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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)

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Rey and Ben embody the two side of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, and thematically TFA (and the NT) is the battle between the two sides of his legacy.

I don't think that's where the story will go, but I would love it if they do (and are able to make it non-cheesy). 

She's not. In the TFA fight Kylo just took a blast bolt in the stomach.

This is a response to a discussion literally no one was having. Rey uses the Force intentionally multiple times prior to the Rey/Kylo fight. There's a lot to talk about how TFA and TLJ portrayed Rey's Force abilities that aren't about that single fight.

Because where's the logic of revealing what happened with Luke and Kylo at the Jedi Temple to one who was actually there when it happened? ... Jakku would be convoluted and make it ridicutlously coincidental even for a Star Wars movie.

The child trainees were not in the tent with Kylo and Luke. Mind wipes and brainwashing are part of canon, so it wouldn't be particularly hard to explain why Rey didn't remember Kylo. Jakku would be no more or less of a coincidence than it already is. There also was a hint that Kylo knew a Force-sensitive girl was out in the world in TFA in his reaction to hearing about a girl on Jakku. (I also disagree that Abrams laid out a mystery between Luke/Kylo's interactions specifically--to me the mystery was how Snoke got his hooks into Kylo and what exactly the Knights of Ren are. Neither of which Johnson addressed.)

She's not overpowered but, her powers were over developed for someone with no training and no previous use. She pretty much went from what's this force thing you speak of to Jedi Knight in 2 seconds.

Yes, this exactly. I like your substitution of "over developed" and will use that from now on for clarity's sake. Untrained Force-sensitive children using the Force intuitively in certain situations is canon. Untrained Force-sensitive children intentionally using the Force with the control and power that Rey showed is not.

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13 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

I've said it before in some of the other Star Wars threads, but I'll say it here too since Rey's seemingly advanced abilities have come up: my theory after watching TFA a half dozen times is that Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin Skywalker.

When we meet Maz in TFA she goes off on this speech about having been alive long enough to see the same eyes in different people. Anakin's Lightsaber (which Maz sas for some reason) and Obi-Wan's voice calls out to Rey. I don't even feel like the connection is particularly subtle. This is why Rey seems so skilled compared to her level of training, she's drawing on her past life as Anakin.

Further I'd speculate that Rey doesn't have an actual biological father, and was born 'of the force' in the same way that Anakin was. Making Anakin her father in a sort of metaphysical sense.

Rey and Ben embody the two side of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, and thematically TFA (and the NT) is the battle between the two sides of his legacy.

Speculating on the Teaser, I'm thinking that Rey starts having some sort of flashbacks/visions of her life as Anakin/Vader, and that's where the Palpatine laugh comes from.

This is brilliant! Does this make Rey/Anakin the promised one that would bring balance to the force? I know some say it was Luke (even Rebels) but, I always thought Anakin, since he killed off all the Jedi (except Obi-Wan and Yoda), leaving 2 Jedi and 2 Sith.

Edited by Morrigan2575

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4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

since he killed off all the Jedi (except Obi-Wan and Yoda), leaving 2 Jedi and 2 Sith.

(except also Kanan, and later Ezra from Star Wars Rebels... so 3 1/2 to 2?)

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10 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

(except also Kanan, and later Ezra from Star Wars Rebels... so 3 1/2 to 2?)

Yeah but, that's so after the fact. Rebels wasn't planned when prequels and original trilogy came out. Factor in sequels and Luke doesn't bring balance to the force either.

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Interesting tidbit re: relationship dynamics from a comment from John Boyega (original article is in German, this is a translation. And though the article is trying to give weight to Finn's relationship with Rose, the quote doesn't actually seem to mention her character, just Han, Chewie and Poe):

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Interesting. I wonder if this means Stormpilot. That's a ship I like, mostly because of the name. 🙂

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I would adore StormPilot,!!  But I suspect it might be that any romance is going to be more subtext rather than text, and that they are really going to pound home the 'family' dynamic (which can absolutely be read as romantic, if one so chooses!).  It's been two years since Finn's crush on Rey, and Rose's impromptu kiss with Finn... any feelings from those encounters would have been long since dealt with.  They all know each other now, so romance between any of the characters would probably be established and comfortable by now, so not something we'd see grow and develop.  And if Palpatine's slinking around... they're going to be busy!

