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S38.E07: There’s Always a Twist

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13 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Evil part of me still wants a scenario where Reem winds up winning. It's just that she's an older woman, and Probst would hate that. And she was the first voted out, so him justifying her getting a chance on Day 39 would be tougher than making a case for Lillian in S7.

Maybe. But I just have this awful feeling that he would then turn the whole thing around and proclaim to everyone how incredible it was that the first player voted out of the game did this unbelievable job of fighting all the odds and pulling off the most amazing comeback of all time, beating all the favored players and truly embodying the real spirit of the show by putting together the greatest Survivor victory ever!! And then announcing that they're going to do another Edge of Extinction season.

Well, in the words of Fargo's Sheriff Margie Gunderson, "I'm think I'm gonna barf."

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There was a scene where Rick was talking to someone (I don't remember who) and he said his own tribe voted for him. Well, duh, genius, that is what you do when your tribe loses an immunity challenge, you go to tribal to VOTE someone out. You just got more votes than who you voted for. That's how you play the game.

Edited by TVFan1
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The only thing that will save this season is if there's an EOE challenge every week. Every week someone comes back in and every week someone gets voted out. There are always 13 people in the game and three people on the jury. Just for fun, they bring in Lillian Morris for a few weeks. At some point, it dawns on these nitwits that the game never ends. One by one they raise the mast. On day 432, Reem is the last person left and wins the title of Sole Survivor.

15 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm also curious who David and Rick voted for tonight, because David seemed surprised to see Joe's name.  Did Julie tell Rick she wasn't telling him but that it just wasn't him?  Again, not sure that's a way to gain trust.  He goes with people who want him out, or risk people who won't tell him what they're planning.  

Julie told Rick that they weren't voting for him but that she wouldn't tell him who to vote for until just before TC and then he was supposed to tell David. Apparently, she told him to vote for Wentworth -- and that's who she originally wanted out -- but I don't know why she didn't tell him Joe since that's who Kama had settled on. The votes ending up being

Wentworth -- by David and Rick
David -- by Wentworth, Lauren, and Wardog
Rick -- by Joe and Aurora
Joe -- by Eric, Gavin, Julie, Julia, Ron, Victoria

So, Joe, Aurora, Wentworth, Lauren, and Wardog thought they were splitting votes between David and Rick. David and Rick thought they were joining all of Kama to vote for Wentworth. The Kama6 were the only ones who really knew what was going on.

14 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Does anyone understand this split immunity idol? What's the purpose of having someone else hold onto it? Does the other person get to share in immunity next week? Totally nonsensical.

The idol had no immunity power this week. Rick had to give half to someone else and then they both had to survive last night's TC, at which point, the idol would become live and could be used by one person.

It was potentially a good twist but Rick misplayed it. Instead of giving half to David who's already his ally, he should have given it to someone as a way to form a new alliance. Definitely tell David what he's doing, but then give the half to someone who's in a position to save him and offer to either give it them outright once it activates or promise to use if for them later if needed.  Maybe he could even stipulate that David also has to survive that first TC as well, otherwise the deal is off.

It ended up working out okay for Rick because he didn't get voted out and he now has an idol to use, but he didn't improve his position in terms of getting into the numbers. So it wasn't a fatal error, but he could have played it a lot better.

14 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

The only thing I can despise about him is how great his hair looks.  In real life, I don't think it's looking that great anymore, but being on an island with no access to showers or conditioner, and it looks better than mine.  Mine doesn't take long to frizz up in humidity.

Joe is a contender, but in hair as well as the game, Sandra Diaz is still The Queen. 39 days on the island and her curls were smooth and shiny. If it were me, I'd look like the low-flow showerhead episode of Seinfeld after one day.

Edited by fishcakes
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26 minutes ago, TVFan1 said:

There was scene where Rick was talking to someone (I don't remember who) and he said his own tribe voted for him. Well, duh, genius, that is what you do when your tribe loses an immunity challenge, you go to tribal to VOTE someone out. You just got more votes than who you voted for. That's how you play the game.

Of course it is obvious but it makes sense for Ron, and others from Kama, to try and exploit any rift that came from being voted out. So yes, someone had to be voted out but they choose Rick and not Kelly or David, who would have been targets for Kama. Ron is another person who sees himself as a strategic mastermind, which is debatable, but I don't begrudge Ron for trying to bring Ron to the Kama alliance. Kama wanted to vote out Joe, which would cost them a member, why not bring in Rick? And Rick is going to hold a bit of a grudge because he was voted out.

It is no different then what Julie was doing, except that Julie backed up her statements by empathizing with Rick's experience on EoE and telling Rick that Kelly was targetting Rick. So Julie wins in this particular game play scenario.

Ron, as annoying as he is, is playing an ok game. He was smart to let Julia know he was going off with Joe so Julia could search Joe's bag. He played along with Joe's alliance idea. And Ron was smart in identifying that Joe was a part of the reason they were winning and arguing that Joe needed to be kept around until the merge. Ron is letting his tribes early domination go to his head and is gonna be in trouble. He thiks very highly of himself.

Victoria is playing a good game. I don't have too many issues with her. She had the one brain dead moment with Ron on the beach but outside of that, Victoria has been solid. She helped pull off the perfect blindside of Aubry at tribal and was smart in giving up Wendy. There was no reason to risk rocks to save a Manu who was unpredictable. I think Victoria has a good grasp on the game.

I have no idea rally what Gavin, Eric, Aurora, or Julia are doing. Gavin and Eric have had a bit more air time but they seem to be more supporting Victoria then anything.

I am hoping that Kama implodes spectacularly because it will make for more interesting TV. No one on Manu is playing a good game. 

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1 hour ago, threebluestars said:

I think a good "twist" would be a throw back season. You get no idols. No advantages. No islands. Nothing. Just rice and a machete. That's all. Like the early seasons.

