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thewhiteowl

S16. E20. Hail & Farewell

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NCIS investigates the death of a Marine Major believed to have been killed in the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon when remains are found at a construction site.

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I can't help but think that DiNozzo would have been better in this episode than McGee.  

And Torres, you suck.  Those were not your tickets to give away.  And if that tech was that good at what she does, she would have had her own tickets.  She scammed him good.  Ellie, McGee and Delilah should have handed him his head.

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This whole season has been about letting cases become personal (Rule 10). Between Ziva still being alive and now Gibbs' ex not dying in the Pentagon as was reported, it's been a whirlwind for him and he is not taking it well.

2 hours ago, Linderhill said:

 And Torres, you suck.  Those were not your tickets to give away.  And if that tech was that good at what she does, she would have had her own tickets.  She scammed him good.  Ellie, McGee and Delilah should have handed him his head.

I wanted to smack him for doing that. That is completely unacceptable. He's very lucky that Dr. Palmer managed to secure some tickets through his connections. 

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Torres usually annoys me but I went into full on rage tonight, those were not his tickets to give away, he disrespected the he'll out of the people he works with who really wanted them, plus comparing himself to a work of art? 

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11 hours ago, Linderhill said:

I can't help but think that DiNozzo would have been better in this episode than McGee.  

Oh I was thinking throughout the episode that Tony would have had a field day with a new fiancé. Not with her death, of course.

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I like how the episode showed Tim being more "grown up/mature" as an agent, in how he dealt with Gibbs, yet keeping him true to his high tech/nerdy roots.

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ANOTHER dead love for Gibbs?

This is practically becoming a Running Gag.

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Gibbs reason for breaking off the engagement was that he was afraid her association with him would get her killed - right?  He said at the end that she ended up in the cemetary after all.  When was he married to Diane?  Before 9/11?  She didn't die until a couple of years ago.  He must not have thought of that when he married Diane, or the others?  This one wasn't a red head was she?  So many questions.

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2 hours ago, laredhead said:

Gibbs reason for breaking off the engagement was that he was afraid her association with him would get her killed - right?  He said at the end that she ended up in the cemetary after all.  When was he married to Diane?  Before 9/11?  She didn't die until a couple of years ago.  He must not have thought of that when he married Diane, or the others?  This one wasn't a red head was she?  So many questions.

I spent the whole episode trying to figure out how this fit into the timeline. When Gibbs hired DiNozzo in 2001 he was in the process of divorcing his third wife. Even if that happened in January, how would he have been involved with another woman long enough to be engaged to her by July of 2001? I also thought it was inconsistent that she didn't have red hair. 

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I'm going to have to rewatch this one.  I was terribly confused last night, and I attributed that to the two large glasses of wine I'd had with dinner.  So I came here, hoping all y'all could untangle the episode for me, but I can see that same confusion here.  Unless we were all drinking last night?

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The timing doesn’t work, but I think with a show that’s been on this long, and has an even longer history, and has so many characters, you just have to go into it waving your hand and hope that the writing and acting makes up for the obvious problems.

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1 hour ago, HurricaneVal said:

I'm going to have to rewatch this one.  I was terribly confused last night, and I attributed that to the two large glasses of wine I'd had with dinner.  So I came here, hoping all y'all could untangle the episode for me, but I can see that same confusion here.  Unless we were all drinking last night?

Don't blame the wine; I'm just as confused and I had no wine.

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5 hours ago, eel21788 said:

spent the whole episode trying to figure out how this fit into the timeline. When Gibbs hired DiNozzo in 2001 he was in the process of divorcing his third wife. Even if that happened in January, how would he have been involved with another woman long enough to be engaged to her by July of 2001? I

I'm trying to figure it out myself. 

It's a shame, because this show is usually excellent with its continuity, but they've botched this one.

How the hell does ANY of this work?

His wife and daughter were killed in 1991 and the show premiered in 2003.  In twelve years, he was able to squeeze in three failed marriages plus two more failed relationships with Jenny and now this woman?

