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S04.E13: The Seam

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Uhh, well, err, ummm....

That was so beautifully painful I can't even...

::Sobs::

Remembers there's a season five so has hope...

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2 minutes ago, Philbert said:

Remembers there's a season five so has hope...

Desperate, denial driven internet search says not so much. 

I hope the producers are lying but I don't think they are.  

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So you guys are saying I should get the hell out of this thread and wake up early tomorrow morning and watch this on Prime?? I was not expecting these responses.

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2 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

So you guys are saying I should get the hell out of this thread and wake up early tomorrow morning and watch this on Prime?? I was not expecting these responses.

Get the hell out of the thread.  Anyone on another coast or watching delayed should get the hell out of the thread.

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So, they got my hopes up for Q and Elliot to get together for real and be happy...and then they kill Quentin off before the two of them can even have a scene together, he gets all his last emotional moments with Alice, and he just dies, never having known that Elliot loved him and wanted to be with him. And according to the producers, this is it for him. What was even the POINT of that whole episode going into Elliot's memory if this was what was going to happen?  

I am literally crying so hard, I just cant. This has been one of my favorite shows, but now...I just dont know. My whole heart hurts.

Edited by tennisgurl
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1 minute ago, ParadoxLost said:

Get the hell out of the thread.  Anyone on another coast or watching delayed should get the hell out of the thread.

Thanks for the warning-guess I’m setting my alarm early. Kills me that Prime doesnt drop the episode until 2am my time. Hugs to all of you!

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1 minute ago, Yokosmom said:

Seems more like series finales than season finale. How are they going to do a fifth season after that?

I know, right? It feels like one of those finales where the producers didn't know if they would get another season, so they wrapped it up to be satisfying if it did turn out to be the last. Not that I would call leaving fans sobbing and shouting "nooooo" at the television a satisfying ending, but it did feel like a farewell. Magic is back, Alice will run the library, Julia got magic again and is with Penny, and Eliot and Margo are back to save Filory again. Unlike last season, which clearly ended with a set-up for this one, this episode felt very much like a conclusion.

I love this show. Sniff.

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I have a headache from crying and I won't know what else to say. I kinda wish I hadn't read the speculation this Would happen as it might have shocked me more..but it still had me sobbing. At first I thought...well Penny died and he's still around but it all seemed so final and if they bring another Q it won't be OUR Q who experienced all the things and made sure everyone knew the words to under pressure and made a sorta joke about an exploding cat...and now I'm crying again.  

Im not handling this well.

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I am TOO PREGNANT for that funeral scene. A lot of tears were shed. So many tears. 

Look, death isn't particularly permanent in this show, regardless of what the internet may be saying, so we will just have to see. Quentin is such a great character and I am gonna be really pissed if that is it. 

I maintain we could have cut the romance between Alice and Quentin. A renewed friendship would have made that final reaction from her just as valid. It was shoehorned in. Meanwhile that look he gave Eliot when he saw he survived. Excuse me, I have to go cry forever. 

Onto other not gutwrenching observations. I am glad the monster/gods plot is done and we won't have it carry over. I am also happy to see the Library getting overhauled.

Julia being turned human was more of the same. She never gets any choice, does she? At least we don't have to watch her struggle to be normal next season. 

Josh (the fresh prince) and Quentin eating cake and dealing with the Executive underling was hilarious. Another highlight was the sweet moment for Margo and Josh. She got to be a badass and sweet, which I appreciated. I also loved her recognition that she was being callous.

I am glad we have badass Kady back, and I loved the use of the hedges. It was really cool that they managed to work them in. 

Ugh, I am still gutted by that ending, y'all. 

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18 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So, they got my hopes up for Q and Elliot to get together for real and be happy...and then they kill Quentin off before the two of them can even have a scene together, he gets all his last emotional moments with Alice, and he just dies, never having known that Elliot loved him and wanted to be with him. And according to the producers, this is it for him. What was even the POINT of that whole episode going into Elliot's memory if this was what was going to happen?  

I am literally crying so hard, I just cant. This has been one of my favorite shows, but now...I just dont know. My whole heart hurts.

The last twenty minutes was beautifully done.  But my overall feeling about the season was that it was lacking.  The Monster thing just didn't work out as well as the set up seemed to promise.  And it was a huge mistake to have Elliot "gone" all season. 