It could work (although the early seasons were not rice and a machete but raincoats, boxes of tools, canned goods, etc) but I think it's more likely that would be a super boring Pagonging -- that's why they invented the idols and things.  But I certainly think they don't need any more twists than the regular, plain old idol, the only really effective bit they've added since the beginning.

The real twist they should be focusing on is a good cast.  This season I don't even think they did a bad job with casting new people necessarily, they're just eaten alive by extremely tedious EDGE OF EXTINCTION shenanigans and returning players who shouldn't have returned.  The fact that Aubry had the most confessionals at Kama when she did nothing and was completely ineffective (as she always has been without her living, perpetual extra vote advantage in the form of old man Joe) is totally absurd.

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4 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Julie told Rick that they weren't voting for him but that she wouldn't tell him who to vote for until just before TC and then he was supposed to tell David. Apparently, she told him to vote for Wentworth -- and that's who she originally wanted out -- but I don't know why she didn't tell him Joe since that's who Kama had settled on. The votes ending up being

Wentworth -- by David and Rick
David -- by Wentworth, Lauren, and Wardog
Rick -- by Joe and Aurora
Joe -- by Eric, Gavin, Julie, Julia, Ron, Victoria

So, Joe, Aurora, Wentworth, Lauren, and Wardog thought they were splitting votes between David and Rick. David and Rick thought they were joining all of Kama to vote for Wentworth. The Kama6 were the only ones who really knew what was going on.

The idol had no immunity power this week. Rick had to give half to someone else and then they both had to survive last night's TC, at which point, the idol would become live and could be used by one person.

It was potentially a good twist but Rick misplayed it. Instead of giving half to David who's already his ally, he should have given it to someone as a way to form a new alliance. Definitely tell David what he's doing, but then give the half to someone who's in a position to save him and offer to either give it them outright once it activates or promise to use if for them later if needed.  Maybe he could even stipulate that David also has to survive that first TC as well, otherwise the deal is off.

It ended up working out okay for Rick because he didn't get voted out and he now has an idol to use, but he didn't improve his position in terms of getting into the numbers. So it wasn't a fatal error, but he could have played it a lot better.

I think that it was a smart play by Julie. She was able to see that Rick and David where working with her because of how they voted. Julie should be able to patch things over easily enough if she is smart. "We didn't know if there were idols or if we could trust you. We have been working together and are just getting to know you. We can see that we can trust you because you voted for Kelly." Additionally, it creates a rift between David and Rick and Kelly, Dan and Lauren because of how they voted.

I am not so sure that Rick misplayed the idol. He thought he was working with Kama and that Kama was not going to vote for him. Julie came off sincere in their conversation and then Victoria piped up in Tribal about how evil it would be to send Rick back to EoE. Rick probably had a good feeling that he was not Kama's target. But he is not going to be high in the Kama food chain so why give away that he has an idol by telling one of the Kama folks? He gives it to David, so David has a good reason to vote the way Rick wants him to vote. David was already an ally for Rick but now the two are closer because they are in a crappy position with the ability to change that a bit because of an idol. Rick had no reason to work with Lauren, Kelly or Dan because they had voted him out before (yes, it is a part of the game but if they voted him out once they will vote him out again, he is the low person in that alliance) and he knew that they were planning on voting for him again. David is about the only person that it makes sense to share the idol with.

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16 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

The only thing that will save this season is if there's an EOE challenge every week. Every week someone comes back in and every week someone gets voted out. There are always 13 people in the game and three people on the jury. [snip] At some point, it dawns on these nitwits that the game never ends.

Isn't this a novel by Kafka?  That'll be next season - Survivor: Kafka Edition.

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7 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I guess I must have been out of the room when two people surrendered, WTF? 

Wendy is the nutcase who released the chickens, & Keith was the black guy on Extinction island (the 2nd person there). All we saw was them leaving the island in a boat, no explanation.

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2 minutes ago, GaT said:

Wendy is the nutcase who released the chickens, & Keith was the black guy on Extinction island (the 2nd person there). All we saw was them leaving the island in a boat, no explanation.

no wonder I fast forwarded past it.

I read the link to the Wendy interview where she claims she didn't quit. The only thing worse than a quitter may just be someone who quits but claimed they didn't. Unless your story is that production raised the mast for you without your permission and dragged you off, you quit. It's ok to quit and a reasonable call but own it, please.

The other thing that bugged me was Keith giving the disadvantage to Chris. From a game play situation, it made perfect sense. Good move. However, it came across (editing?) as just another part of the Reem/Keith hatred of Chris thing that made no sense. So, if Keith did it because Chris was likely to win--good move. If it was out of bitterness, than what an idiot. At least now, it seems like Reem is past the bitterness stage with Chris. The game involves voting people off. Deal with it.

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59 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

It was potentially a good twist but Rick misplayed it. Instead of giving half to David who's already his ally, he should have given it to someone as a way to form a new alliance. 

Respectfully disagree; the risk inherent in that plan far outweighs the potential benefit.  Far too easy for whoever Rick approached to say “Suuurrrre” to whatever plan Rick proposed - then run back to their core alliance, show them the half-idol and explain it, and say, “Hey guys - Rick is going to have an immunity idol tomorrow unless we vote him out RIGHT NOW....”

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Who is the leader of the "Kama 6"?  Please don't say it's Ron.  I think Ron probably thinks it is Ron.  Victoria probably thinks it is Victoria.  I'm disappointed in the play of Eric... he seems like based on his body and strength in challenges that he should be the stereotypical alpha male that Jeffy has wet dreams about.  But he acts more like a beta male.

Is this the first episode where we heard about the "Kama 6"?  I know none of them really warmed up to the idea of Joe, but what happened to this Aurora person where she ended up on the outs with him?  I guess since we haven't really seen her before, there's really no context for why or how she has been ostracised.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Can someone explain what the hell Wentworth ever did to become such a "fan favorite" she's been back twice? I never saw her original season, that I can recall - was there some memorable gameplay on her part I'm unaware of? She just seems kind of bitter and useless to me. I don't get why she keeps coming back. 