On a soap opera, this would be perfectly normal, but it's not clicking here.

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I can handwave the timeline stuff. Gibbs was and is a handsome man with major issues. Like catnip for a certain kind of woman. IDK how long his marriages lasted or if he was separated when the new relationship started or what. Don't care, either. What I couldn't buy was that he loved someone who was lost on 9/11 and never ever said a word. I know he isn't chatty but damn. Lost me there.

Also losing me? Torres. Either make him a little likeable or kill him off. 

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47 minutes ago, thewhiteowl said:

Also losing me? Torres. Either make him a little likeable or kill him off. 

How about Torres dies in a tragic gymnasium accident.  And an episode is devoted to trying to figure out if it was a hit or just an accident that really was an accident.  (Bring Sam in from LA 'cause Sam knows how to make a gym his own as well as how to make a buff body believable.)

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I cannot stand when Gibbs acts like he is above it all, above the process. You don't take that behavior from others, why would you dish it out? I agree with McGee, its disrespectful. And there's no need for him to bark at them like that when the investigation has just started. Really couldn't take Gibbs this episode. 

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4 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I cannot stand when Gibbs acts like he is above it all, above the process. You don't take that behavior from others, why would you dish it out? I agree with McGee, its disrespectful. And there's no need for him to bark at them like that when the investigation has just started. Really couldn't take Gibbs this episode. 

I could never work for a guy like Gibbs, and if I did for whatever reason, hand me the transfer papers.

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I didn't get the logic of Gibbs' "I walked away but we still ended up here (the cemetery)".  She was going to be at "cemetery" no matter what.  If she hadn't been murdered on September 10, she would have died on September 11 with the rest of her department.  It was terrible that she was murdered but she still wasn't going to have a long happy life.

And, if you think about it, the fact that Gibbs walked away from someone to keep them safe and she died anyway (at the time he thought it was because of 9/11), that should have given him some perspective that life is going to happen and all he did by walking away was to spend less time with someone he loved.  You would think that might have changed the way his post-her relationships were.

Also, what was with the weird turning the chair upside down and cutting off the feet?  I get that he did it when he was alone in the interrogation room because the chair was wobbly but he appeared to do it the second time as an intimidation tactic.  Really?  Some high ranking officer who has been in combat is going to be intimidated into confessing to murder because Gibbs pulled out a knife and cut the plastic thingies off the bottom of a chair?  It's not like Gibbs could stab him in the interrogation room.  I thought it was stupid.

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10 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

 What I couldn't buy was that he loved someone who was lost on 9/11 and never ever said a word.

I can buy it because I can see myself acting the same way.

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Is it just me or is anyone else sick and tired of "Tragic Gibbs?" Christ! They may as well dress him in black hooded robes, carrying a sickle! It's like the man is a walking, barely-talking, fatal STD. 

That's it! Make him sleep with Torres! That would solve that problem, anyway. Sometimes I'm such a genius it's frightening.  ☺️

Cheers!

Edited by Ebau
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24 minutes ago, Ebau said:

That's it! Make him sleep with Torres! That would solve that problem, anyway. Sometimes I'm such a genius it's frightening.

Fanfic authors?  Here's your dark plot bunny....

Edited by HurricaneVal
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15 hours ago, enoughcats said:

How about Torres dies in a tragic gymnasium accident.  And an episode is devoted to trying to figure out if it was a hit or just an accident that really was an accident.  (Bring Sam in from LA 'cause Sam knows how to make a gym his own as well as how to make a buff body believable.)

Maybe one of his tight t-shirts will suffocate him.

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23 hours ago, Camille said:

His wife and daughter were killed in 1991 and the show premiered in 2003.  In twelve years, he was able to squeeze in three failed marriages plus two more failed relationships with Jenny and now this woman?

Don't forget the red-head in the corvette.

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23 hours ago, Camille said:

I'm trying to figure it out myself. 

It's a shame, because this show is usually excellent with its continuity, but they've botched this one.

