S08.E01: Winterfell

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

Daenerys arrives at Winterfell, and Jon Snow gets some big news.

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[Spartan Girl]

Yikes, Dany is not getting off to a good start in the North. At least she's got Jon to keep her warm, lol...

At least until Sam let the cat out of the bag to Jon. Yikes again. I know I should feel bad for Sam finding out about his family, but they betrayed Oleanna so screw them. 

Yay, Jon and Arya reunion! And yay Tormund is okay!

[anamika]

Arya and Gendry! That was cute. It was nice seeing Arya genuinely smile more. Maisie Williams comes through with her A+ acting.

Arya claiming Sansa is the smartest person alive as Sansa behaves like a condescending undiplomatic idiot is just terrible - but par for the course with this show. Other characters have to constantly mention how smart Sansa is because the writing makes it clear that she's a fool. Also what exactly did Sansa do last season that makes Arya proclaim that Sansa is the cleverest person ever?

If Sansa has a problem with dragons or Jon's decisions then she should put forward her ideas on how to deal with the dead. Constantly criticizing everything Jon does while offering no plans in return shows that she is only interested in creating conflict.

Cersei with the constant dumb decisions. No wonder Sansa understands her well.

Jon riding a dragon. Total fanservice moment there. But the Jon-Dany moment was welcome time away from the whinging elsewhere.

Jon's reunions were nice. Ghost should have made an appearance.

That last scene. I guess this is where the actual show starts with the important things playing out in episode two.

It was an okay episode for the premiere. Lots of unnecessary drama with the dead on their way.  

Edited April 15, 2019 by anamika

[mac123x]

Moving all the chess pieces into place, I know, but it was kinda boring.  Arya was acting weird.  Weirder than usual that is.  He conversation with Gendry was stilted and strange.  Are they trying to give them some romantic plot?  If so, I'm not feeling it at all.  Also, Sansa is the smartest woman Arya knows?  She needs to widen her circle of acquaintances

[Artsda]

I've been waiting for Jon & Arya to reunite for so long! 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Artsda

[SeanC]

John Bradley was the acting standout of this episode by a mile.  He’s always been quietly excellent, but he got a really excellent showcase scene with Daenerys (Clarke and Glen also played that well).

I liked all the various Arya reunions we got this week, and the opening bit of her watching everybody arrive in the procession.

There's no reason for Sansa to love Dany right out of the gate.  However, the way she's characterized here is nonsense and completely undercuts how smart and skilled a player the writers keep telling us she is.  While Jon kneeling when he didn't have to is dumb, that's not public knowledge, and when Jon makes the fairly obvious pitch that they need Dany's armies to survive, the writers don't bother giving Sansa a rebuttal, probably because there isn't one, but the writers want to have conflict anyway.  Giving Dany the cold shoulder so publicly is pointless and only diminishes Sansa’s own influence.  If she’s “the smartest person [Arya’s] ever met”, she wouldn’t be venting her spleen to no purpose.

It’s amazing how much the dragonriding effects have advanced compared to the very fake-looking sequence in episode 509.  The way they broached the subject of Jon riding a dragon was really anticlimactic, though.

The bit with Ned Umber’s eyes opening in the background was some of the more effective horror filmmaking in the show.

[Sakura12]

Chicago decided to celebrate the premiere by snowing. 

Telling someone you murdered their family is not the way to get on their good side, Dany. Now Jon knows you are are his aunt and he's the true King. Now what he does with that information is another story. 

I loved Arya's reunions with Jon, Gendry and the Hound. 

I bet Jamie never expected to see Bran again. But I guess it's good he's there to tell them that Cersei is not sending any army because she thinks she can win against the dead on her own. I keep seeing people saying Dany's entitled, Sansa's entitled too. You have to be to be a ruler, that's why Jon while a nice guy isn't strong enough to be a long lived ruler. He's like Ned and look how that ended for him. Dany and Sansa would probably be decent rulers together if they can get past their pettiness. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Sakura12

[Growsonwalls]

I'm glad Sam dropped the bomb on Jon early in the season. I didn't want that dragged out. The dragons being all "ew" to seeing Jon/Dany sexytime was funny.

Lots of great reunions: Arya and Jon, Arya and Gendry, Arya and the Hound, Theon and Yara, Jaime and Bran!!! I like that the show hasn't forgotten the human element.