I had hopes that next season would be better.  But I just don't know at this point.  I feel like I should want to laud the show for being brave and taking risks because its worked out before, but I'm not all that confident this is going to work. 

Maybe we start a petition for Quentin Coldwater's metrocard to dump him in The Good Place.

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48 minutes ago, festivus said:

Holy shit I was actually right with my spec for once. Even so, I'm still in shock right now.

Even while they were doing it I thought there would be an out.  Everyone reunites in the Underworld.  Penny and Quentin have buddy action movie type adventures through the Underworld.  Quentin's descendant (who looks just like him) is the Dark overlord whoever that took over Fillory 300 years in the future in a dual role.

I'm in the stages of grief.  I was only momentarily startled out of it when Alice was suddenly able to sing during the funeral pyre.  Have they been faking us out this whole time or suddenly found autotune?  And then I went back to sobbing.

I've slept 2 hours in the last two days.  I'm too tired to be up posting about this.

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That was amazing. The idea of “did I do something heroic or just kill myself” is what I will always remember.  Of course Q thinks I that way. 

Also, dead is a relative concept on this show much like the concept that 300 years have immediately passed, so I’m looking forward to season five!

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Hmm. Only started watching this show a few weeks ago due to the fandom coverage of the Eliot/Q thing. This was ... not a cool way to end that. It’s almost like they changed their minds at the last minute and veered back to Alice.

I know that a lot of this show is about subverting the “handsome white male hero’s journey” trope, but with that actor and character, they had created a real, multidimensional, flawed, depressed dude who I had fallen in love with. He wasn’t a hero, he was a sensitive guy trying to figure his shit out, and look out for his friends. I wasn’t ready to lose the character yet. Maybe if I’d watched the show from the beginning, instead of over a short time frame, it wouldn’t hurt as much. (Or would hurt more?) But still, the show earned that reaction, so fine, fair play to them.

But teasing and then demolishing the Eliot/Q ship feels way too close to the Lexa/Clarke move that made me stop watching The 100. 

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I mean, now that my tears have temporarily subsided, I can admit that the actual moment when Quentin died was really well done and emotional, as was the campfire goodbye scene. There were a lot of scenes I liked individually, like Josh and his fish powers, then Quentin and Josh with the Executive God (why ARE nickles bigger than dimes?!), and the defeat of the Monster itself, and when all the magicians all over the world were doing a spell together. And him fixing the mirror was a good way to use his specialty of fixing small things, and using the mirror world to trap the monster was a good way to bring in different plots towards the end.

But in general, I found this season to have lacked the consistency of the last few seasons. It had lots of great episodes and moments, but having seen how it all ended, it all seemed to be kind of pointless. Especially because my favorite episode was the one going through Elliot's memories, and we all saw where that led. Nowhere, it led nowhere, is what I mean. Last season had a run of classic episodes, like best episodes in genre television history, from about halfway through until the end, that this season didnt quite get. Possibly because they dipped back into the dull Alice/Quentin ship, partially because Elliot was gone most of the time as a character, and maybe it was just because it felt more disjointed than previous seasons. 

I mean, I can kind of appreciate their bravery in killing off their main character, and basically saying that he was giving up his role as protagonist to hand it off to his friends, but I cant help but think it would be even more brave to have their seemingly white heterosexual male protagonist fall in love with his male best friend and them end up happily ever after together. And I am trying to take off my shipper glasses and be objective from a writing perspective, but I still think that this would be a better story. If you have to kill off a main character, you better have a damn good reason, and it better make sense for their arc. This doesent seem like a natural progression of the story, or of Quentin's story. Really, it would make more sense for Quentin, who has suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts for most of his life (they even had a freaking suicide hotline thing at the end!) to learn to live and find his own way to fulfillment and happiness, not that the best thing he can do for his friends is to die so they can do other cool stuff without him. 

Now back to crying.

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I think I would have been okay if this were a series finale. As it stands, I’m angry. Peaches and plums, my ass. That’s really all I have to say about that.

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I love this show, but I can’t even imagine it without Quentin. He wasn’t even my favorite character, but he’s the glue that held them all together. I’m so sad. 

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I was fine until they sang together, and it was so beautiful. That's when it really started to hurt. I hated Q in the beginning. I hated everything about him. Now, I'm sitting here ugly crying because he's dead.

