S05.E04: Chapter Eighty-Five

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

After talking to everyone else about what is going on in her life, Jane turns to Petra, who she knows will give her a straight answer. In return, Petra leans on Jane for advice about JR. Xo is determined to be at grandparents' day for Mateo but still has one more chemo treatment. Meanwhile, Alba is getting mixed messages from Jorge about their relationship.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/17/19

[Lady Calypso]

This episode was just depressing all around.

I mean, besides Petra/JR getting back together, everything else turned out...blah. 

Xo has a little health scare that seems to be ok. I did like the scene with her and Rogelio at the end. I like this version of Rogelio.

Alba gets her heart broken by Jorge.

Oh, and the Love Triangle of Doom rears its ugly head and, with it, the ugly side of Rafael returns. If the show wants me to root for Rafael/Jane, this isn't the way to do it. Turning him back into the egoistical scared asshole he was in the early seasons is exactly why I was glad they ended the triangle, both when Jane married Michael and when Michael died and Jane had four years to grieve, move on, and choose Rafael. This is why I hate Michael's resurrection. 

Poor Michael. He gets his memories back but is feeling lost and like two different people. Jane finally comes to her senses when she discovers that Michael's back (and how sweet that she could look at Michael and just know that it's him?), but falters with the divorce papers due to rightfully being confused. 

And Rafael...kicks Jane out of their home and breaks up with her. Oh joy. I know we're supposed to feel bad for him and I did in the first episode, but in episode four, when that's all he's worried about? Nah, I'm good. I don't need this from Rafael right now. He can only think about his it sucks for him that Michael's back and that he's stuck in a love triangle again. Ok, sure, it was super hard for him to move on but....c'mon, man. Your girlfriend just found out that her husband really IS back now and his first instinct is to....throw a hissy fit by kicking her out in front of their son? Yeah, real fucking cool, Rafael. 

And we're only on episode four. We have fifteen episodes of this left. They're moving WAY too fast. Also, Michael's a nonentity since he doesn't really get to voice his feelings much but we have seven minutes of Rafael moping about Jane/Michael again. I was pissed off from that shit in seasons 1 & 2. I don't need this in season 5. 

[cardigirl]

I enjoyed the episode for the most part, especially all of the dialogue that was kind of pointed at the conversations the viewers have been having over the past year and a half since Michael's return.  The show can be very self-aware.

I didn't like Rafael telling Jane to leave, I thought that was rather mean of him, especially with Mateo being somewhat petulant about Daddy.  I've never liked the way Mateo is portrayed.  He mostly comes across as incredibly spoiled (to me) and I don't know why they write him that way, although he and Xo were very cute at the Grandparents Day.

Jane and Petra are fantastic together. Especially drinking.  LOL. 

I had hoped for a more emotional moment between Jane and Michael when she realized his memories were back, but I guess the hug on the porch last week was meant to be it.

Still invested enough to keep watching.

[mrsbagnet]

I kind of liked that Rafael kicked Jane out. Yes, it was mean, but I don't blame him for not wanting to suffer again. He needs to think about protecting himself in this situation -- the same way that Alba was planning to do before Jorge came back. Rafael has been through a lot with Jane. If she needs to figure out what she wants, she can do it on her own time. It would be cruel to make him sit and watch while she waffles back and forth. It is just unfortunate that Mateo has to be involved in it.

I can't believe that the family misinterpreted Alba's "I felt it." Why would they even think she'd say something like it? 😂

[ScrapNini]

Gah!   I have said it before, but I will say it again.... I hate that they brought Michael back.  Both Jane and RAF have grown so much as people in the last four years.  Michael was a childhood play thing (yes, I realize they were adults, but they were young...) people grow and they don’t necessarily grow together.  Jane is not the same girl she used to be.  She is stronger, and more confident.

 Michael doesn’t want the person Jane is now... he wants the Jane she was at 23.  Her family is with Raf, her best self is on display around him, she is never afraid to tell him what she wants or needs.  

In writing her and Michael’s “love story” she created a fantasy out of her relationship with Michael.  It will never have the happy ending she wrote.

