S01.E12: Creep

[ellieart]

50 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes I saw that too- also the Tuskegee Study. 

That's it!  I knew there was something else parts of it reminded me of.  Thank you!

[Callaphera]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Noah watched all 20 seasons of L&O while he was in his pod? 
Obviously just kidding, but nothing else makes more sense.

He clearly didn't watch any Law and Order: SVU in there, Mr. Lemme Wait Until You Black Out to Take Advantage of You. 

7 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Noah said that a stowaway crashed the ship, which is one of the first links to the books I've seen. If so, it's possible we are looking for that stowaway and whoever moved the pods (in the books it was the owner of the UFO museum, Ray, so possibly we who are theorizing Grant Green's brother is Grant Green himself are correct). 

Normally with shows like this, I would be all "Hey! Thanks for the potential spoiler! Not all of us read the source material/watched the original!" but honestly, I'm not even sure I care with this show. Things like this just make me wonder how badly they're going to screw that up. Because they will. It's the one thing this show seems to excel at. 

13 hours ago, ellieart said:

@Callaphera...since I watched this episode after you had posted your thoughts, I made sure to pay attention to the aliens in the cells.  There may have been one POC in there, maybe, I'm not even 15% sure of that.  Most of what I saw were old, white people and the ones that got the most focus were white.  

Well, that's 14% more sure than I was. Granted, we can't tell what social status they all were on their 1947 trip by their appearance in the prison but Noah is - so far - the only confirmed POC alien, the only confirmed villainous alien, and just happened to be in a/the lower status group. I wonder if the show even knows how that comes across or if they're too busy patting themselves on the back for being, "OMG, like, so progressive, guys. It's like we're a tumblr feed come to life."

[Myrrhine]

17 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh look! New aliens! And so many of the-

Oh, never mind. Bye new aliens, including, I guess, Michael's mother?!?! Ok, well that was a waste if she's actually dead. Maybe her power is being indestructible or something. Oh, or teleportation. Or...something. Or maybe she is dead. 

17 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

Wow. That was a lot to process. 

I was definitely not expecting them to find an entire building of alien prisoners from the crash. That was unbelievably sad. I understand from a plot point why they all had to go, but I was mentally screaming at Michael to wait for Alex to work some hacker magic to unlock cells. Poor Michael. That's going to be some massive guilt he carries. 

This whole development really annoyed me from a story telling perspective. Like oh here are all the people that could answer some questions and really move the story along and - oh. Never mind. Michael (?) accidentally triggered the self destruct of the prison before rescuing any of them. Seriously. I admit it was not self-evident that the whole thing would be rigged to blow, but perhaps an approach other than try to physically smash the cells would have been prudent. This whole thing materialized in about 3 minutes and then Michael vaporized it in about the same time frame. I don't like dumping this psychic baggage on a character who is already kind of a downer, and I don't like dangling a bunch of answers in front of the characters and audience before snatching them away. 

17 hours ago, MzLiz said:

Noah totally deserves It but very surprising to see both Max and Isobel with the attitude of “let him die.” Max anyway...Isobel reminds me every time she opens her mouth what a cold hearted witch she is. I’m surprised Liz didn’t walk away after another mean girl Isobel moment.

Aww...I liked the Michael/Alex scene especially the “you’re my family” and you’re a miserable liar.”

I thought it was very reasonable to conclude that Noah probably needed to die. He is an extremely powerful alien who is also a serial killer and can take over and use vulnerable people without any remedy. If they cure him, they will also restore his powers and will have no way to keep him from killing all of them / continuing his murder spree / becoming more powerful / etc. Turning him in to the authorities seemed like it would accomplish almost nothing. He could probably easily escape and continue killing and/or expose them all. I thought it was much colder for Max to draw his gun on Michael. And it frustrated me, because I enjoy them working together, and I do not enjoy them hating each other. Nor do I enjoy that cowboy hat.

16 hours ago, Whodunnit said:

Noah killed to be stronger, not to stay alive I think. If the aliens at the death camp managed to live for 70 years without killing and presumably without acetone, then he didn't need to kill it just made him stronger.