And apparently Fen and Josh might be dead too.

Wonderful.

This finale is going have me sad for a good, long while.

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Oh that ending.  😢😢😢😢😢

The ceremony was so gut wrenching.  I was sorry they were burning the things that were meaningful for them with Q.  I would think I'd want to keep them.

The resolution of the monster problem seemed rushed, like they realized they were out of time and had to finish it.  This show needs longer seasons.  We have to wait 9 months and only get 13 episodes.  It ends, and I'm like "that's it?"

Along those lines, it really wasn't cool to make us go a whole year without Eliot.  Now we have to go 9 more months without him.  I'm also very tired of them not having magic or having to ration it. This show is called The Magicians.  I want to see them using magic. I liked in this episode that they got to use magic.  Next season I want to see the gang all together (except apparently for Q 😢) working together using magic and kicking butt together. 

So I'm seeing from other posts Q is really really well and truly dead?  Did the actor want to leave or is this a creative decision?  I'm sorry if so.  Won't be the same without him.

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3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

The last twenty minutes was beautifully done.  But my overall feeling about the season was that it was lacking.  The Monster thing just didn't work out as well as the set up seemed to promise.  And it was a huge mistake to have Elliot "gone" all season. 

This season was severely lacking IMO. I am so sick of the Elliot-is-a-monster plot that I don't care who has to die to end it, though I have to say that killing off the main character that the series rotates around seems stupid.

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Yeah, I think I'm done with the show. I'm not someone who categorically hates sad endings, but they need to be earned. This was not earned. This was rushed, this was dumb and this hurts. It actually reminded me of Ianto dying on Torchwood. There was no point beyond wanting to shock the audience.

Plus, I still think "Magic comes from pain" is a terrible terrible terrible thing to say and then actually MAKE TRUE.

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8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I mean, now that my tears have temporarily subsided, I can admit that the actual moment when Quentin died was really well done and emotional, as was the campfire goodbye scene. There were a lot of scenes I liked individually, like Josh and his fish powers, then Quentin and Josh with the Executive God (why ARE nickles bigger than dimes?!), and the defeat of the Monster itself, and when all the magicians all over the world were doing a spell together. And him fixing the mirror was a good way to use his specialty of fixing small things, and using the mirror world to trap the monster was a good way to bring in different plots towards the end.

But in general, I found this season to have lacked the consistency of the last few seasons. It had lots of great episodes and moments, but having seen how it all ended, it all seemed to be kind of pointless. Especially because my favorite episode was the one going through Elliot's memories, and we all saw where that led. Nowhere, it led nowhere, is what I mean. Last season had a run of classic episodes, like best episodes in genre television history, from about halfway through until the end, that this season didnt quite get. Possibly because they dipped back into the dull Alice/Quentin ship, partially because Elliot was gone most of the time as a character, and maybe it was just because it felt more disjointed than previous seasons. 

I mean, I can kind of appreciate their bravery in killing off their main character, and basically saying that he was giving up his role as protagonist to hand it off to his friends, but I cant help but think it would be even more brave to have their seemingly white heterosexual male protagonist fall in love with his male best friend and them end up happily ever after together. And I am trying to take off my shipper glasses and be objective from a writing perspective, but I still think that this would be a better story. If you have to kill off a main character, you better have a damn good reason, and it better make sense for their arc. This doesent seem like a natural progression of the story, or of Quentin's story. Really, it would make more sense for Quentin, who has suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts for most of his life (they even had a freaking suicide hotline thing at the end!) to learn to live and find his own way to fulfillment and happiness, not that the best thing he can do for his friends is to die so they can do other cool stuff without him. 

Now back to crying.

I agree. The message was a little concerning (everyone will miss you when you are gone but be better off without you?), but also I think Quentin's story is one that I enjoy being told. It is already counter to the white Male protagonist trope to have a bisexual person with clinical depression. He is like the opposite if toxic masculinity. He cares deeply about his friends and feels openly. I think what is bothering me most about the Alice thing, is that it is the most tropey. Guy dies to save his girlfriend like a big hero. It was unnecessary. We would have felt that loss regardless. Hell, we all felt that loss when we saw the group scene. If you want a traditional woman crying and screaming while being dragged away, make it Julia, his best friend from childhood. Once they had the vials, there was no reason Julia couldn't join. The mirror world doesn't allow for magic, so she is equally capable of contributing. Justify it with her wanting to throw the being who again took away her agency into the Seam. That? That would have been earned and would have made the restoration of her magic more emotional. It also could have given is a lovely scene before battle where we essentially called back to their lifelong friendship. 