This is so infuriating.  I would so much rather see other loose ends get tied up than watch the simpering Michael continue to emotionally manipulate Jane.

((I know, it is pretty lonely in the I Hate Michael Club; but if you want  to join, membership is free and we have a secret handshake.)) 😊

[twoods]

I cried during every Michael and Jane scene. I can’t help it- I thought there wouldn’t be anymore. They still have such an easy and light chemistry. I can see why Michael wants Jane back because to him, there has never been anyone else. She got four years to grieve and move on with her life while he had amnesia and made a new life for himself in Montana but only got his memories back now. I don’t blame him for wanting her back.

I do blame Raf for being an ass. He didn’t even let Jane digest for a few days that Michael’s memories are back. She seems to be hesitant about the divorce more out of guilt than not loving Raf, but he didn’t let her figure things out and threw her out in the middle of the night. I get that he’s upset and is tired of being the second choice, but there is no excuse for him to be a jerk. I was even pissed when he was smirking and happy that Jason was “finally” leaving to go back to Montana. Michael gets tortured and taken away from his life for 4 years, yet it’s all about how much of an inconvenience it is for Raf and Jane.

Loving this version of Rogelio. I am still waiting for his reunion with Michael.

Edited April 18, 2019 by twoods

[tennisgurl]

I know this shows always moves at a breakneck pace, but this all seems to be going so fast! I mean, Jane just found out that Michael is alive, and even more just now, that he has his memory back. Yeah, she is going to need to take a minute to deal with all of that and figure out what she is going to do next. I mean, its not like Michael is an ex that she broke up with awhile ago who she just ran into again, he was her husband who she loved and shared a life with and mourned terribly when he supposedly died. Its not as easy as just filing divorce papers and moving on, there is a lot more to unpack there. 

I get that this is an awful situation for everyone, but I think that Rafael acted like a total ass when he kicked Jane out because she couldn't answer right away what she wanted to do. She just found out about Michael being Michael again, just give her a second! I know that the show will have Jane get together with him again, so this all just seems to exist to hold off until the inevitable end where Michael does the gentlemanly thing and bows out so Jane and Rafael can be together, and he will just disappear. Not looking forward to any of that.

Again, no one seems to care about how Michael was tortured and how his whole world has moved on, now its all about how much it sucks for everyone else. At least Jane had some nice moments with him, especially when she knew who he was as soon as she saw him. Awww, thats the Jane and Michael I remember. 

Glad that Petra and JR are happy at least. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved Petra and Jane day drinking and giving each other advice.

I also loved Rogelio's reaction to finding out that Michael had his memory back.

While I understand Rafael's need to protect himself, kicking Jane out was harsh. She just found out less than 24 hours ago that Michael got his memories back. Maybe give her a minute.

And I'm sorry, but it's unfair to ask her if she still loves Michael. I still love my first boyfriend in a special way but that doesn't mean I'm going to leave Mr. EB for him. You can love someone deeply and have a history and still choose not to be with them.

Jane will always love Michael no matter what. I don't think anyone would dispute that fact. But that doesn't mean that she's automatically going to choose to pick up their relationship where it left off four years ago. Instead of giving her a few days to process the latest revelation, Raf just goes off the deep end and tells her to move out of their new home. SLOW YOUR FUCKING ROLL, RAFAEL.

I'm not a shipper so I have no horse in this race. I just want Jane to be happy and I hate that Rafael isn't giving her a little bit of time to take it all in and come to terms with everything.

[JayCeeJ]

6 hours ago, ScrapNini said:

Gah!   I have said it before, but I will say it again.... I hate that they brought Michael back.  Both Jane and RAF have grown so much as people in the last four years.  Michael was a childhood play thing (yes, I realize they were adults, but they were young...) people grow and they don’t necessarily grow together.  Jane is not the same girl she used to be.  She is stronger, and more confident.

 Michael doesn’t want the person Jane is now... he wants the Jane she was at 23.  Her family is with Raf, her best self is on display around him, she is never afraid to tell him what she wants or needs.  