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7 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

I would adore StormPilot,!!  But I suspect it might be that any romance is going to be more subtext rather than text, and that they are really going to pound home the 'family' dynamic (which can absolutely be read as romantic, if one so chooses!).  It's been two years since Finn's crush on Rey, and Rose's impromptu kiss with Finn... any feelings from those encounters would have been long since dealt with.  They all know each other now, so romance between any of the characters would probably be established and comfortable by now, so not something we'd see grow and develop.  And if Palpatine's slinking around... they're going to be busy!

Leia and Han found time, so did Anakin and Padme. If the action slows down enough for some story, which it will, that's when any potential romance will happen.

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On Rey's abilities, I don't think an argument against her being a strong pilot can be made when you have Luke blowing up the Death Star the first time he ever flew a spacecraft of any kind.  Both had experience with lesser craft on their homeworlds and having the Force to draw on (unknowingly) certainly helps.

Edited by benteen
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4 hours ago, Anduin said:

Leia and Han found time, so did Anakin and Padme. If the action slows down enough for some story, which it will, that's when any potential romance will happen.

Definitely true, but the whole prequel series was about getting Anakin and Padme together to give us Luke and Leia, and they had already established Han and Leia as an overt couple in ESB, so in ROJ it was just building on what was already there and not much time had passed off screen between those two movies. 

Different situation here on all counts.  And unfortunately I think they would have to give real world consideration to using Rose's character in a romance that would 'come between' any of the other popular 'ships', because Kelly Marie Tran doesn't deserve any more shit from "fans".   

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On 4/20/2019 at 8:41 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

This is brilliant! Does this make Rey/Anakin the promised one that would bring balance to the force? I know some say it was Luke but, I always thought Anakin, since he killed off all the Jedi (except Obi-Wan and Yoda), leaving 2 Jedi and 2 Sith.

Thanks! I think that Rey/Anakin is indeed the Chosen One and The Force has spun The Chosen One back out into the universe to fight the rise of Snoke and Kylo Ren as the new Dark Side force users. Luke's role in the OT ended up being putting Anakin back on the right path rather than being "The Chosen One" himself.

I disagree a bit on the balance thing. I think that in the first 6 films "balance" is supposed to be removing the Sith/Palpatine, The Force/"Light Side" is a balanced, healthy system and The Dark Side is like a disease of the Force that throws the balance out of whack.

So Anakin fulfilled his destiny and brought balance when he killed Palpatine, with the end of RotJ implying that Luke and Leia would rebuild things.

The problem is that by wiping out almost all of the Jedi, and killing many of those politicians who stood up to Palpatine and the Empire Anakin ended up being the sort of 'cure' that nearly wiped out the immune system and severely weakened the body in the process. Which is what allowed Snoke and TFO to slide in.

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8 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

Definitely true, but the whole prequel series was about getting Anakin and Padme together to give us Luke and Leia, and they had already established Han and Leia as an overt couple in ESB, so in ROJ it was just building on what was already there and not much time had passed off screen between those two movies. 

Different situation here on all counts.  And unfortunately I think they would have to give real world consideration to using Rose's character in a romance that would 'come between' any of the other popular 'ships', because Kelly Marie Tran doesn't deserve any more shit from "fans".   

Damn, I forgot about Rose. Stormmaintainence just doesn't have the same snap as Stormpilot.

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13 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

I disagree a bit on the balance thing. I think that in the first 6 films "balance" is supposed to be removing the Sith/Palpatine, The Force/"Light Side" is a balanced, healthy system and The Dark Side is like a disease of the Force that throws the balance out of whack.

I'm not pro-Sith here, but IMO, the Jedi Order we met in Phantom Menace was stagnant, aloof, and didn't seem to be engaging in their stated role of being the guardians of the peace.  I thought they needed to be shaken up.  Massacred, no.