Since people say stuff that isn't true all the time on this show, you might be right! But I thought the idea was that he was damaged by sitting in his broken pod trapped and awake for decades. 

13 hours ago, izzybee said:

Really though, wasn't Alex saying like two episodes that he and Michael barely know each other? But now they're family?

This is a really good point. I mean, he could have said something about having cared for Michael for so many years or being unwilling to let him go now when they are getting closer again. 

I will say I really liked that Alex was not convinced when Michael was yelling that he should get lost. 

AND I really liked the twist that Liz was sensing what Noah was experiencing because of the handprint, just as she had with Max. I thought it made sense with what had come before, and had some dramatic potential for putting her in conflict with Max. They didn't make much of it, but I thought it was a good detail. 

[Pepperclove]

Wow, that episode just changed everything, despite the convenient destruction of the prison at the end. As some people have pointed out, some of the aliens might have survived, depending on their powers (although this being the CW, they'd probably have to be de-aged before they could resurface - I don't think the CW allows people over 40 on their shows). I'm a bit skeptical that this show can pull off a large-scale aliens-and-government-conspiracy plot (I haven't seen the original show or read the books fyi), but I enjoy the show overall - despite the massive plot holes - so I hope it gets renewed and we get to see them try.

I thought Michael's utter disbelief and horror on seeing the aliens in cells was one of the few realistic reactions to the unthinkable that we've seen on the show. And him finding and losing his mom all at once was heartbreaking. I mostly bought the emotions between him and Alex. I think Michael has been in love with Alex all along (he started trying to move on when Alex declared them over, but I don't think he got very far). Alex has mostly been trying to deny his feelings, but the idea of Michael leaving the planet seemed to hit him hard and there's no way he would leave Michael to die in that building.

That said, after that big emotional moment between them, why on earth would Alex leave Michael alone to go see Max? The scene between Alex and Kyle at the end was excellent, but did Alex really just drop Michael off after such a life-shattering experience like, "You cool? I'm gonna go off with Kyle. I'll call you in a day or two." Seriously, show? If they want to take plot short-cuts, it would be nice if they could do a better job with the characters' emotional reactions. 

Max pulling his gun on Michael seems like a major violation of the rules of fights between brothers, although I expect that gun to go flying across the room in the next instant. I hope the two manage to talk before either does something unforgivable since they're both missing crucial pieces of information. Also, last episode seemed to be bringing the two closer together again, so it would be kind of emotional whiplash to go to a major schism between them (save that for a future season).

[shapeshifter]

17 minutes ago, Pepperclove said:

As some people have pointed out, some of the aliens might have survived, depending on their powers (although this being the CW, they'd probably have to be de-aged before they could resurface - I don't think the CW allows people over 40 on their shows)

So maybe we will see Michael's young, hot mom?

One thing missing (IIRC): Neither Max, Michael, nor Isabel were worried about Serial Killer Noah giving extraterrestrials a bad reputation. I guess they had more important problems to deal with.

[Regalbegal]

16 hours ago, izzybee said:

I don't know what the hell these writers are trying to do with this love triangle, but they truly need to quit. Their writing does not exist in a vacuum and we  are not in a place where it is socially productive to have a gay man and a black woman fighting over a (white, straight-passing) guy. We just aren't. 

This so much.  I guess the writers feel they are being provocative or progressive here, but I just don't see an approach to resolve the sl that will not be offensive in some way. 

Finally caught up on several episodes, including this one, last night.  All and all, other than the issue above, although the show is still pretty goofy I am enjoying it. The Noah reveal was not very surprising, but I think he makes an interesting villain.  The fact that Iz basically has been in love with someone who doesn't exist for so many years, who violated her trust in so many ways, is pretty horrifying,and I think Lily Cowles is doing a pretty good job with it.  I also like how the Max/Liz relationship has evolved to be more of a partnership than the original Dobler-esque tone.

 I am a marshmallow at heart, and lost my mother in the last year, so the Michael/Alex/Michael's mother scenes really did me in.  For me, Vlamis is one of the stronger actors on the show and it came through here.

Alex typically doesn't do much for me, but how he disarmed his brother was pretty hot. 

