S17.E04: Survive in Style

[AwesomO4000]

5 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I liked Hester's look but I liked it even more when John Galiano did it.

I was unable to find it, but I'm fairly sure that something similar has been done before on one of the Project Runway shows.. It was either out of some kind of rope or licorice or something.

While I agree that Hester's was good, I think that my prediction that she would either make something insane or go safe came true, because it was a pretty dress, but fairly safe in my book. I agree that it being in the top three made sense, but I can see why it didn't win. The survival part of the challenge was lacking, and I felt chilly for the model for the bare shoulders and low neckline.

As for not covering the model, that one outfit where the model was almost naked from thighs down did not seem to be in the spirit of this challenge either. That poor woman would have died of exposure in no time, heh. Or alternatively in a warm climate, biting insects would have had a field day.

Edited to add: Looking at the recap photos on the Project Runway site... I kinda love the winning look. I couldn't really see all of those details on my television - even if it's got a pretty large screen. I think the color of the material made it hard to see maybe? That being said, I also really liked Venny's, Garo's (not practical, but that outfit was smokin', in my opinion) and Bishme's, though Bishme's was a bit short and could have included some kind of leg covering to compensate.

Edited April 5, 2019 by AwesomO4000

[Leia1021]

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out why Hester seems so familiar to me.  Finally realized, she makes me think of the character Nanny G. from Frasier.

[LavendarRose]

7 hours ago, Miracle Maxie said:

This is the first judges’ decision that really felt producer-driven to me. Neither design was good, but keeping Kovid seemed to be purely for the drama they’re hoping he’ll bring in subsequent episodes. 

[LavendarRose]

22 minutes ago, LavendarRose said:

8 hours ago, Miracle Maxie said:

This is the first judges’ decision that really felt producer-driven to me. Neither design was good, but keeping Kovid seemed to be purely for the drama they’re hoping he’ll bring in subsequent episodes. 

Sorry there is a disclaimer that says the judges decisions for winners and losers are made with the producers.  Also Lifetime  and another company whose name I can’t remember now, are involved in the decisions.  Totally explains to me how Kovid is still in.

[sunshine23]

IMO, this was the worst conventional materials challenge I remember seeing on PR. First of all, the whole outdoors thing in NY autumn was downright dumb and didn't add to the designs. Based on the quality of the designs sent down the runway it looks like this season's designers are hacks, but then again, was that due to their skills or the effect of being outdoors? Second, tarps and sleeping bags are material and the whole point of the unconventional challenge is to not use material. In the past, designers were called out for using too much fabric from umbrellas and now they're applauded for using basically nothing but fabric? They didn't even deconstruct the sleeping bags and use the stuffing.  If judging was based on how the designer turned non material into wearable clothing, Hester (I know, right?) or leaf dress guy (can't remember his name) should have won. Renee's outfit was absolutely hideous and showed no design skills whatsoever.  This season's editing is making it easier to guess who will be left standing on stage at the end. I was sorry to see Afa go, but the earlier discussion about his design not feeling right foreshadowed the end. Same with Renee.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I am not a fan of challenges like this. Camping and sewing outdoors with cold fingers has nothing to do with being a good designer. I don't need these extra Survivor elements. Just give them reasonable assignments and adequate time/money to create them. I'm a wuss because I'm from California so I'm used to warm weather, but I think it's bordering on unsafe to have the designers sewing when it's 40 degrees outside because your fingers are so cold. I also felt really bad for all the poor models who must have been freezing during the fittings and the day of the runway show. I hope that production had some heat lamps for them. On top of that, what the hell is survival chic?

Bishme singing songs about how he needed better food and warm clothes throughout the episode cracked me up!

I can't pretend I was shocked when Sebastian said that he'd never had s'mores before because I went to a retreat a few years ago where we had s'mores at the end of one night and there were a lot more people than I would have imagined who said they'd never had s'mores before. I was lucky enough to grow up in a beach city with firepits so s'mores were a regular thing but I know that not everyone lives in a place like that. Mr. EB went camping when he was a kid so that was how he was initially exposed, and I know other people who only had s'mores at summer camp.

I would have liked Hester's corsetish top better if the red bungee cord parts on each breast were more even. Maybe it was the camera angle, but they looked wonky and uneven to me. When the model turned around on the runway, the back of the corset looked uneven too (one side was noticeably higher). My other issue was that we have seen people do this exact technique before in previous unconventional material challenges. I liked the green overlay with netting on the top of the bodice, but I didn't like the leafy skirt. Brandon needs to calm down about the red socks.

I loved that Kovid traded his cow skin for Renee's yellow tarp. I appreciate when the designers are willing to help each other like that. I don't need to see bitchy cutthroat behavior, especially when they're doing the unconventional material challenge where they're already working with a limited amount of material.

Unfortunately, Kovid's outfit definitely looked like something made with unconventional materials. It was a mess. It looked like what kids would make if you gave them a sleeping bag and some carabiners. I did like the yellow pants though.