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23 hours ago, benteen said:

On Rey's abilities, I don't think an argument against her being a strong pilot can be made when you have Luke blowing up the Death Star the first time he ever flew a spacecraft of any kind.  Both had experience with lesser craft on their homeworlds and having the Force to draw on (unknowingly) certainly helps.

Rye is a bad pilot, IMO. Look at her chase on Jakku. All over the place, slamming into things. And on Ahch-To, without being chased, she's far too low and hits the water. In TLJ, Chewie told her to handle the guns. Notice in the new teaser, the Falcon has a circular dish again? I wonder if Rey knocked it off somehow. She's almost as bad as me when it comes to vehicles.

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7 hours ago, starri said:

I'm not pro-Sith here, but IMO, the Jedi Order we met in Phantom Menace was stagnant, aloof, and didn't seem to be engaging in their stated role of being the guardians of the peace.  I thought they needed to be shaken up.  Massacred, no.

Absolutely, the PT Jedi as an institution had become so fearful of the Dark Side that they stopped living as part of the galaxy and hid behind the Republic and its laws. Qui Gon is, basically, the one Jedi voice we see against what they'd become, and we're told that the refuse to let him on the Council because of it.

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10 hours ago, starri said:

I'm not pro-Sith here, but IMO, the Jedi Order we met in Phantom Menace was stagnant, aloof, and didn't seem to be engaging in their stated role of being the guardians of the peace.  I thought they needed to be shaken up.  Massacred, no.

2 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Absolutely, the PT Jedi as an institution had become so fearful of the Dark Side that they stopped living as part of the galaxy and hid behind the Republic and its laws. Qui Gon is, basically, the one Jedi voice we see against what they'd become, and we're told that the refuse to let him on the Council because of it.

Oh, definitely, I'm not pro-Sith either but the Jedi Order in PT was stagnant, compliant and refusing to change anything. They dismiss the return of the Sith as not possible because they would have "sensed it" rather then being shocked and trying to figure out what they should do and what went wrong. Who else could it possibly have been? Qui Gon was really the only one trying and no one was really listening to him. Obi Wan tells him if he stopped defying the council then he'd be on the council. Really? So if you go along with everything the council says you get to be on the council? What could possibly go wrong with that. The way they talk to Anakin when he's in the room? No, just tell him to his face that he won't be a Jedi because he's too old. Never mind that he'd been in slave his entire life and just left his mother back home still in slaved. Where was their compassion? They were so worry about following rules. That they stopped caring about anything else. Yoda's so worried about Anakin's training so you'd think he'd decide to train Anakin on his own or something. Nope, hand him over to a newly made Jedi knight who just lost his master and never spent any time on his own as Jedi. As much as I love Obi Wan he was just as much in TPM and AOTC following the rules as the Council. Although he does express concern about Anakin being a bodyguard to Padme to the council who then ignore him.  But because Obi Wan and most of the Jedi were all raised the same way that meant none of them could fully understand Anakin. He was raised in slavery, had a mom who loved him and he loved her. If they did they would have helped him. And certainly not leave her still in slaved. Obi Wan completely dismisses Anakin's dreams in ATOC which turned out to be true because he doesn't understand. He is much better in ROTS.   

They dismiss Padme's suggestion that Dooku was behind the attack because he used to be a Jedi. Except Dooku is leading the Separatists against the Republic. That's way more then just having a different opinion from the Jedi. They are so afraid of the Dark Side. They don't even realize how afraid they are of the Dark Side.

Yoda does at least in ROTS realized he failed and the book version does go in a little more to him realizing his failure. That he had been training the Jedi to prepare them to fight the previous battle against the Sith. He wasn't preparing them for anything new or present. He failed so badly. The Jedi under him and the galaxy paid dearly for it. 

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Furthermore, about Rey's ship skills. There is a Tie Fighter approaching at speed. She leaps onto it, lightsabre at the ready. If she's that desperate to leave, she should wait until it stops, then calmly enter through the hatch. Does she even know how ships are supposed to work?

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Vanity Fair article is up! A good read, but better pictures. I have thoughts, of course. Keri Russel is a helmeted bounty hunter. Bounty hunters lean towards the bad guys. Which is good, because as I already noted, the First Order are light on characters right now. They need the numbers. They have Richard E Grant too! You'd think the Doctor would be on the Resistance side. For shame.