Looking forward to the season (series?  hope not) finale next week. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Regalbegal
typos

[phoenics]

7 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

It's a shame cause a good triangle is even, which is what makes it compelling IMO, cause you can see / identify with why the person in the middle is torn between two people. When it's pushed hard only one way, it comes off as a complete waste of time since there's no suspense nor drama to it. I know Carina is patting herself on the back but she really should not cause I think the two she's pushing harder are the ones with less chemistry (not that they have no chem, just less IMO, so it has to pushed more instead of letting it be organic). Not to mention, Carina's way of handling this triangle so far seems to be having Michael bond with one while having the other one not in the ep or off is some other story so they don't interact. That's just lazy.

ICAM - Michael and Maria (to me) have WAY more chemistry - and the kind that just looks more natural onscreen with the way the two actors play off each other - vs Michael and Alex.  The only time I saw real chemistry with the two of them was in the scene AFTER they made love and Alex dragged his finger across Michael's mouth.  That was HAWT - oh  and the kiss in the pilot was heat too.  But Michael & Maria actually blew both of those moments away when they got together in the desert.  That scene went so seamlessly that the ONLY gaffe in it was when Michael Vlamis was groping Heather Hemmons and nearly grabbed her boob in the heat of it - he just BARELY stopped himself.

Also - totally agree about how Carina is playing this triangle - she's literally writing it in chunks where stuff only happens when the other character isn't around.  Part of that is because she's trying to have her cake and eat it too - she wants to push Michael & Alex, but probably realizes that diehards LOVE Michael & Maria (and she couldn't have missed the chemistry) so she wants them there so OG fans don't desert wholesale - but it's not what she wants - it's basically just a token.  It's tokenism.  She's going through the motions of doing Michael & Maria but any chemistry or heat or "damn!" with them is in SPITE of her best efforts to tank them through neglect.

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, Regalbegal said:

The fact that Iz basically has been in love with someone who doesn't exist for so many years, who violated her trust in so many ways, is pretty horrifying,and I think Lily Cowles is doing a pretty good job with it.  

Given how Isobel basically has been pretending her entire life too about who and what she is to who she thought was a human guy - you could say some of this was karma.  She literally MARRIED a guy without being honest with him about who she was.

Max and Michael never got that far.  They just had sex.  But marriage is something else.

I'm not saying I blame Isobel completely but Noah basically just one upped her own lie about who she was with a much harsher whammy about who he is.

Also - Isobel continually mind rapes people without their consent.  Again, Noah just one upped her in the degree of that violation.

I can't muster much sympathy for her - especially with how gleeful she seems to be everytime she does that to someone.

Also - Carina is clearly staining Roswell with a Vampire Diaries stamp (much to my annoyance).  She's clearly channeling "Damon" vibes with Nicholas.  Damon killed humans to make himself stronger.  Without human blood he couldn't compel people - when Stefan tried, it didn't last, because Stefan didn't drink human blood.  Damon was much stronger as a vampire because he did.  

Also - Liz's death serum = vervain.

Carina is basically ripping off the OG Roswell show from a character and story origin perspective, but she's creating mirror characters from The Vampire Diaries (Nicholas = Damon, Max = Stefan) and plot elements (like vervain mirroring Liz's death serum).

It's infuriating and why this show doesn't really FEEL like Roswell.  Even the books managed to have that "Roswell" magic.  

I did think this episode was interesting and it moved - but I agree with the problematic elements and the whiplash plots.  I also think the show uses too many people from Julie Plec's Vampire Diaries universe - it hurts the show and prevents it from being quintessentially ROSWELL and not some TVD with Aliens mashup.

[Regalbegal]

59 minutes ago, phoenics said:

ICAM - Michael and Maria (to me) have WAY more chemistry - and the kind that just looks more natural onscreen with the way the two actors play off each other - vs Michael and Alex.

See, for me it is the opposite - I see a lot more chemistry between Michael/Alex and Michael/Maria seem forced (because of OG Roswell, IMO).  At the same time, I really like the character of Maria and the actress who plays her, and she deserves far better than how this has been written.  Either way, with the way that they have set up and written the triangle, I can't see any resolution that won't be offensive to me on some level.   I don't think the writers are really up to dealing with the gender, orientation, and race contextual considerations they have kicked up with this SL.  