Renee was the one who took the survival part of the challenge the most literally, which is fine, but you can't just glue a bunch of camping supplies to a tarp poncho and call it a day.

Tessa was bossy in the team challenge, but I thought she was giving Afa really good advice about his original flower idea and staying true to who he is. The rope net skirt was a little too Ariel washed up on shore for my taste.

Lela's dress looked great from a distance. Up close, it was more obvious that it was made from unconventional materials, but I liked the silhouette and the colors.

Rakan's plaid and red sleeping bag jacket/skirt were so voluminous, but I did like the way he used the plaid and the red together. I didn't get a good look at the gauze top. Overall I didn't really like it, but it still ended up way better than I thought it would when he was showing it to Christian.

I liked the way Venny used the rings as trim on the front of his shiny green coat. Did his camouflage tarp come cut up like that or did he do that himself?

Garo's bungee cord and fishing lure dress was so colorful compared to everyone else's so that was a smart choice. I didn't love the design, but it definitely had some impact on the runway and the skirt had nice motion when she was walking.

While I understand Jamall feeling safe when he's wearing a puffy jacket, I was afraid that meant he was going to wrap a puffy sleeping bag around his model and call it a day. His outfit looked like exactly what it was - a sleeping bag. I also hated the shredded silver mylar blanket on top of the pants. When he said that it looked like something that someone would actually wear, I thought WHO?!

I give Tessa credit for weaving her own textile, but part of me was like uhhh, that model is walking the runway in her own underwear (I'm 99% sure that Tessa did not make those for her).

Sebastian's leaf dress had great color, but the main problem is that if you are just going to glue leaves to a dress, I will ALWAYS compare your design to Chloe Dao's and you will always lose.

Bishem's purple cropped jacket looked like it was made out of a sleeping bag but then I thought eh, at least it's keeping the poor model warm. I wasn't crazy about the green and purple cords he used on the bodice underneath. It definitely added some color, but it just looked a little sloppy and amateurish. I definitely appreciated the design he made on the skirt with the sticks and little rocks though. It was a simple idea but it added a design element that wasn't "I just took this fabric and used it like, you know, fabric."

Sonia's mylar dress had nice movement because the mylar was so light, but I didn't think it was enough. And that was before her poor model tripped. In Sonia's defense, the same thing happened to me once when I was wearing a floor length gown and it wasn't because the dress wasn't hemmed properly. It was because I was walking on uneven ground.

When the judges gave all their blankets to Afa's model, I thought dude, what about Hester's model? She's probably really cold too! Sonia's model had a mylar dress but her arms were completely bare so she could have used a blanket too.

It's only the fourth week of the season and Kovid has already been in the bottom twice. I know we don't necessarily need a three strikes and you're out rule (and I think that the person with the worst design should be sent home, regardless of how many times they've been in the top or the bottom), but at the same time if you are barely scraping by each week, and only because someone else (supposedly) did slightly worse than you did, maybe it's time for you to go home.

After hearing the judges' discussion, I understand why they didn't like Afa's design. Brandon seemed particularly annoyed that Afa didn't sew much of the outfit, which would be fair during a regular challenge, but during an unconventional materials challenge? Let's be real - these challenges have relied heavily on glue guns and craftiness since the beginning. And look at how many other designers didn't sew very much this week either. How much do you think Hester sewed to make that bodice? How much did Sebastian sew to make his leaf dress?

My issue is that if you put Afa's design and Kovid's design next to each other, Kovid's seems like much more of a mess, was poorly constructed, seemed to have no cohesive design, AND didn't fulfill the survival chic (whatever the hell that means) aspect of the challenge. For that reason, I would have kept Afa instead of Kovid.

Edited April 6, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo
Typos

[Aulty]

I really wanted them to go back and do the UCM Challenge from the first season again (although I know that it has been done in one of the later seasons or All Stars) or the one from Christian Siriano's season with the candy.

It was amusing seeing tentrr as a sponsor because it reminded me of how his female fanbase went bonkers for it after Benedict Cumberbatch invested in it a few years ago.

I don't mind if the stylist sticks around.

[agentpanda]

24 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When the judges gave all their blankets to Afa's model, I thought dude, what about Hester's model? She's probably really cold too! Sonia's model had a mylar dress but her arms were completely bare so she could have used a blanket too.

Exactly! They probably realized late but they should have covered models before/after the specific times when the design was being judged. Afa's model was uncovered for what, 3, critiques before they get to her and then they cover her up when they need to see her outfit?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, GaT said:

That disclaimer has been there from the beginning. This is from 2006 when the show was originally on Bravo, & this post on Reddit is from 2014 when the show was on Lifetime (there's a link in the post to a screenshot with the disclaimer). A lot of reality competition shows have similar disclaimers.

I wish I could like this post multiple times. I don't know why people are suddenly paying attention to the small print at the end of the credits and becoming conspiracy theorists because, as I said earlier in the season when this came up, that disclaimer has ALWAYS been there and lots of reality shows have similar disclaimers. Apparently no one bothered reading them until this season and that was enough to cause people to assume that the producers are interfering with the judges' oh so clear cut decisions.