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Alright bitches, where the fuck are my peaches and plums!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

I hate to say this because I really do like this show, but this season was a bit of a disappointment. There were some really great moments and while I'm not usually a shipper I loved the way Margo and Josh hooked up, but I missed having the gang together and I miss Elliot. Don't get me wrong, HA was good as the monster but I missed Elliot. 

And like everyone else, if tptb had to kill off Quentin, why did his death scene have to be with Alice? 

While other season endings have left me yelling WTF, and wondering how the hell I'll make it til next season, as sad as Q's death was (and it was) I was left with a "that's all there is?" empty feeling.

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Who's crying? I'm not crying! You're crying!

Man this was some highly emotional stuff. Is Q really perma-dead? It sure seems that way. Would be kinda bullshit for the writers to pull a fakeout after this emotional ending for him.

I would have loved to see him be with Elliot for a while though. Wasn't really thrilled when the writers put him back with Alice, to have a more drmatic death scene...

I think if I was a writer on this show I would have restructured the episode. I would have had Elliot be freed and magically healed first. The sister was more scary anyway and would have made for a better final boss. Then you could have had the scenes we had with Alice and Q with Elliot and Q instead. Then we would have gotten a resolution to their storyline and still had a dramatic death for Q, with Elliot being draged away screaming instead of Alice. You could deal with Julias bullshit in the back half of the episode.

Speking of Julia. So she is back to status Qo. Meh.

I hope Alice as head librarian is a fakeout. I couldn't think of a worse choice. If I were them I would have asked Q Who has a kinder heart and loves books more than him? We've already seen that you can work for the library when you are dead.

Margo's and Elliot's adventures in the future are going to be fun next season. Missed their dynamic a lot this season.

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6 hours ago, Poltargyst said:

So I'm seeing from other posts Q is really really well and truly dead?  Did the actor want to leave or is this a creative decision?  I'm sorry if so.  Won't be the same without him.

Spoiler

JR exit interviews essentially say the EPs approached him at end of S3 to say they felt Q’s story was coming to an end and the wanted to do in this direction. They kept him under a gag order for 12 months even though he wanted to tell his cast mates.

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So this morning I'm making coffee and randomly Q saying "Falcor..." pops in my head and I smile and then get sad.

I also didn't love Q when this story began but somehow grew to love him. I'm gonna miss his genuine heart. 

58 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I agree. The message was a little concerning (everyone will miss you when you are gone but be better off without you?), but also I think Quentin's story is one that I enjoy being told. It is already counter to the white Male protagonist trope to have a bisexual person with clinical depression. He is like the opposite if toxic masculinity. He cares deeply about his friends and feels openly. I think what is bothering me most about the Alice thing, is that it is the most tropey. Guy dies to save his girlfriend like a big hero. It was unnecessary. We would have felt that loss regardless. Hell, we all felt that loss when we saw the group scene. If you want a traditional woman crying and screaming while being dragged away, make it Julia, his best friend from childhood. Once they had the vials, there was no reason Julia couldn't join. The mirror world doesn't allow for magic, so she is equally capable of contributing. Justify it with her wanting to throw the being who again took away her agency into the Seam. That? That would have been earned and would have made the restoration of her magic more emotional. It also could have given is a lovely scene before battle where we essentially called back to their lifelong friendship. 

Oh my gosh yes!!! Julia being there would have been better although it would have ripped my heart out ten times more.  I just don't like Alice. Like at all. They are really going to have to work a miracle for me to be interested in her next year. But it's doable I guess because a couple of Seasons ago I didn't much like Julia. I'd say I'm not sure if I want to watch next year but I'm here for Margo and Elliot as long as there is minimal Josh. I STILL don't understand that romance. Actually I'm not liking any of the romances. Let's stick to friends. 

Aww Q. I can't believe this is still bothering me the next morning.

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Damn it. I only just recently got into the show (binged 4 seasons in 3weeks) and that’s a hell of an ending. I have absolutely no idea where they plan to take it next year. Quentin wasnt my favourite character but he was the heart and glue of the group (and show).