Animal-back charge against vehicles. Okay, so the Charge at Krojanty wasn't quite that, but it still wasn't a Polish victory.

Rey, Chewie, and BB8 are on a vehicle. Looks similar to the one we saw Finn, Poe, and C3PO on in the teaser. Both of which look like they could be from Mad Max.

Luke! Oh my god, I was punched right in the emotions. Is this sensation what people call all the feels? Yes, his return has been public knowledge for some time. But I'm still choked up.

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Great pictures!

Edited by benteen
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Those Vanity Fair articles and picture are amazing and fascinating.  Visually stunning.  I am so ready to shift into Star Wars mode.  

This reality in particular, is something I hope JJ is able to incorporate effectively into his vision (from here).

Quote

When people talk about the new Star Wars movies, they tend to talk about how faithful they are to the originals. What’s harder to say is how exactly the new films are different—how movies like Skywalker keep their connection to the past while at the same time finding a way to belong to the world of 2019. Because regardless of whether or not Star Wars has changed since 1977, the world around it has, profoundly. “There’s a loss of innocence, a sense of innocence that existed in the 70s that I don’t think to any extent exists today,” Kennedy says. “I think that has to permeate the storytelling and the reaction to the stories and how they’re set up. It has to feel differently because we’re different.”

We know things, as a people and as an audience, that we didn’t know back then. For example: back then it felt sort of O.K. to like Darth Vader, because even though he was evil he was also incredibly cool, and the kind of fascism he represented felt like a bogeyman from the distant past. But now fascism is rising again, which makes the whole First Order subplot look super-prescient, but it also reminds us that fascism is not even slightly cool in real life. “Evil needs to feel and look very real,” Kennedy says, “and what that means today may not be as black-and-white as it might have been in 1977, coming off a kind of World War II sensibility.” In the Star Wars–verse, Dark and Light are supposed to balance each other, but in the real world they just mix together into a hopelessly foggy, morally ambiguous gray.

Edited by Wynterwolf

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Oh god I'm crying right now at this part:
 

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And, much to Abrams’s surprise, it was a valuable process for her daughter, Billie Lourd, who plays one of Leia’s lieutenants, and opposite her mother, in new scenes in The Rise of Skywalker. “I purposely had written her character in scenes without Carrie, because I just didn’t want it to be uncomfortable for her,” Abrams says. Instead, he recalls, Lourd told him, “I want to be in scenes with her. I want it for my children when I have kids. I want them to see.”

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One of the things I liked so much about the original movies was that they were ultimately hopeful.  I don't need the cynicism and darkness of movies and other stuff nowadays to invest these films.

It's cool seeing Keri Russell in her costume but I'm still puzzled as to why you have these amazing actresses (Keri, Gwendoline Christie and Lupita) and you decide to restrict their performances by covering up their faces.  Literally anyone could have been cast for Captain Phasma for instance.

Edited by benteen
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Interesting also that they're saying here that it's been about a year since TLJ, rather than the 2 years I had seen before.  That changes things up a bit in that the events of TLJ aren't quite as far in the past, and so could realistically inform more of what will happen here than if it had been twice that long.  

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17 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Interesting also that they're saying here that it's been about a year since TLJ, rather than the 2 years I had seen before.  That changes things up a bit in that the events of TLJ aren't quite as far in the past, and so could realistically inform more of what will happen here than if it had been twice that long.  

I've only heard them say it's been about a year since TLJ. They said that at Celebration.

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5 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I've only heard them say it's been about a year since TLJ. They said that at Celebration.

I think this might have been back from when JJ had only said 'a significant amount of time had passed'.  I don't think I would have worded a year in that way, I probably would have worded that more as 'some time has passed'.  A "significant" amount of time would be longer than a year to me, but I'm glad we have a firm time frame now.  I had missed that info when Celebration happened.  

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Anyone else get Alien/Aliens vibes from Kerri's helmet?  It really looks like a Xenomorph to me.