7 hours ago, Arkay said:

I really liked Afa and I wish he could have stayed, rather than Kovid. I feel for Kovid, that he had a rough background, but he's too manic pixie dream boy, and I've never liked anything he's done,

7 hours ago, njbchlover said:

And, I was also hoping that Kovid would be eliminated over Afa.  Kovid and his endless stories about his upbringing are becoming tiresome - we get it - you had an extremely difficult childhood being so different from what your world expected.  I applaud that you have managed to rise above your challenges and are being youself, but we don't need to hear it every single week. 

6 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

I've been over Kovid since he made his first appearance really, he's always on 11 and that is tiring. Every week he gets 5 minutes to talk about his horrible past and cry. Done. With. It.

I know that many people have said they're tired of hearing about Kovid's past, but I think it's a bit reductive to say that he's always complaining about his terrible past. First of all, there's a difference between "my daddy never gave me a pony" and knowing that a fundamental part of who you are (being gay) is ILLEGAL in your country.

But secondly, if you want to talk about producer manipulation, most of the time what you hear in the talking head interviews are prompted by the producers asking the designers specific questions. Even if they start out with generic prompts like "tell us about your childhood," they will steer the conversation so that they can get whatever personal/dramatic/painful nuggets are buried in your past. If they manage to get all your deep dark personal secrets out of you in one session, they will cut up the interview and add tidbits to each episode because they don't want to blow their entire wad at once.

The producers have the advantage in this situation because they often get someone who is friendly and gentle to ask the questions so that the designers feel like they're just chatting with a friend. Add to that the fact that the designers are often exhausted and stressed so their guard isn't up.

I'm not saying we should feel sorry for the designers because they signed up to do the show. Nobody forced them to be here. But I doubt that Kovid went into his daily required interview sessions with the intention of telling sad stories about his past every single day. And maybe the producers are frontloading the season with his stories because he's going to be eliminated soon so they need to cram in all his sad stories while he's still on the show!

Heh and maybe the other contestants don't have any interesting backstories so they're milking Kovid's interviews for all they're worth.

10 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Okay, Show, I'm totally over the whole Marni... stylist... thing.  Honestly, I don't even look at the models except at the designs they're wearing.  Y'know, the thing the designers are making... that they're supposed to be judged on.  And this Christian/Marni visit seems particularly redundant.  She's not covering anything Christian isn't capable of covering.

Yeesh.  Styling...  I blame Gretchen.  She started it all.

P,S.  I know in the greater fashion world that styling has its place, but I strongly feel they've made too much of an issue of it for the design competition of PR.  Are they really gonna give a win to a lesser designer, just because their styling is better?  Oh, yeah.  Gretchen.  Asked and answered.

ITA - that was the year that the judges started tripping all over themselves to gush about how AMAZING Gretchen's styling was (as if that somehow made up for her fug clothes). Prior to that, they would occasionally say things like "I really love the hair" but not to the point where someone with a hideous design would win because they liked the model's makeup or shoes.

My issue is that as a designer, you can hire a stylist to help you make those decisions and that can help you with runway shows or photos of your clothes for your website, but if you are a great designer with terribly styling skills, people will still buy your clothes. It's not like being a designer means you have to also be a good stylist. The show puts far too much emphasis on it now and I hate it. This is a design competition, not a styling competition. The judges need to focus on the clothes, not the accessorizing.

[BusyOctober]

2 hours ago, Leia1021 said:

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out why Hester seems so familiar to me.  Finally realized, she makes me think of the character Nanny G. from Frasier.

Hester's style reminded me of something from the past too.

And Kovid can just shut it with the sad story.  You have not had to deal with any more emotional, psychological and possibly physical abuse than 99.9% of other LGBTQ adolecents born into cultures where "gay" is unacceptable. You are not the unique unicorn you think you are.

  And, I only hear "King Julien" from Madagascar every time Kovid speaks.

Edited April 5, 2019 by BusyOctober

[DEL901]

9 hours ago, TexasGal said:

I really thought Renee was on the bottom until they started gushing.  

I’m sad that Afa is gone but that look was really, really awful.

I really thought Renee was in the bottom too.  Her look was far too literal... seriously, hanging a coffee mug off it?  In previous seasons she'd have been reamed out for that.

Felt bad for Afa.  Thought the foil dress should have gone home.

[terrymct]

10 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Do not understand why Kovid was kept over Afa. Neither impressed in this challenge but, IMO, Kovid hasn’t demonstrated any real skill to date.

Kovid has been consistently in the bottom each week.   I think Kovid's sad back story has saved him.   This week, though, I think it was that Afa's design looked like something the waitresses would be wearing at a dinner theater production of Little Mermaid.  

Boy, most of the designers really didn't pay attention to their charge this week.  They just tried to design the same things they usually do but with the different materials.  I'm happy with Rene and Rakan being the top two, and especially happy that Rene won.  She did the actual challenge.   