I’m glad to see Margo and Eliot together again, those two are best bouncing off each other. I think I missed something though, how did Josh end up in Fillory? 

When is Julia going to get some agency over her own body? They always find some way to take her choices away. It is nice they let her have a proper goodbye. The Julia/Quentin friendship was one of my favourite parts of the show. It was such a rare platonic M/F friendship and they were so good together. I’m glad she has some magic (and I loved her mirroring Q’s card trick) now but it seems like she’s been too much to just have normal magic at this point. 

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I slept on it. I read the article posted in the media thread.

I'm going to be okay with this.

For me, and of course this is colored by my own experiences in life, Quentin's story has always been about his depression, how it affects the people who love him and his awareness of how he fits in the world. He was a character that loved others, was loved by others, but he was probably incapable of loving himself. 

His debriefing with Penny was perfect. Yes Quentin, you did something heroic, you did something for the people you love, and you can put all of the pain you lived with your entire life behind you.

Consider yourself free of the weight you've always carried on you shoulders; go ahead and move on.

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29 minutes ago, chrisvee said:
  Reveal spoiler

JR exit interviews essentially say the EPs approached him at end of S3 to say they felt Q’s story was coming to an end and the wanted to do in this direction. They kept him under a gag order for 12 months even though he wanted to tell his cast mates.

Maybe I am just in denial, but in a show like this I am never sure someone is well and truly dead. The writers say he is, but they would, wouldn't they? They aren't going to say: "yeah, we emotionally manipulated all of you for a really sweet twist next year." If it is permanent, they are going to have to write a pretty tight season next season because Jason Ralph acted his butt off this season and Quentin's story was exceptionally compelling to watch. They also have to figure out how to have the characters mourn without reminding the audience how mad they are that the writers killed him off. 

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20 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

I slept on it. I read the article posted in the media thread.

I'm going to be okay with this.

For me, and of course this is colored by my own experiences in life, Quentin's story has always been about his depression, how it affects the people who love him and his awareness of how he fits in the world. He was a character that loved others, was loved by others, but he was probably incapable of loving himself. 

His debriefing with Penny was perfect. Yes Quentin, you did something heroic, you did something for the people you love, and you can put all of the pain you lived with your entire life behind you.

Consider yourself free of the weight you've always carried on you shoulders; go ahead and move on.

A point I saw made elsewhere is that this also sends the message to suicidal people that death will bring them peace.

Having slept on it, still really not okay with the way this was handled. 

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25 minutes ago, kieyra said:

A point I saw made elsewhere is that this also sends the message to suicidal people that death will bring them peace.

Having slept on it, still really not okay with the way this was handled. 

This. Imagining your funeral isn't uncommon for those with suicidal thoughts, and this combined that with the promise that once you die things will be better for you and for your loved ones. 

I still think it was a beautiful ending for Quentin, but I agree that it could have been incredibly triggering, especially for those who found a lot in common with a character who suffered from similar struggles. 

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11 hours ago, kieyra said:

Hmm. Only started watching this show a few weeks ago due to the fandom coverage of the Eliot/Q thing. This was ... not a cool way to end that. It’s almost like they changed their minds at the last minute and veered back to Alice.

The only way they make this up to the Eliot/Q shippers is to somehow end the series by having Eliot die, get his pass from Penny, and walk through the door to find Quentin waiting for him and telling him he is late as a callback to their first meeting. Well, now I am going to be disappointed in however they actually end the series. 

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12 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Desperate, denial driven internet search says not so much. 

I hope the producers are lying but I don't think they are.  

No, it's pretty much confirmed that Q is dead for good and ain't coming back a la Alice. I wasn't entirely serious anyway. This is the post Game of Thrones world where even a central character can be killed off forever. I was gutted last night because I wasn't spoiled (unlike when Buffy Ann Summers threw herself off that tower 18 years ago) and for a brief, horrible moment, I thought my favorite show had died with Quentin. He wasn't my absolute favorite character (that would be Margo) but he was, as others have said, the glue that held the group together. He will be greatly missed. I've been perfectly fine with this season and I hope next season is just as good.

We'll see.