I'm with Sansa about Dany. You can't just ride in on your dragons and proclaim yourself queen and expect everyone to bend the knee. This is the thing that's Dany's downfall -- she's always felt entitled to rule, and always hits up against the reality that saying you're the queen and being the mother of dragons doesn't mean your whole kingdom will respect you.

As for Sam, the way he dropped the bomb on Jon was cold, but it was revenge for the way Dany informed Sam that she'd killed his family. Like it or not Jon is now tied to his aunt and even if they stop sleeping together their fortunes are intertwined.

Cersei and Euron? Didn't expect that but ... I really wonder how they're going to keep Cersei and Tyrion in the storyline because it seems like they're becoming more and more peripheral.

[jcin617]

5 minutes ago, anamika said:

Also what exactly did Sansa do last season that makes Arya proclaim that Sansa is the cleverest person ever?

She outmaneuvered Littlefinger?   

Edited April 15, 2019 by jcin617

[Lemuria]

7 minutes ago, mac123x said:

Also, Sansa is the smartest woman Arya knows?  She needs to widen her circle of acquaintances

The Sansa-pimping is being ratcheted up.  I'm sure if it was LC or GC who was quoted in a recent article talking about Sansa's "irrepressible ambition and desire to rule,"and it seems that's more behind her attitude than a desire to protect the North.

I mean, did she really criticize the logistics of dealing with the army and dragons that came to help save the North?   

[anamika]

4 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

She outmaneuvered Littlefinger?   

At the very end with Bran and Arya's help. After getting manipulated by him for a whole season into nearly executing her sister and deposing her brother. That makes her the smartest person ever?

What would have made her the smartest person would have been if she had got rid of LF at the start of season 7 - there was no need of him anymore and everyone at WF already disliked him.

And she did not really outmaneuver him. She just called everyone to the great hall, had a sham trial and had him executed.

2 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

The Sansa-pimping is being ratcheted up.

It will be worse next episode with Cogman's writing. Characters will be queuing up to talk about how smart Sansa is.

Edited April 15, 2019 by anamika

[LoveLeigh]

It was good to have GOT back. I was a little disappointed at the slow start and expected this episode to be "movie length" and more thrilling but it worked because it tied them all cohesively together and now they can go forward to a conclusion. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[Lemuria]

3 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

She outmaneuvered Littlefinger?   

Not really.  Until almost the very end, she was listening to him.  He made one mistake and said something about Arya that Sansa knew wasn't true:  That Arya wanted to rule Winterfell.  If he hadn't said that, she might actually have tried to have Arya killed.

[Mya Stone]

This. Was. EVERYTHING. 

I’ve waited for this moment for 18 years. And I’ll be damned if I wasn’t a sobbing mess. 

[anamika]

1 minute ago, Mya Stone said:

This. Was. EVERYTHING. 

I’ve waited for this moment for 18 years. And I’ll be damned if I wasn’t a sobbing mess. 

Best part of the episode honestly. Enjoyed all the Arya scenes. That little twirl she did after meeting Gendry.

Plus, I like Arya's season 8 longer hair. Makes her look softer somehow.

[mac123x]

4 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

As for Sam, the way he dropped the bomb on Jon was cold, but it was revenge for the way Dany informed Sam that she'd killed his family.

I thought she handled it well.  She didn't realize Sam was related to Randyll until he mentioned it, and rather than hide the fact that she executed his father and brother, she came right out with it.  I appreciate they didn't play the "keeping secrets to cause more drama later" card.  Same thing with telling Jon that he fucked his aunt, I mean that he's Aegon VI

3 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

I was a little disappointed at the slow start and expected this episode to be "movie length"

Yeah, what was that?  I thought all the episodes were supposed to be longer this season, but this clocked in at 53 minutes (not counting the unnecessarily long Previously On).  I guess that only applies to the final episode?  In which case, big deal -- lots of series finales on broadcast TV do 2 hour episodes.

[Conan Troutman]

Solid start. Lots of setup of course, but also plenty of ground covered. Yara's rescue felt a bit rushed, maybe not the scene itself but that went without any problems and was over in less than five minutes. 