I've been trying to figure this out since her last appearance.  I think she only got asked back the first time because her father was so hateful and they felt sorry for her and wanted her to play on her own.  Then I guess in that second appearance she found the idol at the competition and used it successfully, and ever since then, the legend was born in her own mind.  Based on what we've seen from her this season, she is so overrated.  Granted, she's been on the losing tribe the whole time, but still.   Now that they merged, it would have been the perfect opportunity to try and do something in the game.  But instead she did pretty much nothing.  She turned on David, one of their own.  She could have worked with David and Rick and maybe try to get Joe over since he too is a returning player with a big target on his back.  Nothing.  She's not as great as she thinks she is.

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

Why didn't Rick/Devins try to use his split idol to get in good with someone on the Kama side, rather than with his old buddy David?  He was a likely boot out - why not go to Joe or Aurora or Julie and make a new friend?

I didn't understand this either.  He could have used it a lot more strategically.  Find someone he feels comfortable with, probably Joe, and tell them.  Then that person is more invested in protecting Rick and getting him to the next round.  And he made a new alliance.  I don't get why Rick didn't use this to get someone on his side to have them sway the vote away from Rick.  Dumb.

Speaking of dumb, Joe is probably one of the worst of the players who have returned multiple times.  His strategic game is as abysmal as ever.  I don't think he's particularly bright and he makes zero effort to try and work the vote.  He just thinks he needs to win immunity and hope people don't vote for him.  There's a particular arrogance in the way he said at tribal that he was concerned because "I'm one of the strongest players".  If he means in challenges, well yes.  But mentally, there isn't a lot going on upstairs.

That challenge was tailor made for Joe as it involved both balance and arm strength.  I don't think we've seen him doing yoga at all this season, not sure if it's because they don't want to emphasise that many of these "balance on one foot or with arm over head" types of challenges are right up his alley.

8 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

The other thing that bugged me was Keith giving the disadvantage to Chris. From a game play situation, it made perfect sense. Good move. However, it came across (editing?) as just another part of the Reem/Keith hatred of Chris thing that made no sense. So, if Keith did it because Chris was likely to win--good move. If it was out of bitterness, than what an idiot. At least now, it seems like Reem is past the bitterness stage with Chris. The game involves voting people off. Deal with it.

I agree that Chris was the strongest competitor physically and it would have made sense to penalise him.  But Keith could have said that.  "He got the advantage so I have to try and counter that by giving him the disadvantage.  Sorry, someone has to get it, nothing personal."  Instead, because it's Keith, to me it did come across as "well you voted me out, so now I'm going to try and prevent you from winning".  Good riddance Keith.

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4 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I didn't understand this either.  [Rick] could have used it a lot more strategically.  Find someone he feels comfortable with, probably Joe, and tell them.  Then that person is more invested in protecting Rick and getting him to the next round.  And he made a new alliance.  I don't get why Rick didn't use this to get someone on his side to have them sway the vote away from Rick.  Dumb.

Ummm... let’s follow that proposed scenario through to its logical conclusion:

  1. Rick proffers Joe the half-idol and a deal: vote with Rick and David against Wentworth this TC, and they’ll make a pact - a F3 deal, maybe, or an F4 between Rick, David, Joe, and a Joe pick to be named later.
  2. Let’s say Joe agreed, and even pulls somebody else - Aurora, most likely, into the deal.
  3. Now we’re at TC, the foursome holds true, and Kelley gets 4 votes; unfortunately Joe still gets the 6 Kama votes.
  4. Joe goes out with the other half of Rick’s idol in his pocket.

Doesn’t sound all that strategically superior to me, to be honest.

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Truth is, Kama was going to drive that vote from the get-go, so Rick’s only strategically sound decision was to give the other idol half to someone who (a) Rick could trust and (b) wasn’t getting targeted by Kama - and trying to guess (b) was liable to be a crapshoot any way you take it, so emphasizing (a) wasn’t necessarily a bad strategic take.

Edited by Nashville · Reason: Typo
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15 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I thought it was so funny that Lauren was SO pissed off about losing the IC at the last second and that she could barely even muster the tiniest of smiles to hug Julie/a and then went right back to being pissed off again.

Yes, her "pissed, congratulations!, pissed" look would make a good gif.

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It's annoying that we haven't seen who the leader of the Kama6 is, although Julie seemed to be pulling ahead this episode. Because the vote was actually extremely well-planned! I kept counting to make sure but, yes, the Kama6 got their way in a group of THIRTEEN people. By making the side plans with David/Rick, Wentworth/Lauren/Wardog, and Joe/Aurora, it ensured that those seven didn't realize what was happening and team up to vote out one of the Kama6. I think somebody (again, Julie?) figured out that D/R or W/L/W might go running to Joe if they learned he was the real target, so by setting up TWO fake targets (Rick and Wentworth, and then even further splitting the Rick vote with the back-up David option) it allowed the group of six to be the biggest voting block. It's not quite Cirie levels of strategy, but pretty darn close!

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2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

... ...there's a Ron? 

... ...there's an Eric?!

... ...there's an Aurora?!!

This twist has not allowed us to settle in and get to know the players. Thus, it is hard to care. 

I only found out last night that the person I thought was Aurora is actually Julie.  Or Julia.  And there's a dark-haired guy who is usually seen talking to Gavin and I can't even recall his name at all.

26 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Who is the leader of the "Kama 6"?  Please don't say it's Ron.  I think Ron probably thinks it is Ron.  Victoria probably thinks it is Victoria.