Regarding Hester and the other designers who did the cord thing, is there an unwritten requirement that every unconventional challenge has to have one or more designers hot gluing cord or wire into a design on a bodice/corset?  Keep beating that dead horse, boys and girls.   Hester had a cute look, but it's essentially the same cute look that's done by someone for every unconventional challenge.  Wire or cord for a bodice, find something fabric-y to make a skirt.  Voila!  You're done.

[VintageJ]

7 hours ago, staphdude said:

I  would have kept Afa and sent both Sonia and Kovind home. Afa made a survival outfit for a specific environment. That is perfectly reasonable considering they never said it had to be a Northeast, late autumn ensemble.

I agree totally about Afa’s outfit.  It was survival for a warm climate.  I liked the rope necklace-type thing under her neck and at least it looked like a dress.  I would have sent Kovid home.  That shit was fugly.

And I didn’t like Renee’s outfit but apparently, (according to the judges) it had more design up close than I could see on the runway.  But since it was in the top, her outfit was the only one (that I can remember) that took the challenge literally and I think that is why she won.  The other people seemed to design for fashion and fashion only and not think too much about the survival part.  Or maybe I need to look at it again.  I may have missed some of their survival methods.  

And I would have hated to be a model for this challenge.  Even if I wasn’t cold (and I get cold easily), I would not want to wear a leaf dress scratching against my boobs and whatnot.  Are you sure all of the bugs are off the dress before I put it on for my fitting?  This thing is going against my skin and I don’t want bugs that crawled on the leaf on my skin!

And the guy in the top that made the puffy red outfit (still can’t remember the names), you should thank your lucky stars for Christian.  His advice to make parts of it more form fitting is what put you into the top.  Otherwise, it would have just been another puffy coat/sleeping bag.  

[rasalas]

Two things I learned in this episode:

1) If a judge likes an ethnic design, it's cultural inspiration. If she doesn't, it's cultural appropriation.

2) The theme doesn't matter, because almost everyone ignores it. 

[njbchlover]

4 hours ago, GaT said:

That disclaimer has been there from the beginning. This is from 2006 when the show was originally on Bravo, & this post on Reddit is from 2014 when the show was on Lifetime (there's a link in the post to a screenshot with the disclaimer). A lot of reality competition shows have similar disclaimers.

I've noticed that disclaimer on PR and other shows, as well.  It's kind of like Judge Judy or the other "court tv" shows that have a disclaimer at the end credits saying that the money awarded to the litigants is paid through a fund of the show.  Makes me laugh, because some of those litigants get so angry they have to pay what they owe, but they are not really paying.

[Pepper Mostly]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know that many people have said they're tired of hearing about Kovid's past, but I think it's a bit reductive to say that he's always complaining about his terrible past. First of all, there's a difference between "my daddy never gave me a pony" and knowing that a fundamental part of who you are (being gay) is ILLEGAL in your country.

But secondly, if you want to talk about producer manipulation, most of the time what you hear in the talking head interviews are prompted by the producers asking the designers specific questions. Even if they start out with generic prompts like "tell us about your childhood," they will steer the conversation so that they can get whatever personal/dramatic/painful nuggets are buried in your past. If they manage to get all your deep dark personal secrets out of you in one session, they will cut up the interview and add tidbits to each episode because they don't want to blow their entire wad at once.

The producers have the advantage in this situation because they often get someone who is friendly and gentle to ask the questions so that the designers feel like they're just chatting with a friend. Add to that the fact that the designers are often exhausted and stressed so their guard isn't up.

I'm not saying we should feel sorry for the designers because they signed up to do the show. Nobody forced them to be here. But I doubt that Kovid went into his daily required interview sessions with the intention of telling sad stories about his past every single day. And maybe the producers are frontloading the season with his stories because he's going to be eliminated soon so they need to cram in all his sad stories while he's still on the show!

Thank you for saying this. Kovid can hardly be faulted for the decisions made by the production team. They have, for whatever reason, chosen to focus on Kovid's backstory. It is growing a tad wearing. And I say that as one of Kovid's few remaining fans. I just love his "I'm a winsome sprite" persona, it makes me smile. I'd like to drink tea with him and let him show me his beautiful world, where everything is a source of joy. I'm an old grouch. He does me good. And I'm also an exuberant, expressive person, with big gestures and a loud laugh and strong opinions. Some people are just like that. Its not a "put on" or phony. It would be a dull world indeed if everyone was quiet and soft spoken and measured.

1 hour ago, terrymct said:

Kovid has been consistently in the bottom each week.   I think Kovid's sad back story has saved him.   This week, though, I think it was that Afa's design looked like something the waitresses would be wearing at a dinner theater production of Little Mermaid. 

Kovid was safe week one, bottom three week 2, top three last week, and bottom 3 this week.

I liked Afa a lot and I'm so sorry to see him go. I still think Tess is one to watch. She's stealth good. I suspected Hester would find her feet and start doing well, I'm glad to see her gaining confidence. I'm glad Sonia was saved. I don't feel like we're seeing enough of the middle of the pack crowd yet. Someone needs to bust loose.