Last Hearth went down very quickly and not even on screen - though that scene with young Umber being flayed White Walker style was pretty great, just whish we could've gotten a bit more of that. But I guess there's plenty of that coming, so that's fine with me. 

It seems where going to get more season seven style Winterfell drama, whith Arya being weirdly antagonizing to everyone because plot. Oh well, if the conclusion is going to be en par with LF's ending, I'll take it. 

Cersei wanting Bronn to take out Tyrion is a nice move, both by Cersei and the show. Cersei can test Bronn's loyalty and the show can build up some drama for the second half of the season. 

Dany and Jon riding the dragons was visually disappointing, looked way to green screeny. But you can't really not show them on dragon back together for at least one scene, so what is a show to do? And the dragons looked fine as usual

Sam didn't take the news well, obviously. Can't blame him and that he told Jon/Aegon right away makes sense. Let's see how that plays out. 

[Advance35]

Well thanks to Jon's bending of the knee, Lord Glover took whatever forces he had and went home.  I guess he's hoping the other, clearly displeased Lords, won't do the same.   Whoever leaves will doubtlessly wind up as part of the Army of the Dead and their deaths in no way end the problems they can cause.

Sansa was right.  He came walking into the North with a Queen nobody wanted and people are pissed.  He keeps expecting everyone to blindly follow him and STILL hasn't caught on, that it's not how people work.

I thought Sansa was fine with Dany. Clearly cold but obedient.  Winterfell is Dany's.  She's pissed but she'll do her duty.   Though it is a legit question, how will they feed all of the extra mouths?

Line of the night goes to Sansa.

Tyrion: Last time we saw each other was Joffrey's wedding.  A miserable affair.

Sansa: It had it's moments.

[Growsonwalls]

I think what I dislike about Dany is that she is one of those people who likes to think she's an enlightened ruler but the minute she feels challenged she goes all out with the burning and the crucification and methods that Cersei would employ. She's not any different from the other rulers but she's convinced in her mind that she's this amazing, humane ruler. 

I know Sansa gets a lot of hate but her experiences have hardened her to the point where she knows that she needs to rule by practical governance, and not "hey I'm the mother of dragons bend the knee."

[stagmania]

Before I get into nitpicking, I just want to say I really enjoyed that episode. I was spoiled so I knew not to expect any major events, and I really enjoyed most of the character interactions. Even the parts I expected to be annoying played better and with more nuance than I anticipated.

This was an A+ dragon episode, but seriously - where the eff is Ghost?

[Mya Stone]

8 minutes ago, mac123x said:

I thought she handled it well.  She didn't realize Sam was related to Randyll until he mentioned it, and rather than hide the fact that she executed his father and brother, she came right out with it.  I appreciate they didn't play the "keeping secrets to cause more drama later" card.  Same thing with telling Jon that he fucked his aunt, I mean that he's Aegon VI

Yeah, what was that?  I thought all the episodes were supposed to be longer this season, but this clocked in at 53 minutes (not counting the unnecessarily long Previously On).  I guess that only applies to the final episode?  In which case, big deal -- lots of series finales on broadcast TV do 2 hour episodes.

The next episode is under an hour as well, then episode 3 is 1 hr, 22 min, 4 is 1 hr 18 min, and 5 and 6 are 1 hr, 20 min. 

[bluvelvet]

Glad they got Jon finding out the truth done in the first episode, now we can move on. 

Honestly have  no issue with Sansa and the North giving Dany the cold shoulder. They would’ve done the same to Cersei. They don’t know her and they already proclaimed their King. Jon isn’t wrong in bending the knee, but give them and Sansa time to warm up. As said above, you can’t just waltz in and proclaim yourself Queen and expect everyone to be happy about it, especially when they don’t know you. I also  caught Dany’s smirk when the dragons are flying over the people and they were running scared. 

Jon and Gendry have no idea about the cold blooded killer that Arya has become. 

Really really hope we get to see Ghost at some point in time. He’s missed. 

In regards to next weeks previews, I will wait to see how the scene plays out but Dany going on about Jamie killing her father is a tad hypocritical to me. 

Also is Cersei still pregnant? She was drinking that red wine and seemed a bit sad after Euron made a comment about putting a prince in her belly. She’s cold though, now she plans to kill Jaime also  

Yara is rescued yay!!