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

I'm not saying I blame Isobel completely but Noah basically just one upped her own lie about who she was with a much harsher whammy about who he is.

Good point. And good irony.
  
  
 

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

Even the books managed to have that "Roswell" magic

I thought the books had more "magic" than the OG show—although both started out strong and then flagged, IMO, but I can't really remember the books—just that I liked them enough to reread them multiple times. This show has bits of magic, which I'm still watching for. I just wish there was a little more magic. But the writing needs more editing, and most of the cast is weak.

Edited April 18, 2019 by shapeshifter

[KittenPokerCheater]

Well, I watched the episode on my laptop and I think it would have resonated more for me if I'd been able to watch it on a larger screen.

I'm irritated because I feel like everyone is safe.  I'm not worried that any of the characters are in peril. The showrunners have indicated that they will not kill off POC or someone who is sexually fluid  and that seems to be a large portion of the cast (five of the eight- seven, now that Cameron has left the show).  And I am very pleased to see diversity on a tv show (yay! It's about damn time) but I'm not worried that the pod squad or their friends will die.  

I feel like they are trying to do too much in these last few episodes, and it's so plot heavy that some moments aren't resonating with me.  I wish they would have spread this out over more episodes.

So did Noah kill the 14 people because he liked the power, or because he needed it to survive, or both?  And how did he escape when everyone else was captured and sent to the prison/internment camp?

[methodwriter85]

14 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I knew it was Kayla Ewell, who was on the Vampire Diaries with Michael Trevino, but man, that WOULD have been a great cameo! 

I really thought it was Maggie Grace, but then I remembered she doesn't wear her hair long and blonde anymore.

[Whodunnit]

So I guess the scene with Michael's mother this episode confirms that Michael and the Evans are not biological siblings. I mean, if she had been their mother she would probably have asked about them.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Whodunnit

[Cristofle]

40 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

So I guess the scene with Michael's mother this episode confirms that Michael and the Evans are not biological siblings. I mean, if she had been their mother she would probably have asked about them.

It also seems to be heading in a direction that diverges from both the books and the OG show in a key way, indicating that the Pod Squad had lives and relationships prior to being in the pods. 

[phoenics]

On 4/17/2019 at 8:33 AM, Cristofle said:

Noah said that a stowaway crashed the ship, which is one of the first links to the books I've seen. If so, it's possible we are looking for that stowaway and whoever moved the pods (in the books it was the owner of the UFO museum, Ray, so possibly we who are theorizing Grant Green's brother is Grant Green himself are correct). 

Small correction.  Ray was the one who moved their pods in the books, but he was not the stowaway.  That was DuPris.

So right now we're trying to figure out if GG/GG is Ray and good or if he's more like DuPris and evil.  I feel like Noah is more like Nicholas.  I'm still really hoping for a DuPris character.

[phoenics]

On 4/17/2019 at 8:49 AM, shapeshifter said:

When Noah said that, I immediately recalled that Stowaway was the title of one of the books.
Now that I type this and realize it was sort of shoehorned in this late in the series, I wonder if Carina is contractually obligated to include a specified amount of book-based material?
Like maybe she really wanted to reboot the show, but she's supposed to be reimagining the books?

Honestly if I was rebooting the show and I had the books as additional source material, the result would be WAY better than this.

Carina is creating The Vampire Diaries with Aliens.  She's using the structure of the OG Show for some plot elements, and some stuff from the books, but she's making the characters into TVD-lite characters.

Nicholas = Damon.  Liz = Elena. 

Maria = Bonnie (lost her canon relationship and relegated to a plot device of "witch" just like Maria will be the "psychic", canon importance from books and OG show diminished).  

Liz's Serum = Vervain.

Max = Stefan.

Isobel = Caroline - just not as desperate - but definitely a mean girl.

Michael = A weird mashup of OGMax+OGMichael (which angers me)

Alex = no idea.  He's not Alex from the books or the show.  He's an enigma.  Maybe he's more like Alex from the books after he came back through the wormhole but he's still not really because he's not funny at all.

Kyle = boring as hell, so who cares.

[shapeshifter]

28 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Honestly if I was rebooting the show and I had the books as additional source material, the result would be WAY better than this.