Could be Ron, Victoria, Gavin, the dark-haired guy whose name I don't know....the problem with EOE is that I still don't have a grasp on who any of the main players are that are still in the game.  Instead, we are treated to Reem's hate-o-meter going up to eleven, 147 confessionals from Aubrey, and Keith taking half a day deciding on whether to stand up or sit down.  

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7 minutes ago, jhummerbird said:

It's annoying that we haven't seen who the leader of the Kama6 is, although Julie seemed to be pulling ahead this episode.

Frankly, I don’t think there is a formal leader of the group at present; Ron likes to style himself as one in his THs, but it appeared to me that both Victoria and Julie were driving the group conversations more than Ron.  Right now I think they’re still mainly operating on a consensus basis.

Edited by Nashville · Reason: Typo
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Contestants from a dominant tribe are often unpleasant. First, we didn't see much of them, so we're not invested in them. Second, by winning a lot, they get complacent, and that makes them unlikeable.

It's even worse when it feels like one or two people seem to have carried the tribe. Here, Joe voluntarily decided he would be the Cinderella of the tribe, do all the hard work, provide all the comfort, expect no regards (i.e. not try to work out any firm alliance). We've seen this dynamic before. Koror springs to mind, with Tom and Ian not only ensuring challenge wins but also making tribe life much easier (though in that case Tom did leverage some regards).

So, of course we don't like them. They're smug because they've not really earned the right to gloat so far. They've been cynically exploiting labour, even tough it was voluntary labour. I know the episode when they splinter and/or are idol blinded will be most satifying. And with this edit, we know it's coming. 

This season is like fake Survivor, though. Look at it casually for a couple of minutes and it looks legit. Look longer and it's clearly not the real thing. The weirdest thing though is that the brand itself is manufacturing the fake...

(When I was a kid, I used to make new rules for Monopoly, like we all start with no money and see if we make it. That helped make a game end quicker, usually. So I understand changing the way a game is played. But then you call it something else, like Fast Monopoly. I could entertain the idea of a slow Survivor, when no one is ever out until they say they're out, but that should be Slow Survivor, the one that can last many years, not something that replaces what we expect of Survivor.) 

The one positive I see in this fake Survivor is that those voted out people who lived through the challenge and decided to stuck it out seem to have a strong instant connection, which may well last, as they will build on an us-against-the-rest-of-them spirit, with no mind games (which must be a huge plus), and will now be super well fed with both Joe and Chris eager to be nurturer.

I don't mind Reem at all and I even like her. What she said to Jeff resonates a lot with me. There was a time when Survivor used to be for me the time when I would let the phone ring and that I watched with people who were as much into it as I was, good seasons or bad. She's like a throwback in a way, someone who could have been watching with us before I was the only one left who still watches the show.

Also, I don't like how the voted off players (or those that don't win the challenge to be back in) are forced to choose between staying in or basically quitting. Someone like Reem, who used to watch with her kids, probably won't want to be seen as a quitter, even if bailing out after a few weeks of that horrible island with a small chance of making it back in the game is not at all the same as quitting because you're tired, and hungry and not having fun, and your tribe mates won't vote you out.

17 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

What I find humorous about the Kama 6 and thinking they're good at the game, is that they've had luck on their side from the beginning.  They had Joe, which let them win, they remained intact thanks to one of the weirdest tribe swaps ever, and now they are at the merge (almost) intact.  Without Joe it probably would have been a little more even.  And it's not like Joe was totally blindsided tonight.  He openly said he knew where he stood.  

I hope the others band together and take the Kama's down a few pegs.  I don't know who I want out more from that group.  I think I might actually be rooting for Wardog, Wentworth, and Lauren after tonight!

Yes they don't realise how easy they had it! The cruel part of me want them to be hungry once the merge feast is gone, while Joe fishes abundantly on Extinguished-not Island.

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8 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Ummm... let’s follow that proposed scenario through to its logical conclusion:

  1. Rick proffers Joe the half-idol and a deal: vote with Rick and David against Wentworth this TC, and they’ll make a pact - a F3 deal, maybe, or an F4 between Rick, David, Joe, and a Joe pick to be named later.
  2. Let’s say Joe agreed, and even pulls somebody else - Aurora, most likely, into the deal.
  3. Now we’re at TC, the foursome holds true, and Kelley gets 4 votes; unfortunately Joe still gets the 6 Kama votes.
  4. Joe goes out with the other half of Rick’s idol in his pocket.

Doesn’t sound all that strategically superior to me, to be honest.

Why not Rick, David, Joe, Aurora, and the three Lesu losers?  Seven votes against the Kama 6.  I'm not sure exactly when David got on the outs with the Kelley, Lauren and Dan.  I know during the Rick vote, he and Rick voted for Lauren while the other three voted for Rick.  But then during the combined split tribe tribal, David voted with the three against Wendy.  Now that they are merged, why wouldn't he have approached Kelley to work together to try and make something happen against Kama?  Or vice versa?  With Rick back, they had five votes.  There were ostensibly 8 Kama but I think it would have been not too difficult to peel Joe away from them.  He knew from the "I'm just obviously standing here looking for clams right next to you while you talk about voting me out" conversation that they viewed him as a threat.

I don't think we even really saw why the Lesu Losers wanted David out, did we?  If we did, I wasn't paying attention.

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5 hours ago, Nashville said:

S

Personally I thought this was one of the best things which could have happened to Joe; he’s now in an eviction-free zone where he can coast all the way into F4 (or whenever EoE’s last re-entry shot is) and win his way back in without having to play any of the strategic or social facets of the game, which are the parts he really sucks at.

Only thing Joe was missing was the eyeliner.  😄

This would work but it seems like a big risk with a Chris around.  

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Well I was rooting for Rick but didn't think he'd pull it off...... yet there he was.  I'm sure the extra knots advantage helped but  IDK I just like the guy, maybe he won't get much further but of the players and the people on EI he was the one I hoped would keep going.