Well, it wasn't that long ago that Jimmy's dad went from being a respected ophthalmologist to a deadbeat dad.  And Ziva is alive even though they found her remains.  

BTW, where's Fornell?  

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7 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

BTW, where's Fornell?  

He's getting a sex change and a red hair transplant, and we'll see him in the finale.  I'd prefer Allison Janney though.

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21 minutes ago, Driad said:

He's getting a sex change and a red hair transplant, and we'll see him in the finale.  I'd prefer Allison Janney though.

As long as it's not Jamie Lee Curtis:)

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I didn't get it -- he broke up with her because he thought she would come to physical harm, or because he thought he would break her heart because he was clearly so bad at long-term relationships? If it was the former, what indication was there of that? I must have missed it.

I didn't like how the agents all stood behind the glass trying to get the others to go in and interrogate Gibbs, but at least McGee manned up when he took Gibbs off the case. Gibbs was guilty of the same crap Torres so recently was -- how dare you suspect me? Well, when they find evidence linking you to a crime, you have to speak up; no one is just going to hand wave it away because you are you.

I admit I liked this episode better than the past several, but there were still a lot of holes.

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1 hour ago, scorpio1031 said:

And Ziva is alive even though they found her remains.  

I'm going to cut them some slack on that one--(1) The body was probably so mangled that it was misidentified, and (b) Ziva strikes me as someone who would have been so Crazy Prepared that she would have had a dead body stashed in the freezer in case she needed to fake her death and escape.

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I think this is one of those episodes that clearly shows that different writers, write each episode and don't consult each other on what the others have written. We went from Gibbs/McGee heart-to-heart in the basement, to McGee throwing Gibbs off a case and going on about how Gibbs doesn't trust him after 16 (and a half!) years.

Retcons look good on nobody but I'm mostly just glad it wasn't the girl's dad who offed her because that's where I thought it was going in the middle.

Torres, you are a jerk and can show yourself out, please.

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Yeah, I didn't want to see the dad behind it. It seemed to lean that way when he appeared to be coaching the students to strike first, ask questions later, until Gibbs spoke up, although he ultimately agreed with Gibbs. It would have been interesting to see how that lesson would have gone if Gibbs hadn't been there.

In thinking about it later, I think it was kind of dumb that she used the sleeve of her uniform to soak up blood on his hand, especially since she then wrapped a white cloth bandage around it. I guess it was necessary to have his blood discovered on the body.

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1 hour ago, ForReal said:

I think it was kind of dumb that she used the sleeve of her uniform to soak up blood on his hand, especially since she then wrapped a white cloth bandage around it. I guess it was necessary to have his blood discovered on the body.

I absolutely could not make any sense of that at all, whatsoever, in any way.   And GIbbs said that was two months before she died, so she kept a blood stain on her dress uniform without cleaning it?

On 4/17/2019 at 10:11 PM, thewhiteowl said:

Torres. Either make him a little likeable or kill him off. 

Seems like the writers are confused as well.  Several eps ago they were shipping "Tellie" pretty hard, but now they've got to know that there was nothing remotely cute/endearing about what he did with the tickets, and we wouldn't wish Torres on Ellie in a million years.

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  CAMILLE SAID:

His wife and daughter were killed in 1991 and the show premiered in 2003.  In twelve years, he was able to squeeze in three failed marriages plus two more failed relationships with Jenny and now this woman?

And don't forget Col. Hollis Mann.  She wanted commitment from Gibbs, but he wasn't capable of doing that, so she retired and moved to Hawaii.

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14 hours ago, buckboard said:

  CAMILLE SAID:

His wife and daughter were killed in 1991 and the show premiered in 2003.  In twelve years, he was able to squeeze in three failed marriages plus two more failed relationships with Jenny and now this woman?

And don't forget Col. Hollis Mann.  She wanted commitment from Gibbs, but he wasn't capable of doing that, so she retired and moved to Hawaii.

But Col. Mann wasn't in the picture between 1991 and 2003 was she? I thought they just met for the first time in whatever her first episode was.