Edited April 15, 2019 by bluvelvet
Grammar

[Bill1978]

I think my favourite part of the premiere was the brand spanking new opening credits. Loved it and all its details. I feel there is information in what we saw.

The rest of the episode was just standard television drama. Nothing truly spectacular happened plot wise. Just mainly characters learning what the audience already knew. Which is nice, cause there is nothing worse than characters keeping secrets for the sake of drama.

I couldn't help but feel during the Dragon Flight that I was watching a live action remake of How To Train Your Dragon.

I started this season only wanting Cersei to die, for the ending to be satisfying. But I'm beginning to think I also need Dany to be knocked off her pompous pedestal for it to be satisfying. Sometimes I like her and sometimes I think she is an entitled brat. Which I guess gives her more depth that Cersei in my book.

I admit I'm here for the White Walkers plot. Always have been. I don't give two hoots about the politics of the plot. And it is strange that I want more White Walkers cause they bring the horror aspect to this show and I hate horror. The show makes the scary past worse by not lighting things very very well. I felt like I was watching a blank screen at Last Heath for a while, which ramped up the Oh My God, when will it jump out feeling. And even though I knew Umber was going to reawake I thought it was done extremely well. Probably the highlight of the episode for me.  And I hope the White Walkers end up being more than just battle scenes.

Should I be shocked that Bronn seems happy to kill Jaime?

[screamin]

So THAT was the episode title HBO guarded so sedulously? Really?

As I mentioned in the Season topic, Jon saying that he gave up his throne to save the North makes it sound like Danaerys demanded he give up his crown in exchange for her help, which is totally NOT what happened and gives the North a bad impression of Danaerys. It's also unnecessarily self-aggrandizing of Jon to give the impression that (as Sam said) he 'sacrificed his crown to save his people' when that's NOT what happened (though Jon does not correct Sam). This goes beyond Jon's usual talent for sticking his foot in his mouth into the realm of dreadful writing.

[Raachel2008]

Eight years waiting for the Jon and Arya scene. EIGHT FUCKING YEARS.

Loved it, minus the "Sansa is the smartest person in the world". AS IF.

Sansa is Westeros version of Regina George, isn't she? 

Bran/Jon, The Hound/Gendry/Arya, Varys/Davos/Tyrion moments were perfect.

Is it just me or the Dothraki wore less furs/clothes than the Northeners?

John Bradley was awesome.

Sam and Jon scene was better than was exepcting - Kit is far from a great actor, and I was worried he wouldn't deliver, but he did.

Jamie is totally going to save Bran's life this time around.

Cersei is dumb. Bronn will totally join his buddies Jaimie and Tyrion.

'I've always got blue eyes". Ha!

The last scene was fucking awesome!

That last scene was amazing.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Raachel2008

[CherryMalotte]

"My eyes have always been blue!"

Oh Tormund, how I love you.  So glad you are still with us...for the present.

I do like the updated opening.  It was a good opening build up episode.  Good on Dany for being upfront on the Tarly BBQ with Sam, she didn't hide what she did, knew it had to be brutal for him to hear.  I did enjoy her telling Sansa that the dragons would eat what they wanted, after Sansa's snip about how they'd feed them.  These girls working on their northern sisterhood will be interesting, they don't have to like each other, just work together.  Sansa definitely has Cat's need to protect her family, which is even more understood because of all that's been done to her, but like Cat she may miss the bigger picture.  We shall see.

I'm happy, it was worth the wait!
 

Quote

Also is Cersei still pregnant?

I think not.  There was something about the look she gave after he said he would put a prince in her...it wasn't a happy look.  Could be reading too much into it but even Mini Malotte picked up on that.  

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by CherryMalotte

[mac123x]

11 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

Yara's rescue felt a bit rushed, maybe not the scene itself but that went without any problems and was over in less than five minutes. 

I forgot that happened it was so perfunctory.  "Yes, lets wrap this up as quickly and anticlimactically as possible.  Also, let's have Yara and Theon part ways while on a boat in the middle of the ocean."

14 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

Cersei wanting Bronn to take out Tyrion is a nice move, both by Cersei and the show. Cersei can test Bronn's loyalty and the show can build up some drama for the second half of the season. 

And by having Qyburn deliver the message, they avoided having a scene together since the actors have that in their contracts.