Carina is creating The Vampire Diaries with Aliens.  She's using the structure of the OG Show for some plot elements, and some stuff from the books, but she's making the characters into TVD-lite characters.

Nicholas = Damon.  Liz = Elena. 

Maria = Bonnie (lost her canon relationship and relegated to a plot device of "witch" just like Maria will be the "psychic", canon importance from books and OG show diminished).  

Liz's Serum = Vervain.

Max = Stefan.

Isobel = Caroline - just not as desperate - but definitely a mean girl.

Michael = A weird mashup of OGMax+OGMichael (which angers me)

Alex = no idea.  He's not Alex from the books or the show.  He's an enigma.  Maybe he's more like Alex from the books after he came back through the wormhole but he's still not really because he's not funny at all.

Kyle = boring as hell, so who cares.

I don't watch vampire shows, so I'm not familiar, but it sounds like possibly TPTB may have "ordered" Carina to make it "like Vampire Diaries."

[Chick2Chic]

Isn't she a Plec protégé? That would totally make sense with how RNM is TVD with Aliens (as well as the uneven pacing, plotting, and writing?) Carina also seems too fangirl about a character & a ship, much like Plec, that she's lost sight of crafting something well rounded. 

Maybe Kyle is TVD Matt.

I saw the Roswell NM Writers have a twitter acct but I haven't been brave enough to go through it yet.

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I don't watch vampire shows, so I'm not familiar, but it sounds like possibly TPTB may have "ordered" Carina to make it "like Vampire Diaries."

I really really hope not.  Honestly I think this is just part and parcel of Carina being a young, inexperienced showrunner.  When you look at how she's made a fanfiction of the OGShow with a little bit of the books (character names only really), that feels more like her.  And her influences have all been TVD and Julie Plec's universe so it makes sense she'd be biased by that.

But TVD was literally a pale imitation of OG Roswell, so new Roswell is basically a pale imitation of a pale imitation.  With aliens.

I cannot express how much that irritates me.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

But TVD was literally a pale imitation of OG Roswell, so new Roswell is basically a pale imitation of a pale imitation.  With aliens.

Even though I haven't watched TVD, this^ sounds like an accurate description of this show.

[ellieart]

As someone who never watched TVD, but is familiar enough with it, I'll second @shapeshifter's assessment.  That's the most accurate description of this show I've ever heard.  But I guess since it's all Carina knows...

Edited April 19, 2019 by ellieart

[phoenics]

14 hours ago, ellieart said:

As someone who never watched TVD, but is familiar enough with it, I'll second @shapeshifter's assessment.  That's the most accurate description of this show I've ever heard.  But I guess since it's all Carina knows...

I think that was my assessment? Unless I'm misunderstanding you?

Edited April 19, 2019 by phoenics

[ellieart]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

I think that was my assessment? Unless I'm misunderstanding you?

Oh no, I meant as someone else who had never seen TVD, I was seconding their comment!  Sorry, it was late and my mind was completely burned out after a work day to make much sense.  You're 100% right on with the comparisons.

[phoenics]

30 minutes ago, ellieart said:

Oh no, I meant as someone else who had never seen TVD, I was seconding their comment!  Sorry, it was late and my mind was completely burned out after a work day to make much sense.  You're 100% right on with the comparisons.

Gotcha - and actually I've only watched a bit from the first season and some later seasons, but I've never made it through one whole season myself, so... 

I just watched a Roswell episode from Season 1 and the two shows really are light years apart in tone.  They borrow similar plot points but Roswell was magical and mysterious, while RNM feels mysterious but without the stakes.

After 12 episodes, I can't figure out why Isobel, Max and Michael stayed hidden.  A ton of people know who they are - including Jesse Manes (who leads Project Kill them all) - yet Michael had NO FEAR walking into a secret government prison.

I just - WTAF.

I'm watching the episode where Nacedo tells the podsquad that Agent Pierce is closer to them than anyone has EVER gotten and you can feel the fear, suspense and DANGER reverberating off the walls.