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First, my disclaimer.  I have not watched the last two episodes.  The Magicians seems to always end on a cliffhanger, so I typically stop watching an episode or two before the end so it hopefully makes the wait easier.  Debatable if that works, especially when you consider I still read the spoilers.  J

Anyway, I think I might be done with this show.  Or at least I don’t think I’ll be paying for it anymore.  (I currently watch through Amazon Prime.)  I don’t think I’ve been watching the show the showrunners have been telling, if you get my meaning.  This season seems to end with a couple of themes/storylines I just didn’t expect to see in this show.  So there is a disconnect between the show I *thought* I was watching and the story they are trying to tell.

The showrunners have known since before the first word was written for season four that this was the end for Jason/Quentin.  That means all the storylines related to him were on purpose.  They told the story they wanted to tell. Meaning…

One, Alice was isolated all season because they wanted her to be isolated.  They resolutely refused to build relationships between her and the other characters and instead kept her focus on Quentin.  Why???  Why was it important that she ends the season without other significant relationships?  Maybe next season will explore that, but I’m not sure I care enough to stick around for that.

Two, Quentin spent all season being sad, depressed, and miserable just to kill him off in the end.  What sort of message does that send?  Life sucks and then you die?  But everything is better?  All so we could have fifteen minutes exploring whether or not he died so he could save his friends or commit suicide? Yeah, this could be somewhat irresponsible.

Three, they wanted their heterosexual, white, cis couple back together in the end regardless if it made sense.  I was really excited a few episodes back when it looked like Quentin was clearly over Alice.  People. Move. On.  And I was excited to see a show I loved showing how one partner moves on when the other hasn’t moved on quite as much.  That’s totally realistic and heartbreaking. But somehow in the last two episodes, Quentin decided he still wanted her.  When I first heard he took her back I was hoping it was so they could explore how someone with low self-esteem and depression might go back to someone even if they know it’s not a good relationship for them simply because they don’t feel they could do better.  That would have been a different way to approach the love triangle.  Alice, the old relationship, but known, against Eliot, the scary new relationship.  But nope.  Quentin just needed a girlfriend so his death could be more tragic.  Ugh.

Four, yes, people like people who like other people.  And, yes, sometimes people die before you can tell them you like them.  Totally realistic.  Know what?  I just don’t care.  There is nothing in my life at this moment that makes me want to spend time on a story that is realistic in a sad and depressing way.  Is it a valid story to tell?  Absolutely.  No question.  It’s just not a story *I* want to watch.  There was no reason to revisit A Life in a Day and bait the audience like that.  Because I don’t care what they say, *that* was baiting the audience.  They are aware enough of LBGT storylines in popular culture and their show specifically to know a portion of the audience would latch on to that.  Teasing that without any sort of payoff at all.  Not even a real meeting between Eliot and Quentin…

Yeah, I think I might be done.  I’ll totally watch the last two episodes eventually. 

Sadly this is not the first time I’ve had to realize the show I was watching was not the show the showrunners were trying to tell.  Maybe it really is me.  Apparently, Joss Whedon (and Co.) and I have different ideas on whether or not Angel is a good boyfriend.  J

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Even though I predicted this, I'm really not okay. I've been dealing with a major medical issue for most of the last year which has caused depression. With Quentin dying and whatever Avengers Endgame has planned for me next week it's just not good for me right now. At least Quentin was able to see that his life mattered to others because depression lies to you about that. I'm not sure what to say about this right now so I'll leave my thoughts about Q's death for a later time.

I'm mad that once again Julia lost her choice. Was that really necessary?  Penny could have, oh I don't know, gone into her mind and asked her. For fuck's sake.

So magic is overpowering right now because of the reservoir leaking out of the mirror world, Eliot is back and he already was a powerful magician, he's dealing with his grief for Quentin and the monster using his body. He better be fucking on fire next season or I'ma cut a bitch.

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You know, I'm even sad about Monster being thrown in The Seam. A better story would have been Quentin not dying and letting Everett be a god, he would soon be not caring about anything anyway because isn't that what they spent this season telling us? Julia was worried about it for herself. Then maybe we could have an interesting story for Monster with him learning to deal with his feelings and that he thinks things in this world are beautiful. Bring in a new great actor to play him and bing bang boom, next season would be awesome. Without Quentin having to die. Fuck the whole library plot which I'm sure will take up half of next season. I don't think I care.

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SCREW YOU, SHOW! *sob*

Uggh. I loved/hated this. It was beautifully done, but man - what a punch to the gut!