I'm not clear on what Bronn is actually going to do though.  He's a mercenary, sure, but he's shown genuine affection for Jaime and Tyrion in the past.  Having him accept a hit job just seems like character regression.

[nodorothyparker]

While this did feel rather lackadaisical and like a lot of filler when we're getting such a shortened final season, I did like all the tie-ins to the very first episode:  Arya and various kids scrambling to make it to the procession, the Unsullied marching in to the same king's processional they used for Robert's entrance, and of course ending with Jaime and Bran. 

It does feel like a lot of anvils were falling that Dany will never be accepted and Jon will have to step up to be the "true" king.  It's also a little ridiculous that all the Northerners are still bickering and sniping about political jockeying with an army of dead on the march, but as usual Dany isn't helping matters at all with not making even the slightest effort to meet them halfway.  She's proving yet again that she knows nothing about the people she feels entitled to rule and doesn't really care.

Loved Bronn's exasperation at now being expected to kill both Lannister brothers.  "That fucking family!"

[FemmyV]

2 minutes ago, CherryMalotte said:

  Good on Dany for being upfront on the Tarly BBQ with Sam, she didn't hide what she did, knew it had to be brutal for him to hear.  I did enjoy her telling Sansa that the dragons would eat what they wanted, after Sansa's snip about how they'd feed them.  These girls working on their northern sisterhood will be interesting, they don't have to like each other, just work together.  Sansa definitely has Cat's need to protect her family, which is even more understood because of all that's been done to her, but like Cat she may miss the bigger picture. 

I agree, Dany knew she was giving unwelcome information and wasn't happy about it, but what was she supposed to do? The deed was done and, if anything, having Sam be the one to show her that the action had a real, human impact that was going to affect someone in her life — I don't think she's ever had to face that kind of reality. All of the previous enemies Dany torched were people whose death wasn't going to have any kind of emotional reverb going back at her, IIRC.

 

[anamika]

So what was up with the Northerners especially giving Missandei and Greyworm the stink eye? Have they not seen any brown skinned people before or is that just their xenophobic tendencies coming to the forefront?

As per the next episode promo, the AOTD is getting there within a day. I think they can stop worrying about issues of food.

[dizzyd]

I was happy for the 1st 5 minutes after waiting 2 years. After that, I kept looking at the time waiting for the episode to end. Disappointed 😔 

[Scarlett45]

8 minutes ago, CherryMalotte said:

I think not.  There was something about the look she gave after he said he would put a prince in her...it wasn't a happy look.  Could be reading too much into it but even Mini Malotte picked up on that.  

I thought that look was one of “if you only knew”....that she’s going to cuckold another husband since she’s had sex with Euron now. She didn’t seem grossed out by him, so likely they will be having sex on the regular. Again she will have to claim her child is not Jaime’s, and Jaime is gone- I think she’s upset about that. 

[TaurusRose]

10 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

Well thanks to Jon's bending of the knee, Lord Glover took whatever forces he had and went home.  I guess he's hoping the other, clearly displeased Lords, won't do the same.   Whoever leaves will doubtlessly wind up as part of the Army of the Dead and their deaths in no way end the problems they can cause.

Sansa was right.  He came walking into the North with a Queen nobody wanted and people are pissed.  He keeps expecting everyone to blindly follow him and STILL hasn't caught on, that it's not how people work.

I thought Sansa was fine with Dany. Clearly cold but obedient.  Winterfell is Dany's.  She's pissed but she'll do her duty.   Though it is a legit question, how will they feed all of the extra mouths?

Line of the night goes to Sansa.

Tyrion: Last time we saw each other was Joffrey's wedding.  A miserable affair.

Sansa: It had it's moments.

Actually Sansa is acting more and more like her mother. I couldn’t stand Cat and I’m doubling down on Sansa. I’d like to see her throat cut. She’s cold and arrogant to everyone. Sansa has none of Dany’s warmth.  I didn’t like Sansa’s conversation with Tyrion.  But there’s not much Sansa could do (short of dying) that would please me. I was sad to see how the little Umber lord was butchered.  Lord Glover was never trustworthy. Here’s hoping he and his people become casualties of the the Night King.

[Scarlett45]

2 minutes ago, mac123x said:

I'm not clear on what Bronn is actually going to do though.  He's a mercenary, sure, but he's shown genuine affection for Jaime and Tyrion in the past.  Having him accept a hit job just seems like character regression.