In writing her and Michael’s “love story” she created a fantasy out of her relationship with Michael.  It will never have the happy ending she wrote.

This is so infuriating.  I would so much rather see other loose ends get tied up than watch the simpering Michael continue to emotionally manipulate Jane.

((I know, it is pretty lonely in the I Hate Michael Club; but if you want  to join, membership is free and we have a secret handshake.)) 😊

You're not alone. I've never liked Michael and his return is not a good twist for the show. I don't want to revisit the triangle. I want to see Jane and Raf move forward and bring the other storylines to a satisfying conclusion by season's end.

[cardigirl]

I have always loved Michael, and Jane and Michael's relationship, but I am trying to be open-minded and see the appeal of Rafael and this episode did nothing to enlighten me as to why I should be rooting for him.  Goodness, all he does is throw around ultimatums to Jane and when she doesn't answer him fast enough, he takes their son, and kicks her out!  

He's so good with Xo and with Alba.  But with Jane, he only seems to be happy with her if things are going his way.  And he has always been this way with her. He issues commands all the time. I've been re-watching the past seasons, and that seems like a lot of what their relationship is, Rafael commanding her, and Jane trying to figure out how to keep him happy.  Ugh.  

Granted, he did NOT have to go get Michael when Rose told him he was alive.  That was a true act of love, to let her know Michael was still here, but I think he was hoping the amnesia would protect him a bit.

I understand that he is scared of losing her, but tightening his grip by issuing demands is a sure way to lose that battle, in my opinion. Jane isn't wishy washy because she's surfacey, she's trying to figure things out, and Michael told her he still loves her and wants to be with her, but he also wants her to be happy. I don't think Rafael has said that to her yet this season.

Edited April 18, 2019 by cardigirl

[BonnieD]

Quote

Xo has a little health scare that seems to be ok. I did like the scene with her and Rogelio at the end. I like this version of Rogelio.

I'm feeling very sure Xo is not making it to the end of this series and this little health scare is to prepare the viewers for her ending. I don't think they can end this soap opera without a character dying (really dying with no silly games about amnesia). I do love the way the writers are able to easily switch back and forth between camp and true drama.

I'm not a Rafael fan at all, but observing the relationships dispassionately, I can certainly understand why he's saying "enough's enough. I've been through this before." He has never felt good enough or truly chosen. This is not an egotistical man but a weak and self doubting one, (not to mention parental issues). During Michael's return, he has attempted to be the new and improved Rafael, patient, understanding, undemanding, but this wavering on Jane's part was the icing on the cake. Of course, he should continue to hold on and give her time, but fear overcame logic. Don't fault him for expressing his disappointment and doubts, but the stupid thing was that he asked her to leave THAT VERY NIGHT, IMMEDIATELY.

Triangle tropes are a pain, but I think they're making this fairly interesting. There are no winners or losers here, just three very upset and entangled people.
I'm still on board for that threesome relationship. It's a brave new world, why are couples still the only option 😉 for a happily ever after?

[Bouffe]

Petra and Jane daydrinking was THA BEST. It was so funny!!!

The scene between Xo and Mateo, immediately followed by Xo getting weak was so great and then so sad. I love that the writers can go from fun and frivolous to drama and sadness.

Ro and his love for Michael is so cute. I love how Ro's character has evolved. From dramatic and extremely self-centered to caring and loving and still dramatic but at time self effacing... I'm loving this new Ro.

Alba... Oh that was sad. I feel like Jorge loves her too but wants to protect himself as well. That "I felt it" moment made me laugh so much!!!

And onto the inevitable Michael/Jane/Raphael triangle... Ugh, ugh, ugh. All three characters have a right to feel the way they feel!!!! I don't like that Michael hung around to try and get Jane back. I don't like that Jane is hesitant in the way she feels. I don't like that Raphael asked Jane to leave. But I can understand why all three acted the way they did. Michael may feel like two different persons, but all he knows is that he loves Jane... How can anyone fault him for trying to get her back? Jane has always and will always love Michael. And while that doesn't mean she wants to be back with him, it's understandable that she's hesitant about saying no to him and yes to the divorce (plus that catholic guilt thing). And how can anyone fault Raphael for trying to protect his heart, when he is brought back to years prior, when he was waiting around for Jane to decide who she wanted to be with? One of those three will inevitably "lose", and I don't like that. I love all three characters.