[njbchlover]

5 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I was unable to find it, but I'm fairly sure that something similar has been done before on one of the Project Runway shows.. It was either out of some kind of rope or licorice or something.

While I agree that Hester's was good, I think that my prediction that she would either make something insane or go safe came true, because it was a pretty dress, but fairly safe in my book. I agree that it being in the top three made sense, but I can see why it didn't win. The survival part of the challenge was lacking, and I felt chilly for the model for the bare shoulders and low neckline.

As for not covering the model, that one outfit where the model was almost naked from thighs down did not seem to be in the spirit of this challenge either. That poor woman would have died of exposure in no time, heh. Or alternatively in a warm climate, biting insects would have had a field day.

Edited to add: Looking at the recap photos on the Project Runway site... I kinda love the winning look. I couldn't really see all of those details on my television - even if it's got a pretty large screen. I think the color of the material made it hard to see maybe? That being said, I also really liked Venny's, Garo's (not practical, but that outfit was smokin', in my opinion) and Bishme's, though Bishme's was a bit short and could have included some kind of leg covering to compensate.

It was another unconventional challenge (Hershey Store in Times Square) - actually, Christian Siriano's season on PR (Season 4), and it was designed by Jillian, who used Twizzlers to create that same swirly effect on her bustier.

[njbchlover]

2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

  And, I only hear "King Julien" from Madagascar every time Kovid speaks.

OMG!!  You're right!  And, Kovid kind of reminds me of the animation image, as well!  For the record, he is adorable, though!  

[Pop Tart]

1 hour ago, njbchlover said:

Makes me laugh, because some of those litigants get so angry they have to pay what they owe, but they are not really paying.

The way I understood it, and I'm not sure I fully understand it, is that they get paid $5000 each for the appearance and if there's no judgement then they both walk away with $5000. But if someone wins an award from JJ then they take the money from the loser's pot. So if I'm a plaintiff and I'm suing for $2000 and I win, then I walk away with my $5000, but the loser only gets $3000. I think that's why they still get angry. If they lose then they may potentially walk away with no money for the appearance. They are still better off than in a real court because the payment to the winner is not coming out of their pocket, but they aren't earning anything either.

But back to PR - I agree about Kovid's stories getting old but I also understand how all the producer driven interviews work. They're crafting story after the fact so they can always shape the interviews to get the answers and dialogue they want in order for the storylines to go the way they've written them. 

I do think Kovid's look was the worst, but if I go by the rules of the challenge (though the judges didn't totally seem to be doing so), his was certainly more of a survival outfit for that climate than Afa's was. So I guess that matters? 🤔

[Gummo]

I always enjoy the UCM challenge but forcing the designers to live and work in the woods in 40 degree weather for 3 days? Complete and utter bullshit that had nothing to do with design and took away from the fun of this episode. If they're looking to restore the class & luster of the PR franchise, this episode was a giant step backwards into arbitrary reality game show gimmickry.

That said, I'm in the minority in that I thought Renee's look was clever, an almost tongue-in-cheek take on 'survivalist glam' which nonetheless wouldn't have won if her model hadn't looked so damn fierce while wearing it. IMO, her model won the week for her.

Had no problem with the other 2 winners but a LOT of problems with the bottom 3:

1. Sonia should be gone. Her dress unraveled on the runway and almost took out her model, fer crissakes. There shouldn't be any excuse for that.

2. Kovid's designs make Hester's look conservative & mainstream by comparison. This is NOT a compliment. I like him personally and don't blame him for the show dragging his sob story out for us in every confessional, but if you're going to use lots and lots of bright color, you need a lot more taste & sense than he's shown so far. 

3. Afa was so robbed! I thought his design was adorable and it fulfilled the requirements of the challenge, but on his terms. There are other climates in the world and there was nothing in their brief that said they had to design for a North American northeast fall/winter. 

[dleighg]

12 hours ago, Fellaway said:

I liked Renee's, but it read costume to me, like something an actress would wear in a post-apocalyptic movie, rather than fashion, and since I thought fashion was the be-all to end-all on this show, I guess I'm not sure what the criteria were for this challenge.

Wasn't "chic" or "high fashion" part of the description of what they were supposed to make? 

11 hours ago, njbchlover said:

And, I was also hoping that Kovid would be eliminated over Afa.  Kovid and his endless stories about his upbringing are becoming tiresome - we get it - you had an extremely difficult childhood being so different from what your world expected.  I applaud that you have managed to rise above your challenges and are being youself, but we don't need to hear it every single week.

yeah, I am really over his talking heads. WE GET IT.

[Captain Asshat]

5 hours ago, LavendarRose said:

13 hours ago, Miracle Maxie said:

This is the first judges’ decision that really felt producer-driven to me. Neither design was good, but keeping Kovid seemed to be purely for the drama they’re hoping he’ll bring in subsequent episodes. 