I think they did that to get Bronn north with the other characters. I don’t think he will actually betray Jaime. AND if they win he will have a big chest of gold for his troubles. 

2 minutes ago, anamika said:

So what was up with the Northerners especially giving Missandei and Greyworm the stink eye? Have they not seen any brown skinned people before or is that just their xenophobic tendencies coming to the forefront?

As per the next episode promo, the AOTD is getting there within a day. I think they can stop worrying about issues of food.

I wondered that too. I know people of many skin hues are seen in King’s Landing, and it’s the capital and a metropolitan city- but I cannot recall seeing any POC in the north. 

[anamika]

“When you’re doing something good for people and you get met with what Sansa gives her when they meet in the courtyard, it’s understandable that you’d be upset.”

— D.B. Weiss on why Daenerys is snippy right back at Sansa.

I am glad that Dany is giving back as good as she gets. She does not need to take Sansa's nonsense silently unlike Jon.

9 minutes ago, screamin said:

If he did, HE'D come off as a besotted fool, but at least he'd take the heat off Dany. Saying "She was willing to help the North as an ally without my bending the knee, but I was so moved by her goodness I decided she was our rightful queen" would make him look rash and infatuated, but it could only make Dany look better. It would certainly make her look better than Jon saying he HAD to give up his crown to her to save the North, which makes her (unfairly) seem greedy instead of generous. 

The North does not like Dany no matter what. I mean, she's come to help them with her dragons and armies and they are still being rude as fuck to her and antagonizing her and giving her the stink eye. Jon saying he bend the knee because he thinks she would be a good queen for the 7K is not going to change their opinion in any way of Dany - they are going to be even more pissed at Jon.

By making it a negotiated contract - that's at least understandable. Because that's what rulers and leaders do - negotiate and make deals for each other's help. Nothing is free in the world of Westeros. The North should understand that after they refused to help Jon and Sansa when they went around begging for their help. Glover refused because he did not want to lose any more of his men helping out the Starks for nothing. But there Dany is - with all her resources to help them. She is not allowed to be selfish and look out for her interests when the North does it every single time?

Hell, Glover has selfishly gone off to his household. But they expect Dany to help for free? Like I said, Cat had to pledge both the KITN and Arya in marriage to the Freys for just the use of a bridge! But the Northerners seem to be unable to comprehend the sacrifice Dany is making for them.

Edited April 15, 2019 by anamika

[SallyAlbright]

Loved Arya being reunited with Jon, the Hound and Gendry. Loved the dragons. Loved Dany's beautiful outfit and matching gloves.

Didn't love creepy Bran or being told how smart Sansa is. Show me. 

[Advance35]

Quote

Actually Sansa is acting more and more like her mother. I couldn’t stand Cat and I’m doubling down on Sansa. I’d like to see her throat cut. She’s cold and arrogant to everyone. Sansa has none of Dany’s warmth. 

Sansa should have her throat cut because she doesn't like Dany?? Oooooookay.

Quote

She's proving yet again that she knows nothing about the people she feels entitled to rule and doesn't really care.

Dany in a nut shell.

[dragonsbite]

Did Bran sit outside all night, while waiting for his old friend? Because it was dusk/nighfall-ish when he spoke with Sam and daylight when Jaime arrived.

[Growsonwalls]

9 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Actually Sansa is acting more and more like her mother. I couldn’t stand Cat and I’m doubling down on Sansa. I’d like to see her throat cut. She’s cold and arrogant to everyone. Sansa has none of Dany’s warmth.  I didn’t like Sansa’s conversation with Tyrion.  But there’s not much Sansa could do (short of dying) that would please me.

Dany is not warm. She wasn't warm when she informed Sam that she butchered his family. She wasn;t warm when she told Jon that everyone in Winterfell had to bow down to her. She's warm with Ser Jorah but he knew Dany when she wasn't so entitled about her divine right to rule. 

Arya is warm to the people she cares about. You could even say Jaime is warm to the people he cares about. Dany isn't IMO warm. 

[TaurusRose]

3 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

Sansa should have her throat cut because she doesn't like Dany?? Oooooookay.

Dany in a nut shell.