[BAH]

I feel like the right thing to do for both men is to back off and let Jane get her head together. I adore Michael but didn’t like that he said “I know what I want” to her so soon after he just got their memories back. It’s like he doesn’t care that she’s with Rafael, the way Rafael didn’t care that Jane was engaged when he first pursued her. He needs to go back to Montana and give her time.  But of course he won’t, bc it’s a telenovela!

i am just ambivalent about Cordueva now, because it’s just wreaking so much havoc, especially on Mateo.  

[Acceleration]

I really don't get why people think Rafael was being irrational??? Granted, I'm not really married to the idea of Jane ending up with neither guy, but I feel like everyone is expecting all of them to be these extremely rational people in a very sticky situation.

Rafael was patient with Jane and gave her the space to to process when Jason entered the picture. The fact that Michael was an issue that arose and yet again, he made the honestly reasonable demand that she send in the divorce papers. I feel like, either way, she'd need to get to learn who Michael 2.0 is, because this guy doesn't like cubanos, which tells me that the writers are either going for a Jafael endgame or they are building up to something very interesting with the format and as some suggested in the spoilerthread (this is only speculation) that there is a real ending and a "narrative ending", suggesting that the show might be the telenovela version of Janes real life story?

I don't like the love triangle that much, but I gotta say, in this situation, every character is acting as actual human beings would and it tracks, based on what we know about them. I don't see Michael as a bad guy for wanting Jane back, I don't see Rafael as unreasonable for asking Jane to move out (since he knows she always has a space with both Alba and with her parent) especially since he always lost in the battle for Jane's heart previously.

I do question Jane a lot more, but if I put myself in her shoes, I wouldn't know how to act or what to do either. I do believe though that I would send in the divorce papers, mostly because that marriage really did end when Michael died. If they were to get back together, which I honestly wouldn't mind, I would like for them to start fresh. So for me, I get why Rafael felt that he had to protect himself and I can imagine that had she just sent in the papers and still been honest with him about the conflicting emotions, I feel that he'd probably respond better. But we'll never know...

I am still excited about this season though and can't believe it's our final hours with these lovely characters!

[Simba122504]

Raf is not Jane's lap dog or MPDD. I understand Jane's confusion and Rafael's fears. Rafael removed himself from the situation and self-love is key. He and Jane need a break right now. He's already played this game years ago and it's not healthy. It's definitely not good for Mateo who isn't a baby anymore. He can see the tension between his parents. Faking it is way worse than taking a break. Solano is supposed to sit back and wait hoping it goes in his favor? That's not realistic. Yes, he brought Michael back, but Raf is not here to be a cheerleader for J/M.  The episode was full of funny moments and depressing moments. But that's JTV. Jane & Petra day drinking was comedy gold. I truly believe Alba and Jorge will work out. Alba is a real one. Alba, "I felt it." Everyone's reactions. Hilarious. Alba would never say something like that. Of course, she was talking about feelings. lol

[miasth]

Throughout the episode I kept thinking walk away Rafael.  You have been down this road before and it did not end well.  Then surely his memory comes back and he tells Jane to leave.  Harsh, but I understand why.  Jane had a place to go so it was not like her tossed her into the street.  

She is conflicted and that is understandable.   I do not think at this point she is capable of making a decision either way that she would not regret. She probably should have just taken time away from both of them in order to process and figure out how to move forward.

Michael feels like he is 2 people and still does not like cubanos.  I think that is very important as I don't believe he will ever fully be Michael again and a new person might come about; one who is a combination of Michael & Jason.  Jane loves the Michael she remembers not the person he is now.  The same way Michael loves the Jane he knew 4 years ago.  Once they get to know each other they might realize that they can no longer be what they were.