[ellieart]

It's so true.  I've been doing my rewatch and there was always a lingering fear for them.  You felt the danger they were in before Pierce ever appeared onscreen.  Even when they went to the military base to rescue Max, you could tell how scared they were and knew that they were always thisclose to getting caught.

I can't even chalk up the cavalier attitude these new characters have towards their predicament as them being adults.  As an adult, if I was in this situation, you bet your ass I would be terrified and would never just casually walk into some government prison if there was a chance I could end up in worse trouble than I was already in.  It's such a weird show and the tone and the writing don't match up very well.  Even the villains don't come off as that big and bad at this point.  They've built up Jesse Manes and he's barely done anything.  And Noah was just recently revealed and his motives aren't clear yet and they just seem more pissed at him than afraid.  It's strange. 

For all the weird slip ups the original show had, the tone at least stayed pretty consistent, balanced and the stakes were always high.  They also weren't afraid to be fun and play into the camp once in awhile, which made it easier to watch.  Sometimes (most of the time) this one feels like a chore to sit through.  

Edited April 19, 2019 by ellieart

[Artsda]

On 4/17/2019 at 12:33 PM, Chick2Chic said:

The Michael/Maria/Alex triangle is completely lopsided.  I hope Maria gets a better storyline - it's obvious who the showrunner wants to push.  Poor Maria just looks like she'll be cannon fodder.  It's a gross triangle for that reason.

Michael and Maria are so much more entertaining to watch, this Alex/Michael just falls flat and I don't believe it.

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, ellieart said:

It's so true.  I've been doing my rewatch and there was always a lingering fear for them.  You felt the danger they were in before Pierce ever appeared onscreen.  Even when they went to the military base to rescue Max, you could tell how scared they were and knew that they were always thisclose to getting caught.

I can't even chalk up the cavalier attitude these new characters have towards their predicament as them being adults.  As an adult, if I was in this situation, you bet your ass I would be terrified and would never just casually walk into some government prison if there was a chance I could end up in worse trouble than I was already in.  It's such a weird show and the tone and the writing don't match up very well.  Even the villains don't come off as that big and bad at this point.  They've built up Jesse Manes and he's barely done anything.  And Noah was just recently revealed and his motives aren't clear yet and they just seem more pissed at him than afraid.  It's strange. 

For all the weird slip ups the original show had, the tone at least stayed pretty consistent, balanced and the stakes were always high.  They also weren't afraid to be fun and play into the camp once in awhile, which made it easier to watch.  Sometimes (most of the time) this one feels like a chore to sit through.  

Exactly.  I cannot for the life of me figure out why they are keeping hidden.  They don't seem afraid of anything.  And what kind of government facility has NO cameras?  And Jesse already knows all about them?

pfft.

That fear - in the OG show - was one of the best threads all season.  When it seemed like Pearce was closing in on them - whew - that was just amazing.  The part where Isobel and Michael were leading that FBI agent on a chase, hiding behind a partition at the last minute with Isobel exclaiming "The is a nightmare!" was so good.  The part where she's freaking out that this is even happening was so realistic.  The show lost something when it lost that scary big government boogeyman.  When they brought it back in S3 it wasn't nearly as good.

But here?  It's non-existent.  

Noah isn't even a scary pale imitation of Damon - who was absolutely terrifying early on in TVD S1.  I could barely make it through those episodes he scared me so bad.

Also - this show shouldn't have dropped the "connection" piece - that really gave the OGShow and even the books much more of an edge.  Maybe them getting flashes from objects isn't in the books (though I think it is) but the connection between Max and Liz was a huge deal.  I'm NOT happy if Carina thinks she can give that to Michael & Alex and not Max & Liz.  That would be fundamentally changing the characters too far and I'll be super pissed if she does that.

Which means she's going to do it.  I can just see Liz & Max unable to have a real connection because Liz is so closed off.

Carina killed most of the stuff that people LOVED the old show for.

When this show came back I really was so happy because I thought I'd gotten my epic star crossed Dream couple back - with the mystery of charm of the original books and the intense connection they shared.  Instead, Carina has farmed some of that out to her favorite couple, sidelined a racebent Maria and short changed Max/Liz.

I get madder about this week after week, lol.

The show is sometimes entertaining, but it's nowhere close as good as the original.