Please can we FF to next season? And can our show be renewed for another 5 seasons, and for maybe a full season?

And for the love of gawd, can we please have our sweet Q back? We already know they know how to steal a Metro card!

*sob*

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43 minutes ago, festivus said:

Even though I predicted this, I'm really not okay. I've been dealing with a major medical issue for most of the last year which has caused depression. With Quentin dying and whatever Avengers Endgame has planned for me next week it's just not good for me right now. At least Quentin was able to see that his life mattered to others because depression lies to you about that. I'm not sure what to say about this right now so I'll leave my thoughts about Q's death for a later time.

Festivus, you matter. Depression lies, especially when you're weakened by medical issues. You matter. <3 Hoping for a speedy recovery for you, and the strength to get you there!

TOPIC? One of the things I loved about the Quentin/Eliot possible storyline is that being bisexual didn't even seem to faze Q, and it never really did. Q was one of those beautiful (if damaged) souls who see and love people for who they are, and who is absolutely devoted to those he loves.

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2 hours ago, The Companion said:

Maybe I am just in denial, but in a show like this I am never sure someone is well and truly dead. The writers say he is, but they would, wouldn't they? They aren't going to say: "yeah, we emotionally manipulated all of you for a really sweet twist next year." If it is permanent, they are going to have to write a pretty tight season next season because Jason Ralph acted his butt off this season and Quentin's story was exceptionally compelling to watch. They also have to figure out how to have the characters mourn without reminding the audience how mad they are that the writers killed him off. 

Spoiler

Well I agree we can’t predict the outcome. But all signs point to final in a way that Jon Snow’s death (for example) didn’t such as keeping the entire cast out of the loop, the ‘seam’, etc. He could have some Gandalfian resurrection if the old guys decide he’s needed etc but I suspect the EPs would do that as a last ditch effort to save their show not as something that is planned now. 

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46 minutes ago, festivus said:

You know, I'm even sad about Monster being thrown in The Seam. A better story would have been Quentin not dying and letting Everett be a god, he would soon be not caring about anything anyway because isn't that what they spent this season telling us? Julia was worried about it for herself. Then maybe we could have an interesting story for Monster with him learning to deal with his feelings and that he thinks things in this world are beautiful. Bring in a new great actor to play him and bing bang boom, next season would be awesome. Without Quentin having to die. Fuck the whole library plot which I'm sure will take up half of next season. I don't think I care.

Yeah. I think the Monster plot would have had legs bc Fillory apparently needs a god and redeemed Monster v Everett could have been a thing.

Especially since we saw him mulling over the beauty of a leaf and feeling sad he has no name.

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2 hours ago, treasaigh said:

Three, they wanted their heterosexual, white, cis couple back together in the end regardless if it made sense.  I was really excited a few episodes back when it looked like Quentin was clearly over Alice.  People. Move. On.  And I was excited to see a show I loved showing how one partner moves on when the other hasn’t moved on quite as much.  That’s totally realistic and heartbreaking. But somehow in the last two episodes, Quentin decided he still wanted her.  When I first heard he took her back I was hoping it was so they could explore how someone with low self-esteem and depression might go back to someone even if they know it’s not a good relationship for them simply because they don’t feel they could do better.  That would have been a different way to approach the love triangle.  Alice, the old relationship, but known, against Eliot, the scary new relationship.  But nope.  Quentin just needed a girlfriend so his death could be more tragic.  Ugh.

Certainly a reasonable take on it.

My take is that Quentin's reconciliation with Alice was necessary to show that he had shaken off one of the things that was a key part of his depression.  Not that he was sad about not having Alice in his life. That's not it at all.

In his explanation to Alice in episode 12 about maybe trying again with her, he says that he's finally learned to stop judging people against how he felt things should be. After watching this episode, that scene makes more sense to me now. Quentin told us that he freed himself from one of his many childhood demons. When he did that, he found he could trust people, trust her. As Alice then pointed out, that trust should include himself. 

So as we get to this episode, the story has nothing to do with which person Quentin is going to have a romantic future with. It instead has everything to do with Quentin trusting himself, slaying his demons, embracing who he is (repairer of small things, a hero, a man who truly loves his friends), and bringing his story in timeline 40 to a sad ending for everybody (but him). 

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