Sansa should have her throat cut because she’s not as smart as she thinks she is, I don’t care how many times the show tells me she is. It hasn’t been proven once by anything she’s done on screen. Secondly, she’s got the same tunnel vision that her mother (another one who thought she was so smart and righteous) had and you see what kind of shit storm she started. 

[stagmania]

57 minutes ago, mac123x said:

Moving all the chess pieces into place, I know, but it was kinda boring.  Arya was acting weird.  Weirder than usual that is.  He conversation with Gendry was stilted and strange.  

I know some people are hoping for an Arya romance, but I just don’t see it. She doesn’t seem to have it in her to feel that way about anybody. Even before she went through her training, she saw Gendry more as family than anything else. 

52 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

As for Sam, the way he dropped the bomb on Jon was cold, but it was revenge for the way Dany informed Sam that she'd killed his family. Like it or not Jon is now tied to his aunt and even if they stop sleeping together their fortunes are intertwined.

I thought it was interesting that Jon and Dany being related wasn’t part of that conversation at all - neither Sam nor Jon made the connection. Jon’s thoughts immediately jumped to defending Ned and then his own honor as a man who would never betray a vow.

27 minutes ago, screamin said:

As I mentioned in the Season topic, Jon saying that he gave up his throne to save the North makes it sound like Danaerys demanded he give up his crown in exchange for her help, which is totally NOT what happened and gives the North a bad impression of Danaerys. It's also unnecessarily self-aggrandizing of Jon to give the impression that (as Sam said) he 'sacrificed his crown to save his people' when that's NOT what happened (though Jon does not correct Sam). This goes beyond Jon's usual talent for sticking his foot in his mouth into the realm of dreadful writing.

I actually liked this and thought it was a sign of growth as a politician from Jon. Rather than tell them the dumb truth, he framed the decision in a way that would be more likely to convince them it was the right call. 

On the whole, I liked the Sansa/Jon stuff in the episode more than I expected to, especially once they had their private conversation. She’s not wrong to have some questions, but Jon is also right that he’s earned some trust from her. She keeps undermining him in public, and complaining about having to feed Dany’s army in front of the whole assembly is definitely not respectful. I would like to actually see her being a smart and sophisticated player rather than just constantly being told she is by other characters.

Edited April 15, 2019 by stagmania

[bluvelvet]

So what was the implication when Dany made the comment about Sansa not respecting her. Was she implying she would kill her? Sansa told her the North is hers and she is being obedient even if she doesn’t like her, so I was confused about that comment. Not liking someone doesn’t mean you don’t respect them.

Anyway as Jon said, all irrelevant with the AOTD on their way. 

Also the Umber kid at the end was creepy! 

Edited April 15, 2019 by bluvelvet

[GrailKing]

46 minutes ago, SeanC said:

John Bradley was the acting standout of this episode by a mile.  He’s always been quietly excellent, but he got a really excellent showcase scene with Daenerys (Clarke and Glen also played that well).

I liked all the various Arya reunions we got this week, and the opening bit of her watching everybody arrive in the procession.

There's no reason for Sansa to love Dany right out of the gate.  However, the way she's characterized here is nonsense and completely undercuts how smart and skilled a player the writers keep telling us she is.  While Jon kneeling when he didn't have to is dumb, that's not public knowledge, and when Jon makes the fairly obvious pitch that they need Dany's armies to survive, the writers don't bother giving Sansa a rebuttal, probably because there isn't one, but the writers want to have conflict anyway.  Giving Dany the cold shoulder so publicly is pointless and only diminishes Sansa’s own influence.  If she’s “the smartest person [Arya’s] ever met”, she wouldn’t be venting her spleen to no purpose.

It’s amazing how much the dragonriding effects have advanced compared to the very fake-looking sequence in episode 509.  The way they broached the subject of Jon riding a dragon was really anticlimactic, though.

The bit with Ned Umber’s eyes opening in the background was some of the more effective horror filmmaking in the show.

I don't think it was a total cold shoulder, I also don't think she's playing against Jon, I think it's for Jon,and her house.

Jon just doesn't want Kingship.

So maybe Sansa and Sam are going to work together on a possible future outcome if they survive.