Edited April 20, 2019 by phoenics

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, Artsda said:

Michael and Maria are so much more entertaining to watch, this Alex/Michael just falls flat and I don't believe it.

Agreed - Alex/Michael feels unearned and forced.  I really think Carina misstepped by trying to give them Max/Liz canon beats from the books and show ("Cosmic connection" my ass).

[peachmangosteen]

On 4/17/2019 at 5:55 PM, Pepperclove said:

I enjoy the show overall - despite the massive plot holes - so I hope it gets renewed and we get to see them try.

Same. I mean listen, the show is stupid and it has tons of issues, but I enjoy the hell outta it. You kinda just have to accept that it's not gonna really make sense, keep yourself from ever reading any tweets/interviews with the writers/cast, and go along for the ride. 

On 4/17/2019 at 9:44 PM, KittenPokerCheater said:

I'm irritated because I feel like everyone is safe.  I'm not worried that any of the characters are in peril ... I'm not worried that the pod squad or their friends will die.  

See, I like that. I'm over worrying all the time that they're going to kill off characters for shock value.

Even though the melodrama between Alex/Michael was ridiculous and unearned and even though I don't particularly ship them, I still awwed when Alex said, "You're my family!" The acting was real bad in that scene though, so I was also kinda laughing the whole time.

This episode was too sad for me. I like it better when I can more easily laugh at everything, which is kinda hard when there's so much rape and Nazi allusions going on. On the one hand, I appreciate that they're trying to say something but like many, particularly @Callaphera, have said, they don't really go there or say anything beyond the surface and in turn sort of just manage to be offensive lol.

Ugh, just so much ugh, to Maria once again being completely absent. If they get another season (and I really hope they do) they either need to actually do something with her and just keep her off the show. Them marginalizing her so much just isn't a good look and they'd be better off just having her leave town or something imo.

Edited April 20, 2019 by peachmangosteen

[Callaphera]

7 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This episode was too sad for me. I like it better when I can more easily laugh at everything, which is kinda hard when there's so much rape and Nazi allusions going on. On the one hand, I appreciate that they're trying to say something but like many, particularly @Callaphera, have said, they don't really go there or say anything beyond the surface and in turn sort of just manage to be offensive lol.

Heh. I'm using this show to warm up my outrage muscles for the BB21 live feeds. Gotta keep that shit limber so I don't pull something during one of my multi-day rants. 

[Jacks-Son]

On 4/16/2019 at 7:39 PM, Jenniferbug said:

I'm a little frustrated by how Isobel and Max seemed so uninterested in finding out more about themselves. They know Michael would want answers so why not ask. If Noah can't lie in the dreamscape (not sure why they're so sure of that, but whatever) then why not ask him point blank "who are we? Where are we from?" Etc. I know, I know...plot reasons. 

I understand your frustration.  You have all the answers you've been seeking in front of you why NOT ask?  Unfortunately, as always happens when one party has all the leverage, Noah is not going to give up squat.  He'll stall, make up shit, and procrastinate ad nauseum.  I'm with Max, Isobel, and Cameron, waste the MoFo.  I acknowledge that I can't possibly be in the three alien's shoes, but for me, no amount of knowledge is worth allowing this piece of shit to live a second longer.

The storyline that I find depressing is the depiction that when presented with an Alien ship crash landing on American soil, the first thing to do is to kill them all.  Noah looked like a human when he was hiding, and judging by the others in detainment cells, the others looked human also.  They may have looked alien initially and shifted their appearance, but if that is beyond their capabilities, then to just kill aliens mercilessly without at least attempting to communicate with them is heinous and I find that depiction a sad testament to what fantasy writers think we, as humans, would do.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I agree with you @Jacks-Son.  It is sad, but in a way it dovetails with Michael’s reluctance to trust humans.  

Going forward, I wonder if Michael is going to somehow blame himself for his Mothers/other alien’s death.  I mean, the place would not have gone into self destruct mode if he hadn’t broken the glass on his mother’s celll.  Death may have been a kinder option for them (being tortured for 70 years and all), but still, I can see him feeling responsible for the death of his family/kind.  I think that + the cruelty of humans is going to give Michael even more motivation to leave the planet.