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Is anyone else distracted by Bishops hair? Earlier in the season she cut it shorter, dyed it darker and had bangs. I thought it was a good look on her especially since her hair was looking pretty stringy. 

That new look lasted about two episodes and now we’re back to long, blonde, no bangs and stringy. I guess they tape out of order but it’s just one of those things that I find unnerving.

of course I find Torres unnerving every minute of every episode but that’s a whole other subject.

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On 4/19/2019 at 5:50 AM, JessDVD said:

Torres, you are a jerk and can show yourself out, please.

Well, if they can bring Ziva back from the dead, can they please, please, please, PLEASE bring back Reeves?  

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9 hours ago, secnarf said:

But Col. Mann wasn't in the picture between 1991 and 2003 was she?

No, she wasn't.

There's also Lara Macy (their interactions in the back-door pilot for NCIS:LA heavily imply a prior relationship or strong feelings at least)

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On 4/18/2019 at 5:16 PM, eel21788 said:
On 4/17/2019 at 5:45 PM, Camille said:

His wife and daughter were killed in 1991 and the show premiered in 2003.  In twelve years, he was able to squeeze in three failed marriages plus two more failed relationships with Jenny and now this woman?

Don't forget the red-head in the corvette. 

Let's just say a young relative of mine had 6 stepmothers (and at least two "aunties" that I know of) before she turned 12 (and her parents weren't divorced until she was one), so it's definitely doable. It doesn't take long to rack up the marriages and divorces if they fail quickly.

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I don't think Cote de  Pablo is even acting any longer so I doubt they will bring Ziva back. Stranger things have happened. I think it would be very cool but definitely strange. 

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13 hours ago, Camille said:

No, she wasn't.

There's also Lara Macy (their interactions in the back-door pilot for NCIS:LA heavily imply a prior relationship or strong feelings at least)

She had to investigate him after the death of Pablo Hernandez.  She found evidence that proved Gibbs did it, but she hid it away cause she understood why he did it.  Gibbs was mad at her for the investigation, but didn't find out until NCIS:LA that she had hid away the evidence.  

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Watching the ep where SecNav’s daughter was kidnapped.  I always expected to find out Gibbs and SecNav had something going on.

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The entire storyline of Gibbs multiple marriages and relationships is totally out of character for Gibbs.  He has hidden in his basement ever since the show began.   The one relationship with the Army female actually shown on TV was awkward and had no chemistry-and seemed exactly in character for Gibbs.  The relationship with Jamie Lee Curtis’s character was also awkward, but off for Gibbs character. He has very few friends.  He’s not a serial ladies man. 

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14 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

The entire storyline of Gibbs multiple marriages and relationships is totally out of character for Gibbs.  He has hidden in his basement ever since the show began.   The one relationship with the Army female actually shown on TV was awkward and had no chemistry-and seemed exactly in character for Gibbs.  The relationship with Jamie Lee Curtis’s character was also awkward, but off for Gibbs character. He has very few friends.  He’s not a serial ladies man. 

You're right. It doesn't jibe with the reclusive personality we've seen.

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9 hours ago, Camille said:

You're right. It doesn't jibe with the reclusive personality we've seen.

That's true enough, but he's always perked up when women who interested him were around. And plenty of women like the strong silent type.

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15 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

And plenty of women like the strong silent type.

There's "strong and silent" and then there's "I've built a fucking concrete wall around myself".

Or boat, rather.

Have you seen the previews for next week's episode?

It's time for a new spin-off.

NCIS: Retirement Home

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8 hours ago, Camille said:
On 4/23/2019 at 6:07 AM, Clanstarling said:

And plenty of women like the strong silent type.

There's "strong and silent" and then there's "I've built a fucking concrete wall around myself".

Or boat, rather.

It takes a while to distinguish the difference. His multiple marriages/affairs indicate that when they find that out and accept they won't change him  - they divorce or break up with him. 🙂

Edited by Clanstarling
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