Reem please shut up - you're annoying anyway but just because you're on the jury doesn't mean you have standing to editorialize about the votes at tribal.  You haven't been in the game for about two weeks and know nothing about what's going on with the tribes except what the latest vote off tells you.  There could be alliances and idols you know nothing about and that the person voted off last doesn't know about either so please just sit there and shut up.

Anyone know how the Survivor pay scale works now?  Because in the past the scale was first person off gets about $3,500 - $4,000 but jury members can get in the tens of thousands range.  Reem was first voted off but she's still in the game so it seems like she'd get more than just 1st vote pay for that.  , Keith and Wendy left so would that maybe put Keith in the first voted off place and Wendy in second voted off place? Just wondering if the order of pay changes based on when the person actually leaves the game or enters the jury or if they completely changed the pay scale because the extinction island twist completely screws with the traditional first off to last person standing order.

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2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Why not Rick, David, Joe, Aurora, and the three Lesu losers?  Seven votes against the Kama 6. 

Hmm... under such circumstances I think you’d have to loop both Rick and David (both formerly Lesu) with the “Lesu Losers” (Kelley, Lauren and Dan) - which means the plan would depend upon two Kamas (Joe and Aurora) defecting from a strong post-merge 8 (Kama) to a weak post-merge 4 (Lesu), and being content with most likely being the bottom 2 in that 6-person arrangement.  Given both Joe’s and Aurora’s ignorance of the Kama 6 “blindside Joe” plan, it’s doubtful either Joe or Aurora would’ve seen that as an exceptionally tempting offer; both were under the impression “Kama Strong” would rule the vote.

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm not sure exactly when David got on the outs with the Kelley, Lauren and Dan.

When Kelley, Lauren and Dan voted out David’s best ally, Rick.

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

  I don't think we even really saw why the Lesu Losers wanted David out, did we?  If we did, I wasn't paying attention.

Because Kelley, Lauren and Dan expected David to want retribution for voting out David’s best ally, Rick.  Trust broken is a dangerous thing.  🙂

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6 hours ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

I really like Joe but what was he thinking?  Maybe it was editing but his random cloth painting while people were plotting his departure?  Pure laziness.  Or arrogance.  Actually both.

The wily chickens are the best part of this stupid season.

I think Joe was painting the new flag for the merged tribe.

The chickens for the win!

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22 minutes ago, marys1000 said:

This would work but it seems like a big risk with a Chris around.  

Probably - but then again, I doubt this was the outcome Joe was necessarily shooting for....  🙂

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23 minutes ago, Nashville said:

When Kelley, Lauren and Dan voted out David’s best ally, Rick.

Because Kelley, Lauren and Dan expected David to want retribution for voting out David’s best ally, Rick.  Trust broken is a dangerous thing.  🙂

I can understand them being mad at Wardog, because he's the one who was the deciding vote.  But David has been gunning for Wentworth from the start (though from what she said on her twitter she didn't know that until watching).  Kelley/Lauren were a tight pair just like David/Rick.  I get why those two are bitter, but at the same time, given the circumstances where Rick went, I can't really put the blame on Wentworth/Lauren.  Wardog, yes.  And, I can also understand why those 3 would be nervous that Rick was coming for them, because he clearly was.

I'm with those rooting for the chickens to win.  I didn't even realize they merged at Manu beach.  Was whoever edited this season drunk when they did it?  I'm more confused what's going on each week.

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16 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I know everyone jokes about the purple edit but Aurora is really getting the Angela/Chelsea edit from Ghost Island. It’s always someone. At the beginning it was her and Julia but now Aurora alone. Her only ally was Noe and now he’s gone. I guess she could be next or one of the two six packs could pull her in next week. Hopefully, they know her name.

Lol, just to further prove your point, I read this typo and went "there was a Noe and he was voted out?? Did I miss an episode?" In this season full of people I have barely seen, it seemed entirely plausible that there was yet another person I didn't remember. Ron was news to me, l swear this is the first I've noticed his existence. And I'd heard tell of this "Aurora" but this week was the first I'd been able to connect the name to any face. 

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I don't blame Keith or Wendy for quitting. They realized barring the others quitting/dying of malnutrition they were never going to win their way back in.

Wendy was actually decent at challenges so I was slightly surprised at her decision, but Keith was dead in the water. He's better off at Loser Lodge. And now that Joe's a contender in the next EOE challenge, there's a solid chance that all of them are wasting their time out there. He's terrible at Survivor, but damn good at challenges. I can see him returning to the game and promptly getting voted back out again if that particular immunity challenge is one of the few that doesn't favor him.

I had a glimmer of a thought that he threw the immunity challenge in this episode. He didn't appear to be wobbly and I could see his train of thought as thinking maybe it was early enough/enough people were left, and maybe with an easy scapegoat like the returning Rick, maybe losing a challenge would dent the image of challenge beast. Didn't work, but it seemed possible.

I was glad David didn't go, but I would have been okay with Wentworth going. Much as I'll always love the Savage blindside and her role in it, I'm not sure I think she's all that good of a player. She's always playing from the bottom and there must be some reason for that. And she's been a bit of a Debbie Downer from the start this season, it's not much fun to watch.

On the other hand, I'm kind of rooting for her partner in crime, Lauren, to stick around. She's got a very transparent way about her that I find amusing, her thoughts seem to be written all over all her face. 

I'm hoping that I'll get more invested in people now that they've merged and they don't have to jump around to different camps to see everyone. 

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The other thing that bugged me was Keith giving the disadvantage to Chris. From a game play situation, it made perfect sense. Good move. However, it came across (editing?) as just another part of the Reem/Keith hatred of Chris thing that made no sense. So, if Keith did it because Chris was likely to win--good move. If it was out of bitterness, than what an idiot. At least now, it seems like Reem is past the bitterness stage with Chris. The game involves voting people off. Deal with it.