I was never a Michael/Jane fan as some of his behavior and actions toward her bothered me.  I like Jane and Rafael round 2, but Michael's return has put a blemish in it.  

[Backwards999]

I'm actually super proud of how Rafael handled the situation. He's dealt with the same thing time and time again. He removed himself from a toxic situation...Go Rafael!

It's a hard situation all the way around. I don't think anyone is handling it unfairly. 

[Nanrad]

I recall in the last thread someone said that Jane “moved on” after Michael past and implied that she shouldn’t love Michael anymore. Someone correctly pointed out that just because you aren’t with someone doesn’t mean you no longer love them. Michael “died”, they didn’t grow apart or fall out of love.

although I hate the inevitable reality of Jane ending up Rafael, she was married to Michael and never stopped loving him. Rafael needs to reconcile the fact that Jane chose Michael over him, but that they need to make the most of what they have now. It’s quite frankly childish of the writer’s to bring Michael back to have Jane choose Rafael over him. It still doesn’t erase that she chose Michael first and that the only reason they aren’t together is due to Rose.

and since the show is about Jane and Jane ending up with Rafael, they’ll never truly address the trauma Michael went through and how his life was ripped away from him.

if he happy if the “choice” ended on an ambiguous note. Lol. Maybe Jane goes poly and dates both???

[SnarkEnthusiast]

I echo the apparent consensus that Petra's reunion with JR was the only uplifting part of the episode. Looks like I'll get my Jane/Petra endgame after all. 😉

To my own surprise, I was underwhelmed by Michael's reintegration into the plot, which felt somewhat bumpy and forced. I found it downright offputting that he immediately launched into wanting Jane back and pressuring her via text message. Reading her book specifically as a pretext to emotionally manipulate her into choosing him felt very self-serving. There was a bunch of reminders of pushy S1 Michael in this episode that I did not like at all. Also, it's not like he forgot all his Jason memories when he remembered Michael – did he never date anyone as Jason? He had four years to fuck around and settle down too. It's a little weird, even when it's your true love, to say "I know we've had four years of building totally separate lives but now that I remember you, please upend your entire life and get back together with me immediately."

The whole Rafael thing is just painful because Justin cannot act his way out of a paper bag when it comes to the big emotional beats. He can cry on cue, but that's about it. I also profoundly disliked that they gave Rafael a similar montage with Jane in service of the dumbass love triangle. "I got my memories back too Jane!!!!" Fuck you, no you didn't! I get that the writers were trying to say that the Michael situation has triggered his inferiority complex from the love triangle days with respect to being Jane's second choice, but the cringe worthy attempt to draw a parallel between that and actual amnesia with a repeat cutaway montage was beyond painful and totally cheapens the emotional impact of Michael's revelation last episode. Rafael kicking Jane out was overdramatic as hell, but it did kind of make me laugh that she's finally having some consequences for being stupid enough to constantly give both of her love interests the play-by-play of where her feelings are that day and how she can't guarantee that she won't leave them for the other one. Jane and Raf are also allowing their juvenile bullshit to negatively impact Matteo – when he woke up and overheard them they should have reassured him and de-escalated the situation, not continue to weep as Mommy walks into the cold dark night with no explanation. Talk about childhood trauma fuel. Just idiotic.

tl;dr I'm really not looking forward to this season devolving into a pissing contest between Michael and Rafael because it's embarrassing and a major character regression for everyone involved, including Jane. I agree with @Nanrad - polyamory or bust! If they can't both have her, neither one should!

I'm really, desperately hoping that tonight's health scare wasn't the foreshadowing nail in the coffin for Xo, because killing her off just for the sake of book ending the series with an impactful death or whatever would be incredibly cheap, especially in a series that revolves around maternal love and bonds between women. I can't even think about it.

And the Alba plot...meh? I'm glad that she's getting her own time to shine and that the writers clearly aren't afraid to showcase older women having feelings and romantic plots, but every episode feels like a reiteration of the same thing. How long has she been pining over Jorje? At this point, he is either oblivious or a douche. Or both!