I think the only reason they kept Kovid is because his model wasn't freezing and he managed to win a challenge in the past. Otherwise, the "You made sleeves out of sleeping mats and think this garment is functional" aspect of his design should have sent him home. With those sleeves, could the model even bend her arms? 

[sempervivum]

2 hours ago, rasalas said:

1) If a judge likes an ethnic design, it's cultural inspiration. If she doesn't, it's cultural appropriation.

Elaine W. better not ever wear anything referencing dirndl skirts or lederhosen around me or there WILL BE WORDS. That comment to Hester sounded so patronizing. Without cultural and historical referents, there is no art, fashion or music (JMO, of course).

How were the contestants showering? (maybe they just...weren't?) Also, they must have brought in generators to run the sewing machines, which seems ridiculous.

That has to be a toupee or something on Christian, right? It's usually a clue when there is no sign of a part/scalp, and the top of his head looks like a hair cap.

[Captain Asshat]

Nothing to see here. Double post.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Captain Asshat

[dleighg]

10 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

I think the rain was fake. It looked it came from a couple of hoses off camera to create fake weather drama.

I totally agree. The way it was pouring directly on top of the tent, but still looked rather bright in the background..... it doesn't work like that. If it's pouring that hard, the trees wouldn't look pretty and yellow.

[LennieBriscoe]

I loved Wacky Hester's outfit! 

And I would have placed the winner in the Bottom 3! 

With Lovable Lilting Kovid ** aufed! His look was a total mess! 

The task, though,  was also a total mess. It used to be that the "Unconventional Materials" Challenge was simply that,  and no more. Why add the "survival" element? 

And back in the day designers got dinged for using material AS material. 

**Don't ask Kovid to help tidy your house Marie Kondo-style---everything gives him joy! 

Edited April 5, 2019 by LennieBriscoe

[dleighg]

11 hours ago, HappyDancex2 said:

Upon the rewatch, Kovid's design is even more hideous the second time around.   The bungee cords that are hanging out of the sleeves that he is SO proud of look like when they rip the arms off a robot in a movie and the wires are hanging out before the robot's chip decelerates and it dies.  

you nailed it!

[carrps]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I wish I could like this post multiple times. I don't know why people are suddenly paying attention to the small print at the end of the credits and becoming conspiracy theorists because, as I said earlier in the season when this came up, that disclaimer has ALWAYS been there and lots of reality shows have similar disclaimers. Apparently no one bothered reading them until this season and that was enough to cause people to assume that the producers are interfering with the judges' oh so clear cut decisions.

Yes, I can remember discussing this waaaaaay back on TWoP.  Also, thumbs up on the interviewing techniques and editing of those. THIS is where the real producer manipulation is.

[meggonzo]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

After hearing the judges' discussion, I understand why they didn't like Afa's design. Brandon seemed particularly annoyed that Afa didn't sew much of the outfit, which would be fair during a regular challenge, but during an unconventional materials challenge? Let's be real - these challenges have relied heavily on glue guns and craftiness since the beginning. And look at how many other designers didn't sew very much this week either. How much do you think Hester sewed to make that bodice? How much did Sebastian sew to make his leaf dress?

5 hours ago, sunshine23 said:

MO, this was the worst conventional materials challenge I remember seeing on PR. First of all, the whole outdoors thing in NY autumn was downright dumb and didn't add to the designs. Based on the quality of the designs sent down the runway it looks like this season's designers are hacks, but then again, was that due to their skills or the effect of being outdoors? Second, tarps and sleeping bags are material and the whole point of the unconventional challenge is to not use material. In the past, designers were called out for using too much fabric from umbrellas and now they're applauded for using basically nothing but fabric? They didn't even deconstruct the sleeping bags and use the stuffing.  If judging was based on how the designer turned non material into wearable clothing, Hester (I know, right?) or leaf dress guy (can't remember his name) should have won. Renee's outfit was absolutely hideous and showed no design skills whatsoever.  This season's editing is making it easier to guess who will be left standing on stage at the end. I was sorry to see Afa go, but the earlier discussion about his design not feeling right foreshadowed the end. Same with Renee.

11 hours ago, violet and green said:

Bizarre. I was certain from all the airtime and the would-usually-be-called-out in an unconventional materials challenge use of a tarp, being too like just using some cloth material, and then the completely literal interpretation of the challenge and the lack of style, Renee would be if not going home, on the bottom. It was so literal and clunky.

I guess I missed the survival aspect of this challenge, because I was confused as to who was in the top/bottom before the interviewing.  I thought too many used too much fabric-like materials.  In past seasons, I think Sebastian and Garo would have been in the top.  I also thought Kovid was the clear loser, especially after the look on Nina's face when his model walked the runway.  It just looked like he draped the fabric-like materials on the model, wrapped it in a bungee cord and called it a day.  At least the other designers that used fabric made it look like an actual garment.

[JunebugWA]

Kovid is extremely "extra". I need him gone. I actually just ff'd whenever he is on the screen. 