I didn't see it having anything to do with hating Chris. Chris was the most athletic one in the bunch by a mile AND he'd gotten an advantage to help him through 1 stage of the competition. It's a no-brainer to saddle him with the extra task, he was the biggest threat by far.

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39 minutes ago, jhummerbird said:

It's annoying that we haven't seen who the leader of the Kama6 is, although Julie seemed to be pulling ahead this episode. Because the vote was actually extremely well-planned! I kept counting to make sure but, yes, the Kama6 got their way in a group of THIRTEEN people. By making the side plans with David/Rick, Wentworth/Lauren/Wardog, and Joe/Aurora, it ensured that those seven didn't realize what was happening and team up to vote out one of the Kama6. I think somebody (again, Julie?) figured out that D/R or W/L/W might go running to Joe if they learned he was the real target, so by setting up TWO fake targets (Rick and Wentworth, and then even further splitting the Rick vote with the back-up David option) it allowed the group of six to be the biggest voting block. It's not quite Cirie levels of strategy, but pretty darn close!

I'm not sure the Kama 6 really has a leader.  The seem to make decisions by bouncing around ideas and coming to a consensus.   

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I've tried.

Really I have.

But this season just ain't workin' for me.

Where's the dramatic tension if NO ONE EVER LEAVES??

There is none.

They should just put a revolving door at the tribal council exit. Because that's all it is.

And the editing -- which finally started to improve last season -- may be the worst it's ever been. After 500,000 weeks (I may have that slightly wrong) someone finally leaves EoE Island and they treat it like a footnote? I thought it was supposed to be a big deal? 

And as Mrs. Gummo (and so many of you, too) said last night:  There's an Aurora??

And Julie annoyed the crap out of me with her self-righteous high dudgeon at the idea of voting Ron out again -- she said they would be voting him right back to Extinction. NO, YOU IDIOT, HE GETS A CHOICE. (Voting people directly to Extinction without a choice would be a very different game, strategically and ethically.) So I found her misplaced 'moral high ground' obnoxious. Anyone voted out can leave at any time. (And I wish they would. I really, really do.)

Of course I'll finish out the season (I'm rather addicted that way, as long as there's no Hantz in the vicinity), but geez, what a disappointment this season is turning out to be.

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17 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Hmm... under such circumstances I think you’d have to loop both Rick and David (both formerly Lesu) with the “Lesu Losers” (Kelley, Lauren and Dan) - which means the plan would depend upon two Kamas (Joe and Aurora) defecting from a strong post-merge 8 (Kama) to a weak post-merge 4 (Lesu), and being content with most likely being the bottom 2 in that 6-person arrangement.  Given both Joe’s and Aurora’s ignorance of the Kama 6 “blindside Joe” plan, it’s doubtful either Joe or Aurora would’ve seen that as an exceptionally tempting offer; both were under the impression “Kama Strong” would rule the vote.

When Kelley, Lauren and Dan voted out David’s best ally, Rick.

Because Kelley, Lauren and Dan expected David to want retribution for voting out David’s best ally, Rick.  Trust broken is a dangerous thing.  🙂

I think the bad blood and mistrust between Wentworth/Lauren and Rick/David is silly and counterproductive.  It's not like they blindsided Rick at the first opportunity.  Lesu was down to 5 and they had to vote out someone.  The Warthog was really the swing vote between the two pairs.  Of course the geniuses never thought to just vote out The Warthog.  

Wentworth and David should be working together and should have been from the start.   

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58 minutes ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Reem please shut up - you're annoying anyway but just because you're on the jury doesn't mean you have standing to editorialize about the votes at tribal.  You haven't been in the game for about two weeks and know nothing about what's going on with the tribes except what the latest vote off tells you.  There could be alliances and idols you know nothing about and that the person voted off last doesn't know about either so please just sit there and shut up.

This is all so true. Just when I was starting to admire her grit,  now I hate her again.

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2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Respectfully disagree; the risk inherent in that plan far outweighs the potential benefit.  Far too easy for whoever Rick approached to say “Suuurrrre” to whatever plan Rick proposed - then run back to their core alliance, show them the half-idol and explain it, and say, “Hey guys - Rick is going to have an immunity idol tomorrow unless we vote him out RIGHT NOW....”

That's certainly a possibility, but I think it's more likely that the person keeps his or her mouth shut because if they rat out Rick, then they're screwing themselves out of the potential use of the idol at a later date. This is especially true since it seems the other person isn't required to return their half to Rick. I wasn't really paying attention when he read the note, but I went back and watched that scene and the note only says that he must give half away. It does not say that he gets that half back after the vote. Rick and whoever he gives it to are then in something of a standoff; they each have a strong incentive not to vote the other off because then there goes your idol. If I'm, say, Julie, and I know that I'm not at the top of the Kama 6 (I have no idea what the pecking order is, I'm just using her as an example), then being in a secret alliance with Rick (and therefore Dave) with an idol that can be used to save either of them is a good option to have. Of course he'd be taking a risk, but he's at the bottom and he already knows his name is being floated for the boot at that very TC; that's exactly the time to make a risky move.

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2 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I read the link to the Wendy interview where she claims she didn't quit. The only thing worse than a quitter may just be someone who quits but claimed they didn't.

I agree with Wendy. As Edge of Extinction is set up, Wendy did not quit, per se.

It helps for me to think of this season sort of like the show LOST. Fire represents life in the game. When your torch is snuffed, you die. Then this season, you come to a choice. You can either move on (to heaven, wherever) or go to Edge of Extinction, which is purgatory, with the chance to "come back to life." (not exactly a difficult metaphor, and one that was probably intentional by the show)

But ... if you choose to leave Edge of Extinction, you are ipso facto moving on. You are not quitting, since you're already dead (in the game). You're giving up your chance at coming back to life, but you can't be quitting life, because you're already dead.