ETA: That's some messed up photoshop on both covers

Edited by Morrigan2575

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Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Anyone else get Alien/Aliens vibes from Kerri's helmet?  It really looks like a Xenomorph to me

Ha, yes!  I really want to see exactly what she's covering there!

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25 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Anyone else get Alien/Aliens vibes from Kerri's helmet?  It really looks like a Xenomorph to me.

ETA: That's some messed up photoshop on both covers

23 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Ha, yes!  I really want to see exactly what she's covering there!

It reminded me more of:

68638.jpg

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Okay now that they have a grownup back in their the First Order is back to being a legit threat!

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Interesting theory about what Keri Russell's character could mean for Rey.  I admit, I love the idea that Zorri Bliss could have info (that maybe she wants to sell) for Rey about her parents.  

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1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Okay now that they have a grownup back in their the First Order is back to being a legit threat!

OMG I love Richard E Grant! (eeeeeeeeeeee!!) Although I see Pryde spelled like that and I think Kitty of X-Men fame,

Still, even though he's obviously a bad guy (First Order and all) -- eeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

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7 hours ago, benteen said:

It's cool seeing Keri Russell in her costume but I'm still puzzled as to why you have these amazing actresses (Keri, Gwendoline Christie and Lupita) and you decide to restrict their performances by covering up their faces.  Literally anyone could have been cast for Captain Phasma for instance.

In the case of Keri Russell, I imagine the moment where she takes off her helmet and we see she's gorgeous is probably part of the package. For Gwendoline Christie, I think the role was originally bigger, and more satisfying even without her face being on view.

Lupita Nyong'o? I mean, ideally I'd like to see her face in every movie that gets made, but she's too busy for that.

5 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

It reminded me more of:

68638.jpg

Definitely. And that's a movie I need to watch again. Not seen it for probably fifteen years.

The bodysuit looks kind of Quarian to me, though.

5 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Okay now that they have a grownup back in their the First Order is back to being a legit threat!

"We've joined the First Order by mistake!"

Richard E. Grant as a new villain? That seems good to me. 

I really don't know how I feel about re-purposing bits of footage that Carrie shot, to include Leia in the movie. But ultimately, I think Carrie Fisher would have been fine with that, and probably would have had a perverse sense of joy in the idea of continuing to 'act' even after she was gone.

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3 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I just did a rewatch of TFA & TLJ (mainly to try and get my head around what they might try to do with Kylo/Ben), and man I'm feeling nostalgic too.  I am old enough to have seen ANH in the theater (multiple times).  It has been a special journey.  

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Fasten your tin-hat, because I've got a theory!

Reading between the lines of that Vanity Fair article, I'm going to go out on a limb and say: 

Kylo murdered Rey's parents.

First of all, JJ Abrams has already said that there's more to Rey's backstory than has been revealed. I don't think he'll retcon Johnson's decision to make her a nobody, but I do think Kylo was lying when he said they sold Rey for drinking money. It was a half-truth designed to make her join the Dark Side.

In watching TFA, it's painfully clear that JJ originally meant for Rey and Kylo to have met previously. His "what GIRL?" response to hearing that the droid had escaped with a girl, to Rey's Force abilities growing stronger in his presence all pointed to her having been in Luke's Academy as a child, only to escape the massacre and forget the trauma (explaining why her powers came back to her so strongly after they re-met). Heck, in the fim's novelization, Kylo actually says: "so it IS you," when she pulls the lightsabre out of his reach.

Of course, that theory went kaput with TLJ, BUT JJ could still work with Johnson's idea that Rey was born with preternatural Force abilities to balance out Kylo (which is a stupid idea, but we're stuck with it now). In which case, if Snoke and Kylo knew that such a person would come along, it makes sense that they would try to find her and kill her as a child.

Then there's Rey's vision, which included the Knights of Ren and Kylo seemingly killing this random guy:

00000000000000.png.1392a18e43d63843afc8eab8be7d2f58.png

What if that's Rey's father? And apparently this scene made another appearance in the footage at the latest Star Wars convention, suggesting it's important. 