[Delete]

Did the judges smoke some wacky weed before the show? I thought Renee and Kovid designs were the bottom two. 

Gonna miss Afa. What a sweet man. However, I think he lost  out over Kovid because he didn't do a cold weather survival look. I felt badly for his model who looked like she was suffering from hypothermia. Yet, he didn't deserve the boot.  Sonia's jiffy pop dress was more of a disaster, and failed the runway walk. 

IMO, Hester was the top look. Ya. I know right? Colour me surprised with sunshine, rainbow and ponies, but her look was awesome.

I didn't  understand Elaine's cultural appropriation comment with regards to the neck piece. IMO,  It was tastefully done, and did not make it look like a African tribal costume. There was nothing offensive about it, and found it to be a very PC thing to say. I'm not feeling that judge anyway.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Barbara Please

[dleighg]

3 minutes ago, Barbara Please said:

I didn't  understand Elaine's cultural appropriation comment with regards to the neck piece. IMO,  It was tastefully done, and did not make it look like a African tribal costume. There was nothing offensive about it, and found it to be a very PC thing to say.

yeah, so the neck thing is ok, as long as...... what? What's the line not to cross? Oh, we'll let you know when you cross it. I definitely got the reference to the neck-stretching rings, and thought it looked kind of cool. 

[Samwise979]

Maybe I took the challenge too literally but I thought it was supposed to be fashionable outerwear that you could, you know, actually wear outdoors??

[Gloriosa]

Two things:

1.  They are KILLING me with this makeup.

2.  Karlie's cape looked like it had big cloth diapers on the sleeves.

[gibasi]

I agree with everyone else who thought Afa was unfairly penalized for not making cold weather survival wear. It was not specified in the challenge and since Kovid's was a hot mess he should have been sent home. Most of the other models were cold too. Even the designers and judges were cold! I was underwhelmed by the challenge and the way it was carried out.

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, Barbara Please said:

I didn't  understand Elaine's cultural appropriation comment with regards to the neck piece. IMO,  It was tastefully done, and did not make it look like a African tribal costume. There was nothing offensive about it, and found it to be a very PC thing to say. I'm not feeling that judge anyway.

Hester's outfit was practically a direct copy of a John Galliano collection from several years back that was criticized for it's appropriation of African tribal CLOTHING, not COSTUMES.  Galliano designs were light years ahead of Little Miss Sunshine.  Considering that Becky attended the same design school Galliano did, she was probably very familiar with his work. 

I think the judge was totally within her rights to bring up the issue of cultural appropriation.  Other people's cultures don't just serve as fodder to spark so-called 'first world' people's imaginations.  Personally, I think the judge as almost as big an airhead as Becky Sunshine so they're on the same page.

[SailorGirl]

15 hours ago, roctavia said:

Uh oh... I hope this is a fluke and not the judging going off the rails... I’m mostly ok with their top looks but definitively would have sent Kovid home for his mess.

imI also don’t get why they were giving Afa such a hard time about his model being cold. Hester’s look covered about the same amount of skin and there was a whole outfit that was just netting...   just because that specific model was cold shouldn’t have led to his aufing... not that it was a great outfit, but it had a story and some nice details behind it.

I'm still loving Kovid's personality but I too think he should have gone home.

If part of the reason Afa went home is because his model was cold, then that's not a fair consideration. They said survival, but I don't recall them specifying the climate or conditions of survival. Did they specify it had to be wilderness/camping survival?

Afa's survival conditions were on a boat -- which is where you need lines (ropes), fishing lures, etc. She wouldn't have been cold in the conditions he designed the dress for. . . . 

EDIT: Should have read the full thread -- many others commented on this before me . . .:-D 

Edited April 5, 2019 by SailorGirl

[SailorGirl]

13 hours ago, HappyDancex2 said:

Upon the rewatch, Kovid's design is even more hideous the second time around.   The bungee cords that are hanging out of the sleeves that he is SO proud of look like when they rip the arms off a robot in a movie and the wires are hanging out before the robot's chip decelerates and it dies.  

OMG -- THANK YOU! I knew they reminded me of something but I couldn't figure out what -- that's EXACTLY IT!! 😄

[Ilovepie]

Well, boo. This is the first time this season I had a problem with the judging. Renee's model looked like a bag lady. Nothing fashionable there whatsoever. And I am bummed Afa was sent home. I think Kovid's pants saved him because that (straight)jacket was seriously atrocious.

My favorite's were Venny, Hester and Sebastian.

And since when is using sleeping bags and tarps considered "unconventional"???? Back in the day, that would have landed you in the bottom for sure for playing it safe and using something that functions like material!

Last thing: How the hell is Jamall getting a pass? He throws a blanket or comforter or sleeping bag on his model EVERY.SINGLE.WEEK. And it is crap. This week, his model looked insane with the gold leaf on her lips - where the hell was Marni then? He's got to go soon........

Let's all sing together: "I need gloves, I need heat....."

[AntAnn]

1 hour ago, Barbara Please said:

Sonia's jiffy pop dress was more of a disaster, and failed the runway walk. 