Which also means, to me, if anyone chooses to end their adventure/"move on" from the game, they aren't quitting either. Their game has ended and they are moving on, like in every other season. Just because they choose not to go to purgatory doesn't mean they quit. It just means they've moved on from the game.

Wendy and Keith chose to move on. They chose to become like every other Survivor player who's been voted out. But according to the show's rules, they absolutely did not quit.

Edited by Eolivet
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 Personally I am of the opinion that a significant number of successful LOST parallels is a clear and definite indicator your show is shitter-bound – but hey, maybe that’s just me.   :]

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3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Victoria is playing a good game. I don't have too many issues with her. She had the one brain dead moment with Ron on the beach but outside of that, Victoria has been solid.

I still can't forgive the moment when, in discussing with the other women that the men were all off looking for idols, and 'what should we do?' her response was look after camp/do more gathering of wood or whatever they were in the process of doing, not yeeha go hunt idols ourselves.

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14 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

That's certainly a possibility, but I think it's more likely that the person keeps his or her mouth shut because if they rat out Rick, then they're screwing themselves out of the potential use of the idol at a later date. This is especially true since it seems the other person isn't required to return their half to Rick.

I don’t know if the show has yet clarified that; the idol was specifically given to Rick, after all, and the note does say it becomes functional if both halves survive the post-merge TC.  I’d suspect if Rick were to request return of the idol half now, an attempt to avoid surrendering might be considered and treated - the same as an attempt to steal another’s “found” idol; the possessor of the second half would be gently counseled (off-camera) to return the half to Rick.  

But even if this is not the case, it makes an even stronger argument for Rick to place the second half with whoever he trusts the most - and that would be David.

Please note I’m not saying a strategic proffer to somebody other than David is an automatically “wrong” idea; I think the two options are actually pretty even, but IMHO the trust factor is the outweighing concern.

Another consideration, from the point of view of the non-David person to whom Rick might make such an offer: what would be best for their game?  Say Rick made his offer to a member - any member - of the Kama 6; what would benefit their game?  Forging a new relationship with one person (Rick) - or strengthening already-established bonds of trust with five others, by exposing Rick’s gamble?

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6 hours ago, laurakaye said:
17 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I’d give anything for a season with no idols, no dramatic music, no funky twists. Just sit them all out there with a bag of rice and one chicken.

THIS.  Except skip the chicken.  I am hoping against hope that Season 40 blows our minds with bringing back a simple, straightforward game with less random twists.  I don't even need immunity idols!

It's been so long since we've had a season like that, I don't think we'll ever get another one. In fact, I think the 'average' viewer would be bored by a season like that.

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32 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

I agree with Wendy. As Edge of Extinction is set up, Wendy did not quit, per se.

It helps for me to think of this season sort of like the show LOST. Fire represents life in the game. When your torch is snuffed, you die. Then this season, you come to a choice. You can either move on (to heaven, wherever) or go to Edge of Extinction, which is purgatory, with the chance to "come back to life." (not exactly a difficult metaphor, and one that was probably intentional by the show)

But ... if you choose to leave Edge of Extinction, you are ipso facto moving on. You are not quitting, since you're already dead (in the game). You're giving up your chance at coming back to life, but you can't be quitting life, because you're already dead.

Which also means, to me, if anyone chooses to end their adventure/"move on" from the game, they aren't quitting either. Their game has ended and they are moving on, like in every other season. Just because they choose not to go to purgatory doesn't mean they quit. It just means they've moved on from the game.

Wendy and Keith chose to move on. They chose to become like every other Survivor player who's been voted out. But according to the show's rules, they absolutely did not quit.

I dunno... I think that's semantics.  They had a chance to stay on EoE and compete for a chance to rejoin the game.  On top of that, even if they don't get back in the game, they would be on the jury.  Wendy and Keith gave up that chance.  So I would say that yes, they did quit.  In terms of "the show's rules", I would submit that the rules change all the time, especially in the context of the fact that this is a new twist that hasn't been done before.  It seems to me that it has been made clear that once they get voted out of the game proper, their game isn't over.  They just move to a different phase of the game called EoE, where there will be chances to rejoin the game.  One chance was last night, and Jeff specifically said there would be another chance.  So at least two chances.

Wendy and Keith chose to quit the second phase of the game.

Here is the wording of the instructions near the mast:

This is the Edge of Extinction. You will have to work hard for everything. When fear or loneliness sets in you must find the resolve to overcome. If at any point you wish to end your adventure, raise the sail and a boat will pick you up.

Sounds to me like Wendy and Keith voluntarily chose to end their adventure, so they decided to raise the sail and leave the game and the adventure.  They gave up their chance to rejoin the game because they chose to leave the second phase of the game.  That to me is a "quit" in my book.

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38 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

I agree with Wendy. As Edge of Extinction is set up, Wendy did not quit, per se.

It helps for me to think of this season sort of like the show LOST. Fire represents life in the game. When your torch is snuffed, you die. Then this season, you come to a choice. You can either move on (to heaven, wherever) or go to Edge of Extinction, which is purgatory, with the chance to "come back to life." (not exactly a difficult metaphor, and one that was probably intentional by the show)

But ... if you choose to leave Edge of Extinction, you are ipso facto moving on. You are not quitting, since you're already dead (in the game). You're giving up your chance at coming back to life, but you can't be quitting life, because you're already dead.

Which also means, to me, if anyone chooses to end their adventure/"move on" from the game, they aren't quitting either. Their game has ended and they are moving on, like in every other season. Just because they choose not to go to purgatory doesn't mean they quit. It just means they've moved on from the game.

Wendy and Keith chose to move on. They chose to become like every other Survivor player who's been voted out. But according to the show's rules, they absolutely did not quit.

This is largely semantics, but, IMO, if you make the decision to leave the game, you quit.  Keith and Wendy are quitters. 