If you look at the actual quotes from Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley in the article about their "maybe-bond" and that it "runs deeper than expected" (the writer tries to crouch it in romantic terms, but I still seriously doubt that Disney is going to hook up a teenage girl with the grown Space Nazi that's been terrorizing her for the past two movies) then it could be referring to this shared history in which Kylo and the KoR deliberately went out killing Jedi apprentices - including Rey's parents, who presumably managed to hide her on Jakku.

Finally, there's an emphasis on parents in both actors' quotes. I roll my eyes at the idea that we're apparently meant to feel sorry for Kylo for having the coolest people in the galaxy as his mother and father, but this is the second time Daisy has made the claim that Rey is furious at Kylo for having had a loving family and then throwing them away, which is interesting.

If the original trilogy had as its big twist the fact that the murderer of Luke's father was actually his true father, then there's a nice symmetry in Rey realizing that her great nemesis put her on the path she's on by hunting down and killing her parents. 

Also, there was a rumour a while back that

Spoiler

Rey would see a vision of her parents on a jungle planet. This was INCREDIBLY early speculation, and yet the promo pictures have revealed that a jungle environment DOES come into play at some point. It could take place at the same time Rey tearfully hugs Leia, having learnt the full truth about her parents.

It fits together, but then I've been wrong before. And "subverting audience expectations" seems to be everyone's MO these days, whether or not it actually makes sense.

Edited by Ravenya003
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This actually sounds really interesting! A new approach to the editing process (necessitated by the shorter time frame they had for filming and post production):

Quote

I had the DP right there to ask questions. If I needed a shot, or if J.J. decided we needed another shot, we would set up in a corner and get a green screen shot of something. Getting to know the cast and having them be comfortable with me, it was a really great way to understand what they were going through.

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On 5/24/2019 at 3:46 PM, Ravenya003 said:

Then there's Rey's vision, which included the Knights of Ren and Kylo seemingly killing this random guy:

00000000000000.png.1392a18e43d63843afc8eab8be7d2f58.png

What if that's Rey's father? And apparently this scene made another appearance in the footage at the latest Star Wars convention, suggesting it's important. 

Makes sense. Only thing I'll add is that it's more likely Rey's mother whom Kylo killed and her father is Luke. And it will finally explain/justify Luke's attack on a teenage boy. In ROTJ, he snapped when Vader threatened Leia. Some random vision about Kylo turning vaguely "evil" is one thing but a specific vision/prophecy of Kylo murdering his wife and child will make sense. And if Luke is convinced that Kylo succeeded, and that he (Luke) in fact catalyzed their deaths by attacking Kylo, it will go a great deal to explain his personality in TLJ.

Edited by ursula

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I think his voice over in the trailer had basically teased this already, but I still like the idea of maybe being able to explore the mechanics of how the force ghosts work and how that might relate to Palpatine too. Also seems like a good way to bring everything full circle.  

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From Vulture.com

We Asked Daisy Ridley to Describe Adam Driver’s Big-ness, and Other Questions
 

Quote

In the new Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker trailer, we see you and Carrie Fisher embracing, a tear running down your face. I know that that scene was compiled using unused footage from The Force Awakens, but do you remember the original context of that moment?
I do! It’s not a million miles away from what this scene is. It was very sad. I found it very moving to watch it, because I do remember the original. And it’s a strange thing to do, for someone that’s not around anymore to be brought back to life. It’s eerie that it resonates so much with what the story is this time. It’s pretty amazing.

Do you remember how you and Carrie discussed playing the scene?
She was actually whispering, “This is a fucking long hug.” [Laughs.] I was trying to do my acting, like, “Oh my god, Carrie!” There wasn’t any discussion about what we were gonna do.

Edited by VCRTracking
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2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That's a pretty cool poster! But I want a trailer, BTS reel. Bloody anything, please!

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41 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Monday!

(also, DAYUM this photo is ON FIRE!!)  IS IT MONDAY YET???!!?!!?!?!?

Yes! Halle-bloody-lujah! Praise Satan*! I wonder what time. I'm 12 hours ahead of New York, so will I have a late Monday night, or an early Tuesday morning?

*Or whoever.

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On 8/24/2019 at 11:38 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

I love the concept but Palpatine looks weird to me than someone on Twitter noticed:

 
Edited by VCRTracking
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