Edited April 19, 2019 by SnarkEnthusiast

[nilyank]

Once again, I am reminded about why I dislike Rafael when he is involved with Jane. He fears that she might not choose him, so he preemptively dumps her, but in the process, kicks her out of their home and tells her for all intents and purposes that Mateo is stay with him.

And no Narrator, Jane having to leave her home because Rafael kicked her out and kept their son is not Jane's worse nightmare. Especially as Rafael is not dead and Jane could talk to him to change his mind. I have three off the top of my head:

I think Mateo being kidnapped is worse.

Xo's cancer and maybe dying.

Michael being shot on their honeymoon, and then "dying" months later as a result of that shooting.

[khyber]

On 4/18/2019 at 5:13 AM, BonnieD said:

I'm feeling very sure Xo is not making it to the end of this series and this little health scare is to prepare the viewers for her ending. I don't think they can end this soap opera without a character dying (really dying with no silly games about amnesia). I do love the way the writers are able to easily switch back and forth between camp and true drama.

I

I have no problem if they have Xo die. Too many shows have people always "triumphing" over cancer. Sometimes it just goes downhill.

[Jessa]

I was surprised by Raf’s reaction to his memories. I thought that he would have seen how Michael was patient while Raf was pressuring her to make a decision and she ended up choosing Michael. I thought he was going to take the route where he would give Jane some space and be a little more patient. Boy was I wrong.

[natyxg]

I continue to be so underwhelmed by this season and the whole Michael thing. I'm still frustrated and angry because they decided to do this, but beyond that it just feels so... meh. And I think I figured out why.

It was completely unnecessary. Story is change. Story is movement. Maybe in theory, when this is all over, Jane would have chosen Rafael over Michael and that's what's different this time. I've always assumed that was the reason for this twist. However... too little, too late. Michael had been gone for a long time. We saw Jane get over him and fall for Rafael. There was nothing in the storyline, in my opinion, that made us feel like she was still holding on to Michael and wasn't giving her all to Rafael. There was nothing that made us feel like there were Michael loose ends that needed to be dealt with. Nothing.

So his return and everything that comes with it is underwhelming because the story wasn't asking for it, and it feels forced and tacked on the surface. And it ruins things retroactively, too. I don't ever intend to rewatch this show, but, if I ever did, having Jane's horrible reactions to Michael's return in my head would just... kind of ruin all the nice moments that they had together and her very realistic grief over his death.

Besides that, I'm very frustrated by the reactions that they're giving the characters. I think that "realistic" this time wasn't the way to go because it makes them seem like assholes. I actually would've appreciated more idealized romance here, so they can win me over and sell me on the ending that's coming. Seeing Jane and Rafael giving no fucks about Michael's tragedy and mostly just wanting him to gtfo so they can go back to their lives is not really going to make me root for them. Having Rafael throwing a tantrum and kicking Jane out instead of being the gentle, patient man who has grown up so much that all he wants is for her to be happy, even if it isn't with him, isn't making him root for him or Him/Jane either.

So, it all feels meh, cheap and unemotional. Like they sold out for the sake of a ratings stunt and it just isn't working for me. I liked Michael and Jane, but I never actively rooted AGAINST Rafael and Jane because they always seemed so inevitable..... but if they keep this up I might actually end up feeling frustrated and disappointed when they end up together in the end (which I assume will happen). I imagine that's the opposite of what the show wants, but that's what they're accomplishing with me.

[BAH]

@natyxg double like to your post. You seemed to say everything I was thinking/feeling but hadn’t yet managed to articulate 

[natyxg]

On 4/20/2019 at 8:49 PM, BAH said:

@natyxg double like to your post. You seemed to say everything I was thinking/feeling but hadn’t yet managed to articulate 

Thanks.