That said, I would not put them in the same class of players who quit while still a member of a tribe in the game.  The fact that production floated a choice this season, makes it less egregious to quit, or at least allows quitters to save face a little.    

In this season, getting your torch snuffed didn't send you out of the game.  It sent you to a signpost where you could decide to quit or continue at EOE.  

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Sounds to me like Wendy and Keith voluntarily chose to end their adventure, so they decided to raise the sail and leave the game and the adventure.  They gave up their chance to rejoin the game because they chose to leave the second phase of the game.  That to me is a "quit" in my book.

Agreed - but a Production-sanctioned “quit” vs. an Osten-style walkout, and one which should be considered totally within the bounds of the game.

Edited by Nashville · Reason: Rewording
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3 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Sounds to me like Wendy and Keith voluntarily chose to end their adventure, so they decided to raise the sail and leave the game and the adventure.  They gave up their chance to rejoin the game because they chose to leave the second phase of the game.  That to me is a "quit" in my book.

True, but maybe they just realized, 'There's no chance of me returning anyway, and if I did, I'd have a huge cross on my back' so I'm outta here. Why put myself through more of that?' Ok, it's a quit, but sometimes a quit is justifiable. 

It's a far cry from Osten, who I still remember making the ridiculous statement 'I'm not quitting. I'm STOPPING.'

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I'm sorry, but Reem was right no matter what she knows or doesn't know about this game.  The Joe vote sucked.  It's not like Joe became a strategic mastermind overnight and suddenly Reem looks stupid for saying that.  Nah.  She's right.

5 minutes ago, mikewho said:

It's a far cry from Osten, who I still remember making the ridiculous statement 'I'm not quitting. I'm STOPPING.'

😂😂😂😂    I love talking about Osten

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4 minutes ago, mikewho said:

True, but maybe they just realized, 'There's no chance of me returning anyway, and if I did, I'd have a huge cross on my back' so I'm outta here. Why put myself through more of that?' Ok, it's a quit, but sometimes a quit is justifiable. 

It's a far cry from Osten, who I still remember making the ridiculous statement 'I'm not quitting. I'm STOPPING.'

[FYI - that was @blackwing‘s quote, not mine; don’t know why the editor stripped the quote info.  Time for another bug report.... ]

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7 minutes ago, mikewho said:

True, but maybe they just realized, 'There's no chance of me returning anyway, and if I did, I'd have a huge cross on my back' so I'm outta here. Why put myself through more of that?' Ok, it's a quit, but sometimes a quit is justifiable. 

It's a far cry from Osten, who I still remember making the ridiculous statement 'I'm not quitting. I'm STOPPING.'

I agree that it's not the same as Osten or Purple Kelley or Naonka or that dreadlocked hairdresser from the Beauty Brawn Brains season that had rage issues and scrawled "I quit" in the sand and left overnight.

However, the argument from Wendy and reiterated above by EOlivet is that she "didn't quit".  She still voluntarily chose to leave the game, so in my book, she quit.

I disagree that she had no chance of returning.  She nearly won the competition.  She even says in the EW article that she would have gotten back in with Kama if she had made it.  I think she could have gone far.  There would have been much bigger targets on a merged tribe that kooky Wendy.  She seems to be trying to justify her decision to quit by rationalising that she didn't quit.  I bet she regrets it.  I think even EW is having fun with her by titling the article as "Wendy says she didn't quit".  She claims she didn't quit.  Then a question or two later the writer asks her another question about who she was rooting for after she decided to quit.  Haha.

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Keith said in an interview that Production had not told them they were going to be on the Jury if they stayed. So they quit not knowing that element. 

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4 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Keith said in an interview that Production had not told them they were going to be on the Jury if they stayed. So they quit not knowing that element. 

 Given the lack of information I’m not faulting them for quitting, but hey - you skip out, you miss out. 

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18 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

This is largely semantics, but, IMO, if you make the decision to leave the game, you quit. 

Agree to disagree, but I don't see it that way. Your torch is snuffed. You have been voted out. They don't make everyone go to Edge of Extinction, you have a choice. An equal choice, it's not even like the Edge of Extinction is in big neon letters and the "if you go here, your adventure will end" is a tiny sign. If everyone had to go to Edge of Extinction, and you could raise your sail if you wanted to leave, then yes -- you quit.

Contrast Edge of Extinction to Redemption Island. If someone said "I don't want to go to Redemption Island," that would be quitting, because when you were voted out, you went to Redemption Island. It was mandatory. You had no choice.

By that definition, people who choose not to go to Edge of Extinction are quitters, and I don't believe that, because Edge of Extinction is a choice. Leaving Edge of Extinction is making a different choice -- the choice you were offered originally. But it's not quitting.

If Probst wants to spin people who leave Edge of Extinction as quitting, then make it mandatory -- like Redemption Island. But as long as you have a choice, I don't believe opting for the other choice is quitting.

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I find myself unable to sort out what happened with the vote last night.  Who initially banded with who, who was each group planning to vote out, what changed, who ended up voting for who.  Can some kindly soul spell it out so us strategy-challenged folk can understand?  Thanks!

Re the chickens:  Have a challenge with the chicken tribe against the merged tribe.  The chicken tribe has already won one round, it shouldn't be too hard for them to keep on winning.

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Well, like most of you I am confused about the jury,    Because if they have started the jury, then the 2 who left are going to be the only ones who are not on it?      Or are they going to send home the ones who don't make it back in the game, after their next  challenge.  And when will that be?  

I guess they are trying to keep it interesting and keep us guessing but I am getting annoyed with this.  I feel like I'm playing a game with that kid who makes up the rules as we play.  

I don't mind twists in the game, but these twists with no explanation, really gives me the feeling that they are just making it up as they go.  

Well, it's not the first time I've had a complaint or been annoyed by this show, but I'll keep watching as long as they keep making it!    

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