash could ever love! She even had to be Spock's sister... how contrived is that? For two whole funking seasons. Every episode the same thing. A new planet? A new ship? A new war? A new civilization? Don't worry! It's 100% about Michael! All of time, and even parallel universes depend on her next set of tears. Give me a break.

If Micheal was a light-hearted, funny, debonair person it probably would work better for me, but she might still suck the oxygen out of all the other players.  As she is written, she's not witty or even remotely entertaining. She's either doing something she's not supposed to do, wearing bossy-pants, or weeping imploringly.

Maybe it's because in real life I'm a total team player and what I love about these starship shows is to see a team of quirky and fallible humans and aliens do awesome things through cooperation. In Discovery, this seems to happen, but only far in the background and is not the point of the plot.

All those officers on the bridge, enhanced humans, aliens... who are they? I have no idea other than they're probably far more interesting than Michael's next psychobabble drama with Emo-Spock.

Ash also got on my nerves, the writers didn't know what do to with him. His whole plot was incoherent nonsense... and the actor talks like he's got a hot potato in his mouth.

I'll miss L'Rell - she was my favorite. Calm, wise, rational and oddly beautiful.

Giorgiou was wasted... fantastic actress, great character, humor too, but I was never sure why she was hanging around. Bidding her time? She was way to powerful to be a peripheral character.

Give me a show with L'Rell and Giorgiou as co-captains, LOL.

Someone else wrote in another thread that The Orville is the true descendant of Star Trek. I wholeheartedly agree.

Edited by Toaster Strudel
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Quote

Yeah, I don’t see Pike being depicted as perfect. 

And yet, that is how many perceive him.  Well, he's gone.  And I'm not going to miss him.  I'm not into bland, ideal Starfleet types.

Quote

Someone else wrote in another thread that The Orville is the true descendant of Star Trek. I wholeheartedly agree.

The Orville is a joke to me.  I like it, but I have no respect for it.  The series is nothing more than a slavish remake of another Trek show to me and it reeks with a lack of originality.

To me, a good Trek show is to take the franchise where it has NOT gone before.  As much as I like "Next Generation", I feel it had failed in this particular endeavor, aside from the introduction of the Borg.  "Deep Space Nine", "Voyager", "Discovery" and even "Enterprise" were willing to do something new.  To a certain point.  However, none of these shows, in my personal opinion, can hold a candle to "Babylon 5".

Edited by LJones41
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I am not going to get into the weird hatred for Michael except to say that every time a lead female seems to be well liked by the other characters AND is competent at her job a Mary Sue label gets put on her.  If Michel was an idiot or the rest of the crew hated her I think a lot of people would be less harsh on her.

That being said I did like this season.   Both Pike and Spock were reasonable versions of themselves.  I liked how the season delved into Pikes ultimate fate.    

Giorgiou was underused but then I always think she is. 

Edited by Chaos Theory
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I have been a fan of Anson Mount since he starred in "HELL ON WHEELS".  But I wish to God that he had never been cast as Christopher Pike in "STAR TREK DISCOVERY".  I really do.

I believe Christopher Pike was the worst thing about Season Two of "STAR TREK DISCOVERY".  His presence on the show  seemed irrelevant to me.  Useless.  Why was there throughout the entire season?  Why was he even needed?  To provide an ideal leading male character for the more traditional fans to swoon over? 

Saru could have easily remained in command of Discovery, after the crew was given the Red Angel mission.  Pike was not needed.  Nor was that idiotic subplot regarding Pike's future as a paraplegic.  Everyone knew about his future.  There was no need to wrap it up in some "heroic choice" on Pike's part.  There was no need. 

Someone had once mentioned that Pike had always admitted to his mistakes.  There was one big mistake he never bothered to admit . . . and that was accusing Ash Tyler of contacting Section 31 behind his back.  When a regular Discovery officer proved to be the culprit, Pike never admitted his mistake or offered an apology.  Instead, his mistake was dismissed by Ash.  Speaking of Ash, the latter's conflict with Pike was badly handled.  What was the point in including it in the Season Two narrative in the first place?  Kurtzman could have spent more time exploring the situation between Ash and Hugh Culber. 

There were aspects of Season Two that I liked - Starfleet's conflict with Control, Hugh Culber's return and Michael Burnham's reunion with her mother, Gabrielle Burnham.  However, there were aspects of Season Two that I disliked.  I did not like the finale, (2.14) "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II" – like obvious plot holes and Discovery’s unnecessary trip to the future.  Also, I saw no reason for Spock to remain aboard Discovery for the entire second half of the season.  And most importantly, I saw no need for Christopher Pike to serve as the temporary commander of the U.S.S. Discovery.  I found this decision by the show runners to be completely unnecessary. 

Edited by LJones41

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Just watched the finale and can now leave this show and its mind-numbing attacks on logic behind me. Most of the illogical has already been noted. These are the ones that bugged me (but I fear the rant could be endless): 

  1.  Giorgiou continually referring to the Control AI as 'Leland'. The excessive hand-to-hand combat with an AI entity that could not be harmed was bad enough. But Giorgiou kept making it seem as it she was working out some personal vendetta against someone who no longer existed: Leland was a victim of the AI - he's not there anymore.
  2. The Control AI being completely contained in Leland's body and the entire AI fleet shutting down when that body was destroyed. Why did the AI want to engage in mixed martial arts instead of infecting Discovery's computer systems to find the precious Sphere data?
  3. Serak, Amanda and Spock never mentioning Michael again would just make them seem weird. Michael grew up on Vulcan, graduated, joined Starfleet, served on two starships and was a major part of the Klingon war: this would have left all types of evidence behind and many different groups of people would remember her and her parents.

And lastly, I don't get what the writers were attempting with the Red Signals:
  Starfleet witnessed seven signals and created a map of them. The Klingons saw one or more signals. Spock also created a map that was a near match to Startfleet's map. Maps show you where things are - they are not prophesies or predictions. After the appearance of the seven signals, another signal appears - but they never say that it matches a location on the map. They say they don't know where the signals will appear. So why does everyone think these are the same signals and there will be seven of them?!?  Only Spock's dreams of seven signals could be interpreted as a prediction - actual sightings are not predictions. 
  If you saw seven lights in the sky, you could point to where they were. If another light appeared in another location, wouldn't you  say "Hey, there's another light similar to the seven I saw previously."?
  And did the writers realize that the signal at Terralysium would have had to occurred thousands of years before the incident ... because the light from the signal would have taken that long to reach our galaxy ... because light can only travel at the speed of light? 

Edited by shrewd.buddha

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I'm now re-watching "Star Trek Next Generations".  Mind you, I still like the show very much; but . . . I'm not as impressed by it like I used to be.  I didn't realize there was a good deal of shoddy and sometimes, unoriginal writing in this series.

I'm also re-watching "Star Trek Deep Space Nine".  I think I enjoyed it more than "Next Generation".  But the further the series delves into the Dominion War, the more I find myself questioning the quality of its writing.  It's like Season Two of "Discovery" to me.  I will continue watching "Discovery".  As much as I found the second season, along with the presence of Christopher Pike and Spock rather disappointing . . . I'll still watch it.

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