Let's hope that they manage to fix this mess and we walk away from the show happier than I fear we will. *fingers crossed*

[willgracefan]

While I LOVED the Jane gets drunk with Petra scene.... the fact they they drank five straight vodka drinks then sobered up in time to woo RJ and got to Grandparents Day. So not buying that! I’d be passed out in the closest empty Marbella room

[jaigurudeva]

On 4/18/2019 at 1:42 PM, Simba122504 said:

Rafael removed himself from the situation and self-love is key

On 4/18/2019 at 6:56 PM, Backwards999 said:

He removed himself from a toxic situation...Go Rafael!

Except he didn't remove himself, he removed Jane from their jointly-owned condo, in the middle of the night, after she'd just had a major health scare with her mother, and in front of their young son. If you're having a disagreement with your SO and you decide you want some time apart, then you should be the one to leave; don't force the other person out of the house you two share (and certainly don't put your kid in the middle of it if you can help it). Either find a hotel or crash pad for yourself if you can't stand to be under the same roof with the other person, or sleep on the couch if you just don't want to sleep in the same bed. Maybe Rafael could've made it into a "sleep-over" in Mateo's room, since the kid noticed his parents fighting and seemed distraught. But to have Rafael kick Jane out?

Emotions aren't a binary, on-off switch, and he expected Jane to try to bundle up their entire history of conflicting feelings, choosing and marrying Michael, his sudden (fake) death, mourning him, healing, learning to fall in love again, and getting an amnesiac Michael back all into a simple yes/no answer on the spot. It really seemed more like he had some deep-seated resentment against her for choosing Michael the first time that just came to the surface. And pulling out that engagement ring was emotionally manipulative. I get that it's realistic for Rafael to assert his own feelings, and to have those feelings be more conflicted and complicated than undying devotion and support for Jane no matter what she says or does, but it was just too messed up for him to quasi-propose and then pull a 180 and kick her out when she didn't give him the answer he wanted.

I was honestly team-Rafael in this whole amnesiac kerfuffle up until this episode, but now I'm not sure where I stand or where the show is even going with this. If he doesn't profusely apologize, I hope she doesn't go back to him.

Forgot to mention: I loved Jane and Petra's drama-hashing day-drinking, and I'm glad Petra and JR came clean, made up, and started fresh again. I hope they at least get their happily-ever-after. I also really hope an anvil drops on top of Madga somehow. Maybe a blacksmith visiting the hotel tries to use it to prop open a window.

Edited April 23, 2019 by jaigurudeva

[CerealKiller813]

On 4/17/2019 at 11:56 PM, ScrapNini said:

Gah!   I have said it before, but I will say it again.... I hate that they brought Michael back.  Both Jane and RAF have grown so much as people in the last four years.  Michael was a childhood play thing (yes, I realize they were adults, but they were young...) people grow and they don’t necessarily grow together.  Jane is not the same girl she used to be.  She is stronger, and more confident.

 Michael doesn’t want the person Jane is now... he wants the Jane she was at 23.  Her family is with Raf, her best self is on display around him, she is never afraid to tell him what she wants or needs.  

In writing her and Michael’s “love story” she created a fantasy out of her relationship with Michael.  It will never have the happy ending she wrote.

This is so infuriating.  I would so much rather see other loose ends get tied up than watch the simpering Michael continue to emotionally manipulate Jane.

((I know, it is pretty lonely in the I Hate Michael Club; but if you want  to join, membership is free and we have a secret handshake.)) 😊

Can I nominate myself as co-President of the I Hate Michael Club? Everyone gives him the benefit of the doubt and RAF gets none! I hate how Jane and her family treated him and sometimes still treats him at times. I’ve become accustomed to Judge Jane but OMG it is infuriating at times. 

[CerealKiller813]

On 4/18/2019 at 7:12 AM, cardigirl said:

I have always loved Michael, and Jane and Michael's relationship, but I am trying to be open-minded and see the appeal of Rafael and this episode did nothing to enlighten me as to why I should be rooting for him.  Goodness, all he does is throw around ultimatums to Jane and when she doesn't answer him fast enough, he takes their son, and kicks her out!  

He's so good with Xo and with Alba.  But with Jane, he only seems to be happy with her if things are going his way.  And he has always been this way with her. He issues commands all the time. I've been re-watching the past seasons, and that seems like a lot of what their relationship is, Rafael commanding her, and Jane trying to figure out how to keep him happy.  Ugh.  