[TaurusRose]

10 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Dany is not warm. She wasn't warm when she informed Sam that she butchered his family. She wasn;t warm when she told Jon that everyone in Winterfell had to bow down to her. She's warm with Ser Jorah but he knew Dany when she wasn't so entitled about her divine right to rule. 

Arya is warm to the people she cares about. You could even say Jaime is warm to the people he cares about. Dany isn't IMO warm. 

Danny has moments of genuine warmth. Sansa never has. There wasn’t any gentle or warm way to tell Sam about his father and brother. I give her props for stating the facts without waffling. That wasn’t easy to do.

Edited April 15, 2019 by taurusrose
Typo correction

[screamin]

25 minutes ago, anamika said:

“When you’re doing something good for people and you get met with what Sansa gives her when they meet in the courtyard, it’s understandable that you’d be upset.”

— D.B. Weiss on why Daenerys is snippy right back at Sansa.

What Sansa gave Danaerys in the courtyard was Winterfell. I saw nothing to fault her behavior for there. 

She could be faulted for being rude in the council meeting, though it's a subject everyone will want to know the answer to, so someone had to ask the question eventually. Basically, I think the way the showrunners are hyping Dany and Sansa's antipathy, to the extent of inventing nonexistent insults in courtyards to make it sound all catfighty, convinces me it's a red herring that will come to nothing.

Edited April 15, 2019 by screamin

[Diana Berry]

3 hours ago, mac123x said:

I forgot that happened it was so perfunctory.  "Yes, lets wrap this up as quickly and anticlimactically as possible.  Also, let's have Yara and Theon part ways while on a boat in the middle of the ocean."

And by having Qyburn deliver the message, they avoided having a scene together since the actors have that in their contracts.

I'm not clear on what Bronn is actually going to do though.  He's a mercenary, sure, but he's shown genuine affection for Jaime and Tyrion in the past.  Having him accept a hit job just seems like character regression.

They can't work together in their contract?  What's that about do tell.

[anamika]

Hahaha! Just saw this on Tumblr!

Quote

You know, it might just be me, but Sam probably should have led with “Ned Stark is not your father”, rather than “Lyanna Stark is your mother”, because I bet Jon had a few seconds of sheer horror

http://beyondmereobsession.tumblr.com/post/184192406734/you-know-it-might-just-be-me-but-sam-probably

[Diana Berry]

3 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

So what was the implication when Dany made the comment about Sansa not respecting her. Was she implying she would kill her? Sansa told her the North is her and she is being obedient even if she doesn’t like her, so I was confused about that comment. Not liking someone doesn’t mean you don’t respect them.

Anyway as Jon said, all irrelevant with the AOTD on their way. 

Also the Umber kid at the end was creepy! 

Yep picked up on that,too.  Sansa better watch her step or vice versa.

[Brn2bwild]

22 minutes ago, anamika said:

So what was up with the Northerners especially giving Missandei and Greyworm the stink eye? Have they not seen any brown skinned people before or is that just their xenophobic tendencies coming to the forefront?

As per the next episode promo, the AOTD is getting there within a day. I think they can stop worrying about issues of food.

I would have liked to have another scene from the perspective of Missandei, Greyworm, and others in Dany's entourage.  What was Missandei doing while Dany did her dragon joyride?  

Also, why no interactions between Lyanna and Jorah, not even a brief, snide aside from Lyanna about Dany consorting with "traitors"?

Edited April 15, 2019 by Brn2bwild

[Advance35]

Quote

What Sansa gave Danaerys in the courtyard was Winterfell. I saw nothing to fault her behavior for there. 

Sansa worked herself numb keeping the Northern Lords in Winterfell and on side for Jon's return.  He gave away the crown the Northern Lord's gave him and as a result, undid a lot of Sansa's work.   Lord Glover took his men and went home.   Jon lost a part of their fighting force.   And it looked like Sansa was the one trying to keep Lord Royce and by extension the Vale, on side.   Lord Royce looks like he's ready to go.

Sansa is like everyone in the North, she hates the Iron Throne and anyone who sits on it.  She is the one working to keep the Vale forces (so it seems) while Dany is scaring locals and threatening the daughter of Great Houses.   

"Dragons eat whatever they want."

Telling Jon, Sansa better behave or else.  Sansa was not openly disrespectful, that's all Dany is entitled too, despite her grand delusions.  And the parade of Yes-Men that follow her around.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Advance35