This^^^ perfect description 🤣 

[Delete]

58 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Hester's outfit was practically a direct copy of a John Galliano collection from several years back that was criticized for it's appropriation of African tribal CLOTHING, not COSTUMES.  Galliano designs were light years ahead of Little Miss Sunshine.  Considering that Becky attended the same design school Galliano did, she was probably very familiar with his work. 

I think the judge was totally within her rights to bring up the issue of cultural appropriation.  Other people's cultures don't just serve as fodder to spark so-called 'first world' people's imaginations.  Personally, I think the judge as almost as big an airhead as Becky Sunshine so they're on the same page.

I wasn't aware of it being a John Galliano copy, but thanks for the comment. I don't know. I'm still find it incredibly PC. Fashion is suppose to be fun. We all take inspiration from other cultures. I know that I do. Anyhow,  I personally don't have a problem with it, but understand if some do.

On another note, they better not  invite Cher as a guest judge.  

[njbchlover]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I give Tessa credit for weaving her own textile, but part of me was like uhhh, that model is walking the runway in her own underwear (I'm 99% sure that Tessa did not make those for her).

When the judges gave all their blankets to Afa's model, I thought dude, what about Hester's model? She's probably really cold too! Sonia's model had a mylar dress but her arms were completely bare so she could have used a blanket too.

I guess they weren't worried about Tessa' model, because Tessa was safe (so her model didn't have to stand out in the cold for too long), but I thought the same as you.  I didn't get much of a survival theme from Tessa's design, either.

It was visibly noticeable that some of the models were shivering, but don't models have to be able to be ready for this?  Maybe these models are only runway models and not print models?  I've seen photo shoots of models wearing bathing suits in the snow, or they are shooting bathing suit layouts in cold ocean water.  

It's not that I didn't feel badly for the models, and actually felt a little bit of a virtual chill watching them, but I think that this is part of a model's job description.

[GoldaVining]

Kovid's outfit makes his model look like a corpse that has been bound with chains in a sleeping bag, dumped in the woods, and found by somebody walking their dog.

Edited April 5, 2019 by GoldaVining
clarity

[njbchlover]

4 hours ago, Captain Asshat said:

I think the only reason they kept Kovid is because his model wasn't freezing and he managed to win a challenge in the past. Otherwise, the "You made sleeves out of sleeping mats and think this garment is functional" aspect of his design should have sent him home. With those sleeves, could the model even bend her arms? 

Brandon's description of Kovid's design was correct - Scarecrow meets Tinman from the Wizard of Oz.  He reminded me of Michael Kors with that comment! 

It looked, to me, like Kovid did not quite understand Brandon's critique - I guess it's possible he's never seen the movie.

[LennieBriscoe]

OF COURSE fashion designers use other cultures as inspirations! Are artists (and the rest of us) to be confined by personal heritage? 

Fine art,  fashion,  cuisine,  architecture, music---all the arts have so "appropriated" for centuries. 

E.g.,  Gucci and China. Scroll down to the First Lady. 

https://fashionhistory.fitnyc.edu/gucci-strikes-red/

Edited April 5, 2019 by LennieBriscoe

[mightysparrow]

1 minute ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Cultural appropriation, schmultural appropriation!

OF COURSE fashion designers use other cultures as inspirations! 

Fine art,  fashion,  cuisine,  architecture, music---all the arts have so done for centuries. 

White folks have been making money off the backs of non-White folks for centuries, which is one of the perks of privilege. I guess one of the other perks is to mock people who might object to their cultures being treated as commodities.

But now those non-White folks are speaking out I don't think it's too much of an affront if somebody decides to check a two-bit designer on a reality show.

[GoldaVining]

I would be interested in seeing a breakdown of participant screen time. I feel like Kovid has had more screen time than everybody else combined. Maybe it just feels that way, I need to see the numbers.

[cinsays]

Just adding my agreement that Hester should have won - not my favorite person, but her outfit was nicely made and really lovely.

That thing that Renee came up with looked like a garbage bag with camping supplies clipped to a belt.  Ugly.

And, didn't someone, maybe Christian, not sure, criticize one of the contestant's design as too literal and then the winning outfit was exactly that.

Loved Sebastian's and Venny's and I could have swarn there was one outfit that had a lovely train of green leaves, but don't recall seeing it on the runway or who the designer was.

[babs j.]

I don't know which designer made the dress with the silver foil but my first thought was Jiffy Pop and then I wondered if Jiffy Pop still exists - popcorn yum.

[slaterain]

I agree with most everyone's comments.  I was sad to see Afa go because I wanted to see more from him. Kovid has had mixed reviews so far and I totally agree that the producer's need to cut it out with his background - we got it. now let him stand and continue on by the strength of his designs. 

I thought for sure Renee's was a bottom look so was shocked when it was a top. It does look like there were more details in how it was actually put together that just didn't translate on screen. I did crack up when I heard a judge reference Troop Beverly Hills - still one of my fav 80s movies!