Granted, he did NOT have to go get Michael when Rose told him he was alive.  That was a true act of love, to let her know Michael was still here, but I think he was hoping the amnesia would protect him a bit.

I understand that he is scared of losing her, but tightening his grip by issuing demands is a sure way to lose that battle, in my opinion. Jane isn't wishy washy because she's surfacey, she's trying to figure things out, and Michael told her he still loves her and wants to be with her, but he also wants her to be happy. I don't think Rafael has said that to her yet this season.

Exactly what else could Raf do? He is working from past experiences as well. He sees how Jane picks Michael over and over again. Remember when Michael had a small part in Mateo’s kidnapping and Jane was completely confused how Raf could have any ill feelings toward Michael? Even after Raf explained his side, he was seen as irrational. I honestly don’t believe Raf will ever have a chance when Michael is seen as this 10/10 perfect man. 

Raf has made strides to be where he is now. I am not blind to his faults (many) but the portrayal of Michael as a saint is complete nonsense to me.

[cardigirl]

3 hours ago, CerealKiller813 said:

Exactly what else could Raf do? He is working from past experiences as well. He sees how Jane picks Michael over and over again. Remember when Michael had a small part in Mateo’s kidnapping and Jane was completely confused how Raf could have any ill feelings toward Michael? Even after Raf explained his side, he was seen as irrational. I honestly don’t believe Raf will ever have a chance when Michael is seen as this 10/10 perfect man. 

Raf has made strides to be where he is now. I am not blind to his faults (many) but the portrayal of Michael as a saint is complete nonsense to me.

Michael's part in Mateo's kidnapping was rather small compared to Rafael being the brother of Rose's (Sin Rostro's) love interest. Michael sacrificed his career (at the time) to get Mateo back for Jane.  I don't see where Michael is at fault. But your mileage varies. 

[CerealKiller813]

11 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Michael's part in Mateo's kidnapping was rather small compared to Rafael being the brother of Rose's (Sin Rostro's) love interest. Michael sacrificed his career (at the time) to get Mateo back for Jane.  I don't see where Michael is at fault. But your mileage varies. 

I sure applaud the fact that Michael helped get Mateo back. My issue is the discrepancies with how Rafael’s faults are portrayed or dealt with on the show vs. Michael’s. Plus, Raf can’t actually be blamed for being Luisa’s brother. 

Love triangles suck all around. It sucked on 90210 (RIP DYLAN!), it sucked on One Tree Hill (Clothes over Bros) and it still sucks on JTV lol. 

Btw, yes I watch wayyyy too much tv lol 

Edited April 24, 2019 by CerealKiller813
Spelling edit

[cardigirl]

 

 

1

13 hours ago, CerealKiller813 said:

Btw, yes I watch wayyyy too much tv lol 

You are not alone.  😉

[Anela]

I've been watching this show for less than a year, and I'm already too attached to most of the characters. I knew that her mother would end up in the hospital, as soon as she walked out with Mateo, and danced. I watched this episode tonight, because the show made me laugh, I love it, and I had the warm fuzzies. I was also told today, that one aunt who was dealing with cancer, and stopped treatment, is getting worse now, so I just wanted a hot shower, and to cuddle up with another episode, before I fell asleep. I ended up sobbing, and I accidentally sat on my poor cat, when I sat here to look up the forum, because I had to visit the forum, and look up the last few episode threads, to stop crying so much. I miss my mum, too, and my family - this show reminds me of how close we used to be.

Anyway, I don't blame Raf for not wanting to go through that again, BUT Jane had a hell of a day. I don't like love triangles, never have, and I knew that Michael would get his memory back with something like the snow, or Mateo. 

I forgot to add that Jane and Petra's relationship is my favourite on the show, or in a tie with her relationship with her mum and Alba, and Xo and Rogelio (I love them together now - the way he scooped up Mateo, and has just been a good husband). And my cat has forgiven me for almost squashing him, he's snuggled up to me now.