And I wouldn’t blame him.  😞

I can also see how this whole experience might create some (more?) self loathing- not being “worthy of any kind of love.”  But maybe the writers will ignore that and just have him fall into he arms of Michael/Maria.

Edited April 23, 2019 by KittenPokerCheater

[Jacks-Son]

6 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I think that + the cruelty of humans is going to give Michael even more motivation to leave the planet.

And I wouldn’t blame him.  😞

Global migration to another planet may be our only option eventually.  I wonder how peaceable the reception would be.

[AudienceofOne]

On 4/17/2019 at 9:26 PM, Cristofle said:

I believe Alex either has four brothers or is one of four (I think it's the former, but I can't be sure). It's been mentioned a few times. 

He's one of four according to some piece of exposition early on. All decorated military too according to that same piece of exposition.

On 4/18/2019 at 6:30 AM, Callaphera said:

Granted, we can't tell what social status they all were on their 1947 trip by their appearance in the prison but Noah is - so far - the only confirmed POC alien, the only confirmed villainous alien, and just happened to be in a/the lower status group. I wonder if the show even knows how that comes across or if they're too busy patting themselves on the back for being, "OMG, like, so progressive, guys. It's like we're a tumblr feed come to life."

Oh God, these shows always make the same damn mistake. They cast the core characters from the bright white YA source and then they decide to be "progressive" by surrounding them with POC characters or gay characters. But those characters are the ones that die or get tortured or turn into crazed stalkers or are secretly evil. And suddenly all your gays are dead and your POCs are villains and they're left wondering how it happened. 

On 4/18/2019 at 11:13 AM, Regalbegal said:

See, for me it is the opposite - I see a lot more chemistry between Michael/Alex and Michael/Maria seem forced (because of OG Roswell, IMO).  At the same time, I really like the character of Maria and the actress who plays her, and she deserves far better than how this has been written.  Either way, with the way that they have set up and written the triangle, I can't see any resolution that won't be offensive to me on some level.   I don't think the writers are really up to dealing with the gender, orientation, and race contextual considerations they have kicked up with this SL.  

As a purely casual viewer who bingewatched this show and is now commenting assiduously on all the recaps like a crazy person, I have zero interest in a ship war. ZERO. And so I have avoided saying what I'm about to say. I completely agree with you. I feel like Michael and Maria have some shallow, casual flirty thing going on and that Michael is in love with Alex and will always be in love with Alex. And I don't think it's fair to a character - whether their relationship is canon or otherwise - to be the safe choice someone clings to because the relationship with the person they really love has just gotten too complicated. And that's what I see here. I see way more genuine complicated chemistry, attraction, romance and feelings between Malex than whatever Maria and Michael's ship name is. And in the real world, Maria would get very badly hurt by what is inevitably going to go down. 

On 4/20/2019 at 9:30 AM, ellieart said:

I can't even chalk up the cavalier attitude these new characters have towards their predicament as them being adults.  As an adult, if I was in this situation, you bet your ass I would be terrified and would never just casually walk into some government prison if there was a chance I could end up in worse trouble than I was already in.  It's such a weird show and the tone and the writing don't match up very well.  Even the villains don't come off as that big and bad at this point.  They've built up Jesse Manes and he's barely done anything.  And Noah was just recently revealed and his motives aren't clear yet and they just seem more pissed at him than afraid.  It's strange.

One episode I remember really liking from the original TV show (and I know this is true because it's almost the only episode I actually remember) is one where this alien hunter takes Max into the desert because he's convinced he's this ageless alien serial killer. And Valenti comes out and stops him from hurting Max and Max turns on him and says, "Why are you doing this to me, I'm just a kid". And Valenti has this moment of realisation that this is a kid. Whether he's an alien or not, he's still just a kid. And the whole sense of menace just flips in a heart beat  because the endless grinding terror of this sheriff harassing them was destroying them. And this show has none of that. For a show that's supposed to be about refugees and spending your life in fear of the people and the society around you all the time, none of that unrelenting low-level fear is present. And it's a real shame because that fear should define these people. The only person it seems to define is Liz and it's weird, like she's supposed to be the only immigrant in a show about alien immigrants.